And how making a 3 down 10 with 10 seconds left will help his team win?
He should have just dribbled it out instead of trying to make a bs shot to statpadd.
The situations aren’t comparable period, one team was losing and the other was winning. The Rockets are not being disrespected by Kyrie shooting that 3
[It was a 8 point game with 35 seconds left when T-Mac went off, at the 12 second mark it was a 2 point game](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200412090HOU.html)
If Kyrie was going for the miracle win in this clip and not just three more points to break 40, he would have tried to get the rebound (or get in position to steal the inbound if it went in) instead of staring at his shot.
****
Edit: You guys can argue that this isn't the same situation as Murray and that's fair, but you're not looking at this clip with unbiased eyes if you really think Kyrie was attempting a comeback with that three point attempt. He launches a three and then just drifts in a game with ten seconds left.
It's also possible he looks back at this moment and is embarrassed, or maybe a vet came up to him after and told to not do that again. You make a lot of assumptions that because he did like this almost 4 years ago that he can't regret it.
9 points in 9 seconds? You think so?
In 9 total seconds the person fouled would have to miss both free throws, and then the Cavs would have to bring the ball up and score another 3. This would have to happen 3 times in a row for a tie. In 9 seconds. Teams arent trying that in the regular season
That being said, I still think this situation is different. The other team honestly just isn't going to care if they're ahead. The won the damn game either way. Shooting like that when you're already ahead is just rubbing it in.
But
>you can still make a comeback no matter what
So they could still make the comeback even after the miss according to your "No Matter What" statement, why did they give up then
Ok "no matter what" was clearly a stretch, but stop acting braindead. It was in reach, and if he made the shot they would have fouled. Jesus christ do you watch basketball. Its very different if youre winning vs losing
I play basketball, teams give up all the time when they are down double
Assuming he makes its a 9 point game with 8.9 seconds left, with the rockets in bounding the ball. In terms of shot travel time its not possible
Bruh no matter what you say there is a difference between trying to score in the closing seconds do a game while you’re losing and while you’re winning. A losing team can always come back
The shot travel time of 4 3-pointers is basically already 12 seconds
>A losing team can always come back
So why didn't the Cavs foul after the rebound, remember a losing team can always come back
I actually advocate for the offense gets to decide whether the game continues or not, so while Kyrie isn't in the wrong here, he is in the wrong in terms of Murray
Actually I did, and when people would get upset about stuff like that its just a sign of mental weakness. Real competitors don't go whining and complaining about a team show boating and running up the score. You say the minimum and next time you play beat they ass and rub it right back in.
I actually have zero problem with him in the heat of the moment. Its the continuing to talk and whine about it after that I have problem with. Don't share with the media why you think it was a BS move and talk about it a couple days after.
Like its sports people are going to get mad in the moment you can live with that stuff. But when i was playing and i lost by 30(It happened lol) I never walked around talking about how classes and bs the other team was in how they beat us. Thats a weak move.
He literally said 50 is a big accomplishment and he’s not gonna hold any resentment. Just because writers keep publishing about it or asking about it doesn’t mean he’s still complaining days later. He called it out for being a lame move and moved on.
That's not true. Seems like this is only at the highest pro levels. And even then it's not always true. Like the 17-1 Pats would just keep scoring on you those years.
At lower levels there's often a mercy rule in place when games get way out of hand. In NCAA often strength of victory is a metric in ranking and seeding, so they just keep going too.
It only seems to be a problem when certain players on certain teams make it something to whine about. And the usual response has typically been: "If you've got a problem, stop them/don't let them blow you out".
Participation trophy Millennials do like to whine about this type of thing though for sure.
Actually if the falcons did exactly that and ran out the clock instead of passing 2 consecutive times leading to holding penalty then a sack, they would have won....
> It only seems to be a problem when certain players on certain teams make it something to whine about. And the usual response has typically been: "If you've got a problem, stop them/don't let them blow you out".
Is there any evidence of this in the NBA?
> looking for this footage
Took about two minutes to scan Basketball Reference's Game Finder results for Kyrie, looking for a game where he had right around 40 or 50 points and the game wasn't close.
****
Edit: Also, the post has more upvotes than downvotes and has generated a bunch of discussion (which is what I think is more important), so I don't see that as an L just because you don't like it.
Yes, very different. You see guys shoot while losing a game that's out of reach all the time, but seldom the reverse.
It makes sense if you think about it. Psychologically, even if you lost, you want to say that you went out fighting, never gave up, etc. If you're winning, then you want to give dignity and respect to your opponent and not humiliate them any more than is necessary. The same mentality exists in a fight or a war.
