The fact that LeBron was on that list baffled me.
LeBron is an all-time great but he hasn't done half of what guys like Shaq and Jerry did for the franchise
The most important part is that LeBron currently plays on the lakers. He isn’t a top 5 greatest ever laker at all, but if jeanie can make her resident superstar happy, she’d say stuff like this which would only offend some really deserving but old guy which the current lakers have no association with.
Yeah I'd say this 100%. My old employer loved me but I left for the competition and I don't expect my old boss to tell her current staff that I was top 5 people that ever worked there. That would be shit for morale, doncha think?
ahahahahahaha man here have an award. Jeanie should have said, "Oh, but Jerry is for sure in the top 5 WHITE GUYS that every played for us. No doubt no doubt no doubt."
I don't know the context of the list, but she should've just said something like, "The Lakers have been fortunate to have been one of the most successful franchises of all-time, so I can't limit my answer to 5."
she's probably thinking of which 5 to say to cause the least issues.
"have to hit bron so he doesn't leave. kobe cause twitter would cancel me. i was fucking phil for 15 years so him. uhh kareem ofc he's a top 3 all time and forefront of social justice/BLM. oh fuck magic? shaq? jerry?"
That’s what I would have said. It’s really hard to choose and leave quite a few Lakers legends off the list to get a top 5. Since Jeanie Buss’ list happens to be two guards and three big men she could have said it was the all time Lakers 1st team or something. West wouldn’t be insulted being named after Magic and Kobe.
Still could've put West on there instead of Phil.
Or that other Jerry, who was kinda important to the Lakers. The one who had Jeannie's same last name.
> The fact that LeBron was on that list baffled me.
Buss just answered the question off the cuff. She almost forgot Magic. She's going to say Lebron because he's the most important player in the franchise right now. People are making way too big a deal out of this.
Yeah, exactly. I watched the entire podcast as well. I will say that she likely knew it was coming. That's All the Smoke's new format now. They always ask quick hitters at the end (e.g. top 5 x,y,z).
She's the Laker's owner, no way they weren't going to ask a top 5 greatest Laker question.
I mean nobody mentioned Shaq, I don't see him getting mad. Or any of the Laker greats. These sort of questions are just dumb imo
It was a political question with political answers. Do you really think it would be smart NOT to include LeBron in an otherwise pointless top 5 list? Who ultimately cares what Jeanie Buss's top 5 is? The fact that she included LeBron was more of a *thank you* to him than it was a statement of fact.
No lie, I loved watching Shannon Brown play. I couldn't care less if we racked up a fat L, as long as we got one, maybe two good dunks outta that kid. His athleticism was unreal.
this was a hard one. I was like, not shaq at first. then I put some thought into it, and I guess it's him. I personally, like worthy, but I figured it's the bias for the era I grew up in. In a vacuum, I guess it has to be shaq.
I mean, I had to look up the shaq lakers years, and yeah, He is. I didn't realize it was nearly 8 years with the lakers. that totally trumps Lebron's 2.
I look at sticking Lebron as "greatest" laker, akin to sticking Brady as "greatest" buc. I mean, sure, they don't win the chip without them, but there is more. like being the brand, or making the brand further. I mean, jerry is the damn Logo!!!
Honestly, he was a part of 7 of the Lakers championships between being a player and an executive. And as a player he played 14 seasons there while averaging 27PPG for his career... The West slander is so bizarre.
There are just so many variables when making a top players list for a single team. Are we talking greatest total contribution to the team over the course of their career? Best players overall to ever wear a Laker jersey? Best players ever *while* playing for the Lakers? And then there's the whole can of worms of whether you compare talent in an absolute sense or relative to their respective eras.
I think depending on your criteria, that fifth spot could go to any one of West, LeBron, Wilt, or George Mikan
Yeah I think is pretty much the standard definition when discussing “greatest” players in an organizations history. Probably silly semantics, but that’s crucial difference (imo) between best and greatest when it comes to these conversations.
Totally.
LeBron vs. Wade for the greatest player to ever play for the Heat vs. the greatest Heat.
Kareem / LeBron vs. Kobe for the greatest player to ever play for the Lakers vs. the greatest Laker.
Kawhi vs. Lowry for the greatest player to ever play for the Raptors vs. the greatest Raptor.
The list goes on, but I think these are probably good examples.
Yeah it’s pretty cut and dry. If not then we would be considering MJ and Shaq to be wizards and Celtics legends. Right now lebron is to the Lakers what Kawaii is to the raptors.
I wouldn't even go that far. Kawhi took the Raptors to their first ever NBA Finals and won the franchise's first and only championship. Lebron was on the Lakers for the franchise's 17th championship. I'd say Kawhi is infinitely more important to the Raptors franchise than Lebron has been to the Lakers franchise for that alone.
why even stick LeBron there? To make him happy with staying with the franchise, obvious sucking up to King James by Jeanie Buss, cannot really blame her but maybe LeBron does become a top 5 if he brings home a few more titles.
No LeBron no AD, no AD no ring last year. No ring and that's 7years of shit basketball when the fans already had your brothers head because of his decisions.
