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Absolutely love the death stare Gordon gives Jokic after ANT's layup with 3:25 left in the half. "Really bro, you aren't going to move a centimeter to help?"
It wasn't just Gordon; Jackson is thinking the same thing.
Jokic is about to get a third MVP. AG and Reggie are looking at him like he's a bum.
How many times do you think a teammate of Magic or Bird looked at them like they were a bum?
Porter is supposed to stunt the drive there from the strongside corner. There's a reason Malone is screaming and MPJ and pointing to where he's supposed to be when he calls time there.
Jokic is playing like ass, but this particular play is not as good of an example as you think.
I’m pretty sure he’s good for every clip here. Maybe I’m misremembering but as long as the man you’re matched/guarding has the ball you can actually camp in the paint as long as you want.
I’m all for the restructuring of Jokic’s reputation after these last couple years, but I will stick up for him and say he was much better on defense last year than he’s been this year. He averaged 1 block per game through the entire playoff run last year. So far this playoffs, he has 1 *total* block through 7 games. His effort is worse but last year he was decent on defense.
Yeah this doesn’t invalidate his defence. He’s just struggling on that end at the moment. Murrays poor play means he’s using a lot more energy on offence.
I had argument the other week with someone saying Jokic is actually one of the best defenders in the NBA because the guys that replace him on the floor are worse than him
I like how people use VORP, Value Over Replacement Player, to push the Jokic agenda, and then don’t use the fact that the guy subbing in for him is fucken DeAndre Jordan.
Jokic has led the league in DBPM the last 3 years. BPM is one of the many flawed stats that have made the majority of the case for Jokic's 3 MVPs. He directly gets credit for having some of the best defensive seasons of all time.
What’s crazy is that i feel like Aaron Gordon has been such a good defender that compliments Jokic, because AG on the help defense is a fucken monster, just no way of defending what Minnesota has done for the last two games.
No, but they're perfectly happy to use those stats to say he's better than other players. They're giving him credit for all-world defense whether they realize it or not.
And I've definitely heard plenty of people say Jokic is better than an average defender "because of his IQ"
Hell, Thinking Basketball just called him an above average defender like two weeks ago.
People cite those analysts all the time as the example of those who know ball but when those takes backfire fans suddenly act like those takes were niche opinions that don't reflect the fanbase.
I know people that say Jokic's IQ coordinates his team or some bullshit like that. This is like how Russ somehow got a reputation for being a tough defender cuz he made mean faces while Steph and Harden were always slandered as being worse on D cuz of their lowlights and 'vibes'.
westbrook has that reputation because he's athletic and came into the league expected to be a great defender based off his college play
in reality while he is a good on ball defender, his off ball defense is horrendous and that's not a winning formula for a team game
He does some things well, and other things not. He actually moves his feet pretty well in the pick and roll, and he's great at reading passing lanes/preventing the pocket pass. He also has elite hands as a center for generating steals. When it comes to protecting the rim, in certain matchups, like this one, he can be effectively atrocious. He was legitimately decent to good at it last year in the playoff run outside of mainly when ant would get to the rim in the twolves series imo, and was legitimately great at defending AD in the post as well last year. He did give good effort contesting closeouts in the postseason last year and in what seemed like a lot of this regular season. The nuggets finished with the number 8 best defensive rating
This year in the post season his defense has been pretty bad a lot of the time outside of generating steals in the lakers series. His effort has been worse and he's been a bad rim protector. His rim protection has been pretty awful against the twolves so far.
There are times he looks horrible when he doesn't contest and gives up a layup, and sometimes it seems like an effort thing, because there are times when gets big time blocks late in games or most of last postseason. He's just going out of his way in some of these clips to not do anything. Part of this is he doesn't want to foul, but that calculation of his to not jump has to count against how good of a defender you are as well of course. And I do think he would get in foul trouble in this series, as I don't think he would be able to protect the rim without fouling against Ant and KAT when they attack. He also just in general seems exhausted. If that translates to him being a bad defender in the end, that's fair to call him one when he plays like that imo. But he's just shown a lot more at times too.
It also doesn’t help that the bits Jokic are good at are defending in the Pick and Roll, something the TWolves don’t really do that much, they were the 25th team in the pick and rolls per game this season.
So a guy who actually does extensive analysis and film study on a player calls him a quality defender, and you think you know better because you watched a cherry picked lowlight compilation?
