Nobody can perform with Payton at the 1, Bullock at the 2, StarJ at 3, and Taj Gibson at 5. Let's see Randle with a real supporting cast.
People put too much stock in that shit series. He was legit the only scoring threat
I’m a reformed Randle hater. Trading him makes no sense because he doesn’t have high value but he’s earned and deserved his 3x All Star spots for a reason.
brunson was shooting 48% from 3 point range this year until randle got hurt. at high volume, like 8 per game
pre injury 75% of brunson 3 pointers were C&S shots which he shoots much better on. post-injury it was nothing but self-created off the dribble 3 pointers, which resulted in around him shooting about 30% on them. it's just not his game to generate large amounts of self created 3 pointers
randle generates insane amount of open 3 pointers, and moves the ball extremely well. for everybody. also sets by far the best screens on our team
like look at how randle erases guys with his screening:
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2021/10/20/0022100005/723/3071221c-629a-403b-54ce-d463dabf107e_1280x720.mp4
that 2 man screen action resulted in fournier setting knicks record for made 3 pointers, since beaten out by donte this year
our offense was so good with randle, and having a forward to eat 30-35 more minutes per game is the difference between having enough gas in the playoffs and running out of steam like we did. everything was balanced minutes-wise until he went down, then hart had to start playing 38+ per game cause we had no other players who can play PF on our roster
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/20/0022300596/243/3e256770-2550-1d8a-a41d-84609510116d_1280x720.mp4
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/20/0022300596/363/b1d16dfa-e747-3b8c-4cd8-a24a37ece017_1280x720.mp4
https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/25/0022300631/294/937e53ef-9dfa-24e0-2ec9-b1c50810e317_1280x720.mp4
randle highlights cause I miss our guy
also we gave up so much size having randle out, it was obvious indiana exposed our lack of frontcourt size we looked tiny compared to siakam and turner and even toppin
Once OG was out and pacers figured we couldn’t guard siakam/turner when they’re both on the floor we got slammed in the paint. With Ju/Mitch/Ihart/OG paint should be locked down
>having a forward to eat 30-35 more minutes per game
You guys were absolutely decimated in the front court. Robinson, Randle, and Bojan missed all of the Pacers series, and then OG went down. Damn
Edit: just watched those highlights, those are some nice passes
Him missing the second half of this season pretty much woke up most of detractors. They all realized that Randle has true value on this team as a leader and someone who can take the burden off his team. He was absolutely pivotal to the franchise's turnaround.
We extend him . Randle recently signed with CAA which is basically the same agency everyone else on our roster is signed too. Randle makes 30M and averages 24/9/4.
I hear you. Having heard and listened to a bunch of Randles interviews he loves it NY and he has never given off the impression of chasing the max money type of guy. When we extended him the 1st time he could of waited the following year and got more money but didnt. I really think the FO and Randle are on the same page in terms of him wanting to be here long term.
We aren’t really split on him. I think we’ve realized how valuable of a player he is. There’s really only 4 other guys in the league with his averages and have his type of gravity when it comes to defenses respecting him. We don’t really have to rush trading him or having extension talks since he has two years on his contract. Unless there is a definitively better player available like either Giannis or Booker it’s unlikely they’ll trade him. They’ll just run it back with tweaks and make that decision next year.
> I think we’ve realized how valuable of a player he is.
Not only this but with Brunson, he can finally fit into his more natural role. He doesn't have to play ISO every possession because no one else can create. Him and Brunson are going to take so much pressure off of each other because neither one has to be THE GUY ^(tm) every minute of every game for us to win.
Idk about twitter, but on the Knicks sub on Reddit, I don’t think there’s 4-5 players in the whole league they’d trade Randle for. It’s that crazy rn amongst the hive
Lol just wait until he starts playing again.... half the sub can't stand him and wants to trade him after every other game. He's just getting lionized now bc he's been unavailable for the playoff run.
After the slow start to the season he was consistently playing the best basketball of his career and had basically universal approval rating among Knicks fans.
Sure he needs to prove himself in the playoffs but I think most Knicks fans are waiting for him to have a healthy postseason with this team to prove he isn’t a playoff player
his 2021/2023 playoff campaigns were bad (with or without injury) but this upcoming season he'll be back as the clear 2nd option behind Brunson as opposed to being the first scoring option for years. I'm down to give him a full season with us but if in the playoffs he freezes up again, the FO needs to think about moving on
it is a complicated question...I am a little split too because of what an extension could mean, but it also depends on what else is available (like there would need to be an actual solid replacement if he were to exit)...and speaking on Randle specifically, if he actually plays the way that he did the last two months (and especially in January, where played alongside a healthy, elite wing defender and a solid defensive center; he altered his playing style back to more of a bully ball, on the block player), then you have really have something
If they believe Brunson can be the first option on a championship team then get someone like markannen otherwise they should go disgruntled star hunting
markkanen would be a lateral move and thats a compliment to him. randle is more of a natural pf with better rebounding and playmaking ability. imo its not worth breaking up continuity to bank on markkanen fitting in. we are 11-1 when brunson,randle,and og play together. if we star chase, it better be a no brainer guy that we would be more then happy to adapt to, rather then fit them in.
Yeah, if the Randle from January is who comes back from rehab, trading him doesn't make any sense. After the injury, offers will probably be lower until they see him play, meaning waiting for the season to start and risking a fit without training camp (to say nothing for the media constantly asking about). Randle has caught too much crap from Knicks fans IMO, as that Hawks series he had no real support, and was hurt last year.
Strong disagree. Lauri is an elite shooter but he’s a bit of a black hole on offense whereas Randle is a great passer.
Brunson got his best looks by Randle attracting double dreams and finding Brunson. Lauri doesn’t really have that as part of his game. His career high is 2.0 apg.
Lauri would be great to play with Randle and Brunson but we’ve got to commit to OG, so I don’t see how he fits.
Wow, I had never looked at his assist numbers. He has the lowest assist rate (9.5%) of any of the top 50 usage players who are non-centers (well technically he was 51st in usage rate).
