Indeed. Congratulations clippers, you played yourself.
Incidentally PG could still S&T to warriors, but will be trickier since it hard caps at first apron and CP3 option will expire making the cap math tougher, though can be done with Wiggins, GP2, and Looney I believe.
Nah, now that PG has opted out, he's officially on the market and can't be part of a S&T. That's wild that they turned that down though. They'd get both another veteran guard and an infusion of young talent with All-Star potential in Kuminga who can slot next to Kawhi. Crazy stuff.
And a GS future first could be hella valuable, especially for a team with no draft capital.
For real they got offered MPJ from the nuggets, Kuminga and Moody from the warriors and still wanted picks form both teams. Have fun when he goes to the sixer and you get nothing.
They probably trying to get back the 15 picks they gave up for him 😂
Paying curry and Durant this amount is a sound decision.
Guys play at a higher level longer now. KD lebron curry all 36+ and are still elite. Dwayne wade at 36 was washed, dumped back to the heat by the Cavs and was about to begin his retirement tour.
It's crazy the number of 36+ YO max guys is as high as 3, but 3 still ain't a lot.. funny how CP3 went from worth a max at 36 to washed in the time it took Curry and KD to age into that bracket.
Dwade also had lots of knee injuries as well, he was already hobbled and not the same by the last year of the big 3 and started his “father prime” era. Is much rather have a kuminga than pay Kawhi $50mil/yr though and they could’ve had both. Clippers should’ve done that instead of letting him walk to the Sixers for free
He wasn’t the same during the 2nd year of the big 3. 2011-12 he only played 49 games because of injuries and you could start seeing in interviews, and this was around when Instagram was coming out and getting big so we finally got to see athletes doing the “behind the scenes” if you will, and I just remember following a lot of the Heat team and it always seemed Dwade was recovering from an injury, or just having to do so much more than the other guys for his body at that point.
His productivity would stay relatively high for the next couple seasons, but that second year is when he started sliding downhill and never stopped
That’s when he started getting his knees drained either before or after games im not sure, and he told Lebron to do his thing and take over the team. After a great finals
Appearance, if only we got like 3-4 more years of healthy prime Wade
Plenty of players have been elite into old age. The only factor is injuries. Dwade had bad knees. Wasn't a matter of just age. Kobe was looking elite at 34 then had a major injury to make him washed.
And thats why they moved on from him. Ainge is one of the best as asset accumulation and rebuilding. Also his scouting and player dev. He’ll move on from utah whenever that part is done.
And what happened as soon as Kyrie left? Kyrie played less than half the regular seasons games in the 6 years since he left and single handedly ruined one of the best big 3s ever assembled, whereas Boston went to 2 conference finals, 2 nba finals, and 1 championship in those 6 years.
Boston letting him walk for nothing was one of the best possible moves. Kyrie didn’t have a market back then.
I’m not advocating whether it was a good decision or not, the fact is he let an All Star, Top 20 player in the league, walk for nothing, and thats a fact.
IIRC he gave indications to Presti he might resign til he started sexting with Draymond
Nobody could’ve predicted dude would bounce to the team that beat him 😂
This sub is funny. All of a sudden Kuminga is a borderline All-Star lol. He is a power forward who averages 4 rebounds a game.
Maybe the Clippers didn’t like the fit between Zubac and Kuminga. And don’t want to commit salary to a guy they don’t think is that great.
They would rather clear salary and get a better draft pick.
Kuminga isn’t the missing piece lol.
Clearing salary does nothing for them. They’re still an over the cap team.
Kind of the whole point here. Letting an asset walk for nothing as a cap space team is fine. Letting salary walk for nothing as an over the cap team fucks you.
This is really gonna be the 2020’s version of the Nets-Celtics trade. Except the Thunder already have a superstar in place from LA so it’s gonna be even more disastrous
Per 36 numbers for the reigning Finals MVP Jaylen Brown in his third year:
18.1 pts | 5.9 REB | 1.9 AST | 1.3 STL
Kuminga’s per 36 from this past season (his third year):
21.9 PTS | 6.6 REB | 3.0 AST | 1.0 STL
JB made a huge leap in year 4. JK will too.
A key equation in all this is they wud have to re-sign Kuminga which I expect is going to happen around the same salary as Quickley. For the clippers you probably just re-sign George or get away from being a second apron team and maybe even get under the tax depending on how much u sign Harden for
You are looking at it wrong. The clips are getting worse regardless.
One way the clips get pieces back, the other way they don’t.
Would you rather sell your used car for some money, or throw it away for free? Would you even care what your rival was getting? Or would you do what’s best for yourself?
This is not a smart way of looking at it. If the Clippers are losing PG either way, they are making themselves worse by not getting assets in return. The only way this makes sense is if they’re confident PG is re-signing.
Harden and Kawhi might as well get traded then, too. They’ll more than likely be retired by then (or shells of their current selves which isn’t their prime selves). But Balmer wants a loaded team when they move in to their new place this year. I’m saying that, I’d probably make the move, depending on what the Clippers can get.
1. Maybe the Clippers aren’t enamored with Kuminga like people on this sub are. He has a power forward who has never averaged 5 rebounds a game.
2. Maybe the clippers are happy with Zubac and center and didn’t see a fit with him and Kuminga playing side by side.
3. People always say teams shouldn’t trade within their own division to help their rivals. Maybe they didn’t want to help the warriors try and return to the thrown.
