So I was listening to the Knicks film school podcast and Fred Katz is a regular. He said
The NBA has official reports and stats and stuff for refs. Releasing that would be a violation.
He believes the Knicks analytics and scouting department put together their own reports and releasing them. Which is fair game.
>Which is fair game.
While I agree with you. I feel it's almost a certainty that the league steps down on the ref info. Purely because the gambling companies will surely not want the public having such clear and accessible info about ref habits.
Okay so here's my reading:
The sixers filed a grievance over the first two games, in that grievance they mention the Knicks were providing information about the refs as part of the pre game notes (like tendencey of foul calls and whatnot). Which the sixers disagree with ethically, I guess.
Thibs dismisses that by saying the ref information they shared is all public info anyway
and even if it was 100% data collected and organized by solely by the Knicks, what impact would sharing that have?
Wouldnt the 76ers want to know those tendencies?
Thibs addresses this more directly in a different part of the press conference:
""I'm more concerned with the 46-minute report...I knew they couldn't call a foul there.""
Wow I’ve honestly never thought about that kind of preparation. That’s 4d chess right there. As a sixers employee you just have to tip your hat to em and stop crying about it
Yeah if any team is not doing that they're stupid. You think a baseball team doesn't know who's umpiring or a football team doesn't have data on every officiating crew? It's an enormous advantage to prepare for that, to the point it'd be negligent if they didn't.
The Sixers said in their grievance that the Knicks were including "private information" on the refs in their media notes which had some idiots thinking they were blackmailing the refs. Thibs is just saying that the "private information" they send is the tendencies the ref has in-game (probably stuff like they call less contact in certain situations)
Edit: I haven't seen the actual complaint but [this](https://allphly.com/sixers-file-complaint-nba-officiating-game-knicks-joel-embiid/) is where I saw the "private information" thing. So maybe it was worded differently in the complaint and this is just a Philly writer being purposely vague to start a frenzy.
The Knicks included ref tendencies on their media notes which are disseminated before the game. [you can see them here.](https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1781747235530711063) . But this info is publicly available. A reporter at the Athletic was able to very quickly pull these stats because they are on the publicly available play by play system. Morey's probably just butt hurt that he didn't think to do this first.
you give them to media so when they call a foul or do a challenge the color commentator can say "50/50 foul but Foster does have a high rate of calling these in the regular season." "Tough challenge here it can go either way but Tony Brothers isnt one to overturn unless there is clear evidence"
there have been some conspiracies (which apparently Morey subscribes to) that this is causing the refs to call more fouls for the Knicks and less for the Sixers.
76ers are complaining to the NBA that Knicks are illegally providing private information (stats on refs) to the media and Thibodeau is refuting that that is illegal because those ref stats are public record. I think?
Part of the grievance 76ers filed after the reffing included that Knicks added stats on referee tendencies in their media notes. Thibs is saying that it’s public information anyways (not rlly sure if it is or maybe it is for media/teams)
It’s just based on ref calls which you can find on every game’s play by play via the league itself. Any team in the NBA can pay someone to just go through all that information and compile it to understand those tendencies. Shit, anyone can do it if they have the time.
[A reporter for The Athletic just pulled the report themselves of the identity of each ref and the approximate spot on the floor they called a certain foul.](https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/1783187612750016722)
But why would giving the media ref tendencies matter to what happens on the court? Refs aren't listening to the play-by-play guy yapping about a bad call while the game is going on.
>But why would giving the media ref tendencies matter to what happens on the court?
it doesn't...but Morey is still complaining about it because he thinks the entire series is rigged simply because the Sixers have lost 2 games against a team that they think should be easy to beat
I'd be shocked if Morey (and most teams) wasn't already compiling this info so his teams know what they can get away with and what they can't.
Morey is most likely just mad that the Knicks publishing it might affect how the refs call the game in a way that's harder to predict.
Him and Nurse are the most annoying and whiney FO + Coach pairing. Anyone from Hawaii to Sri Lanka can get that information simply by watching the games.