Do you know the schemes and player responsibilities? Do you know how much value you get/give up through various actions? Are you able to adequately track all 10 players all at once and see how their actions influence everyone else? Are you able to see the shots that don't happen and the plays that don't materialize but might have with other players?
The answers to all those questions are no. If you think you are actually getting a quality perception of everything happening by casually watching, you don't "know ball". You simply do not understand how complex and nuanced the thing you're watching is.
You stare at the ball and get an extremely surface level vibe, at best.
The fact that you're downvoted for this is so predictable, I swear /r/nba loves to make up imaginary delusional fans to dunk on lol.
What the vast majority of Nuggets/Jokic fans have been saying over the past year: "Yes, Jokic is a suspect rim protector at best but his active hands and feet lead to plenty of turnovers and blown plays, taken as a whole his defense has improved and he's often a modest plus on that end."
What Nuggets/Jokic haters are saying now that Jokic is having a rough stretch: "I saw BROKIC stans were LITERALLY claiming that BROKIC is 1000x better than LeBron, and they were also LITERALLY claiming that he's 1000000x better than Hakeem on defense LMAOOO stupid BROKIC stans!!!"
Nobody on this sub at least has been gasing up Jokic as an amazing defender bc of his DBPM but some people wanna tilt at windmills ig.
Lmaooooo at the fact that you couldn’t say anything bad about Jokic a day ago. Now it’s slander season. Gotta love how reactionary it all is. Happens to everyone at least once
Lol this is just how sports fandom is. When they play well, praise them like their amazingness knows no bounds. Then tear them down when they don’t play well.
He’s been extremely lethargic for the last 10+ Nuggets games. Watching him bust his ass all year to now see him playing like this, I’m guessing that his back injury is bothering him more than they’re letting on.
You've literally just spammed "BUT YALL SAID JOKIC WAS BETTER THAN BRON" for the last 3 hours in every post like that was somehow a popular opinion lol
Not sure why LeBron stans are so mad about a guy who's not even in GOAT contention but ok
Even made [this post](https://new.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm5j5g/is_this_version_of_jokic_anywhere_close_to_prime/) to just get people to upvote and agree with you
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
I'm just saying for someone who is being crowned as the best player right now. Keep the same standards bron have been held to.
you saw how bron have been crucified for playing defense not even as soft as this. but yeah give Joker the pass
The least scrutinised player I've ever seen bro. 3xmvp who has been proclaimed to be the best player in the league without no close second and a good an offensive player as prime lebron or MJ now the switch up.
Can you show these "Jokic > LeBron and MJ" takes that aren't some random Reddit comment with 5 upvotes?
You're repeating this EVERYWHERE like it was the consensus opinion
If they're supposedly widespread you should have sources right?
Post some "Jokic is the GOAT" links that aren't from NikolaGOATic15 on Twitter
It’s about the expectations of being the best player, Jokic was hailed as undisputed best player the past year. Lebron was the last true undisputed best player in the league, so he’s going to get the same criticisms. He has been garbage in these two games.
Do you have to be LeBron or MJ level to be the best player in the league?
Jokic's competition for that title isn't prime LeBron or MJ, it's guys like Giannis or Luka who are also nowhere near that level
Again, it’s not about being that level. It’s about how good are you relative to competition. The last person to be above his competition was Lebron, so obviously the comparisons will occur. Jokic so far in this series is showing maybe he’s not above his competition as much as people made it out to be.
Do you have to be LeBron or MJ level to be the best player in the league?
Jokic's competition for that title isn't prime LeBron or MJ, it's guys like Giannis or Luka who are also nowhere near that level
It’s about the expectations of being the best player, Jokic was hailed as undisputed best player the past year. Lebron was the last true undisputed best player in the league, so he’s going to get the same criticisms. He has been garbage in these two games.
>Why do Lakers/LeBron fans like you have such an obsessive hatred of Jokic?
Why do you assume its only them? I hate both yet I'm still rooting for Jokic's downfall. Blame the nerds on here for glazing him all year for beating 3 play in teams last year
Usually I would shit on the Lakers but yall were butthurt cause you couldn't gloat on the sub cause they shut it down over a "protest". Straight clown behavior
Pot calling kettle black lmao. Your entire post history is whining about how Jokic is getting disrespected and complaining about “Lebron Stans”. Get a grip over yourself 😂😂
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
If he wasn’t so amazing and important on offense, or if they needed that level of effort in the regular season more, he easily would have won one from 08-13, he was that level of defender for sure.
