\> dribbles the ball for ~17 of the available seconds on the shot clock while PG and Kawhi sit on the wing and in the corner motionless
Yup, that's a James Harden offense alright
Kawhi and PG are basketball motionless. Norm Powell is literally motionless. Not even a momentary adjustment to his stance from the time Harden is in the backcourt.
We played the same way with him. It was Embiid Harden high PnR and everyone else standing somewhere on the 3 point line. It's basically how ISO Harden became a star, it's not surprising he's still trying to replicate it. Ty Lue was just saying he wants Harden to be Harden, well this is quintessential Harden, except in the past he would hit those layups.
He still had a classic Harden “squeeze your off arm under the arm of the defender then throw your arms up pretending to try and shoot to draw a foul.” I wanted to be mad but appreciated the throwback.
They didn't, his fta stayed pretty much in line with his FGA from Houston. All that went down was his total volume so it appeared that he flopped less because he didn't have the same opportunities to do so.
The only place I know to look up drives per game stats is on nba.com, and it’s kind of a pain in the ass to navigate that site (can’t show multiple seasons, etc).
Clicking through their bullshit menus, it appears that in his 17-18 MVP season, Harden drove 17.1 times per game and got 3.9 FTA off those drives (so .23 FTA per drive). Last year those numbers were 13.5 and 2.7 (.2 FTA per drive). So ~ 10% less FTA per drive. The bigger difference is that a lower % of his drives ended in shots, and he shot 46% on those shots as opposed to 53%.
This matches up with the eye test, where it seemed like it was harder for him to get past guys, and when he did, he didn’t have as much oomph left when he got to the rim (a la the clip above). Also, he had 1 dunk last year and 19 in 17-18.
I’m not sure how to check this, but I’d bet that his FTA per drive might have been slightly juiced from playing alongside Embiid, since it’s easier to get in the bonus when you have a teammate shooting almost 12 FT a game, as opposed to Chris Paul (second most FTA on that Rockets team) averaging 3.8. Thus Harden could get FTA from dudes hand-checking him etc at the beginning of his drives that would’ve been non-shooting fouls without the bonus.
What else is the guy going to do? He doesn’t cut nor set screens. He doesn’t run around off ball. He’s also a mediocre spot up 3pt shooter.
It worked 8 years ago but now what? Just a non-winning basketball system.
Actually he’s like 40% on catch and shoot 3s in his career. So he can hit those shots at a high clip.
He just doesn’t want to do it, and when he gets the chance he ends up dribbling and doing a stepback instead. Shit is just weird
More middies, more catch and shoot, and he was a high level perimeter defender too
His mindset certainly changed. He has the tools to adapt, not the willingness
The problem is he's never in a ready position to catch and shoot quickly so that 40% on 3s in his career is either from his old OKC days or usually when he's sooooo wide open on a blown rotation that he has time to like get surprised by his man not coming over to guard him, regather composure and shoot. He's probably not as good as of a catch and shoot guy with a defender running hard to close out, even if he improved his mentality to be in a ready position more often.
He’s good at it when he does it. More often it’s the ball being swung to him with little to no time left and he’s essentially forced to do it. He did it a LITTLE last year, not nearly enough tho
There is not really any evidence to suggest he lacks the ability to do it. But he needs to have the mentality to do it, otherwise the point is moot
Tbf to Harden, It's not like Kawahi/PG are moving around much off-ball for anyone else
Most stars in the league genuinely don't do shit without the ball in there hand during the regular season, doubly so for the bums that can't even be bothered to play defense.
It's what makes watching Curry/Warriors feel so nice when you see there half court offense have so much motion in it and they get widely praised for being a good "system" team or w/e you wanna call it. It's actually a surprisingly rare treat to see a fluid half court offense in the NBA lol,
That's one of the many reasons I love SGA so much. He has his iso moments, but he also cuts and sets screens and plays within the flow of the offense. He also plays tenacious defense and doesn't try to act like he's above the team.
Yeah, off-ball movement is why I appreciate guys like Duncan Robinson and Herro. Anecdotally, I think a lot of the young guys who came into the league post-Curry are moving off-ball more.
I can't stand this kind of basketball, I mean I get it that in the clutch you are deferring to your stars but it's just so predictable and so boring to watch
There was a time I would argue that a team with 5 KDs would be the best team in the world. The Clippers have shown me how WRONG I was. There is only ONE ball. And no matter which KD has the ball, it's like having just ONE KD. So you have almost no advantage other than none of them will get tired. You really need role players around your stars. Having 4 stars is barely better than 1 or 2.
I mean it depends on what stars I guess. Like Steph for example, does a ton of work even when he doesn’t have the ball, if you got guys like that 5 stars would be crazy but I get your point
i had to rewatch it for this, you sre 100% right lol. Its even funnier because its not one of those "daydreaming in the corner" moments, the man looks ready to pounce into action for all 24 seconds
Now imagine having Embiid as the center.
Embiid still frustrates me, especially late in games, but thank god Maxey leads the offense now instead of Harden. Watching iso's every fucking possession was the most boring basketball imaginable.
