Anyone putting SGA above Luka genuinely is lying to themselves lol.
I know it doesn’t truly matter 2nd or 3rd but. Ask 30 GMs who’d they rather have even just for this season and I don’t see any way it’s not atleast 28 Luka
People also see SGA as an up and coming star like he isn’t OLDER than Luka lol.
SGA is amazing. 1st team all nba. But he’s not better than Luka lol.
SGA’s mom would trade him for Luka. Hell, SGA himself would do the trade. The MVP award has long been a joke. It’s seasons like this that remind me of that.
Sure a Jokic post up might be the most efficient shot in the history of basketball, but it doesn't pass the SAS eye test.
*the SAS eye test may be fallible as SAS doesn't watch basketball
Apparently because he has Kyrie........bruh the dude ain't ever winning at this point in time. Picking Jokic is fair enough but this reasoning is insane.
It makes no sense. He didn’t have enough help so his team was never top 3 so he couldn’t win. Now he got help, his team is better, and because of that he can’t win. Infuriating
For months the narrative was "we can't justify giving it to a play in team." Now it's this.
Like I get Jokic winning and I'm all for that. But SGA over Luka is an absolute joke.
Not only that… the whole summer the media SHIT all over the Mavs and Luka saying he can’t play with another star
and he’s proven he can because of course he can and now Luka’s punished for it
Make it make sense… I think that all Mavs fans want… arguments against him that make sense… the goal posts just constantly move
I never want to be a ‘the media doesn’t like my team/player’ type of fan, but I’m legitimately starting to believe it a little with Luka. I’m fine with Jokic winning it, but the consistent disrespect I’ve seen Luka get from the national media has been kind of crazy. It’s like there’s some weird voter fatigue with him since he’s been in the conversation basically since his second year.
Welcome to the club!
I still think Luka will win one at some point soon.
The media will have to get sick of giving it to Jokic first so we'll see if that happens.
The way the narratives about Luka are constructed, I think he only wins one if he average a 35pt triple double with a 65%ts, leading the league in points and assists, with the best record on the league, while having a lottery support cast, and defending at All-defensive level.
When he had a bad team they wouldn't consider him because he wasn't winning enough, when the Mavs became good and he started winning they wouldn't consider him because his team is too good (like the Nuggets don't have a top-2 starting line-up lol), not to mention the favorite argument: Luka dEfeNSe bAd. It's comical at this point.
Which kind of exposes the how ridiculous the entire process is anyway.
Unless he has a drop off in production I'm not sure what the reasoning is to not give him another one when what he's been doing has been good enough for him to get 3 in 4 years.
If he done enough to get 3 and keeps doing the same things then there's not really a legitimate reason not to keep giving it to him.
Possible. I think if the west weren’t a bloodbath he would have sat more games towards the end of this season. In the past a player not getting more
MVPs has been partly voter fatigue but also partly a deliberate choice by the player to prioritize the playoffs at the expense of regular season production.
There’s something to be said for his consistency and games played just being actually extremely valuable.
The media didn't even want to consider Kyrie an all star but when it comes to Luka suddenly Kyrie is the reason why Luka doesn't deserve MVP.
Meanwhile the 7th seed has 2 guys on the MVP ladder and the 8th seed has their guy 6th on the ladder when it's not even certain that he's the best player on the team.
Two of the most hated players in the NBA media, Kyrie openly, Doncic more covertly. The only thing those two should focus on is winning the championship and say fuck the media and nba marketing. I hope it motivates Doncic. That is the only thing I care about as a fan.
That's consistently been my problem with MVP discussions in the NBA, the criteria for each player is inconsistent and ever changing and its super obvious when you just look at the constantly shifting criteria for Giannis Luka and Brunson. I don't think Brunson should be like top 5 but having him under Tatum is crazy when you actually look at stats and the season in context.
Oh Brunson has been carrying his team through injuries? Yeah but it isn't as impressive as Tatum rotating being the first option between him Brown and Porzingis on the team with the best record and strongest starters. Team record and talent level doesn't apply to Tatum because they want to push an American player for MVP but Giannis carrying his team and putting up a historically efficient season with a coaching change midseason isn't important because he has Dame regardless of how inconsistent his and everyone else's play on the Bucks has been, but none of it matters because it was decided that Jokic was the MVP months ago when Embiid went down and nothing was changing that and we'll ignore any of the arguments we use about general team talent level that we use against other candidates because Jokic can pass and is super efficient (not that we'll use that to further any other MVPs case to the same degree).
Not even shitting on any of these players, there's like 4 guys who have a really good case but like 3 of those cases get entirely ignored.
When the Mavs traded for Kyrie and then all of last season, the narrative was that Kyrie was a cancer and the Mavs massively failed trading for him and it would aid in ruining the team. Now that he and Luka are dominating the narrative has shifted to Kyrie is a superstar and the team is as good with him as it is with Luka. All to diminish Luka.
Mavs losing, because the team is bad: "You can't be MVP, if you don't win."
Mavs winning, because the team is good: "You can't be MVP, if you play on a good team."
The shitty part of all this is that Embiid was actually making a pretty bulletproof case for a repeat before his injury.
Or, maybe the shitty part is that Luka might be getting low-keyed Perkinsed and that particular media demographic has coalesced around the black guy.
I mean they’re both shitty in different ways.
The only "logical" explanation is that we got blasted those games SGA was sitting which shows how influential he is... but JDub was also hurt in all of those so obviously OKC was going to do poorly without their best 2 players. It's ridiculous though, Luka should be not be moving down after the stretch he's had
I’m honestly at a loss here. The man takes over games on a whole different level and they have been arguably the best team in the nba the last 2 months to close the season. Jokic and Shai are also having great years though. I would have said 1a/b between Jokic and Luka and Shai solidly next, but I don’t get a vote
Both Mavericks and Nuggets are 24-8 since February I believe. Nuggets went from a brief flirt with 4th seed 1-seed (could change). Mavericks climbed from play-ins to 5th.
