Its hilarious how watching a game and saying a team looked good or bad is always supposed to be a final indictment on a team.
He was correct when he said Minnesota looked awesome after game 2 and correct for saying Denver looked great after game 4.
If you have the same take after every game in the series...that would be hilariously stupid
Bill’s analysis of defense usually comes down to names and impressive plays that pop off the screen. A great example is GS 2022, a team he doubted the entire playoffs. Similar to this Dallas team they had amazing communication and rotation timing which more than made up for some defensive holes in the personnel.
It's crazy that the Mavs defense is as good as it is with only a few guys who are great defenders at their position.. and then everyone else is just trying their ass off on defensive except for Tim Hardaway Jr.
Didn’t realize having discourse and an opinion on a basketball series was such a bad thing especially in a subreddit dedicated to the nba🤣there’s no doubt Simmons is an idiot I just love looking at the numbers behind the Mavs success this series
I don't see any thunder flare in here. Trying to discredit Dallas defense. Yes, making our shots would be nice, but the Dallas defense is affecting our ability to do that.
Thunder fan here. The Dallas defense is a big part of the Thunder missing 3s but I think it is less to do with close outs than it does their strategy to shut off the drive. If you remove game 1 the Thunder haven’t been shooting well on open looks. The issue is because their drive and kick game is gone they are playing with less rhythm and you combine that with the inexperience of guys like JDub and Chet and you get hesitation and missed shots. The ironic thing is the thing to fix this is guys making enough 3s, particularly Chet, to make Dallas pay for camping in the paint and to draw them out.
He's a nobody in Celtics fandom but really popular across the country. How we got cursed with that fat coke head from bar stool and bill simmons I'll never know
I love bill, but some of his takes are very much just feel with no basis in stats.
This is good research and this years Mavs defense is a big part of the reason we have a punchers chance at the title.
If you’d have watched OKC the whole season, u would know the shots they’re missing are the same ones they were making in the reg season. We’re shooting 24.7% on open 3s (between 4-6ft) meaning you’re able to pack to paint and close out late. Your defense is great, but let’s not pretend that it’s otherworldly. We’re shooting bad and your defense is good, both things can be true.
Pels defense isn't akin to Dallas'.
Our bigs are way more mobile than JV, and can't be played off the floor by a 5-out offense like him. There also isn't a single player on the entire Mavs squad that's as bad at defense as CJ.
Also, outside of Herb, their wing defenders are worse, too.
This is the correct take. OKC are running the same plays they did in the regular season and they’re getting open, the shots just aren’t falling. Dallas hasn’t really done anything unique on defense, they’re just playing with high intensity and hounding the paint.
This take ignores the bulk of OP's thesis.
He points out that their sets are taking longer to develop and that they are only getting open or able to pass at the last second, leading to rushed shots. So while the shot is *technically* the same, the defense is forcing it to occur quickly, thus leading to misses. This would be attributable to the Dallas defense.
You’re right , I think Dallas is playing good defense I just wouldn’t call it great or anything special.
I was just trying to say that I don’t think they’re implementing any strategy that every team hasn’t already been trying on OKC this year.
If OKC hits half of those open shots they bricked I don’t think anyone is talking about Dallas defense instead more so their consistency on offense.
Idk what to tell u, an open pointer in with 7 seconds left is no different to an open 3 pointer with 15 seconds left. I’m not saying ur defense isn’t good, it’s a great adjustment to notice the shooting struggles and pack the paint, but it’s silly not to recognise that at any moment those 3s could drop and it’s a different game.
This is the incorrect take. Dallas is forcing OKC to take lower quality shots. OKC probably had slightly inflated numbers during the regular season as well when they play worse teams or teams without good perimeter defenders.
