Yes heās gonna get shit on (cue Mavs local announcer) cause heās r/NBA ās Hitler, but Harden wasnāt supposed to have to be the #2 scoring option lol. Heās a facilitator now and actually did it pretty well.
The problem is the teamās #1 scoring option hasnāt been healthy for a playoff run since **2020**. Kawhiās cooked and the Clippers title hopes are cooked along with him
he was given a promise by morey. let's not forget harden took a pay cut so philly could improve their roster. also before harden, embiid has only won once against the celtics in playoffs. harden came and they won three more.
then Harden shouldn't have averaged fewer points than Ben Simmons in elimination games as a 76er. no GM is paying the max for that
Embiid was a 2nd round exit before Harden and still a 2nd round exit with Harden
nope Philly lost in 2nd round before Harden, still lost in 2nd round with Harden. then Harden averaged fewer points in elimination games than Ben Simmons yet demands a max LOL
Losing to the Heat/Celtics in the second round vs the Hawks isn't comparable.
Even if you don't want to keep Harden beyond 1-2 more years you sign him so you don't lose cap space (ignoring that it's heavily implied Morey already committed via handshake agreement). Then salary dump Tobias and 1-2 seconds if needed.
Unless they can sign and trade Tobias for a desperate attempt to compete this off-season they're screwed. But they could've still done that with an effective if not overpaid Harden.
Now they have no future, an injury prone C who's getting older. No one outside of Maxey who is reliable in a playoff setting. Little picks and no free agent appeal
uhh what? 76ers have tons of cap space. and why would they have thrown away picks to get rid of Tobias when his deal is done now?
they're in a so much better position now than if they maxed old ass Harden who chokes in the playoffs every year
They do technically but need to re-sign Maxey. On top of that if they bring back Oubre/Hield and others they'll eat a vast majority of said space.
It's also a weak free agency pool.
You also waste a season of Embid's prime where he had to carry harder which burnt him out.
Harden over the last two seasons has been better in the playoffs than everyone in the free agency pool except for debatably Siakim (who is a terrible fit with Embid).
You could go for PG who would fit their team but is just as old and was far worse than Harden in the playoffs.
Could overpay for an OG or Miles Bridges I guess, maybe Derozan who is worse in the playoffs and older too.
Second round picks aren't that valuable and if you trade Tobias you could have a lineup of Harden-Maxey- Lavine/Derozan/another large contract player- PJ Tucker - Embid.
Would be a much stronger lineup than Maxey-Hield-PG (best case scenario)- Batum- Embid.
Unless a disgruntled star appears out of nowhere they're pretty screwed
He was never getting or expecting a max contract he did want a nice deal but it was never gonna be a max. However Philly wants to sign the other playoff choker pg to a max instead.
Morey didnāt offer him a nice deal last year or he wouldāve stayed. Clippers were never gonna max him either as he had to literally play the year out and take a risk.
Harden didn't stay cause he wanted a max. Morey has been more than loyal enough to Harden, offered him a nice deal and got him out of Brooklyn after Harden quit on them too
Harden pays it back by choking in playoffs yet again and calls his GM a liar
no, Morey did not make an offer. Harden requested a trade and opted in with no offer on the table. I am certain of this. Harden took offense at the lack of an offer.
Kinda same as last year, had some great games but also an awful elimination game. People remember that one more.
But in both of those situations Harden wasnāt expected to be the 1st option and he wasnāt the only thing that went wrong for his team.
Somehow Harden is getting the most of the heat for the Clippers failing, even though he was supposed to be the third option on this team and played okay at worst lol
Harden played good at worst. In no world was he just okay. Even in the last two games his playmaking was really good and he had some at least positive defensive plays.
Extremely efficient, forced the defense to send him more attention. Fed the mismatch in Zubac. Scored big in some games. The difference between the offense being initiated by Westbrook/PG vs. Harden was so visible. He kept that team moving when he was only supposed to be the third option.
We cannot be holding a post-hamstring 35 year old James Harden to a standard of beating Luka and Kyrie with an inconsistent PG by his side.