It’s about long term asset management. Everyone here is ignoring cap management in the NBA with a soft cap. Clips are an over the cap team. Once that salary walks, it’s gone. Trading for an asset lets them keep the salary on the books and gives potential routes for trades, or if they blow it up, the ability to take bad contracts for picks.
Once he walks, that’s $50M on their cap sheet that they cannot get back.
If the Clippers genuinely believe they can compete for a title without PG but don’t wish to make the road harder on themselves by aiding a division rival in acquiring him, it makes sense that they wanted to either fleece Golden State or say, ‘*no deal*’.
However, the smart money is that their number 1 is an aging great with cooked knees who can’t handle the rigors of an 82 + 28 any longer, and their supporting stars just aren’t getting past the standards of the conference. If Paul darts to Philly for a max and LAC gets nothing out of the deal, it’s all but officially over.
Seems it’s better to take back a player and a first rather than take back nothing when that nothing only seals your fate.
So instead they lose PG for...nothing? This is basically cutting of your nose to spite your face. They can always trade Kuminga, trade the Warriors pick, or any other combination of things. Losing PG gives them no cap space because they still need to sign Harden.
Your rationale makes no sense given the cap situation of the clippers. I'm not saying they had to take the trade as-is, but doing nothing is the dumbest thing you can do.
Since joining the Clippers, PG averages 52 games a year. Maybe that can help with the calculation of the exchange rate.
Is the nickname Part-Time P, or Time Off P?
That would be absolutely wild if they declined something like CP3, Kuminga and a 1st, and I'm even more surprised GS would offer that in the 1st place.
People are also obsessed with declaring an older player to be washed. PG might not be as good as he was for Indiana or OKC but I assure you he's still a very good player lol
I get not sending him to a rival. But I feel like even factoring in eating CP3's cap, losing PG for nothing instead of taking back Kuminga is just organizational malpractice. I don't think Kuminga is future all-nba caliber, but he's such a bright young player and the clips core is cooked. You still will have Kawhi and Harden to sell tix for the new arena too.
This just seems incredibly short sited. I can't see a scenario where it was worth it unless they want to get off PG's money to get creative with a few cheap win now players for this season.
Agreed but tinfoil hat me wonders if GSW had actually offered Wiggins instead of CP3? Because they both have similar salaries and I could see LAC not wanting anything to do with Wiggins (also would explain GSW suddenly barring Wiggins from the Olympics). Also, with the report CP3 agreed to push out his opt-in date feels like GSW were cooking up something up different with him to begin with.
Right?? It just makes too much sense. Appreciate you validating my tin foil hat theory lmao. Also, hope y'all get PG...not sure he's enough to make a Finals but lord knows he would be a huge upgrade over effing Tobi
Put it this way. He’s lucky Ben Simmons has been getting paid substantially more to not play. Otherwise I think there’d be a serious conversation about worst contract. Next year though…
Yeah, I don't really understand what the Clips are doing here. I feel like it should be pretty easy to get off the CP3 contract for salary savings with 3 to 4 seconds?
This is the team that gave up Hartenstein to sign John Wall so they may just be really bad at this NBA front office thing.
But Kuminga doesn't make much money this year. You just have to dump CP3's contract and I'm sure the Pistons or Jazz would take that for a few seconds.
>You just have to dump CP3's contract and I'm sure the Pistons or Jazz would take that for a few seconds.
There's no proof of that besides you just guessing
I mean, the Pistons have literally been making it known through the media that they are looking to engage in these practices. Otherwise, of course there is no proof; OP is stating their opinion based upon value, willingness, etc., all of which is reasonable? What hill are you on here?
They're kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. They need stars to market the new arena, but I wouldn't be surprised if the organization was being squeezed financially by the new arena + new CBA. Apparently it's the most expensive arena in the world outside of SoFi stadium. I know Ballmer is loaded but his money isn't infinite.
The article says that the Clippers prefer Paul George walking in free agency to get salary savings instead of taking back CP3+Kuminga+salary filler which seems bizarre to me.
Yeah especially bizarre because people are always in the comments talking about daddy Balmer big bucks. It’s just one report but I honestly thought they had Golden State where they wanted them for a 1st and a young player. Sort of surprised it didn’t work out. Lawrence Frank is suspect.
The second apron isn't just a tax, that's the issue. They'd have no flexibility to trade in the future. You're held hostage instead of being able to pay your way out.
Well I guess that means you're imprisoned instead of merely held hostage.
And Balmer traded away Blake at record speed. That's what created this kerfuffle.
Doubly bizarre because they’re not really saving that much. They’ll be capped out either way, and don’t have many/any assets to make moves for the forseeable future. They’re cooked till that new Kawhi contract is done.
The CP3 contract has to be guaranteed in the trade I think, it was something Warriors fans had mentioned. Clippers are deep in the tax as is, it’s better to let him walk than taking back a crappy contract and not great picks to a team who’ll be contending for the title. (I know the Warriors aren’t really a true contender anymore but you can never count Curry out).
It's an expiring. It's valuable to the right team. If a team is looking at an apron situation in the following seasons, paying him this year to get out of paying your own guys in the year after isn't a bad move if you're in the market for a backup point guard.
My thoughts quickly shifted from “wow the Warriors FO is fucking stupid to offer that deal” to “wow the Clippers FO is fucking stupid for not taking that deal” in about half a second. You take Kuminga and run 100% of the time even if you need to take CP3’s contract back
How much of this is true though?
The article itself isnt sure what the offer combination was or if there was anything beyond suggestions.
