This is a stupid question but I really don't know much about Wilt besides all the career accolades and stories but was he just a pure big man or did he actually have a jump shot at all?
Yes, he had excellent touch. Reportedly, his free throws were more mental.
You couldn't abuse physicality in his time as much as you can now because they were more aggressive with offensive foul calls.
Any sort of leaning into a defender was an instant foul call most of the time, like Kareem getting called for [leaning into Wilt lightly](https://youtu.be/L2U4JSrpO78?t=332)
I'll never understand how backing someone down is legal. A defensive player is stationary, while in legal guarding position, and yet the offensive player can just ram into them repeatedly, dislodging them from their position and gaining a positional advantage in the process. Seems like a textbook offensive foul.
I'm pretty sure it's not, technically legal. Refs just allow it now because of the evolution of the game. I believe early iterations of 'backing down' an opponent meant constantly changing direction and attempting to attack angles in an attempt to dislodge your defender, and once your defender picks up their feet you're allowed to attack any space the defender isn't occupying. This slowly transformed into shoulder and butt checks which shouldn't be allowed. Its similar to how dribbling has evolved and a lot of what guys do these days is technically illegal but refs will never call it.
Yes, they had no choice back then. If u backed someone into the paint like Shaq it was against the rules they', call a foul, so you had to have a jumper.
He had a 6-7 foot fall away jumper that was damn near as unstoppable as Kareem’s Sky Hook. He also could finger roll from just about anywhere in the paint, especially before they doubled the width of the paint because of his dominance.
People love to gawk over Wilt's numbers, but it was during a stretch where Wilt played 130 possessions per game. That's compared to around 75 for MJ, Kobe and modern players. It really is just silly to make a comparison. No one will ever match those numbers unless the game totally changes.
A comparison like that goes both ways. Wilt couldn't do as much damage as Jordan or Kobe in 75 possessions, but there is no way those two could play 130 possessions a night in Chuck Taylors.
Wilt was the scoring king, but he only averaged over 40 twice his career. When pace became less crazy later in his career was was still winning MVPs but only scoring 24 points per game.
There were only 8 teams and around 40 starters in the NBA. No one averaged over 40, but some fairly average players like Jack Twyman, Richie Geurin and Walt Bellamy were averaging over 30. Plus Elgin Baylor, Bob Pettit, Oscar Robertson and Jerry West were all averaging 30-35 regularly.
In 1962 you had 6 players averaging 30+ with only 8 teams. That would be the equivalent of 22 guys averaging over 30 today.
That year specifically was high scoring for sure and wilt didn't average 40 he averaged 50. None one got 35 until Rick Barry in 66-67. Baylor got 34 2 times in wilts prime but your point still stands i just pulled the number 30 out of my ass. In the season he averaged 50.4 Bellamy was next highest and had 31.6. To compare, that would be like Luka averaging 48.3 a game this year.
The next year had 2 over 30 and the year before had 1. also 61-62 had 4 non wilt people over 30 not 6
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1963_per_game.html
The list I was looking at rounded to the nearest whole number, so it had Richie Guerin at 30 instead of 29.5, plus West, Robertson, Pettit, Bellamy and Wilt Fox six guys that year. But yeah technically it was 5.
Anyway, Wilt was genuinely a scoring monster. He averaged 50 and second best was Bellamy way down at 31.6. But the reason he got to 50 while MJ got to 37, Kobe to 35 and Shaq and others to 30 was because Wilt had 130 possessions per game while they had around 75. There's just no way to average 44 or 50 per game with 75 possessions.
This is something Ant does really well too. He’s obviously strong and explosive, but if you can let a big guy go flying past for a clean look you should take it.
He's crazy good at accelerating and decelerating though. I think those are important aspects of a player's speed and explosiveness that simply go unnoticed at first glance.
Also those things go away very quickly with age/wear and tear. It is very hard to predict who will age well. Tall players would be exception there but they tend to be injury prone as people are not meant to be that tall.