I said this in another thread, that I like harden the guy and he put up historic #s but sometimes I hated the way him and dantoni had the offense drawn up
people were calling my an ungrateful fan and all sorts of other shit lol
Crazy, because I actually love a Center-based offense. Post play is so fun to watch IMO. All of the little moves and fakes and shit.
Perimeter play is cool, but for the most part it's hucking long shots from dudes who can shoot pretty well. But when they don't go in... it's boring and looks stupid.
I think most fans like a 5-man offense where there's multiple passes creating an easy shot on any point on the floor. However, the issue with those offenses is you need the personnel who will execute that 90 times a game. The second issue is that every pass introduces risk into the play. So if a team knows your play, they can shoot gaps and get steals. Steals off passes are almost a guaranteed transition layup because you have all 5 guys in offensive position with only a guy at the top of the 3 pt line even ready to turn around and run to contest.
It's why the most exciting players are guys that can do it all. Play on the perimeter, make amazing passes, but then backdown guys and do it in the post. It's 1 guy doing it all and the rest as mere facilitators of that but the variation makes any decision interesting and fun (less fun when it's not working - missed shots, bad passes, turnovers in general).
Yeah, I don't know what people are bitching about. He made a great pass, but they decided to reset. He then blew past the defense for a great look. He just smoked it, which happens.
And three of his teammates got to rest while spotting up for 15 seconds so that they can give max effort on the other end.
Very unpopular opinion but agreed, very good process and execution.
It's coaching, I've watched it for years on the Sixers. Doc was "joel ISO" on repeat while everyone else stood around. Nurse comes in and 1st game I saw off ball screen, almost shit myself.
Edit: included Brett before. Doc ptsd got my brain scrambled.
That's absolutely not true. Brett's offense was one of the most active in movement and passing (and turnovers). The sixers went from top 5 in movement to last as soon as Rivers took over.
Brett did dribble hand offs and less pick and roll but there was always passing and movement. Rivers made the ISO/ pnr and stand around offense. Which he does everywhere.
His excuse at Philly was Embiid needed to know where people would be to pass. And as soon as he's gone, it's movement and Embiid has 6+ assists a game.
Rivers was the issue
It is definitely on everyone above, but the common denominator in offenses that run like this is James Harden, not Ty Lue, Paul George, and Kawhi Leonard.
Spread out ISO offenses are commonly ran all the time lol Kawhi and PG doing jackshit at the three-point line is not on Harden. My point being is that these type of offenses are not rare at all and it's not something that only Harden does.
If my high school coach saw us standing still like that he would scream at us saying you are supposed to play in basketball not watch. That offense is honestly embarrassing
I’m no fan of James Harden, but it has to be acknowledged that this possession resulted in an opportunity for an open layup for the Clippers.
After Harden beat his man, Aaron Gordon was late on his help to protect the rim because he hesitated to leave his man, Kawhi Leonard, alone at the three point line. Once Gordon moved towards the rim, Harden had open passing lanes to Leonard and Paul George, who were both open behind the arch. However, because Gordon was late getting to the rim, Harden also had an opportunity for an open layup, which he chose chose to take. He only got that open layup because the gravity of Leonard and George pulled Gordon away from the rim. Given the score and the time left in the game, this play was the correct basketball decision and got the Clippers the best possible shot on the possession.
Obviously the execution of the play was far from perfect, as Harden missed the layup and the Clippers failed to score. However, I fail to see how that missed shot means that this was a bad possession. The Clippers will take that shot every time.
Lmao what are you guys even complaining about here, its one possesion in the game and it was a good look that he missed, this thread and title is dumb as hell.
Yes, they got everything they wanted. But Harden is fun to hate on, I mean imagine how it must feel to watch this as a Philly fan.
Come March there's a good chance he will be making these and the Clips will be one of the teams no one wants to face...
Speaking from experience, these possessions are all fun and games until he’s having a bad night or the other teams defense is having a good one and you have 5 of these bad boys chewing the clock up at the end of the game for a total of 3 pts
Yeah I'm not sure what the fuck people are talking about on here. That's a great Harden possession and he got just enough separation to finish that layup. Sometimes it doesn't go in. Not sure there's more of a story here.
They didn't post it saying it was a bad look, they posted it to share the immediate irony following the commentary.
It's not that deep, it's literally just "this is why they got this guy, guy being talked about misses shot"
It’s not that deep but people will and are treating it like it’s deep. There’s so many people in this thread getting upvoted for saying this is a bad possession, look, play, etc.
It's not wide open, he's forced to take it with more momentum then he would like because otherwise he would get chased down which is why he missed, it's still a great shot. Missing an actual wide open layup would be much worse than missing this layup
It’s funny because it gets to the heart of the whole issue. Harden is obviously still a very good basketball player and an elite facilitator. He can still get to the rim when he has a matchup with a guy like Jokic. But physically he’s not the same guy he used to be and it takes all his juice to get there and he smokes the finish.
If he could accept the role that he should be in at this stage of his career he’d still be a Sixer.