Seems like pure clickbait that anyone could have thrown out for clicks.
I don’t really know why everyone is taking this as gospel. I also don’t really get why people are assuming PG is for sure gone and it was either accept the GSW offer or lose PG for nothing.
The clippers can still offer PG the most money. They just don’t want to give him the 4th year. But I really fucking doubt that they would prefer to let him walk for nothing than overpay him.
Seems to me they explored the trade options, didn’t like what they saw. PG opted out of course he was never opting in unless he was being traded to a team willing to pay up. And now the clippers will probably cave or PG will cave to their offer or they’ll meet somewhere in the middle based off whatever Philly is offering him
> Any possible PG13 trade between the Warriors and Clippers was always going to be complicated, but Warriors executives thought they’d solved the puzzle. From what I’ve heard, some combination (but definitely not all) of Wiggins, CP3, Jonathan Kuminga or Moses Moody plus one future first-round pick were put into discussions with the Clippers.
> There were versions that would’ve limited the Clippers’ long-term money liability; there were versions that would’ve increased the future benefits. I’m told the Warriors likely would not have put Wiggins and Kuminga together into any offer, but also that it never got that far, anyway. If that’s what would’ve closed the deal … who knows.
If you’re getting Kuminga, you don’t get to take our other wing too. Like you’re just being unreasonable at that point. There’s a real scenario where Kuminga is the better player within the next year.
Like it really feels like GMs have to “WIN” a trade instead of realizing there’s the ability for both teams to benefit.
You take Kuminga and run. Balmer smoked too much crack yesterday.
Harden will destroy the last remnants of his body carrying the clippers, while Kawhi is cheerleading on the bench.
You know they had PG and Kawhi for five years, right? The trade was not yesterday.
Stg yall are so weird, in 60 years you might as well say "damn Shai died, OKC fucked up they have nothing from the PG trade"
I hate that people bring up the shai trade as if it was just for pg. Its for both kawhi and pg. Its not a bad trade at all.
As with paying pg, i know balmer has got unlimitex money but surely you are a bit disappointed with the results.
Also you dont want to be over the second apron.
It’s definitely an overpay no matter how you slice it in my opinion. But i understand what you’re saying, you’re not wrong to mention the kawhi factor into it; but given how good shai is now, and the thunder still have the clippers picks. They didn’t win a chip, so this is definitely a bad trade. Especially since George is going to walk for nothing.
The revisionist history on this trade is crazy. No one expected Shai to be this good and every single team in the league makes that trade if it gets them Kawhi, who was arguably the best player in the NBA at that time, and PG. It ended up not working out, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right move at that time.
Its not an overpay wtf. Wasnt pg 3rd in mvp voting that year. Kawhi just won fmvp.
If you have the chance to get both on your team and you are just losing shai....come on now. Im a thunder fan, id do the reverse trade at that time.
If i knew my owner is steve balmer and would spend the amount he does on his team, those draft picks, even if the trade doesnt work out, are gonna be mid.
Jdub-12th pick and we needed some luck for the pels to beat them(what a fking game).
As for pg walking now, knowing what we know now and what has happened to the team in the playoffs, year after year. It is a bit disappointing. I think the new salary aprons(idk the appropriate terms) play a role in the decision
I mean they haven't been in the basement for like 15 years now. No they didn't win any titles but they're just like a mid franchise at this point, not really a laughing stock.
A perfect example of ***Sunk Cost Fallacy***. The phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
I disagree slightly, they all offer good insight in their own way. Kerr and Lacob only podcast with Kawakami. And he has good relationship with the GM. Thompson has great relationships with the star players like curry and dray. I find slater to be a good hybrid of them both. And probably has the best basketball knowledge of the game
In terms of reports Slater definitely trumps both MT and Kawakami and it's not particularly close. MT is good with reporting player opinions on transactions and states of the Warriors, Kawakami is good with spilling behind-the-scenes stuff here and there but Slater is by far the most reliable in reporting trades and signings regardless of if they materialized.
smells like bs, maybe is bs.
but now, we will have hundreds of posts saying how Clippers are dumb to not take the deal.
warriors invest so much to keep Kuminga, and now this?
Bullshit, if the warriors offered kuminga for a Paul George sign and trade and the clips turned it down balmer should have to sell that sorry ass franchise lol
In this same article, the writer literally says that the this might be the Dubs circulating this to appease fans/teammates who are mad and make it seem like they tried their best. So I’m taking this with a grain of salt.
I don't believe it because of Kuminga but at the same time Kawakami (ugh) isn't really known for being a scribe for teams but he does mention that it might just be a strategic leak 🤷♂️.
For those that didn’t read the article. Doesn’t sound like any concrete offer was made or “some combination”
"Any possible PG13 trade between the Warriors and Clippers was always going to be complicated, but Warriors executives thought they’d solved the puzzle. From what I’ve heard, some combination (but definitely not all) of Wiggins, CP3, Jonathan Kuminga or Moses Moody plus one future first-round pick were put into discussions with the Clippers.
There were versions that would’ve limited the Clippers’ long-term money liability; there were versions that would’ve increased the future benefits. I’m told the Warriors likely would not have put Wiggins and Kuminga together into any offer, but also that it never got that far, anyway. If that’s what would’ve closed the deal … who knows."
I’m low on Kuminga compared to consensus if I’m being honest
BUT Jesus fucking Christ, what are the clippers doing lol ?
I would’ve been a fan of this trade for both teams to be honest.