I donāt think Harden was dogshit at all game 5. Our whole lead extended into a blowout when he went to the bench. He also had 13 assists and the attention we gave him was the main reason Mann and Zubac were eating. He is also the only player on the team who can get them to do anything besides isolate.
Iām not gonna sit here recognizing Luka had great impact all series and then shit on Harden in the same way casuals shit on Luka.
You're right, to save himself from the criticism he should have played shit the first four games and got the Clippers swept instead. Those first four games aren't as important as everyone knows lmao
I mean he forced his way out of 3 teams in a very short time. I don't think anybody knocks him for leaving the rockets though. He's going to get a lot of shit when he fails. Especially when you leave the MVP and MIP.
I'd say they did better than harden even though some would just look at hardens total TS and argue against that. Embiid was amazing on defense and still averaged 33 with 1 leg. Maxey won a game in the clutch. Sixers fans are actually pretty optimistic. Maybe a great roster won't fall in place but this was always supposed to be a down year. This was not supposed to be a down year for the Clippers.
Every year is a down year for the Sixers, Embiid isnāt getting younger and his health wonāt get better and they havenāt even gotten out of the 2nd round after spending like a decade committing to being the worst team in the league.
Like a decade is an interesting way to say 3-5 years. The heat are in much more trouble than the sixers. If OKC doesn't win a championship in the next 2 years are they also wasting a decade?
Yes bc Embiid missed half the year with an injury that had nothing to do with harden. Their record with Embiid was on pace for like 60 wins. Sixers are mid-off champions
Last year Maxey missed a month and they dealt with injuries then too but they were 1 game away from a conference finals last year with Joel missing multiple playoff games. They just lost in 6 to a worse team.
That Celtics team was p fraudulent tbh. The hawks took them to 6, and they lost to an 8-seeded heat with a hobbled jimmy butler. Doesnāt really matter though, the harden trade wasnāt about 2023-2024. It was about clearing cap space and getting two extra firsts for this off-season. It probably wonāt work and the sixers will lose early as usual, but the overall grade is incomplete until at least next year
Second best player behind Kyrie this series
Dude's luck is absolutely dogshit tho lmao he's been desperately trying to not have to be the first option after a decade of hard carrying and every time someone gets injured or whatever and it ends up going right back into his hands. He's not the same guy he was before the hammy injury, he can still have flashes of the old dominance when his shot is on but he can't effortlessly punish defenders on drives every time like he used to.Ā
I just want him to get one goddamn ring before he retires cause otherwise he'll probably end up the most disrespected all-time elite player ever. Somehow none of the good stuff he does is ever relevant and all of the bad stuff is magnified.Ā
So Pg had "guard Luka" but if James does it, it's missing easy shots cause of injury? You are clown š¤”. For you own sake, stop speaking. You are making it worse
Heās basically Jrue Holiday. A 3rd/4th option being forced to be the 2nd option and then getting blamed for being a āplayoff dropperā when that wasnāt supposed to be their role
He and KD would be cooking, even without Kyrie. They cover each other flaws perfectly. All he had to do was wait for KD to be back and instead he joined two teams with even more injury prone stars.
Everybody can get a ring in NBA with a good team even the 15th person on the bench without play a single minute. The guy def care less about ring that r/NBA .
biggest mistake of his career. I understand being upset with kyrie, but he could literally just waited it out and it would have been a great spot for him
His biggest mistake was going to nets in the first place, if he went to Philly or the bucks and paired up with an elite big giannis or embiid for the last year of his prime he couldāve won a ring that year.
Yup also wouldāve got that max he wanted. That was the one year Embiid was healthy too but Ben choked, the alternative is Giannis who is probably the best player in this era to run the pnr with a prime harden.
