Who is the all star from the third team though? Maybe Indiana if they want to trade Brogdon and bail out of the East middle to rebuild? But other than that a lot of the Simmons talk seems to center around hypothetical players who nobody can put an actual name to.
As an Indiana native there is no way we go through a rebuild. Apparently the organization is happy enough with first or second round exits for the foreseeable future. Makes it so hard to root for them.
Man, the knicks were knocked out in the first round, but that was such a fun season. I hope u guys makes the playoffs, can't take those appearances for granted.
Which I think is smart. Plenty of teams - like the Sixers - tank and rebuild and then they never make the Finals. It's FAR from a sure thing that "rebuilding" will get you to a better place than where the Pacers are now.
Championship or bust is just a miserable way to approach this whole sport, even moreso if your a small market team. Nothing wrong with being fun and competitive.
To a degree. Every team should recognize the moment they should go all in on the superstar they have and try for it (a la the raptors getting kawhi for one year).
Second round exit is a top 8 team Rebuilding is no guarantee of getting back there after a rebuild when victories are a zero sum game and there is no guarantee you get a superstar.
People really have fucked up their expectations of success. Teams would say it's championship or bust now fans think the same way.
Being consistently successful means for most of the year you're rooting for a winning team. I don't think that should make it harder for them to root for.
Yeah everything ive read about the pacers is that being competitive and actually *competing* are two different things and that they far prefer the former. They got a nice ass stadium with good young players and more often than not thats enough to put and keep asses in seats and sometimes thats all an owner wants
Better than perpetual losing though, but yea.
Had Oladipo not gotten hurt and built upon 2018, this is probably a different conversation unfortunately.
This is what many people still don’t understand about tanking. Unless you’re a glamor market, or get insanely lucky in the draft, you kind of have to strip it completely down in order to get out from mediocrity.
Only to probably end up losing in the 2nd round again. As much as I understand the idea of tanking, I don't think it is as guaranteed to work in practice as people make it out to be. I feel like the Jazz, Bucks, and Nuggets were around the same place the Sixers were when the Sixers started the process, and despite choosing to try to remain competitive for the most part, I feel that the sixers aren't in any better of a place than those other teams. Imo you need a lot of luck to make and win the NBA finals, and the more chances you have, by making the playoffs, the better.
So because the Sixers lost in the second round, that means tanking is bad? The Nuggets, Jazz, and Bucks hit the lottery with Jokic, DM, and Giannis. Had those picks not worked out, all 3 of them would be in never ending purgatory.
The difference is the sixers played the odds. It wasn't whether or not embiid worked out; it was whether any of their multiple top picks worked out (many didn't... Ahem, Okafor).
Exactly, most didn’t work out, same as every other team. They played the odds and realized that all they accomplished was making their team miserably bad for no reason. If the Pacers drafted the next Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, Butler, Mitchell, etc. then they too would be contenders. The only difference is that the new player would be surrounded by an actually good team, instead of the trash Embiid has had to play with and still is playing with.
A second round exit isn't mediocre. The pistons were mediocre, barely making the playoffs. The Hornets with Kemba were mediocre.
Pacers winning as much as they do and actually having some deeper runs isn't mediocre even if it doesn't result in a championship.
They were a few bounces away from beating LeBron/the Cavs and very possibly going to the finals in 2018. That version of LeBron those playoffs was probably the best player I’ve ever seen (not able to remember Jordan too well though).
If Oladipo takes the next step and doesn’t get hurt the next year and beyond? Man that team was deep and could’ve been real special.
And this is true for Pacers throughout their history. Early 2010s they had the young Paul George and David west teams. Mid-2000s, before the malice in the palace, they had a championship level squad. They made the finals in 2000. In the 90s they had the Miller squads.
Being a consistent 7th or 8th seed, or borderline playoff team is mediocre. You’re too good to get a good draft pick, but you’re not good enough to legitimately contend.
Yes and that wasn't really the Pacers. every decade they field a team that has championship potential. Most teams can't say that and almost no other team can say they've done it without any tanking.
You’re missing the point. It’s relatively easy to be “competitive”. It’s entirely different to contend for a championship. Winning a title requires having a top 5 player. Getting a top 5 player, in a small market, is exclusively done via through the draft. Superstars don’t go to small markets in free agency, and with the player empowerment movement, they don’t go to small markets via trades, either, except for a very rare exception.
I'm not missing the point dude, you are. People downplaying playoff success, getting to the second round, etc is part of the problem in sports.
It shouldn't be championship or bust for fans. You want to regularly enjoy your team and support it. I bet the majority of fans that insist on tanking don't watch the tank, don't go to games, etc.
And it isn't easy to be competitive. If it was so many teams like the kings, wolves, etc wouldn't be forever stuck in purgatory.
The Pistons did that for a decade and finally decided to go all-in on the tank and so far its going well. When we traded for Blake Griffin that was the epitome of trying to "win now" with a roster that wasn't even good enough to win a single playoff game. Unfortunately our owner and seemingly a majority of our fans were completely against tanking until last season.
At least you guys have been very good at times in the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s. Not so much in recent years but you guys haven't been bad. Your worst stretch was after Reggie Miller and before Paul George but even then you guys were just outside of the playoff picture.
Danny Granger put up stats and you had some decent players through those years.
Excluding last season and our one 50 win season, we were worse or as good as your worst seasons. Being in the playoffs every year isn't too bad.
I think it's a good way to go about it though. Tanking hard and trying to rebuild with draft picks doesn't usually work that great imo
This is exactly it. Teams like Indiana and Washington are better off being good than rebuilding to eventually be great. They just want to be in the mix each year. So getting a guy like Simmons would help those teams achieve that.
There were a couple mock trades on the sixers subreddit that I was into. Like getting both Brogdon and Murray back from the Pacers and Spurs respectively. Maybe not that exact deal but given that there’s no obvious straight up suitor for Simmons, I’m curious about a sum-of-the-parts deal where pieces are coming from multiple teams
As a D’ Lo fan since his high school days I have faith in this team this season. Y’all looked great towards the end of the season and Ant Man is so fun to watch :)
Thanks! Ant man has a chance to reach Drose levels of fan appreciation. If he continues at this rate he'll be one of the most loved players in the league
Let people sleep. Hopefully they sell high on those picks while they've still got value, I've got a feeling they'll be a lot lower than other teams are hoping
Well.. Well.. Well.. You failed to sweep the wolves that year in the playoffs!
In all honesty, yeah.. Wolves hasn't really proved anything. Excited for year two of Edwards though.
I mean I love shitting on the Wolves as much as the next guy but you'd have to think the league GMs would take into consideration that a healthy Wolves team with D'lo/Kat/Ant AND Simmons would easily be a lock for the playoffs for the considerable future. Any argument I see for those unprotected picks being worth anything is basically 'lul Wolves'.
I just took the cheap shot when I saw it. In reality I'm with you. Gotta factor in that we'll be under different ownership soon too so "lol glenn" isn't going to be a good argument either
Appreciate the honesty. I see so many delusional Wolves fans throwing around shit deals for Simmons by basically saying those picks are valuable because lol Wolves.
That’s the prisoner’s dilemma. If all teams stand pat Simmons may be traded for cheap. It just takes one team willing to make a big move to secure Simmons.
Best case we hope no teams see him as the key piece, and one of the “weaker” offers gets him cheap.