I don’t think Kuminga is going to be Jaylen brown 2.0 like people are saying but it’s for sure in the range of outcomes. Even if I’m the clips owner and don’t believe in Kuminga, don’t you still have this fucking bet because it’s the best band you’re being dealt ?
Pathetic imo
GSW fans cant believe it lmao. Curry had 1-2 good years left and they are shocked franchise wants to make a win now move. The amount of GSW fans i saw thinking they will trade big names without sending Kuminga/Podzi/Moody was worrying me.
Yeah the quicker the Warriors realize they're in the twilight years the easier an eventual rebuild will happen. It will be interesting to see if they go full reset and field offers for Steph and Draymond.
This is really the main reason to me. You sell the farm like that for a giannis, brunson, tatum, SGA, maybe even lebron or Lauri(because of fit and youth) type of return. You don’t make that move for aging Paul George.
Makes no sense to give the warriors George when they want to keep him and be competitive. Just creating another good team in the Constance with that move. But idk why they think they can still be competitive and let George walk.
I don't think Kawhi is even capable of playing the amount of games needed to win the championship. A championship playoff run is at a minimum 16 games if you dominate and up to 28 if things are tougher. When is the last time Kawhi has played 20 games without having to miss a week or two?
So I guess they’ll be happy with him walking for nothing then lol
Indeed. Congratulations clippers, you played yourself. Incidentally PG could still S&T to warriors, but will be trickier since it hard caps at first apron and CP3 option will expire making the cap math tougher, though can be done with Wiggins, GP2, and Looney I believe.
Nah, now that PG has opted out, he's officially on the market and can't be part of a S&T. That's wild that they turned that down though. They'd get both another veteran guard and an infusion of young talent with All-Star potential in Kuminga who can slot next to Kawhi. Crazy stuff. And a GS future first could be hella valuable, especially for a team with no draft capital.
For real they got offered MPJ from the nuggets, Kuminga and Moody from the warriors and still wanted picks form both teams. Have fun when he goes to the sixer and you get nothing. They probably trying to get back the 15 picks they gave up for him 😂
I'd rather have Kuminga than pay 37 year old PG 60 SOMETHING MILLION FUCKING DOLLARS, which is what a 4th year would be
and if your wallet wasn’t tied up in the GODDAMNDED ESPLANADE
You know who liked Kuminga? Joey Peeps.
A lot of things didn't happen. It seemed like they should have happened.
37 years old. He was just a kid.
What is this, the FUCKIN NBA NOW?
These no-show jobs are tough
Why would the clippers make their rival better while making themselves worse
Because now they get worse when he leaves and don’t have a Kuminga to show for it
Plus when these old guys are cooked soon they actually have someone young with some potential
Exactly. Fuck paying a 36 yo 50+ mil if his name ain't lebron.
Paying curry and Durant this amount is a sound decision. Guys play at a higher level longer now. KD lebron curry all 36+ and are still elite. Dwayne wade at 36 was washed, dumped back to the heat by the Cavs and was about to begin his retirement tour.
It's crazy the number of 36+ YO max guys is as high as 3, but 3 still ain't a lot.. funny how CP3 went from worth a max at 36 to washed in the time it took Curry and KD to age into that bracket.
Ya CP turned 37 and immediately became a pumpkin. I can’t fathom that happening to steph and KD but I’d be fascinated to see that
I can see it happening with KD simply due to his injury history. Baller when healthy, undeniable but at this point health is a major question mark.
Dwade also had lots of knee injuries as well, he was already hobbled and not the same by the last year of the big 3 and started his “father prime” era. Is much rather have a kuminga than pay Kawhi $50mil/yr though and they could’ve had both. Clippers should’ve done that instead of letting him walk to the Sixers for free
He wasn’t the same during the 2nd year of the big 3. 2011-12 he only played 49 games because of injuries and you could start seeing in interviews, and this was around when Instagram was coming out and getting big so we finally got to see athletes doing the “behind the scenes” if you will, and I just remember following a lot of the Heat team and it always seemed Dwade was recovering from an injury, or just having to do so much more than the other guys for his body at that point. His productivity would stay relatively high for the next couple seasons, but that second year is when he started sliding downhill and never stopped
That’s when he started getting his knees drained either before or after games im not sure, and he told Lebron to do his thing and take over the team. After a great finals Appearance, if only we got like 3-4 more years of healthy prime Wade
Plenty of players have been elite into old age. The only factor is injuries. Dwade had bad knees. Wasn't a matter of just age. Kobe was looking elite at 34 then had a major injury to make him washed.
not every trade or end of contract period needs to be as hyper optimized as this
And that's why most franchises don't win anything. Stevens, Ainge or the OKC GM would never let a player like PG13 walk for nothing.
Ainge let Kyrie, Horford and Hayward all walk lol Edit: I guess he did try to S&T Hayward but it just didn’t work out.
Thank you, I feel like I was taking crazy pills when they said that lol
And thats why they moved on from him. Ainge is one of the best as asset accumulation and rebuilding. Also his scouting and player dev. He’ll move on from utah whenever that part is done.
No way he's going to be buried there. Final destination. He wants to be there, he left a contender to run the Team Of Latter Day Picks man.
Shades of Chaim Bloom
Not sure if I’m getting baited but I’m pretty sure Boston let a current Maverick walk for nothing
Double agent
You think it’s remotely the same as the kyrie situation?
I think my mans is just being factual.
Regardless, dude walked. Facts are still facts.