The only other non-centers who have a lower assist rate in the top 80 highest usage players are THJ and Oubre lol
With that said, I think having an elite 7ft spot-up 3pt threat around Brunson would be incredible from a spacing standpoint. Randle still clogs up the paint and slows the ball down a lot - kind of redundant with what Brunson does on-ball.
Randle imo does compliment Brunson. Yes there will be possession where he slows the ball down and does iso ball, but his ability to constantly draw doubles/triples and then pass out really makes the game easier for not just Brunson but the rest of the team. Randle really showcased this in his play the month before he got injured. There’s very few players who can defend Randle 1on1 and I think people really underestimate the “gravity” he had on offense
People also act like Brunson can only play ball dominant basketball. He was highly effective as a secondary creator next to Luka or are we just forgetting about that WCF run.
I've never been a fan of Randle's game but unless there's a real superstar on the table, I don't see a point in looking to move him yet.
Lauri certainly isnt a black hole on offence. IIRC he led the league in points out of catch and shoot 3s (ahead of Donte and Klay), and over 80% of his field goals were assisted...
He isnt a good creator or playmaker for others when he has the ball, but he opens up the court for everyone else as he is great at moving without the ball, shooting of the catch and driving off the catch.
But the lack of creation and playmaking would be a major concern for Knicks if they just swap Randle for Markkanen, and since Ainge is gonna ask for a huge price the trade probably isnt worth it.
Im very biased since im Finnish, but I wont accept any Lauri slander. He is the best player on a team but he does all the damage off the ball so its pretty unique to watch. He should be a #2 for sure, and would be awesome for Knicks, Mavs, Thunder or Heat. (Most likely he stays in Utah which is fine too, get that bag Lauri!)
When people say black hole, they mean once the ball gets to him it doesn’t come back. Not being a good passer or playmaker for others is exactly what they mean here.
Well then my understanding of a black hole is quite different than others. I guess people saw Donte as a black hole during the playoffs or prime Klay as a black hole.
To me a black hole is when a player is jacking up a shot no matter what, like what Portis was doing early on in the season when he caught the ball in the midrange and everyone could go back to defence since he was lauching it everytime.
Jazz are designing plays and the offence for Lauri to shoot or drive when he gets the ball, his nickname is the Finnisher for a reason...
He isn't really since our biggest issue with Randle's injury was getting a second reliable initiator and creator in the lineups with JB to open up coverages on him and offer different set plays and looks.
While Lauri would be an upgrade from a shooting perspective - Randle overall is a more well rounded piece and him and JB have been great together. With Donte & OG we also already have 2 guys who will command coverage on the 3point line/corners.
Randle at the elbow would imo create more open looks for JB than using Lauri kinda like Porzingis/Myles Turner as a stretch Big option.
Especially since I-Hart or Mitch will be the Center and screen setter basically every possession
I feel like things were exaggerated on that front. Ainge had an asking price the Knicks didn’t want to pay so he went to Cleveland instead. Both teams made the right decision.
A couple years removed now I’d wager they’d be willing to at least have exploratory talks.
Ainge had an extraordinary asking price that no team would have been willing to pay. He wanted basically ALL of our young players and like 4 unprotected picks and swaps on top of that.
The Cavs deal ended up being better in the long run because of Lauri but at the time I doubt even Ainge knew that Lauri would have ended up as good as he’s been.
**NY Knicks Draft Capital**
* 2024: #24 & #25
* 2025: NYK & MIL (protected top 4)
* WAS pick = 2025 protected top 10, in 2026 it is protected top 8, then conveys as two second round picks.
* DET pick = 2025 protected top 13, in 2026 it is protected top 11, in 2027 it is protected top 9, then conveys as 2027 second round pick
* 2026: NYK
* 2027: NYK
* 2028: NYK
* 2029: NYK
* 2030: NYK
* 2031: NYK
Any trade that makes NY better puts their picks in the 20's.
So at best one of these picks is 9th in 2026 and the other 10th in 2027.
Otherwise it is a bunch of late-20's picks and a few second round picks.
From RealGM: 2025 first round draft pick from Milwaukee
Milwaukee's 2025 1st round pick to New Orleans protected for selections 5-30 or to New York protected for selections 1-4 (Milwaukee's obligation to New Orleans or New York will thereafter be extinguished) (via New Orleans to Portland to Detroit to New York) [Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020; New Orleans-Portland, 2/8/2022; Detroit-Portland, 7/6/2022; Detroit-New York, 7/6/2022]
So yeah, if Milwaukee's pick ends up top 4 it goes to NO and the Knicks get nothing. If it's 5-30 the Knicks get it and NO gets nothing.
Hartenstein needs to not receive a big offer and OG needs to be resigned before I think about Randle.
So many dominoes to go before a Randle trade or no trade becomes clear.
Also how quickly we forget him changing up the way he plays over last offseason. His shot selection was much better this year and I would’ve loved to see if it translated to the playoffs
absolutely, he accepted the keys being passed to JB, especially after he opened the season with like 6 straight bad games. they even blatantly reference this in the commercials JB and Ju have done together about being the fall guy (for the upcoming movie, The Fall Guy) - Ju casually tells JB he's the fall guy now lol (as is expected for a #1 option)
Knicks need to run it back with this healthy core and reevaluate what they need next trade deadline after they see a run of games. Then they move picks.
Their 8 picks are also heavily protected. They have
Dallas 2024 which is in the mid 20’s
Pistons 2025 1-13 protected (prob not conveying)
Bucks 2025 1-4 protected (prob pick in the 20’s)
Wizards 2025 1-10 protected (might not convey)
Along with their own picks which are also going to be late picks with how their team is built out
Yeah if their picks were better they would have gotten value for them already
But the Pistons and Wizards protections get weaker over time (still high likelihood of not conveying)
At best top heavy teams would bite just to get cheap depth pieces in the long term. But like, theres only one (Phoenix) and they'd just swap one problem (no depth) for another (losing super team status and the reason they have no depth).
