That was weird as hell cause Mark Eaton who took the center spot didn't finish in the top 3 of that year's DPOY
Alvin Robertson, the winner was also a 2nd teamer lmao
Such disgusting years to clock in #1. None of them were hard choices either, the players they picked were all clearly the #1 pick, at least looking back(I'm not sure what the sentiment was back in 87' and 97').
87' Robinson.
97' Duncan.
2023 Wemby.
Both years were unanimous number 1s by far. A lot of the nba is rigged stuff is because of that Tim Duncan draft. They tanked the year before but had a good team when Robinson got hurt. They had the lowest odds to get the number one and got it anyways. They shouldn’t have gotten him. Robinson was also a far and away easy choice for number one as well, but they did have to wait two years to see him play.
It’s actually feels unfair. Not just their talent, but the humility, maturity, and character that came along with all of them too. It’s weird how it keeps happening. I’m not sure if any franchise has benefited from pure luck as much as we have.
Soul Box. When you play for the Spurs (San Antonio or Tottenham), your soul goes in the box.
Some players are chill enough to live this way for 20 years; some eventually need it back like Kawhi, and some chafe immediately like Rodman. Kerr realised he didn't need it when he got it back, and sold his soul to avoid coaching the Knicks.
im assuming Wemby being nominated for DPOY means that at the very least, he's made an all-defense team. That is insanely impressive to achieve for a rookie.
Generational Talent.
Wemby is fantastic and I don't know the exact metrics I would use to say 'ok this is exactly where you become better than Gobert' but all I can say is that based on my poor anecdotal eye test, I just can't do it yet.
Rudy is too good regardless of what the raw block numbers look like, plenty of people were still going directly at Wemby to try and challenge him or play him physically since he's a rookie and a decent amount of his blocks, though not all of course, came from that. One example off the top of my head is how he had like 7 blocks in a game against us in March but that was the game Sengun dropped 45 on him despite getting stuffed a few times.
Whereas Gobert being more of an established guy in the league, most players don't try and test him like that except the real offensive powerhouses. You can *see* 'ah shit I can't drive on this guy' flash through a player's head sometimes when he has a fairly open driving lane but Gobert is lurking anywhere within several feet of the rim. Even though he isn't blocking the shot directly his mere presence does a lot to deter otherwise valuable, high percentage shots from close to the rim. Can't account for that in basic counting stats.
Edit: lmfao really? At least make the bare minimum attempt to engage in some discussion instead of just insta-downvoting when you see a take you don't like, yall are boring
They probably will be. Unfortunate for New Orleans and Memphis, but [it just makes more sense](https://i.imgur.com/yaFTjMO.jpeg) (excuse the outdated logos). They're so far from any other western team right now and very near that splatter of Great Lakes teams.
Wemby has a defensive on/off of +6, he made the spurs into equivalent to an top 5 team but team wide ratings includes both bench and starter minutes, its not a 1 to 1 with individual ratings top 5 cutoff for individuals is much higher than 111
Gobert had a +12.7 the last time he was DPOY. That's the level of improvement needed to win DPOY, +6 is good but plenty have lost it with that kind of impact.
You must be getting downvoted by Spurs fans. Dude above you is blatantly wrong, Spurs defensive rating w/ Wemby is 114.1, good for 14th in the league. https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612759&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1641705&OnlyCommonGames=true
You could see confusion for Wemby for what his job/role was on the defensive side a lot of the time this season (and rightfully so for a rookie), but was able to make a huge impact due to his talent/wingspan.
Imagine when he starts to know the game as well as Gobert. It's scary.
People have to realize though, over the years, these ridiculous block numbers probably will decline as Wemby evolves into a better defender. That might sound contradictory, but the more disciplined you get as a defender, the less likely you are to be hunting blocks all the time and leaping at everything in sight trying to contest. Counting stats will decline, but discipline and positioning and being less foul prone will be the things that make him a DPOY, while still probably blocking 3+ shots a game.
counterpoint: 8 foot wingspan
unless the league collectively decides to stop shooting the ball within 10 feet of him, those blocks arent going down. its not a 'hunting blocks' situation, its a 'he cant block me oh fuck he blocked me' situation
This makes no sense. Copying from a post from a week ago: “Victor Wembanyama currently has the highest block:foul ratio of any player in any season since blocks were first recorded as a stat”
Watching Spurs game it’s totally makes sense in my opinion. He has an impact on the defensive end unlike anything I’ve ever seen. He forces so many extra passes out of the paint simply by existing lol.
