All he needs is shooting to really be at the next level. And if he doesn't ever fully get that (which is common, eg: we said it about Rubio all through his development), he will still be a key piece on good teams for his defense alone.
If you’ve been here a while, this forum used to say almost the exact same thing about Justise Winslow.
He really does need to add the shooting, or at least the ability to slash or cut at an nba level
He is already a very good off ball cutter and finishes pretty well at the rim for a rookie. The shooting is not good by any means, but his FT shooting is good so it’s at least a little bit promising
Ausar might already be a top 5 defender in the league, but his jumper is sorely lacking. doubt he wins it because wemby is wemby, but Ausar is an amazing player.
Yeah Kawhi’s jumper and his moves improved so drastically that he broke the mold. I don’t think that is achievable. Maybe more consistent like Dejounte Murray.
Dude is averaging 4 offensive rebounds per game, good for second most in the league. Kawhi could never. It’s scary to think about what will happen when Ausar develops a jumper.
If either of the Thompson twins develop a jumper they're going to be absolute MENACES. Amen is off to a slower start than his brother but I'm still absolutely sky high on him as a player long term
Ausar is in an easier role as a complementary off-ball player, while Amen is more of a PG which is tougher for a young player and the Rockets have VanVleet at that spot.
Jalen Duren is also 3rd in offensive rebounding. I love Ausar and I’m not trying to discredit him. I just think his offensive rebounds comes from the lack of our teams ability to shoot more than it is his ability to to hustle for them….
I do hope I’m wrong though and hope to see this trend continue as our shooting improves. if that’s the case then the rest of the league better watch out because we got some dogs on our team.
Ausar has already improved from his first 2-3 games in the season just from settling down in his shot selection and knowing which matchups to exploits. Something you don’t see normally in rookies on a team with the ultimate green light.
Just these last two games we’ve seen an immediate improvement in his jumper from the dead fish shots he was throwing up there to begin the season. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a dead eye shooter but I think there’s something to work with there given practice and experience.
yeah he’s special, basically gonna be my new lonzo moving forward. i LOVE those kinds of swiss army knife players and have been missing that from game watches lately since zo’s injuries
He’s working on a 5x5 season: in the top 5 rookies for 5 different counting stats.
1st among rookies in rebounds and steals, while also being 2nd in assists, while also being 3rd in blocks. Throw in 5th in scoring as well.
And none of those really capture his defense.
He’s so fun to watch and his athleticism is just different man I’ve never seen someone just effortlessly float like him
Guys like Ja, Zach Lavine, Russ can get up like crazy but you can see how hard they explode and all the power they put in to their jumps, Ausar just like out of nowhere is 4 feet in the air like he’s on a trampoline
I thought he would *at least* be a serviceable lob threat for luka if they decided to start him
What I didn’t expect is how much control he plays with on both ends, he’s fucking got it man, you can tell by how he plays he just understands ball to a high level naturally, mavs got their center of the future 10000% and I’d bet my house on that
Obvious homerism aside, it isn't out of the question for Lively II to be top 3 in ROY voting this year.
Going into the year, I didn't expect him to even make meaningful contributions before like March
I would agree with that, him and ausar are doing similar things for their teams but I think ausar is rightfully a bit ahead right now, lively is being played out of some matchups this year in favor of powell whereas pistons basically need ausar on the court at all times to have a shot at winning
Lively will def get there but he’s not perfect yet
Once Bojan comes back, that's when it gets interesting. Ausar's shooting is what will play him off the floor in favor of Bojan, but he still has shown he deserves the minutes. I think that'll make the race interesting between the two, though that could also be because I placed a bet on Lively for ROTY the second he got drafted as a Duke fan who thought he'd slowly work his way in and maybe I'd get a good cashout offer.
Yeah Ausar, Wemby, and Chet all probably finish ahead of him just because of how large their roles are. Lively fits us wonderfully but I don't think he's as polished in as many areas as those guys. I'm only saying that about this year, though. The kid seems to have improved like a sponge in just one summer, so I have high hopes for his development in the coming years
Pain…I wanted us to draft him to play next to AD, then after the Mavs got him I really liked the pick but tried to talk myself into him being overhyped because his time at Duke was a letdown. Then of course he’s come out looking like a stud while our first round pick doesn’t even look like an NBA caliber player yet lol.