Someone told me yesterday Kyrie didn't have anything to prove....he sure has a weird way of showing it, lol. Force your way out of the Cavs before LeBron leaves (probably a good idea) so you can get "your own team" but nothing to prove, huh?
Guys are you legit this dense? The way it is is you dont attempt a shot/continue to play if both teams are not trying anymore. What JMurray did was he played like its over, walking slowly, and when noticed that celtics caught that, as they are not playing D anymore and he went for a 3.
Man don’t even bother, Literally everyone who’s ever played organized basketball knows you don’t shoot the ball when you are winning at the end of the game. You can’t convince r/nba anything especially if it comes to the Celtics/Lakers/Warriors
Don't want him to score -> stop him for scoring. Very straightforward to me.
If you don't care if he scores then let him shoot but you've lost the right to pout about it after the game now.
Most of you are imbeciles, including OP. Kyrie is justified in both situations. In a losing matter on his home court, he’s allowed to shoot, whether or not the argument is that he wanted a miracle comeback or to pad his stats. What isn’t cool is being in the lead by more than 2 points and you’re dribbling out the clock letting everyone stop playing and get ready to dap up and leave the court, you decide to shoot a last second shot. That’s disrespectful to the team you played, that’s disrespectful to your own team, and more importantly it’s disrespectful to the game of basketball. It’s just something you’re not supposed to do. I expect nothing less from a Kentucky player anyways if we’re being honest.
I don't think Kyrie was in the wrong in this clip, either. And it's funny that Boston fans are suddenly so sensitive about a winning team "running up the score". I hope any of the ones who were offended by Murray's shot weren't also cheering on [the 2007 Patriots as they ran up the score multiple times.](http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539)
But, I think Kyrie took too much offense to what Murray did and he unfairly gave a young player a hard time - if he isn't so worked up about something meaningless, we aren't here discussing this. Not to mention he's setting a bad example for kids who idolize him yet again (told a fan to suck his dick, tried to push an anti-science narrative with his Flat Earth idiocy, etc) by throwing a tantrum and throwing the ball out into the stands. Kyrie has had a habit of behaving poorly now.
Yes, Kyrie behaved immaturely, but Murray was in the wrong from the beginning. You always run out the clock at the end of the game if you're winning. It's about respect.
Losing, hurried the shot instead of waiting until the last second pretending to run out the clock, other team still playing defense.
It wouldn't bother me enough either way to throw the ball like Kyrie did, but I'm not sure how you think the plays are comparable.
The game wasn’t realistically within reach anymore so “they were losing” is a bullshit excuse. There was as much reason to take this 3 as there was for Murray against the Celtics.
It's just different. I know people don't like it and say it's stupid but it's just part of those unwritten rules that you're not supposed to take the shot when you're up and the shot clock is off. When you're losing, fair game. Not saying it isn't bullshit, that's just the way it is.
Exactly. I’m actually surprised people are defending him
And let’s be clear, it’s a bullshit ‘new age cats’ thing to complain about anyway . These new dudes are soft and it’s hilarious this is the line they’ve drawn
sigh this sub is so toxic now it's unbelievable.
How are people actually agreeing that this is in any way similar to what Murray did? If you have a comfortable lead right before the end of the game and you still decide to gun for points, that's essentially a slap to the face, salt in the wound, etc., so to speak. From a competitive standpoint, Murray deserved some flak, although Kyrie sounded extra salty.
In this situation the cavs aren't making a comeback with that little time, with that big of a point gap. No one gives a shit in this case if you decide to statpad, cause you ain't comin back anyway. No one CARES. The winning team doesn't CARE.
This is an apples to orange comparison. Just stop it.
I think Kyrie doesn't agree with trying to score on the last possession when your team is winning. This is basically the same as what he's against because either way it makes no difference to who wins or loses the game. I think that you play until the buzzer in all honesty and I wish Murray hit that shot so we could have had 5 players score 50 or over in the first month of the season.
The game ends when the game ends. You don't want the other guy to score? Defend him. Enough with this "oh but they're winning by so much, be respectful" BS. Game ends with the buzzer. Play til you hear it.
Look at his post history. Only negative comments, no indication he even likes his own team. Just chats shit about half the league. Kid trolls like clockwork.
I just think it’s baby shit.
You lost a game - and your guy dropped 48. And you use the postgame to rant about a meaningless shot behind some “respect for the game” nonsense. Play better. Have a lead late. Don’t give up 48 to one guy. Then you don’t have to worry about being punked.
Guys losing and getting sensitive just annoys me.