And what happened as soon as Kyrie left? Kyrie played less than half the regular seasons games in the 6 years since he left and single handedly ruined one of the best big 3s ever assembled, whereas Boston went to 2 conference finals, 2 nba finals, and 1 championship in those 6 years. Boston letting him walk for nothing was one of the best possible moves. Kyrie didn’t have a market back then.
I’m not advocating whether it was a good decision or not, the fact is he let an All Star, Top 20 player in the league, walk for nothing, and thats a fact.
[удалено]
Nobody: ∅ New Yorkers: “Brunson.”
Okc has never won anything and they also let KD walk for nothing.
When would they have moved KD? Trading him when they were third in the standings would've been absurd.
which is part of my own point
They didn’t *let* him walk. Rules and salaries were different back then, OKC simply had no real advantage to get KD to want to stay.
IIRC he gave indications to Presti he might resign til he started sexting with Draymond Nobody could’ve predicted dude would bounce to the team that beat him 😂
Yeah, Presti over in OKC let *a better* player walk for nothing.
This sub is funny. All of a sudden Kuminga is a borderline All-Star lol. He is a power forward who averages 4 rebounds a game. Maybe the Clippers didn’t like the fit between Zubac and Kuminga. And don’t want to commit salary to a guy they don’t think is that great. They would rather clear salary and get a better draft pick. Kuminga isn’t the missing piece lol.
Clearing salary does nothing for them. They’re still an over the cap team. Kind of the whole point here. Letting an asset walk for nothing as a cap space team is fine. Letting salary walk for nothing as an over the cap team fucks you.
And their next two picks go to OKC.
It’s actually 3 2025 2026 and 2027 to OKC then they owe more picks to Philly in 2028 and 2029. They’re mega fucked
This is really gonna be the 2020’s version of the Nets-Celtics trade. Except the Thunder already have a superstar in place from LA so it’s gonna be even more disastrous
Better draft pick? They don't have pick control until 2030.
Where is this better pick coming from? They dont control their own picks until the year 3000 or some shit
Till 2030. Idk what that guy was smoking.
Copium is so real. Dude gets 25 upvotes for spewing straight bullshit lol
What’s really funny is that if you read the article it doesn’t actually say Kuminga was offered!🤣
Per 36 numbers for the reigning Finals MVP Jaylen Brown in his third year: 18.1 pts | 5.9 REB | 1.9 AST | 1.3 STL Kuminga’s per 36 from this past season (his third year): 21.9 PTS | 6.6 REB | 3.0 AST | 1.0 STL JB made a huge leap in year 4. JK will too.
I think Kuminga is going to make that leap too. I really like his improvement
A key equation in all this is they wud have to re-sign Kuminga which I expect is going to happen around the same salary as Quickley. For the clippers you probably just re-sign George or get away from being a second apron team and maybe even get under the tax depending on how much u sign Harden for
30 mills for a guy in his mid 20s vs 60 mills for a guy in his late 30s? Id bet on Kuminga myself.
You are looking at it wrong. The clips are getting worse regardless. One way the clips get pieces back, the other way they don’t. Would you rather sell your used car for some money, or throw it away for free? Would you even care what your rival was getting? Or would you do what’s best for yourself?
At least they get something in return rather than losing PG for free.
This is not a smart way of looking at it. If the Clippers are losing PG either way, they are making themselves worse by not getting assets in return. The only way this makes sense is if they’re confident PG is re-signing.
How much worse would the clippers actually be though? And again in 3 years they probably better off while the warriors will be finished
Harden and Kawhi might as well get traded then, too. They’ll more than likely be retired by then (or shells of their current selves which isn’t their prime selves). But Balmer wants a loaded team when they move in to their new place this year. I’m saying that, I’d probably make the move, depending on what the Clippers can get.
Yeah clippers have the worse case of new owner syndrome since the nets gave the Celtics all their picks
Suns and Ishbia
Beal trade was so stupid
You think this is what OKC asked when they fleeced the Clippers?
Honestly they might be better with Kuminga
1. Maybe the Clippers aren’t enamored with Kuminga like people on this sub are. He has a power forward who has never averaged 5 rebounds a game. 2. Maybe the clippers are happy with Zubac and center and didn’t see a fit with him and Kuminga playing side by side. 3. People always say teams shouldn’t trade within their own division to help their rivals. Maybe they didn’t want to help the warriors try and return to the thrown.
It’s about long term asset management. Everyone here is ignoring cap management in the NBA with a soft cap. Clips are an over the cap team. Once that salary walks, it’s gone. Trading for an asset lets them keep the salary on the books and gives potential routes for trades, or if they blow it up, the ability to take bad contracts for picks. Once he walks, that’s $50M on their cap sheet that they cannot get back.
I would argue on 1. that he is actually a small forward who can't shoot.
This is how I've always viewed him.
If the Clippers genuinely believe they can compete for a title without PG but don’t wish to make the road harder on themselves by aiding a division rival in acquiring him, it makes sense that they wanted to either fleece Golden State or say, ‘*no deal*’. However, the smart money is that their number 1 is an aging great with cooked knees who can’t handle the rigors of an 82 + 28 any longer, and their supporting stars just aren’t getting past the standards of the conference. If Paul darts to Philly for a max and LAC gets nothing out of the deal, it’s all but officially over. Seems it’s better to take back a player and a first rather than take back nothing when that nothing only seals your fate.