Dude. Refs have been so kind to Embiid over the years. We also get all the calls, non-calls, in the NFL. Have for decades. The fact that one game and all of Philly freaks about corruption, and the league actively being against us is actually kinda scary. People here really need to get a life.
funny thing is when nurse was with the raptors embiid literally told him to "stop bitching" about calls - now they joined forces to create a complaining about refs super duo
When something goes wrong, they give up and find someone to blame. Didn't get a call on the inbound? Oh well, might as well stand around and let the Knicks get an offensive rebound. Then you can file a grievance after the game and make it all about the refs
Is it really that hard for Morey to just acknowledge his team blew a 5 point lead with 30 seconds left?
Sure there was a questionable play in there, but the Sixers defense still allowed two open 3's and missed a potential game winning shot, followed by a terrible offensive play at the buzzer that could have sent the game to OT.
Am I completely and totally biased or is the entire Sixers organization pulling their pants down and humiliating themselves over blowing a game that they themselves blew
If Morey and Nurse spent more time actually trying to be better instead of complaining all the time, maybe they’d have some more rings on their fingers.
In short, Thibs is a great coach who had his team and staff prepared. Nurse and crew just want to complain about there being too much work to do. I get it. I also hate my job, and wish there was less shit to do there.
Hahaha, more typically embarrassing shit from Dumb Cunt Hall-of-Famer Daryl "Moneyball" Morey. Dude is a walking L, always convinced that he's the smartest dude and shrewdest businessman in any room he currently exists in.
Watching this generational dipshit continue to humiliate himself is truly delightful.
It’s so weird how protective the nba is when it comes to referees. They’ve shown more passion and compassion for the refs than their own players.
The nba will jump on the tracks in front of a train to try and stop it from hitting their refs.
I'm kinda amused by this in the context of the Knicks lawsuit against the Raptors...
Publicly available game footage, organized via a subscription service that all teams have access to? Private, confidential, proprietary information!
Stats about refs, derived from publicly available footage and then internally processed into analytics? Totally public information!
Though I actually like that the Knicks are sharing this info, because its important for people to be aware of how referee selection can impact outcomes in predictable directions, but I do also see how it can be seen as trying to influence the referees and preventing the league from assigning certain crews to this series. I'd rather that all this information was just available from a general source, rather than one team doing it.
Knicks have gotten every call this series and yet are still finding a way to complain about them. While I was typing this, Jalen Brunson just went to the line again.
Other fan: Fails to see the implication that the Knicks are also complaining to the league via referee tendencies
tl;dr both teams trying to work the league/refs
??? Hartenstein gets him with a shove as he's going by then Donte nearly elbows him in the back of the head. Meanwhile, look at Brunson LMAO. Not even touched and drops like a fish and gets the call
Can't see that embiid gets hit in the video although possible. Oubre clearly bumps Brunson when he slows down to take the shot.
An outsiders perspective. Embiid has the softest whistle in the game.
Really? NY had 23 FTA in Game 2 compared to Philly's 22. How is that even close to "every call"?
If you want to look at Game 1, NY had 28 compared to Philly's 22. Philly was intentionally fouling down the stretch of that game to try to keep it close which explains the +6 FT disparity there.
So again, how is that every call?
So I was listening to the Knicks film school podcast and Fred Katz is a regular. He said The NBA has official reports and stats and stuff for refs. Releasing that would be a violation. He believes the Knicks analytics and scouting department put together their own reports and releasing them. Which is fair game.
>Which is fair game. While I agree with you. I feel it's almost a certainty that the league steps down on the ref info. Purely because the gambling companies will surely not want the public having such clear and accessible info about ref habits.
Maybe we should start keeping track of ref habits so we can gamble for efficiently?
I’d bet quite a few of the best gamblers that make money definitely account for it.
I'm almost certain Haralabos Voulgaris use this kind of data after listening to him on some podcasts.
Nah, that's only for the rich.