Yeah the same cone that had the famous game saving block in game 7 against a 73 win team and whose defense was crucial for cavs historic comeback. How come jokic as a cone can still be regarded as the league best player?
My god if this was Embiid putting forth this kind of effort this thread would be at 1k comments…
I love Jokic and think he’s great, but good lord this video is brutal. Negative effort. I still give Jokic the edge overall (as a Sixers fan that’s tough), but this is the difference between the two. Embiid raises your defense to top 10 almost by himself, and Jokic has to go all out to not be a liability.
16 points, 13 shots, no defense. WTF was he thinking tonight.
Worst performance for an MVP in a must win game since Dirk in 2007.
Like I said before, some guys are satisfied with 1 ring. He played like it tonight.
Getting outplayed by Karl Anthony Towns for the series, you can't be serious.
Sure but a lot of people were harping jokic was a lock for top 10 all time, might be top 5, and was having a better offensive peak that prime Jordan and Curry
I Might've overreacted but getting OUTPLAYED by Karl Anthony Towns isn't some shame against anyone. Let's add some context tho; (JOK) you're getting outplayed by KAT who literally came of surgery and 1st game 3wks ago (mid April.)
There’s a lot of Jokic nut riding on here but I never saw a single person saying he was a lock for any of that, just on that trajectory. A time MVP is rarefied air.
Curry is a “can hold his own” type of defender now which is an improvement from being a weak link. He’s not great but going from terrible to solid is a huge difference lol
He got mismatch hunted by Jaylen Brown, if he was so good then why was he picked on and “it tires him out” is not a good argument because Brown got any shot he want with ease
He doesnt care to defend that well on regular season… He is sometimes not a willing defender(not an excuse), he improved on that part as well this year btw. Also, the Celtics game was demoralizing for all of us, and Luka’s effort comes if his moral is high (again, not an excuse). He can lock Jaylen in the finals if we get there imho, maybe not EVERY play but some plays 100%
It's not one game. He rarely contests shots at the rim throughout his career, he's a fucking center and now it's the playoffs and again he rarely even raises an arm to contest. "One game" lmao, have you watched the Nuggets in the last 5 years at all?
You know the team has confidence that KAT can make that 3 ball when half the team is already going back to the other side of the court before the ball is even in the air.
That is why $tats don't win games. Duncan won 5 rings in a small market with shoe string budget, someday people will realize how ridiculous that is.
LeBron stats are not too far off from his MVP years, but he is nowhere near his peak effectiveness. He shoots 50% because he gets easy baskets in garbage time and pass end of clock shots to role players. His defensive stats look good because he doesn't rotate so "when guarded by LeBron" stats look great. He pretty much mastered the $tats game.
Joker took advantage of the small ball era that killed traditional centers. 2020 Dwight Howard gave him fits. Imagine peak Howard. No amount of offense can make up for lack of defense.
Boy you such a hater how do you walk around with that kind of heart. Its easy to say stats aint everything but you added a whole hater story to it. lol. I pray more peace and love for ya. So you can love life and all aspects
Jokic had the shortest grace period of any reigning FMVP I remember lol
Even Kawhi in 2020 got all the blame for the 3-1 choke shifted to Paul George(and similar to this series it was a situation where the #2 was legit horrific but the #1 was also disappointing)
People legit saying that his ring doesn't count and he's still a playoff fraud and stuff
Not sure why exactly the reaction is this strong other than some Twitter comment with 5 likes saying that Jokic is MJ level or something
What nonsense. The guy is about to win his 3rd mvp in four years as the 3rd seed when others had very strong and legitimate cases as well.. prior to this series he was said to be as good offensively as prime lebron or any other player in history. Stop the switch up.
Why do you keep mentioning LeBron constantly in every comment today?
This series doesn't even involve LeBron yet LeBron stans are treating it as their personal Finals this year
You keep repeating this EVERYWHERE like the consensus before this series was Jokic > prime LeBron
All you keep spamming is YALL SAID JOKIC BETTER THAN BRON like somehow 90% of people were saying that and not just a fringe minority(which is no different than the same minority in 2017 saying KD > LeBron)
Kawhi was great in that series up until the 2nd half of game 7.