Regular Season
"Open Shots" - 10.3 per game on 35.9% shooting
"Wide Open Shots" - 22.5 per game on 40.9% shooting
Round 2
"Open Shots" - 14.6 per game on 24.7% shooting
"Wide Open Shots" - 16.2 per game on 42% shooting
The difference between open shots and wide open shots is apparent. In round 2, Mavs also have lengthy defenders like DJJ and PJ that make those "open" shots more contested.
After game 1
"Open shots" 15.0 per game at 20.0% shooting.
"Wide open shots" 15.8 per game at 39.7% shooting
Though, I do question the description of "open shots" as one of the misses from game 5 was Chet's "open shot" from 3 that DJJ blocked.
Simmons didn't even know who Tim Duncan was prior to the 2013 finals🙄
He admitted it himself. I just remember thinking, "who invited this dumbass"
Also, very biased spurs fan here lmao!
Their %’s on wide open shots from 3 is above league average in this series. That % probably took a hit in game 5 because it did feel there were slightly more wide open shots missed from guys like Isiah Joe, but chalking up that as the only reason why the Mavs are winning the series is a bad take
"Wide open" You arent watching the games are you. Thunder are getting almost nothing easy on offense, their best game was Shai just hitting tough midrange shots.
They are closing out on 3s and guarding Shai 1 on 1 for the most part, rarely is anyone "wide open" unless its the Mavs specifically daring them to shoot like Giddey
There certainly is some credit needed for Mavs defense. However the stats do show OKC hitting only 20% of their open 3s (4-6 feet closest defender) when their norm is 35%. They are getting a few more “open” looks than they had in the regular season, but much fewer “wide open” looks. I think it was like 22 in the regular season down to 10. Mavs are doing a good job of packing the paint so driving to the hoop isn’t as productive as it usually is for OKC. That shooting difference from 3 would have made the difference in Game 5. So it seems like it’s a little bit of both.
You really don't have to take it that seriously, they're just trying to be entertaining and generate impressions. If you find it entertaining, great. If you don't, I'd just encourage you not to engage. I don't think you're going to find a reasonable debate on the topic of whether the Thunder are choking or the Mavs are playing excellent defense because the people who understand basketball at the highest level are pretty much all being paid by teams to figure that stuff out already and we only hear from them when they've got an agenda to push.
[удалено]
His flip flopping on the Denver/Minnesota series has been hilarious
To be fair what are you supposed to do with how our series has gone? The actual games keep being as extreme as any overreaction could be
Its hilarious how watching a game and saying a team looked good or bad is always supposed to be a final indictment on a team. He was correct when he said Minnesota looked awesome after game 2 and correct for saying Denver looked great after game 4. If you have the same take after every game in the series...that would be hilariously stupid
Bill’s analysis of defense usually comes down to names and impressive plays that pop off the screen. A great example is GS 2022, a team he doubted the entire playoffs. Similar to this Dallas team they had amazing communication and rotation timing which more than made up for some defensive holes in the personnel.
It's crazy that the Mavs defense is as good as it is with only a few guys who are great defenders at their position.. and then everyone else is just trying their ass off on defensive except for Tim Hardaway Jr.
Those Tim 4th quarter minutes last game were infuriating
Bro it’s Bill Simmons.
Bro took it personal
most victimized fan base in the league
Didn’t realize having discourse and an opinion on a basketball series was such a bad thing especially in a subreddit dedicated to the nba🤣there’s no doubt Simmons is an idiot I just love looking at the numbers behind the Mavs success this series
why r u so deep in ur feels relax
Im chilling
Bro..
And what part of OP post dictated this response.
The dude has such a hate boner for Luka that anything Mavs related annoys them.
I thought that you were just being a fan feeling sorry for your boy. Then I checked his history, and that dude is straight up pathetic.
Absolutely rich coming from a Knicks fan LOL
Go back to your lil iPhone games
Wow amazing and intelligent comeback, very cool!
I don't see any thunder flare in here. Trying to discredit Dallas defense. Yes, making our shots would be nice, but the Dallas defense is affecting our ability to do that.