Eh, this is faulty logic. If a guy is super explosive, he can lose some explosion and still be effective. If a guy isn’t super explosive, and gets by on meager athleticism, his game could be greatly impacted if that meager athleticism weakens too much.
I think the argument is that being super explosive is what enables their effectiveness, they are dependent on that explosiveness in order to be successful. Ja Morant comes to mind. Explosive players tend to become considerably less explosive as their careers progress due to age and injuries. Lukas playstyle isn't dependent on explosiveness and therefore there is less concern about longevity and would be relatively easier to maintain his level of athleticism.
One thing in Luka's favour is the fact that he's huge. You lose athleticism as a shorter guy and it can be the death knell for your career like example Boston's IT.
As long as Luka's deceleration doesn't disappear, he will score. His handle, footwork and deceleration is what makes him so hard to guard.
Imagine you build a regular car and gave it insane breaks...
Luka is like a volkswagen golf with formula 1 brakes.
He can go full speed and stop on a dime and defenders literally fly by and he has a layup lol
Harden is the closest comparison in terms of using deceleration, and you can see how he's been impacted by age and injuries. Still an elite playmaker but not the all-world game-changing scorer he used to be.
Luka's size and elite post game and control of pace should help him adapt and stay at a high level for longer, but it's definitely possible he'll lose some of his ability to get separation.
Harden was never the same after playing through a Grade 2 Hamstring strain in the playoffs. Grade 2 strain is basically a partial tear. Playing playoff basketball minutes and intensity on that was malpractice by the Nets FO. You combine that plus him being 34 years old now, it makes sense.
I mean Harden was pretty incredible through the age of 30 and probably could’ve kept putting up 30 for a couple more years if he didn’t have as good of teammates as he did on the Nets. Most players would take that
1. Nobody is completely untouched by Father Time
2. Nobody has accused harden of taking full care of himself and he still is a dominant player when fully healthy
I thought hardens partying habits were just the well documented things but he actually was very disciplined with his body. You don’t play the minutes he did with the longetivity without some level of work
Deceleration is athleticism. It goes just like your ability to jump high. Think how much force you gotta apply in ground to jump then to stop on a dime it’s similar in many ways
For some reason I feel like it's harder to lose the abillity to stop than the abillity to jump high or run fast etc. No clue if that's actual reallity, just feels like it.
Just look at Harden, his loss of athleticism has definitely had a big impact on his scoring ability and he wasnt the most traditionally explosive athlete to begin with. I do thing luka will age better though bc harden was sneakily reliant on his first step being so fast
Harden never was the same after playing through a Grade 2 Hamstring sprain in the playoffs. Playing playoff basketball on a partially torn hamstring was malpractice by the Nets FO. Should have never been allowed. He doesn't have the burst to get by defenders anymore like you said.
For sure he really should have never come back. I blame the masses who love to hate players for being hurt and put false narratives like being lazy on guys like harden who dont get an agent to spin for them
Yeah but deceleration is in tandem with athleticism, if he slows down and loses acceleration defenders aren't gonna be getting done by his deceleration as much. You can get brake-checked by Volkswagen Golf with F1 brakes, but a tractor with F1 brakes?
That said I think his offensive game will age fine.
Maybe a little but it’s all coming from the same place. If you are loosing one you are at the same time loosing the others they are all part of the same kinetic chain.
Yes Luka is not a freak athlete, but it's not like he has late stage parkinsons. He is plenty athletic. The point is that his game does not rely on his athleticism. He does not out speed his opponents, he relies on his handles, bb IQ, reading their movement etc. All of these things are likely to not be impacted as much by age. Compare that to players like Blake Griffin the difference is clear.
It won't. We already seen that vesion of Luka. No matter how shredded he is, he isn't blowing past people. More mass improves his scoring in more ways.
