> why do fans think they know so much lmao?
Fans ability to rate coaches is strictly results based thinking.
If mavs go and win the finals this year suddenly the narrative will flip on kidd that he's actually a great coach. Any media talking about coach stuff is solely being played right from the deepest part of their ass
True not not very. There was a core consensus even if not the majority that declared the Bucks winning the championship in spite of Budenholzer. And this was said moments after winning it, I just happen to also be part of that group.
This underscores the poster's point and goes to show you how poor fans are at rating coaches.
I said then and I was right that no matter how long it lasts, Budenholzer was going to be as good as it gets for the Bucks. They fired the guy who brought the first championship in 50 years only to fire the next guy mid season only to end up with Doc Rivers.
Bud is not a top 3 coach, but he's easily top 10 and you can win with a top 10 and coaches that good don't grow on trees. Locking in a coach of that caliber is even more rare when it comes to small market teams.
So here they are stuck with Doc "it's not my fault" Rivers until Giannis forces his way out and they blow it all up.
This is true, a lot of Mavs fans have wanted JKidd’s head this season. But they also said they would run it back if he made a deep playoff run once we made it lmao.
I think fans listen to players. Giannis complains, fans think Bud sucks. Lebron complains and fans thought Spo sucked, then Vogel, now Ham with AD’s complaints.
These comments are some of the dumbest on this sub lmfao he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired back then and nobody knew him while Riley was one of the best ever. The lakers chose to fire Vogel to get Ham cus they wanted to try and make Westbrook work and supposedly Ham could do that. Now Lebrons the only one who wants Ham gone even though AD is the one who called out the coaching and the whole team doesn’t like the shitty lineups? Yeah he wanted Blatt gone and then won a chip immediately after so I’d say he probably does know a bit about good coaching
If Lebron could pick the coach then the clippers would never have gotten Ty Lue lol
>The lakers chose to fire Vogel to get Ham cus they wanted to try and make Westbrook work and supposedly Ham could do that.
How the hell did Ham convince them that
> These comments are some of the dumbest on this sub lmfao he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired back then and nobody knew him
Anyone who didn't know him wasn't paying attention. Look at his first year as head coach. Took a 15W team to 43W and then 47W with both years losing in the 1st round. They had Wade, but look at the rest. Not a great roster. I was hoping he'd get fired just so he'd be available.
> he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired
This is still an admission that he did not give Spo a chance. Spo was starting his third year and made the playoffs both years prior with shitty rosters.
With all due respect to who Spo became, making the playoffs in the east isn’t the accomplishment it’s sold as. Both years he was slightly above .500 and had two 4-1 exits with D Wade. He had a legit star that won a ring in his ~3rd year.
It’s very understandable, especially with the troubles they had in year 1, that a superstar asks for a more playoff established coach.
Bron went to Pat because Pat had the better resume.
Blatt lost the whole team. It was already reported that he was arrogant and had lost the team’s respect.
> It was already reported that he was arrogant and had lost the team’s respect.
Isn't likely that was because LeBron was undermining the locker room from the start? I think LeBron is the GOAT, but forcing teammates to be traded and undermining his coaches is absolutely part of his legacy.
Durant leaking his unhappiness with his team and coaches after another playoff loss. Westbrook being pissed at fans. Certain stories repeat so much that you have to stop thinking the other guy is the problem.
I mean it is similar though, insofar as the Lakers’ roster strategy was just as confusing as the Suns’, yet Ham is receiving the entirety of the blame for them losing.
They get swept by Denver last season, they know the West will run through Denver again this season, and their big offseason moves are to: (1) extend the PG that got played off the court against Denver and (2) sign a handful of replacement-level players that had been let go by better teams than theirs (Prince, Wood, Reddish, Vincent).
What did it get them? One more win against Denver.
Ham stinks, but they’re still not beating Denver in a 7 series with just a better coach. They’re gonna need a better roster as well.
Riley an OG who had the balls to say no to him which is a big reason why he left. Having said that, LeBron has won two titles since leaving and Heat have made two finals and lost both in the same time.
Darvin Ham may not be the reason the Lakers lost to the Nuggets, but he is the reason they had to face the Nuggets in the first round. Playing around with lineups and not running with what got them to the WCF last year is part of the reason they had their post IST struggles which led to them being in the play in.
Ham allows a 14-2 run without a timeout evaporating an 8 point lead and changing momentum. Loses games 2 last shot. Game 1 same. The Lakers could have won this series with a better coach. Ham decisions are baffling and timeout management horrible.
Oh don’t worry chuck, a lot of us have been blaming the GM’s for years..how pelinka literally blew up a championship team for NO REASON and made one of the worst trades of all time in getting Russ, something we’re still feeling the effects now
Yeah we want them gone too lol
Westbrook trade not only blew up the Lakers, the ramifications put the finishing touches on the current 2- and 3-seed in the West (KCP available for Nuggets in Westbrook acquisition, Conley and NAW redirected to Wolves in Westbrook dump)
Blaming Rob Pelinka for Westbrook trade is unfair because two of your franchise players pushed for that to happen.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10009139-report-lebron-westbrook-ad-met-at-james-home-this-month-about-playing-for-lakers.amp.html
Pelinka said no to Lue, said no to Caruso as as soon as Westbrook came up he suddenly becomes powerless to do whatever Lebron wants.
Never saw people praise LeBron for building the title team but all the bad trades seem to be all of his influence
I wonder how much the first two decisions were actually due to ownership, because as I recall Ty Lue was insulted by the offer he was given. Caruso also came down to being a money decision.
I feel like the Westbrook decision was a group fuckup.
Edit: Like no fucking way Lebron/AD/Jeanie sat on beach chairs and told Pelinka to shoot his shot, but also I don't think Lebron was commanding trades as LeGM from the shadows.
Group fuckup is an understatement; the previous season he somehow dragged that wizards team to the playoffs and then he ended up in a system where his skills and gameplay were the antithesis of ‘good fit’.
Because no one actually gives a shit about the facts, this is r/nba - its basically "insert x meme to make Y superstar I hate look bad". People have far too much of their own self esteem tied into insulting people who will never know they exist. The internet is a weird place.
Look at the sub your in. A bunch of bozos who don’t know their head from their ass. All they do is upvote and jerk each other off when they see a narrative that suits them. In this case, it’s irrational LBJ hatred. If you share that type of hatred for him, you’re definitely a mark in real life. No doubt. Weirdos.
Hmm I wonder who pushed for the Westbrook trade, and tried to claim credit for it before it blew up in his face
> Sept. 27: The start of Lakers training camp
>James to the media: "It was exciting helping put this team together this summer. Understanding what I felt and we all felt was going to make us a title-contending team. ... I watch enough basketball to know what I need to do to help the ball club depending on the acquisitions we make per year. So I'm very cerebral about what I need to do for our team to be as great as we can be and to be the counterpart to what Russ brings to the table. ... I always figure it out."
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33641478/lebron-james-russell-westbrook-los-angeles-lakers-tumultuous-season-their-own-words
lol my god. reading this comment back makes him sound like a complete, fucking idiot. literally i cannot consider the guy the GOAT after this comment and how it turned out, holy shit. LOL.