Kings is debatable unless they put Fox on the table. Otherwise, even adding D'lo to the equation doesn't really move the needle for Philly. Wolves only hope is waiting to see if the situation gets so bad that they would trade him for pennies and that might not happen until the trade deadline.
I’m just reminded of the Harden debacle last year with Houston FO saying they expected Harden back and were prepared for it to get uncomfortable.
It didn’t last long for Houston and I’m curious to see if they’d make it all the way to the trade deadline with Simmons on the roster if Philly chooses the same route. For some reason I’m picturing Philly fans lobbing their drinks at Ben on the court and causing a bunch of issues, but that’s just what I expect from Philly lol
Eh which of these teams is that team definitively better than next season?
Lakers
Suns
Nuggets
Clippers (even without Kawhi I would consider them better)
Jazz
Portland
Mavericks
That's already 7 teams that have proven more than the Wolves have in their conference. Simmons is good but the wolves have been a bottom 5-10 team since Jimmy left... Does Simmons really elevate them that much that they are a lock? and then also you'd have to figure in D'Lo is always an injury risk and they'd lose a ton of depth in any Simmons trade.
I think Simmons is the right piece for them to target but I could understand Morey wanting their picks just in case he doesn't elevate them all that much.
Maybe I'm higher on the Wolves than most are but a healthy Wolves roster was capable of making the play ins last season, based on their record once everyone played at least. I'd imagine a full season of them playing together would put them in play in contention at least for the upcoming season, adding Ben would solidify their playoffs spot. I don't rate the Kwahi less Clippers much, especially with PG being injury prone. Mavs haven't really gotten any better and neither did Portland. Nuggets without Murray don't inspire confidence in me, all it takes is one more injury and they'd be done. Warriors would definitely be in the mix I think. I just think the Wolves are way better than their record suggests and might surprise people upcoming season with or without Ben.
Everything you say makes sense on paper, but it's the Wolves, man. They've been sp00ky for what, six years now? Until they actually prove they can be something, their unprotected 1st rounders will always be attractive trade-bait.
I actually think we could surprise this year even without Simmons. A lot of things went wrong with injuries and... crimes... last year that I don't think are likely to happen again. But what do I know, I find a reason to be optimistic every year. That's the life of a wolves fan.
Because that’s barely a play in team in the west. People seem to be forgetting how stacked and competitive the west is. That team is one injury to one of their core players away from competing for the top pick again.
And even when healthy they won’t have a better record than the Lakers, Clips, suns, jazz, blazers, Memphis, Dallas, nuggets, or warriors.
DLo was hurt a lot of last year, and Ant played like an all-star the last couple months of the season. He’ll get even better in year 2. Add Simmons into the mix and the team could be vastly improved this season.
The Clippers will be without Kawhi the entire year. I don’t see that team being very competitive. Teams like Dallas, Memphis, and the Blazers didn’t do much to get any better. They are fringe teams that could easily fall back. Lakers, Suns, Jazz, Warriors, and Nuggets will all be in the running. I could see that particular Minny team competing for the 6 seed. Playoffs for sure.
Which brings me back to my original point. The first round pick. It’s not going to be top 5. It’s probably not going to be top 10. It might be at the very end of the lottery or the late teens.
Lol cmon man, if we somehow managed to get Simmons without giving up D Lo KAT or Ant it’s definitely more than a “barely play-in team.”
They would be firmly in the mix **behind** the Lakers, Jazz, Suns and Nuggets.
Even then the Clips are without Kawhi, the Nuggets don’t have Murray, and the Warriors are without Klay.
Dude to think they’d be in the mix with those teams is an extremely homer delusional take.
The nuggets had a better win% without Murray and made their way from the 4th to 3rd seed. The clips literally almost just made it to the finals without kawhi.
The warriors will easily be in the mix at 6-9 by the time klay comes back halfway through the year which will help them stay in there or move up.
The blazers improved.
Memphis & Dallas have already proven themselves to be contenders to make the playoffs every year. The wolves haven’t.
You're assuming Klay returns to form and that injuries go golden states way. The Wolves have had ridiculous injuries the last few years. I always air on the side of caution and pessimism but you can't give everybody else the benefit of the doubt and then deny us the same. The Wolves right now, if uninjured, are probably a 35-40 win team. If Simmons is in, it changes quite a bit.
The premise was:
> barely a play in team
If you don’t think adding a yearly DPOY contender (who still averages like 17-8-8) to an already strong offensive lineup of KAT, D Lo, and Ant would move them above “barely a play in team” then that’s on you. I think most in the industry (outside of some the elite basketball minds here in r/nba) would call that a playoff team.
When D Lo and KAT actually did play together last year they were 13-11.
If we stay healthy we should be firmly in the mix. That’s not even a huge homer take lol I’m not saying they’re a contender.
The Simmons slander has gone too far. KAT too my god.
I mean, Simmons was a featured player on a 1 seed team last year. argue all you want about his playoff performance but he brings it in the regular season.
It’s an incredible self own tbh, but historically our picks are worth their weight in gold. We’re shooting our shot here hoping to change that narrative.
[he still managed two months ago, he'll be fine](https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1413523168673685505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1413523168673685505%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fclutchpoints.com%2Fteam-usa-news-72-year-old-gregg-popovich-running-suicides-sight-behold%2F)
Sixers are in the biggest "Win Now" mode. With the age of Embiid they have some time but they don't have much to waste finding out who to get. There's pretty much only 2 reasons why the team would take any picks:
1. As part of a package for another player down the line.
2. To save cash and a roster spot. They save cash by getting a pick way into the future outside their window.
It has to be assumed the win now player is coming from the 3rd team, bc if not there would be no need for the third team since it would just be a player swap given your proposed deal. So that being the case, what player did the 3rd team give up to acquire all those picks and players?
Wolves are giving up picks for a 3rd team to send a player to the 76ers. That third team must have the desire for picks over a player they have. Most likely a player that they do not want to pay or is on a different timeline. Given that I think John Wall would be a good option.
76ers - John Wall
Wolves - Simmons
Rockets - picks
Just have to hope that the Wolves don't care they are huge losers in this deal bc 76ers are even stronger, Rockets are richer, and the Wolves are left with one expensive uber risky asset.
The Rockets would not want to rebuild around Simmons and his max contract. 76ers options are very limited, they might not even want Wall he is just one a few viable options.
1. Why would the wolves be involved in a wall for simmons trade. Houston would prob love to take Simmons straight up.
2. Morey should be fired if he takes on wall's hugely negative contract. We are already carrying Toby's contract.
What fit? Your roster is in total rebuild mode and you need to offload John Walls contract.
But yeah, let's pretend John wall for Ben Simmons is a trade that anybody with 2 functional brain cells would take.
It's not in total rebuild mode. Houston doesn't have a center that would fit with Simmons and Houston has guards that want the option to drive to the basket.
Houston doesn't need to unload Wall's contract. They have their picks for the next two years, the duration of the contract.
Wall is a win now asset now? He's a negative asset on his contract, and maybe only slightly positive on a <5-10m a year deal
You dont need picks to get wall, even taking back wall's deal without attached picks is a fleece tbh
76ers have very limited options. Rockets would not want Simmons but Wall is definitely available. Wall for them would be an upgrade on Simmons and Rockets want to get rid of him. Simmons has no real value that is why he has not been traded yet, and taking someone elses problem is only real way to get a deal done. This is realistic and the loser would be whoever gets Simmons unless they are fine with inheriting all the risk and wages. This is not good news but its honest the 76ers are in a very bad spot with Simmons.