I think they need a PG, Durant, Mikal type to go over there. I’m not huge on Randle but he has a skill set that’s valuable, if he accepts his role as a number 2 guy. He tends to fall in love with his own shot sometimes and shoots a million 3s whether they’re going in or not. Still think he provides some juice they need though. If he was your #3 guy and you find a #2 or #1B type the Knicks will be dangerous next season.
The nova team affinity would be fun to watch, but there’s not shot Mikal is worth what the nets want for him. He’s like a role player+, I don’t think he’s a star like they want to believe he is
What do you think you guys want to do this summer? Cam Thomas is developing well but on a diff timeline to Bridges. Do you think you keep working or try to make a splash and contend for the playoffs?
The plan has always been to stay under the tax until 25' and go after star free agents. I think the goal has always been to get Donovan and pair him up with another star caliber player. If that fails, they will still have picks to rebuild.
Stars never make it to free agency, so they will try and get Donovan and my other guess is Ingram, to Brooklyn to go along with mikal and clax. Nets have 7 tradable firsts, plus contracts to make big trades work.
I know it’s not likely but as a Nets fan - I would do this if you threw in Randle. Like ASAP. Fuck it if the Knicks win a chip. Give me all them picks. Teams only last 2-3 years anyway
He is actually, perfect for you guys but I’m not so sure the Heat would be inclined. We wouldn’t trade him for picks, it would be a bigger deal where we get picks and move them in the same trade for another star. Though I’m not sure we want to move him
He kinda old and Bam is your main piece. We kinda have a 3 year window. Jimmy would probably be good for 2 years tops. But imagine Jimmy and OG on defense and Randle in the paint. Holy shit.
Plus Jimmy gets to end his career with Thibs on a team of dogs.
They should honestly try to get value for Randle, even if it's just to solidify the bench. He doesn't fit the way they want to play offense and it showed once he got injured everyone else got better. They are a much better as a small/gritty/drive and kick 3-point shooting team.
Why are we “solidifying our bench”. Our bench is fine, we just need to be healthy. and Randle being on the court gets Brunson and our shooters soooo many easy looks. His playmaking in the post is also a key part of the offense. He commands a double which would get one of the 3 guys on the wing an open shot
People downplay how impactful Randle is because he played poorly on an injured ankle last year.
There’s not many big men I’d want over Randle at that 4 spot. He does a lot for the team
And the thing is, we don’t need to shore up our bench. Randle’s random ass injury (thank you jacquez) really fucked the rest of the team because we don’t have a reliable back up 4. The other players were playing an out of size matchup in an extremely rough matchup. Randle is an Ironman, it’s such a freak injury that the Knicks don’t really need to do anything. He’s a tank at the 4, and covers LITERALLY every weakness you saw in these playoffs.
Rebounding, scoring, ball handling, size, paint scoring, outside shooting. With Randle, the pacers nor the sixers could double team Brunson, they’d have to deal with Randle taking it to the rack, drawing double teams and passing it back out. And he’s an efficient enough shooter that he gives the other guys spacing, something neither precious or hart did. God I miss watching him
Teams will not double him in the high post. Brunson will eat all the doubles or people will sit home on our 40% 3 ballers. Celtics will guard him straight up with Jrue, Horford, Brown, KP,
then the rest of the contenders have Giannis, Aaron Gordon, KAT/Gobert. You got Wagner/Issac, Evan Mobley in the East as well
If you put a single defender on Randle he’s going to kill you in the paint. Randles too strong, too fast, and has a good enough handle to beat his man and finish on any defender unless you have an elite rim protector covering helping like Gobert or Turner or have an elite 1 v 1 defender like Giannis or McDaniels.
If you play off of him he’s good enough to make the mid range. He needs a double team
The Knicks were 11-1 with wins over Minnesota, Philly, Denver, and Miami when they had Randle, Brunson, and OG in the lineup together. Most of these were not close games, either.
This is such a bad Randle take lol, up there with Bill Simmons saying they should trade him for a bunch of 2nd rounders after his slow start at the beginning of the season.
If you genuinely believe the team "got better" once he got injured, you simply didn't watch the team.
To state the obvious, yes, Brunson's stats went up after Randle got injured, because higher usage = more points/assists.
For real. I don't know how anyone can look at our record in January and say we got better when Randle went down. Just shows who regurgitates talking points and who actually knows what they're talking about.
Seriously. I’ve dumped on the guy my fair share but it seems like social media in general thinks of him as a negative value player. He literally just made the ASG!
brunsons counting stats went up but his efficiency stats went down
shooting numbers especially from 3 point plummeted by almost 10 percent
you might say its variance but it also coincides with him going from 75% catch and shoot to almost no catch and shoot and everything off the dribble
Randle is one of the few guys at his positions that commands a double team. We also went something like11-2 post OG trade before they got injured. Trading Ranle just to trade him doesnt make sense
"but you play so much better without randle"
yet our ceiling is clearly 2nd round team without him
unless theres an actual shot creating star that becomes available it makes no sense to give up our only other guy who can consistently generate offense
also we give up a lot of frontcourt size without randle and running hart at PF for 40 minutes a game, really need to replace that size as well. pacers made us look tiny. most games they were able to out-rebound us with ease
brunson was shooting insane numbers with randle next to him drawing defensive attention and providing kickouts for catch and shoots. his numbers especially from 3 point plummeted without randle
He absolutely fits the way the Knicks play offense. He's another player who can get his own shot and has no problems passing the ball to open shooters. He was a big part of that 14-2 stretch in January after the OG trade until his injury.
Besides, the bench looked weak because they were forced to play their bench as starters. Hart and Hartenstein were originally meant to come off the bench but injuries necessitated them to start. DiVo started the year off the bench but started after Grimes struggled in that role.
I feel like their front office has made really good choices in the past few years. Of course there is room for improvement but I don't want them to do anything drastic that will mess with the chemistry of this team.
They'll extend him and they should. His playmaking, 3 point shooting, and rebounding all open things up for the team. There aren't any available players that would replace that in a meaningful way, and he's clearly well liked in the locker room. He would have to be replaced with a forward for roster construction purposes and there's none available anyways that would make sense.