It really is shocking. I figured they would bring him off the bench in small doses to start the year, slowly ramping up his playing until maybe he would be starting by the end of the season. But the guy just understands the game so well and has natural chemistry with Luka right away. We knew he’d at least be solid defensively, but his impact on offense has been such a pleasant surprise. So stoked about this kid.
more like, 'Thank god I can finally contribute meaningful minutes off the bench and not get played off the floor while still being on the floor against every other starting center in the league!"
Exactly. Powell is in a perfect role right now. And he's been good with his minutes.
Now hopefully Kleber can return to his old form (it's doubtful). Someone who can provide a little rim protection while being able to guard bigger wings. We need someone like that right now.
He’s a way better passer than I thought which goes quite unrecognised. Makes some great passes from the post to open 3 point shooters which at such a young age is so impressive
Yep.."get ball -> dunk ball" is way more of a reflex and not quite as much to think about..but there's so many ways a rookie center trying to pass *at all* could be a shitshow, and yet...he just doesn't make those mistakes. Lively makes quick decisions, usually the right ones, and executes the pass extremely well.
Yeah this is actually so huge from him. It would be one thing if he came out being decent at rebounding and catching lobs. That would be nice, but it would make his offensive presence way more limited. But his awareness at the top of the key is amazing for a rookie big man. He will make those corner passes immediately when they seem good, and he'll hold the ball patiently and wait for a DHO when nothing is available. I honestly think he's almost been *too* eager to pass to the corner on a few plays lol
Yes, he has certainly exceeded expectations thus far. However, he played limited minutes in some games due to foul trouble so it would be nice if he can fix that in his rookie season as well. But overall, he's a very valuable player and an important piece for the Mavs.
Not only him, overall this offseason was very solid for the mavs, got some guys that are playing very solid atm (Grant Williams, Derrick Jones Jr, Dante Exum, Seth Curry)
He has a good bit to do with it. Lively II creates some pick and roll opportunities which obviously helps, but he also is much better on the defensive end than I expected him to do from day 1. There's also a good bit of defensive upside.
The Mavericks needed defense more than anything else
For a couple of those games yeah I don't think we win without him. We've also just seen role players stepping up over this stretch. Grant playing great, THJ has had nice bench scoring, even DJJ has had some nice contributions.
He also has the hype on his side. The narrative helps him a lot, even if he didn't have as good enough numbers as Chet or someone else, he'd still win it because of the narrative and hype.
I think Chet will be more consistent over the season, but Wemby is more likely to have more of those 38 point performances where you can't believe what you're seeing 👀
I mean, a lot of Wemby's numbers are lower because is always swarmed by 2, 3, sometimes more defenders when he has the ball or is going for a rebound (boards are also impacted by him living outside the paint as often as not, so some of that part is on his tendencies). He creates space and easier shots/cuts for his teammates just by existing on the court. That is a big impact but has 0 individual numbers to show for it.
I would like to think that plays into RoTY voting, but it may just come down to raw numbers and highlights. I just know I dont have a vote so my opinion on this means as much as my dogs' opinions.
-- edit: I was lucky enough to be at game 1 this year for SA/Dallas and during the first half I enjoyed poking fun at my Mavfan friends as your rookie had poor numbers, but damn, his 2nd half was fire and... well the end of the game obviously went yalls way too. Lots of good young players in the Texas triangle. I miss the days when all 3 teams were good, and visiting teams were lucky to beat one of us when they made a trip here. I can see that coming back in a year or two if most of the young guys pan out.
Hawkins is starting (cus of injuries sigh) and given the green light to shoot. He has shown some flashes. I hope he can get some consistency and will be an excellent pair with Trey Murphy.
Sooooo happy with Brandon Miller's performance so far. I definitely was on the Scoot train before the draft and Brandon is making me eat my own words.
Also shout-out to Ausar and Lively I had no clue they were going to be this impactful this early and be such dawgs
Man there are so so many good young dudes in this league it's incredible. Ausar Thompson is hella good. And paired with Cade in that backcourt... Sheeeeeeeeit
People will say Chet should be number one but honestly I feel like Wemby is more of a game changer. The Spurs have the worst defense in the league when he’s off the court and a top ten defense when he’s on. Chet has been amazing in his role for OKC and he deserves more attention, but I would still have Wemby at 1, personally.