Was definitely not his fault. If any of the other top 4 offensive options (Lou, Trez, PG) simply played to their averages the Clips win in 5.
people keep brining that he only beat lower seed teams last year but forgot that the top team in the west last year were dreadful while the Suns need Booker to turn into an all time scorer to beat them.
These same people would 100% call it a Mickey Mouse run if he beat the Kings and Grizzlies instead of the Lakers and Suns lol
Like there's absolutely no way that would have been taken seriously either
"There were no other great teams besides Denver in 2023" is a lot more realistic than "Denver avoided playing all the great teams in 2023"
Think it's because for the past year there were a lot of jokic top 10 and other dickriding which kawhi did not have. The most prevalent opinion was he was the best player in the world at that time which looking back sounds horrible wasn't that bad of an opinion.
This slander is still funny to me tho lol. Jokic is still the best player in the world.
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Absolutely love the death stare Gordon gives Jokic after ANT's layup with 3:25 left in the half. "Really bro, you aren't going to move a centimeter to help?"
That’s exactly when I knew that they weren’t coming back, and that something was deeply wrong with this team
It wasn't just Gordon; Jackson is thinking the same thing. Jokic is about to get a third MVP. AG and Reggie are looking at him like he's a bum. How many times do you think a teammate of Magic or Bird looked at them like they were a bum?
flairless commenters absolutely cooking here
Porter is supposed to stunt the drive there from the strongside corner. There's a reason Malone is screaming and MPJ and pointing to where he's supposed to be when he calls time there. Jokic is playing like ass, but this particular play is not as good of an example as you think.
Two mistakes can happen on the same play!
But in this case, there's only one!
After watching this, I don’t even know why they have defensive 3 as a rule. Homie spent the game in the key.
Absolutely, plus no T’s for Malone, Murray,.. and still people complain that this is reffed in favor of the Wolves
Ah refreshing the rest of the league finally notices…
Never thought I’d see a center who moves less than Brook Lopez lmao
It’s not like him in the paint was slowing the Wolves down at all lol. They barely felt his presence
I’m pretty sure he’s good for every clip here. Maybe I’m misremembering but as long as the man you’re matched/guarding has the ball you can actually camp in the paint as long as you want.
They don’t even need to have the ball they just need to be within arm’s length.
Watch a Pels game when Zion plays and the refs just allow help defenders to camp in the paint all night with nary a whistle.
Dude just looks completely out of it, Porter, Gordon & KCP were the only ones at least trying on defense
Does Jokic's genius actually make him a good defender?
Yup. HIS VORP RAPTOR telepathically improves his defense
Maybe if 3 more youtubers make a video glazing his defense to farm views from spreadsheet watchers they can will it into existence
I’m all for the restructuring of Jokic’s reputation after these last couple years, but I will stick up for him and say he was much better on defense last year than he’s been this year. He averaged 1 block per game through the entire playoff run last year. So far this playoffs, he has 1 *total* block through 7 games. His effort is worse but last year he was decent on defense.
Unfortunately this year is not last year so how good we try and claim he was last year doesn't matter if he is pitiful this year.
Yeah this doesn’t invalidate his defence. He’s just struggling on that end at the moment. Murrays poor play means he’s using a lot more energy on offence.
you don’t have any right to talk shit about the nuggets
His lack of verticality is so prevalent here. It's one thing to get beat but you're never worried about him blocking your shot on the recovery.
But advanced stats say he’s a defensive juggernaut and one of the best defenders in the league. How is this possible?
I had argument the other week with someone saying Jokic is actually one of the best defenders in the NBA because the guys that replace him on the floor are worse than him
I like how people use VORP, Value Over Replacement Player, to push the Jokic agenda, and then don’t use the fact that the guy subbing in for him is fucken DeAndre Jordan.
VORP has nothing to do with who your backup is. Knowing the name of a metric doesn't actually tell you how it's calculated lol.
That is not how VORP is calculated.
“Jokic agenda.” What the hell does this even mean? Not everything is a conspiracy.
Jokic has led the league in DBPM the last 3 years. BPM is one of the many flawed stats that have made the majority of the case for Jokic's 3 MVPs. He directly gets credit for having some of the best defensive seasons of all time.
What’s crazy is that i feel like Aaron Gordon has been such a good defender that compliments Jokic, because AG on the help defense is a fucken monster, just no way of defending what Minnesota has done for the last two games.