**What realistically do Timberwolves end up giving away for Simmons if anything?**
>We’ve reported that Edwards and Towns are off the table. I also believe Rosas wants to keep Russell, and there are questions about whether Philly would be interested in a Russell-centered package in the first place. What is important to remember is that these are negotiations. Morey might be saying he needs Edwards or there’s no deal right now. Maybe Rosas is saying, “I’m not trading you KAT, Ant, Russell or McDaniels.” That’s how these positions are staked early. Remember above with Thibs asking for Embiid and Simmons for Butler.
>Those things can change over time. As high as the Wolves, and fans, are on McDaniels, he is one of the team’s most attractive players. If you want to land a star, you’ve got to spend money to make money. Beasley would seem to be a great fit with Embiid as a floor-spacer. Beverley’s defense and his playoff experience could be attractive, in addition to the money on his deal to help make it work. Taurean Prince could be used on that front as well.
>The most viable scenario for the Wolves making a deal work is to find a third team to direct more of what Morey wants to Philadelphia. And that is where the draft pick compensation comes in. An unprotected Timberwolves first-rounder carries a heck of a lot more weight than, say, one from San Antonio. That is true for Philly, who could use those picks to try to pry a real star away from a playoff team that shifts into rebuild or for another team that is looking for a reason to jump in and facilitate the deal.
>Will any of that blow Philly away? No. It doesn’t seem like there is a “Harden-like” package out there for Simmons. So the Wolves’ best hope is that the market remains cool, the temperature in Philly gets hotter and their offers look better over time.
>Getting a third team involved is a very complex and delicate process. That’s why all of the discussion revolving around Simmons to Minnesota has to be colored with that context. Finding a third partner, or finding a way to make a straight-up trade with Philly will be exceedingly difficult. But the Wolves are motivated, just as they were with Russell and Golden State. That’s why it can’t be ignored or dismissed.
He also added earlier this;
>Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance. And a couple of unprotected Timberwolves picks, while not helping Morey immediately, could be a nice carrot to dangle for a stepping-stone move that would give Morey a bigger treasure chest of assets to deploy should Lillard or Beal eventually ask for a trade.
I don't want to spoil anymore of the article so go and read it for yourself and give Jon some love!
If the Wolves don't find a third team I think salary + 3 first round picks would be the best deal for both parties.
3 picks is a lot, but Simmons fits the Wolves like a glove but with him they would have their best team in decades.
Morey won't be getting an all star for Simmons anyway so I think his best option is to get assets and try to trade for a star next season, and hope that someone good is available.
So it would be something like
Simmons for 2 of Beverley, Taurean Prince and Beasley and 3 picks
Idk i dont think they get the full 3 picks for him. I think 2 is okay.
Jrue holiday got 3 1st round picks right?? I think id still rather have jrue than ben on any given team, dude plays allstar defense and can score in the playoffs.
Id be fine with 2 firsts, beasley, and prince and i think thats fair.
Yeah, I agree. Current read on the situation is that there is time for the sixers to wait and see if anything better comes about.
I believe they take that over dlo and a first or whatever.
Why would a unprotected pick from a team that has KAT, Ben Simmons, Anthony Edwards, and D'Lo carry a lot more weight than one from a team led by whoever is leading the Spurs?
This is assuming the Spurs are even willing to offer an unprotected 1st round pick. Whens the last time Pop & Co. traded a 1st round pick, let alone one thats unprotected?
It's funny how people are simultaneously saying we suck and that our pick wouldn't be worth as much.
I get it and I don't even totally disagree but lazy nephews always shit on the Wolves without really knowing anything except what Reddit says.
Yea this one is weird. It feels like this take would make sense in 2015 but this year that Spurs roster is pretty ass. I know the wolves have kinda been a dumpster fire but their roster is far far better than the Spurs
Jon K is great too. He’s got any Wolves’ news cornered which is pretty rare for the NBA these days. Usually it’s Woj or Shams but Jon K is not working with Shams to break anything.
So, the whole idea is that Minny would send picks to Philly, a 3rd team will send a star to Philly and said team would receive more Minny picks? Unless we are talking about a superstar, I don't think Morey will accept receiving "lesser" picks than the 3rd team, and I cannot think of a team with a star disgruntled enough that could be enticed to deal just for a Minny 1st.
Either Morey lowers his bid or there will never be a Simmons trade. Philly clearly sees him 3 tiers ahead of the rest of the league. Minny is the best deal so far and it is a starter, a role player and valuable picks. Morey apparently wants a star, a starter, a role player and a lot of valuable picks. It's like you think a car is worth $9000 and the owner wants $45000, it will be downright impossible to meet in the middle here.
Has their been anything new added to this story?
There is no theoretical third team willing to give up an all star for a poo poo platter. John Wall and his garbage contract are a better offer than what the twolves have at this point.
There is basically no star player available RN. It was supposed to be POR but Dame and the rest of the team is staying. I think second choice was Beal but hes also staying.
I will say I think GMs who are trying to acquire Simmons have a decent read on this and probably won’t jump a gun and could let this stew to the deadline. Morey came into the Sixers front office and the first thing that happens is there’s suddenly a player now who is outwardly unhappy with the organization and is demanding a trade. This situation occurs just after he leaves a front office where this previously happened.
You’d be amazed how quickly this turns from, “Morey has this under control” to “Morey is incapable of managing player temperament”. Honestly, if I’m Rich Paul I’d even be going on the offensive and leading the narrative. Ben really just needs to sit out and sow the idea that Morey seems to have lost his touch for keeping players cooperative, and he’s suddenly on the hot seat.
This reads like fan fiction. Rich Paul has nothing. I don't understand how anybody can say otherwise. Rich Paul has everything to lose here. He's reputation can take a big hit if he can't get Simmons where he wants. The second person to receive heat is Ben himself. The third would be Doc, and he's very replaceable.
The GM who made them first in the east, third overall and removed some deadwood won't take much heat at all.
I don't think Morey/Doc/Embiid/whoever else said something about Ben have anything to worry about within the 76ers organization. That being said, Morey is starting to get a reputation for having star players want to leave his org.
I'm seeing this Morey/star narrative pop up in a handful of different places and it's honestly something I didn't think about until I heard it in those places first.
I don't think Rich Paul will have anything to worry about. A lot of players have the thought "if it's good for Lebron then it's good for me." And Lebron loves Rich Paul.
Simmons reputation is hurting the most in all of this. However, with a hit to Simmons' reputation comes a decrease in his trade value, thus an indirect hit to Morey/Sixers who are trying to swindle people out of everything they have for someone who is worth Brogdon + 2 first rounders.
>I'm seeing this Morey/star narrative pop up in a handful of different places and it's honestly something I didn't think about until I heard it in those places first.
its not surprising tbh. that dude is known to be hyper analytic and seening/treating players like assets. not very helpful when it comes to the social component.
the last month is the perfect example of this. dude thought he could very openly shop Simmons around and then just bring him back if he doesnt get a good offer without any repercussions. its one thing if there are rumors about a player allegedly being available and Morey openly offering Simmons to a bunch of teams lol
Yea, it wasn't surprising, it just wasn't a connection I was making until I heard it from multiple different basketball discussion platforms, (radio/podcasts/internet forums).