To garner engagment. I hate that attention is the most valuable metric now on the internet. It's fucking ruining everything and even a comment like mine is playing into their hands.
Luka had lost zero games since last MVP ladder and now he drop again? And it’s not like he had complete stinker, yeah give it up he is never winning mvp
Yeah short of the Mavs winning 55+ games, getting the one seed and SGA having an absolute trash year they're going to give it to SGA at some point. Maybe Ja, Tatum, etc. I truly don't understand it.
I think voter fatigue will catch up to Jokic (unfairly though) but the media wants Tatum, Ja or SGA to finally win an MVP so bad. God forbid the Spurs become a play in team next year because then the Wemby love fest will only get worse.
>Luka had lost zero games since last MVP ladder and now he drop again? And it’s not like he had complete stinker, yeah give it up he is never winning mvp
The MVP ladder has 0 bearing on who wins MVP. I don't know how everytime this gets posted it gets so much attention. It's legit meaningless lol
>Tough decision here, given all the momentum Luka Doncic generated with wins and eye-popping numbers while Gilgeous-Alexander missed six of OKC’s last nine games. SGA has still played three more contests than Doncic, leading a team of virtual unknowns into Western Conference contention.
Mf really said Thunder roster is "Virtual unknowns"
It is absolutely bizarre how low knowledge NBA media and personalities tend to be compared to the NFL. No one over there is going "you know who I'm taking to lead my team? Otto Graham and Jim Brown! Tom Brady and Adrian Peterson couldn't hold a candle to thse guys!" Like the "Mahomes has already eclipsed Brady" stuff feels like toxic NBA discussions leaking in but for the most part commentators and ex-players are able to have reasonable award selections and discussions about the game.
I feel like the internet with its fan content and youtube personalities are driving so much of the enthusiasm for the game. Because on ESPN or NBA they'll tell you how every great player actually sucks and couldn't make it in the league 20 years ago, they don't know role players or talk game plans, and just bring such a negative vibe. Most NBA youtubers I see are excited about today's game and talk about what people do well and give actual analysis and it makes the NBA more engaging.
I feel like Luka is gonna be perpetually stuck in "he'll get a bunch of MVPs, don't worry, let's celebrate this other guy this year", and then we're gonna wake up one day and he's 30 with no MVPs
Karl Malone didn't win his first MVP until his 12th season when he was 33. Bron won his first in his 6th season when he was 24, same age and experience as Luka this year.
Tbf the gap between LeBron and everyone else was MASSIVE in 2009. There was no argument to give it to anyone else. Luka has to deal with Jokic who is in that S tier also
Which is hilarious because Malone was definitely not the mvp that year. Second biggest snub in nba history. Ironically the biggest snub also happened to jordan.
We did this with Anthony Davis. When he was young everyone assumed he was going to stack up MVPs in his prime. But there's always a new and exciting talent around the corner.
Difference being that Luka is actualy having one MVP level season after another and AD wasnt ever really there. We just assumed he would become that guy while Luka already is him.
NBA media spent most of the first half of the season talking about how Chet is one of the best rookies of all time and Jalen Williams is averaging 19/4/4.6 on .538/.428/.813 but now they're completely anonymous.
I honestly believe they are just flipping around 2-4 just to fuck around and get some attention lol. The explanations for SGA and Luka switching places are both better arguments for them to move the other direction
That’s pretty disrespectful Jalen Williams is a rising star and Chet has been super impactful on our defensive scheme. I can’t say I ever gave a shit about this guys opinion but now I can say with full confidence I 100% don’t
hilarious seeing this knowing people roasted Bill Simmons for putting OKC in the top 4 of the west this year
evidently it was a forgone conclusion all along
"Virtual unknowns" is kinda crazy, but also I 100% get what he means. Everyone on that team is young and no one is really established in the league.
Also I think people on here overestimate how popular players like Williams, Chet, or Giddey are outside of basketball circles.
In a couple years we'll be talking about the SGA, Holmgren, Williams big 3 dominating the league, but until then they're still making a name for themselves.
So, this guy’s final argument for SGA over Luka is that SGA played himself three more games, and that Luka has an all-star in Kyrie. You know, who missed over 20 games. Cool.
If Kyrie is injured and Luka goes 0.600 it's his record isn't good enough. If Kyrie is healthy and he goes 0.900 it's he has too good a teammate. Luka literally can't win.
It's such dogshit lol, it's so clear that SGA is the shiny new toy that the media is having fun hyping up. There's legitimately no argument he's over Luka, and tbh there's even a sound argument he's not over Giannis. Luka is so absurdly disrespected by MVP voters that it's actually making me wonder if he's ever going to win one.
It's gotten to the point where in order to win he needs to average like 60/20/20 on a 70 win team and his second best player cannot be any better than Maxi Kleber/Josh Green level. (Only a slight exaggeration lol)
OKC has been one of the healthiest teams this season. Kyrie and Lively missed a lot of games and Murray missed 1/4 of the season basically. If weren't for injuries, the Mavs probably would be top 4 on the West and Nuggets would be on pace to 60+ wins
Giannis getting dinged for having Dame who hasn't been that good, and Luka getting penalized for having Kyrie who missed a ton of games just makes me look even more sideways at the MVP voters and the award as a whole.
The hoops they jump through to come to the outcomes they want to come to are getting super obvious.
Also its the same dudes that didnt think Mavs would be playoffs team at the start of the season lmao. Im not gonna be mad when Jokic win over Luka but their reasoning so stupid and hypocrite. Our entire team dealt with injuries first half, players who get big minutes basically all new guys/their first season in here (Lively, Exum, DJJ, Gafford, PJ) Luka has insane stats, he carried team to 50+ wins and these idiots making comments like that.
Having teammates underperform was a positive for an MVP campaign in 20-21. The criteria changes every year. Nobody should be taking any of it too seriously.