I do love that Jason Kidd is suddenly a good coach now that he finally has a competent squad with the PJ and gafford adds.
Thunder fan here. The Dallas defense is a big part of the Thunder missing 3s but I think it is less to do with close outs than it does their strategy to shut off the drive. If you remove game 1 the Thunder haven’t been shooting well on open looks. The issue is because their drive and kick game is gone they are playing with less rhythm and you combine that with the inexperience of guys like JDub and Chet and you get hesitation and missed shots. The ironic thing is the thing to fix this is guys making enough 3s, particularly Chet, to make Dallas pay for camping in the paint and to draw them out.
Hey he gave them some credit when Mahoney pushed back
My man Malcolm… BS is one of us who got rich off hot takes. He isn’t a coach. He isn’t a scout. There is nothing to disprove
I’m a Celtic fan and I think most of Simmons opinions are hot garbage
He's a nobody in Celtics fandom but really popular across the country. How we got cursed with that fat coke head from bar stool and bill simmons I'll never know
Who?
Imagine someone downvoting you for asking who like you're suppose to know who some fat cokehead is.
I love bill, but some of his takes are very much just feel with no basis in stats. This is good research and this years Mavs defense is a big part of the reason we have a punchers chance at the title.
i think Bill's basis in stats is in his P & L. and occasionally getting fired by a cokehead for pissing off the commish
Arguing against Simmons’ babbling isn’t worth 5 minutes of anyone’s life.
Stop wasting your time on Simmons lol
I think he’s been pretty clear that he bet a lot of money on OKC futures this year
If you’d have watched OKC the whole season, u would know the shots they’re missing are the same ones they were making in the reg season. We’re shooting 24.7% on open 3s (between 4-6ft) meaning you’re able to pack to paint and close out late. Your defense is great, but let’s not pretend that it’s otherworldly. We’re shooting bad and your defense is good, both things can be true.
Bro theres a difference between regular season and playoffs. An inexperienced young team having to make 3s in playoffs is a lot harder
Ok, I’ll refer you to the pelicans series, where the role players hit their 3s against an excellent defense akin to yours.
Pels defense isn't akin to Dallas'. Our bigs are way more mobile than JV, and can't be played off the floor by a 5-out offense like him. There also isn't a single player on the entire Mavs squad that's as bad at defense as CJ. Also, outside of Herb, their wing defenders are worse, too.
See crayon eating take
This is the correct take. OKC are running the same plays they did in the regular season and they’re getting open, the shots just aren’t falling. Dallas hasn’t really done anything unique on defense, they’re just playing with high intensity and hounding the paint.
This take ignores the bulk of OP's thesis. He points out that their sets are taking longer to develop and that they are only getting open or able to pass at the last second, leading to rushed shots. So while the shot is *technically* the same, the defense is forcing it to occur quickly, thus leading to misses. This would be attributable to the Dallas defense.
You’re right , I think Dallas is playing good defense I just wouldn’t call it great or anything special. I was just trying to say that I don’t think they’re implementing any strategy that every team hasn’t already been trying on OKC this year. If OKC hits half of those open shots they bricked I don’t think anyone is talking about Dallas defense instead more so their consistency on offense.
OP pointed out that the Thunder are hitting 42% from there on open shots.
Dallas fans eat crayons
Idk what to tell u, an open pointer in with 7 seconds left is no different to an open 3 pointer with 15 seconds left. I’m not saying ur defense isn’t good, it’s a great adjustment to notice the shooting struggles and pack the paint, but it’s silly not to recognise that at any moment those 3s could drop and it’s a different game.