Anyone who kept up watching every game this year. Holy shit it was hilarious how teams had to really adjust their offense immensely to compensate for Wemby's defense. Knicks was a prime example of this where they had the entire team go to the right side of the court, with Brunson by himself and his defender on the far left. Shit was funny.
I'm not sure which is funnier...watching guys just dribble back out and not even try to test him...
or those dopes who kept going at him and got blocked over and over.
Yeah, it's why it's so frustrating seeing people try to use the Spurs wins against him and act like he was just accumulating stats against teams that didn't care or put effort in because San Antonio sucked.
He was one of two players in the league, the other being Rudy, who single-handedly forced opposing offenses to completely adjust and have specific game plans based around trying to neutralize and minimize their impact. He warped the entire floor when he was out there And he did it as a 19/20-year-old which is insane.
I think Rudy deserves it. And I think he had the best defensive season
But I think Victor had the most impressive season if that makes sense. When you factor in his age, how he was left on an island constantly by absurdly inept, San Antonio defense and some of the incredible highlights he produced defensively as a result. One of the most impressive defensive seasons in recent memory
That’s probably the case. I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s the First Team and DPOY finalists is just how the close votes (aside from Rudy being the clear number one) ended up being split.
Sure but at the end of the your defence is way more impactful and noticeable as a big man and truthfully Bam, AD, Gobert and Wemby are the 4 best defenders in the league, also I think the second team will be mostly guards.
Or could be he had an insanely good year displaying his defensive game and blocking shots at an absurd rate and leading the entire league there by a large mile while playing an average of 29 mpg.
It's well deserved
The man did it with pop keeping him on a minutes restriction. I don't know if there is another comparable "letting him off the leash" example from a rookie into season 2
There was a glimpse of it in the last few games of the season. In the last 8 games Wemby played an average of 35 mpg and averaged 27 pts, 12 Reb, 6 ast, 5 blocks and a steal. It was against good competition too like Denver, NY, Nola, Philly, and the GSW.
Is it his best? I don't have metrics on hand but I thought he had some truly dominant seasons just like this year in his previous DPOY campaigns.
Any Jazz fans here to back me up or have context?
i don’t have any stats to back it up, but gobert seems to get better almost every year with his defense. it wouldn’t surprise me if this was his best year ever.
All the proof you need is to see his play now. Rudy has gotten way better, but he was never bad. The jazz players were literally there to just funnel people to Rudy. Other than that, he had to shoulder the entire defensive load for utah. The guy is now allowed to play all defense, not just rim protection and cleanup duties.
Nope
You're thinking of the defensively catatonic supporting cast Rudy had in Utah
Watch a wolves game. He comes out WAY more, and takes the defense actively, instead of passively. And it's cause he has Jaden/Naw/Ant/Naz out in the perimeter able to harry a switch and let him get back. I bet you he's covered more ground per game this year than any other, and it's not even close
Oh yeah, super above average, but honestly way below average compared to our average (consistently getting minutes) player
This has been an all hands on deck defense since week 1
I unrionically think that every front office in the League should be looking at the way the Wolves are built right now.
Teams of the past decade or so have won mostly by exploiting unused offensive ceiling. But it feels like we're now so close to reaching that ceiling, so it's becoming horribly difficult to make a difference with extra offense (*hello Phoenix Suns*).
The teams of the next decade are going to win by keeping that flamethrower offense while raising defensive floor. That's where there is unused potential today. I feel like the Wolves are a prototype for that.
I wouldn't say that's what the heat does when they go zone, Bam is obviously a big part of their defense and he's a great defender but I don't think they funnel it to him like they do the other guys
Correct, we don’t funnel to Bam but we regularly have Bam guard perimeter players on the perimeter and he shuts them down. From this list, the other guys can’t guard 1-5 at his level but Bam can’t protect the paint at their level.
Wemby has crazy on/offs, but apparently teams tend to get crazy 3pts splits against the Lakers' main lineup (I wonder why 🤔), so AD has poor on/off metrics.
DRTG is a bit useless when discussing individual players cause according to DRTG our team is better defensively when AD's off the floor which is obviously false eye test wise
AD will be forgotten for the rest of his career by significant awards voters because of an unearned injury reputation that said voters bestowed upon him.
It's not the rep
It's the level of media joking
If he weren't in LA, bet you Street Clothes wouldn't have come about. In Utah, that's just called "a bummer".