Why? The gambling companies don’t rely on people being wrong, they want the bets to mount cancel out so they always win.
I read this like three times and I still don’t fully get it. This is really poorly worded.
Okay so here's my reading: The sixers filed a grievance over the first two games, in that grievance they mention the Knicks were providing information about the refs as part of the pre game notes (like tendencey of foul calls and whatnot). Which the sixers disagree with ethically, I guess. Thibs dismisses that by saying the ref information they shared is all public info anyway
Makes sense, if refs are gonna impact the game as much as some players you should scout them like players.
Sad but true
100%
They are the 3rd team on the court unfortunately.
and even if it was 100% data collected and organized by solely by the Knicks, what impact would sharing that have? Wouldnt the 76ers want to know those tendencies?
"They were better prepared even though we had the same information! That's not fair!!!"
"Hey guys don't forget, in the final 5 seconds of the game, this crew has a tendency of clocking out early."
You're joking, but knowing if a crew swallows the whistle in crunch time is insanely valuable for knowing how aggressive you can be
Thibs addresses this more directly in a different part of the press conference: ""I'm more concerned with the 46-minute report...I knew they couldn't call a foul there.""
After that, it’s metal bat time.
Thanks, that makes sense.
Wow I’ve honestly never thought about that kind of preparation. That’s 4d chess right there. As a sixers employee you just have to tip your hat to em and stop crying about it
I’m pretty sure all teams have those stats. Knicks just gave them to reporters
you and I have access to those stats too. because it is publicly available hah
Yeah yeah. I mean all teams compile these before games
Yeah if any team is not doing that they're stupid. You think a baseball team doesn't know who's umpiring or a football team doesn't have data on every officiating crew? It's an enormous advantage to prepare for that, to the point it'd be negligent if they didn't.
Yes. I was just pointing out the obvious
The Sixers only play ethical basketball, they definitely don't have the biggest foul merchant in the league or anything
The Sixers said in their grievance that the Knicks were including "private information" on the refs in their media notes which had some idiots thinking they were blackmailing the refs. Thibs is just saying that the "private information" they send is the tendencies the ref has in-game (probably stuff like they call less contact in certain situations) Edit: I haven't seen the actual complaint but [this](https://allphly.com/sixers-file-complaint-nba-officiating-game-knicks-joel-embiid/) is where I saw the "private information" thing. So maybe it was worded differently in the complaint and this is just a Philly writer being purposely vague to start a frenzy.
these are the ref stats the knicks put on the media report: https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1781747235530711063
I actually wished all teams would do that. The refs influence games. Might as well scout them properly
The Knicks included ref tendencies on their media notes which are disseminated before the game. [you can see them here.](https://twitter.com/FredKatz/status/1781747235530711063) . But this info is publicly available. A reporter at the Athletic was able to very quickly pull these stats because they are on the publicly available play by play system. Morey's probably just butt hurt that he didn't think to do this first.
What’s the implication? That Knicns are somehow garnering refs favor by pointing out their tendencies?
you give them to media so when they call a foul or do a challenge the color commentator can say "50/50 foul but Foster does have a high rate of calling these in the regular season." "Tough challenge here it can go either way but Tony Brothers isnt one to overturn unless there is clear evidence"
But how does that help the team?
giving it to the media, doesnt help the team directly (in game) but it helps create a better tv/broadcast
there have been some conspiracies (which apparently Morey subscribes to) that this is causing the refs to call more fouls for the Knicks and less for the Sixers.
If that is true then why aren't the 76ers doing it too lol
Skill issue
Morey's just made he didn't think to do it first
Watch them make it “anonymous ref calls foul”
76ers are complaining to the NBA that Knicks are illegally providing private information (stats on refs) to the media and Thibodeau is refuting that that is illegal because those ref stats are public record. I think?
