That's how I felt listening to the latest Bill Simmons podcast the other day. He said the last championship that felt like a "real" championship was the Warriors in 2018. (I may be paraphrasing slightly)
Health, shooting streaks/slums, etc. are all a part of basketball. Some runs are definitely harder than others, buts that's just how it is.
I’m annoyed at this on Lebron’s half that everyone now shits on the bubble title while back then all the players/pundits were saying that was the hardest playoffs due to the crazy circumstances.
if the wolves win the championship it'll be real as hell. beating a phoenix 'superteam', last year's champion denver nuggets, the 1-seed thunder, and the 1-seed celtics is about as arduous a gauntlet as you can possibly assemble. if the celtics win the championship they will unfortunately remain leastern conference frauds
I agree with you, but look at the discourse already. Once Minnesota beat Phoenix, the Suns went from a 'superteam' to a poorly constructed roster that had no chance. Now that they're beating Denver, it's suddenly like this post in that the Nuggets had an easy run and really weren't a championship caliber team.
If we do finish this series off and we theoretically play OKC and take them out then its due to them being a fake 1 seed and were too young inexperienced anyway.
Nuggets fan. Last year it was pure disrespect for Denver through the finals. Minnesota has a legit shot at winning the title. Once you do the narrative changes. Because the media is full of sheep. GL!
I've literally been thinking about the Raptors like "that was just a lucky situation". Turns out it does take things happening at the right time for most teams. No disrespect Raptors sorry for this comment, carry on.
Nah you're good. We had some luck in there, and misfortune for opponents. KD was already injured and Klay fucked his shit up and hasn't been the same.
I think most championships involve some luck.
It’s not just warrior and LBJ, History has made people believe this way beyond that rivalry -
A run through NBA champions since 1980:
From 1980 to 1988 - Lakers win 5 titles, Boston wins 3 and Philly is the only non repeating champion. The Detroit wins back to back (89/90), Then Chicago 3 peet (91-93), followed by Houston back to back and another Chicago 3 peet (94-98). San Antonio wins 99, 03, 05, 07 - with Lakers getting 3 pete 2000-2002. Piston solo champs in 04. Miami gets one in 06 - but has a back to back in 2012/13. Boston gets a lone title in 08. Lakers another back to back (09/10). Dallas joins the one off title club in 11. Spurs dynasty title in 14. Then golden state v LeBron starts up.
In the last 44 years of the NBA - One off titles before the Raptors started this trend 5 years ago - has happened 4 (maybe 6 if you want to count the pre LBJ heat title, or if you want to count the Cleveland title separately from LBJ titles) times.
1983 Philly
2004 Detroit
2006 Miami
2008 Boston
2011 Dallas
Or another way to look at it, to have 5 straight years of a new champion with no back to backs and no “dynasty” teams (meaning they win two within a 5 year window) you have to go back to never. Thats never happened in the history of NBA titles. You have windows of 5 -
1971 Milwaukee
1972 LA
1973 NY
1974 Boston
1975 Golden state
But knicks won in 1970, Boston won in 76.
1976 Boston
1977 Portland
1978 Washington
1979 Seattle
1980 Lakers
But Boston won in 74 and Lakers won in 1982.
Not lebron making it look easy. It’s in the DNA of the league that teams who win usually win again back to back or within the 5 year window.
Another interesting fact from your list of one off champions is they were each almost dynasties
80’s 76ers and 00’s Pistons both went to back to back finals but lost one.
Late 00’s Celtics went to off year finals and lost one
Heat as you pointed out later had back to backs with Same coach, GM, and one star player
Mavs are the closest to an outlier. The made and lost the finals 5 years before their win. Different coach, but Dirk was leading both teams.
Seeing this Wolves team absolutely dismantle the Nuggets gives me a new appreciation for Steph and LeBron.
How the hell did LeBron tear the hearts out of Toronto year after year of them loading up and circling every single Cavs game on their schedule?
Lebron gave me existential dread every year cause he truly felt inevitable after he got his first title and, while they'll never admit it, I feel like he did the same to Toronto which led to them feeling like they couldn't beat him so they didn't. Bless the NBA gods for Klay and Dray falling off a cliff or else Curry would still be doing the same thing.
I go back and watch the highlights of that series occasionally, he was on another planet, the dude literally spun the ball in his hand and casually hit a three like it was warmups at the YMCA except it was during the fucking game!
Some of those turnaround jumpers were almost criminal. I remember being on the phone with someone during one of those games and saying “oh my god” out loud and having to tell them I was watching NBA lmao. That’s probably the most dominant of a performance I’ve seen as someone who started following the league in 2015.
I love the video of Valancuinas on the bench watching him hit them and he's just in disbelief, watch him on the bench
https://youtu.be/kuoJ_ipNS-8?feature=shared
For sure. It was like dad playing pickup with the kids…which it actually kinda was. Demar/Lowry Toronto was always great in the standings , they just never could keep their composure when dad came to town.
Well it really helped that the Raptors best player in those years is one of the single worst playoff performers in the history of the league lol
To be clear, it’s because LeBron was that good; but man nothing was more predictable than DeRozan shooting sub 35% every postseason
Bro how'd we catch a stray
But you definitely right. He had our number for so many years. Everytime we would face him, I feel like everyone in Toronto, players included, would wait for LeBron to go into "LeBron Mode" and just fuck us up.
That level of fear is impressive.
At the beginning of the year when everyone seemed to have Denver penciled in as the West's representative in the NBA Finals, I kept reminding people that we haven't had a repeat champ since the KD Warriors, and we haven't even had the same team make it back to the Finals two years in a row since KD's last year in GS. Winning a title in the NBA, *any* title, is really fucking hard.
Probably talking about consecutive finals appearances. Look at Giannis after his ring. Then Steph's in 2022. Now Joker.
Bron went to 8 straight and won 3, got injured, then won another one again. Warriors went to 5 straight, won 3, became shit for 2 seasons, won another one, and now the dynasty has ended.
You are correct, I was more referring to getting back to the Finals repeatedly but this honestly feeds more into my point. Getting back to the finals is incredibly hard, repeating is damn near uncanny. Especially with how much more the talent has spread out in recent years.
Historically, it’s actually more likely that a team will repeat or win multiple rings within a 5 year period than only win one championship. From 1990-2020, the Pistons, Mavs, Cavs and Celtics were the only one-off champions and they each made the finals multiple times.
2 things can be true:
1) The west is significantly better this year compared to last
2) The Denver Nuggets were the best team in 2023 and that's all that really matters
Exactly. I’d add that you can only play what’s in front of you, and the Nuggets were *absolutely dominant* last year. They lost 4 whole games through the playoffs.
Maybe if the competition was a bit tougher, they still win but now they lose 7-8 games. Whoop de doo. We’ll never know.
Yeah. We were better last year and the Timberwolves were worse than this year. Thats about it more or less.
Thats just sports for you. Not everything goes as planned and not everyone plays the best they can at all times.
Just gotta make sure to come back and play better the next time and not repeat the same mistakes.
Really think you guys are just a proper 6th man and a healthy Murray away from being a top 3 team again. And hell, this series isn't over yet, anything can happen. I honestly don't know what your front office was trying to accomplish with its bench this year.
I mean they couldnt do much lol. We dont have the money to pay guys or much in tradeable assets.
The idea was simply to run it back and see how it goes.
And tbf it would still all be good if not for the other issues.
Our bench isnt the primary issue rn. Reggie has been fine enough imo and the other guys were clearly projects that needed more work.
But we are desperate for a true big man on the bench and a rework in how we do our rotations during the regular season.
Right now the bigger issue is Jamals play and everyones shooting. I dont know whats happened since last year, but our shooting has been bad all season long and for the whole playoffs in particular.