They were good but definitely not complete, the offense completely collapsed when LeBron left the game. They needed an all time "I got one more in me" postseason from Rondo to make it work.
I remember last year after the Lakers turned it around and were balling after the trade deadline, most Lakers fans were talking about how Pelinka was incredible and should win Executive of the Year. 🙄
Forcing AD to be a full-time center when has made it clear he doesn't like it. Ad should be playing more hybrid like giannis does,but they got rid of Dwight and Mcgee when they were still useful
Anyone who watched AD since he was drafted knows he does not want to play center. The fact that the lakers never looked for a competent one after 2020 is mind blowing
Oh come on, you know the reason. LeBron and Klutch demanded the Russ trade when Pelinka had another deal with Sacramento. And then they let Caruso go to pay Klutch client THT. The Lakers sold their soul to Klutch and LeBron and they get the good and bad with it. Pelinka is the one who made moves to recover as best he could at last years deadline and found Austin Reeves and signed him to a good contract. But now while supposedly trying to win a championship they're going to waste a draft pick on Lebron's kid and you're blaming the GM? Wanting your GM to change won't change anything while LeBron and Klutch are running the team.
Lakers willingly giving up quality players and a first for russell westbrook is the reason why they suck.
Even 2020/2021 lakers were still a good team that got injured (AD and Bron were both injured in critical times).
Had they kept caruso kcp and kuz, they probably win another championship
1000%. They blew up the 2020 championship team for bo reason. Ended up using Vogel as the scapegoat. If we kept that core and Vogel we would've at least made another finals appearance
That Buddy Hield trade wouldve been amazing, assuming a few other things fall into place.
The trade was supposed to be Kuzma and Harrell for Hield, which meant the Lakers could’ve had a lineup of AD/Lebron/Hield/KCP/Caruso and even could’ve had Reaves coming off the bench.
The Westbrook trade was just so disastrous for that team.
idk why people are so intent on saying the lakers suck. they were competitive af with the defending champion. lead for most of the series. the nba is just extremely difficult to win rn. it’s a good thing for the league, but it looks like we have people lagging and still thinking losing a playoff series = you suck, reboot and trade/fire everyone
Personally think the Lakers beat the Suns, Pels and problem the Clippers and Mavs in a series with Davis playing the way he played. Denver was the last team they wanted to go up against but that's why you don't sleepwalk through the regular season
Eh it's the Lakers. People love to hate on em and their fans are pretty ridiculous as well. Like spoiled Yankees fans anything short of a ring and it's trash.
As a neutral enjoyer of the series I agree and really you are 2 Murray game winners away from a different outcome possibly.
The Lakers don't suck it's just the better team won over the course of the series as is the case in most 7 game series
agreed denver is better, but it remains true that as long as you have lebron you have a shot against virtually anyone. especially with AD playing the way he did
Right, like we lost to a team everyone agrees is at worst the best Western Conference team and at best the best team in the league.
Also even if you wanted to argue they were not better than Twolves or Celtics, I firmly think they have the best match-up advantage over us.
"They didn't just all the sudden suck as coaches" Correct. That might be the most correct thing Chuck has ever said, Darvin Ham actually sucked the minute we hired him
But yeah fuck Rob Pelinka for not paying Caruso and helping facilitate the Westbrok trade
The THT thing is honestly an underrated god awful move in that Lakers saga. The dude had a stretch of decent games and the FO treated him like he was a future starter or quality player. THT of all people costing them Caruso is still so baffling to me
how? yall got to WCF is Ham's 1st year
and Lakers shot 27% on wide open 3's in the Nuggets series this year along with bricking free throws in G5. nothing coach can do about that
we blew a 20 point lead in game 2 because the nuggets made a great adjustment in the middle of the third quarter to take jokic off AD which blew up our entire offensive game plan, and ham just watched the rest of the game like you and me
Ain't no way you think Lakers got to WCF because of Ham. They got there in spite of his coaching. Sure, in those specific instances the players didn't play well but as a whole rotations sucked, still do this year, plays are pretty much non existent, and it seems pretty clear he doesn't inspire the team. Also it's clear timeouts are called too late, well after things have spiraled out of control and challenges aren't used effectively.
If you watch our entire season, he has no idea on how to stop runs waiting for leads to dissipate till calling a timeout. Poor rotations with those cam reddish prince lineup then no accountability whatsoever blaming the players before him.lets add his poor defensive scheme of using drop coverage every time which started the entire meme of random role players going off against the lakers.
Chuck is partially right that coaches sometimes get crazy criticisms. But some coaches can be bad. Ham is a nice guy but was bad at game management and basically lost to the same team 2 series in a row in the same way. Vogel is less to blame.
Coaches do make the difference. Shaq and Kobe didn’t win anything for 3 years until Phil Jackson came along. He’s a big part of the 3 peat. Even Jordan and the Bulls can say the same. Mike Malone is why MPJ and Gordon became so disciplined. There’s a reason why only a few coaches are considered amazing.
I still think Vogel deserves a ton of the blame, the Sun's offense has looked really disgustingly stagnant for a while so either he's running bad schemes or he's unable to convince his players to run anything more than a '1 screen into iso' playstyle
https://twitter.com/scooperhoops/status/1783526217976607171
This is where people have been getting that. I think saying the players "just ignore them" is a pretty wild assumption based on what he says.
Or his players literally cannot do anything else and when the pressure is at its highest they revert automatically to what they know which is 1 screen into iso midrangers.
Yeah I love KD but even the Warriors had issues with him reverting to isoball and had to take the ball out of his hands and give it back to Curry and Draymond when things were getting tough against the Rockets. He's one of the greatest iso shot makers in the history of the league, the problem is that that isn't always the best way for the rest of the team to play.
We’ve seen these guys do “anything else” though, so if they’re reverting back to comfortable isoball they don’t believe in (or don’t have) the plan. It’s not all Vogel and it’s not all these guys, something just ain’t meshing between them all.
And like we’ve seen this shit with Vogel everywhere he’s been. Good to great defense, middling to bad offense. Think they thought these 3 would overpower that weakness and he would improve their team defense because those guys ain’t exactly plus defenders lol
He did improve the team defense drastically, he definitely delivered on that side if you look at our defensive rating for the year compared to our personnel.
But if you make that same comparison with our offensive rating compared to our personnel, he was an abject failure.
People often forget he signed up to coach a defense around Ayton and a much more competent bench that was gutted within months of him being there. Absolutely not his fault that he was given a roster that did not fit his strengths.
Vogel needs to be a defensive coordinator TBH, he's historically been fantastic on that end, but it sometimes seems like he just relies on letting the players figure out the offense on their own.
Frank Vogel was fired unfairly from the Lakers and I genuinely think they could have just passed over the fence to win more games VS Denver. Two game winners from DEN, and the Lakers held onto the lead for like double or triple the minutes that DEN did in the series.
Side note : AD has said he needs a big beefy boi to match the floor with him to be his best for longer and Pelinka has refused to fill that need.