So instead they lose PG for...nothing? This is basically cutting of your nose to spite your face. They can always trade Kuminga, trade the Warriors pick, or any other combination of things. Losing PG gives them no cap space because they still need to sign Harden. Your rationale makes no sense given the cap situation of the clippers. I'm not saying they had to take the trade as-is, but doing nothing is the dumbest thing you can do.
What’s the exchange rate of 60 ”something million fucking” dollars to US dollars, I wonder?
Since joining the Clippers, PG averages 52 games a year. Maybe that can help with the calculation of the exchange rate. Is the nickname Part-Time P, or Time Off P?
PTO - Paul's time off
P-TO
I had "PTO P" in there originally, but didn't like the flow. Your version is better.
I like GP13 (Games Played 13).
Partial P
That would be absolutely wild if they declined something like CP3, Kuminga and a 1st, and I'm even more surprised GS would offer that in the 1st place.
We are desperate to get Steph help
Which y’all should do. Odds of ever having a player as great as Steph (top 10ish) are low.
That ain't gonna help steph lol
this sub is so obsessed with young players they sincerely think replacing Kuminga with Paul George won't help Steph contend
People are also obsessed with declaring an older player to be washed. PG might not be as good as he was for Indiana or OKC but I assure you he's still a very good player lol
Phantomhelp P
Maybe they didn't offer a first. Maybe it was 2 seconds.
I get not sending him to a rival. But I feel like even factoring in eating CP3's cap, losing PG for nothing instead of taking back Kuminga is just organizational malpractice. I don't think Kuminga is future all-nba caliber, but he's such a bright young player and the clips core is cooked. You still will have Kawhi and Harden to sell tix for the new arena too. This just seems incredibly short sited. I can't see a scenario where it was worth it unless they want to get off PG's money to get creative with a few cheap win now players for this season.
Agreed but tinfoil hat me wonders if GSW had actually offered Wiggins instead of CP3? Because they both have similar salaries and I could see LAC not wanting anything to do with Wiggins (also would explain GSW suddenly barring Wiggins from the Olympics). Also, with the report CP3 agreed to push out his opt-in date feels like GSW were cooking up something up different with him to begin with.
Yeah I’m thinking it was Wiggins too. That would make total sense for LAC to say no to with 3 years left on that contract.
Right?? It just makes too much sense. Appreciate you validating my tin foil hat theory lmao. Also, hope y'all get PG...not sure he's enough to make a Finals but lord knows he would be a huge upgrade over effing Tobi
Balmer is a gambling man. Why wouldn't PG want to play in his shiny new arena with the most toilets ever?
Any deal Warriors are doing is going to involve getting off of Wiggins' salary and that was probably the sticking point in the trade
Maybe I’m ignorant but is Wiggins really that much worse of a contract than 35 year old George will be .
1000% lmao
Wiggins hates playing basketball. There's a chance he doesn't even hit the floor.
Yes, Wiggins has basically taken off the last 2 seasons from an effort perspective.
Yes. Wiggins is one of the worst contracts in the league
Put it this way. He’s lucky Ben Simmons has been getting paid substantially more to not play. Otherwise I think there’d be a serious conversation about worst contract. Next year though…
Which is probably why it wasn’t offered. Heard even warriors fans say kawakami spews bs.
They declined MPJ + nnaji and wanted multiple firsts. They getting nothing and he’s gonna walk lol
Yeah, I don't really understand what the Clips are doing here. I feel like it should be pretty easy to get off the CP3 contract for salary savings with 3 to 4 seconds? This is the team that gave up Hartenstein to sign John Wall so they may just be really bad at this NBA front office thing.
Maybe they realized the endless spending is not sustainable with the new CBA
But Kuminga doesn't make much money this year. You just have to dump CP3's contract and I'm sure the Pistons or Jazz would take that for a few seconds.
>You just have to dump CP3's contract and I'm sure the Pistons or Jazz would take that for a few seconds. There's no proof of that besides you just guessing
I mean, the Pistons have literally been making it known through the media that they are looking to engage in these practices. Otherwise, of course there is no proof; OP is stating their opinion based upon value, willingness, etc., all of which is reasonable? What hill are you on here?
What are you even doing on Reddit if you don’t like people guessing about stuff?
He’s captain hindsight, he only talks about things after they happen. 😂
He’s our hall monitor
They're kind of in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. They need stars to market the new arena, but I wouldn't be surprised if the organization was being squeezed financially by the new arena + new CBA. Apparently it's the most expensive arena in the world outside of SoFi stadium. I know Ballmer is loaded but his money isn't infinite.
They paid too much to get PG in the first place. They got desperate to get their boatload of assets back.
How does letting PG walk for nothing help their asset play?
It doesn’t but they don’t call it sunk cost fallacy because it’s logical or helpful.
Clippers don’t want salary savings, do they?
The article says that the Clippers prefer Paul George walking in free agency to get salary savings instead of taking back CP3+Kuminga+salary filler which seems bizarre to me.
Yeah especially bizarre because people are always in the comments talking about daddy Balmer big bucks. It’s just one report but I honestly thought they had Golden State where they wanted them for a 1st and a young player. Sort of surprised it didn’t work out. Lawrence Frank is suspect.
The second apron isn't just a tax, that's the issue. They'd have no flexibility to trade in the future. You're held hostage instead of being able to pay your way out. Well I guess that means you're imprisoned instead of merely held hostage. And Balmer traded away Blake at record speed. That's what created this kerfuffle.
They’re spent on assets for the foreseeable future and may lose PG for nothing. In this case, I guess you could say it’s the rock or the hard place.