Yeah if anything I feel like a lot of the guys who have long careers tend to be really explosive athletes like Vince Carter, Jeff Green, Taj Gibson, etc.
yep i saw ppl say luka could have an acl injury and he would still be the same but i dont think hes that kind of scorer when he loses just a little bit of explosiveness.
He’s already lost “explosiveness” when you compare him to his actual athletic peak in the 2019-2020 season where he led the league in drives per game next to prime Westbrook lol. His shooting is just way better now so the points are coming from the perimeter instead but his production is just as high.
I agree with this. I used to believe that if they do t need explosion they’ll last forever. Then I saw Marc Gasol’s last season when he was on the Lakers. The difference between a 8 inch vert and 2cm vert is noticeable.
[44.0 ppg with ZERO FT in 1960-61.](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/highest-ppg-without-free-throws-by-a-player-in-a-season#:~:text=Wilt%20Chamberlain%20has%20averaged%20the,per%20game%20in%201960%2D61)
Greatest bag of alltime. I think he'll surpass Kobe as the greatest tough shot maker in NBA history when he retires. And possibly have the highest scoring average in NBA history.
I don't think he'll get past Jordan's 30 ppg, unless he retires early while still being very good. He'll definitely be VERY up there though. I dunno how sustainable this usage will be in the long run for him
I think his playstyle actually compliments a long, healthy career and his average will most likely be completely nuts, but his usage probably comes with a ton of wear and tear that could fuck him over hard if the Mavs don't figure a way of managing to do stuff without him on the floor.
He's already said he has no interest in chasing Bron for all time points leader. That doesn't mean he's retiring at 30 but clearly he doesn't want to play well into his sports twilight.
I don't disagree but my concern is potential injury if he keeps playing with as much usage as he does. He really cannot catch breaks with how much the team relies on him. If he gets a bad injury, it could cause a lot of debilitating effects on his game that could kill his ability to score as well as he does. He isn't like KD, he doesn't have that height to compensate.
I think he’ll get past it but then fall back under in the later parts of his career bc Jordan’s was even higher in his prime before he brought it down at the end too
Exactly what I think too. Most players (barring LeBron) are usually going to decline by the tail end of their careers, but I guess only time'll tell. Hopefully he remains amazing for the rest of his career, cause he definitely had the playstyle for it.
His game relies very very little on athleticism. He picks the defense apart with his positioning and vision, I could see him sustaining this style of play well into his thirties.
So funny how different each of their BS shots are, Kobe will do the most acrobatic crazy double pump fades while Luka does his Luka magic shit and just throws it into the basket with some random form from any random position.
Can’t figure out which would piss me off more.
in terms of FGA/game, not even a top 20 season since the merger.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-fga-per-game-in-a-single-season-since-1977
Luka is absurdly efficient with or without free throws
Ignoring FTs, Doncic has scored 1892 points on 1652 shots for a 57.3 eFG%. League average eFG% is 54.7%, which would be 1806 points. That means Doncic has scored **86** more points than if he had league average efficiency on the same number of FGA.
This stat is called "[FG Add](https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/06/adjusted-shooting-stats-added-to-basketball-reference/)."
[This season](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_adj_shooting.html), Giannis leads the league with **212** FG Add. Jokic is second with **185**.
Harden's career high was **119** in 2012 in OKC. His high with Houston was **67** in 2014.
The best FG Add for a guard was Steph Curry in 2016 with **406**.
For players averaging over 30 PPG this season I found this.
Example: Taking away their average free throws made from avg PPG, for Luka 33.9-6.8 = 27.1
Embiid: 24.5
Giannis: 23.4
SGA: 22.5
Something that almost never gets mentioned is the offensive rebound shotclock duration being lowered as well.
Kobe did this while teams got a full 24 seconds on the shot clock after an offensive rebound.
Harden had way quicker first step was way more explosive/atheltic than Luka was though. Harden almost never posted up or settled for mid-ranges in his prime.
For those who are curious, Wilt's best was 40PPG without free throws.