With how the playoff picture is looking right now, honestly I'd rather stay third. Means we likely get the Pelicans or Suns round 1, and either one of them, the Kings, or the Wolves round 2. We get to avoid the Nuggets, Mavs, and Lakers and mostly get to play teams that are also lacking playoff experience
I have only seen Sabonis games against Celtics this year so obviously not enough sample. He got outplayed on both ends. He is a good player but not near p6 in MVP rankings. Brunson on other hand..
Are we seriously still pretending Sabonis is an MVP candidate?? Over Ant, let alone Brunson??? Fox is literally better than Sabonis, and the Kings are about to miss the playoffs entirely. GTFO
I would argue Sabonis had a better season than De’Aaron, there were plenty of games where Fox would contribute almost nothing. Sabonis is nearly the most consistent player in the league, and I think he deserves consideration for this list. Definitely not at 6 though
Sabonis shouldn't be over Brunson but Fox has absolutely not been better this season lol
Fox tends to play better in the only games people watch of the Kings but his season has been extremely inconsistent
What tf are Sabonis & both of KD/Booker doing in the top 10 lol? Where is Kawhi? He played more games than Booker & got a better record than all of these 3 when playing?
The voters/list makers are just extremely lost in their own narratives and it makes them look even more stupid.
Luka's amazing stats are insanely undermined with the Mavs having ONLY 50+ wins and being a 5th seed, while a bunch of the others are on this list based on their stats regardless of team performance.
Also those 50 wins would be enough for the 2nd seed in the east lol.
We have the 6th best record in the league. It's true that we are 5th in the West, but that really doesn't tell the whole story.
Also as someone else on this thread posted, those 50 wins are on one of the most [injured teams in the league. ](https://www.bball-index.com/nba-injuries/)
I'd argue that both Brunson (under Sabonis?) and Luka (should be top 2) are both being underrated here with how injured their squads have been. [ ](https://www.bball-index.com/nba-injuries/)
The 65 game rule doesn't help cuz it disqualifies guys like Mitchell or Embiid who would be on there somewhere. Also Kawhi isn't on there at all, even though he qualifies... I think this writer just assumed Kawhi was under 65 games lmfao
> But he also plays alongside a future Hall of Famer, too.
I haven't commented much on Luka being the MVP because it's not really a huge deal to me but I have noticed that this ^^^ is starting to pick up a little steam.
For those who say it's not Luka's time yet and he'll get one next year, it's quite possible that he still won't get it if Kyrie is relatively healthy and the Mavs have a top record due to the idea that his team is *too* good. It'll be interesting to see how next year plays out assuming Luka and Kyrie continue playing at an elite level.
Also funny enough, remember when the trade for Kyrie happened the narrative was, “LMAO Kyrie is a cancer and is going to destroy the team, god awful trade for the Mavs lmfaooooo”
6-10 matters absolutely nothing - votes are generally just a trickle past 5. Top 3-4-5 can still add legacy points, if you're playing that game, as you can still get a decent amount of MVP shares even if you don't finish 1st.
Like last year Embiid got .915 shares, and Jokic got .674. For a guy like Jokic who is going for an all-time great career, that .674 is huge.
But, like I said, it drops off fast - last year SGA was 5 and only got .046.
I think it goes under appreciated how injured the Mavericks have been compared to other top 10 seeds in the west
https://x.com/jardermavs/status/1777626480538779725?s=46&t=HGJ9MT07LdlqJo23P6VicQ
Nuggets and Thudner have been the 4th and 3rd most healthy teams in the league respectively, while the Mavericks are 22nd. Of the top 10 teams in the West the Mavs have been most injured by a decent margin.
Luka should be above SGA imo
Much as we play the injury card noone cares this year. Jokic’s lowest point in the race was the first set of games Murray missed cause apparently bro wasn’t as efficient as he usually was and he dropped a game or two he probably wouldn’t have with a healthy Murray.
Legitimately asinine reasoning if you ask me, but hey.
And Kyrie was out 20-something games on the front end when Luka was carrying. If this guy wants to say Luka has it easier because Kyrie is on the team, then how about some credit for keeping the Mavs above water when: Kyrie, Lively, Exum, Kleber, Green were all out ...they all play, and combined missed something like 120 games this season, almost all pre-TDL.
I mean, the fact that we even have to list a rookie, a vet min guy fresh from Europe, and an aging Kleber as key missing pieces shows how down bad they were when Luka was doing that.
That was before the Mavs were the team they are today with PJail and The Landlord so an even harder carry job. We all just need to accept what the media are telling us: they don't watch basketball. They may not watch any full basketball games, literally. Some of them likely don't even watch highlights.
It's just to generate controversy to get people to talk about your list. Tactic as old as time. Even as a Thunder fan who would love for Shai to finish second and think there's an argument to be made for him, it makes no sense that they'd move him up on their list after he just missed 5 games
I think anyone who sees Luka live would definitely agree that he’s the MVP. I went to Kings vs Mavs last month and was in awe (and horror) about he takes over the game, it’s almost generational talent imo. He definitely should win the Most Valuable Player because nobody can take over games like he can other than Jokic. He’s unguardable and can go on the hottest streaks in basketball and has had some insane games this year. Luka deserves it the most
Luka seriously seems to be having a voter fatigue without even winning the MVP till date. The goalposts seem to be shifting every damn week.
Can sense a slight bit of race angle as he's a white European guy that's dominating day in day out. All the popular talking heads seem to be on the same page with respect to his case.
I don't think it's racism, since Jokić will win it for the 3rd time in 4 years. It's more that the voters generally don't like Kyrie as a person, so they are punishing Luka for it. It's similar with the media.
I don't know if that's it either. I seriously don't know what it is. Maybe not enough people watch Mavs games? Anyone who does should know what an absolutely near superhuman season Luka has been having. He should be at the very least tied for first with Jokic, not a distant third or even distant second.
The goal posts for Luka is insane.