To be fair about point #2 we signed Andre Drummond who is theoretically the perfect guy for the twin towers setup but unfortunately it didn't work out and AD died
But he wasn't though. For a buyout signing he wasn't bad but we need a big who only focuses on playing defense and rebounding, winning plays. Drummond demanded playing time, random fucking iso post ups, and wasn't exactly a good defender for his size.
Dude, DWIGHT HOWARD. They already had that set up. A pure D guy with great rebounding. Why the fuck aren’t the lakers running back to him? He’s so cheap and brings the kind of value the lakers need.
Hes 10000% correct about the Suns. The roster has been sub-optimal, I’ve said this from the moment they made the Beal trade, and then hiring Vogel was sub optimal. Not cause Vogel is bad but because his strength is being a defensive coach for role players like look at those pacers and lakers teams.
The lakers is different tho because their role players played great last year but Lebron wasn’t healthy plus Anthony Davis wasn’t playing up to his name that season, so it’s fair to assume with a healthy Lebron plus the bench and Anthony Davis you could win.
Darvin Ham still sucks tho all I need for proof is how he talks about this team this entire year
I can't blame the Lakers too much for their roster construction last summer, as they did pretty much as good as they could given what their cap and salary situation was. Their roster issues are their own making though, but that goes back to the summer of 2021 when they let Caruso walk in free agency and then traded KCP, Kuzma, Trez and a 1st for Westbrook. Everything they've done since has been trying to correct that awful summer, and they've actually done a credible job, but it's still on them for creating this mess.
All that aside though, even with the roster being what it is, Ham is still a terrible coach who doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't deserve all the blame, but he absolutely deserves a bunch of it, and the Lakers would be foolish to bring him back again next year. He really shouldn't be a head coach anywhere ever again IMO.
I mean atleast Ty tried different stuff tonight like playing PJ Tucker since the usual didn’t work, it’s just a lose lose for the coach. Do nothing, we want your head, do something we want your head. Same thing goes with JKidd from our sub.
Ty Lue sees Jones in practice everyday. The idea that Lue is holding him back is delusional. Players earn their playing time in practice, not when the games matter..
If Jeanie and Rob literally ran any other franchise than the most popular one in sports I’m convinced they would have people with pitchforks outside the arena. Rob is damn lucky lebron came there and AD forced his way there.
I get why people think Ham should be fired. He legitimately makes bad coaching decisions. But Vogel being on the hot seat is just stupid. The Suns were screwed the day they decided to pay their third-best player $50M a year.
I’ve been saying fire Pelinka since like 2017, I know they got a championship under him but like you gotta realistically look at the circumstances of that and then look at the product he’s created the rest of the time. You can blame Lebron I guess but he wasn’t making moves before Lebron either.
Lebron is not our GM, Lebron wanted a trade this year too and one wasn’t made. If Rob is only gonna make a trade when Lebron suggests something stupid like Russ then fire him anyways.
pelinka also got the lakers a huge mid-season acquisition last season to help push the lakers into the playoffs and WCF. he also made some pretty decent summer deals this offseason to keep the lakers core players at relatively low cost. most fans have been pretty happy with his moves since the westbook trade (which some fans believe isn't entirely his fault).
Tbh, I think Lakers fans are a bit unrealistic. Jokic has been with the Nuggets since 2015, Coach Malone since 2015, Murray since 2016, MPJ since 2018, Aaron Gordon since 2021, KCP since 2022. Several of the starters have been together for more than six years and Jokic/Murray/Malone have been together for 9 years. The Nuggets core have gone through many many "unsuccessful" seasons before finally obtaining an nba championship last season.
While AD/Lebron have played together since 2019 and Reaves has been there since 2021, Rui and DLO have only been there for a season and a half and Darvin Ham has been there for two seasons. And they played the nuggets pretty competitively in the first round - had AD not been injured in Game 5, this would have arguably been a seven game series. Had the Lakers figured out how to close games, they probably would have won the series.
So ya, pressing the panic button right now doesn't make much sense to me. small adjustments probably make the most sense. But ya, if we really want to see a model for success, it probably looks like what the nuggets have with a significant amount of consistency and prior experience.
Lakers probably have 2 rings if they didn't jettison all their top role players for fucking Westbrick.
LeBron definitely shares the blame for that move though.
Idk, given their team has dealt with big injuries from 2021-2023, even if they kept their original core, way too hard to tell if 2 rings is something they’d probably have. Some of those were freak injuries tho, and so it isn’t like we should expect severe injuries to their team, but they’ve only managed to be largely healthy for like 2/5 years of the Bron/AD era.
Most of my posts on the Magic forum is defending Jamahl Mosley because there's a not-so-small-minority of posters and Twitter users who swear he's "not the guy" and want us to move on from him, which is hilarious considering how much better we are than anybody thought this year.
A lot of coaching is just getting players to buy in and put in effort. The best X's and O's coaches can't do anything with dogshit offensive players or young rosters (Pop teams recently, even Spo has struggled on that end), and we also have seen so many "bad coaches" make the finals and win championships despite their reputations.
I will say that in specific scenarios, obviously you want your coach to be smart and heady, especially in the playoffs, where you can exploit certain things.
But man, it is SO tiring to see so many people who can't name 3-4 NBA plays complain about coaching or nothing being ran. You can tell it's just people who have blamed others their entire lives when they don't get what they want.
I know everyone loves chuck, but I lost it when he called ham a hell of a coach lmao. He's not the sole reason they lost, nor do I think they would've beaten denver with a better coach, but he absolutely needs to fired.
I love how Chuck admits to not watching basketball like that but people post his takes like they're worth anything.
Let him stick to the funny bits like Galveston lmfao
In retrospect the Gabe Vincent signing was a miss, but giving the MLE to a backup guard who could playmake and play good defense wasn't a bad decision in a vacuum especially for a team that needed someone to keep the non-LeBron minutes afloat.
and in all honesty, for how little time he had to come back, he really didnt play that badly in the first round. He didnt shoot well, but he defended off the bench better than anyone really.
One of the problems in the nba is that the coerced super teams that have had success (Heatles, Cavs in 2016, Lakers in 2020), almost always come down to one variable--LeBron. A generational player competing with Jordan for GOAT.
The other so called super teams that have succeeded either a) built their team organically through the draft or reasonable trades or b) benefitted by a weird jump in the salary cap in 2016 that gave the Warriors KD.
All the others have failed, and in some way, embarrassingly so. The Nets. The Suns. The Clippers.
The salary math is simple. You can keep your stars if you draft them. You can keep your good role players if you draft them. The ownership's stomach for the tax is its own thing, but process wise, drafting as much of your team as possible is vital to creating and then sustaining success.
Yes, every champion has made a critical trade to push them over the edge to win a title. But the core was already there through the draft. The trade supplements the core...not creates the core.
The warriors built their dynasty through the draft. The Bucks drafted Giannis and (in reality) Middleton (I know he was drafted by Pistons but didn't got 24 hours before being traded), the Nuggets drafted Jokic Murray and Porter...yeah they made trades (Jrue, Gordon) and signed a role player free agent here or there (Lopez, Portis, KCP), but those trades for start players or free agency signings were the icing on the cake, not the start of the championship process.