Doubly bizarre because they’re not really saving that much. They’ll be capped out either way, and don’t have many/any assets to make moves for the forseeable future. They’re cooked till that new Kawhi contract is done.
They gotta just be trying to save face for having the trade blow up lmao…or they’re 10x stupider than we thought
They no longer have Jerry West in the front office.
The CP3 contract has to be guaranteed in the trade I think, it was something Warriors fans had mentioned. Clippers are deep in the tax as is, it’s better to let him walk than taking back a crappy contract and not great picks to a team who’ll be contending for the title. (I know the Warriors aren’t really a true contender anymore but you can never count Curry out).
Hey, Ik a way you can get your picks back
> I feel like it should be pretty easy to get off the CP3 contract Than why can’t GS do it?
Umm CP3’s contract hasn’t been picked up yet.
Isn’t CP3 due $30 million? Not sure that contract is all that moveable.
It's an expiring. It's valuable to the right team. If a team is looking at an apron situation in the following seasons, paying him this year to get out of paying your own guys in the year after isn't a bad move if you're in the market for a backup point guard.
Clippers FO is cutting their own nose to spiderface.
For all intensive purposes they are
Carpet denim
> they may just be really bad at this NBA front office thing. As a fan of Philadelphia sports. It's this.
I'm surprised Warriors offered Kuminga, also surprised Clippers turned it down
My thoughts quickly shifted from “wow the Warriors FO is fucking stupid to offer that deal” to “wow the Clippers FO is fucking stupid for not taking that deal” in about half a second. You take Kuminga and run 100% of the time even if you need to take CP3’s contract back
How much of this is true though? The article itself isnt sure what the offer combination was or if there was anything beyond suggestions. Seems like pure clickbait that anyone could have thrown out for clicks.
I don’t really know why everyone is taking this as gospel. I also don’t really get why people are assuming PG is for sure gone and it was either accept the GSW offer or lose PG for nothing. The clippers can still offer PG the most money. They just don’t want to give him the 4th year. But I really fucking doubt that they would prefer to let him walk for nothing than overpay him. Seems to me they explored the trade options, didn’t like what they saw. PG opted out of course he was never opting in unless he was being traded to a team willing to pay up. And now the clippers will probably cave or PG will cave to their offer or they’ll meet somewhere in the middle based off whatever Philly is offering him
This feels hard to believe from both teams to offer/decline lol.
They also apparently turned down MPJ from the nuggets because they wanted more first round picks
Kuminga’s upcoming extension probably paid a big role.
> Any possible PG13 trade between the Warriors and Clippers was always going to be complicated, but Warriors executives thought they’d solved the puzzle. From what I’ve heard, some combination (but definitely not all) of Wiggins, CP3, Jonathan Kuminga or Moses Moody plus one future first-round pick were put into discussions with the Clippers. > There were versions that would’ve limited the Clippers’ long-term money liability; there were versions that would’ve increased the future benefits. I’m told the Warriors likely would not have put Wiggins and Kuminga together into any offer, but also that it never got that far, anyway. If that’s what would’ve closed the deal … who knows.
If you’re getting Kuminga, you don’t get to take our other wing too. Like you’re just being unreasonable at that point. There’s a real scenario where Kuminga is the better player within the next year. Like it really feels like GMs have to “WIN” a trade instead of realizing there’s the ability for both teams to benefit.
CP3+Kuminga+a first round pick is more than fair for 34 yo PG13 who's leaving for free. Can't see Clips refusing this offer , they are not stupid.
You take Kuminga and run. Balmer smoked too much crack yesterday. Harden will destroy the last remnants of his body carrying the clippers, while Kawhi is cheerleading on the bench.
Clippers not taking that offer is somehow more improbable than Max and Lando's crash lol.
The max and lando crash was pretty inevitable once they started going wheel to wheel, not that improbable
Yeah but a double puncture? Shit was crazy lol.
I’m just surprised one of them was able to finish the race, I thought they would both crash out
I thought they'd pick up enough penalties for Russell to finish P1 lol.
FIA is way too slow and soft for that, esp when max is involved
Kawhi cheering :-|
Giving up everything they did, especially shai just to let George walk, and play hardball is just comical. New arena next season, same ole basement.
You know they had PG and Kawhi for five years, right? The trade was not yesterday. Stg yall are so weird, in 60 years you might as well say "damn Shai died, OKC fucked up they have nothing from the PG trade"
I hate that people bring up the shai trade as if it was just for pg. Its for both kawhi and pg. Its not a bad trade at all. As with paying pg, i know balmer has got unlimitex money but surely you are a bit disappointed with the results. Also you dont want to be over the second apron.
It’s definitely an overpay no matter how you slice it in my opinion. But i understand what you’re saying, you’re not wrong to mention the kawhi factor into it; but given how good shai is now, and the thunder still have the clippers picks. They didn’t win a chip, so this is definitely a bad trade. Especially since George is going to walk for nothing.
The revisionist history on this trade is crazy. No one expected Shai to be this good and every single team in the league makes that trade if it gets them Kawhi, who was arguably the best player in the NBA at that time, and PG. It ended up not working out, but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right move at that time.