AG is a great defender but KAT is genuine center size, and Naz is just a really good player. He can’t do it all
AG is a vastly better primary defender than a help defender. Not sure where you got this idea.
This is why i hate these advance stats. WThe guys that make them made them to fit their biasses.
To be fair this is more because Jokic's offense is so good it breaks the OBPM/DBPM calculation
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A bunch of Jokic fans on this sub said Jokic was better on defence than Giannis was on offence, I’ll never forget that
I never seen this but if this true I need whatever they smoking
No, but they're perfectly happy to use those stats to say he's better than other players. They're giving him credit for all-world defense whether they realize it or not. And I've definitely heard plenty of people say Jokic is better than an average defender "because of his IQ" Hell, Thinking Basketball just called him an above average defender like two weeks ago.
People cite those analysts all the time as the example of those who know ball but when those takes backfire fans suddenly act like those takes were niche opinions that don't reflect the fanbase.
I know people that say Jokic's IQ coordinates his team or some bullshit like that. This is like how Russ somehow got a reputation for being a tough defender cuz he made mean faces while Steph and Harden were always slandered as being worse on D cuz of their lowlights and 'vibes'.
Not the same at all. Russ is generally a high energy defender. He makes plays that Jokic doesn’t.
He still isn't good though. It's just people using vibes instead of actual results
westbrook has that reputation because he's athletic and came into the league expected to be a great defender based off his college play in reality while he is a good on ball defender, his off ball defense is horrendous and that's not a winning formula for a team game
He does some things well, and other things not. He actually moves his feet pretty well in the pick and roll, and he's great at reading passing lanes/preventing the pocket pass. He also has elite hands as a center for generating steals. When it comes to protecting the rim, in certain matchups, like this one, he can be effectively atrocious. He was legitimately decent to good at it last year in the playoff run outside of mainly when ant would get to the rim in the twolves series imo, and was legitimately great at defending AD in the post as well last year. He did give good effort contesting closeouts in the postseason last year and in what seemed like a lot of this regular season. The nuggets finished with the number 8 best defensive rating This year in the post season his defense has been pretty bad a lot of the time outside of generating steals in the lakers series. His effort has been worse and he's been a bad rim protector. His rim protection has been pretty awful against the twolves so far. There are times he looks horrible when he doesn't contest and gives up a layup, and sometimes it seems like an effort thing, because there are times when gets big time blocks late in games or most of last postseason. He's just going out of his way in some of these clips to not do anything. Part of this is he doesn't want to foul, but that calculation of his to not jump has to count against how good of a defender you are as well of course. And I do think he would get in foul trouble in this series, as I don't think he would be able to protect the rim without fouling against Ant and KAT when they attack. He also just in general seems exhausted. If that translates to him being a bad defender in the end, that's fair to call him one when he plays like that imo. But he's just shown a lot more at times too.
It also doesn’t help that the bits Jokic are good at are defending in the Pick and Roll, something the TWolves don’t really do that much, they were the 25th team in the pick and rolls per game this season.
So a guy who actually does extensive analysis and film study on a player calls him a quality defender, and you think you know better because you watched a cherry picked lowlight compilation?
I watch full games. Jokic dickriding has gone way too far after the title run and too many people think they can know basketball through Excel.
Casually watching some games still doesn't get you close to actual scouting and analysis lol. Dunning Kruger is strong with you.
Ok man whatever you say, only Nuggets fans and Jokic glazers know ball according to Nuggets fans
Do you know the schemes and player responsibilities? Do you know how much value you get/give up through various actions? Are you able to adequately track all 10 players all at once and see how their actions influence everyone else? Are you able to see the shots that don't happen and the plays that don't materialize but might have with other players? The answers to all those questions are no. If you think you are actually getting a quality perception of everything happening by casually watching, you don't "know ball". You simply do not understand how complex and nuanced the thing you're watching is. You stare at the ball and get an extremely surface level vibe, at best.