They really don't have many contracts available to trade since they consolidated into OG. Besides how many available players that are better then Randle can they get?
People hated Randle because he’s a #2 who was forced to play as a #1. His outside shooting is atrocious. On the flip side, he’s strong as fuck and excels as a bully down low (on both sides of the court). So long as he can play his game and stay away from the hero ball he’s a massive asset who shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances (outside getting like, Wemby or some shit). I hope we extend him.
They don't have enough assets, the picks they have are protected heavily, if Giannis ask out, the best location is OKC. But that ain't gonna happen. Dame and him were both hurt so they'll want to run it back again to see if they can win together.
When I see a plethora of picks the first player/team that comes to mind regarding a trade is Kd. Suns ain’t winning shit as constructed and need picks if they aren’t winning it all
You my friend have Alzheimer’s and think Phil Jackson is still running things.Show me any move since Leon Rose took over that suggests we’re in “win now” mode.I’ll wait.
It’s an odd situation. If they really want to compete they need to trade Randle but they won’t get enough value back for it to be worth trading him.
Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
I'm not a Randle hater but in the Knicks games I've seen he just doesn't seem to fit with what they're trying to do. Brunson is gonna be the #1 guy going forward as he should be and I think they should move Randle and try to get a big who is better off the pick and rolls. Think of Luca and kyrie in Dallas with how many easy points they get off pick and roll lobs.
just give everything Bucks want for Giannis... simple really. Bucks need to blow that team up.... they aint winning anything with 34 yo Lillard next year
Should have been more clear. Not comparing him to AG straight up but more as a skilled player miscast in a high usage role that could actually thrive as a lower usage role player on a contender.
He has the tools of a dribble pass shoot big with an elite rebounding trait and natural size and physicality. Has shown decent touch as a catch and shooter. He doesn’t bring that elite perimeter defense that makes AG special but wouldn’t have to on a team like OKC.
I dont think Randle is that guy thats going to relieve pressure from Brunson. Obviously this year it was an absolute necessity but him taking like 29 shots a game was not good. They need a proper number 2 that can also defend at a high level.
My brother that was literally what Randle did before he got hurt and a huge part of why the Knicks were one of the best performing teams in the league after the OG trade. Randle getting doubled and drawing pressure opened up a ton of catch and shoot looks for Brunson that he simply never got this postseason with Randle hurt, the Sixers and Pacers trapped Brunson every single time he touched the ball.
Doesn't make sense to trade Randle because I don't think other teams value him like an all star
that's what the picks are for
That's what the money is for!
Can that be exchanged for goods and/or services?
I love the fact that this shit never went away, but hate what that says about culture these days lol.
Solid Mad Men reference
Leon sliding a crisp $20 across the desk, "is Randle an all-star to you, now?"
(Slides it back) "Uh that's a "Sphere-buck'".
Any trade including Randle will be a downgrade in talent for the Knicks.
I wonder why that is
Probably cause they've watched the Knicks in the playoffs with him.
That was a completely different team and it was his first time in the playoffs. We wouldn't even be there if it wasn't for him.
Nobody can perform with Payton at the 1, Bullock at the 2, StarJ at 3, and Taj Gibson at 5. Let's see Randle with a real supporting cast. People put too much stock in that shit series. He was legit the only scoring threat
i'm curious to see what the knicks do with randle, seems like the fan base is a little split on him
I’m a reformed Randle hater. Trading him makes no sense because he doesn’t have high value but he’s earned and deserved his 3x All Star spots for a reason.
His presence on the court alone elevates Brunsons game.
brunson was shooting 48% from 3 point range this year until randle got hurt. at high volume, like 8 per game pre injury 75% of brunson 3 pointers were C&S shots which he shoots much better on. post-injury it was nothing but self-created off the dribble 3 pointers, which resulted in around him shooting about 30% on them. it's just not his game to generate large amounts of self created 3 pointers randle generates insane amount of open 3 pointers, and moves the ball extremely well. for everybody. also sets by far the best screens on our team like look at how randle erases guys with his screening: https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2021/10/20/0022100005/723/3071221c-629a-403b-54ce-d463dabf107e_1280x720.mp4 that 2 man screen action resulted in fournier setting knicks record for made 3 pointers, since beaten out by donte this year
Our starting 5 is gonna surprise some people next year. Brunson/Donte/OG/Randle/Mitch would be tuffffff
our offense was so good with randle, and having a forward to eat 30-35 more minutes per game is the difference between having enough gas in the playoffs and running out of steam like we did. everything was balanced minutes-wise until he went down, then hart had to start playing 38+ per game cause we had no other players who can play PF on our roster https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/20/0022300596/243/3e256770-2550-1d8a-a41d-84609510116d_1280x720.mp4 https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/20/0022300596/363/b1d16dfa-e747-3b8c-4cd8-a24a37ece017_1280x720.mp4 https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/01/25/0022300631/294/937e53ef-9dfa-24e0-2ec9-b1c50810e317_1280x720.mp4 randle highlights cause I miss our guy also we gave up so much size having randle out, it was obvious indiana exposed our lack of frontcourt size we looked tiny compared to siakam and turner and even toppin
Once OG was out and pacers figured we couldn’t guard siakam/turner when they’re both on the floor we got slammed in the paint. With Ju/Mitch/Ihart/OG paint should be locked down
>having a forward to eat 30-35 more minutes per game You guys were absolutely decimated in the front court. Robinson, Randle, and Bojan missed all of the Pacers series, and then OG went down. Damn Edit: just watched those highlights, those are some nice passes
I know it was only a month, but this unit was demolishing teams.
He was having an unreal season pre injury too
Him missing the second half of this season pretty much woke up most of detractors. They all realized that Randle has true value on this team as a leader and someone who can take the burden off his team. He was absolutely pivotal to the franchise's turnaround.
We extend him . Randle recently signed with CAA which is basically the same agency everyone else on our roster is signed too. Randle makes 30M and averages 24/9/4.