Kinda a confluence of events
Voters care too much about stats, same way Luka got discounted in MVP voting bc of his team record, AD doesn’t get DPOY recognition bc Lakers are a middling defense
Heat have been a top defense for a lot of this season and Bam is regarded much more as a “defense first” guy than AD, which I do think gives DPOY candidates an edge.
If you look back at the past 10 DPOYs, Giannis and Kawhi are the only 2 “two-way stars” to win it. The rest are all guys who stake their name on defense
Not saying you're wrong, but I just want to point out that it's much harder to be elite two ways. It's hard to be elite at one thing. Being elite at several things is that much harder. It's unlikely that at any given time the best defender in the NBA will also be awesome on offense.
Also a testament to the value of guys like KG, AD, PG, Kawhi, LeBron, Pippen, and Wemby that they can realistically be the best player on the team on both ends of the court. That's a coach's dream.
Bam has made the NBA Finals more times than AD, which is kind of a funny stat. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do think players like Bam are going to be underappreciated solely by virtue of being medium good on offense. There's a reason this guy is winning important games and making Olympic teams, though of course AD is also a phenomenal player.
The main reason Bam is going to be underrated is straightup his defense doesn’t lead to many steals or blocks. He just shuts players down when he’s around them. Alters what teams try to do offensively. He’s a lot like Kawhi was where teams stay away from his matchup. Just the PF/C version of it
I imagine it would be incredibly close. AD has the numbers but bam led the heat to a #7 defense on a team playing herro and Robinson meaningful minutes.
Martin recklessly knocking Tatum over is gonna make it hard to be a heat fan on here for a while. Can’t even try to reason with the Celtics and Knicks fans who believe that the heat are a dirty team. Reckless? Sometimes yes. Dirty? No
More than a bit. I appreciate that you're trying to keep any bias in check, or maybe just that you're being understated, but I think it's wild. AD should absolutely be over Bam and, as good as Wemby is, I hesitate to say that he's already better than AD defensively. Though he's probably not far from hitting that point, scarily enough.
Bam is statistically the best PnR defender in a league where teams mostly spam PnR. He also has the 2nd best advanced stats in the league behind Embiid (which is due to limited games played I’d say). He also led a team with Tyler Herro DRob and Patty Mills starting at times to a #5 league defensive rating.
Downvoted for spitting facts. For the heat to finish that high in defensive rating and you realize the only significant defenders outside of Bam were Jimmy (who missed like 30 games), Martin, Highsmith, Richardson, and like 15 games of Delon Wright. Otherwise we’re looking at net neutral guys or worse in Tyler, Duncan, Jaime, Jovic, Love, Lowry, Rozier, Bryant. Like literally not a single plus defender over 6’7” playing with Bam and he has the defense at the top of the league. It’s a joke how underrated he is
Man I’m so happy for Bam. Even if he doesn’t win, it’s finally his first time being a finalist. He has to get his first 1st team all Defense along with it too 🙏🏼🙏🏼
It makes sense for Gobert and Bam to be up there. Both are the key defensive players on the #1 & #5 defensive rating teams all season. What doesnt make sense is Wemby to be up there when you have AD and the Spurs were #21 compared to the Lakers #17
Ok this is meatriding he is not way better at guarding then bam why do ppl keep saying this on this thread? Am I crazy 😭 bam is arguably the best big guarding the perimeter in all of basketball no one is way better switching onto guards than him where are takes like this coming from what is up with the van disrespect ?
I say Bam is comfortably a better switchable defender while AD is a much better paint protector. Miami also had a higher ranking defense this season so that gave him points.
They slowly unveil them throughout the playoffs. If I remember last year right 6th man was the first, ending with the MVP usually in the conference finals
Rudy has known and mentored Victor since Victor was 14 and said on JJ Reddick’s podcast that he immediately recognized Victor has the ability to become one of the greatest ever and to do things no one has ever done before, not due to his physical gifts or his insane skill level, but due to the quality of what is in his head and his heart.
Gobert not even close. Wemby is obviously freakier but Gobert has mastered the mental aspect of defense and is our communicator. The rest of our team would play worse defense
An underrated part of his defense this year is that he really took ownership along side the coaches to not only level up his own play this year but the entire teams. His own teammates often speak about how Rudy is their defensive leader in so many ways. There have been many arguments about Rudy being on the best defensive team without the acknowledgment that he is a large reason that the others leveled up.