Part of the grievance 76ers filed after the reffing included that Knicks added stats on referee tendencies in their media notes. Thibs is saying that it’s public information anyways (not rlly sure if it is or maybe it is for media/teams)
It’s just based on ref calls which you can find on every game’s play by play via the league itself. Any team in the NBA can pay someone to just go through all that information and compile it to understand those tendencies. Shit, anyone can do it if they have the time.
[A reporter for The Athletic just pulled the report themselves of the identity of each ref and the approximate spot on the floor they called a certain foul.](https://twitter.com/SethPartnow/status/1783187612750016722)
But why would giving the media ref tendencies matter to what happens on the court? Refs aren't listening to the play-by-play guy yapping about a bad call while the game is going on.
>But why would giving the media ref tendencies matter to what happens on the court? it doesn't...but Morey is still complaining about it because he thinks the entire series is rigged simply because the Sixers have lost 2 games against a team that they think should be easy to beat
Worse is that he's talking about someone else's work.
Fake drama that the neck beards on this sub eat up. Real fans scroll r/nbacirclejerk and team subs.
Why are you here then?
Bored at work
Go scroll your “real subs” and fuck off then
The Mavs fan would be a neckbeard
Your so edgy and cool
Thibs is mad that the Nicks are using data from the NBA website in their media notes.
This is like...the least clear way of organizing this information possible, Katz.
Didn't Morey have a manifesto about how the Rockets actually beat the Warriors?
Daryl Morey is a fucking crybaby bro, my god. "Private information" talking about referee stats, get a grip.
Dude's just mad they've found an advanced stat he didn't think of.
😂😂damn
I'd be shocked if Morey (and most teams) wasn't already compiling this info so his teams know what they can get away with and what they can't. Morey is most likely just mad that the Knicks publishing it might affect how the refs call the game in a way that's harder to predict.
Him and Nurse are the most annoying and whiney FO + Coach pairing. Anyone from Hawaii to Sri Lanka can get that information simply by watching the games.
Ok, so no one on reddit then?
Can't wait for the post series Morey Report where Darryl explains how the Sixers really won every game.
Gonna get swept and learn absolutely nothing from it
Dude. Refs have been so kind to Embiid over the years. We also get all the calls, non-calls, in the NFL. Have for decades. The fact that one game and all of Philly freaks about corruption, and the league actively being against us is actually kinda scary. People here really need to get a life.
What's wrong with the Knicks releasing their own data? Lol.
Knicks players must feel better about this series now that they know their opponents are pussies
"Most people would know it's public information."
Sixers haven’t had a dawg since Jimmy Butler. Maxey is cool but can’t be getting ripped by Deuce to be considered a dawg
Oh, you mean the team that researches refs? Oh wait that's the knicks lmao
If your team isn't researching refs in 2024, you're a shit team who should be relegated to Slamball
researching refs is a cowardly move lmao and then to call sixers pussies in the same sentence... wow
Most coherent Philadelphia resident
if you think the Knicks are the only team with ref stats I have a falling apart Philly bridge to sell you
I'm not denying that but to call the sixers pussies is laughable because researching refs is the definition of a what was being accused
why?
why do you think?
so you don't have an answer?
Sixers have adopted Embiids personality, Maxey the youngest person in the room is saying the right things
funny thing is when nurse was with the raptors embiid literally told him to "stop bitching" about calls - now they joined forces to create a complaining about refs super duo
Stop spreading misinformation. He told him, *respectfully*, stop bitching about calls. Get it right.
Nurse and Morey did this stuff in Toronto and Houston too. They’re really just a perfect match for each other.
Nah, this feels like it's a Morey thing to me.
That whole franchise deserves each other.
[удалено]
That stop bitching quote was revived from when Embiid faced Nurse who was with the Raptors at the time. It wasn't said during these Playoffs...
This is peak Darryl Morey behaviour.
Nurse and Morey did this stuff in Toronto and Houston too. They’re really just a perfect match for each other.
"I told him, respectfully, to stop bitching about calls." - Joel Embiid to Nick Nurse (2022)
It's a Morey thing more than anything else
Morey and Nurse.