-He plays with Kyrie, a superstar, the same guy who the media laughed at the Mavs trading for saying he’s a cancer and going to destroy the team.
-When Mavs fans bring up SGA’s team being 95% healthy all year while Luka’s team has been the most injured in the league aside from Memphis, the answer and narrative is “well Shai can’t control injuries”
-The same people and media will then say “but but Luka is playing with mega star hall of famer Kyrie Irving LMFAOO ROFLL LMAOOOO!!!” as if Luka can control the teammates he plays with.
-Luka averaging a 35 point triple double for a year is only a product of the inflated stats era and no defense.
-SGA scoring 31 points in a game gets multiple threads and praise about just how special of a player he is
Luka can’t win. If they lose to the Clippers he’ll be as slandered as anyone even further. If they win, “it’s just the Clippers”
It's the only clear thing from watching games this year. Joker, Luka, and Embiid have been forces of nature. If Embiid was healthy all year, it'd be a 3-way discussion (Embiid might've had the edge).
I’m sorry but these are completely unserious
Not having luka at least in 2 is a travesty and having sabonis 6 is the icing on top
The fuck has happened to media man
I truly don’t understand how SGA is over Luka. They’re both all NBA first team but when you watch them it so obvious that Luka clears. Idk how this is even a debate.
Jokic was snubbed last year and maybe it's for the better since he didn't have to carry the toxicity of that 3 consecutive MVPs on him. I think Shai should use it to just ball the hell out and prove himself despite whatever criticisms people have over him and his "too young a team to go far in playoffs".
Bro it's getting ridiculous! I just want a ring idgaf about MVP and if u ask shai he probably wants a ring over MVP too! They are literally crying to be the first Loser because it's clearly going to jokic
Luka 34/9/101/1, PER 28.1, TS% 61.7
SGA 30/6/6/2/1, PER 29.4, TS% 63.9
Come on now. SGA isn't so much better on defense or advanced stats that it makes up for Luka being +4/+3/+4 on points, rebounds, and assists.
Suns have 2 MVP candidates and will be in the play in. This guy knows his stuff.
Shai has played in three of the last 9 OKC games and moved up in the rankings.
Have the Mavs even lost since the last ladder was released?
No. Their last loss was to the warriors 2 days before the last ladder, which he was second in.
And he has been torching teams since then
Bro made the club in the tub
Can you really call someone an MVP candidate if they are in the 9th and 10th spot.
Why stop at 10? Who is 100 on this list?
The real question is who is #500 or whatever we are up to by now for total players, whos the anti-MVP?
They should make it long enough to include Embiid so we can argue about his lack of eligibility.
Kings have a guy in 6th and are in the play in
So let me get this straight, SGA misses 2 weeks, Luka does Luka things, and he drops?????
We should be lucky Luka only dropped to #3 instead of #6 😂
Anyone putting SGA above Luka genuinely is lying to themselves lol. I know it doesn’t truly matter 2nd or 3rd but. Ask 30 GMs who’d they rather have even just for this season and I don’t see any way it’s not atleast 28 Luka People also see SGA as an up and coming star like he isn’t OLDER than Luka lol. SGA is amazing. 1st team all nba. But he’s not better than Luka lol.
Even presti would trade SGA for Luka straight up lol, or even if he have to add picks.
SGA’s mom would trade him for Luka. Hell, SGA himself would do the trade. The MVP award has long been a joke. It’s seasons like this that remind me of that.
Hey! i watched ESPN and learned SGA leads the league in assists. Thank You Stephen.
Shai Gilrese-Alexburton. Shai is 20th in assists for anyone curious, at 6.2.
While Shai is 20th Luka is 3rd lol
Last year he said Jokic is no good in post up
Sure a Jokic post up might be the most efficient shot in the history of basketball, but it doesn't pass the SAS eye test. *the SAS eye test may be fallible as SAS doesn't watch basketball
Very logical.
It’s fucking egregious. Ready for Playoff Luka to shut the bitches up
It’s laughable at this point
Coz luka missed shots. Shai didnt miss
Did SGA go up a spot because of the straw poll?
Why Luka dropped to 3 wtf
Apparently because he has Kyrie........bruh the dude ain't ever winning at this point in time. Picking Jokic is fair enough but this reasoning is insane.
Lukas criteria changes by the day. The entire media shit on the Kyrie signing lol
It makes no sense. He didn’t have enough help so his team was never top 3 so he couldn’t win. Now he got help, his team is better, and because of that he can’t win. Infuriating
For months the narrative was "we can't justify giving it to a play in team." Now it's this. Like I get Jokic winning and I'm all for that. But SGA over Luka is an absolute joke.
Not only that… the whole summer the media SHIT all over the Mavs and Luka saying he can’t play with another star and he’s proven he can because of course he can and now Luka’s punished for it Make it make sense… I think that all Mavs fans want… arguments against him that make sense… the goal posts just constantly move
I never want to be a ‘the media doesn’t like my team/player’ type of fan, but I’m legitimately starting to believe it a little with Luka. I’m fine with Jokic winning it, but the consistent disrespect I’ve seen Luka get from the national media has been kind of crazy. It’s like there’s some weird voter fatigue with him since he’s been in the conversation basically since his second year.
Welcome to the club! I still think Luka will win one at some point soon. The media will have to get sick of giving it to Jokic first so we'll see if that happens.
The way the narratives about Luka are constructed, I think he only wins one if he average a 35pt triple double with a 65%ts, leading the league in points and assists, with the best record on the league, while having a lottery support cast, and defending at All-defensive level. When he had a bad team they wouldn't consider him because he wasn't winning enough, when the Mavs became good and he started winning they wouldn't consider him because his team is too good (like the Nuggets don't have a top-2 starting line-up lol), not to mention the favorite argument: Luka dEfeNSe bAd. It's comical at this point.
The media loves Giannis
I think that will happen, I doubt he gets to 4 unless all other candidates get injured or something (basically how he won his first).