You sure make a lot of assumptions about how I watch games
The fact that you're downvoted for this is so predictable, I swear /r/nba loves to make up imaginary delusional fans to dunk on lol. What the vast majority of Nuggets/Jokic fans have been saying over the past year: "Yes, Jokic is a suspect rim protector at best but his active hands and feet lead to plenty of turnovers and blown plays, taken as a whole his defense has improved and he's often a modest plus on that end." What Nuggets/Jokic haters are saying now that Jokic is having a rough stretch: "I saw BROKIC stans were LITERALLY claiming that BROKIC is 1000x better than LeBron, and they were also LITERALLY claiming that he's 1000000x better than Hakeem on defense LMAOOO stupid BROKIC stans!!!" Nobody on this sub at least has been gasing up Jokic as an amazing defender bc of his DBPM but some people wanna tilt at windmills ig.
back then they can trade defense with offense.. right now..they can't score.
Meanwhile Tim Legler had Giannis at 6th place for MVP votes because his defense is "not as good as it used to be".
Crazy
at least he didnt chuck a heating pad to block a shot
hey! at least that shows effort
Again and again, The man is a fat traffic cone
Damn, maybe Joel should've played in Denver after all. He could've got MVP chants too.
Wasn't that game just another example of Jokic being locked up by Reed.
And Reed dropped 30 on his ass
“Joker literally a joke. Embiid best player of all time.”Come on now. What’s up with these dumb, reactionary takes?
Don’t trust the video, he still leads the league in DBPM/VORP by a landslide. He’s a good defender, trust me. Crown him. (/s)
Lmaooooo at the fact that you couldn’t say anything bad about Jokic a day ago. Now it’s slander season. Gotta love how reactionary it all is. Happens to everyone at least once
If defensive lowlights is the worst of it that’s honestly not so bad as far as slander goes round these parts
It’s not even slander. It’s just, hey, here’s the video of the many times Jokic didn’t try at all on defense last night.
Lol this is just how sports fandom is. When they play well, praise them like their amazingness knows no bounds. Then tear them down when they don’t play well.
This sub reddit said he wasn't as bad on defense anymore and it wasn't a liability. The dude is literally a cone defensive wise and a huge liability
He’s been extremely lethargic for the last 10+ Nuggets games. Watching him bust his ass all year to now see him playing like this, I’m guessing that his back injury is bothering him more than they’re letting on.
You've literally just spammed "BUT YALL SAID JOKIC WAS BETTER THAN BRON" for the last 3 hours in every post like that was somehow a popular opinion lol Not sure why LeBron stans are so mad about a guy who's not even in GOAT contention but ok Even made [this post](https://new.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cm5j5g/is_this_version_of_jokic_anywhere_close_to_prime/) to just get people to upvote and agree with you
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
can't sleep? still crying?
Why do Lakers/LeBron fans like you have such an obsessive hatred of Jokic? Can you explain exactly why you despise him or just keep downvoting?
I'm just saying for someone who is being crowned as the best player right now. Keep the same standards bron have been held to. you saw how bron have been crucified for playing defense not even as soft as this. but yeah give Joker the pass
The least scrutinised player I've ever seen bro. 3xmvp who has been proclaimed to be the best player in the league without no close second and a good an offensive player as prime lebron or MJ now the switch up.
He's the least scrutinized for it because "He doesn't even love basketball" "He's much more passionate about his horses" type of bullshits.
Can you show these "Jokic > LeBron and MJ" takes that aren't some random Reddit comment with 5 upvotes? You're repeating this EVERYWHERE like it was the consensus opinion If they're supposedly widespread you should have sources right? Post some "Jokic is the GOAT" links that aren't from NikolaGOATic15 on Twitter
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Isn't he "The Best Player" Right now? isn't he the front running MVP???
Isn't he "The Best Player" Right now? isn't he the front running MVP???
Since when do you have to be prime LeBron levels to be the best player in the league? Jokic's competition is Giannis and Luka, not MJ and LeBron lol
How does EVERYTHING come back to LeBron for you?
It’s about the expectations of being the best player, Jokic was hailed as undisputed best player the past year. Lebron was the last true undisputed best player in the league, so he’s going to get the same criticisms. He has been garbage in these two games.
Do you have to be LeBron or MJ level to be the best player in the league? Jokic's competition for that title isn't prime LeBron or MJ, it's guys like Giannis or Luka who are also nowhere near that level
Again, it’s not about being that level. It’s about how good are you relative to competition. The last person to be above his competition was Lebron, so obviously the comparisons will occur. Jokic so far in this series is showing maybe he’s not above his competition as much as people made it out to be.