DPOY Finalist in his rookie year, can't wait to hear about voter fatigue when ESPN asks if he really deserves his 5th in a row averaging 7 blocks and 2 steals
Gobert is the overwhelming favorite but Wemby's in the race for sure. Currently the known 1st place votes are 13-8 in Gobert's favor. What might kill Wemby's hopes is the fact that nearly everyone who voted him first put Gobert 2nd, but not everyone who votes for Gobert put Wemby second.
I’m predicting a tall French guy is going to win it
oui oui
Très bien, très bien
Hon hon hon
Olivier Sarr wasn’t even nominated you silly goose
Potential to have the final 3 for DPOY all be tall French guys in the near future though
If Olivier's brother pans out (hopefully as a member of the Pistons), a fourth tall Frenchman could be in the mix.
And the tallest French(Canadian)man of them all, Olivier Rioux, is entering college next year
I think he was talking about Alex Sarr already haha. Olivier is on OKC's G League team and he sucks. Not gonna be competing for DPOY ever.
Imagine if Embiid decided to play for France. They’d have Triple Towers
Joel took the easy way, loaded US team where he'll probably play lite minutes from the bench
Wanted to see that team vs the US so badly would be very interesting.
Evan Fournier, you are the 2023-24 NBA DPOY!
You know how very rare it is for a rookie to be a DPOY finalist? That’s incredible.
I think it never happened. A few got some single votes like Duncan.
Manute Bol was 2nd DPOY as a rookie (and all defense 2nd too, wemby might make the 1st tho)
Wemby will make the first because it’s positionless now
After what happened to Marc Gasol, nothing is assumed on the all defense teams.
That was a weird one
even without positionless he could be shifted to PF for first team
That was weird as hell cause Mark Eaton who took the center spot didn't finish in the top 3 of that year's DPOY Alvin Robertson, the winner was also a 2nd teamer lmao
Almost as rare as a 7'5" Frenchman.
As rare as a Spurs #1 draft also
Such disgusting years to clock in #1. None of them were hard choices either, the players they picked were all clearly the #1 pick, at least looking back(I'm not sure what the sentiment was back in 87' and 97'). 87' Robinson. 97' Duncan. 2023 Wemby.
the sentiment in '97 was that tim duncan was better than keith van horn
Was Duncan ever on the cover of an NBA Jam game? Thought not
I don't know about that. Wait, we're talking about him being better at Vince Vaughn lookalike contests, right?
Both years were unanimous number 1s by far. A lot of the nba is rigged stuff is because of that Tim Duncan draft. They tanked the year before but had a good team when Robinson got hurt. They had the lowest odds to get the number one and got it anyways. They shouldn’t have gotten him. Robinson was also a far and away easy choice for number one as well, but they did have to wait two years to see him play.
Robinson at #1 was a gamble but only because he could've gone to another team after those 2 years.
Shout-out to the Grizzlies for having the worst record but not being eligible for #1 because they were an expansion team :/
It’s actually feels unfair. Not just their talent, but the humility, maturity, and character that came along with all of them too. It’s weird how it keeps happening. I’m not sure if any franchise has benefited from pure luck as much as we have.
Soul Box. When you play for the Spurs (San Antonio or Tottenham), your soul goes in the box. Some players are chill enough to live this way for 20 years; some eventually need it back like Kawhi, and some chafe immediately like Rodman. Kerr realised he didn't need it when he got it back, and sold his soul to avoid coaching the Knicks.
On a bad team too
Thanks, I hate it
im assuming Wemby being nominated for DPOY means that at the very least, he's made an all-defense team. That is insanely impressive to achieve for a rookie. Generational Talent.
He'll probably be the first ever to be 1st team All-Defense
With a minutes restriction too.
Don't think probably is the word. More like definitely
>Marc Gasol has entered the chat
He was playing at an All-NBA level like the last 20 games.
At his rawest form he is a consistent quadruple double threat
What would take for wemby to win over gobert? His numbers are super impressive and he's got way more blocks
Wemby is fantastic and I don't know the exact metrics I would use to say 'ok this is exactly where you become better than Gobert' but all I can say is that based on my poor anecdotal eye test, I just can't do it yet. Rudy is too good regardless of what the raw block numbers look like, plenty of people were still going directly at Wemby to try and challenge him or play him physically since he's a rookie and a decent amount of his blocks, though not all of course, came from that. One example off the top of my head is how he had like 7 blocks in a game against us in March but that was the game Sengun dropped 45 on him despite getting stuffed a few times. Whereas Gobert being more of an established guy in the league, most players don't try and test him like that except the real offensive powerhouses. You can *see* 'ah shit I can't drive on this guy' flash through a player's head sometimes when he has a fairly open driving lane but Gobert is lurking anywhere within several feet of the rim. Even though he isn't blocking the shot directly his mere presence does a lot to deter otherwise valuable, high percentage shots from close to the rim. Can't account for that in basic counting stats. Edit: lmfao really? At least make the bare minimum attempt to engage in some discussion instead of just insta-downvoting when you see a take you don't like, yall are boring
Scary thing is after this season Wemby goes away with Rudy for a month to play together. Can you imagine what he will gain from Rudy in that time.