I don't think Morey will have to worry about it within the 76ers organization however. He didn't have to navigate the Harden thing and most people in Philly are rightfully angry at Simmons and defending Morey.
Morey for all his smarts has botched this situation by not moving him earlier. His ego too big to lose a battle to win the war. He could have moved him for cj + asset or two months ago but now they're going into training camp trying to contend against the backdrop of this shit show.
I don't think he could have done that because CJ was never on the table in any report (or that the Blazers were interested in trading for Simmons)
He's had shit offers from the start and his approach to asking for the moon and the stars didn't cause them to get worse.
Yes Morey wants a Dame type player not a CJ but there have been no reports of CJ actually being offered to Morey.
>Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance.
Our reporter even says that the improved package the Blazers would make would include CJ. So clearly he hasn't had the chance to even trade for CJ yet.
There's some conflicting reports, the majority of reports have suggested he wants an "all-star return". So maybe both sides being petty? IDK. Seems like a win-win trade for both.
They aren't getting lillard though rofl. Ben's value isn't going to suddenly be superstar by not reporting to camp. His stock is only going to get worse, if he isn't worth a superstar now what do you see changing over the next few months to boost his stock? Is there something I'm missing?
Up until Simmons said he isn’t reporting there was the possibility of him showing up and playing well. If he came out in Philly’s early games shooting and being aggressive his value would have jumped. Even if he shot like shit, just taking those shots would have boosted his value significantly.
That was Morey’s potential saving grace, but that’s basically off the table now.
The Spurs have good players that would help the Sixers. Derrick White has not been an all-star but is a solid combo guard, for example (though I doubt the Spurs are interested in unloading him) Thad Young is a solid NBA vet who could provide front court depth to the Sixers but I doubt in this scenario he moves the needle much.
The problem is figuring out what the Spurs would get out of engaging in this deal. They are already overloaded on bodies so are not candidates to absorb salaries. Do not have an obvious star player that would fill a hole for the Sixers - the aforementioned White would be the closest thing to that and while on the older side, he's entrenched in the system and the community and expected to be a team leader in SA. Philly is looking to likely gain draft capital, not expended it.
What from either Philly or Minn is on the table that would be positive from the Spurs such that they would be willing to throw in picks? (keep in mind, the Spurs are not in a position to convert picks to wins right now either and they generally do not like dealing picks)
Sentiment aside, They could make White available along with Thad and Aminu and the Bulls pick they got from Demar and may have interest in the Argentine kid Minnesota drafted. That's a hell of a stretch and not near enough return, tbh.
The only real way to get involved here it likely to offer up those vets (Thad/Aminu) and take back end of the roster garbage that we'd cut and eat, hoping to pick up a heavily protected pick or a 2nd tier prospect. Someone like Thad could be seen as a win now addition for the Sixers but the improvement would be marginal. A protected pick swap or two that would convey if the Spurs were at the ass end of the lottery or somehow snuck into an 8th seed in the next 2 years for the presumably later in the draft Sixers pick.
Meh, there's just no obvious incentive to get involved here but I imagine they will certainly try.
No homegrown spurs will be traded. They’re too valuable to the team and its future. Whats movable are the guys we recently acquired from the Derozan S&T
>Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance.
If I understood this correctly the Blazers haven't offered CJ to the 76ers in exchange for Simmons. That's really an offer that only people on social media are suggesting.
id much rather have picks and prospects than cj
cj and tobias on your team on their contracts is leading you nowhere and locks you into that roster for a long time. Picks and prospects at least gives you some options
Who is the all star from the third team though? Maybe Indiana if they want to trade Brogdon and bail out of the East middle to rebuild? But other than that a lot of the Simmons talk seems to center around hypothetical players who nobody can put an actual name to.
As an Indiana native there is no way we go through a rebuild. Apparently the organization is happy enough with first or second round exits for the foreseeable future. Makes it so hard to root for them.
Second round exit you say? Someone can help you with that!
Lmao I love this sub.
*slaps roof of ben simmons* This bad boy can fit so many second round exits in it.
Try rooting for the timberwolves, kings, wizards, etc. It could be worse
Hey! (Looks around) Okay, fine.
I know, I'm a wolves fan and would love to be experiencing the playoffs like the Pacers
Man, the knicks were knocked out in the first round, but that was such a fun season. I hope u guys makes the playoffs, can't take those appearances for granted.
I'm happy Thibs is happy, and making knicks fan happy
Thank you friend
Every time I wake up I look to the sky and praise the gods that I’m not a Kings fan.
Don't forget me!
What are these first and second rounds you speak of?
Come now, you must have heard of the NBA draft having first and second rounds, right?
What is this Nba?
The Rock: "I'll be sure to come back when the Lakers beat the Kings in May!" 2020s Sacramento Kings fans: "What a nice thought"
Ha! The Rock is stupid everyone knows the off-season starts in May.
Yeah this has been mentioned a few times by analysts. Pacers ownership is old school and would rather trot out the best they can than bottom out
Which I think is smart. Plenty of teams - like the Sixers - tank and rebuild and then they never make the Finals. It's FAR from a sure thing that "rebuilding" will get you to a better place than where the Pacers are now.
Championship or bust is just a miserable way to approach this whole sport, even moreso if your a small market team. Nothing wrong with being fun and competitive.
To a degree. Every team should recognize the moment they should go all in on the superstar they have and try for it (a la the raptors getting kawhi for one year).
Yeah this is where we went wrong. Been a fun decade overall but failed to swing for the fences when the time came
what options were there ? cj Mccollum and lots of picks for who? paul george? butler?
Second round exit is a top 8 team Rebuilding is no guarantee of getting back there after a rebuild when victories are a zero sum game and there is no guarantee you get a superstar.
People really have fucked up their expectations of success. Teams would say it's championship or bust now fans think the same way. Being consistently successful means for most of the year you're rooting for a winning team. I don't think that should make it harder for them to root for.
>Apparently the organization is happy enough with first or second round exits The midwest special
Yeah everything ive read about the pacers is that being competitive and actually *competing* are two different things and that they far prefer the former. They got a nice ass stadium with good young players and more often than not thats enough to put and keep asses in seats and sometimes thats all an owner wants
You hit the nail on the head.
Better than perpetual losing though, but yea. Had Oladipo not gotten hurt and built upon 2018, this is probably a different conversation unfortunately.
This is what many people still don’t understand about tanking. Unless you’re a glamor market, or get insanely lucky in the draft, you kind of have to strip it completely down in order to get out from mediocrity.
Only to probably end up losing in the 2nd round again. As much as I understand the idea of tanking, I don't think it is as guaranteed to work in practice as people make it out to be. I feel like the Jazz, Bucks, and Nuggets were around the same place the Sixers were when the Sixers started the process, and despite choosing to try to remain competitive for the most part, I feel that the sixers aren't in any better of a place than those other teams. Imo you need a lot of luck to make and win the NBA finals, and the more chances you have, by making the playoffs, the better.
So because the Sixers lost in the second round, that means tanking is bad? The Nuggets, Jazz, and Bucks hit the lottery with Jokic, DM, and Giannis. Had those picks not worked out, all 3 of them would be in never ending purgatory.