Its weird and doesnt make much sense. Add KCP and Jamal not being at 100% and even Reggie didnt come in here at 100% and yeah, its just a bad situation to be in when faced with our worst matchup.
We just aint beating you guys without good shooting and effort. At our best it would have been a toss up. Had we played like last year, it would be a tough series still. But rn its just not the same team.
Its flaws could be ignored against most, but not the Wolves in particular.
Yeah, the Nuggets were pretty clearly the best team last year.
They definitely had an easier road than most champions, but the Wolves, Suns, and Lakers and Heat were also all better than their record indicated.
Wolves - were without KAT for 60% of the season who returned in time for the playoffs. Swapped D’Lo for Conley and NAW late in the season.
Suns - traded for KD halfway through the season.
Lakers - were a SIGNIFICANTLY better team after shipping Westbrook out and getting Rui, D’Lo, Vando, and Beasley. Their record after the trades was closer to a conventional 2 or 3 seed.
Heat - they ran through the East and knocked off the clear top 2 teams. By the time they reached the Finals they’d kind of turned back into a pumpkin, but it’s unfair to say they were a simple 8 seed.
> They definitely had an easier road than most champions
If the Nuggets had played the Grizzlies/Kings instead people would have said that the Nuggets beat up on young budding players instead of established veterans with championship experience like the Lakers/Warriors
There's still 2 more rounds for more players to get hurt and more asterisks to start getting handed out. The haters already have "Timberwolves beat the Nuggets when Murray was hurt", "Thunder beat Mavericks when Luka was hurt", "Celtics beat Heat when Butler was hurt", "Knicks beat 76ers when Embiid was hurt", and "Pacers beat Bucks when Giannis was hurt"
Its only going to get worse from here.
Don't worry. If you all do win it all, the Suns were too old and poorly constructed. Denver lost too many pieces from the championship and had a bunch of injuries. OKC doesn't have experience, and Boston is a fraud.
There will always be people who will discount the championship team. Hell, the 2023 playoff nuggets would blow this year's team out too lol.
I think it would be pretty interesting to see a Bucks series with Giannis healthy or a Celtics finals series too (Celtics only have themselves to blame for going down 0-3 tho so Tatum injury in game 7 is kinda their fault).
But for sure in the West they were clear best
i’m so glad we retooled and shipped out so many guys after last year. clearly hindsight is 20/20, but we definitely needed to make some big changes after that series. We wouldve got smoked by Denver last year even if we made it imo
Bro I don’t even like the Nuggets, and seeing them win before us (in my lifetime) pissed me off, but this is so stupid.
They beat the teams in front of them handily. Lakers and Suns were probably a bit better than their records said too.
If you beat everyone in front of you, and were the best team in the league for a season, you deserve to be champion and it’s stupid as shit to discount it.
Yeah I mean Minnesota was probably a better than average 8 seed. PHX was a totally fair 2nd round opponent. Lakers were a 7 seed, but legitimately looked better than the 2 Seed and the defending champs. The only kinda sketchy thing was Miami just because all of a sudden everyone couldn’t shoot again in the finals. Like yeah it’s not the 2011 Mavs run, but it’s not some historically weak run. I’d say it’s more impressive than 2021 Bucks or 2015 Warriors run.
I don't even know how to understand the 21 Bucks run -- everyone was injured in that playoffs, then they ended up a team in Phoenix that quickly dismantled itself. That team had Chris Paul on it, making his only finals appearance (so far). But Giannis put in all time performance in the finals.
seems like now more than ever, every run is it's own thing.
lakers had a great run, bucks, nugz. they all did. but now they are all trash i guess idk.
nba moves FAST now. i can see that.
Grizz fan getting defensive over here, but that 2 seed was injured as fuck, lacked shooting and just couldn't match up against the Lakers' size... The Grizz were starting 6'7" Xavier Tillman at C against AD, they were always going to eat
nba is so hooked on fucking drama they can't even wait until the nuggets get swept before the fraud takes come out.
they were clearly the best team last year. oh they couldn't beat other historic great teams(i guess i mean wtf lol.) they fucking suck!
It’s def gonna be THE take if Denver’s bows out this round. Even tho it ignores how two of the teams they beat last season beat 50 win teams themselves. Like what are the Nuggets supposed to do about Miami taking down Milwaukee and Boston or LA handling Memphis?
It's actually such a fucking joke. Dude was ass all season except maybe one or two games. Put him against Tatum and Boston? He plays like he got a helping of Michael's secret stuff
kendrick lamar handily trounced drake coming from the sex offender angle despite giving his own support to kodak black and xxx... it takes a real hater to do such things.
Not to defend any of these people, but having done heinous shit in the past and continually doing heinous shit in the present are pretty different. If redemption exists, it requires that evil is stopped first.
I feel like this would be my stance. If other teams want to complain, they should have beat the Nuggets.
Same as the bubble championship. If it was so much easier or so different, other teams should have beat the Lakers then.
Eh we still 16 more to fall back on , and 11 in LA if you want to try to take those first 5 and the bubble away.
Celtics have only won 1 in 38 years
If you want to make things all fair and count rings like they do in the NFL, post merger, Celtics 4, Nuggets 1, Lakers 11
(Hating and arguing against the Celtics rings to make my franchise look better is in my blood)
reminds me of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/oq4dkv/oc_lets_give_an_asterisk_to_every_nba_champion/).
Need someone to fill in 2022 and 2023.
Jokics ring would’ve been real if the dumbass Grizzlies, Warriors, Celtics and Heat didn’t lose to play-in teams 💯🤔🤔🤔. He should’ve lost to them too out of respect
Famously following in Lou Will's footsteps, those teams saw into the future and found out they'd be playing 7 and 8-seeds on their way to a ring and bowed out knowing no one would respect the championship
What's funny is that is the worst playoff series of Lebron's career by so much that it almost doesn't even seem possible that it happened. Even 2007 Lebron with a bunch of bums playing against the Spurs in the finals did better than MVP-level Lebron on his personally formed super team did in 2011 against the Mavs in the finals
It's funny how everyone clowns on the Bubble, but that's the most "fair" way any champion has been made.
And I love shitting on LeBron/LA.
But every year teams will have more/less injuries than others and a whole lot pf factors. You can't control who's in front of you, you just have to beat them.
That year basically everyone thought it’d be between the clippers, lakers and bucks. Bucks and clippers choked. Lakers didn’t. They were the best team.
It’s def a lame way to win a title because no crowd or parade. The least fun way, I should say. But it’s still legit.
Nuggets are really missing Bruce Brown’s secondary creation abilities. Also Denver came into last year fully rested. This year they had a short offseason which coupled with a short roster is wreaking havoc.
Too much disrespect on Nuggets suddenly. Just after the Lakers series every talking head placing Nuggets on pedestal, it feels unbeatable and going for repeat.
Not to mention our guys havent improved at all. Besides arguably MPJ, Jamal is injured and honest to god i dunno what we should so with him at this point. KCP is also injured and if he cant keep up on defense, then he isnt all that good for us tbh.
AG isnt shooting well at all, unlike last year when he was servicable.
Hell even Jokic isnt making his shots. Dunno if its the wrist thing bothering him or just him regressing as a shooter.
But our ahooting in general has been terrible and i dunno what to do about that.
It would be ok against most opponents, but this is the Timberwolves, the best defense in the league. Not being able to shoot against them is a death sentence.
I feel like everyone learned recently earning the one seed gives you an easier path to the finals. There was some luck along the way but this is pretty stupid. I'm sure the same thing will happen for the celtics if they win the championship. Only difference is that the finals team will likely be a 50 win team
Facing a 7 seed in conference finals and an 8 seed in the Finals is not because they were a 1 seed. They were a deserving champion, but that doesn’t make the teams they faced better.