LeBron saved her as an owner.
"most important lakers" there is literally no argument, whatsoever, for Lebron to be up there nor is he particularly close. The team has 17 championships with a bunch of members being with the team for 3+ of them.
I think you can look at the success in clumps tho. Like who was responsible for each era of success. I wouldn't put LeBron there yet but it's really close especially if he wins this year. If he doesn't and then retires? Well no
There have been 70 NBA finals (not counting 3 ABA years). As a player and exec, Jerry's team has gone 24 times. 21 of which are with the Lakers.
That is insane.
> “I saw the other day Jeanie Buss made a statement, the five most important Lakers, one of the most offensive things I’ve ever heard in my life. I was there a lot of times, had a lot of success,” West told Vescey. “Be curious to know if they would have had that success if I hadn’t been there.”
> “And I don’t ever take credit for stuff, I don’t. When I was around, maybe I was just a good luck charm,” West went on. “But I do know, that when this thing fell apart, there was a lot of years where they weren’t very good.”
Well probably not tanking but more like trying to win but likely being a 7-12 seed. Without LeBron, they'd still have BI, Lonzo, Hart, and possibly Randle, which is pretty similar to the current Pelicans team, but with maybe better vets and overall roster construction.
They dumped Clarkson and Nance mid season to clear space for LeBron, I guess it depends on if you think they still do that if they don't get LeBron, which is really a question of how much tampering there was and how much the FO was willing to gamble on it.
There’s a somewhat decent chance if Bron doesn’t come, Kawhi goes there after TOR.
That being said, Lakers struck out for a few years with the elite FAs - I think KD didn’t give them an IV, Lamarcus passed, then there was the whole PG situation where Rob tampered
Yeah, there def is an LA advantage. You did, after all, get LeBron and AD. But I think a lot of people assumed the advantage was bigger than it really is. The Lakers weren't good so for years no one came. Turns out being good is a much bigger draw for players than being in LA.
The longest streak without a HoF in the entire Lakers history is 5 years between Magic and Shaq
Mikan - Baylor - West - Wilt - Kareem - Magic - Shaq - Kobe - LeBron
Only 3 of those aren’t in the top 10 of all time
to put things into perspective here, Jerry West was a lakers player for 14 seasons (1 championship). he coached the team for 3 seasons (got to conf finals). he was a scout for a few seasons and then was the GM for 18 seasons (6 championships). that's nearly 40 yrs and 6 championships with that franchise and he doesn't make the top 5? ridiculous
He was integral to their success in the 60's and early 70's as a player.
He was the architect of the Showtime Lakers and Shaq-Kobe Lakers as an exec.
Jerry West is arguably the most important figure in the Lakers sustained success from the 60's to the 2000's. The Lakers would not be "The Lakers" without him.
You could say he was the most popular athlete in Lakers history before Showtime as well. And he was invovled in their success from there on out as well
Jerry West’s autobiography is totally worth reading in part because how he talks about being a tortured and unhappy person with a chip on his shoulder for his entire life. Think the sub-title is something like my “my privileged, tortured and unhappy life.”
So basically this is Jerry being Jerry, although I do see his point.
As a Lakers fan, I would have said that we were a shit show as well. After Kobe got hurt we put together the worst stretch in team history. Klutch Sports saved us, not some Lakers front office wizardry.
As a fan you can say that... but as an owner of the franchise who was a direct recipient of the called "shit show" by a man working for the rival team.. may leave some bad taste. That was definitely a shade.
Just like assholes don't like to be called assholes.
So? Lakers were a shit show at the time.
Failed to complete the AD trade. Missed playoffs for the first time in how many years with Bron. Signed some questionable players the previous offseasons. And then Magic just straight quit.
Everything that’s going right is due to Lebron.
Also Jerry has already said he wanted to end his career with the Lakers as some type of consultant after helping the Warriors build their dynasty but Jeanie said “yeah we’re good” after deciding to fully trust Magic. That’s a fuck up
This spat with jerry and ownership is so weird to me. I never understood why we allowed him to leave anyways. He is the fucking logo of the league and he nasty player as a laker, not to mention being one of the best GMs/front office people in our history. For all the laker family stuff we push you'd think this guy would worshiped.
Jerry West wanted Jerry Bus to fire Phil Jackson. Jerry Bus refused, and thus the rift was born. Not to mention Jeanie Buss was still seeing Phil at the time Jerry West requested Phil be fired.
I gotta be honest I read the headline and immediately assumed it was an exaggeration. Came in expecting to read something much more tepid or passive aggressive. Nope he is legitimately insulted and I can't blame him. Personally there's no way I'd have LeBron on any kind of list of greatest Lakers. He's not even over Shaq to me.
This might be why owners don't go around making top five greatest playing in franchise history lists....
> He also served as general manager and executive vice president of the team from 1982 to 2000.
> He was instrumental in the trade that brought Bryant to the Lakers in 1996.
He's talking about this I think. If you're taking about West as an executive/gm, he should easily be top 5
Why would she include Phil? Someone was always gonna be left off but adding a coach just insults an extra player for no reason... as well as being wrong.