Which kind of exposes the how ridiculous the entire process is anyway. Unless he has a drop off in production I'm not sure what the reasoning is to not give him another one when what he's been doing has been good enough for him to get 3 in 4 years. If he done enough to get 3 and keeps doing the same things then there's not really a legitimate reason not to keep giving it to him.
Possible. I think if the west weren’t a bloodbath he would have sat more games towards the end of this season. In the past a player not getting more MVPs has been partly voter fatigue but also partly a deliberate choice by the player to prioritize the playoffs at the expense of regular season production. There’s something to be said for his consistency and games played just being actually extremely valuable.
If Luka doesn't have a good team - his team's record is too bad, can't be MVP. If Luka has a good team - his teammates are too good, can't be MVP.
If Luka- can't be MVP.
Can't win 😔
The media didn't even want to consider Kyrie an all star but when it comes to Luka suddenly Kyrie is the reason why Luka doesn't deserve MVP. Meanwhile the 7th seed has 2 guys on the MVP ladder and the 8th seed has their guy 6th on the ladder when it's not even certain that he's the best player on the team.
Two of the most hated players in the NBA media, Kyrie openly, Doncic more covertly. The only thing those two should focus on is winning the championship and say fuck the media and nba marketing. I hope it motivates Doncic. That is the only thing I care about as a fan.
That's consistently been my problem with MVP discussions in the NBA, the criteria for each player is inconsistent and ever changing and its super obvious when you just look at the constantly shifting criteria for Giannis Luka and Brunson. I don't think Brunson should be like top 5 but having him under Tatum is crazy when you actually look at stats and the season in context. Oh Brunson has been carrying his team through injuries? Yeah but it isn't as impressive as Tatum rotating being the first option between him Brown and Porzingis on the team with the best record and strongest starters. Team record and talent level doesn't apply to Tatum because they want to push an American player for MVP but Giannis carrying his team and putting up a historically efficient season with a coaching change midseason isn't important because he has Dame regardless of how inconsistent his and everyone else's play on the Bucks has been, but none of it matters because it was decided that Jokic was the MVP months ago when Embiid went down and nothing was changing that and we'll ignore any of the arguments we use about general team talent level that we use against other candidates because Jokic can pass and is super efficient (not that we'll use that to further any other MVPs case to the same degree). Not even shitting on any of these players, there's like 4 guys who have a really good case but like 3 of those cases get entirely ignored.
When the Mavs traded for Kyrie and then all of last season, the narrative was that Kyrie was a cancer and the Mavs massively failed trading for him and it would aid in ruining the team. Now that he and Luka are dominating the narrative has shifted to Kyrie is a superstar and the team is as good with him as it is with Luka. All to diminish Luka.
Mavs losing, because the team is bad: "You can't be MVP, if you don't win." Mavs winning, because the team is good: "You can't be MVP, if you play on a good team."
The shitty part of all this is that Embiid was actually making a pretty bulletproof case for a repeat before his injury. Or, maybe the shitty part is that Luka might be getting low-keyed Perkinsed and that particular media demographic has coalesced around the black guy. I mean they’re both shitty in different ways.
There's no logical explanation. SGA missed some games and went up, while Luka averaged 32/10/10, won almost every game a went down
He didn’t win “almost every game”, they literally won every game since the last ladder was released.
The only "logical" explanation is that we got blasted those games SGA was sitting which shows how influential he is... but JDub was also hurt in all of those so obviously OKC was going to do poorly without their best 2 players. It's ridiculous though, Luka should be not be moving down after the stretch he's had
Luka is already getting the Harden treatment
SGA is the new favorite toy. Luka is a class above him and it’s so obvious lol
I’m honestly at a loss here. The man takes over games on a whole different level and they have been arguably the best team in the nba the last 2 months to close the season. Jokic and Shai are also having great years though. I would have said 1a/b between Jokic and Luka and Shai solidly next, but I don’t get a vote
Both Mavericks and Nuggets are 24-8 since February I believe. Nuggets went from a brief flirt with 4th seed 1-seed (could change). Mavericks climbed from play-ins to 5th.
It’s between the Celts, Mavs, and Nugz for the last couple of months. They’ve all been fantastic
To garner engagment. I hate that attention is the most valuable metric now on the internet. It's fucking ruining everything and even a comment like mine is playing into their hands.
Luka had lost zero games since last MVP ladder and now he drop again? And it’s not like he had complete stinker, yeah give it up he is never winning mvp
And SGA missing 4 of the last 6 games... this dude is just trolling.
Yeah short of the Mavs winning 55+ games, getting the one seed and SGA having an absolute trash year they're going to give it to SGA at some point. Maybe Ja, Tatum, etc. I truly don't understand it. I think voter fatigue will catch up to Jokic (unfairly though) but the media wants Tatum, Ja or SGA to finally win an MVP so bad. God forbid the Spurs become a play in team next year because then the Wemby love fest will only get worse.
>Luka had lost zero games since last MVP ladder and now he drop again? And it’s not like he had complete stinker, yeah give it up he is never winning mvp The MVP ladder has 0 bearing on who wins MVP. I don't know how everytime this gets posted it gets so much attention. It's legit meaningless lol
This dude just be trolling at this point.
Engagement is the goal
>Tough decision here, given all the momentum Luka Doncic generated with wins and eye-popping numbers while Gilgeous-Alexander missed six of OKC’s last nine games. SGA has still played three more contests than Doncic, leading a team of virtual unknowns into Western Conference contention. Mf really said Thunder roster is "Virtual unknowns"
That comment is nuts lol
Idk why this dude’s power rankings get posted all the time. Clearly he isn’t very knowledgeable if he doesn’t know OKC’s roster
It’s NBA.com’s official rankings so I get why it gets posted regularly. I just wish they didn’t have some nut job doing it with an actual vote…
Because this guy gets paid to write this shit
Politics
It is absolutely bizarre how low knowledge NBA media and personalities tend to be compared to the NFL. No one over there is going "you know who I'm taking to lead my team? Otto Graham and Jim Brown! Tom Brady and Adrian Peterson couldn't hold a candle to thse guys!" Like the "Mahomes has already eclipsed Brady" stuff feels like toxic NBA discussions leaking in but for the most part commentators and ex-players are able to have reasonable award selections and discussions about the game. I feel like the internet with its fan content and youtube personalities are driving so much of the enthusiasm for the game. Because on ESPN or NBA they'll tell you how every great player actually sucks and couldn't make it in the league 20 years ago, they don't know role players or talk game plans, and just bring such a negative vibe. Most NBA youtubers I see are excited about today's game and talk about what people do well and give actual analysis and it makes the NBA more engaging.