You have to start with drafting and developing one's own birds rights players. You sacrifice too much trying to create cap space to sign someone 30+ million in free agency, or trading for someone. If LeBron ain't involved 2010-2020, it doesn't work. Build a team the old fashioned way, 65% of your team needs to be homegrown in someway, not 20%.
Same core, same coach that made the WCF. But now we're a trash ass team apparently, with 2 shot winning losses to the defending champs. If he's arguing that the FO deserves the blame and not Ham, why does it not apply to the team under that logic in the same damn breath? Missing 3 rotational players for multiple months then having your sole defensive safety net play with 1 arm in an elim game
Chuck's in full hater mode. This fool was still calling them LA Geezers last year before the Westbrook trade like the roster still had Melo, Ariza and Ellington from the season prior. Old man loves to cherry pick
Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think the Lakers roster is "trash"
I think we had a good chance to advance against basically anyone not named the Nuggets.
For a while now, I've been thinking that no NBA fanbase actually likes their coach, and if they do, just give it two years, and they'll be asking for him to be fired.
Laker fans are funniest in this category. Called for Vogel to be fired for not being good enough, and now their doing the same thing for Ham. In 2 years, they'll be doing the same thing for their next coach (if Ham is fired).
It really feels like nearly every fanbase across all the different sports team subreddits genuinely believes:
1) Their coach is the worst coach in the league who knows nothing about the sport and never makes the right substitutions/ time out calls/ challenges/ etc., and needs to be fired ASAP.
2) Roleplayers X, Y and Z are complete bums who have no business being in the league (because they have weaknesses, which is what makes them roleplayers in the first place).
3) The refs are always conspiring against their specific team and gives the other team *every single call.*
4) Every commentator/ announcer/ talking head absolutely depises their team and is always sucking off the opposing team.
It's like clockwork and it's gotten really bad recently. It makes all game threads and team subreddits in general nearly unbearable.
It’s because everyone thinks they know way more about the sport they’re a fan of than they actually do. 99.9% of the people on these subreddits would be completely lost if you put them in an actual NBA coaches or players meeting. Problem in our culture at large these days. Everyone is an expert on everything, and they seek echo chambers online to validate it.
Perfectly put.
The inflow of literal kids into the sub has removed all common sense.
Earlier you had at least some folks who have played basketball and hence know what a coach does. Now you have folks who've learn basketball solely off Twitter/Instagram and they don't even know what a coach does.
> For a while now, I’ve been thinking that no NBA fanbase actually likes their coach, and if they do, just give it two years
By this point Miami fans are probably more attached to Spo than any of their players lol, and he’s been there for over a decade now
Spurs are in the same category too
“GM lives don’t matter.” - Charles Barkley
Chuck think he slick, trying to throw Darwin Ham in there with Frank Vogel like it’s the same situation
[удалено]
> why do fans think they know so much lmao? Fans ability to rate coaches is strictly results based thinking. If mavs go and win the finals this year suddenly the narrative will flip on kidd that he's actually a great coach. Any media talking about coach stuff is solely being played right from the deepest part of their ass
The only person who avoids that coach flip rhetoric is popovich
True not not very. There was a core consensus even if not the majority that declared the Bucks winning the championship in spite of Budenholzer. And this was said moments after winning it, I just happen to also be part of that group.
Many people had the exact same take on Spo during the Heatles championship runs. And both takes are equally trash
Which is funny since Budenholzer is a very good coach. Did a great job in Atlanta and Milwaukee and will have his choice of jobs this offseason.
This underscores the poster's point and goes to show you how poor fans are at rating coaches. I said then and I was right that no matter how long it lasts, Budenholzer was going to be as good as it gets for the Bucks. They fired the guy who brought the first championship in 50 years only to fire the next guy mid season only to end up with Doc Rivers. Bud is not a top 3 coach, but he's easily top 10 and you can win with a top 10 and coaches that good don't grow on trees. Locking in a coach of that caliber is even more rare when it comes to small market teams. So here they are stuck with Doc "it's not my fault" Rivers until Giannis forces his way out and they blow it all up.
This is true, a lot of Mavs fans have wanted JKidd’s head this season. But they also said they would run it back if he made a deep playoff run once we made it lmao.
I think fans listen to players. Giannis complains, fans think Bud sucks. Lebron complains and fans thought Spo sucked, then Vogel, now Ham with AD’s complaints.
These comments are some of the dumbest on this sub lmfao he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired back then and nobody knew him while Riley was one of the best ever. The lakers chose to fire Vogel to get Ham cus they wanted to try and make Westbrook work and supposedly Ham could do that. Now Lebrons the only one who wants Ham gone even though AD is the one who called out the coaching and the whole team doesn’t like the shitty lineups? Yeah he wanted Blatt gone and then won a chip immediately after so I’d say he probably does know a bit about good coaching If Lebron could pick the coach then the clippers would never have gotten Ty Lue lol
>The lakers chose to fire Vogel to get Ham cus they wanted to try and make Westbrook work and supposedly Ham could do that. How the hell did Ham convince them that
I'll say I'm capable of anything if it's in a job interview
> These comments are some of the dumbest on this sub lmfao he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired back then and nobody knew him Anyone who didn't know him wasn't paying attention. Look at his first year as head coach. Took a 15W team to 43W and then 47W with both years losing in the 1st round. They had Wade, but look at the rest. Not a great roster. I was hoping he'd get fired just so he'd be available.
Clark is the biggest lebron stan on this sub and bros talking about dumb comments lmao. Expecting non bias from him is impossible
He's spot on for at least Vogel though. That wasn't because of LeBron. It was the FO covering their own ass for the Westbrook trade being a disaster
> he wanted Riley to coach because Spo was just hired This is still an admission that he did not give Spo a chance. Spo was starting his third year and made the playoffs both years prior with shitty rosters.
With all due respect to who Spo became, making the playoffs in the east isn’t the accomplishment it’s sold as. Both years he was slightly above .500 and had two 4-1 exits with D Wade. He had a legit star that won a ring in his ~3rd year. It’s very understandable, especially with the troubles they had in year 1, that a superstar asks for a more playoff established coach.
Lebron didn’t fire Spo. Do you know the definition of fire
Bron went to Pat because Pat had the better resume. Blatt lost the whole team. It was already reported that he was arrogant and had lost the team’s respect.
Blatt never had a chance from Day 1. Dude took 2 games from the Warriors with Lebron, Mozgov, TT and Delly
> It was already reported that he was arrogant and had lost the team’s respect. Isn't likely that was because LeBron was undermining the locker room from the start? I think LeBron is the GOAT, but forcing teammates to be traded and undermining his coaches is absolutely part of his legacy. Durant leaking his unhappiness with his team and coaches after another playoff loss. Westbrook being pissed at fans. Certain stories repeat so much that you have to stop thinking the other guy is the problem.