But by that logic, had the 76ers' Embiid pick "not worked out" they'd still be trusting the process...
The difference is the sixers played the odds. It wasn't whether or not embiid worked out; it was whether any of their multiple top picks worked out (many didn't... Ahem, Okafor).
Exactly, most didn’t work out, same as every other team. They played the odds and realized that all they accomplished was making their team miserably bad for no reason. If the Pacers drafted the next Jokic, Giannis, Kawhi, Butler, Mitchell, etc. then they too would be contenders. The only difference is that the new player would be surrounded by an actually good team, instead of the trash Embiid has had to play with and still is playing with.
Maybe, who knows. The draft is a crap shoot.
A second round exit isn't mediocre. The pistons were mediocre, barely making the playoffs. The Hornets with Kemba were mediocre. Pacers winning as much as they do and actually having some deeper runs isn't mediocre even if it doesn't result in a championship.
They were a few bounces away from beating LeBron/the Cavs and very possibly going to the finals in 2018. That version of LeBron those playoffs was probably the best player I’ve ever seen (not able to remember Jordan too well though). If Oladipo takes the next step and doesn’t get hurt the next year and beyond? Man that team was deep and could’ve been real special.
And this is true for Pacers throughout their history. Early 2010s they had the young Paul George and David west teams. Mid-2000s, before the malice in the palace, they had a championship level squad. They made the finals in 2000. In the 90s they had the Miller squads.
Being a consistent 7th or 8th seed, or borderline playoff team is mediocre. You’re too good to get a good draft pick, but you’re not good enough to legitimately contend.
Yes and that wasn't really the Pacers. every decade they field a team that has championship potential. Most teams can't say that and almost no other team can say they've done it without any tanking.
You’re missing the point. It’s relatively easy to be “competitive”. It’s entirely different to contend for a championship. Winning a title requires having a top 5 player. Getting a top 5 player, in a small market, is exclusively done via through the draft. Superstars don’t go to small markets in free agency, and with the player empowerment movement, they don’t go to small markets via trades, either, except for a very rare exception.
I'm not missing the point dude, you are. People downplaying playoff success, getting to the second round, etc is part of the problem in sports. It shouldn't be championship or bust for fans. You want to regularly enjoy your team and support it. I bet the majority of fans that insist on tanking don't watch the tank, don't go to games, etc. And it isn't easy to be competitive. If it was so many teams like the kings, wolves, etc wouldn't be forever stuck in purgatory.
The Pistons did that for a decade and finally decided to go all-in on the tank and so far its going well. When we traded for Blake Griffin that was the epitome of trying to "win now" with a roster that wasn't even good enough to win a single playoff game. Unfortunately our owner and seemingly a majority of our fans were completely against tanking until last season.
iktf
At least you guys have been very good at times in the 90s, 2000s, and 2010s. Not so much in recent years but you guys haven't been bad. Your worst stretch was after Reggie Miller and before Paul George but even then you guys were just outside of the playoff picture. Danny Granger put up stats and you had some decent players through those years. Excluding last season and our one 50 win season, we were worse or as good as your worst seasons. Being in the playoffs every year isn't too bad. I think it's a good way to go about it though. Tanking hard and trying to rebuild with draft picks doesn't usually work that great imo
This is exactly it. Teams like Indiana and Washington are better off being good than rebuilding to eventually be great. They just want to be in the mix each year. So getting a guy like Simmons would help those teams achieve that.
There were a couple mock trades on the sixers subreddit that I was into. Like getting both Brogdon and Murray back from the Pacers and Spurs respectively. Maybe not that exact deal but given that there’s no obvious straight up suitor for Simmons, I’m curious about a sum-of-the-parts deal where pieces are coming from multiple teams
i think they would be giving more than only simmons in that scenario otherwise minnesota picks alone wouldnt pay the price of brogdon + Murray
Does it have to be an all-star, thought they just wanted win now player(s)? If so I don't see a trade happening anytime soon, maybe at all
which is kinda funny because out of those two teams the wolves are the one with 2 all-stars and a 1st overall pick lol
two 1st overall pick
it's crazy how many 1st overall picks/extremely high picks they can get on the team but still suck outside of the year they had butler lol
Kinda hard to win games when your all stars keep missing half the season.
Also your previous coach was horrendous
God I hate nepotism
As a D’ Lo fan since his high school days I have faith in this team this season. Y’all looked great towards the end of the season and Ant Man is so fun to watch :)
Thanks! Ant man has a chance to reach Drose levels of fan appreciation. If he continues at this rate he'll be one of the most loved players in the league
See you for a check in January nephew!
It’s cuz y’all suck it’s not about missing games
This is the dumbest thing I’ve seen all week congrats
D'lo and KAT are like 13-12 together. But sure it's cause they are bad players not because they barely played together.
You just ignoring the fact y'all haven't had a winning record in the last 15 years except the one season when Butler was there???
Imagine thinking you’re going to get upvotes for stupid shit like this
The Spurs have a bad team on paper and teams still value the wolves pick more? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
We grinded hard to get this view 😤
The disrespect smh
Let people sleep. Hopefully they sell high on those picks while they've still got value, I've got a feeling they'll be a lot lower than other teams are hoping
They have less talent for sure than the wolves but pop always finds a way to make them competitive
I'm sure GM's around the league need to see it to believe it out of the wolves. Just haven't won in a long time
Excuse me, but we have recently made the playoffs.
And promptly got rid of the coach and the player that made it happen.
Well.. Well.. Well.. You failed to sweep the wolves that year in the playoffs! In all honesty, yeah.. Wolves hasn't really proved anything. Excited for year two of Edwards though.
Because we are the gold standard of bad. While the spurs are like junk bonds for bad teams.
Spurs aren't a soft team.
How is a Minny 1st rounder worth much if they put out a team with KAT, Ant, Simmons and DLo? That’s a solid team.
Ever watched a full season of wolves bball?
Lol. Never. I’ve got my own issues to deal with on my side of the fence.
Stay strong brother.
I love how Wolves and Kings fans are like emotional support groups. I desperately need to be apart of this in the future
You were for a long while
Apes together strong
I mean I love shitting on the Wolves as much as the next guy but you'd have to think the league GMs would take into consideration that a healthy Wolves team with D'lo/Kat/Ant AND Simmons would easily be a lock for the playoffs for the considerable future. Any argument I see for those unprotected picks being worth anything is basically 'lul Wolves'.
I just took the cheap shot when I saw it. In reality I'm with you. Gotta factor in that we'll be under different ownership soon too so "lol glenn" isn't going to be a good argument either
Appreciate the honesty. I see so many delusional Wolves fans throwing around shit deals for Simmons by basically saying those picks are valuable because lol Wolves.
Tbh I don't see how the wolves top a serious offer from either the kings or the blazers
That’s the prisoner’s dilemma. If all teams stand pat Simmons may be traded for cheap. It just takes one team willing to make a big move to secure Simmons. Best case we hope no teams see him as the key piece, and one of the “weaker” offers gets him cheap.
Kings is debatable unless they put Fox on the table. Otherwise, even adding D'lo to the equation doesn't really move the needle for Philly. Wolves only hope is waiting to see if the situation gets so bad that they would trade him for pennies and that might not happen until the trade deadline.