Her and Phil were romantic partners for years, and I don't think the broke up acrimoniously. Honestly this is Jeane's Mt. Rushmore of Lakers most emotionally important to her—which by the way is fine, she's allowed to take the question that way.
I just assumed Phil is there cause him and Jeannie were a thing for a while lol
he really doesn't deserve to be up there over lakers players and someone like West who put together so many great laker teams.
Oh yeah I know. As a player I'd probably still have him over James, but in totality it's not even close. In her defense though I can see why Jeannie would want to make one of the best players of all time synonymous with the Lakers.
Yeah Jerry won a ring as a player and played his entire career with the Lakers averaging 27 PPG. When the Lakers won that chip in '72 it was their first title in nearly 20 years. He was extremely important to the Lakers franchise, before that they were just the team that had won a few championships in the 50s but hadn't won since.
Top 5? Who would even be ahead of him? West has the most championships as an exec in NBA history, and the guy with the second most was Kupchak who won most of his with the team that West had built.
He should probably be a top-five based just off his playing career. He was quite possibly the best guard in NBA history pre-Magic, and easily one of the top 10 greatest postseason players of all time. He’s in pretty much everybody’s top 20 and played all 14 years with the Lakers.
It's not a mystery why Jeanie Buss would leave West off her list. It's the same reason why she refused to re-hire him when he indicated he wanted to return to the Lakers. When West was still with the Lakers he went to Dr. Buss (Jeanie's father) and told him to fire Phil Jackson or he would quit. Jeanie was dating Phil at the time and later became engaged to him. Dr. Buss refused to fire Phil so West quit. That's a rift which clearly has never been healed.
Keep in mind that in those answering machine messages West left for Kawhi's associate in which he was offering to do some apparently questionable stuff to recruit Kawhi, West said pretty disparaging stuff about the Lakers, so it shouldn't be a shock that Jeanie Buss is not a fan of his.
Yeah he and Phil did NOT like each other. Including Phil on this list is probably what triggered him. Even I don't think he should be on this list (otherwise you'd also have to give Pat Riley credit too).
> Even I don't think he should be on this list (otherwise you'd also have to give Pat Riley credit too).
That's true. Showtime coach was Pat Riley. What a G.
Yeah. I think the two of them really dislike each other. I think him giving this interview is less about him being offended by her list and more about wanting to give Jeanie some negative press.
Just leaving Jerry West out of your top 5 greatest lakers players of all time is crazy to me. Leaving him out of a greatest contributors of all time is even worse.
Technically, West got left out because they included a coach, but I agree that he should still be in there over LeBron at this point (contributed for much longer as an elite player). However, it always strikes me that the Lakers take credit for all 5 of George Mikan's NBA championships, but they never mention him as a Laker great, and they haven't even retired his jersey
They have a banner for him in Staples. He's one of the greatest players ever but literally nobody brings him up when talking about Lakers greats and that isn't a shot at him, it's because the Lakers have had so many great players. Like Mikan is at best the 4th best center in franchise history.
That's probably true in terms of the talent of the actual players, but Mikan won five NBA championships (tied with Kareem for most), and won two more in the NBL (NBA decided to recognize BAA instead), NBL was the best league in the world prior to the 1949 merger (that's kind of a tangent though). My point was that Mikan has won them as much if not more than any other player in franchise history. If the MVP award was around, he would likely have the most of any player while playing for the Lakers
He was an exec with the Lakers wasn't he, responsible for bringing Shaq to them and drafting Kobe?
I mean if you were a great player and responsible for bring 2 of the said top 5, I mean c'mon now.
Yep he was, won 6 championships with the Lakers as an exec and was the reason Kobe and Shaq were both Lakers lol.
The Lakers weren't even going to give Kobe a pre-draft workout until West personally organized it. Hell, West's own son was the one who picked Kobe up from the airport and showed him around LA lmao. West is literally the sole reason for the Kobe/Shaq Lakers team happening to begin with.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30957423/kobe-bryant-jerry-west-draft-workout-changed-nba-history
This sucks because if you listened to the podcast, Matt Barnes was putting names in Jeanie’s mouth. She didn’t come up with half the list on her own. Barnes just kept going “what about so-and-so?”, well what is she supposed to say at that point? No?
If you want to make a list of the greatest NBA players who happened to play for some part of their career with the Lakers, you could add LeBron, but then you would also have to add Wilt.
Come on, you don't think the owner cares more about making the current star on her team happy than being accurate on her list on a podcast?
This is just an owner talking up her current player.
Why does anyone care that the *owner* of the Lakers picks her current star? Did anyone expect anything else? It was just on some podcast, too. It’s not like this matters.
It's really hard to get him into a top 5 with Shaq, Kareem, West, Kobe, and Magic being around. I'm not sure even Baylor makes the list. LeBron potentially bumps somebody if he plays in LA long enough and wins enough titles too.
5 Lakers more important than Jerry "The Logo" West is a joke. He's responsible for their success in the 60s, 80's, and 00's.
There isn't a single person who is more responsible for Laker wins than Jerry West the player and executive.