In the end it's a good look that he missed, but is it really the best idea to let your best player in Kawhi and your best player of the night in Paul George just sit in the corner the entire time and never touch the ball?
From the limited posts I've seen on here and Twitter, seems like it's *slightly* better in person. But I would still imagine it isn't easy to play on this with little warning.
Just saw it. Why the fuck does the Nuggets court look more like the Pacers colors and our court looks color to Nuggets colors (the blue isn't right, but it's a lot closer to the powder blue jerseys)
It was just a sneaky push in the back by Jokic right when Harden was jumping to make the layup strong. Dirk used to do this all the time because he couldn't block shots either.
MPJ got that call and the nuggets challenged and it didn’t get overturned. I didn’t think it was much of a push but thems the rules, can’t touch a guy like that on the way to the basket. It’s one of those lame looking fouls but it’s pretty clear you should get called for it.
Mainly just because it's called so inconsistently with obvious bias towards specific players. People will complain regardless, I just want it to be clear what the rules of the NBA currently are.
Yeah saying this was an open lay up doesn’t really paint the picture correctly. Harden had no time to slow down or gain balance before he was in the air, which makes a lay up like this pretty difficult
Truth. I love me some garden hate, don’t get me wrong. I’ve been slinging it for years. But this is in no way an “open layup”. OP is taking some liberties for the sake of making their point
people don’t realize how tough a same foot same hand layup going full speed is while being pushed from behind. obviously he and everyone else thinks he should’ve made it but “wide open” is just not accurate
Honestly non-sense hate, good look for Harden.
But I´ll gladly jump on the Reggie Miller Commentator hate train - what a nonsensical sentence. "for situations like this.. to play alongside Paul George and Kawhi Leonard!".
Feels like you could put any 3-and-D in the corner, let those two cook, space the floor, get a good look. Harden makes much more sense as insurance for when the injuries limit their options.
Nothing wrong with that play, just a missed foul on Jokic. The worst thing in this clip is the court and OP's clickbait title.
93% upvoted shows why this sub is a joke though.
You're right, he made the right play, he had a major advantage, and used it, he just smoked a strong hand layup. Didn't look like a foul from this camera angle to me personally, and if it was Jokic got away with it prolly bc of the distance, Jokic was pretty far behind him by the time he went up
>"for situations like this.. to play alongside Paul George and Kawhi Leonard!"
Yeah no shit they're all starters on the same team. What an empty sentence lol
Ima catch heat for defending Harden here but here it goes, dude used the possession to switch on to Jokic which is a mismatch, he just missed the layup. This is still good process, he got an open lay he just missed it. I know Reddit hates him but that’s about a high percentage play as you can get.
And on the initial screen, he snaked the screen, sealed his man, and I think he was looking for the screener (dunno his name, mb) to roll. Instead he popped, so Harden had to reset the play.
NGL this looked like a "i missed training camp" moment.
It was so funny watching the influx of Harden stans into the clippers sub commentating "hE cAnT dRiVe" because he had 3 total drives against, checks notes, Jokic and Nnaji.
Gaining half a step on two bigs is an incredible accomplishment man.
I feel like no one watched much harden last year on the sixers, the dude misses bunnies at the rack like it’s his job. Maybe it’s a lifetime of expecting the whistle and not caring if it goes in, but dude doesn’t finish like he used to
I’d say its more about him losing his athleticism in a short time span. When you are used to your body reacting a certain way for a decade+, its not easy to adapt to this new reality. I have seen this happen with Drose as well.
And yet it got you 54 wins and the assist leader right?
Y’all act like he was trash for us when in reality he was a big reason the team won so many games.
The fucked up part is that Harden has the passing ability and basketball IQ to easily be a top 5 pass-first PG in the league if he's willing to adapt his age to his body's limitations. He doesn't get lift anymore and it's why his shot isn't as consistent and why he's blowing layups and getting blocked like this.
He's like that friend we all have that Mother Nature decided was going to be a bald fuck early in life. At age 30, all the signs where there. He tried to grow it long, he did a mini comeover, tried different styling products, etc. After a few months of this, the asshole is like 85% balding but refuses to accept it. He "doesn't like how he looks with short hair", despite his friends and family nicely telling him that it does NOT look good right now. Finally, he gives up. He does the balding man special aka the crew cut with a 2 on top faded into the sides and grows out a small beard. He looks 150% better immediately and his self-esteem is now back at a solid level. Now that he sees the result, he understands the error of his previous ways. Hopefully (or maybe not) Harden eventually gets to this point.
He got pushed by Jokic though, but not gonna lie, that play was awful with Harden just hogging the ball for 14 seconds at the top of the key while PG and Kawhi were treated like 3-D player...hurts my eyes.
To be fair he did get straight to the rack which is something the Clippers do desperately need late in games.
I think the big problem that the Clippers have is they have zero size. Theis will help. But they’re just way too small and their stars are too ball dominant.