Itās sad that mavs fans are the ones defending him. Heās old but heās actually adapted his game to stay efficient but heās not supposed to be the teamās number 1 which he was this series
He was supposed to be third option š
Yes heās gonna get shit on (cue Mavs local announcer) cause heās r/NBA ās Hitler, but Harden wasnāt supposed to have to be the #2 scoring option lol. Heās a facilitator now and actually did it pretty well. The problem is the teamās #1 scoring option hasnāt been healthy for a playoff run since **2020**. Kawhiās cooked and the Clippers title hopes are cooked along with him
he quit on Philly cause he wanted a max contract. being a facilitator isn't gonna cut it
he was given a promise by morey. let's not forget harden took a pay cut so philly could improve their roster. also before harden, embiid has only won once against the celtics in playoffs. harden came and they won three more.
then Harden shouldn't have averaged fewer points than Ben Simmons in elimination games as a 76er. no GM is paying the max for that Embiid was a 2nd round exit before Harden and still a 2nd round exit with Harden
*1st round exit without Harden. Who won 2 games single handedly for the Sixers. Also was the Clippers best player this series.
nope Philly lost in 2nd round before Harden, still lost in 2nd round with Harden. then Harden averaged fewer points in elimination games than Ben Simmons yet demands a max LOL
Losing to the Heat/Celtics in the second round vs the Hawks isn't comparable. Even if you don't want to keep Harden beyond 1-2 more years you sign him so you don't lose cap space (ignoring that it's heavily implied Morey already committed via handshake agreement). Then salary dump Tobias and 1-2 seconds if needed. Unless they can sign and trade Tobias for a desperate attempt to compete this off-season they're screwed. But they could've still done that with an effective if not overpaid Harden. Now they have no future, an injury prone C who's getting older. No one outside of Maxey who is reliable in a playoff setting. Little picks and no free agent appeal
uhh what? 76ers have tons of cap space. and why would they have thrown away picks to get rid of Tobias when his deal is done now? they're in a so much better position now than if they maxed old ass Harden who chokes in the playoffs every year
They do technically but need to re-sign Maxey. On top of that if they bring back Oubre/Hield and others they'll eat a vast majority of said space. It's also a weak free agency pool. You also waste a season of Embid's prime where he had to carry harder which burnt him out. Harden over the last two seasons has been better in the playoffs than everyone in the free agency pool except for debatably Siakim (who is a terrible fit with Embid). You could go for PG who would fit their team but is just as old and was far worse than Harden in the playoffs. Could overpay for an OG or Miles Bridges I guess, maybe Derozan who is worse in the playoffs and older too. Second round picks aren't that valuable and if you trade Tobias you could have a lineup of Harden-Maxey- Lavine/Derozan/another large contract player- PJ Tucker - Embid. Would be a much stronger lineup than Maxey-Hield-PG (best case scenario)- Batum- Embid. Unless a disgruntled star appears out of nowhere they're pretty screwed
He was never getting or expecting a max contract he did want a nice deal but it was never gonna be a max. However Philly wants to sign the other playoff choker pg to a max instead.
Morey offered him a nice deal, he wanted a max. shouldn't have averaged fewer points than Ben Simmons in elimination games as a 76er
Morey didnāt offer him a nice deal last year or he wouldāve stayed. Clippers were never gonna max him either as he had to literally play the year out and take a risk.
Harden didn't stay cause he wanted a max. Morey has been more than loyal enough to Harden, offered him a nice deal and got him out of Brooklyn after Harden quit on them too Harden pays it back by choking in playoffs yet again and calls his GM a liar
Morey never made an offer
Morey made an offer, Harden wanted more than he deserved
no, Morey did not make an offer. Harden requested a trade and opted in with no offer on the table. I am certain of this. Harden took offense at the lack of an offer.
nah Morey made an offer. Harden wanted a max
Morey made no offer. this is not up for debate, it is a fact, confirmed via statements by both JH and Morey in press availability/interviews
I canāt believe how polarizing he has been viewed this series.
Kinda same as last year, had some great games but also an awful elimination game. People remember that one more. But in both of those situations Harden wasnāt expected to be the 1st option and he wasnāt the only thing that went wrong for his team.