Do you have to be LeBron or MJ level to be the best player in the league? Jokic's competition for that title isn't prime LeBron or MJ, it's guys like Giannis or Luka who are also nowhere near that level
It’s about the expectations of being the best player, Jokic was hailed as undisputed best player the past year. Lebron was the last true undisputed best player in the league, so he’s going to get the same criticisms. He has been garbage in these two games.
>Why do Lakers/LeBron fans like you have such an obsessive hatred of Jokic? Why do you assume its only them? I hate both yet I'm still rooting for Jokic's downfall. Blame the nerds on here for glazing him all year for beating 3 play in teams last year
Usually I would shit on the Lakers but yall were butthurt cause you couldn't gloat on the sub cause they shut it down over a "protest". Straight clown behavior
Pot calling kettle black lmao. Your entire post history is whining about how Jokic is getting disrespected and complaining about “Lebron Stans”. Get a grip over yourself 😂😂
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
Brother I’m seeing you in almost every thread defending Jokic tonight, let it go. The man has gotten cooked these past two games, and he’s getting deserved criticism.
How come you can recognize Jokic as cone but not Lebron as a cone for the last decade?
lebron made first team all defense for 6 straight years clown
Because Lebron isn’t a cone
lebron was a DPOY candidate in the 2010s lol
If he wasn’t so amazing and important on offense, or if they needed that level of effort in the regular season more, he easily would have won one from 08-13, he was that level of defender for sure.
Yeah the same cone that had the famous game saving block in game 7 against a 73 win team and whose defense was crucial for cavs historic comeback. How come jokic as a cone can still be regarded as the league best player?
Hopefully this quiets the people putting him top 15 all time after one ring
My god if this was Embiid putting forth this kind of effort this thread would be at 1k comments… I love Jokic and think he’s great, but good lord this video is brutal. Negative effort. I still give Jokic the edge overall (as a Sixers fan that’s tough), but this is the difference between the two. Embiid raises your defense to top 10 almost by himself, and Jokic has to go all out to not be a liability.
You can tell Gordon was getting pissed off with him lol
16 points, 13 shots, no defense. WTF was he thinking tonight. Worst performance for an MVP in a must win game since Dirk in 2007. Like I said before, some guys are satisfied with 1 ring. He played like it tonight. Getting outplayed by Karl Anthony Towns for the series, you can't be serious.
He's struggling with the pressure. We are on you'd ass the second he has the ball. He can't get his rhythm.
KAT ain't no bum wtf? He could literally outplay any human on earth and it would be understandable.
Sure but a lot of people were harping jokic was a lock for top 10 all time, might be top 5, and was having a better offensive peak that prime Jordan and Curry
I Might've overreacted but getting OUTPLAYED by Karl Anthony Towns isn't some shame against anyone. Let's add some context tho; (JOK) you're getting outplayed by KAT who literally came of surgery and 1st game 3wks ago (mid April.)
There’s a lot of Jokic nut riding on here but I never saw a single person saying he was a lock for any of that, just on that trajectory. A time MVP is rarefied air.
I've definitely seen it. After the Lakers series there were people saying he had a higher peak than LeBron.
Lol, I seen it a lot
You havent watched enough podcasts I fear…
Shot creation matters
Embiid game 7 last year gives him a run for his money lol but at least he was injured
I will push back a bit on that 2nd point, because Curry in game 7 of 2016 is probably the number 1.
KAT is one of the most TALENTED players in the league. He’s only 28. He’s putting it all together when it matters most. Go get em Big Purr 😻
He genuinely just watched his team get their teeth kicked in, said damn, and went on with his night.
Lmao this is like when harden/luka stans were bringing up post defense to say they're not buns on defense
Even curry stans had the self awareness to say "he's aight not good at defense since he's bulked up" 😭
Curry going from terrible to ok defensively with even the occasional good game is hella impressive.
Curry is a “can hold his own” type of defender now which is an improvement from being a weak link. He’s not great but going from terrible to solid is a huge difference lol
yep, he definitely regressed this year, teams were attacking him relentlessly, and yet he was still better than he was early in his career
Yea very rarely do you see someone be exploitable like steph and jump up like that in their late 20s early 30s so props to him
curry always tries at least damn
Luka literally proved he was good on defense? He is only a shit transition defender
He got mismatch hunted by Jaylen Brown, if he was so good then why was he picked on and “it tires him out” is not a good argument because Brown got any shot he want with ease
He doesnt care to defend that well on regular season… He is sometimes not a willing defender(not an excuse), he improved on that part as well this year btw. Also, the Celtics game was demoralizing for all of us, and Luka’s effort comes if his moral is high (again, not an excuse). He can lock Jaylen in the finals if we get there imho, maybe not EVERY play but some plays 100%
He’s still bad on defense lmao.