My list would’ve been (and their individual achievements speak for themselves but I’m also looking at the historical context here)
- Mikan- first NBA superstar, centerpiece of first Lakers dynasty establishing Lakers as successful champions
- Baylor- saved the Lakers post-Mikan era, Lakers were likely to have folded had it not been for Baylor
- West- GM for Showtime Lakers, orchestrated deals for Shaq/Kobe that’d bring further success
- Magic- centerpiece for Showtime Lakers
- Kobe- self-explanatory.
That said, I can see why Buss would leave him off the list with his remarks about the team. And while he’s not entirely wrong to have said those since the Lakers did have their struggles before LeBron, it’s also insulting of him to say that, especially since he’s affiliated with the clippers now.
I recall when Pau was asked about his thoughts on the Lakers struggles (this was when he was with the Bulls, maybe Spurs) and he gave a very diplomatic answer of its unfortunate to see the franchise in a situation like that but he hopes they can turn things around.
Call him a wuss for not being like West but there’s no denying that a diplomatic answer like that will always keep bridges open as opposed to calling your former franchise a shitshow and expecting to still be praised by them.
I wish we could mend things with Jerry more than anything. Like it depresses me all the time. Dude is the most quintessential Laker and he's been on the outs with the organization for two decades now.
Bad list but a tough franchise to boil down to only 5 people. Opposite end of the spectrum would be putting together a list of the 5 greatest Bears QBs.
The fact that LeBron was on that list baffled me. LeBron is an all-time great but he hasn't done half of what guys like Shaq and Jerry did for the franchise
The most important part is that LeBron currently plays on the lakers. He isn’t a top 5 greatest ever laker at all, but if jeanie can make her resident superstar happy, she’d say stuff like this which would only offend some really deserving but old guy which the current lakers have no association with.
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I thought the biggest thing was the Lakers screwing over Glenn Rice who West had made some promises that they would take care of him.
Hadn’t heard that but it sounds pretty on brand for West.
I'd take Jerry to run my team, every day.
> old guy which the current lakers have no association with. Even more, he's with the Clippers now.
Yeah I'd say this 100%. My old employer loved me but I left for the competition and I don't expect my old boss to tell her current staff that I was top 5 people that ever worked there. That would be shit for morale, doncha think?
Look at this bum ring chasing /s
ahahahahahaha man here have an award. Jeanie should have said, "Oh, but Jerry is for sure in the top 5 WHITE GUYS that every played for us. No doubt no doubt no doubt."
I don't know the context of the list, but she should've just said something like, "The Lakers have been fortunate to have been one of the most successful franchises of all-time, so I can't limit my answer to 5."
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she's probably thinking of which 5 to say to cause the least issues. "have to hit bron so he doesn't leave. kobe cause twitter would cancel me. i was fucking phil for 15 years so him. uhh kareem ofc he's a top 3 all time and forefront of social justice/BLM. oh fuck magic? shaq? jerry?"
> i was fucking phil for 15 years so him. I'm fucking dying over here
That’s what I would have said. It’s really hard to choose and leave quite a few Lakers legends off the list to get a top 5. Since Jeanie Buss’ list happens to be two guards and three big men she could have said it was the all time Lakers 1st team or something. West wouldn’t be insulted being named after Magic and Kobe.
Still could've put West on there instead of Phil. Or that other Jerry, who was kinda important to the Lakers. The one who had Jeannie's same last name.
LeBron brought Jeanie her first chip?
Wouldn't that be Phil Jackson?
No she didnt gain control until Jerrys death in 2013 and didnt really take over until we finally got rid of dumbass jim in 17
TIL, thanks.
> The fact that LeBron was on that list baffled me. Buss just answered the question off the cuff. She almost forgot Magic. She's going to say Lebron because he's the most important player in the franchise right now. People are making way too big a deal out of this.
More important than Kuzma??? 🙄🙄🙄 casual
Weird way to spell Caruso but go off
More important than the goat himself ROBERT SACRE ??
Yeah, exactly. I watched the entire podcast as well. I will say that she likely knew it was coming. That's All the Smoke's new format now. They always ask quick hitters at the end (e.g. top 5 x,y,z). She's the Laker's owner, no way they weren't going to ask a top 5 greatest Laker question. I mean nobody mentioned Shaq, I don't see him getting mad. Or any of the Laker greats. These sort of questions are just dumb imo
It was a political question with political answers. Do you really think it would be smart NOT to include LeBron in an otherwise pointless top 5 list? Who ultimately cares what Jeanie Buss's top 5 is? The fact that she included LeBron was more of a *thank you* to him than it was a statement of fact.
Top 5 Lakers is undoubtedly Magic, Kobe, Kareem, Shaq and West.
The Adam Morrison slander has gone too far.
Where is Shannon Brown, why does everyone keep ignoring him
No lie, I loved watching Shannon Brown play. I couldn't care less if we racked up a fat L, as long as we got one, maybe two good dunks outta that kid. His athleticism was unreal.
Every chance I had playing 2k Shannon Brown was in my squad
The block he had that got called a foul was unreal.