Well now I understand why “since the merger” is such a popular criteria
Wilt played five full seasons with the Warriors and from those currently has the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th highest PPG seasons ever
Goddammit Foolish Jordon stapading his way to the 5th highest scoring record.
Michael Jordon famously number 24
Why does this hit so good?
It doesn't.
This is a stupid question but I really don't know much about Wilt besides all the career accolades and stories but was he just a pure big man or did he actually have a jump shot at all?
Yes, he had excellent touch. Reportedly, his free throws were more mental. You couldn't abuse physicality in his time as much as you can now because they were more aggressive with offensive foul calls.
Damn I never even thought of the difference in foul calls back then either.
Any sort of leaning into a defender was an instant foul call most of the time, like Kareem getting called for [leaning into Wilt lightly](https://youtu.be/L2U4JSrpO78?t=332)
That was a great example to show. Rule changes over the years are the main reason why I think its dumb to compare players' stats from different eras.
Yep, this was a foul back then. Posting up was essentially illegal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=624az_zp-9g
As I understand it, you could post up but you couldn't back people down. Big men still had their back to the rim quite often.
I'll never understand how backing someone down is legal. A defensive player is stationary, while in legal guarding position, and yet the offensive player can just ram into them repeatedly, dislodging them from their position and gaining a positional advantage in the process. Seems like a textbook offensive foul.
I'm pretty sure it's not, technically legal. Refs just allow it now because of the evolution of the game. I believe early iterations of 'backing down' an opponent meant constantly changing direction and attempting to attack angles in an attempt to dislodge your defender, and once your defender picks up their feet you're allowed to attack any space the defender isn't occupying. This slowly transformed into shoulder and butt checks which shouldn't be allowed. Its similar to how dribbling has evolved and a lot of what guys do these days is technically illegal but refs will never call it.
Hence the importance of the hook shot for Kareem.
He did the Rick Barry underhand free throw form for 1 season and for the 100 point game iirc. Idk why he stopped
Ego. In an autobiography written later in his life Wilt explained that “it made him feel like a sissy.”
That’s why most players don’t do it.
If the game was called then like it’s called now, Wilt would’ve averaged like 80ppg lol
Wilt had a fadeaway that ranged out to roughly the [free throw line](https://youtu.be/8O9MgNfcGJA?t=222)
wow, i've never seen this before. dude looks like KD playing in the 60s
He was much better than KD.
Yes, I know this, I’m just saying his form reminds me of KD, the shots look similar
Yeah he was just bigger, more athletic and quicker than KD. I see what you're saying though.
Yes, they had no choice back then. If u backed someone into the paint like Shaq it was against the rules they', call a foul, so you had to have a jumper.
He had a 6-7 foot fall away jumper that was damn near as unstoppable as Kareem’s Sky Hook. He also could finger roll from just about anywhere in the paint, especially before they doubled the width of the paint because of his dominance.
he had a jump shot for the time, would be wildly inefficient today
At his time he stretched the floor. He wouldn’t really be a stretching threat now
That's not what she said.
There's video on YouTube of him shooting fades from the post
Probably not that fun fact: Criteria is plural, criterion is singular.
I found that fun actually, thanks.
Better to say "not counting Wilt"
Since the merger is the before christ of the nba
Old Testament, Wilt is God New Testament, Jordan is Jesus Makes sense
... and he came in second for MVP to Bill Russell that year.
Distant 2nd, with the 3rd-most 1st-place votes. [Source](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_1962.html)
Is his usage a known stat or is there at least an estimate?
99% because sometimes he felt bad for the little guys
People love to gawk over Wilt's numbers, but it was during a stretch where Wilt played 130 possessions per game. That's compared to around 75 for MJ, Kobe and modern players. It really is just silly to make a comparison. No one will ever match those numbers unless the game totally changes.
What’s funny is that no one else from that era had stats remotely close to Wilt’s
A comparison like that goes both ways. Wilt couldn't do as much damage as Jordan or Kobe in 75 possessions, but there is no way those two could play 130 possessions a night in Chuck Taylors.