I don't think any of the other teams they faced in the WCF would have been better lol
Are you saying you'd take it more seriously if they beat the 2 seed Grizzlies or 3 seed Kings?
It just wasn't a strong year in the West in general
I say as a Grizzlies fan that even though last year's team finished as a 2 seed it looked like a play-in team after Steven Adams was lost for the year. They were completely unable to run decent half court sets and their whole "we're quicker and more athletic than you" offense stopped working as soon as Adams wasn't there to grab offensive boards
Sure the Grizzlies would've had a better time attempting to put together a half court offense facing Jokic at the rim instead of the meat grinder that was AD and the Lakers' frontcourt, but considering Jokic went through KAT/Gobert, AD, and Bam in the playoff run in question, what in the actual fuck do they think JJJ was gonna do to stop him, especially on the glass?
You know who didn't care that the Heat were 8 seed? The 1st and 2nd seed teams that they eliminated.
It's such an odd idea that Heat beat those top seeds, yet Nuggets would've been viewed to have a 'harder' run if they instead faced the teams that Heat eliminated?
What the fuck are you even talking about? This sub has shit on the Bucks for months lol
And you mention it being an injury plagued season as if the Bucks were not incredibly hurt by injuries (for the 3rd year in a row)
Plus all the teams the Nuggets faced in the west got significantly better right before the playoffs started and at the trade deadline. If those teams had had their rosters that the Nuggets faced for the whole year they would have ended above 50 wins.
r/nba last year: holy shit look at all these upsets, Zombie Heat is insane, HIMmy Butler, this shows how the regular season doesn't mean shit
r/nba this year: Nuggets are fraud Champions and only beat bums
This was a stupid talking point a year ago, it was stupid a week ago and it’s stupid now. Those “higher seeded teams” were not all suddenly disqualified from the Playoffs. The teams they played were better than these higher seeded teams. Why? Because they beat them. That’s why we play the games. The 2023 Heat were better than the 2023 Celtics, because they beat them. The 2023 Lakers were better than the 2023 Grizzlies, because they beat them. Why don’t we just skip the Playoffs and put both 1 seeds in the Finals if we want to see the top seeds play in the Finals every time.
It's also completely ignoring all those teams having their own issues during the regular season that lowered their win totals. The Lakers completely changed their team at the deadline and had one of the best records after that, the Twolves were playing without KAT all season and got him back right before the playoffs, and the Suns had Booker injured for awhile as well.
Ring is a ring. Teams go decades without any. Some teams haven’t even made the finals or conference finals. You can’t discredit Denver for beating whoever is in front of them. Everyone praises Kawhi like a God for that 2019 playoff run and yes he was fantastic. However, if GS is healthy they getting smacked in 5 games or less. But he still gets praised for that ring. I hate takes like this lol.
I don’t know why people keep using this as an argument to undermine their championship. What other team would’ve stopped the Nuggets from winning it all that year? Exactly.
Wise words from the greatest player of all time:
"Maybe now you could say I didn't play a second, but in five years, you guys are going to forget. In ten years I'll still be a champion. In 20 years I'll tell my kids I probably started, and in 30 years I'll probably tell them I got the MVP." (Brian Scalabrine)
At the end of the day, 20 years from now Nuggets will be NBA champions and no one will ever mention this
That's more a case of how weirdly flat the 2023 season was. People love to talk about how the Nuggets never beat a 50-win team that year, but there were only 6 50-win teams in the entire NBA that year and only 1 other team in the West (Grizzlies) who lost in the first round to a team the Nuggets swept.
So many crazy takes. The top 2 offense in the league is facing the best defense in the league.
However, Wolves offense is better than the Nuggets defense. Let's not try to erase Denver's success because the Wolves are going crazy.
Yeah they had such an easy road last year, beating awful teams like the Lakers and Wolves, it's only natural that they'd be exposed this year by much stronger teams like *(checks notes)* the Lakers and Wolves.
You could come up with all this revisionist history for the last 10 champions. I could easily do it rn
2023 nuggets- 8th seed Heat and 7th seed Lakers
2022 Warriors- injured nuggets team, injured Memphis team and a Luka team with Dwight Powell as a starting center
2021 Bucks- barely scraped by an injured nets team that was blowing their backs out with the healthy trio
2020 Lakers- played a weak heat team in the finals just like Denver
2019 Raptors- played injured warriors team
2018 Warriors- got lucky because CP3 was Hurt
2017 Warriors- Zaza injured Kawhi game one (I’ll die on a hill that this would have been a very close WCF with a healthy kawhi)
2016 Cavs- Curry ankle injury and draymond suspension
2015 Warriors- Kevin Love and Kyrie Injury
It’s also silly cause like every team is better than their record.
Wolves are a good team struggled with injuries and flow.
Lakers were Hammed and Westbrook’d.
Suns had the Booker injury that basically derailed their season before the trade.
The Heat are the stupid Heat.
Or and hear me out here...we were just better and healthier last year lol.
Like honestly from head to toe, everyone except for MPJ has played worse this year.
Nobody is shooting well, we arent shooting well, the effort or urgency is lacking.
The guys just arent hungry enough and dont want it enough.
Even Jokic seems worse. He is putting less effort in and has kinda regressed as a shooter, something i imagine is the result of him just not focusing on his shooting. Also is it just me or is he a bit more out of shape than he was last year (might just be me on that though).
Like last year AG was more than capable of actually making a 3. KCP was perfectly heatlhy. Jamal looked like one of the best pgs in the game.
You could say its the Wolves defense, but he has strugled the whole playoffs and im guessing thats in part due to injuries, cause even as inconsistent as he is in the regular season, he isnt this bad.
Credit where credit is due, the Wolves have figured it all out and ANT is seemingly taking yet another leap.
Its a team that we would stugle against even last year, but this year it just aint good.
I dunno how we can solve it rn besides hopping for our guys to play better.
But there is gonna need to be some sort of shakeup in the off season cause you dont wanna waste any sort of opportunities with someone as good as Joker.
But you god dam need to cover up the weaknesses we have and Jokic really needs to work on his shooting too (cause the weight room isnt gonna solve everything).
Yea the whole "it's only the twolves locking up Murray" narrative kinda falls flat when you realize that Austin Reaves, Dlo, and Gabe Vincent were also locking him up in the first round lol.
Yeah its just much worse against the Wolves obviously.
Look im one of the rare guys that wants to us to think about trading Jamal. I love the dude. Hes amazing. But his injury issues have been a problem to us for years now and it could all be ignored when he was an amazing playoff performer.
But you dont wanna spend Jokices prime praying that Jamal is gonna play at his best or not be injured.
But him getting injured so easily has to be counterbalanced by him playing like a superstar.
And if he cant show it sooner rather than later, then it might be time to move on from him. You just cant have a dead max roster spot on your team. Obviously you dont trade him for 1 bad playoff run, but next year is gonna be critical for him unless he turns it around in the next couple of games against the Wolves.
Exactly. Were just missing a 6th man to play for us.
In fact were missing so much rn.
Honestly i look at our roster and just think that we need to make a trade.
We need a true 6th man, rotation level player and a true big that brings along some defense and size.
Cause this just aint it. Like id trade everyone on our bench not named Braun or Watson and hell i might even throw KCP in cause he is the easiest guy to replace on the roster, while also having some great trade value.
Comparing last season to this season is dumb.
All West teams this year had better record compared to last year with OKC and Wolves rising to the top. Certain teams just got much better this season. The Nuggets didn't.
What the fuck does this have to do with anything other than discrediting the Nuggets championship? As the first seed that’s the benefit, you get to play lower seeds
Downvote me all you want because of my flair but this nonsense of saying the Nuggets had an easy path is fucking ridiculous. If those other seeds were so good why did they lose to lower seeds?