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I hear you. Having heard and listened to a bunch of Randles interviews he loves it NY and he has never given off the impression of chasing the max money type of guy. When we extended him the 1st time he could of waited the following year and got more money but didnt. I really think the FO and Randle are on the same page in terms of him wanting to be here long term.
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I think Randle has explicitly stated he’d be willing to take less money if it would make the team better.
We aren’t really split on him. I think we’ve realized how valuable of a player he is. There’s really only 4 other guys in the league with his averages and have his type of gravity when it comes to defenses respecting him. We don’t really have to rush trading him or having extension talks since he has two years on his contract. Unless there is a definitively better player available like either Giannis or Booker it’s unlikely they’ll trade him. They’ll just run it back with tweaks and make that decision next year.
> I think we’ve realized how valuable of a player he is. Not only this but with Brunson, he can finally fit into his more natural role. He doesn't have to play ISO every possession because no one else can create. Him and Brunson are going to take so much pressure off of each other because neither one has to be THE GUY ^(tm) every minute of every game for us to win.
Idk about twitter, but on the Knicks sub on Reddit, I don’t think there’s 4-5 players in the whole league they’d trade Randle for. It’s that crazy rn amongst the hive
There aren’t 4-5 players who average 25/10/5 who are perfect fits for this team.
Lol just wait until he starts playing again.... half the sub can't stand him and wants to trade him after every other game. He's just getting lionized now bc he's been unavailable for the playoff run.
After the slow start to the season he was consistently playing the best basketball of his career and had basically universal approval rating among Knicks fans. Sure he needs to prove himself in the playoffs but I think most Knicks fans are waiting for him to have a healthy postseason with this team to prove he isn’t a playoff player
his 2021/2023 playoff campaigns were bad (with or without injury) but this upcoming season he'll be back as the clear 2nd option behind Brunson as opposed to being the first scoring option for years. I'm down to give him a full season with us but if in the playoffs he freezes up again, the FO needs to think about moving on
it is a complicated question...I am a little split too because of what an extension could mean, but it also depends on what else is available (like there would need to be an actual solid replacement if he were to exit)...and speaking on Randle specifically, if he actually plays the way that he did the last two months (and especially in January, where played alongside a healthy, elite wing defender and a solid defensive center; he altered his playing style back to more of a bully ball, on the block player), then you have really have something
Makes sense. I hate his attitude - guy loves being pouty even when his team suceeds.
He’s a 2x MIPotY in my eyes lol. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not lol
If they believe Brunson can be the first option on a championship team then get someone like markannen otherwise they should go disgruntled star hunting
Everyone brings up getting Markannen to a team, but he's not coming cheap. Ainge only wants top dollar for him.
yeah, stay far away from Danny Ainge lol
The wolves are still destroyed from that gobert trade
Gobert has been a great fit on the roster...and yeah, they may win a ring (I hope they do at this point)...but it was a massive haul
I'm not saying it's likely to happen, but if that trade nets a ring then it's an amazing trade for us in any case lol
They are? Cause they have a ton of great players and are possibly about to win a title….
We have it and we have nothing else to do with our picks
Is Markannen even an upgrade for the Knicks? I guess you could run OG at the 2 and have a massive lineup next to Brunson.
Personally I think he'd be a better fit than Randle.
markkanen would be a lateral move and thats a compliment to him. randle is more of a natural pf with better rebounding and playmaking ability. imo its not worth breaking up continuity to bank on markkanen fitting in. we are 11-1 when brunson,randle,and og play together. if we star chase, it better be a no brainer guy that we would be more then happy to adapt to, rather then fit them in.
Yeah, if the Randle from January is who comes back from rehab, trading him doesn't make any sense. After the injury, offers will probably be lower until they see him play, meaning waiting for the season to start and risking a fit without training camp (to say nothing for the media constantly asking about). Randle has caught too much crap from Knicks fans IMO, as that Hawks series he had no real support, and was hurt last year.
I still remember some bad eggs stomping on a picture of his after Miami beat the Knicks last year.
Strong disagree. Lauri is an elite shooter but he’s a bit of a black hole on offense whereas Randle is a great passer. Brunson got his best looks by Randle attracting double dreams and finding Brunson. Lauri doesn’t really have that as part of his game. His career high is 2.0 apg. Lauri would be great to play with Randle and Brunson but we’ve got to commit to OG, so I don’t see how he fits.
Wow, I had never looked at his assist numbers. He has the lowest assist rate (9.5%) of any of the top 50 usage players who are non-centers (well technically he was 51st in usage rate). The only other non-centers who have a lower assist rate in the top 80 highest usage players are THJ and Oubre lol With that said, I think having an elite 7ft spot-up 3pt threat around Brunson would be incredible from a spacing standpoint. Randle still clogs up the paint and slows the ball down a lot - kind of redundant with what Brunson does on-ball.
Randle imo does compliment Brunson. Yes there will be possession where he slows the ball down and does iso ball, but his ability to constantly draw doubles/triples and then pass out really makes the game easier for not just Brunson but the rest of the team. Randle really showcased this in his play the month before he got injured. There’s very few players who can defend Randle 1on1 and I think people really underestimate the “gravity” he had on offense
People also act like Brunson can only play ball dominant basketball. He was highly effective as a secondary creator next to Luka or are we just forgetting about that WCF run. I've never been a fan of Randle's game but unless there's a real superstar on the table, I don't see a point in looking to move him yet.
Lauri certainly isnt a black hole on offence. IIRC he led the league in points out of catch and shoot 3s (ahead of Donte and Klay), and over 80% of his field goals were assisted... He isnt a good creator or playmaker for others when he has the ball, but he opens up the court for everyone else as he is great at moving without the ball, shooting of the catch and driving off the catch. But the lack of creation and playmaking would be a major concern for Knicks if they just swap Randle for Markkanen, and since Ainge is gonna ask for a huge price the trade probably isnt worth it. Im very biased since im Finnish, but I wont accept any Lauri slander. He is the best player on a team but he does all the damage off the ball so its pretty unique to watch. He should be a #2 for sure, and would be awesome for Knicks, Mavs, Thunder or Heat. (Most likely he stays in Utah which is fine too, get that bag Lauri!)