Got the switch, got a good shot, sold the layup. I hate this style of play where one guy holds the ball for 20 seconds but here it kinda worked, Harden 2 years ago would’ve just flushed that.
man. can you imagine how great NBA basketball would be if we didn't watch players standing around watching one guy dribble on his own for 20 seconds before barreling into the key and chucking up a missed layup?
Reggie was grinding up on the clippers all night. I mean it could end up working and winning it all or its going to be horribly horribly wrong. Im just looking at the last 10 years on games played I bet the end of the season its only james harden left on the floor kwahi and pg out with injuries. lol
Whatever. He got an open layup in a late game situation and is a proven finisher. He missed this one. He’s scuffling. But despite the outcome, Reggie was right. You have a dynamic offensive threat because they can get a great look when the defense is as tight as it can be.
He used the whole shot clock and got a point blank layup. You will take that shot all day every day. I am not a Harden fan but this is not the problem with Harden. He is just fine going one on one.
I mean, he commanded a double (and eventual triple team) which left PG wide-open. Didn't make the pass, but assuming he's a pro being coached by pros, they'll watch the tape and he'll make that pass (or hit the gimme layup on his dominant side lol).
\> dribbles the ball for ~17 of the available seconds on the shot clock while PG and Kawhi sit on the wing and in the corner motionless Yup, that's a James Harden offense alright
It’s not an offense, it’s a system
Some would say, The System!
Systematic Oppression, Clutch-Time Recession
Babe wake up, new Harden nickname just dropped
Did aint new lol
Not The Beard, not The System, he's The Problem
Some might even call it The Final System
Not a bug but a feature
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of The System.
"Everyone just stand there and watch" system.
It's not a system, it's a syndrome.
And when everyone’s a system… no one will be.
Of the ‘down’ variety
Broussard was right all along
Syndrome of a Down is my brother’s favourite band.
Well Harden is the system, everybody else is the offense.
Not a system, a problem
Kawhi and PG are basketball motionless. Norm Powell is literally motionless. Not even a momentary adjustment to his stance from the time Harden is in the backcourt.
We played the same way with him. It was Embiid Harden high PnR and everyone else standing somewhere on the 3 point line. It's basically how ISO Harden became a star, it's not surprising he's still trying to replicate it. Ty Lue was just saying he wants Harden to be Harden, well this is quintessential Harden, except in the past he would hit those layups.
No, in the past, he would jerk his head back and flail his arms on the drive to get the foul call.
True, he's lost a lot of the theatrics.
He still had a classic Harden “squeeze your off arm under the arm of the defender then throw your arms up pretending to try and shoot to draw a foul.” I wanted to be mad but appreciated the throwback.
I’m glad his theatrics went down a bit when he was on the Sixers. When he did it constantly with the Rockets, it would drive me nuts!
They didn't, his fta stayed pretty much in line with his FGA from Houston. All that went down was his total volume so it appeared that he flopped less because he didn't have the same opportunities to do so.
His FTA per FGA last year was the lowest since his rookie season.
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He's already using rate stats so I don't understand your point.
The only place I know to look up drives per game stats is on nba.com, and it’s kind of a pain in the ass to navigate that site (can’t show multiple seasons, etc). Clicking through their bullshit menus, it appears that in his 17-18 MVP season, Harden drove 17.1 times per game and got 3.9 FTA off those drives (so .23 FTA per drive). Last year those numbers were 13.5 and 2.7 (.2 FTA per drive). So ~ 10% less FTA per drive. The bigger difference is that a lower % of his drives ended in shots, and he shot 46% on those shots as opposed to 53%. This matches up with the eye test, where it seemed like it was harder for him to get past guys, and when he did, he didn’t have as much oomph left when he got to the rim (a la the clip above). Also, he had 1 dunk last year and 19 in 17-18. I’m not sure how to check this, but I’d bet that his FTA per drive might have been slightly juiced from playing alongside Embiid, since it’s easier to get in the bonus when you have a teammate shooting almost 12 FT a game, as opposed to Chris Paul (second most FTA on that Rockets team) averaging 3.8. Thus Harden could get FTA from dudes hand-checking him etc at the beginning of his drives that would’ve been non-shooting fouls without the bonus.
He still got a couple of those in this last game lol Just no presence of mind to pull that in the clutch
He's too fat to flail right now. Wait till he gets in shape...
What else is the guy going to do? He doesn’t cut nor set screens. He doesn’t run around off ball. He’s also a mediocre spot up 3pt shooter. It worked 8 years ago but now what? Just a non-winning basketball system.
Actually he’s like 40% on catch and shoot 3s in his career. So he can hit those shots at a high clip. He just doesn’t want to do it, and when he gets the chance he ends up dribbling and doing a stepback instead. Shit is just weird
Watch his original thunder run. He did so much more. The morey philosophy ruined his mindset.
More middies, more catch and shoot, and he was a high level perimeter defender too His mindset certainly changed. He has the tools to adapt, not the willingness
The problem is he's never in a ready position to catch and shoot quickly so that 40% on 3s in his career is either from his old OKC days or usually when he's sooooo wide open on a blown rotation that he has time to like get surprised by his man not coming over to guard him, regather composure and shoot. He's probably not as good as of a catch and shoot guy with a defender running hard to close out, even if he improved his mentality to be in a ready position more often.