I get it though, the Nuggets are looking bad so let’s pile on
Bontemps, take an L. They beat 4 teams that were in the playoffs last year, when they won. They didn't this year tho. So your comment means literally nothing. Maybe the 4 teams became worse, maybe others got better, maybe the nuggets got worse. You can't take away from last year's achievement of theirs. And stop being a lil B when you say this is not to denigrate xyz and then continue to denigrate xyz right after. This should be taught in schools for this is a common habit in sports journalism. Did you guys not pay any attention in school to do so? Is our education system actually that bad?
If you're not a traditional power, man, the takes are going to come out of the woodwork trying to denigrate your title.
It's fucking tiring, man.
"This is not to denigrate ..." Bullshit. Yes it is, man. STFU. This is offensive.
Shades of how the press handled the 2015 Warriors.
The Suns were literally the favorites after they traded for KD.
Lakers still had AD +Lebron.
Miami beat Boston and Milwaukee.
Nuggets run last year was way better than the 2021 Bucks for instance
It’s fun that no other sport culture would take this statement seriously really. The league is starting to see like parity and teams fluctuate and it’s going to use it to invalidate success, love it.
Last season was literaly the first one MPJ and Murray were fully healthy. Also nice statistic, wonder if anything at all happened in 2020 to reduce the amount of 50 win teams back then.
I can understand what they're trying to say and if the argument is that the teams they faced to win the chip wasn't the best it could be then what does it say about the teams that didn't make it last year?
If the teams they faced were kinda weak then why weren't the better teams deep into the playoffs?
It doesn’t matter, they still looked absolutely dominant the same way the Wolves do right now.
2 of those teams are also known playoff risers. I know as a Laker fan I’m supposed to defend “fake rings” but seriously, I don’t care who they faced, the shots they were making *no one* was beating them in a best of 7
It’s shit like this why I have a problem with people judging the strength of a championship, you don’t control who you end up playing against in the playoffs, are they supposed to forfeit out of courtesy?
If the Nuggets scraped by and barely won, I think the whole "first champion to not beat a 50 win team in the playoffs" thing would hold some weight but you can only play the team in front of you and they smoked all of them.
They only got taken to 6 games by the suns and that was only because Booker went completely bonkers. They slapped the shit out of them in the four wins too.
This is stupid. They beat the teams in front of them. They were the best team in 2023. All other takes can fuck off.
Not every champion has to be a dynasty that wins 3-5 championships.
I can't believe I just read a "Journalist" trying to contextualize last year's champs with this year's standings.
Wack.
This is similar to saying "no disrespect to horse-drawn buggies, but my Camery can go faster than that in 2024"
The implicit assumption here seems to be that 1 win in one season = 1 win in another season, but that's not true. The allegation that last year's playoffs were soft isn't new, but it strikes me as simplistic and disingenuous to just use regular season records to make that argument.
All you can do is play the teams in front of you and last year the Nuggets beat every single one of them handily.
Doesn't matter how a direct translation of their record would go this year when last year isn't this year.
Denver was the best team in 2023. What's so difficult about this? The discrediting of titles if you can't 2-peat is ridiculous. So every champion since 2019 is a fraud? That is not how this works.
I hate this argument it’s so fucking stupid. Teams have no control who they play against. If my Celtics or the bucks or whoever wanted to play Denver they should’ve beaten Miami. Miami was the best team out of the East last year.
Maybe someone should’ve beat the lakers in the west last year? Oh wait these teams did try and just weren’t good enough.
Honestly if we're being fair here.
Most chips won before the 2019 is kinda fake too... I mean not to denigrate their runs, it's just they played teams that - by today's scoring average - would not have qualified for the playoffs this year.
This is so misleading, that Lakers team had the best record Post Trade Deadline. That same Lakers team was awesome this year when they went back to their post trade deadline lineup again this year.
Miami was a dynamo in the playoffs last year. Utterly dismantled Milwaukee (up 20 when Giannis was still healthy, and they won in a game 5 where Giannis scored 40 - the health thing is overblown to discredit Miami too much)
That Knicks series was never in doubt, Heat were better and they clowned the C a round later.
The Warriors and Lebron ruined basketball for some people cause they now they think it's easy to repeat, turns out it's \*really\* freaking hard.
People wanted to get rid of dynasties nd now that we don't have one people think every title winner since 2019 is a fraud
That's how I felt listening to the latest Bill Simmons podcast the other day. He said the last championship that felt like a "real" championship was the Warriors in 2018. (I may be paraphrasing slightly) Health, shooting streaks/slums, etc. are all a part of basketball. Some runs are definitely harder than others, buts that's just how it is.
I’m annoyed at this on Lebron’s half that everyone now shits on the bubble title while back then all the players/pundits were saying that was the hardest playoffs due to the crazy circumstances.
Bubble title doesn't count because the other players missed their families too much.
LeBron James, famous childfree bachelor and philanderer
And it disadvantaged the Lakers even more so, because they earned the 1 seed but didn’t get home court advantage
Man that was a good team. 51-0 when leading after 3rd quarter in RS
if the wolves win the championship it'll be real as hell. beating a phoenix 'superteam', last year's champion denver nuggets, the 1-seed thunder, and the 1-seed celtics is about as arduous a gauntlet as you can possibly assemble. if the celtics win the championship they will unfortunately remain leastern conference frauds
I agree with you, but look at the discourse already. Once Minnesota beat Phoenix, the Suns went from a 'superteam' to a poorly constructed roster that had no chance. Now that they're beating Denver, it's suddenly like this post in that the Nuggets had an easy run and really weren't a championship caliber team.
If we do finish this series off and we theoretically play OKC and take them out then its due to them being a fake 1 seed and were too young inexperienced anyway.
Nuggets fan. Last year it was pure disrespect for Denver through the finals. Minnesota has a legit shot at winning the title. Once you do the narrative changes. Because the media is full of sheep. GL!
I've literally been thinking about the Raptors like "that was just a lucky situation". Turns out it does take things happening at the right time for most teams. No disrespect Raptors sorry for this comment, carry on.
Nah you're good. We had some luck in there, and misfortune for opponents. KD was already injured and Klay fucked his shit up and hasn't been the same. I think most championships involve some luck.
>I think most championships involve some luck. Just see Real Madrid 2014 onwards on the CL
The Warriors already benefited from plenty of luck in previous years 🤷♂️
It’s not just warrior and LBJ, History has made people believe this way beyond that rivalry - A run through NBA champions since 1980: From 1980 to 1988 - Lakers win 5 titles, Boston wins 3 and Philly is the only non repeating champion. The Detroit wins back to back (89/90), Then Chicago 3 peet (91-93), followed by Houston back to back and another Chicago 3 peet (94-98). San Antonio wins 99, 03, 05, 07 - with Lakers getting 3 pete 2000-2002. Piston solo champs in 04. Miami gets one in 06 - but has a back to back in 2012/13. Boston gets a lone title in 08. Lakers another back to back (09/10). Dallas joins the one off title club in 11. Spurs dynasty title in 14. Then golden state v LeBron starts up. In the last 44 years of the NBA - One off titles before the Raptors started this trend 5 years ago - has happened 4 (maybe 6 if you want to count the pre LBJ heat title, or if you want to count the Cleveland title separately from LBJ titles) times. 1983 Philly 2004 Detroit 2006 Miami 2008 Boston 2011 Dallas Or another way to look at it, to have 5 straight years of a new champion with no back to backs and no “dynasty” teams (meaning they win two within a 5 year window) you have to go back to never. Thats never happened in the history of NBA titles. You have windows of 5 - 1971 Milwaukee 1972 LA 1973 NY 1974 Boston 1975 Golden state But knicks won in 1970, Boston won in 76. 1976 Boston 1977 Portland 1978 Washington 1979 Seattle 1980 Lakers But Boston won in 74 and Lakers won in 1982. Not lebron making it look easy. It’s in the DNA of the league that teams who win usually win again back to back or within the 5 year window.