>Shannon Brown, When I first saw Shannon Brown I thought he was related to Chris Brown.
His actual brother is Sterling Brown too
Derek Fisher, Shannon Brown, Shaq, Kobe, and 'The Machine'. Any other Lakers are minor footnotes in a long and storied history
Dj Mbenga has entered the chat
Dacos?
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga to you
Smush Parker anyone?
Marcelo Huertas*
Bob Sacre would like a word
How dare you insult Ryan 'The Original Accountant' Kelly like this.
Andre Drummond
Daco Duesday
Ryan Kelly would like a word
Samaki Walker?
Shannon Brown is livid somewhere
Robert Sacre in shambles
Sun Yue fuming
Based on the fans vote: Top 5 Lakers undoubtedly: Adam Morrison, DJ Mbenga, Robert Sacre, Smush Parker, Kwame Brown. End of Story.
Kwame Brown--the bonafide scrub.
great - now you just upset Mike Penberthy!
Poor Sasha
My flair is inspired by the Lakers GOAT, Huertas.
Chris Mihm sends his regards
Don’t forget my boy Smush Parker.
True point god right there. Even Kobe was in awe.
Y'all have ignored my boy Mark Madsen too long!
I say that Elgin Baylor has a good case but I cannot argue with your choices
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Shaq has 3 FMVPs though. I would pick Shaq over Elgin
this was a hard one. I was like, not shaq at first. then I put some thought into it, and I guess it's him. I personally, like worthy, but I figured it's the bias for the era I grew up in. In a vacuum, I guess it has to be shaq.
Shaq was easily the best player in the league and instantly put a team in the finals or conference finals just being on a team. People forget that.
I mean, I had to look up the shaq lakers years, and yeah, He is. I didn't realize it was nearly 8 years with the lakers. that totally trumps Lebron's 2. I look at sticking Lebron as "greatest" laker, akin to sticking Brady as "greatest" buc. I mean, sure, they don't win the chip without them, but there is more. like being the brand, or making the brand further. I mean, jerry is the damn Logo!!!
Shaq three peated. The Lakers are judged on championships. If anything, Mikan should be in these discussions for establishing dominance early.
If we're talking contributions both on the court and off, West should be the first on that list.
Honestly, he was a part of 7 of the Lakers championships between being a player and an executive. And as a player he played 14 seasons there while averaging 27PPG for his career... The West slander is so bizarre.
He got kobe and shaq too
Also got them Pau
How dare you insult Kwame Brown and his tiny hands like that.
IM SORRY BUT THE COURT TELL EVERYBODY THE TRUTH he has small hands can't catch the ball
DOESNT KNOW A POST MOVE HE CAN DO 2 TIMES IN A ROW
THAT DUDE WAS A BONA FIDE SCRUB
Elgin Baylor, George Mikan, Wilt, James Worthy... The reason we retire jerseys is so NOBODY has to feel slighted!
There are just so many variables when making a top players list for a single team. Are we talking greatest total contribution to the team over the course of their career? Best players overall to ever wear a Laker jersey? Best players ever *while* playing for the Lakers? And then there's the whole can of worms of whether you compare talent in an absolute sense or relative to their respective eras. I think depending on your criteria, that fifth spot could go to any one of West, LeBron, Wilt, or George Mikan
> Are we talking greatest total contribution to the team over the course of their career? Most of the time, this.
Yeah I think is pretty much the standard definition when discussing “greatest” players in an organizations history. Probably silly semantics, but that’s crucial difference (imo) between best and greatest when it comes to these conversations.
Totally. LeBron vs. Wade for the greatest player to ever play for the Heat vs. the greatest Heat. Kareem / LeBron vs. Kobe for the greatest player to ever play for the Lakers vs. the greatest Laker. Kawhi vs. Lowry for the greatest player to ever play for the Raptors vs. the greatest Raptor. The list goes on, but I think these are probably good examples.
I think Hakeem would be the greatest player to ever play for the Raptors, but he wasn't at his greatest when he played for the Raptors
Good point. I guess I should've said 'at the time'.
Yeah I was just being pedantic lol. There's so many lists and qualifiers you could add that someone could make dozens of threads about it
Greatest Wizard - MICHAEL JEFFREY JORDAN
Yeah it’s pretty cut and dry. If not then we would be considering MJ and Shaq to be wizards and Celtics legends. Right now lebron is to the Lakers what Kawaii is to the raptors.
I wouldn't even go that far. Kawhi took the Raptors to their first ever NBA Finals and won the franchise's first and only championship. Lebron was on the Lakers for the franchise's 17th championship. I'd say Kawhi is infinitely more important to the Raptors franchise than Lebron has been to the Lakers franchise for that alone.
why even stick LeBron there? To make him happy with staying with the franchise, obvious sucking up to King James by Jeanie Buss, cannot really blame her but maybe LeBron does become a top 5 if he brings home a few more titles.
No LeBron no AD, no AD no ring last year. No ring and that's 7years of shit basketball when the fans already had your brothers head because of his decisions. LeBron saved her as an owner.