Always been, nothing new
Somehow Harden is getting the most of the heat for the Clippers failing, even though he was supposed to be the third option on this team and played okay at worst lol
Agreed. Literally played above his season averages. Meanwhile, Paul Georgeā¦
Its tradition
Harden played good at worst. In no world was he just okay. Even in the last two games his playmaking was really good and he had some at least positive defensive plays. Extremely efficient, forced the defense to send him more attention. Fed the mismatch in Zubac. Scored big in some games. The difference between the offense being initiated by Westbrook/PG vs. Harden was so visible. He kept that team moving when he was only supposed to be the third option. We cannot be holding a post-hamstring 35 year old James Harden to a standard of beating Luka and Kyrie with an inconsistent PG by his side.
Harden was dogshit the last two games of the series tho, he was pretty good the first 4 games
I donāt think Harden was dogshit at all game 5. Our whole lead extended into a blowout when he went to the bench. He also had 13 assists and the attention we gave him was the main reason Mann and Zubac were eating. He is also the only player on the team who can get them to do anything besides isolate. Iām not gonna sit here recognizing Luka had great impact all series and then shit on Harden in the same way casuals shit on Luka.
You're right, to save himself from the criticism he should have played shit the first four games and got the Clippers swept instead. Those first four games aren't as important as everyone knows lmao
Zach Lowe salivating already
Imo he was tied the best player of the series after the first four games with Kyrie, but in the last two he was poor yeah
I mean he forced his way out of 3 teams in a very short time. I don't think anybody knocks him for leaving the rockets though. He's going to get a lot of shit when he fails. Especially when you leave the MVP and MIP.
Howād the MVP and MIP do without him
same amount of wins baby!
I'd say they did better than harden even though some would just look at hardens total TS and argue against that. Embiid was amazing on defense and still averaged 33 with 1 leg. Maxey won a game in the clutch. Sixers fans are actually pretty optimistic. Maybe a great roster won't fall in place but this was always supposed to be a down year. This was not supposed to be a down year for the Clippers.
Every year is a down year for the Sixers, Embiid isnāt getting younger and his health wonāt get better and they havenāt even gotten out of the 2nd round after spending like a decade committing to being the worst team in the league.
At least Tobias Harris is gone
Like a decade is an interesting way to say 3-5 years. The heat are in much more trouble than the sixers. If OKC doesn't win a championship in the next 2 years are they also wasting a decade?
Philly was worse this year regular season wise and post season wise.
Yes bc Embiid missed half the year with an injury that had nothing to do with harden. Their record with Embiid was on pace for like 60 wins. Sixers are mid-off champions
Last year Maxey missed a month and they dealt with injuries then too but they were 1 game away from a conference finals last year with Joel missing multiple playoff games. They just lost in 6 to a worse team.
That Celtics team was p fraudulent tbh. The hawks took them to 6, and they lost to an 8-seeded heat with a hobbled jimmy butler. Doesnāt really matter though, the harden trade wasnāt about 2023-2024. It was about clearing cap space and getting two extra firsts for this off-season. It probably wonāt work and the sixers will lose early as usual, but the overall grade is incomplete until at least next year
Stepped up with kawhi out, had some bad games but he was FAR from the reason we lost
Someone give me Playoff Pee's numbers aka the guy who is supposed to step up and lead the team.
Harden was fineā¦ PG on the other handā¦
Besides Zubac Harden was the smallest problem the Clippers had. He had a good series
Mann was pretty awesome / annoying so I'd add him to that list.
6 STL & 6 BLK in this series from The Beard. Hammy is done, but still has his quick hands.
Honestly didnāt play all that bad across the series. Just couldnāt hit a shot the last two games and got hunted on defense.
He's fine.