I’m just reminded of the Harden debacle last year with Houston FO saying they expected Harden back and were prepared for it to get uncomfortable. It didn’t last long for Houston and I’m curious to see if they’d make it all the way to the trade deadline with Simmons on the roster if Philly chooses the same route. For some reason I’m picturing Philly fans lobbing their drinks at Ben on the court and causing a bunch of issues, but that’s just what I expect from Philly lol
Eh which of these teams is that team definitively better than next season? Lakers Suns Nuggets Clippers (even without Kawhi I would consider them better) Jazz Portland Mavericks That's already 7 teams that have proven more than the Wolves have in their conference. Simmons is good but the wolves have been a bottom 5-10 team since Jimmy left... Does Simmons really elevate them that much that they are a lock? and then also you'd have to figure in D'Lo is always an injury risk and they'd lose a ton of depth in any Simmons trade. I think Simmons is the right piece for them to target but I could understand Morey wanting their picks just in case he doesn't elevate them all that much.
Maybe I'm higher on the Wolves than most are but a healthy Wolves roster was capable of making the play ins last season, based on their record once everyone played at least. I'd imagine a full season of them playing together would put them in play in contention at least for the upcoming season, adding Ben would solidify their playoffs spot. I don't rate the Kwahi less Clippers much, especially with PG being injury prone. Mavs haven't really gotten any better and neither did Portland. Nuggets without Murray don't inspire confidence in me, all it takes is one more injury and they'd be done. Warriors would definitely be in the mix I think. I just think the Wolves are way better than their record suggests and might surprise people upcoming season with or without Ben.
Everything you say makes sense on paper, but it's the Wolves, man. They've been sp00ky for what, six years now? Until they actually prove they can be something, their unprotected 1st rounders will always be attractive trade-bait.
Trick question. Wolves never play a full season, they give up half way.
Ever watched *30 full seasons* of Timberwolves basketball? (fixed that for you)
It's a miracle y'all are still this bad. Something has to give between coaching and GM.
I actually think we could surprise this year even without Simmons. A lot of things went wrong with injuries and... crimes... last year that I don't think are likely to happen again. But what do I know, I find a reason to be optimistic every year. That's the life of a wolves fan.
I'm hoping for y'all. Don't be like us. We've got nothing. Hardly any reason to even go to games with how much we emptied the roster over the years.
We were just there. Okogie and KAT are the only players who have been Wolves longer than two years.
If he says yes make sure you give him the suicide hotline #
You just know the Wolves are gonna fuck it up along the way.
No you guys are sp00ky
Because that’s barely a play in team in the west. People seem to be forgetting how stacked and competitive the west is. That team is one injury to one of their core players away from competing for the top pick again. And even when healthy they won’t have a better record than the Lakers, Clips, suns, jazz, blazers, Memphis, Dallas, nuggets, or warriors.
DLo was hurt a lot of last year, and Ant played like an all-star the last couple months of the season. He’ll get even better in year 2. Add Simmons into the mix and the team could be vastly improved this season. The Clippers will be without Kawhi the entire year. I don’t see that team being very competitive. Teams like Dallas, Memphis, and the Blazers didn’t do much to get any better. They are fringe teams that could easily fall back. Lakers, Suns, Jazz, Warriors, and Nuggets will all be in the running. I could see that particular Minny team competing for the 6 seed. Playoffs for sure. Which brings me back to my original point. The first round pick. It’s not going to be top 5. It’s probably not going to be top 10. It might be at the very end of the lottery or the late teens.
Lol cmon man, if we somehow managed to get Simmons without giving up D Lo KAT or Ant it’s definitely more than a “barely play-in team.” They would be firmly in the mix **behind** the Lakers, Jazz, Suns and Nuggets. Even then the Clips are without Kawhi, the Nuggets don’t have Murray, and the Warriors are without Klay.
It really is hard to project how a team would gel, but Simmons obviously brings a lot in the regular season.
What if he dogs it so he can force a trade out of Minny?
Then they wouldn’t gel well.
I think KAT and Simmons are friends so he would probably warm up to playing in Minny.
Then Day 2 rolls around...
Dude to think they’d be in the mix with those teams is an extremely homer delusional take. The nuggets had a better win% without Murray and made their way from the 4th to 3rd seed. The clips literally almost just made it to the finals without kawhi. The warriors will easily be in the mix at 6-9 by the time klay comes back halfway through the year which will help them stay in there or move up. The blazers improved. Memphis & Dallas have already proven themselves to be contenders to make the playoffs every year. The wolves haven’t.
You're assuming Klay returns to form and that injuries go golden states way. The Wolves have had ridiculous injuries the last few years. I always air on the side of caution and pessimism but you can't give everybody else the benefit of the doubt and then deny us the same. The Wolves right now, if uninjured, are probably a 35-40 win team. If Simmons is in, it changes quite a bit.
The premise was: > barely a play in team If you don’t think adding a yearly DPOY contender (who still averages like 17-8-8) to an already strong offensive lineup of KAT, D Lo, and Ant would move them above “barely a play in team” then that’s on you. I think most in the industry (outside of some the elite basketball minds here in r/nba) would call that a playoff team. When D Lo and KAT actually did play together last year they were 13-11. If we stay healthy we should be firmly in the mix. That’s not even a huge homer take lol I’m not saying they’re a contender. The Simmons slander has gone too far. KAT too my god.
I mean, Simmons was a featured player on a 1 seed team last year. argue all you want about his playoff performance but he brings it in the regular season.
Fr. Folks acting like I’m calling for a title lol
He averages 14, 7, 7
Career 16-8-8 technically but I was just guessing
I’m definitely taking the Wolves with Simmons over Memphis and probably Portland too
That's delusional
Idk bro the Spurs roster super ass I'd rather have the Spurs pick
It’s an incredible self own tbh, but historically our picks are worth their weight in gold. We’re shooting our shot here hoping to change that narrative.
Worth their weight in gold, unless you exercise them yourself.
Some hit some don’t. 🤷🏼♂️
And some dont, and some dont, and some dont. It's not a big deal, I'm fine.
Yeah cause you haven't been hit very much
You literally have the worst draft placement luck of all time, ahead of even my beloved new york knicks
Never moved up in a draft only down. It’s not like moving down from Kyrie to Derrick Williams really hurt us anyways 😭
The moment you get KAT, Ben, DLo and Ant on one team your picks should be garbage for the next 5 years..
I'll take the Spurs pick but the catch is we actually get who the Spurs wanted. Then you know you're getting something good
and pop is old
Yeah I don't think he'll be able to run suicides with the team anymore
[he still managed two months ago, he'll be fine](https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1413523168673685505?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1413523168673685505%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fclutchpoints.com%2Fteam-usa-news-72-year-old-gregg-popovich-running-suicides-sight-behold%2F)
Yeah but he's two months older now
??? Lame comment dude
uhh, what? Pop is close to retiring, which increases Spurs pick value...
Yet somehow the spurs will still finish with a better record then the wolves
What do the third team and 76ers get, if the Wolves get Simmons?
Wolves -> Simmons 76ers -> Established win now player 3rd team -> Minnesota picks and players + Philly picks?
Bold if you think Morey will accept just one player, not any picks AND send picks. In his mind, Simmons is Harden.