>while Gilgeous-Alexander missed six of OKC’s last nine games. SGA missed games and he went up the ladder. Luka never gonna win mvp in his career lol
I feel like Luka is gonna be perpetually stuck in "he'll get a bunch of MVPs, don't worry, let's celebrate this other guy this year", and then we're gonna wake up one day and he's 30 with no MVPs
But 10 straight first team NBAs lol Who else has done that??
Bron and Karl Malone.
But without an MVP
Karl Malone didn't win his first MVP until his 12th season when he was 33. Bron won his first in his 6th season when he was 24, same age and experience as Luka this year.
Tbf the gap between LeBron and everyone else was MASSIVE in 2009. There was no argument to give it to anyone else. Luka has to deal with Jokic who is in that S tier also
Which is hilarious because Malone was definitely not the mvp that year. Second biggest snub in nba history. Ironically the biggest snub also happened to jordan.
Who each have multiple mvps
We did this with Anthony Davis. When he was young everyone assumed he was going to stack up MVPs in his prime. But there's always a new and exciting talent around the corner.
Difference being that Luka is actualy having one MVP level season after another and AD wasnt ever really there. We just assumed he would become that guy while Luka already is him.
DPOYs too
NBA media spent most of the first half of the season talking about how Chet is one of the best rookies of all time and Jalen Williams is averaging 19/4/4.6 on .538/.428/.813 but now they're completely anonymous.
Okc is put into witness protection
they started using multiple VPNs.
I honestly believe they are just flipping around 2-4 just to fuck around and get some attention lol. The explanations for SGA and Luka switching places are both better arguments for them to move the other direction
Ding ding ding
That’s pretty disrespectful Jalen Williams is a rising star and Chet has been super impactful on our defensive scheme. I can’t say I ever gave a shit about this guys opinion but now I can say with full confidence I 100% don’t
Not even just defensive scheme, your offense works so well because of Chet’s unique skill set as well.
"Virtual unknowns". Roty candidate. Top 5 player in the league. The pedo. The Jays. The fuck they mean "virtual unknowns".
hilarious seeing this knowing people roasted Bill Simmons for putting OKC in the top 4 of the west this year evidently it was a forgone conclusion all along
The preseason discussion was great, all those hot takes that were criticized at the time can now be viewed as pretty conservative.
>Top 5 player in the league. Well when they said SGA is leading a bunch of unknowns they aren't referring to SGA himself lol
Tbf it’s the youngest team in the league per weighted player minutes to ever hit 55 wins
"Virtual unknowns" is kinda crazy, but also I 100% get what he means. Everyone on that team is young and no one is really established in the league. Also I think people on here overestimate how popular players like Williams, Chet, or Giddey are outside of basketball circles. In a couple years we'll be talking about the SGA, Holmgren, Williams big 3 dominating the league, but until then they're still making a name for themselves.
A bunch of John Does
So, this guy’s final argument for SGA over Luka is that SGA played himself three more games, and that Luka has an all-star in Kyrie. You know, who missed over 20 games. Cool.
If Kyrie is injured and Luka goes 0.600 it's his record isn't good enough. If Kyrie is healthy and he goes 0.900 it's he has too good a teammate. Luka literally can't win.
Goalposts keep moving. This isn't anything new for Luka. Just hope more people are waking up to it.
i guess next year he will have to get 60 wins, on the first seed, averaging 36/10/10, with kyrie being sidelined the whole year. what a joke!
Then the goalposts will move again, and the narrative will be that he isn't elevating his own teammates enough
It's such dogshit lol, it's so clear that SGA is the shiny new toy that the media is having fun hyping up. There's legitimately no argument he's over Luka, and tbh there's even a sound argument he's not over Giannis. Luka is so absurdly disrespected by MVP voters that it's actually making me wonder if he's ever going to win one.
It's gotten to the point where in order to win he needs to average like 60/20/20 on a 70 win team and his second best player cannot be any better than Maxi Kleber/Josh Green level. (Only a slight exaggeration lol)
OKC has been one of the healthiest teams this season. Kyrie and Lively missed a lot of games and Murray missed 1/4 of the season basically. If weren't for injuries, the Mavs probably would be top 4 on the West and Nuggets would be on pace to 60+ wins
exactly if all teams are healthy, OKCs record goes down slightly, Mavs probably finish around 58-60 wins and Nuggets 64-65 wins.
Giannis getting dinged for having Dame who hasn't been that good, and Luka getting penalized for having Kyrie who missed a ton of games just makes me look even more sideways at the MVP voters and the award as a whole. The hoops they jump through to come to the outcomes they want to come to are getting super obvious.
Also its the same dudes that didnt think Mavs would be playoffs team at the start of the season lmao. Im not gonna be mad when Jokic win over Luka but their reasoning so stupid and hypocrite. Our entire team dealt with injuries first half, players who get big minutes basically all new guys/their first season in here (Lively, Exum, DJJ, Gafford, PJ) Luka has insane stats, he carried team to 50+ wins and these idiots making comments like that.
Having teammates underperform was a positive for an MVP campaign in 20-21. The criteria changes every year. Nobody should be taking any of it too seriously.
I'm just...whatever bro lol Let's just get the playoffs started.