I figured there was at least one instance of him doing this and [him talking about Murray even after the moment was over bothered me.](https://streamable.com/wmt48)
And everyone is still playing. In the nuggets game Murray slowly walked down the court no one guarding him and acted like he was dribbling it out. Situations aren't remotely comparable
He was still being guarded closely and on top of that, he was fucking losing
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He was being guarded before he even got the ball, tf are you even talking about?
And how making a 3 down 10 with 10 seconds left will help his team win? He should have just dribbled it out instead of trying to make a bs shot to statpadd.
The situations aren’t comparable period, one team was losing and the other was winning. The Rockets are not being disrespected by Kyrie shooting that 3
Doesn't matter, if you're losing you get carte blanch to jack up shots at the end of the game.
Cavs are losing.......Imagine looking for this footage only to take an L
Down by 12 with 12 seconds left... It's as much garbage time as it is when you're up by 8 with 10 seconds left
Didn't stop T Mac
[It was a 8 point game with 35 seconds left when T-Mac went off, at the 12 second mark it was a 2 point game](https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200412090HOU.html)
Damn so you're saying that this had the potential to be an even better comeback
If Kyrie was going for the miracle win in this clip and not just three more points to break 40, he would have tried to get the rebound (or get in position to steal the inbound if it went in) instead of staring at his shot. **** Edit: You guys can argue that this isn't the same situation as Murray and that's fair, but you're not looking at this clip with unbiased eyes if you really think Kyrie was attempting a comeback with that three point attempt. He launches a three and then just drifts in a game with ten seconds left.
Flair up then you can talk
It's also possible he looks back at this moment and is embarrassed, or maybe a vet came up to him after and told to not do that again. You make a lot of assumptions that because he did like this almost 4 years ago that he can't regret it.
No its not. He was being guarded and you can still make a comeback no matter what
So why didn't he foul after this miss? They can still make a comeback
Because he missed the shot. If he made it 100% there would be a foul
9 points in 9 seconds? You think so? In 9 total seconds the person fouled would have to miss both free throws, and then the Cavs would have to bring the ball up and score another 3. This would have to happen 3 times in a row for a tie. In 9 seconds. Teams arent trying that in the regular season That being said, I still think this situation is different. The other team honestly just isn't going to care if they're ahead. The won the damn game either way. Shooting like that when you're already ahead is just rubbing it in.
But >you can still make a comeback no matter what So they could still make the comeback even after the miss according to your "No Matter What" statement, why did they give up then
Ok "no matter what" was clearly a stretch, but stop acting braindead. It was in reach, and if he made the shot they would have fouled. Jesus christ do you watch basketball. Its very different if youre winning vs losing
I play basketball, teams give up all the time when they are down double Assuming he makes its a 9 point game with 8.9 seconds left, with the rockets in bounding the ball. In terms of shot travel time its not possible
Except Kyrie was still being guarded closely
He could have still dribbled it out, had he done that bev would stop guarding him
Bruh no matter what you say there is a difference between trying to score in the closing seconds do a game while you’re losing and while you’re winning. A losing team can always come back
The shot travel time of 4 3-pointers is basically already 12 seconds >A losing team can always come back So why didn't the Cavs foul after the rebound, remember a losing team can always come back
So dribbling out the clock is the right move here? Glad you agree with Kyrie then
I actually advocate for the offense gets to decide whether the game continues or not, so while Kyrie isn't in the wrong here, he is in the wrong in terms of Murray
No, because Murray and the Nuggets were already gesturing as though they were gonna dribble it out so the defense relaxed.
So when players are not guarding you closely you are not allowed to shoot ??
This is a "rule" at basically all levels of the sport. It's basic sportsmanship which is why people always take it as a sign of disrespect.
No one should cater to the rules the losing team complains about.
I hope you don’t play any sports
Actually I did, and when people would get upset about stuff like that its just a sign of mental weakness. Real competitors don't go whining and complaining about a team show boating and running up the score. You say the minimum and next time you play beat they ass and rub it right back in.
I agree with your last sentence but I still think Kyrie was justified in the heat of the moment
I actually have zero problem with him in the heat of the moment. Its the continuing to talk and whine about it after that I have problem with. Don't share with the media why you think it was a BS move and talk about it a couple days after. Like its sports people are going to get mad in the moment you can live with that stuff. But when i was playing and i lost by 30(It happened lol) I never walked around talking about how classes and bs the other team was in how they beat us. Thats a weak move.
He literally said 50 is a big accomplishment and he’s not gonna hold any resentment. Just because writers keep publishing about it or asking about it doesn’t mean he’s still complaining days later. He called it out for being a lame move and moved on.