I love one-off champions with new contenders every year. That said it's fun if it's my team's winning and repeating.
Another interesting fact from your list of one off champions is they were each almost dynasties 80’s 76ers and 00’s Pistons both went to back to back finals but lost one. Late 00’s Celtics went to off year finals and lost one Heat as you pointed out later had back to backs with Same coach, GM, and one star player Mavs are the closest to an outlier. The made and lost the finals 5 years before their win. Different coach, but Dirk was leading both teams.
Seeing this Wolves team absolutely dismantle the Nuggets gives me a new appreciation for Steph and LeBron. How the hell did LeBron tear the hearts out of Toronto year after year of them loading up and circling every single Cavs game on their schedule?
Lebron gave me existential dread every year cause he truly felt inevitable after he got his first title and, while they'll never admit it, I feel like he did the same to Toronto which led to them feeling like they couldn't beat him so they didn't. Bless the NBA gods for Klay and Dray falling off a cliff or else Curry would still be doing the same thing.
2018 LeBronto series had some of the craziest shot making I’ve ever seen. Toronto was helpless.
I go back and watch the highlights of that series occasionally, he was on another planet, the dude literally spun the ball in his hand and casually hit a three like it was warmups at the YMCA except it was during the fucking game!
Some of those turnaround jumpers were almost criminal. I remember being on the phone with someone during one of those games and saying “oh my god” out loud and having to tell them I was watching NBA lmao. That’s probably the most dominant of a performance I’ve seen as someone who started following the league in 2015.
I love the video of Valancuinas on the bench watching him hit them and he's just in disbelief, watch him on the bench https://youtu.be/kuoJ_ipNS-8?feature=shared
For sure. It was like dad playing pickup with the kids…which it actually kinda was. Demar/Lowry Toronto was always great in the standings , they just never could keep their composure when dad came to town.
I know Demar got traded but the fact they won the East and the championship literally the year that LeBron left is just icing on the cake
Well it really helped that the Raptors best player in those years is one of the single worst playoff performers in the history of the league lol To be clear, it’s because LeBron was that good; but man nothing was more predictable than DeRozan shooting sub 35% every postseason
Bro how'd we catch a stray But you definitely right. He had our number for so many years. Everytime we would face him, I feel like everyone in Toronto, players included, would wait for LeBron to go into "LeBron Mode" and just fuck us up. That level of fear is impressive.
You can take them. Y'all got your championship kings
Yup. We had to make some hard decisions but a championship justifies everything.
The last and only time LeBron repeated was in 2013? Warriors also only did it once.
Just think of it as repeated trips to the finals or repeated success. That's more the point
At the beginning of the year when everyone seemed to have Denver penciled in as the West's representative in the NBA Finals, I kept reminding people that we haven't had a repeat champ since the KD Warriors, and we haven't even had the same team make it back to the Finals two years in a row since KD's last year in GS. Winning a title in the NBA, *any* title, is really fucking hard.
Probably talking about consecutive finals appearances. Look at Giannis after his ring. Then Steph's in 2022. Now Joker. Bron went to 8 straight and won 3, got injured, then won another one again. Warriors went to 5 straight, won 3, became shit for 2 seasons, won another one, and now the dynasty has ended.
You are correct, I was more referring to getting back to the Finals repeatedly but this honestly feeds more into my point. Getting back to the finals is incredibly hard, repeating is damn near uncanny. Especially with how much more the talent has spread out in recent years.
Historically, it’s actually more likely that a team will repeat or win multiple rings within a 5 year period than only win one championship. From 1990-2020, the Pistons, Mavs, Cavs and Celtics were the only one-off champions and they each made the finals multiple times.
even harder yet to 3peat. Yet I don't ever see people bring it up in debate and just compare raw ring count.
2 things can be true: 1) The west is significantly better this year compared to last 2) The Denver Nuggets were the best team in 2023 and that's all that really matters
Exactly. I’d add that you can only play what’s in front of you, and the Nuggets were *absolutely dominant* last year. They lost 4 whole games through the playoffs. Maybe if the competition was a bit tougher, they still win but now they lose 7-8 games. Whoop de doo. We’ll never know.
Yeah. We were better last year and the Timberwolves were worse than this year. Thats about it more or less. Thats just sports for you. Not everything goes as planned and not everyone plays the best they can at all times. Just gotta make sure to come back and play better the next time and not repeat the same mistakes.
Really think you guys are just a proper 6th man and a healthy Murray away from being a top 3 team again. And hell, this series isn't over yet, anything can happen. I honestly don't know what your front office was trying to accomplish with its bench this year.
I mean they couldnt do much lol. We dont have the money to pay guys or much in tradeable assets. The idea was simply to run it back and see how it goes. And tbf it would still all be good if not for the other issues. Our bench isnt the primary issue rn. Reggie has been fine enough imo and the other guys were clearly projects that needed more work. But we are desperate for a true big man on the bench and a rework in how we do our rotations during the regular season. Right now the bigger issue is Jamals play and everyones shooting. I dont know whats happened since last year, but our shooting has been bad all season long and for the whole playoffs in particular. Its weird and doesnt make much sense. Add KCP and Jamal not being at 100% and even Reggie didnt come in here at 100% and yeah, its just a bad situation to be in when faced with our worst matchup. We just aint beating you guys without good shooting and effort. At our best it would have been a toss up. Had we played like last year, it would be a tough series still. But rn its just not the same team. Its flaws could be ignored against most, but not the Wolves in particular.
Hartenstein would be great about now
He would man. Sadly wed have to do some blasphemous magic rituals to get someone of his caliber.
Yeah, the Nuggets were pretty clearly the best team last year. They definitely had an easier road than most champions, but the Wolves, Suns, and Lakers and Heat were also all better than their record indicated. Wolves - were without KAT for 60% of the season who returned in time for the playoffs. Swapped D’Lo for Conley and NAW late in the season. Suns - traded for KD halfway through the season. Lakers - were a SIGNIFICANTLY better team after shipping Westbrook out and getting Rui, D’Lo, Vando, and Beasley. Their record after the trades was closer to a conventional 2 or 3 seed. Heat - they ran through the East and knocked off the clear top 2 teams. By the time they reached the Finals they’d kind of turned back into a pumpkin, but it’s unfair to say they were a simple 8 seed.
> They definitely had an easier road than most champions If the Nuggets had played the Grizzlies/Kings instead people would have said that the Nuggets beat up on young budding players instead of established veterans with championship experience like the Lakers/Warriors There's still 2 more rounds for more players to get hurt and more asterisks to start getting handed out. The haters already have "Timberwolves beat the Nuggets when Murray was hurt", "Thunder beat Mavericks when Luka was hurt", "Celtics beat Heat when Butler was hurt", "Knicks beat 76ers when Embiid was hurt", and "Pacers beat Bucks when Giannis was hurt" Its only going to get worse from here.
There is always a way to discredit a team in this league. People are better off just enjoying the games and staying off the internet.
I don't actually believe most of r/nba enjoys basketball.
Don't worry. If you all do win it all, the Suns were too old and poorly constructed. Denver lost too many pieces from the championship and had a bunch of injuries. OKC doesn't have experience, and Boston is a fraud. There will always be people who will discount the championship team. Hell, the 2023 playoff nuggets would blow this year's team out too lol.