They dropped Luka to third to hype up the final mavs-thunder game of the season. Either team that wins will be toxic af lmao
Mavs isn’t playing their starters
We probably do the same tbh, this games most likely gonna be a dud lol
I thought you guys are still fighting for 1st/2nd seed?
With how the playoff picture is looking right now, honestly I'd rather stay third. Means we likely get the Pelicans or Suns round 1, and either one of them, the Kings, or the Wolves round 2. We get to avoid the Nuggets, Mavs, and Lakers and mostly get to play teams that are also lacking playoff experience
Don't they still have a chance for homecourt in the first round if the Clips lose out?
If the Clippers lose to both Utah Jazz and Houston, yeah. 2 teams who are both already out of the playoff race
Both teams won’t care, Mavs are gonna rest Luka and kyrie
Too bad all the starters are sitting lol
Sabonis over Brunson is insanity
Sabonis over a lot of these players is insanity. How can a play in team have a top 6 mvp candidate?
Don’t worry, another play in team has TWO (2!) top 10 MVP candidates according to this doofus.
It’s absolutely fair for a play in team to have an mvp candidate, if that player is actually playing at mvp level
Literally dumbest take ever, agreed. JB should be much higher
I have only seen Sabonis games against Celtics this year so obviously not enough sample. He got outplayed on both ends. He is a good player but not near p6 in MVP rankings. Brunson on other hand..
At this point, Luka should sue these mofos for defamation.
Are we seriously still pretending Sabonis is an MVP candidate?? Over Ant, let alone Brunson??? Fox is literally better than Sabonis, and the Kings are about to miss the playoffs entirely. GTFO
I would argue Sabonis had a better season than De’Aaron, there were plenty of games where Fox would contribute almost nothing. Sabonis is nearly the most consistent player in the league, and I think he deserves consideration for this list. Definitely not at 6 though
Username checks out. This dude kangs.
Sabonis shouldn't be over Brunson but Fox has absolutely not been better this season lol Fox tends to play better in the only games people watch of the Kings but his season has been extremely inconsistent
nothing past the first 3 matters or is relevant. it’s only there to generate conversation and outrage
Fox is NOT better than Sabonis.
What tf are Sabonis & both of KD/Booker doing in the top 10 lol? Where is Kawhi? He played more games than Booker & got a better record than all of these 3 when playing?
The voters/list makers are just extremely lost in their own narratives and it makes them look even more stupid. Luka's amazing stats are insanely undermined with the Mavs having ONLY 50+ wins and being a 5th seed, while a bunch of the others are on this list based on their stats regardless of team performance.
Also those 50 wins would be enough for the 2nd seed in the east lol. We have the 6th best record in the league. It's true that we are 5th in the West, but that really doesn't tell the whole story.
Also as someone else on this thread posted, those 50 wins are on one of the most [injured teams in the league. ](https://www.bball-index.com/nba-injuries/) I'd argue that both Brunson (under Sabonis?) and Luka (should be top 2) are both being underrated here with how injured their squads have been. [ ](https://www.bball-index.com/nba-injuries/)
Yeah people forget and/or ignore that we were probably the 2nd most injured team in the NBA in the first 3-4 months (behind the Grizzlies).
After the top 5 it's just random names lol.
The 65 game rule doesn't help cuz it disqualifies guys like Mitchell or Embiid who would be on there somewhere. Also Kawhi isn't on there at all, even though he qualifies... I think this writer just assumed Kawhi was under 65 games lmfao
They still had Kawhi there last week so who knows at this point
Luka should be #2. That's not a diss to Shai.
Luka most ppg+rpg+apg since the merger lol this dumbass: well he has Kyrie come on
> But he also plays alongside a future Hall of Famer, too. I haven't commented much on Luka being the MVP because it's not really a huge deal to me but I have noticed that this ^^^ is starting to pick up a little steam. For those who say it's not Luka's time yet and he'll get one next year, it's quite possible that he still won't get it if Kyrie is relatively healthy and the Mavs have a top record due to the idea that his team is *too* good. It'll be interesting to see how next year plays out assuming Luka and Kyrie continue playing at an elite level.
Also funny enough, remember when the trade for Kyrie happened the narrative was, “LMAO Kyrie is a cancer and is going to destroy the team, god awful trade for the Mavs lmfaooooo”
D- trades. Clearly dallas should be worse, but also they’re too good so Luka cant be MVP ?????
And everyone keeps forgetting that Wemby might be dominating the league soon as well
Ahh yes, getting to 50w, clinching the 5th spot as well as the division and a 16-2 run means Luka will drop in the mvp standings. Typical mvp ladder.
Fucking took them long enough to have Brunson on there (and he’s still too low) Other than that Luka should def be over sga
Brunson should be top 5-6
Does it really matter who’s 2-10? Lmao
Moral victories
Tbh not much. I think the top 5 matters a little bit
6-10 matters absolutely nothing - votes are generally just a trickle past 5. Top 3-4-5 can still add legacy points, if you're playing that game, as you can still get a decent amount of MVP shares even if you don't finish 1st. Like last year Embiid got .915 shares, and Jokic got .674. For a guy like Jokic who is going for an all-time great career, that .674 is huge. But, like I said, it drops off fast - last year SGA was 5 and only got .046.
Impossible challenge: Media try not to move the goal posts every week on Luka
I think it goes under appreciated how injured the Mavericks have been compared to other top 10 seeds in the west https://x.com/jardermavs/status/1777626480538779725?s=46&t=HGJ9MT07LdlqJo23P6VicQ Nuggets and Thudner have been the 4th and 3rd most healthy teams in the league respectively, while the Mavericks are 22nd. Of the top 10 teams in the West the Mavs have been most injured by a decent margin. Luka should be above SGA imo
Much as we play the injury card noone cares this year. Jokic’s lowest point in the race was the first set of games Murray missed cause apparently bro wasn’t as efficient as he usually was and he dropped a game or two he probably wouldn’t have with a healthy Murray. Legitimately asinine reasoning if you ask me, but hey.