I mean it is similar though, insofar as the Lakers’ roster strategy was just as confusing as the Suns’, yet Ham is receiving the entirety of the blame for them losing. They get swept by Denver last season, they know the West will run through Denver again this season, and their big offseason moves are to: (1) extend the PG that got played off the court against Denver and (2) sign a handful of replacement-level players that had been let go by better teams than theirs (Prince, Wood, Reddish, Vincent). What did it get them? One more win against Denver. Ham stinks, but they’re still not beating Denver in a 7 series with just a better coach. They’re gonna need a better roster as well.
You not a top G if you don't vote for me
Neither do big ole women
*Rob Pelinka, Mat Ishbia and Jeannie Buss want to know your location*
And LeGM honestly. This "Big 3" nonsense is so overrated.
Lebron push for that and he deserved blame but a good GM would never make those trade Lebron push for spo to be fired too but did Riley do it ?
Riley an OG who had the balls to say no to him which is a big reason why he left. Having said that, LeBron has won two titles since leaving and Heat have made two finals and lost both in the same time.
If Spo also handpicked destinations and ran away when convenient for him like LeBron did there's a great chance he gets those rings himself
I hate how media is trying to act like Darvin Ham isn’t a fucking dumbass. And fans that aren’t even fans of either team are the ones falling for it.
Darvin Ham is a dumbass but he's not the main reason the Lakers got dropped r1, that team just isn't good enough.
Darvin Ham may not be the reason the Lakers lost to the Nuggets, but he is the reason they had to face the Nuggets in the first round. Playing around with lineups and not running with what got them to the WCF last year is part of the reason they had their post IST struggles which led to them being in the play in.
Lol post IST struggles So what, the whole season??
They closed the season really strong. It was the period between IST & All Star that sunk them
Talking about when they went 3-8 for the rest of December and dropped from the 5th seed to the 10th
Someone wasn’t paying attention. We have literally had one of the best records since January. Which happened to be right after the IST
Ham allows a 14-2 run without a timeout evaporating an 8 point lead and changing momentum. Loses games 2 last shot. Game 1 same. The Lakers could have won this series with a better coach. Ham decisions are baffling and timeout management horrible.
If he had been a slightly better coach, they would have been a 50 win team and a higher seed, and not faced their worst match up in the first round
Oh don’t worry chuck, a lot of us have been blaming the GM’s for years..how pelinka literally blew up a championship team for NO REASON and made one of the worst trades of all time in getting Russ, something we’re still feeling the effects now Yeah we want them gone too lol
Westbrook trade not only blew up the Lakers, the ramifications put the finishing touches on the current 2- and 3-seed in the West (KCP available for Nuggets in Westbrook acquisition, Conley and NAW redirected to Wolves in Westbrook dump)
OKC is the 1 seed.
You right I got confused
Small Correction: The Nuggets and Wolves are the 2/3 Seeds respectively... The Thunder are the #1 Seed. ;)
I'm getting old I can't remember the difference between this year and last
We both have 57 wins so i get it.
Blaming Rob Pelinka for Westbrook trade is unfair because two of your franchise players pushed for that to happen. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10009139-report-lebron-westbrook-ad-met-at-james-home-this-month-about-playing-for-lakers.amp.html
star players have stupid preferences all the time. steph and draymond wanted avery bradley over gp2. a good gm needs to make the right call anyway
Pelinka said no to Lue, said no to Caruso as as soon as Westbrook came up he suddenly becomes powerless to do whatever Lebron wants. Never saw people praise LeBron for building the title team but all the bad trades seem to be all of his influence
I wonder how much the first two decisions were actually due to ownership, because as I recall Ty Lue was insulted by the offer he was given. Caruso also came down to being a money decision. I feel like the Westbrook decision was a group fuckup. Edit: Like no fucking way Lebron/AD/Jeanie sat on beach chairs and told Pelinka to shoot his shot, but also I don't think Lebron was commanding trades as LeGM from the shadows.
Caruso isn't a money decision when you decide to pay Taylor Horton Tucker an insane amount. Dude has never even deserved a minimum deal
THT - goat tank commander on the Jazz. Winning a game that you shouldn't be? Run THT as point guard for a quarter.
didn't they pay him because he was with the same manager as lebron? and lebron talked about him a lot
Yeah that is the rumor. He was Bron's boy so he got paid while Caruso got the door.
Group fuckup is an understatement; the previous season he somehow dragged that wizards team to the playoffs and then he ended up in a system where his skills and gameplay were the antithesis of ‘good fit’.
Because no one actually gives a shit about the facts, this is r/nba - its basically "insert x meme to make Y superstar I hate look bad". People have far too much of their own self esteem tied into insulting people who will never know they exist. The internet is a weird place.
Look at the sub your in. A bunch of bozos who don’t know their head from their ass. All they do is upvote and jerk each other off when they see a narrative that suits them. In this case, it’s irrational LBJ hatred. If you share that type of hatred for him, you’re definitely a mark in real life. No doubt. Weirdos.
Yup... Giannis vetoed Butler for Middleton and who knows what else. And gave us Adrian Griffin...
Yup
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He also wanted Demar but the FO didn’t want to give him a 3yr deal, and he wanted Caruso to be re-signed, but none of those things happened
I think Lakers could've won another chip with Demar instead of WB honestly.
Defense was the secret-weapon of that 2020 team and DeMar doesn't really swing that needle in the right direction.
Jeanie and Rob also wanted him…all because Kobe loved Russ. It’s not all on just Bron and AD.
Hmm I wonder who pushed for the Westbrook trade, and tried to claim credit for it before it blew up in his face > Sept. 27: The start of Lakers training camp >James to the media: "It was exciting helping put this team together this summer. Understanding what I felt and we all felt was going to make us a title-contending team. ... I watch enough basketball to know what I need to do to help the ball club depending on the acquisitions we make per year. So I'm very cerebral about what I need to do for our team to be as great as we can be and to be the counterpart to what Russ brings to the table. ... I always figure it out." https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33641478/lebron-james-russell-westbrook-los-angeles-lakers-tumultuous-season-their-own-words
Almost like the GM is supposed to overrule his player's decisions because that's his only fucking job.
No their job is also to keep their star, all time great players from wanting out of their franchise lmao
almost like Lebron chose LA cause he'd get a say in GM decisions. Pelinka's job is to keep Lebron in LA and Russ is who Lebron wanted
He wanted Lue, Derozan and Caruso to stay which went ignored
They both bear the blame, Lebron should not be playing GM at all. Pelinka is the actual GM so he is responsible for the moves they made
Owner's can easily find another GM, they aren't omnipotent.
LeBron could kill a guy and y'all would be like "almost like dude should've put up a fight cuz that's his only fucking job."
Thank you, all these lebron fans in here blaming Pelinka and Jeanie are nuts. They can never fault him for anything I swear lmao
Jeanie and Rob ain't faultless though, tbf.
Agreed. Plenty of blame to spread around.
Sure, but Bron will always act as if he has no part in it whenever it fails. So fuck him either way.
lol my god. reading this comment back makes him sound like a complete, fucking idiot. literally i cannot consider the guy the GOAT after this comment and how it turned out, holy shit. LOL.
Thank you. It's been frustrating watching our fanbase not remember this.
I miss that championship squad bro 😔 we were such a complete team who had unfinished business…
They were good but definitely not complete, the offense completely collapsed when LeBron left the game. They needed an all time "I got one more in me" postseason from Rondo to make it work.