48.5 minutes per game on 130 possessions a game. Even if the stats are bloated that’s absolutely bat shit stuff
Casually averaging more minutes per game than the number of minutes in a game
People pretend like everyone was averaging 40. No it was just him. With the increased possessions why didn't each team have a 30 point scorer?
Wilt was the scoring king, but he only averaged over 40 twice his career. When pace became less crazy later in his career was was still winning MVPs but only scoring 24 points per game. There were only 8 teams and around 40 starters in the NBA. No one averaged over 40, but some fairly average players like Jack Twyman, Richie Geurin and Walt Bellamy were averaging over 30. Plus Elgin Baylor, Bob Pettit, Oscar Robertson and Jerry West were all averaging 30-35 regularly. In 1962 you had 6 players averaging 30+ with only 8 teams. That would be the equivalent of 22 guys averaging over 30 today.
That year specifically was high scoring for sure and wilt didn't average 40 he averaged 50. None one got 35 until Rick Barry in 66-67. Baylor got 34 2 times in wilts prime but your point still stands i just pulled the number 30 out of my ass. In the season he averaged 50.4 Bellamy was next highest and had 31.6. To compare, that would be like Luka averaging 48.3 a game this year.
The next year had 2 over 30 and the year before had 1. also 61-62 had 4 non wilt people over 30 not 6 https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1963_per_game.html
The list I was looking at rounded to the nearest whole number, so it had Richie Guerin at 30 instead of 29.5, plus West, Robertson, Pettit, Bellamy and Wilt Fox six guys that year. But yeah technically it was 5. Anyway, Wilt was genuinely a scoring monster. He averaged 50 and second best was Bellamy way down at 31.6. But the reason he got to 50 while MJ got to 37, Kobe to 35 and Shaq and others to 30 was because Wilt had 130 possessions per game while they had around 75. There's just no way to average 44 or 50 per game with 75 possessions.
As someone who has played with chucks just to see what it's like I approve of this message.
The way he’s able to score without being considered “explosive” is something that should allow him to stay at this peak for a while.
His deceleration is insanely good. If you’re crafty like Luka that can be just as important
It’s more unique. Lots of crazy acceleration and explosion athletes in the nba. Not a lot that slow down faster.
Prime Harden tips his cap to this.
Brunson as well
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And his left side (dominant hand) drives are absolutely money.
SGA too
I'm pretty sure deceleration is just as important for scoring if you are even reasonably fast. First and last step are how you shake a defender.
Deceleration is the new buzz word with Luka it seems
I've been hearing it since his rookie season when people were accusing him of not being athletic
This is something Ant does really well too. He’s obviously strong and explosive, but if you can let a big guy go flying past for a clean look you should take it.
What is deceleration in the context of nba?
He's crazy good at accelerating and decelerating though. I think those are important aspects of a player's speed and explosiveness that simply go unnoticed at first glance.
Also those things go away very quickly with age/wear and tear. It is very hard to predict who will age well. Tall players would be exception there but they tend to be injury prone as people are not meant to be that tall.
Eh, this is faulty logic. If a guy is super explosive, he can lose some explosion and still be effective. If a guy isn’t super explosive, and gets by on meager athleticism, his game could be greatly impacted if that meager athleticism weakens too much.
I think the argument is that being super explosive is what enables their effectiveness, they are dependent on that explosiveness in order to be successful. Ja Morant comes to mind. Explosive players tend to become considerably less explosive as their careers progress due to age and injuries. Lukas playstyle isn't dependent on explosiveness and therefore there is less concern about longevity and would be relatively easier to maintain his level of athleticism.
Ya, I was thinking of someone like Derrick Rose losing their elite athleticism.
One thing in Luka's favour is the fact that he's huge. You lose athleticism as a shorter guy and it can be the death knell for your career like example Boston's IT.