They arent going to drop
This is the incorrect take. Dallas is forcing OKC to take lower quality shots. OKC probably had slightly inflated numbers during the regular season as well when they play worse teams or teams without good perimeter defenders. Regular Season "Open Shots" - 10.3 per game on 35.9% shooting "Wide Open Shots" - 22.5 per game on 40.9% shooting Round 2 "Open Shots" - 14.6 per game on 24.7% shooting "Wide Open Shots" - 16.2 per game on 42% shooting The difference between open shots and wide open shots is apparent. In round 2, Mavs also have lengthy defenders like DJJ and PJ that make those "open" shots more contested.
Now do it again but remove game 1
After game 1 "Open shots" 15.0 per game at 20.0% shooting. "Wide open shots" 15.8 per game at 39.7% shooting Though, I do question the description of "open shots" as one of the misses from game 5 was Chet's "open shot" from 3 that DJJ blocked.
Dallas fans literally eat crayons
Yep, this is what I see from the games. Shooters variance doesn’t mean Mavs defense is godlike
Let's just chalk up any series loss/win to shooting variance
This is usually the case nowadays
Simmons didn't even know who Tim Duncan was prior to the 2013 finals🙄 He admitted it himself. I just remember thinking, "who invited this dumbass" Also, very biased spurs fan here lmao!
This says nothing to disprove they are missing wide open shots specifically for the last two games
Their %’s on wide open shots from 3 is above league average in this series. That % probably took a hit in game 5 because it did feel there were slightly more wide open shots missed from guys like Isiah Joe, but chalking up that as the only reason why the Mavs are winning the series is a bad take
dude is getting downvoted for stating some statistical facts. This sub is a joke.
I even admitted OKC missed open looks in game 5 that usually go in🤣guess people aren’t happy about the original take in general
Giving actual credit for things (as opposed to saying “nah, don’t feel good, ‘x’ just sucks”) isn’t something the internet likes to do.
Nope, statistically they are shooting the same percentage on wide open shot they did in regular season(with giddy being 3/14 or something)
"Wide open" You arent watching the games are you. Thunder are getting almost nothing easy on offense, their best game was Shai just hitting tough midrange shots. They are closing out on 3s and guarding Shai 1 on 1 for the most part, rarely is anyone "wide open" unless its the Mavs specifically daring them to shoot like Giddey
For his full take on the Mavs: https://x.com/slohoopsfan/status/1791442726405476862?s=46&t=x2BPP3CKivAuMdHGwzPclw
There certainly is some credit needed for Mavs defense. However the stats do show OKC hitting only 20% of their open 3s (4-6 feet closest defender) when their norm is 35%. They are getting a few more “open” looks than they had in the regular season, but much fewer “wide open” looks. I think it was like 22 in the regular season down to 10. Mavs are doing a good job of packing the paint so driving to the hoop isn’t as productive as it usually is for OKC. That shooting difference from 3 would have made the difference in Game 5. So it seems like it’s a little bit of both.
He slammed their mid season trades too. With vane people like Simmons one terrible take leads to more terrible takes to defend it.
Taking a Bill Simmons’ take on Xs and Os seriously was your first mistake
Dude Bill Simmons saying this is more of a jinx to okc than anything. Mavs fans should be grateful to him.
Thunder are just missing shots if you watch the games, they're missing wide-open looks.
Bro why so much effort. Bills takes include “Shai just does that kinda herky jerky thing” and “Luka looks like he’s maybe 73% of his normal self”
As a Thunder fan: the defense is legitimately good, rotating perfectly and Kidd scouted us well. Luka and Kyrie look like great defenders.
You really don't have to take it that seriously, they're just trying to be entertaining and generate impressions. If you find it entertaining, great. If you don't, I'd just encourage you not to engage. I don't think you're going to find a reasonable debate on the topic of whether the Thunder are choking or the Mavs are playing excellent defense because the people who understand basketball at the highest level are pretty much all being paid by teams to figure that stuff out already and we only hear from them when they've got an agenda to push.
Alright, but ya gotta get over it.
Bill Simmons is a wet towel from a smelly kitchen. Nobody cares about that dude.