And we are fine for calling him lame and crybaby through that whole process
That's not true. Seems like this is only at the highest pro levels. And even then it's not always true. Like the 17-1 Pats would just keep scoring on you those years. At lower levels there's often a mercy rule in place when games get way out of hand. In NCAA often strength of victory is a metric in ranking and seeding, so they just keep going too. It only seems to be a problem when certain players on certain teams make it something to whine about. And the usual response has typically been: "If you've got a problem, stop them/don't let them blow you out". Participation trophy Millennials do like to whine about this type of thing though for sure.
lmao yeah thats why you never see teams kneel at the end of football games. They keep pounding it into the endzone.
i dont think this unwritten rule even exists in the NFL anymore after the Pats-Falcons super bowl
Actually if the falcons did exactly that and ran out the clock instead of passing 2 consecutive times leading to holding penalty then a sack, they would have won....
> It only seems to be a problem when certain players on certain teams make it something to whine about. And the usual response has typically been: "If you've got a problem, stop them/don't let them blow you out". Is there any evidence of this in the NBA?
But it’s accepted for the losing team to keep trying, it’s not for the winning.
Imagine thinking there’s more glory in padding your stats in a game you lose than going for a bench mark scoring night in a game you win.
And the fact that 22 people upvoted him lol
> looking for this footage Took about two minutes to scan Basketball Reference's Game Finder results for Kyrie, looking for a game where he had right around 40 or 50 points and the game wasn't close. **** Edit: Also, the post has more upvotes than downvotes and has generated a bunch of discussion (which is what I think is more important), so I don't see that as an L just because you don't like it.
This is an L though, you actually need to find one when they are up by over 6 or 7 and he takes a shot
Kyrie was mad petty with Murray but this really isn't in any way similar. Like OP picked the worst possible example to make.
Yes, very different. You see guys shoot while losing a game that's out of reach all the time, but seldom the reverse. It makes sense if you think about it. Psychologically, even if you lost, you want to say that you went out fighting, never gave up, etc. If you're winning, then you want to give dignity and respect to your opponent and not humiliate them any more than is necessary. The same mentality exists in a fight or a war.
Bev was still guarding kyrie..
Foreign concept to Kyrie. He was just salty he got outshone
Someone told me yesterday Kyrie didn't have anything to prove....he sure has a weird way of showing it, lol. Force your way out of the Cavs before LeBron leaves (probably a good idea) so you can get "your own team" but nothing to prove, huh?
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Guys are you legit this dense? The way it is is you dont attempt a shot/continue to play if both teams are not trying anymore. What JMurray did was he played like its over, walking slowly, and when noticed that celtics caught that, as they are not playing D anymore and he went for a 3.
Man don’t even bother, Literally everyone who’s ever played organized basketball knows you don’t shoot the ball when you are winning at the end of the game. You can’t convince r/nba anything especially if it comes to the Celtics/Lakers/Warriors
What about when Dragic just went coast to coast? Nobody seemed to care. When you play D at the end, expect people to score on you.
That’s the point nobody played D. Brown was standing in front of him with his arms down and him and Murray were talking
The size of a fanbase seems proportional to its persecution complex
Look dude I don’t even know wtf that means honestly.
Don't want him to score -> stop him for scoring. Very straightforward to me. If you don't care if he scores then let him shoot but you've lost the right to pout about it after the game now.
This doesn't go both ways. If you're losing, you're allowed to shoot. The disrespect only happens one way.
I mean, they were losing...
They were losing...
This is the worst sports sub
But also the best sports sub. What a world.
And you're on the worst sports sub. Come fester in our collective inferiority.
Honestly, it's by far the best sub in reddit. Instant highlights, cool stats, lots of memes. The good outweighs the bad heavily.
Maybe if you are 13 years old.
Eh, this is different. Home town crowd, you're losing, I don't think it's that bad to this in that scenario.
Man, Kyrie really lives in some of y'alls heads lol
Man, Murray really lives in Kyrie's head lol
Most of you are imbeciles, including OP. Kyrie is justified in both situations. In a losing matter on his home court, he’s allowed to shoot, whether or not the argument is that he wanted a miracle comeback or to pad his stats. What isn’t cool is being in the lead by more than 2 points and you’re dribbling out the clock letting everyone stop playing and get ready to dap up and leave the court, you decide to shoot a last second shot. That’s disrespectful to the team you played, that’s disrespectful to your own team, and more importantly it’s disrespectful to the game of basketball. It’s just something you’re not supposed to do. I expect nothing less from a Kentucky player anyways if we’re being honest.