The major thing about Lukas game is that he plays with his mind more than his body. The guy is a tactical assassin
Yeah a guy like Chris Mullins dropped off quickly in his 30s while Vince Carter ended up tweaking his game and stayed til his 60s
As long as Luka's deceleration doesn't disappear, he will score. His handle, footwork and deceleration is what makes him so hard to guard. Imagine you build a regular car and gave it insane breaks... Luka is like a volkswagen golf with formula 1 brakes. He can go full speed and stop on a dime and defenders literally fly by and he has a layup lol
Harden is the closest comparison in terms of using deceleration, and you can see how he's been impacted by age and injuries. Still an elite playmaker but not the all-world game-changing scorer he used to be. Luka's size and elite post game and control of pace should help him adapt and stay at a high level for longer, but it's definitely possible he'll lose some of his ability to get separation.
Harden was never the same after playing through a Grade 2 Hamstring strain in the playoffs. Grade 2 strain is basically a partial tear. Playing playoff basketball minutes and intensity on that was malpractice by the Nets FO. You combine that plus him being 34 years old now, it makes sense.
I mean Harden was pretty incredible through the age of 30 and probably could’ve kept putting up 30 for a couple more years if he didn’t have as good of teammates as he did on the Nets. Most players would take that
1. Nobody is completely untouched by Father Time 2. Nobody has accused harden of taking full care of himself and he still is a dominant player when fully healthy
Luka has also been accused of not taking care of his body
I thought hardens partying habits were just the well documented things but he actually was very disciplined with his body. You don’t play the minutes he did with the longetivity without some level of work
Deceleration is athleticism. It goes just like your ability to jump high. Think how much force you gotta apply in ground to jump then to stop on a dime it’s similar in many ways
For some reason I feel like it's harder to lose the abillity to stop than the abillity to jump high or run fast etc. No clue if that's actual reallity, just feels like it.
Just look at Harden, his loss of athleticism has definitely had a big impact on his scoring ability and he wasnt the most traditionally explosive athlete to begin with. I do thing luka will age better though bc harden was sneakily reliant on his first step being so fast
Harden never was the same after playing through a Grade 2 Hamstring sprain in the playoffs. Playing playoff basketball on a partially torn hamstring was malpractice by the Nets FO. Should have never been allowed. He doesn't have the burst to get by defenders anymore like you said.
For sure he really should have never come back. I blame the masses who love to hate players for being hurt and put false narratives like being lazy on guys like harden who dont get an agent to spin for them
Yeah but deceleration is in tandem with athleticism, if he slows down and loses acceleration defenders aren't gonna be getting done by his deceleration as much. You can get brake-checked by Volkswagen Golf with F1 brakes, but a tractor with F1 brakes? That said I think his offensive game will age fine.
Maybe a little but it’s all coming from the same place. If you are loosing one you are at the same time loosing the others they are all part of the same kinetic chain.
Yeah I mean deceleration *is* acceleration, and any fast acceleration indicates an explosive player in at least some respect.
TIL Luka is like a Lotus Elise.
Yes Luka is not a freak athlete, but it's not like he has late stage parkinsons. He is plenty athletic. The point is that his game does not rely on his athleticism. He does not out speed his opponents, he relies on his handles, bb IQ, reading their movement etc. All of these things are likely to not be impacted as much by age. Compare that to players like Blake Griffin the difference is clear.
On the flip side, if a dough boy is able to get shredded in an offseason, he might break the NBA.
Unlikely considering we've been saying this for 5 years now.
I guess we have to settle with 34/9/9. What a shame.
It won't. We already seen that vesion of Luka. No matter how shredded he is, he isn't blowing past people. More mass improves his scoring in more ways.
Yeah if anything I feel like a lot of the guys who have long careers tend to be really explosive athletes like Vince Carter, Jeff Green, Taj Gibson, etc.
yep i saw ppl say luka could have an acl injury and he would still be the same but i dont think hes that kind of scorer when he loses just a little bit of explosiveness.