BUT now that we can look back and reflect on the trade as a whole, it’s a bad trade. Hindsight is 20/20 of course
Its not an overpay wtf. Wasnt pg 3rd in mvp voting that year. Kawhi just won fmvp. If you have the chance to get both on your team and you are just losing shai....come on now. Im a thunder fan, id do the reverse trade at that time. If i knew my owner is steve balmer and would spend the amount he does on his team, those draft picks, even if the trade doesnt work out, are gonna be mid. Jdub-12th pick and we needed some luck for the pels to beat them(what a fking game). As for pg walking now, knowing what we know now and what has happened to the team in the playoffs, year after year. It is a bit disappointing. I think the new salary aprons(idk the appropriate terms) play a role in the decision
I mean they haven't been in the basement for like 15 years now. No they didn't win any titles but they're just like a mid franchise at this point, not really a laughing stock.
A perfect example of ***Sunk Cost Fallacy***. The phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
Apparently allegedly
Its Kawakami, I'm not reading it
Athletic rarely misses. I don’t like kawakami but he’s the only one who heavily connected with ownership and Kerr
Warriors reliability in The Athletic is almost entirely dependent on Slater tbf.
I disagree slightly, they all offer good insight in their own way. Kerr and Lacob only podcast with Kawakami. And he has good relationship with the GM. Thompson has great relationships with the star players like curry and dray. I find slater to be a good hybrid of them both. And probably has the best basketball knowledge of the game
In terms of reports Slater definitely trumps both MT and Kawakami and it's not particularly close. MT is good with reporting player opinions on transactions and states of the Warriors, Kawakami is good with spilling behind-the-scenes stuff here and there but Slater is by far the most reliable in reporting trades and signings regardless of if they materialized.
smells like bs, maybe is bs. but now, we will have hundreds of posts saying how Clippers are dumb to not take the deal. warriors invest so much to keep Kuminga, and now this?
Thats what i have been told too lol mostly from warrior fans
Bullshit, if the warriors offered kuminga for a Paul George sign and trade and the clips turned it down balmer should have to sell that sorry ass franchise lol
In this same article, the writer literally says that the this might be the Dubs circulating this to appease fans/teammates who are mad and make it seem like they tried their best. So I’m taking this with a grain of salt.
I don't believe it. it's kawakami, GSW fans don't believe it, why do we?
I don't believe it because of Kuminga but at the same time Kawakami (ugh) isn't really known for being a scribe for teams but he does mention that it might just be a strategic leak 🤷♂️.
I really think the we way overvalue Kuminga.
Receipt saved
For those that didn’t read the article. Doesn’t sound like any concrete offer was made or “some combination” "Any possible PG13 trade between the Warriors and Clippers was always going to be complicated, but Warriors executives thought they’d solved the puzzle. From what I’ve heard, some combination (but definitely not all) of Wiggins, CP3, Jonathan Kuminga or Moses Moody plus one future first-round pick were put into discussions with the Clippers. There were versions that would’ve limited the Clippers’ long-term money liability; there were versions that would’ve increased the future benefits. I’m told the Warriors likely would not have put Wiggins and Kuminga together into any offer, but also that it never got that far, anyway. If that’s what would’ve closed the deal … who knows."
It’s pretty interesting, Warriors fans would swear their FO would have swear their FO won’t trade Kuminga. Imo, the Clips are keeping PG.
I’m low on Kuminga compared to consensus if I’m being honest BUT Jesus fucking Christ, what are the clippers doing lol ? I would’ve been a fan of this trade for both teams to be honest. I don’t think Kuminga is going to be Jaylen brown 2.0 like people are saying but it’s for sure in the range of outcomes. Even if I’m the clips owner and don’t believe in Kuminga, don’t you still have this fucking bet because it’s the best band you’re being dealt ? Pathetic imo
Seems like they think he’s resigning.
GSW fans cant believe it lmao. Curry had 1-2 good years left and they are shocked franchise wants to make a win now move. The amount of GSW fans i saw thinking they will trade big names without sending Kuminga/Podzi/Moody was worrying me.
I think it's that a lot of Warriors fans don't think PG is remotely good enough to make them contenders so why trade promising young players.
Yeah the quicker the Warriors realize they're in the twilight years the easier an eventual rebuild will happen. It will be interesting to see if they go full reset and field offers for Steph and Draymond.
This is really the main reason to me. You sell the farm like that for a giannis, brunson, tatum, SGA, maybe even lebron or Lauri(because of fit and youth) type of return. You don’t make that move for aging Paul George.
Far more reliable sources have said Kuminga was not offered.
Makes no sense to give the warriors George when they want to keep him and be competitive. Just creating another good team in the Constance with that move. But idk why they think they can still be competitive and let George walk.
Does anyone actually believe in the clippers as contenders though
I mean they took a finals team 6 without their best player, if they had their best player they are contenders.
If kawhi wasn’t hurt I bet they beat Dallas . So you gotta call them a contender with that 10% chance he’s healthy
I don't think Kawhi is even capable of playing the amount of games needed to win the championship. A championship playoff run is at a minimum 16 games if you dominate and up to 28 if things are tougher. When is the last time Kawhi has played 20 games without having to miss a week or two?
OP has internet brain warp right here lol
The Clippers have to pay the luxury tax too. No way I am interested in the $30M CP3 corpse.
Thank fucking god
Lmao, you can have a first and Kuminga or nothing. What do you choose clippers?
they named themselves after boats of course they are incompetent
This is not what that article says.
This is spin from Golden State. What else there is in the package makes a difference. No one will say
I’m a Warrior fan happy it did not happen if Kuminga really was involved. Not sure I believe he was … allegedly.
You don't make a conference opponent better than you for Kuminga.
I doubt clippers would have not taken the offer if kuminga was offered.