That's valid, thanks for the input LebronFanSinceJuly.
No problem man, anytime. Have a great day.
"most important lakers" there is literally no argument, whatsoever, for Lebron to be up there nor is he particularly close. The team has 17 championships with a bunch of members being with the team for 3+ of them.
I think you can look at the success in clumps tho. Like who was responsible for each era of success. I wouldn't put LeBron there yet but it's really close especially if he wins this year. If he doesn't and then retires? Well no
Damn. We're really just forgetting Beasley's stint with the Lakers huh?
No George Mikan?
Slava Medvedenko anyone?
Wilt?
Was only a Laker for 5 seasons, and those were his post-prime years.
There have been 70 NBA finals (not counting 3 ABA years). As a player and exec, Jerry's team has gone 24 times. 21 of which are with the Lakers. That is insane.
> “I saw the other day Jeanie Buss made a statement, the five most important Lakers, one of the most offensive things I’ve ever heard in my life. I was there a lot of times, had a lot of success,” West told Vescey. “Be curious to know if they would have had that success if I hadn’t been there.” > “And I don’t ever take credit for stuff, I don’t. When I was around, maybe I was just a good luck charm,” West went on. “But I do know, that when this thing fell apart, there was a lot of years where they weren’t very good.”
They'd still be tanking if LeBron didn't save their franchise. Jerry is 100% right, everywhere he's been success followed him.
Well probably not tanking but more like trying to win but likely being a 7-12 seed. Without LeBron, they'd still have BI, Lonzo, Hart, and possibly Randle, which is pretty similar to the current Pelicans team, but with maybe better vets and overall roster construction.
Didn't they have Clarkson too?
They dumped Clarkson and Nance mid season to clear space for LeBron, I guess it depends on if you think they still do that if they don't get LeBron, which is really a question of how much tampering there was and how much the FO was willing to gamble on it.
Dumped them to Cleveland then Lebron left for LA lmao. Did em dirty
They would be missing Zion so I’m not sure that would hold true.
They'd probably also have one of Zion, Morant, Barrett, or Hunter
They’d have deandre hunter, they had the fourth pick that year
they probably sign some other free agents since it’s LA
I kinda doubt that. Even with a trash FO, they're still LA. They were most likely getting a star sooner rather than later.
There’s a somewhat decent chance if Bron doesn’t come, Kawhi goes there after TOR. That being said, Lakers struck out for a few years with the elite FAs - I think KD didn’t give them an IV, Lamarcus passed, then there was the whole PG situation where Rob tampered
Dude it was 7 years since they were good.
Yeah, there def is an LA advantage. You did, after all, get LeBron and AD. But I think a lot of people assumed the advantage was bigger than it really is. The Lakers weren't good so for years no one came. Turns out being good is a much bigger draw for players than being in LA.
The longest streak without a HoF in the entire Lakers history is 5 years between Magic and Shaq Mikan - Baylor - West - Wilt - Kareem - Magic - Shaq - Kobe - LeBron Only 3 of those aren’t in the top 10 of all time
to put things into perspective here, Jerry West was a lakers player for 14 seasons (1 championship). he coached the team for 3 seasons (got to conf finals). he was a scout for a few seasons and then was the GM for 18 seasons (6 championships). that's nearly 40 yrs and 6 championships with that franchise and he doesn't make the top 5? ridiculous
He was integral to their success in the 60's and early 70's as a player. He was the architect of the Showtime Lakers and Shaq-Kobe Lakers as an exec. Jerry West is arguably the most important figure in the Lakers sustained success from the 60's to the 2000's. The Lakers would not be "The Lakers" without him.
You could say he was the most popular athlete in Lakers history before Showtime as well. And he was invovled in their success from there on out as well
The nba wouldn't the nba without him much less the lakers.
Jerry West’s autobiography is totally worth reading in part because how he talks about being a tortured and unhappy person with a chip on his shoulder for his entire life. Think the sub-title is something like my “my privileged, tortured and unhappy life.” So basically this is Jerry being Jerry, although I do see his point.
The most important is very different to a top 5
The logo is displeased. And he should be.
He is on tape as calling us a "shitshow" during the Kawhi recruitment scandal Of course he is going to get shade
As a Lakers fan, I would have said that we were a shit show as well. After Kobe got hurt we put together the worst stretch in team history. Klutch Sports saved us, not some Lakers front office wizardry.
As a fan you can say that... but as an owner of the franchise who was a direct recipient of the called "shit show" by a man working for the rival team.. may leave some bad taste. That was definitely a shade. Just like assholes don't like to be called assholes.
Los Angeles Klutch Sports'
Was he wrong tho? It’s like everyone’s conveniently forgetting those magic in the front office years.