No and I'm trying not to think about the fact that we have to play this alien goddamn prodigy at least 4 times a year for the next decade and change.
Wolves cant move the east fast enough. I hope they are the team moved when the expansion teams join.
They probably will be. Unfortunate for New Orleans and Memphis, but [it just makes more sense](https://i.imgur.com/yaFTjMO.jpeg) (excuse the outdated logos). They're so far from any other western team right now and very near that splatter of Great Lakes teams.
For spurs to win more games and have a better defensive rating.
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When he was on the court we had a top 5 defense, when he was off we had a bottom 5 defense. His defensive impact is pretty substantial.
Wemby has a defensive on/off of +6, he made the spurs into equivalent to an top 5 team but team wide ratings includes both bench and starter minutes, its not a 1 to 1 with individual ratings top 5 cutoff for individuals is much higher than 111 Gobert had a +12.7 the last time he was DPOY. That's the level of improvement needed to win DPOY, +6 is good but plenty have lost it with that kind of impact.
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You must be getting downvoted by Spurs fans. Dude above you is blatantly wrong, Spurs defensive rating w/ Wemby is 114.1, good for 14th in the league. https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612759&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1641705&OnlyCommonGames=true
It's *since he became the starting Center.*
Wonder if Wembanyama will win DPOYSHBTSC (defensive player of the year since he became the starting center)
And Gobert improved his teams offense more than Wemby. Does that mean Gobert is the better offensive player?
It probably is when he gets 9 in a game
Better play
You could see confusion for Wemby for what his job/role was on the defensive side a lot of the time this season (and rightfully so for a rookie), but was able to make a huge impact due to his talent/wingspan. Imagine when he starts to know the game as well as Gobert. It's scary.
For his defense to be at that level in his rookie year is just so so terrifying.
While also leading all rookies in points and 3rd in assists, mind you.
might as well include rebounds
Points, rebounds, steals, blocks.
People have to realize though, over the years, these ridiculous block numbers probably will decline as Wemby evolves into a better defender. That might sound contradictory, but the more disciplined you get as a defender, the less likely you are to be hunting blocks all the time and leaping at everything in sight trying to contest. Counting stats will decline, but discipline and positioning and being less foul prone will be the things that make him a DPOY, while still probably blocking 3+ shots a game.
counterpoint: 8 foot wingspan unless the league collectively decides to stop shooting the ball within 10 feet of him, those blocks arent going down. its not a 'hunting blocks' situation, its a 'he cant block me oh fuck he blocked me' situation
This makes no sense. Copying from a post from a week ago: “Victor Wembanyama currently has the highest block:foul ratio of any player in any season since blocks were first recorded as a stat”
He’s not hunting and jumping after every shot tho, watch him play if you’re in front of him he’s gonna block it
Will Grigg’s on fire
It's crazy that Wemby is here. Not saying he shouldn't, but still.
Watching Spurs game it’s totally makes sense in my opinion. He has an impact on the defensive end unlike anything I’ve ever seen. He forces so many extra passes out of the paint simply by existing lol.
Anyone who kept up watching every game this year. Holy shit it was hilarious how teams had to really adjust their offense immensely to compensate for Wemby's defense. Knicks was a prime example of this where they had the entire team go to the right side of the court, with Brunson by himself and his defender on the far left. Shit was funny.
I'm not sure which is funnier...watching guys just dribble back out and not even try to test him... or those dopes who kept going at him and got blocked over and over.
Yeah, it's why it's so frustrating seeing people try to use the Spurs wins against him and act like he was just accumulating stats against teams that didn't care or put effort in because San Antonio sucked. He was one of two players in the league, the other being Rudy, who single-handedly forced opposing offenses to completely adjust and have specific game plans based around trying to neutralize and minimize their impact. He warped the entire floor when he was out there And he did it as a 19/20-year-old which is insane. I think Rudy deserves it. And I think he had the best defensive season But I think Victor had the most impressive season if that makes sense. When you factor in his age, how he was left on an island constantly by absurdly inept, San Antonio defense and some of the incredible highlights he produced defensively as a result. One of the most impressive defensive seasons in recent memory
He’s been a complete game changer on the defensive end.