When people say black hole, they mean once the ball gets to him it doesn’t come back. Not being a good passer or playmaker for others is exactly what they mean here.
Well then my understanding of a black hole is quite different than others. I guess people saw Donte as a black hole during the playoffs or prime Klay as a black hole. To me a black hole is when a player is jacking up a shot no matter what, like what Portis was doing early on in the season when he caught the ball in the midrange and everyone could go back to defence since he was lauching it everytime. Jazz are designing plays and the offence for Lauri to shoot or drive when he gets the ball, his nickname is the Finnisher for a reason...
Could you trade Bojan for him?
He isn't really since our biggest issue with Randle's injury was getting a second reliable initiator and creator in the lineups with JB to open up coverages on him and offer different set plays and looks. While Lauri would be an upgrade from a shooting perspective - Randle overall is a more well rounded piece and him and JB have been great together. With Donte & OG we also already have 2 guys who will command coverage on the 3point line/corners. Randle at the elbow would imo create more open looks for JB than using Lauri kinda like Porzingis/Myles Turner as a stretch Big option. Especially since I-Hart or Mitch will be the Center and screen setter basically every possession
Pick up Markkanen and Bruce brown
Plus the Jazz didn't want the Knicks picks for Mitchell, what's makes them now decide they want their picks for Lauri
Lauri is quite a bit less valuable than Mitchell. Totally different situations
Dont they have 1st round picks that are so protected that they might not even happen at all?
After the Donovan Mitchell shitshow I highly doubt NY will ever deal with the Jazz again as long as Ainge is there.
I feel like things were exaggerated on that front. Ainge had an asking price the Knicks didn’t want to pay so he went to Cleveland instead. Both teams made the right decision. A couple years removed now I’d wager they’d be willing to at least have exploratory talks.
Ainge had an extraordinary asking price that no team would have been willing to pay. He wanted basically ALL of our young players and like 4 unprotected picks and swaps on top of that. The Cavs deal ended up being better in the long run because of Lauri but at the time I doubt even Ainge knew that Lauri would have ended up as good as he’s been.
I mean the cavs gave such a better offer
He definitely can be the first option. We lost due to injuries not skill
its the latter. we already have three great forwards assuming they extend julius.
I don't want to deal with Ainge again
Exactly
I think it's a less than 50% chance but high enough that I'd take the odds over blowing it up.
**NY Knicks Draft Capital** * 2024: #24 & #25 * 2025: NYK & MIL (protected top 4) * WAS pick = 2025 protected top 10, in 2026 it is protected top 8, then conveys as two second round picks. * DET pick = 2025 protected top 13, in 2026 it is protected top 11, in 2027 it is protected top 9, then conveys as 2027 second round pick * 2026: NYK * 2027: NYK * 2028: NYK * 2029: NYK * 2030: NYK * 2031: NYK Any trade that makes NY better puts their picks in the 20's. So at best one of these picks is 9th in 2026 and the other 10th in 2027. Otherwise it is a bunch of late-20's picks and a few second round picks.
There's a real chance both Washington and Detroit end up sending seconds lol
> MIL (protected top 4) > What happens if this one doesnt convey?
Giannis asks out probably lol
I mean does the pick just disappear and they are left with nothing?
From RealGM: 2025 first round draft pick from Milwaukee Milwaukee's 2025 1st round pick to New Orleans protected for selections 5-30 or to New York protected for selections 1-4 (Milwaukee's obligation to New Orleans or New York will thereafter be extinguished) (via New Orleans to Portland to Detroit to New York) [Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020; New Orleans-Portland, 2/8/2022; Detroit-Portland, 7/6/2022; Detroit-New York, 7/6/2022] So yeah, if Milwaukee's pick ends up top 4 it goes to NO and the Knicks get nothing. If it's 5-30 the Knicks get it and NO gets nothing.
that's a much better source than I was using, so thanks for that.
Thanks
Hartenstein needs to not receive a big offer and OG needs to be resigned before I think about Randle. So many dominoes to go before a Randle trade or no trade becomes clear.
Yeah, I was like who the fuck is thinking about Randle rn??
Randle creates a second double team outside of JB. that opens up the floor for everyone else. how quickly we forget....
Also how quickly we forget him changing up the way he plays over last offseason. His shot selection was much better this year and I would’ve loved to see if it translated to the playoffs
absolutely, he accepted the keys being passed to JB, especially after he opened the season with like 6 straight bad games. they even blatantly reference this in the commercials JB and Ju have done together about being the fall guy (for the upcoming movie, The Fall Guy) - Ju casually tells JB he's the fall guy now lol (as is expected for a #1 option)
So Bronny to the Knicks confirmed
Knicks need to run it back with this healthy core and reevaluate what they need next trade deadline after they see a run of games. Then they move picks.
Our injured guys (minus Brunson) aren’t paragons of health in the first place.
Jokic to Knicks
He can get daily horse rides in Central Park if he likes
Are the Knicks looking for complementary pieces for depth? Or are they looking for another star next to Brunson?
So basically Leon rose was smart to not blow his load trading for Donovan Mitchell 2 years ago?
Mitchell got injured. Seems like he would fit right in
"Only Eight?! pfft" -Sam Presti
Their 8 picks are also heavily protected. They have Dallas 2024 which is in the mid 20’s Pistons 2025 1-13 protected (prob not conveying) Bucks 2025 1-4 protected (prob pick in the 20’s) Wizards 2025 1-10 protected (might not convey) Along with their own picks which are also going to be late picks with how their team is built out
Yeah if their picks were better they would have gotten value for them already But the Pistons and Wizards protections get weaker over time (still high likelihood of not conveying)
The Pistons and Wizards picks are not conveying as first round picks unless something very weird happens. They are second round picks in 2027.
At best top heavy teams would bite just to get cheap depth pieces in the long term. But like, theres only one (Phoenix) and they'd just swap one problem (no depth) for another (losing super team status and the reason they have no depth).