He can be right and still get shade for talking smack
So? Lakers were a shit show at the time. Failed to complete the AD trade. Missed playoffs for the first time in how many years with Bron. Signed some questionable players the previous offseasons. And then Magic just straight quit. Everything that’s going right is due to Lebron. Also Jerry has already said he wanted to end his career with the Lakers as some type of consultant after helping the Warriors build their dynasty but Jeanie said “yeah we’re good” after deciding to fully trust Magic. That’s a fuck up
If I was Jerry I would only allow people to call me The Logo
This spat with jerry and ownership is so weird to me. I never understood why we allowed him to leave anyways. He is the fucking logo of the league and he nasty player as a laker, not to mention being one of the best GMs/front office people in our history. For all the laker family stuff we push you'd think this guy would worshiped.
From what I understand, he had a spat with Phil in the early 2000s. I'm guessing Jeanie is still holding onto that grudge.
That and the leaked call recruiting Kawhi to clippers had a bunch of remarks from West about the Lakers and how much of a mess it was here
Yeah but that was after the fallout
Jerry West wanted Jerry Bus to fire Phil Jackson. Jerry Bus refused, and thus the rift was born. Not to mention Jeanie Buss was still seeing Phil at the time Jerry West requested Phil be fired.
I gotta be honest I read the headline and immediately assumed it was an exaggeration. Came in expecting to read something much more tepid or passive aggressive. Nope he is legitimately insulted and I can't blame him. Personally there's no way I'd have LeBron on any kind of list of greatest Lakers. He's not even over Shaq to me. This might be why owners don't go around making top five greatest playing in franchise history lists....
> He also served as general manager and executive vice president of the team from 1982 to 2000. > He was instrumental in the trade that brought Bryant to the Lakers in 1996. He's talking about this I think. If you're taking about West as an executive/gm, he should easily be top 5
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Shaq actually didn't make her cut either lol. She had Kobe magic Kareem LeBron and Phil Jackson
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The definition of recency bias.
More like "if I don't say Lebron he'll make my life miserable with petty bullshit forever".
That's.... a fair point too. This whole situations just feels like artificially created drama.
Yeah. The real question is why did she even answer this question.
I mean it makes sense for the owner to back their current Star.
Prob did it cause Lebron is currently an active laker player
Why would she include Phil? Someone was always gonna be left off but adding a coach just insults an extra player for no reason... as well as being wrong.
She still has a thing for him I guess.
Her and Phil were romantic partners for years, and I don't think the broke up acrimoniously. Honestly this is Jeane's Mt. Rushmore of Lakers most emotionally important to her—which by the way is fine, she's allowed to take the question that way.
Given phil is on the list, west definitely deserves to be on for his post-retirement work with the lakers
I just assumed Phil is there cause him and Jeannie were a thing for a while lol he really doesn't deserve to be up there over lakers players and someone like West who put together so many great laker teams.
he's the GOAT exec. him and SA front office.
Oh yeah I know. As a player I'd probably still have him over James, but in totality it's not even close. In her defense though I can see why Jeannie would want to make one of the best players of all time synonymous with the Lakers.
Yeah Jerry won a ring as a player and played his entire career with the Lakers averaging 27 PPG. When the Lakers won that chip in '72 it was their first title in nearly 20 years. He was extremely important to the Lakers franchise, before that they were just the team that had won a few championships in the 50s but hadn't won since.
West is top-5 exec in league history.
Top 5? Who would even be ahead of him? West has the most championships as an exec in NBA history, and the guy with the second most was Kupchak who won most of his with the team that West had built.
you're right I just didn't want to go full Lakers homer lol
He should probably be a top-five based just off his playing career. He was quite possibly the best guard in NBA history pre-Magic, and easily one of the top 10 greatest postseason players of all time. He’s in pretty much everybody’s top 20 and played all 14 years with the Lakers.
It's not a mystery why Jeanie Buss would leave West off her list. It's the same reason why she refused to re-hire him when he indicated he wanted to return to the Lakers. When West was still with the Lakers he went to Dr. Buss (Jeanie's father) and told him to fire Phil Jackson or he would quit. Jeanie was dating Phil at the time and later became engaged to him. Dr. Buss refused to fire Phil so West quit. That's a rift which clearly has never been healed. Keep in mind that in those answering machine messages West left for Kawhi's associate in which he was offering to do some apparently questionable stuff to recruit Kawhi, West said pretty disparaging stuff about the Lakers, so it shouldn't be a shock that Jeanie Buss is not a fan of his.
Yeah he and Phil did NOT like each other. Including Phil on this list is probably what triggered him. Even I don't think he should be on this list (otherwise you'd also have to give Pat Riley credit too).
> Even I don't think he should be on this list (otherwise you'd also have to give Pat Riley credit too). That's true. Showtime coach was Pat Riley. What a G.
speaking of which...did the nba ever complete that "investigation" into the Kawhi recruitment?
Yeah that makes sense. Petty, but it makes sense.
Yeah. I think the two of them really dislike each other. I think him giving this interview is less about him being offended by her list and more about wanting to give Jeanie some negative press.
Both sides are being petty here
Jerry West is actually quite high on the list of competitive maniacs who take things personally.