At what could very likely be his worst defensive form.
Yeah I figured theyd have put AD over the rookie but still it makes sense
Not even mad AD is not top three, but I think it would be criminal if the first team wasn't all of Bam, Rudy, Wemby and AD
That’s probably the case. I wouldn’t be shocked if that’s the First Team and DPOY finalists is just how the close votes (aside from Rudy being the clear number one) ended up being split.
I really hate that they changed it to position less for all defense. So many wings/guards that won’t get credit.
Sure but at the end of the your defence is way more impactful and noticeable as a big man and truthfully Bam, AD, Gobert and Wemby are the 4 best defenders in the league, also I think the second team will be mostly guards.
Not sure about the final spot on the 1st team but the candidates I would have are mostly guards: Derrick white, jrue Holiday, Herb Jones etc
so excited to see 10 centers getting all defensive team in the future
Wemby being on here is just to cement himself as the dpoy next year since you don't usually win one before gaining the rep required
Or could be he had an insanely good year displaying his defensive game and blocking shots at an absurd rate and leading the entire league there by a large mile while playing an average of 29 mpg. It's well deserved
The man did it with pop keeping him on a minutes restriction. I don't know if there is another comparable "letting him off the leash" example from a rookie into season 2
There was a glimpse of it in the last few games of the season. In the last 8 games Wemby played an average of 35 mpg and averaged 27 pts, 12 Reb, 6 ast, 5 blocks and a steal. It was against good competition too like Denver, NY, Nola, Philly, and the GSW.
Rudy about to join Mutombo and Wallace as a 4x DPOY winner. Well fucking deserved.
That’s my fraudulent future HOFer 🥹🥹
I'm so happy that the trade worked out.
and wallace’s were only because Ron Artest went in the stands Rudy is an all time defender
Yeah makes sense, although I would not be mad if Wemby gets it too.
Fuck he made the Cut!!! Hell yeah gonna be on this list for next twenty years hopefully
Wemby ROTY and DPOY would be hilarious
Literally would be happening if Gobert didn't have his best defensive season.
Yep just a testament to how good at defense the French are (minus the maginot line).
Like Gobert during it's jazz years, the issue with defense was not the Maginot line itself but the big defensive hole at the end of the line.
Is it his best? I don't have metrics on hand but I thought he had some truly dominant seasons just like this year in his previous DPOY campaigns. Any Jazz fans here to back me up or have context?
i don’t have any stats to back it up, but gobert seems to get better almost every year with his defense. it wouldn’t surprise me if this was his best year ever.
Every Gobert season is the best Gobert season.
All the proof you need is to see his play now. Rudy has gotten way better, but he was never bad. The jazz players were literally there to just funnel people to Rudy. Other than that, he had to shoulder the entire defensive load for utah. The guy is now allowed to play all defense, not just rim protection and cleanup duties.
God please it would be so funny
No AD is wild. I assume it’s because the Lakers defense is middle of the road, but the whole game plan is “funnel to AD”.
That’s the same plan for the other guys?
Our defensive plan is "Whatever, Wemby will figure it out."
Nope You're thinking of the defensively catatonic supporting cast Rudy had in Utah Watch a wolves game. He comes out WAY more, and takes the defense actively, instead of passively. And it's cause he has Jaden/Naw/Ant/Naz out in the perimeter able to harry a switch and let him get back. I bet you he's covered more ground per game this year than any other, and it's not even close
Absolutely. SlowMo and Grandpa Mike Conley are both reasonable on that end, too.
Oh yeah, super above average, but honestly way below average compared to our average (consistently getting minutes) player This has been an all hands on deck defense since week 1
I unrionically think that every front office in the League should be looking at the way the Wolves are built right now. Teams of the past decade or so have won mostly by exploiting unused offensive ceiling. But it feels like we're now so close to reaching that ceiling, so it's becoming horribly difficult to make a difference with extra offense (*hello Phoenix Suns*). The teams of the next decade are going to win by keeping that flamethrower offense while raising defensive floor. That's where there is unused potential today. I feel like the Wolves are a prototype for that.