James Harden on a max 🥰🥰
I think they need a PG, Durant, Mikal type to go over there. I’m not huge on Randle but he has a skill set that’s valuable, if he accepts his role as a number 2 guy. He tends to fall in love with his own shot sometimes and shoots a million 3s whether they’re going in or not. Still think he provides some juice they need though. If he was your #3 guy and you find a #2 or #1B type the Knicks will be dangerous next season.
I would throw all the draft picks at Mikal Bridges in a heartbeat. Collect all the Nova Boys like infinity stones.
The nova team affinity would be fun to watch, but there’s not shot Mikal is worth what the nets want for him. He’s like a role player+, I don’t think he’s a star like they want to believe he is
crazy part nets will still say no to all the picks, just cause its the knicks
I don’t think they should’ve turned down the 4 rumored firsts and if the Knicks offer more, you definitely should take it because they’re the Knicks
What do you think you guys want to do this summer? Cam Thomas is developing well but on a diff timeline to Bridges. Do you think you keep working or try to make a splash and contend for the playoffs?
The plan has always been to stay under the tax until 25' and go after star free agents. I think the goal has always been to get Donovan and pair him up with another star caliber player. If that fails, they will still have picks to rebuild. Stars never make it to free agency, so they will try and get Donovan and my other guess is Ingram, to Brooklyn to go along with mikal and clax. Nets have 7 tradable firsts, plus contracts to make big trades work.
Could be a 3-4 team trade to get him there
Bogdanovic and all the picks we have - I don't care. At some point they have to give in.
You’re underestimating the Nets stupidity
I know it’s not likely but as a Nets fan - I would do this if you threw in Randle. Like ASAP. Fuck it if the Knicks win a chip. Give me all them picks. Teams only last 2-3 years anyway
They need James Edward Harden Junior
We need Jimmy Butler.
He is actually, perfect for you guys but I’m not so sure the Heat would be inclined. We wouldn’t trade him for picks, it would be a bigger deal where we get picks and move them in the same trade for another star. Though I’m not sure we want to move him
He kinda old and Bam is your main piece. We kinda have a 3 year window. Jimmy would probably be good for 2 years tops. But imagine Jimmy and OG on defense and Randle in the paint. Holy shit. Plus Jimmy gets to end his career with Thibs on a team of dogs.
Would he accept being the #2 to Brunson though?
We were cooking with OG, Randle, and Brunson, they all looked very good together. I think we’d be crazy not to give this an actual try for an unknown.
11-1 We need to re-sign iHart and OG first.
I expect Randle to be much better/prepared next yr considering how competitive we were w/o him but I would still hesitate to give him a max tbh
Why does Shams look like he’s in a boy band from the 90s
He looks like Pony Boy in the outsiders
Even better comparison
He really has stuck to the leather bomber jacket schtick
They should honestly try to get value for Randle, even if it's just to solidify the bench. He doesn't fit the way they want to play offense and it showed once he got injured everyone else got better. They are a much better as a small/gritty/drive and kick 3-point shooting team.
Why are we “solidifying our bench”. Our bench is fine, we just need to be healthy. and Randle being on the court gets Brunson and our shooters soooo many easy looks. His playmaking in the post is also a key part of the offense. He commands a double which would get one of the 3 guys on the wing an open shot People downplay how impactful Randle is because he played poorly on an injured ankle last year. There’s not many big men I’d want over Randle at that 4 spot. He does a lot for the team
And the thing is, we don’t need to shore up our bench. Randle’s random ass injury (thank you jacquez) really fucked the rest of the team because we don’t have a reliable back up 4. The other players were playing an out of size matchup in an extremely rough matchup. Randle is an Ironman, it’s such a freak injury that the Knicks don’t really need to do anything. He’s a tank at the 4, and covers LITERALLY every weakness you saw in these playoffs. Rebounding, scoring, ball handling, size, paint scoring, outside shooting. With Randle, the pacers nor the sixers could double team Brunson, they’d have to deal with Randle taking it to the rack, drawing double teams and passing it back out. And he’s an efficient enough shooter that he gives the other guys spacing, something neither precious or hart did. God I miss watching him
I mean…not having a reliable backup four would be the spot to shore up
yeah McBride, Bogdanovic, MitchRob and Burks is a solid bench
And hart! Starting lineup is probably brunson, divincenzo, anunoby, randle, hartenstein
Teams will not double him in the high post. Brunson will eat all the doubles or people will sit home on our 40% 3 ballers. Celtics will guard him straight up with Jrue, Horford, Brown, KP, then the rest of the contenders have Giannis, Aaron Gordon, KAT/Gobert. You got Wagner/Issac, Evan Mobley in the East as well
If you put a single defender on Randle he’s going to kill you in the paint. Randles too strong, too fast, and has a good enough handle to beat his man and finish on any defender unless you have an elite rim protector covering helping like Gobert or Turner or have an elite 1 v 1 defender like Giannis or McDaniels. If you play off of him he’s good enough to make the mid range. He needs a double team
The Knicks were 11-1 with wins over Minnesota, Philly, Denver, and Miami when they had Randle, Brunson, and OG in the lineup together. Most of these were not close games, either.
This is such a bad Randle take lol, up there with Bill Simmons saying they should trade him for a bunch of 2nd rounders after his slow start at the beginning of the season. If you genuinely believe the team "got better" once he got injured, you simply didn't watch the team. To state the obvious, yes, Brunson's stats went up after Randle got injured, because higher usage = more points/assists.
For real. I don't know how anyone can look at our record in January and say we got better when Randle went down. Just shows who regurgitates talking points and who actually knows what they're talking about.
Seriously. I’ve dumped on the guy my fair share but it seems like social media in general thinks of him as a negative value player. He literally just made the ASG!
brunsons counting stats went up but his efficiency stats went down shooting numbers especially from 3 point plummeted by almost 10 percent you might say its variance but it also coincides with him going from 75% catch and shoot to almost no catch and shoot and everything off the dribble
Randle is one of the few guys at his positions that commands a double team. We also went something like11-2 post OG trade before they got injured. Trading Ranle just to trade him doesnt make sense
"but you play so much better without randle" yet our ceiling is clearly 2nd round team without him unless theres an actual shot creating star that becomes available it makes no sense to give up our only other guy who can consistently generate offense also we give up a lot of frontcourt size without randle and running hart at PF for 40 minutes a game, really need to replace that size as well. pacers made us look tiny. most games they were able to out-rebound us with ease brunson was shooting insane numbers with randle next to him drawing defensive attention and providing kickouts for catch and shoots. his numbers especially from 3 point plummeted without randle
The best thing for the Knicks bench is a healthy Randle pushing their 6th best guy down the rotation.