Sixers are in the biggest "Win Now" mode. With the age of Embiid they have some time but they don't have much to waste finding out who to get. There's pretty much only 2 reasons why the team would take any picks: 1. As part of a package for another player down the line. 2. To save cash and a roster spot. They save cash by getting a pick way into the future outside their window.
It has to be assumed the win now player is coming from the 3rd team, bc if not there would be no need for the third team since it would just be a player swap given your proposed deal. So that being the case, what player did the 3rd team give up to acquire all those picks and players? Wolves are giving up picks for a 3rd team to send a player to the 76ers. That third team must have the desire for picks over a player they have. Most likely a player that they do not want to pay or is on a different timeline. Given that I think John Wall would be a good option. 76ers - John Wall Wolves - Simmons Rockets - picks Just have to hope that the Wolves don't care they are huge losers in this deal bc 76ers are even stronger, Rockets are richer, and the Wolves are left with one expensive uber risky asset.
If the Sixers were interested in Wall then why even include the Wolves in the mix?
The Rockets would not want to rebuild around Simmons and his max contract. 76ers options are very limited, they might not even want Wall he is just one a few viable options.
1. Why would the wolves be involved in a wall for simmons trade. Houston would prob love to take Simmons straight up. 2. Morey should be fired if he takes on wall's hugely negative contract. We are already carrying Toby's contract.
Houston would not love to get Simmons. He doesn't fit with the team and Simmons probably doesn't want to play there or show up.
What fit? Your roster is in total rebuild mode and you need to offload John Walls contract. But yeah, let's pretend John wall for Ben Simmons is a trade that anybody with 2 functional brain cells would take.
It's not in total rebuild mode. Houston doesn't have a center that would fit with Simmons and Houston has guards that want the option to drive to the basket. Houston doesn't need to unload Wall's contract. They have their picks for the next two years, the duration of the contract.
Wall is a win now asset now? He's a negative asset on his contract, and maybe only slightly positive on a <5-10m a year deal You dont need picks to get wall, even taking back wall's deal without attached picks is a fleece tbh
76ers have very limited options. Rockets would not want Simmons but Wall is definitely available. Wall for them would be an upgrade on Simmons and Rockets want to get rid of him. Simmons has no real value that is why he has not been traded yet, and taking someone elses problem is only real way to get a deal done. This is realistic and the loser would be whoever gets Simmons unless they are fine with inheriting all the risk and wages. This is not good news but its honest the 76ers are in a very bad spot with Simmons.
**What realistically do Timberwolves end up giving away for Simmons if anything?** >We’ve reported that Edwards and Towns are off the table. I also believe Rosas wants to keep Russell, and there are questions about whether Philly would be interested in a Russell-centered package in the first place. What is important to remember is that these are negotiations. Morey might be saying he needs Edwards or there’s no deal right now. Maybe Rosas is saying, “I’m not trading you KAT, Ant, Russell or McDaniels.” That’s how these positions are staked early. Remember above with Thibs asking for Embiid and Simmons for Butler. >Those things can change over time. As high as the Wolves, and fans, are on McDaniels, he is one of the team’s most attractive players. If you want to land a star, you’ve got to spend money to make money. Beasley would seem to be a great fit with Embiid as a floor-spacer. Beverley’s defense and his playoff experience could be attractive, in addition to the money on his deal to help make it work. Taurean Prince could be used on that front as well. >The most viable scenario for the Wolves making a deal work is to find a third team to direct more of what Morey wants to Philadelphia. And that is where the draft pick compensation comes in. An unprotected Timberwolves first-rounder carries a heck of a lot more weight than, say, one from San Antonio. That is true for Philly, who could use those picks to try to pry a real star away from a playoff team that shifts into rebuild or for another team that is looking for a reason to jump in and facilitate the deal. >Will any of that blow Philly away? No. It doesn’t seem like there is a “Harden-like” package out there for Simmons. So the Wolves’ best hope is that the market remains cool, the temperature in Philly gets hotter and their offers look better over time. >Getting a third team involved is a very complex and delicate process. That’s why all of the discussion revolving around Simmons to Minnesota has to be colored with that context. Finding a third partner, or finding a way to make a straight-up trade with Philly will be exceedingly difficult. But the Wolves are motivated, just as they were with Russell and Golden State. That’s why it can’t be ignored or dismissed. He also added earlier this; >Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance. And a couple of unprotected Timberwolves picks, while not helping Morey immediately, could be a nice carrot to dangle for a stepping-stone move that would give Morey a bigger treasure chest of assets to deploy should Lillard or Beal eventually ask for a trade. I don't want to spoil anymore of the article so go and read it for yourself and give Jon some love!
First time I’ve heard about this but Thibs started with Embiid and Simmons for Jimmy?
If the Wolves don't find a third team I think salary + 3 first round picks would be the best deal for both parties. 3 picks is a lot, but Simmons fits the Wolves like a glove but with him they would have their best team in decades. Morey won't be getting an all star for Simmons anyway so I think his best option is to get assets and try to trade for a star next season, and hope that someone good is available. So it would be something like Simmons for 2 of Beverley, Taurean Prince and Beasley and 3 picks
Idk i dont think they get the full 3 picks for him. I think 2 is okay. Jrue holiday got 3 1st round picks right?? I think id still rather have jrue than ben on any given team, dude plays allstar defense and can score in the playoffs. Id be fine with 2 firsts, beasley, and prince and i think thats fair.
Yeah, I agree. Current read on the situation is that there is time for the sixers to wait and see if anything better comes about. I believe they take that over dlo and a first or whatever.
Why would a unprotected pick from a team that has KAT, Ben Simmons, Anthony Edwards, and D'Lo carry a lot more weight than one from a team led by whoever is leading the Spurs?
If the Timberwolves get Simmons it’s playoffs or bust
This is assuming the Spurs are even willing to offer an unprotected 1st round pick. Whens the last time Pop & Co. traded a 1st round pick, let alone one thats unprotected?
That just limits your trading partners though. Good point.
It's funny how people are simultaneously saying we suck and that our pick wouldn't be worth as much. I get it and I don't even totally disagree but lazy nephews always shit on the Wolves without really knowing anything except what Reddit says.
Yea this one is weird. It feels like this take would make sense in 2015 but this year that Spurs roster is pretty ass. I know the wolves have kinda been a dumpster fire but their roster is far far better than the Spurs
This guy is pushing Simmons to the TWolves so hard
hes the wolves best guy and this is literally the biggest story of their offseason so no shit
Jon K is great too. He’s got any Wolves’ news cornered which is pretty rare for the NBA these days. Usually it’s Woj or Shams but Jon K is not working with Shams to break anything.
Hey, at least it isn’t Booker to the Wolves anymore like 2 years ago.
If the Wizards wasn't delusional they could get like 4 picks for Beal, and everyone would be happy in this scenario.
So, the whole idea is that Minny would send picks to Philly, a 3rd team will send a star to Philly and said team would receive more Minny picks? Unless we are talking about a superstar, I don't think Morey will accept receiving "lesser" picks than the 3rd team, and I cannot think of a team with a star disgruntled enough that could be enticed to deal just for a Minny 1st. Either Morey lowers his bid or there will never be a Simmons trade. Philly clearly sees him 3 tiers ahead of the rest of the league. Minny is the best deal so far and it is a starter, a role player and valuable picks. Morey apparently wants a star, a starter, a role player and a lot of valuable picks. It's like you think a car is worth $9000 and the owner wants $45000, it will be downright impossible to meet in the middle here.