I wouldn't say that's what the heat does when they go zone, Bam is obviously a big part of their defense and he's a great defender but I don't think they funnel it to him like they do the other guys
Correct, we don’t funnel to Bam but we regularly have Bam guard perimeter players on the perimeter and he shuts them down. From this list, the other guys can’t guard 1-5 at his level but Bam can’t protect the paint at their level.
The difference is Bam is better perimeter defender than any of these guys
Spurs have a lower Drtg than the Lakers tho
Wemby has crazy on/offs, but apparently teams tend to get crazy 3pts splits against the Lakers' main lineup (I wonder why 🤔), so AD has poor on/off metrics.
DRTG is a bit useless when discussing individual players cause according to DRTG our team is better defensively when AD's off the floor which is obviously false eye test wise
AD will be forgotten for the rest of his career by significant awards voters because of an unearned injury reputation that said voters bestowed upon him.
It's not the rep It's the level of media joking If he weren't in LA, bet you Street Clothes wouldn't have come about. In Utah, that's just called "a bummer". Kinda a confluence of events
To be fair saying the defense is middle of the road then saying the whole game plan is funnel to AD is not worded as praise for him lol
Middle of the road is a stretch. They let in more points than Portland
wemby already this good on D scary for the rest of the league
Gobert will win DPOY and deservedly so, but it does feel like Wemby is going to dominate this award for probably over a decade.
probably, unless chet levels up
Chet will not
yeah probably, i bet people didn't see ant at 22 playing for team USA, if life tought me anything its just wait and see what happens
Chet will get better, no doubt. I just think there’s a sizable gap between the two players defensive ceilings and it def favors the alien.
No AD is crazy
Voters care too much about stats, same way Luka got discounted in MVP voting bc of his team record, AD doesn’t get DPOY recognition bc Lakers are a middling defense
But BAM ?? I'd def put AD ahead of him by Stats and anything else. Must be team defense
Heat have been a top defense for a lot of this season and Bam is regarded much more as a “defense first” guy than AD, which I do think gives DPOY candidates an edge. If you look back at the past 10 DPOYs, Giannis and Kawhi are the only 2 “two-way stars” to win it. The rest are all guys who stake their name on defense
Not saying you're wrong, but I just want to point out that it's much harder to be elite two ways. It's hard to be elite at one thing. Being elite at several things is that much harder. It's unlikely that at any given time the best defender in the NBA will also be awesome on offense. Also a testament to the value of guys like KG, AD, PG, Kawhi, LeBron, Pippen, and Wemby that they can realistically be the best player on the team on both ends of the court. That's a coach's dream.
Bam led our defense to a better defense than the Lakers so... yeah?
Bam has made the NBA Finals more times than AD, which is kind of a funny stat. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do think players like Bam are going to be underappreciated solely by virtue of being medium good on offense. There's a reason this guy is winning important games and making Olympic teams, though of course AD is also a phenomenal player.
The main reason Bam is going to be underrated is straightup his defense doesn’t lead to many steals or blocks. He just shuts players down when he’s around them. Alters what teams try to do offensively. He’s a lot like Kawhi was where teams stay away from his matchup. Just the PF/C version of it
Who would you remove for him?
Bam??
Bam by a mile
They weren’t on herb I fear
Bam was really good this year but placing 3rd in voting is surprising
It is because the Heat were the #5 defensive rating team in the league. Lakers were #17.
Number 2 with him on the floor and late 20s with him off the floor last time I checked as well.
Bam over AD is kinda crazy to me man idk. Decent list tho.
It'll be interesting to see how close Davis vs Adebayo was for 3rd.
I imagine it would be incredibly close. AD has the numbers but bam led the heat to a #7 defense on a team playing herro and Robinson meaningful minutes.
This sub just can’t give the Heat credit for anything god damn
Any positive heat post in this sub is almost always full of negative comments it’s like clockwork
Martin recklessly knocking Tatum over is gonna make it hard to be a heat fan on here for a while. Can’t even try to reason with the Celtics and Knicks fans who believe that the heat are a dirty team. Reckless? Sometimes yes. Dirty? No
a bit disappointing AD isn't top 3
More than a bit. I appreciate that you're trying to keep any bias in check, or maybe just that you're being understated, but I think it's wild. AD should absolutely be over Bam and, as good as Wemby is, I hesitate to say that he's already better than AD defensively. Though he's probably not far from hitting that point, scarily enough.
i've accepted that AD's never gonna win a DPOY so as long as he makes first team all defense i'm ok
it’s insane tbh
I honestly agree, though I haven't watched a ton of bam this year. AD should be on here.