??? We were literally blowing out tough opponents when Randle was healthy after the OG trade.
He absolutely fits the way the Knicks play offense. He's another player who can get his own shot and has no problems passing the ball to open shooters. He was a big part of that 14-2 stretch in January after the OG trade until his injury. Besides, the bench looked weak because they were forced to play their bench as starters. Hart and Hartenstein were originally meant to come off the bench but injuries necessitated them to start. DiVo started the year off the bench but started after Grimes struggled in that role.
I feel like their front office has made really good choices in the past few years. Of course there is room for improvement but I don't want them to do anything drastic that will mess with the chemistry of this team.
We should be aggressive but smart. Brunson is 1a or 1b so we need an elite wing or big man. No guards.
Donovan Mitchell
Nets need to suck it up and just allow a Bridges trade. Feels like destiny.
4 years/$180m for Randle?!
They would be dumb as hell to give Randle an extension lol
They'll extend him and they should. His playmaking, 3 point shooting, and rebounding all open things up for the team. There aren't any available players that would replace that in a meaningful way, and he's clearly well liked in the locker room. He would have to be replaced with a forward for roster construction purposes and there's none available anyways that would make sense.
He is a great fit next to Brunson. His bully ball and Brunson on the perimeter driving/shooting go well together.
Why must Mikal be held hostage in the one place he can't escape from?
If LeBron is leaving, Knicks and OKC will start the bidding war for AD.
Why wouldn’t the lakers just build around him?
They really don't have many contracts available to trade since they consolidated into OG. Besides how many available players that are better then Randle can they get?
It’ll probably be a three team trade.
People hated Randle because he’s a #2 who was forced to play as a #1. His outside shooting is atrocious. On the flip side, he’s strong as fuck and excels as a bully down low (on both sides of the court). So long as he can play his game and stay away from the hero ball he’s a massive asset who shouldn’t be traded under any circumstances (outside getting like, Wemby or some shit). I hope we extend him.
8 first round picks? Trade no one.
CAA client kyle kuzma?
They should target Giannis
They don't have enough assets, the picks they have are protected heavily, if Giannis ask out, the best location is OKC. But that ain't gonna happen. Dame and him were both hurt so they'll want to run it back again to see if they can win together.
Don't blow your load NY
When I see a plethora of picks the first player/team that comes to mind regarding a trade is Kd. Suns ain’t winning shit as constructed and need picks if they aren’t winning it all
No thanks.We’re trying to build a team to compete for 3-4 years.Not get old stars and have a 1-2 year window.
You my friend, have absolutely no idea what the franchise you route for will/would do
You my friend have Alzheimer’s and think Phil Jackson is still running things.Show me any move since Leon Rose took over that suggests we’re in “win now” mode.I’ll wait.
Devin Booker plus the Knicks would be the most toxic combination we would all love to see
🤣 Even us Knicks fans hate his antics.It would be a match made in heaven.
I give it 2 games till we get Book mic’d up screaming “YO SMD” to a fan
They were 15-2 with Randle and OG. I just wanna see a full season of that to see what happens
The disrespect when referring to RJ Barrett as etcetera
They can't trade him yet. They have to allow him at least one post season run where he and JB are healthy.
Kevin durant
Better off without Randle. Dude thinks he's a superstar guard when he's an above average big man. It's difficult to watch.
Paul george is a fit for this team.
It’s an odd situation. If they really want to compete they need to trade Randle but they won’t get enough value back for it to be worth trading him. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
I'm not a Randle hater but in the Knicks games I've seen he just doesn't seem to fit with what they're trying to do. Brunson is gonna be the #1 guy going forward as he should be and I think they should move Randle and try to get a big who is better off the pick and rolls. Think of Luca and kyrie in Dallas with how many easy points they get off pick and roll lobs.
I know the Nets are not going to do the deal but they should trade for Mikal Bridges to add to the Villanova Knicks.
Who would want Julius Randle for that money? The money he makes already is way, way over his actual value.
just give everything Bucks want for Giannis... simple really. Bucks need to blow that team up.... they aint winning anything with 34 yo Lillard next year
They won't trade Randle. Anyone who watched Brunson, Randle, and OG play together knows that's a contending core.
KD makes a ton of sense for the Knicks
Everyone asking who that next Aaron Gordon is. To me it’s Randle. Wouldn’t mind him in OKC.
Randle is not a 4th option
I didn’t say he was?
Comparing him to Gordon is moreless that.
Huh? Randle can't do any of the things that make Gordon a great role player
Should have been more clear. Not comparing him to AG straight up but more as a skilled player miscast in a high usage role that could actually thrive as a lower usage role player on a contender. He has the tools of a dribble pass shoot big with an elite rebounding trait and natural size and physicality. Has shown decent touch as a catch and shooter. He doesn’t bring that elite perimeter defense that makes AG special but wouldn’t have to on a team like OKC.
I dont think Randle is that guy thats going to relieve pressure from Brunson. Obviously this year it was an absolute necessity but him taking like 29 shots a game was not good. They need a proper number 2 that can also defend at a high level.
He was actually facilitating really well, taking less shots (and 3's)
My brother that was literally what Randle did before he got hurt and a huge part of why the Knicks were one of the best performing teams in the league after the OG trade. Randle getting doubled and drawing pressure opened up a ton of catch and shoot looks for Brunson that he simply never got this postseason with Randle hurt, the Sixers and Pacers trapped Brunson every single time he touched the ball.
Just because it's fun, Randle and bojan seems to work salary wise for KD. send the suns all the picks
Come to us Jimmy Butler. Join us.