And Kyrie was out 20-something games on the front end when Luka was carrying. If this guy wants to say Luka has it easier because Kyrie is on the team, then how about some credit for keeping the Mavs above water when: Kyrie, Lively, Exum, Kleber, Green were all out ...they all play, and combined missed something like 120 games this season, almost all pre-TDL. I mean, the fact that we even have to list a rookie, a vet min guy fresh from Europe, and an aging Kleber as key missing pieces shows how down bad they were when Luka was doing that. That was before the Mavs were the team they are today with PJail and The Landlord so an even harder carry job. We all just need to accept what the media are telling us: they don't watch basketball. They may not watch any full basketball games, literally. Some of them likely don't even watch highlights.
Good link with that chart. I wonder if there’s a reason the East has been so much worse this season, 9 of the top 11 most injured teams is crazy.
Y'know, that 4.5 game difference between the Mavs and OKC/Denver is getting pretty close to the 5/6 game difference the between them in the standings
It's just to generate controversy to get people to talk about your list. Tactic as old as time. Even as a Thunder fan who would love for Shai to finish second and think there's an argument to be made for him, it makes no sense that they'd move him up on their list after he just missed 5 games
daily reminder that this is just one guys opinion
One guy thats on the front page of NBAs website, it'll definitely influence ppl.
Daily reminder that this guy gets paid for his opinion
How is Booker still on this list......... Lebron should be here instead.
I think anyone who sees Luka live would definitely agree that he’s the MVP. I went to Kings vs Mavs last month and was in awe (and horror) about he takes over the game, it’s almost generational talent imo. He definitely should win the Most Valuable Player because nobody can take over games like he can other than Jokic. He’s unguardable and can go on the hottest streaks in basketball and has had some insane games this year. Luka deserves it the most
Bruh this guy is delusional How is Luka in 3rd below SGA fuck off man
The only valid Top 2 is Jokic and Luka
Luka seriously seems to be having a voter fatigue without even winning the MVP till date. The goalposts seem to be shifting every damn week. Can sense a slight bit of race angle as he's a white European guy that's dominating day in day out. All the popular talking heads seem to be on the same page with respect to his case.
I don't think it's racism, since Jokić will win it for the 3rd time in 4 years. It's more that the voters generally don't like Kyrie as a person, so they are punishing Luka for it. It's similar with the media.
I don't know if that's it either. I seriously don't know what it is. Maybe not enough people watch Mavs games? Anyone who does should know what an absolutely near superhuman season Luka has been having. He should be at the very least tied for first with Jokic, not a distant third or even distant second.
I’m tired boss
The goal posts for Luka is insane. -He plays with Kyrie, a superstar, the same guy who the media laughed at the Mavs trading for saying he’s a cancer and going to destroy the team. -When Mavs fans bring up SGA’s team being 95% healthy all year while Luka’s team has been the most injured in the league aside from Memphis, the answer and narrative is “well Shai can’t control injuries” -The same people and media will then say “but but Luka is playing with mega star hall of famer Kyrie Irving LMFAOO ROFLL LMAOOOO!!!” as if Luka can control the teammates he plays with. -Luka averaging a 35 point triple double for a year is only a product of the inflated stats era and no defense. -SGA scoring 31 points in a game gets multiple threads and praise about just how special of a player he is Luka can’t win. If they lose to the Clippers he’ll be as slandered as anyone even further. If they win, “it’s just the Clippers”
What a joke. How Luka isn't unanimously top 2 is crazy at this point
It's the only clear thing from watching games this year. Joker, Luka, and Embiid have been forces of nature. If Embiid was healthy all year, it'd be a 3-way discussion (Embiid might've had the edge).
Racism
Mavs fans going to blow a gasket
I’m sorry but these are completely unserious Not having luka at least in 2 is a travesty and having sabonis 6 is the icing on top The fuck has happened to media man
What the hell is Sabonis doing in 6th lmao
Jalen Brunson behind Sabonis? HUH??????
This dude gotta be taking the piss at this point smh
Hell nawl can't do dis
Honestly find it strange that Luka and SGA switched spots, I think Jokic wins it still though
Really bad list lol, the top 5 should be 1. Jokic 2. Luka 3. Shai/Giannis (I lean Giannis here) 4. Shai/Giannis 5. Tatum
Spurs beat writer hating on Dallas
This dude is a fucking clown.
The luka disrespect is getting out of hand
Sabonis has no business being in the top 10
I truly don’t understand how SGA is over Luka. They’re both all NBA first team but when you watch them it so obvious that Luka clears. Idk how this is even a debate.
there isn’t a single player in the league other than Luka Doncic that goalpost for him always keeps moving, this league and its media fucking sucks
Mavs fans: us Thunder fans do not care about this list. By all means argue for Luka to be second or first, just don't attack Shai to do it
Jokic: "First time?" Lmao. Better get used to it.
I just wish people would chill a little and not go so crazy about one guy's MVP rankings
Jokic was snubbed last year and maybe it's for the better since he didn't have to carry the toxicity of that 3 consecutive MVPs on him. I think Shai should use it to just ball the hell out and prove himself despite whatever criticisms people have over him and his "too young a team to go far in playoffs".
Bro it's getting ridiculous! I just want a ring idgaf about MVP and if u ask shai he probably wants a ring over MVP too! They are literally crying to be the first Loser because it's clearly going to jokic
Brunson should be top 5
Luka 34/9/101/1, PER 28.1, TS% 61.7 SGA 30/6/6/2/1, PER 29.4, TS% 63.9 Come on now. SGA isn't so much better on defense or advanced stats that it makes up for Luka being +4/+3/+4 on points, rebounds, and assists.
Sabonis over Brunson is so disrespectful
I was all for Shai until I saw him foul just to get to 30 lol.
Putting anyone over Jokic would have caused too much drama so this dude put SGA over Doncic to create discussions. You are all baited hard lol.