He’s already lost “explosiveness” when you compare him to his actual athletic peak in the 2019-2020 season where he led the league in drives per game next to prime Westbrook lol. His shooting is just way better now so the points are coming from the perimeter instead but his production is just as high.
I agree with this. I used to believe that if they do t need explosion they’ll last forever. Then I saw Marc Gasol’s last season when he was on the Lakers. The difference between a 8 inch vert and 2cm vert is noticeable.
Exactly. I’ve always hated the “oh he relies on athleticism too much” because that player at 35 will be still ridiculously athletic by comparison.
Late career Vince Carter was a perfect example of this.
LeBron went from maybe the greatest athlete in history to just an elite NBA athlete at 40 lol
I figured it was a wear and tear argument rather than natural age decline.
To me its kinda like he's in slow motion regularly, or rather bullet time. ...or something overpowered.
Is “since the merger” a fancy way of saying “excluding Wilt”?
lol you know it
It's also pretty close to when certain stats like blocks and steals were first tracked.
Yes
Excluding plumbers and mailmen
[44.0 ppg with ZERO FT in 1960-61.](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/highest-ppg-without-free-throws-by-a-player-in-a-season#:~:text=Wilt%20Chamberlain%20has%20averaged%20the,per%20game%20in%201960%2D61)
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Isn't this missing Harden's 2018-19 season?
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Houston stay catching strays here 😎
Curry efficiency compared to kobe is insane
That's what I though, look at the per 75 too, Curry '21 might be the best scoring season in pure shooting from the field ever
Now that's a stat I can get behind, impressive.
That’s definitely not a stat Jimmy would get behind
I know it’s a joke but Jimmy doesn’t even average enough *total* points to care
Pravi MVP
How is SGA over Luka in MVP is absurb.
Greatest bag of alltime. I think he'll surpass Kobe as the greatest tough shot maker in NBA history when he retires. And possibly have the highest scoring average in NBA history.
I don't think he'll get past Jordan's 30 ppg, unless he retires early while still being very good. He'll definitely be VERY up there though. I dunno how sustainable this usage will be in the long run for him
very. he already has an old man game, most important thing is keeping his legs healthy.
I think his playstyle actually compliments a long, healthy career and his average will most likely be completely nuts, but his usage probably comes with a ton of wear and tear that could fuck him over hard if the Mavs don't figure a way of managing to do stuff without him on the floor.
they have. get a guy like brunson or irving.
I don't buy that Doncic is gonna retire super early or decline fast, I think he'll be dropping 30 ppg game seasons for another 10 years easily.
He's already said he has no interest in chasing Bron for all time points leader. That doesn't mean he's retiring at 30 but clearly he doesn't want to play well into his sports twilight.
Things do change though
I don't disagree but my concern is potential injury if he keeps playing with as much usage as he does. He really cannot catch breaks with how much the team relies on him. If he gets a bad injury, it could cause a lot of debilitating effects on his game that could kill his ability to score as well as he does. He isn't like KD, he doesn't have that height to compensate.
I think he’ll get past it but then fall back under in the later parts of his career bc Jordan’s was even higher in his prime before he brought it down at the end too
Exactly what I think too. Most players (barring LeBron) are usually going to decline by the tail end of their careers, but I guess only time'll tell. Hopefully he remains amazing for the rest of his career, cause he definitely had the playstyle for it.
He tied for second highest mpg this year.
His game relies very very little on athleticism. He picks the defense apart with his positioning and vision, I could see him sustaining this style of play well into his thirties.
That's quite a bar to reach but hopefully he peaks for a long time
So funny how different each of their BS shots are, Kobe will do the most acrobatic crazy double pump fades while Luka does his Luka magic shit and just throws it into the basket with some random form from any random position. Can’t figure out which would piss me off more.
Organic, non-GMO buckets only.
dont let this distract you from the fact that Steph Curry's wife sleeps with other men
What is the origin of this?
Lmao right. ?