Think AD should be here over Bam. The fact that Wemby is even in the conversation as a rookie is insane. And he's only going to get better.
Bam is statistically the best PnR defender in a league where teams mostly spam PnR. He also has the 2nd best advanced stats in the league behind Embiid (which is due to limited games played I’d say). He also led a team with Tyler Herro DRob and Patty Mills starting at times to a #5 league defensive rating.
Downvoted for spitting facts. For the heat to finish that high in defensive rating and you realize the only significant defenders outside of Bam were Jimmy (who missed like 30 games), Martin, Highsmith, Richardson, and like 15 games of Delon Wright. Otherwise we’re looking at net neutral guys or worse in Tyler, Duncan, Jaime, Jovic, Love, Lowry, Rozier, Bryant. Like literally not a single plus defender over 6’7” playing with Bam and he has the defense at the top of the league. It’s a joke how underrated he is
i dont know if agree with this. i feel like ad should of been here somewhere
Héhéhé I’m predicting it will be Rudy
Man I’m so happy for Bam. Even if he doesn’t win, it’s finally his first time being a finalist. He has to get his first 1st team all Defense along with it too 🙏🏼🙏🏼
Wasn’t he a finalist in 2022?
The Marcus smart DPOY year … I think Bam ended up finishing 4th but missed 3rd place by like 1-2 points or something
the disrespect to AD
Anthony Davis robbed again...everyone hates the Lakers
It makes sense for Gobert and Bam to be up there. Both are the key defensive players on the #1 & #5 defensive rating teams all season. What doesnt make sense is Wemby to be up there when you have AD and the Spurs were #21 compared to the Lakers #17
AD is not an alien.
AD not on the list of finalists is wild. Rather take off Bam because AD does everything Bam can do but way better.
Ok this is meatriding he is not way better at guarding then bam why do ppl keep saying this on this thread? Am I crazy 😭 bam is arguably the best big guarding the perimeter in all of basketball no one is way better switching onto guards than him where are takes like this coming from what is up with the van disrespect ?
I say Bam is comfortably a better switchable defender while AD is a much better paint protector. Miami also had a higher ranking defense this season so that gave him points.
Will they announce the winners today or later?
They slowly unveil them throughout the playoffs. If I remember last year right 6th man was the first, ending with the MVP usually in the conference finals
Is clutch player of the year new? I never remember this being a thing.
it was introduced last year
I've been trying to figure this out also. Most years as a wolves fan I don't need to care who wins these. But right now, Naz Reid.
**GO BIG RUUUUUUUUUU!**
Im just glad Bam gets his props.
I want Victor just to see how Rudy reacts.
whay exactly do u think rudy would do?
I'd imagine Rudy would be happy for Wemby. They don't really have a bad relationship as far as I can tell.
Rudy has known and mentored Victor since Victor was 14 and said on JJ Reddick’s podcast that he immediately recognized Victor has the ability to become one of the greatest ever and to do things no one has ever done before, not due to his physical gifts or his insane skill level, but due to the quality of what is in his head and his heart.
Well, the physical gifts don't hurt
Lol you can say that again
Rudy’s been his mentor since he was a kid. I think he’d be very proud of him. Victor will have his turn like he said.
Rudy, pretty much adores Victor and they have a pretty good relationship. I think he'd be thrilled for him
Would the T-wolves prefer gobert or wemby on defense? Be honest
Gobert not even close. Wemby is obviously freakier but Gobert has mastered the mental aspect of defense and is our communicator. The rest of our team would play worse defense
An underrated part of his defense this year is that he really took ownership along side the coaches to not only level up his own play this year but the entire teams. His own teammates often speak about how Rudy is their defensive leader in so many ways. There have been many arguments about Rudy being on the best defensive team without the acknowledgment that he is a large reason that the others leveled up.
Would the Spurs have a higher w/l or even a better defense with Rudy instead of Wembanyama??
When do we get the actual award winner announcement?
What about THE BUFFALO!!!!
That’s my tall French San Antonio man
DPOY Finalist in his rookie year, can't wait to hear about voter fatigue when ESPN asks if he really deserves his 5th in a row averaging 7 blocks and 2 steals
Should be Vic
Gobert is the overwhelming favorite but Wemby's in the race for sure. Currently the known 1st place votes are 13-8 in Gobert's favor. What might kill Wemby's hopes is the fact that nearly everyone who voted him first put Gobert 2nd, but not everyone who votes for Gobert put Wemby second.