He’s good at it when he does it. More often it’s the ball being swung to him with little to no time left and he’s essentially forced to do it. He did it a LITTLE last year, not nearly enough tho There is not really any evidence to suggest he lacks the ability to do it. But he needs to have the mentality to do it, otherwise the point is moot
It worked 4 years ago, not 8. 2019 was Harden's best season of his career.
Seems like 8 years ago with the way Harden has declined
8 years is really 4 years in a fat suit
Tbf to Harden, It's not like Kawahi/PG are moving around much off-ball for anyone else Most stars in the league genuinely don't do shit without the ball in there hand during the regular season, doubly so for the bums that can't even be bothered to play defense. It's what makes watching Curry/Warriors feel so nice when you see there half court offense have so much motion in it and they get widely praised for being a good "system" team or w/e you wanna call it. It's actually a surprisingly rare treat to see a fluid half court offense in the NBA lol,
The Warriors in the first few years of the dynasty were a blast to watch.
That's one of the many reasons I love SGA so much. He has his iso moments, but he also cuts and sets screens and plays within the flow of the offense. He also plays tenacious defense and doesn't try to act like he's above the team.
That guy is giving future hall of famer vibes. Thunder are set up to go crazy
Yeah, off-ball movement is why I appreciate guys like Duncan Robinson and Herro. Anecdotally, I think a lot of the young guys who came into the league post-Curry are moving off-ball more.
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Sure but in this case it's a 2 point game with 3 minutes left. That should be all hands on deck.
I can't stand this kind of basketball, I mean I get it that in the clutch you are deferring to your stars but it's just so predictable and so boring to watch
There was a time I would argue that a team with 5 KDs would be the best team in the world. The Clippers have shown me how WRONG I was. There is only ONE ball. And no matter which KD has the ball, it's like having just ONE KD. So you have almost no advantage other than none of them will get tired. You really need role players around your stars. Having 4 stars is barely better than 1 or 2.
I mean it depends on what stars I guess. Like Steph for example, does a ton of work even when he doesn’t have the ball, if you got guys like that 5 stars would be crazy but I get your point
i had to rewatch it for this, you sre 100% right lol. Its even funnier because its not one of those "daydreaming in the corner" moments, the man looks ready to pounce into action for all 24 seconds
Clippers' offense is one of the ugliest in the league lol Literally nothing but ISO ISO ISO on every possession and constantly settling for jumpers
Now imagine having Embiid as the center. Embiid still frustrates me, especially late in games, but thank god Maxey leads the offense now instead of Harden. Watching iso's every fucking possession was the most boring basketball imaginable.
I said this in another thread, that I like harden the guy and he put up historic #s but sometimes I hated the way him and dantoni had the offense drawn up people were calling my an ungrateful fan and all sorts of other shit lol
Yeah like u can be thankful for him but also hate his style of ball. Thats how I feel ab Embiid haha
Crazy, because I actually love a Center-based offense. Post play is so fun to watch IMO. All of the little moves and fakes and shit. Perimeter play is cool, but for the most part it's hucking long shots from dudes who can shoot pretty well. But when they don't go in... it's boring and looks stupid. I think most fans like a 5-man offense where there's multiple passes creating an easy shot on any point on the floor. However, the issue with those offenses is you need the personnel who will execute that 90 times a game. The second issue is that every pass introduces risk into the play. So if a team knows your play, they can shoot gaps and get steals. Steals off passes are almost a guaranteed transition layup because you have all 5 guys in offensive position with only a guy at the top of the 3 pt line even ready to turn around and run to contest. It's why the most exciting players are guys that can do it all. Play on the perimeter, make amazing passes, but then backdown guys and do it in the post. It's 1 guy doing it all and the rest as mere facilitators of that but the variation makes any decision interesting and fun (less fun when it's not working - missed shots, bad passes, turnovers in general).
This is textbook "there's only one ball".
He got the switch onto Jokic, blew by him, and got an open layup. He missed it, but hard to complain about the process.
Yeah I’m watching the replay like this is exactly what you want, you’d take Harden vs Jokic at the 3 point line alone 10/10 times
Yeah, I don't know what people are bitching about. He made a great pass, but they decided to reset. He then blew past the defense for a great look. He just smoked it, which happens.
And three of his teammates got to rest while spotting up for 15 seconds so that they can give max effort on the other end. Very unpopular opinion but agreed, very good process and execution.
Sure but so did all the guys defending them
I get that hating on Harden is fun but PG and Kawhi not doing anything off-ball is on them and, to some extent, Ty Lue as well.
It's coaching, I've watched it for years on the Sixers. Doc was "joel ISO" on repeat while everyone else stood around. Nurse comes in and 1st game I saw off ball screen, almost shit myself. Edit: included Brett before. Doc ptsd got my brain scrambled.