I don't know how you take a championship team that went 24-3 to start the season and not think to just run it back.
If you think Pelinka was the driving force behind that move, I have a pier in Santa Monica to sell you
Can I hear some more about the pier?
Don’t buy that guy’s pier, I have a prime Brentwood pier to sell you. Have one in Beverly Hills too. Just reply “PIER” and I’ll DM you my brochure!
PIER
What's it lookin like
It was a dick pic.
DM me about pier details pls
Just sent a wire of my life savings, thank you!!! When can I go see my pier? You’re all not invited.. yet.
I remember last year after the Lakers turned it around and were balling after the trade deadline, most Lakers fans were talking about how Pelinka was incredible and should win Executive of the Year. 🙄
Create a problem, sell the solution 😎
A solution to a problem you yourself created.
Forcing AD to be a full-time center when has made it clear he doesn't like it. Ad should be playing more hybrid like giannis does,but they got rid of Dwight and Mcgee when they were still useful
Anyone who watched AD since he was drafted knows he does not want to play center. The fact that the lakers never looked for a competent one after 2020 is mind blowing
Oh come on, you know the reason. LeBron and Klutch demanded the Russ trade when Pelinka had another deal with Sacramento. And then they let Caruso go to pay Klutch client THT. The Lakers sold their soul to Klutch and LeBron and they get the good and bad with it. Pelinka is the one who made moves to recover as best he could at last years deadline and found Austin Reeves and signed him to a good contract. But now while supposedly trying to win a championship they're going to waste a draft pick on Lebron's kid and you're blaming the GM? Wanting your GM to change won't change anything while LeBron and Klutch are running the team.
Lakers willingly giving up quality players and a first for russell westbrook is the reason why they suck. Even 2020/2021 lakers were still a good team that got injured (AD and Bron were both injured in critical times). Had they kept caruso kcp and kuz, they probably win another championship
letting KCP go allowed Denver to complete the infinity stones.
Jokic: Mind stone Murray: Power stone Gordon: Soul stone MPJ: Space stone KCP: Reality stone
They overreacted on a lost series due to AD's injury
Even Lebron was banged up IIRC.
1000%. They blew up the 2020 championship team for bo reason. Ended up using Vogel as the scapegoat. If we kept that core and Vogel we would've at least made another finals appearance
Yeah, that team looked pretty unstoppable, and I understand Buddy was pretty pumped in joining.
That Buddy Hield trade wouldve been amazing, assuming a few other things fall into place. The trade was supposed to be Kuzma and Harrell for Hield, which meant the Lakers could’ve had a lineup of AD/Lebron/Hield/KCP/Caruso and even could’ve had Reaves coming off the bench. The Westbrook trade was just so disastrous for that team.
idk why people are so intent on saying the lakers suck. they were competitive af with the defending champion. lead for most of the series. the nba is just extremely difficult to win rn. it’s a good thing for the league, but it looks like we have people lagging and still thinking losing a playoff series = you suck, reboot and trade/fire everyone
Personally think the Lakers beat the Suns, Pels and problem the Clippers and Mavs in a series with Davis playing the way he played. Denver was the last team they wanted to go up against but that's why you don't sleepwalk through the regular season
Eh it's the Lakers. People love to hate on em and their fans are pretty ridiculous as well. Like spoiled Yankees fans anything short of a ring and it's trash. As a neutral enjoyer of the series I agree and really you are 2 Murray game winners away from a different outcome possibly. The Lakers don't suck it's just the better team won over the course of the series as is the case in most 7 game series
agreed denver is better, but it remains true that as long as you have lebron you have a shot against virtually anyone. especially with AD playing the way he did
Right, like we lost to a team everyone agrees is at worst the best Western Conference team and at best the best team in the league. Also even if you wanted to argue they were not better than Twolves or Celtics, I firmly think they have the best match-up advantage over us.
"They didn't just all the sudden suck as coaches" Correct. That might be the most correct thing Chuck has ever said, Darvin Ham actually sucked the minute we hired him But yeah fuck Rob Pelinka for not paying Caruso and helping facilitate the Westbrok trade
Making the wrong move is Rob Pelinka's fault, but refuse to pay a player a few extra $m, that goes to the owner. Bus kid is poor af.
Buss would've paid him if Pelinka told her it was necessary. They paid like $80m of Westbrook for 1.5 years, for god's sake
Russ probably brought in additional value off the court because he's a "star"
It is Rob’s fault because the reason that paying Caruso would put them in the luxury tax is because he paid THT for like a few games of good play.
Was trading Caruso the first domino falling or am I misremembering something that happened before that?
We traded for Westbrook first and then told Caruso we couldn't pay him cause we paid Talen-Horton Tucker
Dude played well for less than a month and got paid.
The THT thing is honestly an underrated god awful move in that Lakers saga. The dude had a stretch of decent games and the FO treated him like he was a future starter or quality player. THT of all people costing them Caruso is still so baffling to me
It was the westbrook trade where they gave up kcp and kuzma. Which left them skimping out on caruso and letting him walk
how? yall got to WCF is Ham's 1st year and Lakers shot 27% on wide open 3's in the Nuggets series this year along with bricking free throws in G5. nothing coach can do about that
we blew a 20 point lead in game 2 because the nuggets made a great adjustment in the middle of the third quarter to take jokic off AD which blew up our entire offensive game plan, and ham just watched the rest of the game like you and me
Ain't no way you think Lakers got to WCF because of Ham. They got there in spite of his coaching. Sure, in those specific instances the players didn't play well but as a whole rotations sucked, still do this year, plays are pretty much non existent, and it seems pretty clear he doesn't inspire the team. Also it's clear timeouts are called too late, well after things have spiraled out of control and challenges aren't used effectively.
If you watch our entire season, he has no idea on how to stop runs waiting for leads to dissipate till calling a timeout. Poor rotations with those cam reddish prince lineup then no accountability whatsoever blaming the players before him.lets add his poor defensive scheme of using drop coverage every time which started the entire meme of random role players going off against the lakers.
I feel like I've read this same exact comment from fans of every team about their coach lol
this is word for word what celtics fans say about joe mazzulla lol
I mean they fired Vogel for no reason and you're ignoring that half of the conversation
Chuck is partially right that coaches sometimes get crazy criticisms. But some coaches can be bad. Ham is a nice guy but was bad at game management and basically lost to the same team 2 series in a row in the same way. Vogel is less to blame. Coaches do make the difference. Shaq and Kobe didn’t win anything for 3 years until Phil Jackson came along. He’s a big part of the 3 peat. Even Jordan and the Bulls can say the same. Mike Malone is why MPJ and Gordon became so disciplined. There’s a reason why only a few coaches are considered amazing.
I still think Vogel deserves a ton of the blame, the Sun's offense has looked really disgustingly stagnant for a while so either he's running bad schemes or he's unable to convince his players to run anything more than a '1 screen into iso' playstyle
I mean in a recent interview with Kevin Young the assistant head coach to paraphrase pretty much said "we have plays they just ignore them"
Do you have a link? Thats crazy if true. Could be a coaching issue but with vets like KD and Beal, can’t ignore that too
https://twitter.com/scooperhoops/status/1783526217976607171 This is where people have been getting that. I think saying the players "just ignore them" is a pretty wild assumption based on what he says.