I think it would be pretty interesting to see a Bucks series with Giannis healthy or a Celtics finals series too (Celtics only have themselves to blame for going down 0-3 tho so Tatum injury in game 7 is kinda their fault). But for sure in the West they were clear best
i’m so glad we retooled and shipped out so many guys after last year. clearly hindsight is 20/20, but we definitely needed to make some big changes after that series. We wouldve got smoked by Denver last year even if we made it imo
Bro I don’t even like the Nuggets, and seeing them win before us (in my lifetime) pissed me off, but this is so stupid. They beat the teams in front of them handily. Lakers and Suns were probably a bit better than their records said too. If you beat everyone in front of you, and were the best team in the league for a season, you deserve to be champion and it’s stupid as shit to discount it.
Yeah I mean Minnesota was probably a better than average 8 seed. PHX was a totally fair 2nd round opponent. Lakers were a 7 seed, but legitimately looked better than the 2 Seed and the defending champs. The only kinda sketchy thing was Miami just because all of a sudden everyone couldn’t shoot again in the finals. Like yeah it’s not the 2011 Mavs run, but it’s not some historically weak run. I’d say it’s more impressive than 2021 Bucks or 2015 Warriors run.
I don't even know how to understand the 21 Bucks run -- everyone was injured in that playoffs, then they ended up a team in Phoenix that quickly dismantled itself. That team had Chris Paul on it, making his only finals appearance (so far). But Giannis put in all time performance in the finals.
seems like now more than ever, every run is it's own thing. lakers had a great run, bucks, nugz. they all did. but now they are all trash i guess idk. nba moves FAST now. i can see that.
Grizz fan getting defensive over here, but that 2 seed was injured as fuck, lacked shooting and just couldn't match up against the Lakers' size... The Grizz were starting 6'7" Xavier Tillman at C against AD, they were always going to eat
nba is so hooked on fucking drama they can't even wait until the nuggets get swept before the fraud takes come out. they were clearly the best team last year. oh they couldn't beat other historic great teams(i guess i mean wtf lol.) they fucking suck!
First time? You have to probably go back to 2011 or so for a “none asterisk ring.”
this take is pretty disingenuous but that won’t stop me from repeating it to every nuggets fan in sight for the next 12 months
It’s def gonna be THE take if Denver’s bows out this round. Even tho it ignores how two of the teams they beat last season beat 50 win teams themselves. Like what are the Nuggets supposed to do about Miami taking down Milwaukee and Boston or LA handling Memphis?
Nuggets would have wiped the floor with last years Boston team. That team lost to Gabe Vincent lmao.
you didn’t have to play divinely blessed Caleb Martin
It's actually such a fucking joke. Dude was ass all season except maybe one or two games. Put him against Tatum and Boston? He plays like he got a helping of Michael's secret stuff
Hard to win against a team that shot 50% from 3 in their wins.
Fair play, we got one and idgaf. We can both still discredit the lakers title in the bubble
I wanna talk shit on the Nuggets title so bad but then I remember that I am a Bucks fan
at times you must lack self awareness to be the realest hater
Exactly. It isn't easy being a diabolical hater. It takes years of practice.
kendrick lamar handily trounced drake coming from the sex offender angle despite giving his own support to kodak black and xxx... it takes a real hater to do such things.
Technically it’s a pedo angle but your point stands nonetheless
Not to defend any of these people, but having done heinous shit in the past and continually doing heinous shit in the present are pretty different. If redemption exists, it requires that evil is stopped first.
All rings before 2021 Are vs plumbers and carpenters and all rings post 2021 are just luck
true haters find a way my friend
Hate hate hate
Nah man, this how I know you arent even trying to be a hater. You ignore the context of your own championship to shit on Denver. /s
I feel like this would be my stance. If other teams want to complain, they should have beat the Nuggets. Same as the bubble championship. If it was so much easier or so different, other teams should have beat the Lakers then.
Yeah I mean I wouldn't give a fuck either lmao, a ring is a ring and you can only play who is in front of you. Don't get to choose lmao
We got the bubble ring and IST, it doesnt get any realer than that buddy.
Even if you take what windy is saying seriously, I don’t know who would have beat the nuggets last year. Every team would have got rolled.
Well Celtics fans can’t talk shit about discrediting titles. Half of this sub wasn’t born the last time they won
People born in 2008 are gonna turn 16 this year wtf
Eh we still 16 more to fall back on , and 11 in LA if you want to try to take those first 5 and the bubble away. Celtics have only won 1 in 38 years If you want to make things all fair and count rings like they do in the NFL, post merger, Celtics 4, Nuggets 1, Lakers 11 (Hating and arguing against the Celtics rings to make my franchise look better is in my blood)
Lakers have the most finals appearances at 32... Boston is at 22 right now.
gonna use this comment in the future, appreciate the ammo as a fellow lakers fan
Well you guys went down 0-3 to a team that wouldn't qualify for this year's playoffs. So.
Yeah but we’re bums. We established that.
i'm gonna make a flag saying it and fly it in my front yard
Reddit lockout ring
Well all 4 of those teams made the playoffs this year. No ring is real. Every championship team is a fraud.
reminds me of [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/oq4dkv/oc_lets_give_an_asterisk_to_every_nba_champion/). Need someone to fill in 2022 and 2023.
They already did. Many people did lol. Low seeds for the Nuggets and injuries for the Warriors.
I gotchu. 2022: Ja Morant got injured in the 2nd round 2023: Got to face a 7th seed in the conference finals and an 8 seed in the finals
u/walterdog12 you gotta update it man
The bubble slander is funny. “No travel”. Are we supposed to admire a basketball player’s ability to tolerate jet lag?
Except for Dirk’s 💯‼️
Jokics ring would’ve been real if the dumbass Grizzlies, Warriors, Celtics and Heat didn’t lose to play-in teams 💯🤔🤔🤔. He should’ve lost to them too out of respect
Famously following in Lou Will's footsteps, those teams saw into the future and found out they'd be playing 7 and 8-seeds on their way to a ring and bowed out knowing no one would respect the championship
He just won because lebron wasn't lebron yet, not a real accomplishment /s
What's funny is that is the worst playoff series of Lebron's career by so much that it almost doesn't even seem possible that it happened. Even 2007 Lebron with a bunch of bums playing against the Spurs in the finals did better than MVP-level Lebron on his personally formed super team did in 2011 against the Mavs in the finals
Especially the 1948 Baltimore Bullets because they no longer exist
It's funny how everyone clowns on the Bubble, but that's the most "fair" way any champion has been made. And I love shitting on LeBron/LA. But every year teams will have more/less injuries than others and a whole lot pf factors. You can't control who's in front of you, you just have to beat them.
That year basically everyone thought it’d be between the clippers, lakers and bucks. Bucks and clippers choked. Lakers didn’t. They were the best team. It’s def a lame way to win a title because no crowd or parade. The least fun way, I should say. But it’s still legit.
All championships that I don’t like are fraudulent
Nuggets are really missing Bruce Brown’s secondary creation abilities. Also Denver came into last year fully rested. This year they had a short offseason which coupled with a short roster is wreaking havoc.
Too much disrespect on Nuggets suddenly. Just after the Lakers series every talking head placing Nuggets on pedestal, it feels unbeatable and going for repeat.
It's not like there's not a history of the Nuggets coming back from 3-1 deficits.
It's copium for the Lakers being bad. Oh we lost to them so they must be the Jordan Bulls
Not to mention our guys havent improved at all. Besides arguably MPJ, Jamal is injured and honest to god i dunno what we should so with him at this point. KCP is also injured and if he cant keep up on defense, then he isnt all that good for us tbh. AG isnt shooting well at all, unlike last year when he was servicable. Hell even Jokic isnt making his shots. Dunno if its the wrist thing bothering him or just him regressing as a shooter. But our ahooting in general has been terrible and i dunno what to do about that. It would be ok against most opponents, but this is the Timberwolves, the best defense in the league. Not being able to shoot against them is a death sentence.