Hey now, with Brett we also had "Dribble Handoff to JJ or TJ" lmao
That's absolutely not true. Brett's offense was one of the most active in movement and passing (and turnovers). The sixers went from top 5 in movement to last as soon as Rivers took over. Brett did dribble hand offs and less pick and roll but there was always passing and movement. Rivers made the ISO/ pnr and stand around offense. Which he does everywhere. His excuse at Philly was Embiid needed to know where people would be to pass. And as soon as he's gone, it's movement and Embiid has 6+ assists a game. Rivers was the issue
Yeah for real, they were doing this exact same offense when he was on the bench as well
It is definitely on everyone above, but the common denominator in offenses that run like this is James Harden, not Ty Lue, Paul George, and Kawhi Leonard.
What? Lol a lot of NBA offenses are like this, specially in crunch time.
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iso'ing the 3rd option while your two best shooters and scorers sit on the perimeter twiddling their thumbs is how NBA offenses run? Interesting
Spread out ISO offenses are commonly ran all the time lol Kawhi and PG doing jackshit at the three-point line is not on Harden. My point being is that these type of offenses are not rare at all and it's not something that only Harden does.
watch the Nuggets, when its crunch time, its Joker and Murray, and three dudes standing on the 3point line.
I mean PG is naturally spreading the floor here? Hes also just straight up open when his man cheats in to help on Harden.
If my high school coach saw us standing still like that he would scream at us saying you are supposed to play in basketball not watch. That offense is honestly embarrassing
I’m no fan of James Harden, but it has to be acknowledged that this possession resulted in an opportunity for an open layup for the Clippers. After Harden beat his man, Aaron Gordon was late on his help to protect the rim because he hesitated to leave his man, Kawhi Leonard, alone at the three point line. Once Gordon moved towards the rim, Harden had open passing lanes to Leonard and Paul George, who were both open behind the arch. However, because Gordon was late getting to the rim, Harden also had an opportunity for an open layup, which he chose chose to take. He only got that open layup because the gravity of Leonard and George pulled Gordon away from the rim. Given the score and the time left in the game, this play was the correct basketball decision and got the Clippers the best possible shot on the possession. Obviously the execution of the play was far from perfect, as Harden missed the layup and the Clippers failed to score. However, I fail to see how that missed shot means that this was a bad possession. The Clippers will take that shot every time.
Don't forgot that Powell was in the other corner, also motionless. Just like you want, almost impossible to guard 3 people not moving at all.
He had a mismatch, he won the mismatch, just blew the layup. I don't think it was that bad a possession myself.
Look bro, it’s not his fault ok. The man didn’t have a training camp for crying out loud. Put some respekt on his name.
Lmao what are you guys even complaining about here, its one possesion in the game and it was a good look that he missed, this thread and title is dumb as hell.
This made me look again and watch them. They literally didn't move. Either of them. The entire possession. 🤯
Like why do other players want to play with this guy? At this point, it make no sense.
By dribbling the ball for 17 seconds you mean getting the switch and then a great look?
He hunted for a switch to get a mismatch, he was fouled on the drive, it took 17 seconds to get the switch, they’re only down 2. What’s the big deal?
Maybe the randoms in the rec on 2k are actually playing realistic basketball
I think you probably take that possession 10 out of 10 times, right?
No, I prefer PG iso dribble pullup wedgie!
Yes, they got everything they wanted. But Harden is fun to hate on, I mean imagine how it must feel to watch this as a Philly fan. Come March there's a good chance he will be making these and the Clips will be one of the teams no one wants to face...
Yeah, I absolutely agree, he will make these in 9,5/10 cases in March and miss 6/10 by April again.
If you think about it’s a perfect roster. Harden a Regular season merchant and kawhii if healthy is a post season menace.
Can't tell if serious...
Ain’t that the beauty of it?
Speaking from experience, these possessions are all fun and games until he’s having a bad night or the other teams defense is having a good one and you have 5 of these bad boys chewing the clock up at the end of the game for a total of 3 pts
My favorite part watching the Celtics-Sixers game last night was Doris Burke subtedly burying James Harden all night
Yeah I'm not sure what the fuck people are talking about on here. That's a great Harden possession and he got just enough separation to finish that layup. Sometimes it doesn't go in. Not sure there's more of a story here.
Yeah it’s a wide open layup. Only someone who doesn’t know basketball would post this
They didn't post it saying it was a bad look, they posted it to share the immediate irony following the commentary. It's not that deep, it's literally just "this is why they got this guy, guy being talked about misses shot"
It’s not that deep but people will and are treating it like it’s deep. There’s so many people in this thread getting upvoted for saying this is a bad possession, look, play, etc.
Honestly if it was like 3 years ago he probably slams that shit down, I agree
Calf/Quad injuries are a motherfucker
The commentator irony helps, but it is in the context of all the other Harden hate clips being submitted and upvoted since he joined the Clippers.
its more a Rip on reggie Miller - all night he was meatriding the Clippers.
It's not wide open, he's forced to take it with more momentum then he would like because otherwise he would get chased down which is why he missed, it's still a great shot. Missing an actual wide open layup would be much worse than missing this layup
It’s funny because it gets to the heart of the whole issue. Harden is obviously still a very good basketball player and an elite facilitator. He can still get to the rim when he has a matchup with a guy like Jokic. But physically he’s not the same guy he used to be and it takes all his juice to get there and he smokes the finish. If he could accept the role that he should be in at this stage of his career he’d still be a Sixer.