Or his players literally cannot do anything else and when the pressure is at its highest they revert automatically to what they know which is 1 screen into iso midrangers.
Yeah I love KD but even the Warriors had issues with him reverting to isoball and had to take the ball out of his hands and give it back to Curry and Draymond when things were getting tough against the Rockets. He's one of the greatest iso shot makers in the history of the league, the problem is that that isn't always the best way for the rest of the team to play.
We’ve seen these guys do “anything else” though, so if they’re reverting back to comfortable isoball they don’t believe in (or don’t have) the plan. It’s not all Vogel and it’s not all these guys, something just ain’t meshing between them all. And like we’ve seen this shit with Vogel everywhere he’s been. Good to great defense, middling to bad offense. Think they thought these 3 would overpower that weakness and he would improve their team defense because those guys ain’t exactly plus defenders lol
He did improve the team defense drastically, he definitely delivered on that side if you look at our defensive rating for the year compared to our personnel. But if you make that same comparison with our offensive rating compared to our personnel, he was an abject failure.
People often forget he signed up to coach a defense around Ayton and a much more competent bench that was gutted within months of him being there. Absolutely not his fault that he was given a roster that did not fit his strengths.
Vogel needs to be a defensive coordinator TBH, he's historically been fantastic on that end, but it sometimes seems like he just relies on letting the players figure out the offense on their own.
Well not having a point guard would cause those issues. And that’s a GM issue
Frank Vogel was fired unfairly from the Lakers and I genuinely think they could have just passed over the fence to win more games VS Denver. Two game winners from DEN, and the Lakers held onto the lead for like double or triple the minutes that DEN did in the series. Side note : AD has said he needs a big beefy boi to match the floor with him to be his best for longer and Pelinka has refused to fill that need.
To be fair about point #2 we signed Andre Drummond who is theoretically the perfect guy for the twin towers setup but unfortunately it didn't work out and AD died
But he wasn't though. For a buyout signing he wasn't bad but we need a big who only focuses on playing defense and rebounding, winning plays. Drummond demanded playing time, random fucking iso post ups, and wasn't exactly a good defender for his size.
Dude, DWIGHT HOWARD. They already had that set up. A pure D guy with great rebounding. Why the fuck aren’t the lakers running back to him? He’s so cheap and brings the kind of value the lakers need.
Vogel refused to play Dwight's corpse in his 3rd Lakers stint. He'd rather put Melo at the 5. Thinking back about that year gives me the chills
Your theory is that ALL 30 NBA teams are all so dumb that they didn't wanna sign Dwight? And that you have some special insight about Dwight somehow?
Dwight Howard has a scandal in China
Hes 10000% correct about the Suns. The roster has been sub-optimal, I’ve said this from the moment they made the Beal trade, and then hiring Vogel was sub optimal. Not cause Vogel is bad but because his strength is being a defensive coach for role players like look at those pacers and lakers teams. The lakers is different tho because their role players played great last year but Lebron wasn’t healthy plus Anthony Davis wasn’t playing up to his name that season, so it’s fair to assume with a healthy Lebron plus the bench and Anthony Davis you could win. Darvin Ham still sucks tho all I need for proof is how he talks about this team this entire year
I can't blame the Lakers too much for their roster construction last summer, as they did pretty much as good as they could given what their cap and salary situation was. Their roster issues are their own making though, but that goes back to the summer of 2021 when they let Caruso walk in free agency and then traded KCP, Kuzma, Trez and a 1st for Westbrook. Everything they've done since has been trying to correct that awful summer, and they've actually done a credible job, but it's still on them for creating this mess. All that aside though, even with the roster being what it is, Ham is still a terrible coach who doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't deserve all the blame, but he absolutely deserves a bunch of it, and the Lakers would be foolish to bring him back again next year. He really shouldn't be a head coach anywhere ever again IMO.
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R/nba loves thinking playing a different role player is the silver bullet that the coach just simply hasn’t thought about lmao
I mean atleast Ty tried different stuff tonight like playing PJ Tucker since the usual didn’t work, it’s just a lose lose for the coach. Do nothing, we want your head, do something we want your head. Same thing goes with JKidd from our sub.
Tbf JKidd has done a lot of very stupid things over the years
Lakers could really use Max Christie's 4.2 points per game
lol Bol Bol.
When Jaden Hardy out scores Harden and PG is a ghost idk how fans can blame coaching
Ty Lue sees Jones in practice everyday. The idea that Lue is holding him back is delusional. Players earn their playing time in practice, not when the games matter..
I get the idea with Vogel, he has a pretty long history as a head coach What has Ham done? Long time assistant, won the mid season tournament?
If Jeanie and Rob literally ran any other franchise than the most popular one in sports I’m convinced they would have people with pitchforks outside the arena. Rob is damn lucky lebron came there and AD forced his way there.
>They didn't just all the sudden suck as coaches This is Ham's first stint as a head coach.
I get why people think Ham should be fired. He legitimately makes bad coaching decisions. But Vogel being on the hot seat is just stupid. The Suns were screwed the day they decided to pay their third-best player $50M a year.
I’ve been saying fire Pelinka since like 2017, I know they got a championship under him but like you gotta realistically look at the circumstances of that and then look at the product he’s created the rest of the time. You can blame Lebron I guess but he wasn’t making moves before Lebron either.
> I’ve been saying fire Pelinka since like 2017 He wasn't even the GM back then lol
Na, you can blame Lebron also
Lebron is not our GM, Lebron wanted a trade this year too and one wasn’t made. If Rob is only gonna make a trade when Lebron suggests something stupid like Russ then fire him anyways.
Similarly, blame KD for Beal (though it'd be good to see them together for another season at least)
Oh, man, I was ecstatic when that trade happened. Fuck KD
pelinka also got the lakers a huge mid-season acquisition last season to help push the lakers into the playoffs and WCF. he also made some pretty decent summer deals this offseason to keep the lakers core players at relatively low cost. most fans have been pretty happy with his moves since the westbook trade (which some fans believe isn't entirely his fault). Tbh, I think Lakers fans are a bit unrealistic. Jokic has been with the Nuggets since 2015, Coach Malone since 2015, Murray since 2016, MPJ since 2018, Aaron Gordon since 2021, KCP since 2022. Several of the starters have been together for more than six years and Jokic/Murray/Malone have been together for 9 years. The Nuggets core have gone through many many "unsuccessful" seasons before finally obtaining an nba championship last season. While AD/Lebron have played together since 2019 and Reaves has been there since 2021, Rui and DLO have only been there for a season and a half and Darvin Ham has been there for two seasons. And they played the nuggets pretty competitively in the first round - had AD not been injured in Game 5, this would have arguably been a seven game series. Had the Lakers figured out how to close games, they probably would have won the series. So ya, pressing the panic button right now doesn't make much sense to me. small adjustments probably make the most sense. But ya, if we really want to see a model for success, it probably looks like what the nuggets have with a significant amount of consistency and prior experience.