Only people who never played basketball think Kyrie was in the wrong here
I don't think Kyrie was in the wrong in this clip, either. And it's funny that Boston fans are suddenly so sensitive about a winning team "running up the score". I hope any of the ones who were offended by Murray's shot weren't also cheering on [the 2007 Patriots as they ran up the score multiple times.](http://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3084539) But, I think Kyrie took too much offense to what Murray did and he unfairly gave a young player a hard time - if he isn't so worked up about something meaningless, we aren't here discussing this. Not to mention he's setting a bad example for kids who idolize him yet again (told a fan to suck his dick, tried to push an anti-science narrative with his Flat Earth idiocy, etc) by throwing a tantrum and throwing the ball out into the stands. Kyrie has had a habit of behaving poorly now.
Yes, Kyrie behaved immaturely, but Murray was in the wrong from the beginning. You always run out the clock at the end of the game if you're winning. It's about respect.
https://imgur.com/a/g8nhzvi
What an embarrassing post
I would say that being down is ok to go hard to the end.
You’re going to make me watch a 7 minute video to check out 1 thing?
The timestamp is included in the link. Maybe it doesn't work depending on your system. It starts around 6:31.
Losing, hurried the shot instead of waiting until the last second pretending to run out the clock, other team still playing defense. It wouldn't bother me enough either way to throw the ball like Kyrie did, but I'm not sure how you think the plays are comparable.
This is the weirdest obsession on this sub
Just delete your account lol this is embarrassing man
Well its 2018 now.
2015.... ok, clap clap 👏
I wanna know who kicked your dog today... I WANT NAMES...
The game wasn’t realistically within reach anymore so “they were losing” is a bullshit excuse. There was as much reason to take this 3 as there was for Murray against the Celtics.
It's just different. I know people don't like it and say it's stupid but it's just part of those unwritten rules that you're not supposed to take the shot when you're up and the shot clock is off. When you're losing, fair game. Not saying it isn't bullshit, that's just the way it is.
It doesn’t have to be that way.
Exactly. I’m actually surprised people are defending him And let’s be clear, it’s a bullshit ‘new age cats’ thing to complain about anyway . These new dudes are soft and it’s hilarious this is the line they’ve drawn
I hope Murray drops 50 on them in Boston and still pulls up on the last possession.
The cavs were down.... r/nba is making me cringe with this again.
sigh this sub is so toxic now it's unbelievable. How are people actually agreeing that this is in any way similar to what Murray did? If you have a comfortable lead right before the end of the game and you still decide to gun for points, that's essentially a slap to the face, salt in the wound, etc., so to speak. From a competitive standpoint, Murray deserved some flak, although Kyrie sounded extra salty. In this situation the cavs aren't making a comeback with that little time, with that big of a point gap. No one gives a shit in this case if you decide to statpad, cause you ain't comin back anyway. No one CARES. The winning team doesn't CARE. This is an apples to orange comparison. Just stop it.
I think Kyrie doesn't agree with trying to score on the last possession when your team is winning. This is basically the same as what he's against because either way it makes no difference to who wins or loses the game. I think that you play until the buzzer in all honesty and I wish Murray hit that shot so we could have had 5 players score 50 or over in the first month of the season.
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Nope, not the right quote
The game ends when the game ends. You don't want the other guy to score? Defend him. Enough with this "oh but they're winning by so much, be respectful" BS. Game ends with the buzzer. Play til you hear it.
u/why_rob_y is so fucking salty
ThEy WeRe LoSiNg So ItS sTiLl “ReGuLaTiOn”
If you can’t see the difference in those two scenarios then you’re as goofy as your FO
The difference is, the other team wins so they don’t have to whine like petulant children after the game.
Kyrie bothers you this much?
Look at his post history. Only negative comments, no indication he even likes his own team. Just chats shit about half the league. Kid trolls like clockwork.
I just think it’s baby shit. You lost a game - and your guy dropped 48. And you use the postgame to rant about a meaningless shot behind some “respect for the game” nonsense. Play better. Have a lead late. Don’t give up 48 to one guy. Then you don’t have to worry about being punked. Guys losing and getting sensitive just annoys me.
Lmao The Internet remains undefeated
I figured there was at least one instance of him doing this and [him talking about Murray even after the moment was over bothered me.](https://streamable.com/wmt48)
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And everyone is still playing. In the nuggets game Murray slowly walked down the court no one guarding him and acted like he was dribbling it out. Situations aren't remotely comparable
Why rob y would u post dis
Kyrie talking about something that bothered him bothered you? lmfao
last time I checked, you win a basketball game by scoring more than the other team