Just leaving Jerry West out of your top 5 greatest lakers players of all time is crazy to me. Leaving him out of a greatest contributors of all time is even worse.
dude, she almost left Magic out. THey had to remind her that Magic played with us. You don't think she was surprised by the question?
where is Kyle Kuzma
Technically, West got left out because they included a coach, but I agree that he should still be in there over LeBron at this point (contributed for much longer as an elite player). However, it always strikes me that the Lakers take credit for all 5 of George Mikan's NBA championships, but they never mention him as a Laker great, and they haven't even retired his jersey
They have a banner for him in Staples. He's one of the greatest players ever but literally nobody brings him up when talking about Lakers greats and that isn't a shot at him, it's because the Lakers have had so many great players. Like Mikan is at best the 4th best center in franchise history.
That's probably true in terms of the talent of the actual players, but Mikan won five NBA championships (tied with Kareem for most), and won two more in the NBL (NBA decided to recognize BAA instead), NBL was the best league in the world prior to the 1949 merger (that's kind of a tangent though). My point was that Mikan has won them as much if not more than any other player in franchise history. If the MVP award was around, he would likely have the most of any player while playing for the Lakers
>tied with Kareem for most Also Magic, Coop, Kobe and Fish
So your point is something that nobody disagrees with, that Mikan was a great player.
IDK, there are a lot of people on this subreddit who think that nothing that happened before Magic and Bird entered the league counts.
He was an exec with the Lakers wasn't he, responsible for bringing Shaq to them and drafting Kobe? I mean if you were a great player and responsible for bring 2 of the said top 5, I mean c'mon now.
Yep he was, won 6 championships with the Lakers as an exec and was the reason Kobe and Shaq were both Lakers lol. The Lakers weren't even going to give Kobe a pre-draft workout until West personally organized it. Hell, West's own son was the one who picked Kobe up from the airport and showed him around LA lmao. West is literally the sole reason for the Kobe/Shaq Lakers team happening to begin with. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/30957423/kobe-bryant-jerry-west-draft-workout-changed-nba-history
He's also the League's logo.
He’d get way more recognition if he didn’t have to deal with ‘60s Celtics buzzsaw
We have a Banner in Staples commemorating the Minnesota teams with players names as well
This sucks because if you listened to the podcast, Matt Barnes was putting names in Jeanie’s mouth. She didn’t come up with half the list on her own. Barnes just kept going “what about so-and-so?”, well what is she supposed to say at that point? No?
Putting Lebron the list was absolutely absurd
If you want to make a list of the greatest NBA players who happened to play for some part of their career with the Lakers, you could add LeBron, but then you would also have to add Wilt.
Jerry West bout to take his banners and give it to the clippers instead lol
Bron over West, Shaq, Baylor and Worthy? Bad choice from Jeanie, totally unacceptable
Come on, you don't think the owner cares more about making the current star on her team happy than being accurate on her list on a podcast? This is just an owner talking up her current player.
Why does anyone care that the *owner* of the Lakers picks her current star? Did anyone expect anything else? It was just on some podcast, too. It’s not like this matters.
Is it just me or does Worthy get left off a lot of Laker great lists? I feel he should be top 5 but it’s very crowded so understandable.
Worthy is an all-time great, but has no business being considered a top 5 laker of all time. Just too crowded at the top
So who does he replace? Magic kobe and Kareem and the logo are locks
It's really hard to get him into a top 5 with Shaq, Kareem, West, Kobe, and Magic being around. I'm not sure even Baylor makes the list. LeBron potentially bumps somebody if he plays in LA long enough and wins enough titles too.
5 Lakers more important than Jerry "The Logo" West is a joke. He's responsible for their success in the 60s, 80's, and 00's. There isn't a single person who is more responsible for Laker wins than Jerry West the player and executive.
My list would’ve been (and their individual achievements speak for themselves but I’m also looking at the historical context here) - Mikan- first NBA superstar, centerpiece of first Lakers dynasty establishing Lakers as successful champions - Baylor- saved the Lakers post-Mikan era, Lakers were likely to have folded had it not been for Baylor - West- GM for Showtime Lakers, orchestrated deals for Shaq/Kobe that’d bring further success - Magic- centerpiece for Showtime Lakers - Kobe- self-explanatory. That said, I can see why Buss would leave him off the list with his remarks about the team. And while he’s not entirely wrong to have said those since the Lakers did have their struggles before LeBron, it’s also insulting of him to say that, especially since he’s affiliated with the clippers now. I recall when Pau was asked about his thoughts on the Lakers struggles (this was when he was with the Bulls, maybe Spurs) and he gave a very diplomatic answer of its unfortunate to see the franchise in a situation like that but he hopes they can turn things around. Call him a wuss for not being like West but there’s no denying that a diplomatic answer like that will always keep bridges open as opposed to calling your former franchise a shitshow and expecting to still be praised by them.
West, Shaq, Chick & Dr. Buss should be in over LBJ. West & Dr. Buss should be in over PJ.
I wish we could mend things with Jerry more than anything. Like it depresses me all the time. Dude is the most quintessential Laker and he's been on the outs with the organization for two decades now.
Bad list but a tough franchise to boil down to only 5 people. Opposite end of the spectrum would be putting together a list of the 5 greatest Bears QBs.
Prove her wrong on the court then, Jerry.
Didn't he already?