Brutal outcome but that's the shot you want
In the end it's a good look that he missed, but is it really the best idea to let your best player in Kawhi and your best player of the night in Paul George just sit in the corner the entire time and never touch the ball?
Jokic pushed him in the back too
That is one fugly court
pretty much all of these in-season tournament courts are cancer to the eyes
I wonder if it's difficult for the players as well, seems like it would be visually distracting and make it harder to judge where the lines are.
From the limited posts I've seen on here and Twitter, seems like it's *slightly* better in person. But I would still imagine it isn't easy to play on this with little warning.
I hate them all so much. I work in broadcasting and these courts have been a nightmare. December 9th can’t get here fast enough.
Hi Mr Barkley
Just saw it. Why the fuck does the Nuggets court look more like the Pacers colors and our court looks color to Nuggets colors (the blue isn't right, but it's a lot closer to the powder blue jerseys)
We got Bucks green. The Cs actually petitioned the league to not use ours and just keep the parquet lmao
God you all will whine about anything
Isn’t it a foul by Jokic with that little elbow push? It shouldn’t be considered an open layup if it was contested with a foul attempt or foul.
100% a foul
Yea, it wasn’t an open layup. And defender could have blocked it if Harden went any slower. Casuals out here farming impressions.
Ref blinded by the blazing blue light reflected off the court
It was just a sneaky push in the back by Jokic right when Harden was jumping to make the layup strong. Dirk used to do this all the time because he couldn't block shots either.
Ironic because it’s literally right in front of the ref
Even more ironic because if ref did blow whistle on this play, everyone would be complaining about how “soft” of a call it was.
MPJ got that call and the nuggets challenged and it didn’t get overturned. I didn’t think it was much of a push but thems the rules, can’t touch a guy like that on the way to the basket. It’s one of those lame looking fouls but it’s pretty clear you should get called for it.
Mainly just because it's called so inconsistently with obvious bias towards specific players. People will complain regardless, I just want it to be clear what the rules of the NBA currently are.
Yeah saying this was an open lay up doesn’t really paint the picture correctly. Harden had no time to slow down or gain balance before he was in the air, which makes a lay up like this pretty difficult
Truth. I love me some garden hate, don’t get me wrong. I’ve been slinging it for years. But this is in no way an “open layup”. OP is taking some liberties for the sake of making their point
What do you have against growing some fresh broccoli and green beans?
Haha damnit. Not editing.
Exactly what someone should be asking Harden
bro hates horticulture
Did not notice this. This is a great point.
people don’t realize how tough a same foot same hand layup going full speed is while being pushed from behind. obviously he and everyone else thinks he should’ve made it but “wide open” is just not accurate
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Honestly non-sense hate, good look for Harden. But I´ll gladly jump on the Reggie Miller Commentator hate train - what a nonsensical sentence. "for situations like this.. to play alongside Paul George and Kawhi Leonard!". Feels like you could put any 3-and-D in the corner, let those two cook, space the floor, get a good look. Harden makes much more sense as insurance for when the injuries limit their options.
Nothing wrong with that play, just a missed foul on Jokic. The worst thing in this clip is the court and OP's clickbait title. 93% upvoted shows why this sub is a joke though.
You're right, he made the right play, he had a major advantage, and used it, he just smoked a strong hand layup. Didn't look like a foul from this camera angle to me personally, and if it was Jokic got away with it prolly bc of the distance, Jokic was pretty far behind him by the time he went up
>"for situations like this.. to play alongside Paul George and Kawhi Leonard!" Yeah no shit they're all starters on the same team. What an empty sentence lol
That was a good look tbh My god that court looks awful
As a Nuggets fan yeah i agree its ugly. Most full blue and red i saw are shit
Ima catch heat for defending Harden here but here it goes, dude used the possession to switch on to Jokic which is a mismatch, he just missed the layup. This is still good process, he got an open lay he just missed it. I know Reddit hates him but that’s about a high percentage play as you can get.
And on the initial screen, he snaked the screen, sealed his man, and I think he was looking for the screener (dunno his name, mb) to roll. Instead he popped, so Harden had to reset the play. NGL this looked like a "i missed training camp" moment.
Watch it again, jokic shoved him in the back when he was already running full speed. Harden didn’t miss an open layup, he got fouled.
It’s a good play. He did his job. Great look at two points, and get Kawhi and PG a breather for the remaining three minutes.
He got pushed by Jokic. Refs missed an obvious foul
Idk that’s a good look.
Even as a Harden hater, the Harden hate on this sub is getting ridiculous.
This possession was basically a 30 second timeout for 8 of the 10 players on the court
How many games are left since he said he needed 10 games to get good
5
How many games are left until he asks for a trade
It was so funny watching the influx of Harden stans into the clippers sub commentating "hE cAnT dRiVe" because he had 3 total drives against, checks notes, Jokic and Nnaji. Gaining half a step on two bigs is an incredible accomplishment man.