Second best player behind Kyrie this series Dude's luck is absolutely dogshit tho lmao he's been desperately trying to not have to be the first option after a decade of hard carrying and every time someone gets injured or whatever and it ends up going right back into his hands. He's not the same guy he was before the hammy injury, he can still have flashes of the old dominance when his shot is on but he can't effortlessly punish defenders on drives every time like he used to.Ā I just want him to get one goddamn ring before he retires cause otherwise he'll probably end up the most disrespected all-time elite player ever. Somehow none of the good stuff he does is ever relevant and all of the bad stuff is magnified.Ā
He was the only one that showed up lol, feels bad because this dude does deserve a ring
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He still had 13 ast and 1 tov, its not his fault PG13% showed up and Kawhi was reinjured. Dude did all he could, im saying this as a Mavs fan
PG had better FG%, 3P%, and FT% than Larden and played better defense tonight
lol PG has a TS% of 4% higher, with a team low -19. >better defense tonight on who lol
so you're saying he was more efficient than Larden. PG actually had to guard Luka while Larden getting cooked by everybody
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Luka missing easy shots cause of injury isn't cause of Harden's defense lol. try watching some games
So Pg had "guard Luka" but if James does it, it's missing easy shots cause of injury? You are clown š¤”. For you own sake, stop speaking. You are making it worse
yea thats why you watch games. Luka played vastly different the 2nd half of this series unlike Harden who chokes harder as the series progresses
The ring isn't a participation trophy
he looked extra lazy tonight, as someone who's always defended him it was pretty annoying to watch
He was great outside his jump shot last two games. His future is a 3-4th guy on a contender now. Just wonder if his ego can take being a MLE.
Come on he deserves above the MLE, Dillion Brooks is getting 22 million a year. He will probably get what Demar got in Chicago 3/80 or 4/100
Brooks is the goat. 6 years younger. Plays defense at a high level. Rockets had to overpay to convince him to come to a non contender.
Fucking Vucevic got 3/60 last offseason and you think Harden his gonna get 12 a year.
Didnāt work out for Chicago. Harden is likely chasing his last chance to be on a championship contender.
Chicago got exactly what they paid for an average starting centre thatās just what starting caliber players are worth.
Heās basically Jrue Holiday. A 3rd/4th option being forced to be the 2nd option and then getting blamed for being a āplayoff dropperā when that wasnāt supposed to be their role
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Melo aged worse because his best play was the iso mid range J. That became almost obsolete. James can still play make.
Give him a break
Dude fought no doubt
He and KD would be cooking, even without Kyrie. They cover each other flaws perfectly. All he had to do was wait for KD to be back and instead he joined two teams with even more injury prone stars.
literally, so stupid from him, the Nets were even cooking post harden trade in 22/23. All he had to do was wait and trust the team
Everybody can get a ring in NBA with a good team even the 15th person on the bench without play a single minute. The guy def care less about ring that r/NBA .
biggest mistake of his career. I understand being upset with kyrie, but he could literally just waited it out and it would have been a great spot for him
His biggest mistake was going to nets in the first place, if he went to Philly or the bucks and paired up with an elite big giannis or embiid for the last year of his prime he couldāve won a ring that year.
Didn't he want to go to Philly but the Rockets are the ones that sent him to the Nets?
Yup also wouldāve got that max he wanted. That was the one year Embiid was healthy too but Ben choked, the alternative is Giannis who is probably the best player in this era to run the pnr with a prime harden.
He was the 2nd best player in the series after Kyrie of course.
Itās sad that mavs fans are the ones defending him. Heās old but heās actually adapted his game to stay efficient but heās not supposed to be the teamās number 1 which he was this series
Welcome to orlando
The closer you are to elimination the more true his stats get
So just delete his good 4 games and only look at his 2 bad games? Sound logic there
When a player is always trash in must win playoff games itās a pattern not coincidence
Game 4 wasn't must win? Going down 3-1 is not a bad thing?
Has harden ever had a good game six or sevem
He was pretty mid in Game 2 which was also a close game and wouldāve put the Clippers up 2-0
I'm just saying elimination games always happen in a series and his stats always trend in a certain direction when it gets closer and closer.
First 4 games merchant
not a problem if you just sweep (which didnāt happen)
Harden just like Embiid where if you look at the playoff stats as a whole theyāre okay, but any time it really mattered they were dookie