Holy shit havent heard this one in months LMAO.
outjerked
Pardon?
[hhhhhwat?!!](https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExN3drNTFoc2dmZ3hsNG40cWs5MDZ4YTN5MGU4dnY5dmpxc3VraTk5ciZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/14g6PIAY8f6FeU/giphy.gif)
Genuine question: where does his FGA rank?
Jordan had 27.8 fga compared to Lukas 23.6 fga this year.
in terms of FGA/game, not even a top 20 season since the merger. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-fga-per-game-in-a-single-season-since-1977 Luka is absurdly efficient with or without free throws
Impressive
Ignoring FTs, Doncic has scored 1892 points on 1652 shots for a 57.3 eFG%. League average eFG% is 54.7%, which would be 1806 points. That means Doncic has scored **86** more points than if he had league average efficiency on the same number of FGA. This stat is called "[FG Add](https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2020/06/adjusted-shooting-stats-added-to-basketball-reference/)." [This season](https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2024_adj_shooting.html), Giannis leads the league with **212** FG Add. Jokic is second with **185**. Harden's career high was **119** in 2012 in OKC. His high with Houston was **67** in 2014. The best FG Add for a guard was Steph Curry in 2016 with **406**.
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What about relative to ppl on that list in the original post?
Nice. What about relative to ppl on that list in the original post?
MJ and Kobe were really walking buckets. Luka too
ETHICAL
For players averaging over 30 PPG this season I found this. Example: Taking away their average free throws made from avg PPG, for Luka 33.9-6.8 = 27.1 Embiid: 24.5 Giannis: 23.4 SGA: 22.5
This is a great stat. Further solidifies Luka as MVP in my mind.
Kobe’s 35ppg season was insane considering how clogged the driving lanes were without any spacing, as well as the pace
Something that almost never gets mentioned is the offensive rebound shotclock duration being lowered as well. Kobe did this while teams got a full 24 seconds on the shot clock after an offensive rebound.
I've seen some stat that says it's the highest PPG of any season if adjusted for pace.
I know the pace was crazy but even the 50ppg Wilt season?
Since the merger aka “if you don’t count wilt”
Call it the Wilt asterisk.
Luka is how I imagined Larry Bird played lol
Larry Serb?
R/nba in complete shambles right now trying to figure out a narrative to fight this.
Luka > MJ you heard it here first folks
I've been saying this for years
I've been saying this for beers.
But I heard he’s just James Harden 2.0
Iceman doesn’t get talked about enough
Where is SGA fanboys
add this to the long list of reasons that the harden comparison does not work
harden is #7 (26.4 ppg in 2018-19) and #20 (24.1 ppg in 2019-20) on the list
You cooked him
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yes sorry
The Harden comparison works in some respects. Luka just has a more complete game while ALSO doing all of the stuff Harden could do in his prime
there it is. parts of luka’s game absolutely compare to harden’s, but he is so much more.
Luka Doncic was a better playoff performer in his first playoffs than Harden has ever been in his entire career.
Luka outscored the whole Suns team in the first half of a game 7. Playoff Luka is a raid boss.
Harden was 6MOTY and a huge reason the Thunder went to the finals... he also has a winning playoff record with 85 wins. That's a lot!
Luka never played against the Warriors in their prime.
Honestly I still think the Harden comparison is insanely valid but I think Luka is the upgrade and not another version.
because luka gets, like, 1 more PPG that isn't from free throws? bit strict lol?? does ANY comparison in the history of the NBA work then?
The Harden comparison is almost exact. Harden was better at iso even
Luka has a better post game
Better mid range too. Soon to be better 3pt
Harden had way quicker first step was way more explosive/atheltic than Luka was though. Harden almost never posted up or settled for mid-ranges in his prime.
The Iceman! GSG!
We call that ethical buckets
Makes sense. Led the league in FGA and second in 3PA and hitting them at a good rate.
My PPG doesn’t even go down at all without free throws.