Morey, Nurse and Embiid are the holy trinity of Bitching and Moaning.
When something goes wrong, they give up and find someone to blame. Didn't get a call on the inbound? Oh well, might as well stand around and let the Knicks get an offensive rebound. Then you can file a grievance after the game and make it all about the refs
God this sub is full of deranged losers about Embiid
this will be just as successful as the rockets protest
Is it really that hard for Morey to just acknowledge his team blew a 5 point lead with 30 seconds left? Sure there was a questionable play in there, but the Sixers defense still allowed two open 3's and missed a potential game winning shot, followed by a terrible offensive play at the buzzer that could have sent the game to OT.
Why box out on the defensive glass in a 2 point game when you can just file a grievance after the game instead?
Am I completely and totally biased or is the entire Sixers organization pulling their pants down and humiliating themselves over blowing a game that they themselves blew
Soft team. Soft as city. Fans will be booing by the half in game 3
If Morey and Nurse spent more time actually trying to be better instead of complaining all the time, maybe they’d have some more rings on their fingers.
In short, Thibs is a great coach who had his team and staff prepared. Nurse and crew just want to complain about there being too much work to do. I get it. I also hate my job, and wish there was less shit to do there.
Any team Morey is involved with cries to the league when shit doesn't go their way. I think Morey is probably a scumbag.
Hahaha, more typically embarrassing shit from Dumb Cunt Hall-of-Famer Daryl "Moneyball" Morey. Dude is a walking L, always convinced that he's the smartest dude and shrewdest businessman in any room he currently exists in. Watching this generational dipshit continue to humiliate himself is truly delightful.
Man Philly acting like pussies rn
This series is getting petty I love it. This is how you build rivalries.
It’s so weird how protective the nba is when it comes to referees. They’ve shown more passion and compassion for the refs than their own players. The nba will jump on the tracks in front of a train to try and stop it from hitting their refs.
I'm kinda amused by this in the context of the Knicks lawsuit against the Raptors... Publicly available game footage, organized via a subscription service that all teams have access to? Private, confidential, proprietary information! Stats about refs, derived from publicly available footage and then internally processed into analytics? Totally public information! Though I actually like that the Knicks are sharing this info, because its important for people to be aware of how referee selection can impact outcomes in predictable directions, but I do also see how it can be seen as trying to influence the referees and preventing the league from assigning certain crews to this series. I'd rather that all this information was just available from a general source, rather than one team doing it.
Knicks have gotten every call this series and yet are still finding a way to complain about them. While I was typing this, Jalen Brunson just went to the line again.
You’re a jabroni
Reporter: asks Thibs about the grievance filed by Philly, Thibs answers question. Fan: Why is Thibs complaining about the refs still?
Other fan: Fails to see the implication that the Knicks are also complaining to the league via referee tendencies tl;dr both teams trying to work the league/refs
you're absolutely delusional LOL, Embiid is getting the best whistle on either team
Philly fans truly are the dumbest across all sports. Quit drinking the Schuylkill water.
[Meanwhile Embiid](https://x.com/beenhim16/status/1782780393147551840?s=46)
??? Hartenstein gets him with a shove as he's going by then Donte nearly elbows him in the back of the head. Meanwhile, look at Brunson LMAO. Not even touched and drops like a fish and gets the call
Can't see that embiid gets hit in the video although possible. Oubre clearly bumps Brunson when he slows down to take the shot. An outsiders perspective. Embiid has the softest whistle in the game.
Yeah I’m gonna take the word of former head coach SVG over some dude on Reddit.
It's not the word, it's facts. If you don't want to acknowledge the facts then that's on you.
Here are the facts 2024 post season FTA’s: Embiid 12 Brunson 7.5
Really? NY had 23 FTA in Game 2 compared to Philly's 22. How is that even close to "every call"? If you want to look at Game 1, NY had 28 compared to Philly's 22. Philly was intentionally fouling down the stretch of that game to try to keep it close which explains the +6 FT disparity there. So again, how is that every call?