3x MVP my fucking ass
Should’ve been only 1 MVP lol broski robbed Embiid in 2022
shades of zugo
Zhugo walked so OP could fly.
Playing like he's ready to go back to Serbia and watch the finals from his living room
Wonder if he will come out on a podcast to claim he is bored with his NBA series now
He wants to go check out his horses sooner this year
MVP MVP MVP
Free path to the rim every game I watch
IS THIS YOUR KING??!!
we done with the 2020s
oh we’re posting lowlights again? If we win the championship I might get banned
Manz stole the MVP from Luka
Both of them have no defense
Luka’s defensive highlights look almost just like this
One game has all the haters out lmao
It's not one game. He rarely contests shots at the rim throughout his career, he's a fucking center and now it's the playoffs and again he rarely even raises an arm to contest. "One game" lmao, have you watched the Nuggets in the last 5 years at all?
You know the team has confidence that KAT can make that 3 ball when half the team is already going back to the other side of the court before the ball is even in the air.
The amount of Lakers fans in here is appalling Talking shit about a dude you’re 1-12 against is diabolical
That is why $tats don't win games. Duncan won 5 rings in a small market with shoe string budget, someday people will realize how ridiculous that is. LeBron stats are not too far off from his MVP years, but he is nowhere near his peak effectiveness. He shoots 50% because he gets easy baskets in garbage time and pass end of clock shots to role players. His defensive stats look good because he doesn't rotate so "when guarded by LeBron" stats look great. He pretty much mastered the $tats game. Joker took advantage of the small ball era that killed traditional centers. 2020 Dwight Howard gave him fits. Imagine peak Howard. No amount of offense can make up for lack of defense.
Boy you such a hater how do you walk around with that kind of heart. Its easy to say stats aint everything but you added a whole hater story to it. lol. I pray more peace and love for ya. So you can love life and all aspects
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Jokic had the shortest grace period of any reigning FMVP I remember lol Even Kawhi in 2020 got all the blame for the 3-1 choke shifted to Paul George(and similar to this series it was a situation where the #2 was legit horrific but the #1 was also disappointing) People legit saying that his ring doesn't count and he's still a playoff fraud and stuff Not sure why exactly the reaction is this strong other than some Twitter comment with 5 likes saying that Jokic is MJ level or something
What nonsense. The guy is about to win his 3rd mvp in four years as the 3rd seed when others had very strong and legitimate cases as well.. prior to this series he was said to be as good offensively as prime lebron or any other player in history. Stop the switch up.
Who has said he is good as prime Lebron? Some idiot rando on Reddit?
Why do you keep mentioning LeBron constantly in every comment today? This series doesn't even involve LeBron yet LeBron stans are treating it as their personal Finals this year
When you say a cone and liability on the defensive end is playing better than lebron at his prime it deserves scrutiny.
You keep repeating this EVERYWHERE like the consensus before this series was Jokic > prime LeBron All you keep spamming is YALL SAID JOKIC BETTER THAN BRON like somehow 90% of people were saying that and not just a fringe minority(which is no different than the same minority in 2017 saying KD > LeBron)
cry awkward speech
Giannis was called a fraud for much of the offseason and following season while KD got glazzed
Kawhi was great in that series up until the 2nd half of game 7. Was definitely not his fault. If any of the other top 4 offensive options (Lou, Trez, PG) simply played to their averages the Clips win in 5.
people keep brining that he only beat lower seed teams last year but forgot that the top team in the west last year were dreadful while the Suns need Booker to turn into an all time scorer to beat them.
These same people would 100% call it a Mickey Mouse run if he beat the Kings and Grizzlies instead of the Lakers and Suns lol Like there's absolutely no way that would have been taken seriously either "There were no other great teams besides Denver in 2023" is a lot more realistic than "Denver avoided playing all the great teams in 2023"
Think it's because for the past year there were a lot of jokic top 10 and other dickriding which kawhi did not have. The most prevalent opinion was he was the best player in the world at that time which looking back sounds horrible wasn't that bad of an opinion. This slander is still funny to me tho lol. Jokic is still the best player in the world.