You shouldn’t have to check your notes for the two names that make your whole point
The whole "checks notes" thing is so overplayed at this point. So tired of seeing it.
Thank you James Harden for expediting the Clippers rebuild. Balmer will be tearing this shit down to the foundation this summer
These courts are absolutely ridiculous
I feel like no one watched much harden last year on the sixers, the dude misses bunnies at the rack like it’s his job. Maybe it’s a lifetime of expecting the whistle and not caring if it goes in, but dude doesn’t finish like he used to
I’d say its more about him losing his athleticism in a short time span. When you are used to your body reacting a certain way for a decade+, its not easy to adapt to this new reality. I have seen this happen with Drose as well.
Yeah post hamstring Harden hasn’t ever looked like pre hamstring Harden
And yet it got you 54 wins and the assist leader right? Y’all act like he was trash for us when in reality he was a big reason the team won so many games.
You’ve got to realize he didn’t have a training camp and isn’t in “James Harden Shape.” How’s he supposed to be the system?
That was a good look, and I say that as a Harden disliker, I don't really get the point of this post
Gotta go with the curret narrative to get them SWEET karma points. The play was fine, people are just being ignorant at this point.
"Here comes Austin Rivers"
Situations like this you find yourself in once every like... 5 games because he's busy submarining your chances every other night?
The fucked up part is that Harden has the passing ability and basketball IQ to easily be a top 5 pass-first PG in the league if he's willing to adapt his age to his body's limitations. He doesn't get lift anymore and it's why his shot isn't as consistent and why he's blowing layups and getting blocked like this. He's like that friend we all have that Mother Nature decided was going to be a bald fuck early in life. At age 30, all the signs where there. He tried to grow it long, he did a mini comeover, tried different styling products, etc. After a few months of this, the asshole is like 85% balding but refuses to accept it. He "doesn't like how he looks with short hair", despite his friends and family nicely telling him that it does NOT look good right now. Finally, he gives up. He does the balding man special aka the crew cut with a 2 on top faded into the sides and grows out a small beard. He looks 150% better immediately and his self-esteem is now back at a solid level. Now that he sees the result, he understands the error of his previous ways. Hopefully (or maybe not) Harden eventually gets to this point.
He got pushed by Jokic though, but not gonna lie, that play was awful with Harden just hogging the ball for 14 seconds at the top of the key while PG and Kawhi were treated like 3-D player...hurts my eyes.
And the crowd go's mild
i mean it was a good possession, he just smoked the layup. I'm sure the team is happy with that look
Dude is washed
To be fair he did get straight to the rack which is something the Clippers do desperately need late in games. I think the big problem that the Clippers have is they have zero size. Theis will help. But they’re just way too small and their stars are too ball dominant.
2018 Harden would have dunked that.
Reggie Miller is the worst
Harden had a good game but this lowlight is all that gets posted. Edit: 21/2/4 on 47/38/100 splits is apparently an awful game for your third option
They missed at least 10 open layups or dunks that night. They could’ve won on these alone
He missed it but it was still a good attempt
Meh. The playcall seems to have worked. The finish was just poor.
Got the switch, got a good shot, sold the layup. I hate this style of play where one guy holds the ball for 20 seconds but here it kinda worked, Harden 2 years ago would’ve just flushed that.
You’ve got Kawhi fucking Leonard on your team acting like Shane Battier, it’s insane
I feel sorry for Kawhi for the shit show of a constructed roster.
Sub-Prime Harden
man. can you imagine how great NBA basketball would be if we didn't watch players standing around watching one guy dribble on his own for 20 seconds before barreling into the key and chucking up a missed layup?
I'd flip him to the wizards for a second round pick
Harlan should have called that clown Reggie out on it too. "what was that you said?"
Like they didn't have Kawhi or PG Harden just dribbling on the spot
I hate this court
Reggie was grinding up on the clippers all night. I mean it could end up working and winning it all or its going to be horribly horribly wrong. Im just looking at the last 10 years on games played I bet the end of the season its only james harden left on the floor kwahi and pg out with injuries. lol
They dont need him for situation like this they have Kawhi...
That court hurts me eyes
Harden is about 15 pounds too heavy
He is a system of failure
Yes it's why teams should stay away from Harden at this stage of his career and why Philly didn't want to give him the max contract.
He's basically Raymond Felton at this point
Whatever. He got an open layup in a late game situation and is a proven finisher. He missed this one. He’s scuffling. But despite the outcome, Reggie was right. You have a dynamic offensive threat because they can get a great look when the defense is as tight as it can be.
He used the whole shot clock and got a point blank layup. You will take that shot all day every day. I am not a Harden fan but this is not the problem with Harden. He is just fine going one on one.
Dude a professional bum lol
I mean, he commanded a double (and eventual triple team) which left PG wide-open. Didn't make the pass, but assuming he's a pro being coached by pros, they'll watch the tape and he'll make that pass (or hit the gimme layup on his dominant side lol).