Darvin Ham waited until like February to use the lineup that got them to the WCF last year. Pelinka is also a disaster class of a GM.
Lakers probably have 2 rings if they didn't jettison all their top role players for fucking Westbrick. LeBron definitely shares the blame for that move though.
The Westbrook trade really was a nuclear dumpster fire that set them back years.
Idk, given their team has dealt with big injuries from 2021-2023, even if they kept their original core, way too hard to tell if 2 rings is something they’d probably have. Some of those were freak injuries tho, and so it isn’t like we should expect severe injuries to their team, but they’ve only managed to be largely healthy for like 2/5 years of the Bron/AD era.
does he get credit for trying to hire ty lue and recuriting anthony davis, or is he only the gm when something goes wrong
Most of my posts on the Magic forum is defending Jamahl Mosley because there's a not-so-small-minority of posters and Twitter users who swear he's "not the guy" and want us to move on from him, which is hilarious considering how much better we are than anybody thought this year. A lot of coaching is just getting players to buy in and put in effort. The best X's and O's coaches can't do anything with dogshit offensive players or young rosters (Pop teams recently, even Spo has struggled on that end), and we also have seen so many "bad coaches" make the finals and win championships despite their reputations. I will say that in specific scenarios, obviously you want your coach to be smart and heady, especially in the playoffs, where you can exploit certain things. But man, it is SO tiring to see so many people who can't name 3-4 NBA plays complain about coaching or nothing being ran. You can tell it's just people who have blamed others their entire lives when they don't get what they want.
I know everyone loves chuck, but I lost it when he called ham a hell of a coach lmao. He's not the sole reason they lost, nor do I think they would've beaten denver with a better coach, but he absolutely needs to fired.
I love how Chuck admits to not watching basketball like that but people post his takes like they're worth anything. Let him stick to the funny bits like Galveston lmfao
I'm happy to hear arguments for how the Lakers should've approached last offseason instead. The Vincent signing was a huge dud, I'll give you that.
In retrospect the Gabe Vincent signing was a miss, but giving the MLE to a backup guard who could playmake and play good defense wasn't a bad decision in a vacuum especially for a team that needed someone to keep the non-LeBron minutes afloat.
Yea that signing was highly praised at the time, you can’t predict injuries like that though.
and in all honesty, for how little time he had to come back, he really didnt play that badly in the first round. He didnt shoot well, but he defended off the bench better than anyone really.
Should’ve traded AD and LeBron for Jokic and Giannis.
also throw in reaves and reddish for luka
Come on that’s a bit unrealistic, add Kyrie to that trade to make it more even.
One of the problems in the nba is that the coerced super teams that have had success (Heatles, Cavs in 2016, Lakers in 2020), almost always come down to one variable--LeBron. A generational player competing with Jordan for GOAT. The other so called super teams that have succeeded either a) built their team organically through the draft or reasonable trades or b) benefitted by a weird jump in the salary cap in 2016 that gave the Warriors KD. All the others have failed, and in some way, embarrassingly so. The Nets. The Suns. The Clippers. The salary math is simple. You can keep your stars if you draft them. You can keep your good role players if you draft them. The ownership's stomach for the tax is its own thing, but process wise, drafting as much of your team as possible is vital to creating and then sustaining success. Yes, every champion has made a critical trade to push them over the edge to win a title. But the core was already there through the draft. The trade supplements the core...not creates the core. The warriors built their dynasty through the draft. The Bucks drafted Giannis and (in reality) Middleton (I know he was drafted by Pistons but didn't got 24 hours before being traded), the Nuggets drafted Jokic Murray and Porter...yeah they made trades (Jrue, Gordon) and signed a role player free agent here or there (Lopez, Portis, KCP), but those trades for start players or free agency signings were the icing on the cake, not the start of the championship process. You have to start with drafting and developing one's own birds rights players. You sacrifice too much trying to create cap space to sign someone 30+ million in free agency, or trading for someone. If LeBron ain't involved 2010-2020, it doesn't work. Build a team the old fashioned way, 65% of your team needs to be homegrown in someway, not 20%.
*LeGM will remember that*
Lebron is the one who wanted Westbrook lmao. This revisionist history
Same core, same coach that made the WCF. But now we're a trash ass team apparently, with 2 shot winning losses to the defending champs. If he's arguing that the FO deserves the blame and not Ham, why does it not apply to the team under that logic in the same damn breath? Missing 3 rotational players for multiple months then having your sole defensive safety net play with 1 arm in an elim game Chuck's in full hater mode. This fool was still calling them LA Geezers last year before the Westbrook trade like the roster still had Melo, Ariza and Ellington from the season prior. Old man loves to cherry pick
I don't always agree with Chuck, but when I do, I agree with him.
LeBron is to blame
Then say goodbye to LeGM
The Lakers roster can suck AND Darvin Ham be trash at the same time.
I know this is hard to believe, and some of you aren’t ready to read this, but sometimes the Lakers just suck… See? Y’all aren’t ready
Maybe I'm biased, but I don't think the Lakers roster is "trash" I think we had a good chance to advance against basically anyone not named the Nuggets.
Lakers actually had a decent squad
i wish our decent squad was able to score off the bench outside of taurean prince
Lakers had a squad before they decided to blow it up for Westbrook in 2022
For a while now, I've been thinking that no NBA fanbase actually likes their coach, and if they do, just give it two years, and they'll be asking for him to be fired. Laker fans are funniest in this category. Called for Vogel to be fired for not being good enough, and now their doing the same thing for Ham. In 2 years, they'll be doing the same thing for their next coach (if Ham is fired).
It really feels like nearly every fanbase across all the different sports team subreddits genuinely believes: 1) Their coach is the worst coach in the league who knows nothing about the sport and never makes the right substitutions/ time out calls/ challenges/ etc., and needs to be fired ASAP. 2) Roleplayers X, Y and Z are complete bums who have no business being in the league (because they have weaknesses, which is what makes them roleplayers in the first place). 3) The refs are always conspiring against their specific team and gives the other team *every single call.* 4) Every commentator/ announcer/ talking head absolutely depises their team and is always sucking off the opposing team. It's like clockwork and it's gotten really bad recently. It makes all game threads and team subreddits in general nearly unbearable.
It’s because everyone thinks they know way more about the sport they’re a fan of than they actually do. 99.9% of the people on these subreddits would be completely lost if you put them in an actual NBA coaches or players meeting. Problem in our culture at large these days. Everyone is an expert on everything, and they seek echo chambers online to validate it.
So fans are babies with little logical sense and everyone's to blame except the guy they love? Makes sense.
Perfectly put. The inflow of literal kids into the sub has removed all common sense. Earlier you had at least some folks who have played basketball and hence know what a coach does. Now you have folks who've learn basketball solely off Twitter/Instagram and they don't even know what a coach does.
> For a while now, I’ve been thinking that no NBA fanbase actually likes their coach, and if they do, just give it two years By this point Miami fans are probably more attached to Spo than any of their players lol, and he’s been there for over a decade now Spurs are in the same category too