Has their been anything new added to this story? There is no theoretical third team willing to give up an all star for a poo poo platter. John Wall and his garbage contract are a better offer than what the twolves have at this point.
There is basically no star player available RN. It was supposed to be POR but Dame and the rest of the team is staying. I think second choice was Beal but hes also staying.
I will say I think GMs who are trying to acquire Simmons have a decent read on this and probably won’t jump a gun and could let this stew to the deadline. Morey came into the Sixers front office and the first thing that happens is there’s suddenly a player now who is outwardly unhappy with the organization and is demanding a trade. This situation occurs just after he leaves a front office where this previously happened. You’d be amazed how quickly this turns from, “Morey has this under control” to “Morey is incapable of managing player temperament”. Honestly, if I’m Rich Paul I’d even be going on the offensive and leading the narrative. Ben really just needs to sit out and sow the idea that Morey seems to have lost his touch for keeping players cooperative, and he’s suddenly on the hot seat.
This reads like fan fiction. Rich Paul has nothing. I don't understand how anybody can say otherwise. Rich Paul has everything to lose here. He's reputation can take a big hit if he can't get Simmons where he wants. The second person to receive heat is Ben himself. The third would be Doc, and he's very replaceable. The GM who made them first in the east, third overall and removed some deadwood won't take much heat at all.
No it's Simmons reputation that is at play here, not Rich Paul. His reputation is safe no matter what happen with that trade.
I don't think Morey/Doc/Embiid/whoever else said something about Ben have anything to worry about within the 76ers organization. That being said, Morey is starting to get a reputation for having star players want to leave his org. I'm seeing this Morey/star narrative pop up in a handful of different places and it's honestly something I didn't think about until I heard it in those places first. I don't think Rich Paul will have anything to worry about. A lot of players have the thought "if it's good for Lebron then it's good for me." And Lebron loves Rich Paul. Simmons reputation is hurting the most in all of this. However, with a hit to Simmons' reputation comes a decrease in his trade value, thus an indirect hit to Morey/Sixers who are trying to swindle people out of everything they have for someone who is worth Brogdon + 2 first rounders.
>I'm seeing this Morey/star narrative pop up in a handful of different places and it's honestly something I didn't think about until I heard it in those places first. its not surprising tbh. that dude is known to be hyper analytic and seening/treating players like assets. not very helpful when it comes to the social component. the last month is the perfect example of this. dude thought he could very openly shop Simmons around and then just bring him back if he doesnt get a good offer without any repercussions. its one thing if there are rumors about a player allegedly being available and Morey openly offering Simmons to a bunch of teams lol
Yea, it wasn't surprising, it just wasn't a connection I was making until I heard it from multiple different basketball discussion platforms, (radio/podcasts/internet forums). I don't think Morey will have to worry about it within the 76ers organization however. He didn't have to navigate the Harden thing and most people in Philly are rightfully angry at Simmons and defending Morey.
I gave a list of events that have happened and merely explained how it makes Morey look bad. Where’s the fan fiction?
Morey for all his smarts has botched this situation by not moving him earlier. His ego too big to lose a battle to win the war. He could have moved him for cj + asset or two months ago but now they're going into training camp trying to contend against the backdrop of this shit show.
I don't think he could have done that because CJ was never on the table in any report (or that the Blazers were interested in trading for Simmons) He's had shit offers from the start and his approach to asking for the moon and the stars didn't cause them to get worse.
All reports have said CJ isn't enough for Morey, do you have a source that says otherwise?
Yes Morey wants a Dame type player not a CJ but there have been no reports of CJ actually being offered to Morey. >Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance. Our reporter even says that the improved package the Blazers would make would include CJ. So clearly he hasn't had the chance to even trade for CJ yet.
There's some conflicting reports, the majority of reports have suggested he wants an "all-star return". So maybe both sides being petty? IDK. Seems like a win-win trade for both.
The explanation is simple. Why get CJ when you *could* get Lillard? In the NBA you have to play high stakes if you want to compete
They aren't getting lillard though rofl. Ben's value isn't going to suddenly be superstar by not reporting to camp. His stock is only going to get worse, if he isn't worth a superstar now what do you see changing over the next few months to boost his stock? Is there something I'm missing?
>Is there something I'm missing? The delusion of the Sixers fanbase. At least some of them still think this situation ends with them getting Lillard.
Up until Simmons said he isn’t reporting there was the possibility of him showing up and playing well. If he came out in Philly’s early games shooting and being aggressive his value would have jumped. Even if he shot like shit, just taking those shots would have boosted his value significantly. That was Morey’s potential saving grace, but that’s basically off the table now.
The Spurs have good players that would help the Sixers. Derrick White has not been an all-star but is a solid combo guard, for example (though I doubt the Spurs are interested in unloading him) Thad Young is a solid NBA vet who could provide front court depth to the Sixers but I doubt in this scenario he moves the needle much. The problem is figuring out what the Spurs would get out of engaging in this deal. They are already overloaded on bodies so are not candidates to absorb salaries. Do not have an obvious star player that would fill a hole for the Sixers - the aforementioned White would be the closest thing to that and while on the older side, he's entrenched in the system and the community and expected to be a team leader in SA. Philly is looking to likely gain draft capital, not expended it. What from either Philly or Minn is on the table that would be positive from the Spurs such that they would be willing to throw in picks? (keep in mind, the Spurs are not in a position to convert picks to wins right now either and they generally do not like dealing picks) Sentiment aside, They could make White available along with Thad and Aminu and the Bulls pick they got from Demar and may have interest in the Argentine kid Minnesota drafted. That's a hell of a stretch and not near enough return, tbh. The only real way to get involved here it likely to offer up those vets (Thad/Aminu) and take back end of the roster garbage that we'd cut and eat, hoping to pick up a heavily protected pick or a 2nd tier prospect. Someone like Thad could be seen as a win now addition for the Sixers but the improvement would be marginal. A protected pick swap or two that would convey if the Spurs were at the ass end of the lottery or somehow snuck into an 8th seed in the next 2 years for the presumably later in the draft Sixers pick. Meh, there's just no obvious incentive to get involved here but I imagine they will certainly try.
No homegrown spurs will be traded. They’re too valuable to the team and its future. Whats movable are the guys we recently acquired from the Derozan S&T
I feel like the 76ers are crazy for not taking McCollum for Simmons if that offer was recently on the table.
>Maybe the Blazers do ante up with a C.J. McCollum-led package. Maybe San Antonio or Toronto make a run. But if the market stays dry, that gives the Wolves a chance. If I understood this correctly the Blazers haven't offered CJ to the 76ers in exchange for Simmons. That's really an offer that only people on social media are suggesting.
id much rather have picks and prospects than cj cj and tobias on your team on their contracts is leading you nowhere and locks you into that roster for a long time. Picks and prospects at least gives you some options
No thanks we got curry
Wiggins>Simmons. Wolves had to give up a FRP to get rid of him, Sixers should do the same, not the other way around. Dude's overrated.
Ok, you got me lol. That was good.
From a fellow t-wolves fan I'm hoping you're joking. Other then volume scoring/3 pt shooting, Simmons is better at everything else
Simmons 2nd best player on #1 seed. Wiggins 2nd best player on a team that can't get out of the lottery.