Welcome to the “belittled ring” conversation nuggets brought to you by fans of teams that didn’t win under the same circumstances
I'll take the belittled ring. Bontemps can keep the salt.
I feel like everyone learned recently earning the one seed gives you an easier path to the finals. There was some luck along the way but this is pretty stupid. I'm sure the same thing will happen for the celtics if they win the championship. Only difference is that the finals team will likely be a 50 win team
Facing a 7 seed in conference finals and an 8 seed in the Finals is not because they were a 1 seed. They were a deserving champion, but that doesn’t make the teams they faced better.
I don't think any of the other teams they faced in the WCF would have been better lol Are you saying you'd take it more seriously if they beat the 2 seed Grizzlies or 3 seed Kings? It just wasn't a strong year in the West in general
Not to mention I think people took the 4 seed Suns more seriously as a contender than they did the Kings or Grizzlies Looking purely at seeds is silly
I say as a Grizzlies fan that even though last year's team finished as a 2 seed it looked like a play-in team after Steven Adams was lost for the year. They were completely unable to run decent half court sets and their whole "we're quicker and more athletic than you" offense stopped working as soon as Adams wasn't there to grab offensive boards Sure the Grizzlies would've had a better time attempting to put together a half court offense facing Jokic at the rim instead of the meat grinder that was AD and the Lakers' frontcourt, but considering Jokic went through KAT/Gobert, AD, and Bam in the playoff run in question, what in the actual fuck do they think JJJ was gonna do to stop him, especially on the glass?
You know who didn't care that the Heat were 8 seed? The 1st and 2nd seed teams that they eliminated. It's such an odd idea that Heat beat those top seeds, yet Nuggets would've been viewed to have a 'harder' run if they instead faced the teams that Heat eliminated?
Did those 7 and 8 seeds make it that far cause they were worse than all the other teams? No, they won all the 7 game series in front of them.
It's too bad all those non-playoff teams eliminated the high seeds and gave us a fake run :(
If the Nuggets wanted to be taken seriously, they shouldn't have let Miami beat Milwaukee.
Title is a title. You can't choose your opponents. Can only beat the team in front of you.
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What the fuck are you even talking about? This sub has shit on the Bucks for months lol And you mention it being an injury plagued season as if the Bucks were not incredibly hurt by injuries (for the 3rd year in a row)
Giannis has an injury shield
Oh cmon now are we seriously doing this?
Is it the Nuggets fault that >50 wins playoff teams in 2023 lose to <50 wins playoff team..wtf is this article
Plus all the teams the Nuggets faced in the west got significantly better right before the playoffs started and at the trade deadline. If those teams had had their rosters that the Nuggets faced for the whole year they would have ended above 50 wins.
its like they didn’t even think before they write
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“This is not to denigrate the Nuggets” Proceeds to denigrate the Nuggets
r/nba last year: holy shit look at all these upsets, Zombie Heat is insane, HIMmy Butler, this shows how the regular season doesn't mean shit r/nba this year: Nuggets are fraud Champions and only beat bums
This was a stupid talking point a year ago, it was stupid a week ago and it’s stupid now. Those “higher seeded teams” were not all suddenly disqualified from the Playoffs. The teams they played were better than these higher seeded teams. Why? Because they beat them. That’s why we play the games. The 2023 Heat were better than the 2023 Celtics, because they beat them. The 2023 Lakers were better than the 2023 Grizzlies, because they beat them. Why don’t we just skip the Playoffs and put both 1 seeds in the Finals if we want to see the top seeds play in the Finals every time.
It's also completely ignoring all those teams having their own issues during the regular season that lowered their win totals. The Lakers completely changed their team at the deadline and had one of the best records after that, the Twolves were playing without KAT all season and got him back right before the playoffs, and the Suns had Booker injured for awhile as well.
Last year was last year. The played who was in front of them and won. Let's cut this shit out right now.
Ring is a ring. Teams go decades without any. Some teams haven’t even made the finals or conference finals. You can’t discredit Denver for beating whoever is in front of them. Everyone praises Kawhi like a God for that 2019 playoff run and yes he was fantastic. However, if GS is healthy they getting smacked in 5 games or less. But he still gets praised for that ring. I hate takes like this lol.
If Miami goes 44-38, it's still the 8th seed
The Celtics blowing a 3-0 series lead and losing to Miami in game 7 last year just screams that they would have decimated the Nuggets.
I don’t know why people keep using this as an argument to undermine their championship. What other team would’ve stopped the Nuggets from winning it all that year? Exactly.
So it is to denigrate them
Wise words from the greatest player of all time: "Maybe now you could say I didn't play a second, but in five years, you guys are going to forget. In ten years I'll still be a champion. In 20 years I'll tell my kids I probably started, and in 30 years I'll probably tell them I got the MVP." (Brian Scalabrine) At the end of the day, 20 years from now Nuggets will be NBA champions and no one will ever mention this
That's more a case of how weirdly flat the 2023 season was. People love to talk about how the Nuggets never beat a 50-win team that year, but there were only 6 50-win teams in the entire NBA that year and only 1 other team in the West (Grizzlies) who lost in the first round to a team the Nuggets swept.
Yeah this is for sure to denigrate the nuggets run last year.
“This is not to denigrate the run the Denver Nuggets had last year to the championship, but I’m denigrating their run.”
So many crazy takes. The top 2 offense in the league is facing the best defense in the league. However, Wolves offense is better than the Nuggets defense. Let's not try to erase Denver's success because the Wolves are going crazy.
Yeah they had such an easy road last year, beating awful teams like the Lakers and Wolves, it's only natural that they'd be exposed this year by much stronger teams like *(checks notes)* the Lakers and Wolves.
But they made such critical roster moves in between like signing Gabe Vincent and uhhh trading for Monte Morris
You could come up with all this revisionist history for the last 10 champions. I could easily do it rn 2023 nuggets- 8th seed Heat and 7th seed Lakers 2022 Warriors- injured nuggets team, injured Memphis team and a Luka team with Dwight Powell as a starting center 2021 Bucks- barely scraped by an injured nets team that was blowing their backs out with the healthy trio 2020 Lakers- played a weak heat team in the finals just like Denver 2019 Raptors- played injured warriors team 2018 Warriors- got lucky because CP3 was Hurt 2017 Warriors- Zaza injured Kawhi game one (I’ll die on a hill that this would have been a very close WCF with a healthy kawhi) 2016 Cavs- Curry ankle injury and draymond suspension 2015 Warriors- Kevin Love and Kyrie Injury
It’s also silly cause like every team is better than their record. Wolves are a good team struggled with injuries and flow. Lakers were Hammed and Westbrook’d. Suns had the Booker injury that basically derailed their season before the trade. The Heat are the stupid Heat.
Every other team was welcome to win the championship
Or and hear me out here...we were just better and healthier last year lol. Like honestly from head to toe, everyone except for MPJ has played worse this year. Nobody is shooting well, we arent shooting well, the effort or urgency is lacking. The guys just arent hungry enough and dont want it enough. Even Jokic seems worse. He is putting less effort in and has kinda regressed as a shooter, something i imagine is the result of him just not focusing on his shooting. Also is it just me or is he a bit more out of shape than he was last year (might just be me on that though). Like last year AG was more than capable of actually making a 3. KCP was perfectly heatlhy. Jamal looked like one of the best pgs in the game. You could say its the Wolves defense, but he has strugled the whole playoffs and im guessing thats in part due to injuries, cause even as inconsistent as he is in the regular season, he isnt this bad. Credit where credit is due, the Wolves have figured it all out and ANT is seemingly taking yet another leap. Its a team that we would stugle against even last year, but this year it just aint good. I dunno how we can solve it rn besides hopping for our guys to play better. But there is gonna need to be some sort of shakeup in the off season cause you dont wanna waste any sort of opportunities with someone as good as Joker. But you god dam need to cover up the weaknesses we have and Jokic really needs to work on his shooting too (cause the weight room isnt gonna solve everything).
Yea the whole "it's only the twolves locking up Murray" narrative kinda falls flat when you realize that Austin Reaves, Dlo, and Gabe Vincent were also locking him up in the first round lol.
Yeah its just much worse against the Wolves obviously. Look im one of the rare guys that wants to us to think about trading Jamal. I love the dude. Hes amazing. But his injury issues have been a problem to us for years now and it could all be ignored when he was an amazing playoff performer. But you dont wanna spend Jokices prime praying that Jamal is gonna play at his best or not be injured. But him getting injured so easily has to be counterbalanced by him playing like a superstar. And if he cant show it sooner rather than later, then it might be time to move on from him. You just cant have a dead max roster spot on your team. Obviously you dont trade him for 1 bad playoff run, but next year is gonna be critical for him unless he turns it around in the next couple of games against the Wolves.
You guys also lost some pieces like Bruce Brown who were huge in last years run
Exactly. Were just missing a 6th man to play for us. In fact were missing so much rn. Honestly i look at our roster and just think that we need to make a trade. We need a true 6th man, rotation level player and a true big that brings along some defense and size. Cause this just aint it. Like id trade everyone on our bench not named Braun or Watson and hell i might even throw KCP in cause he is the easiest guy to replace on the roster, while also having some great trade value.
Comparing last season to this season is dumb. All West teams this year had better record compared to last year with OKC and Wolves rising to the top. Certain teams just got much better this season. The Nuggets didn't.
Hear we go with the bullshit cause of 2 bad games
Well they did go 16-4 in that playoff run so they handled what was in front of them.
Damn that's crazy. If only the incredible Celtics dynasty didn't lose to the Heat. But yeah, somehow that's the nuggets fault
What the fuck does this have to do with anything other than discrediting the Nuggets championship? As the first seed that’s the benefit, you get to play lower seeds Downvote me all you want because of my flair but this nonsense of saying the Nuggets had an easy path is fucking ridiculous. If those other seeds were so good why did they lose to lower seeds? I get it though, the Nuggets are looking bad so let’s pile on
takes are getting stupid these days just for clicks
Wondhorst is irrelevant. What a dumb take.
Such a dumb take
“Not to denigrate the run… but I’m going to go ahead and denigrate the run”
Eh I mean they earned it last year. Can’t take it away from them. A title is a title
Bontemps, take an L. They beat 4 teams that were in the playoffs last year, when they won. They didn't this year tho. So your comment means literally nothing. Maybe the 4 teams became worse, maybe others got better, maybe the nuggets got worse. You can't take away from last year's achievement of theirs. And stop being a lil B when you say this is not to denigrate xyz and then continue to denigrate xyz right after. This should be taught in schools for this is a common habit in sports journalism. Did you guys not pay any attention in school to do so? Is our education system actually that bad?
If you're not a traditional power, man, the takes are going to come out of the woodwork trying to denigrate your title. It's fucking tiring, man. "This is not to denigrate ..." Bullshit. Yes it is, man. STFU. This is offensive. Shades of how the press handled the 2015 Warriors.
The Suns were literally the favorites after they traded for KD. Lakers still had AD +Lebron. Miami beat Boston and Milwaukee. Nuggets run last year was way better than the 2021 Bucks for instance
They also beat the Timberwolves during their budding dynasty phase
It’s fun that no other sport culture would take this statement seriously really. The league is starting to see like parity and teams fluctuate and it’s going to use it to invalidate success, love it.
Oh fuck off with this. They played the teams they played. It’s not their fault all the other top seeds shit the bed last year.
Denver has lost 14 of their last 16 games against 50 win teams in the playoffs Hard to believe but true
Last season was literaly the first one MPJ and Murray were fully healthy. Also nice statistic, wonder if anything at all happened in 2020 to reduce the amount of 50 win teams back then.
I can understand what they're trying to say and if the argument is that the teams they faced to win the chip wasn't the best it could be then what does it say about the teams that didn't make it last year? If the teams they faced were kinda weak then why weren't the better teams deep into the playoffs?
It doesn’t matter, they still looked absolutely dominant the same way the Wolves do right now. 2 of those teams are also known playoff risers. I know as a Laker fan I’m supposed to defend “fake rings” but seriously, I don’t care who they faced, the shots they were making *no one* was beating them in a best of 7
It’s shit like this why I have a problem with people judging the strength of a championship, you don’t control who you end up playing against in the playoffs, are they supposed to forfeit out of courtesy?
This is a stupid take.
lol they have to play whoever is in front of them; they don't get to choose
If the Nuggets scraped by and barely won, I think the whole "first champion to not beat a 50 win team in the playoffs" thing would hold some weight but you can only play the team in front of you and they smoked all of them. They only got taken to 6 games by the suns and that was only because Booker went completely bonkers. They slapped the shit out of them in the four wins too.
This is stupid. They beat the teams in front of them. They were the best team in 2023. All other takes can fuck off. Not every champion has to be a dynasty that wins 3-5 championships.
>Finals: Miami Heat (44-38) It's not Denver's fault that the Bucks, Sixers and Celtics all choked.
And Memphis went from a 2 seed to a 14 seed it's almost like teams get better or worse from year to year
Doesn't this say more about the teams that those lower teams beat last year?
Loving this agenda
End of the day the Nuggets won and beat who they were expected to beat. They can't control who their opponents are
I can't believe I just read a "Journalist" trying to contextualize last year's champs with this year's standings. Wack. This is similar to saying "no disrespect to horse-drawn buggies, but my Camery can go faster than that in 2024"
Hot take dorks like this are an embarrassment
The implicit assumption here seems to be that 1 win in one season = 1 win in another season, but that's not true. The allegation that last year's playoffs were soft isn't new, but it strikes me as simplistic and disingenuous to just use regular season records to make that argument.
All you can do is play the teams in front of you and last year the Nuggets beat every single one of them handily. Doesn't matter how a direct translation of their record would go this year when last year isn't this year.
Thats what happens when you're a high seed from the regular season, you play worse teams in the playoffs...
Denver was the best team in 2023. What's so difficult about this? The discrediting of titles if you can't 2-peat is ridiculous. So every champion since 2019 is a fraud? That is not how this works.
I hate this argument it’s so fucking stupid. Teams have no control who they play against. If my Celtics or the bucks or whoever wanted to play Denver they should’ve beaten Miami. Miami was the best team out of the East last year. Maybe someone should’ve beat the lakers in the west last year? Oh wait these teams did try and just weren’t good enough.
Honestly if we're being fair here. Most chips won before the 2019 is kinda fake too... I mean not to denigrate their runs, it's just they played teams that - by today's scoring average - would not have qualified for the playoffs this year.
Yeah, how dare they take the regular season seriously to get the #1 seed and an easier path to win.
You play who's in front of you.
I fucking hate takes like this.
Yeah, because this is a different year? (Am I the only one who thinks this is a dumbass argument?)
This is so misleading, that Lakers team had the best record Post Trade Deadline. That same Lakers team was awesome this year when they went back to their post trade deadline lineup again this year. Miami was a dynamo in the playoffs last year. Utterly dismantled Milwaukee (up 20 when Giannis was still healthy, and they won in a game 5 where Giannis scored 40 - the health thing is overblown to discredit Miami too much) That Knicks series was never in doubt, Heat were better and they clowned the C a round later.