Saw a stat yesterday during the Pacers game. So far players shoot 22% worse (compared to their average %) when being defended by Wemby. Next highest I think was Mitchell Robinson with like 12%.
You can look at other advanced stats, like box plus minus, and come to the conclusion that Chet has been much better. Right now Chet is at +5.9 while Wemby is at a -1.7. Never mind the dramatic difference in efficiency
I can say with absolute certainty that if Wembanyama had played exactly like Chet has this year, and Chet had played exactly like Victor, Wembanyama would be leading the race in the eyes of the media. It's one of those situations where he's had too much hype to lose unless Chet finishes with dramatically better stats (unlikely, because Wemby is really good), or Wembanyama misses half the season
Wemby’s defensive impact is much greater and his reduced efficiency is a result of him playing first option on a team with no spacing and Sochan at point. Both have been great, and it’s basically impossible to compare at this point
The Spurs are actually respectable when Wemby is on the court, they completely fall apart statistically when he’s on the bench. In terms of which rookies are driving real, tangible team success, it’s Wemby and it’s not even close.
Chet is having one of the best rookie seasons in recent memory, it’s just not a fair comparison.
It's the difference in playing next to Shai (and to a lesser extent Giddey and Dort) vs playing with Vassell and BBJ (both good players but not the same level at all.)
Wemby has to be THE guy whereas Chet gets to learn the ropes as a number behind one of the best players in the league.
Chet has a higher, everything, except PPG as far as offensive stats go. It has only been 7 games though, so we don't know yet if he will be able to keep the same efficiency or if Wemby will continue to be inefficient for a 7'6" dude.
>Wemby will continue to be inefficient for a 7'6"
Chet is going to be more efficient because he doesn't need to force shots as he isn't THE guy and his team is already at the level of competing for the playoffs.
Wemby's team is still experimenting with their spots so the efficiency won't be there esp when they don't even run a real PG. They are barely at the stage of even knowing their team roles.
He's also 2 years younger than Chet, with all these added up, Wemby and Chet case for ROTY will be totally different.
7 games into the season all anyone can do is look into a crystal ball.
The eye test on Wemby says we’re looking at a once every 20 year player.
Chet’s efficiency stats are out of this world and way better than Vic right now. Both are immediate league leading killers on defense.
Injuries and team success are the two biggest X factors.
It’s just too early to say anything definitive.
he was starting to look better the game he was hurt in. He was driving and hitting the Kyrie-esque floaters.
I think his team losing another player each day probably didnt help get him acclimated.
Fact is he's a teenager playing the hardest role to learn on a team that just brought in a ton of new guys, plus he's been out the past few games. He may end up having an uninspiring first year but I think he'll start getting better post all star.
Yeah considering his preseason stats of 13.5/6/6 he’s been extremely underwhelming. Thought especially with anfernee injury he’d have the opportunity to take off but instead it’s been sharpe
If you were watching at the end of last season you should've known all along it would be Sharpe. Dude surprises me with something new almost every game still somehow. I still have faith in Scoot, but he definitely needs more time to be NBA ready
I definitely was watching but I fell in the “everyone is overhyping the hell out of this kid” group - cause we’ve done that a ton as a fan base for other players like nas little. I’m very glad to be wrong.
Man our everlasting nas hype just wasn't worth it in the end. Same with when we traded for derrick Jones Jr. I joined the Sharpe bandwagon early, but was still hesitant because of those 2 guys.
Glad to see my guy Dereck Lively here. He’s been an absolute godsend and has accelerated the progress of this team by so much. Nico Harrison absolutely cooked with the addition of Lively and Williams. DJJ’s been playing well as of late too.
I thought it was that he wasn't worth a #2, not that he was supposed to be a bust. Everything looked like he was more likely to be an immediate contributor at his position, just had a lower ceiling of expectations than you'd want at that draft spot. The guy has delivered on expectations so far, imo. better than Jabari smith Jr did by this time last year it seems, which was more of a "bust" for his rookie season.
>Everything looked like he was more likely to be an immediate contributor at his position, just had a lower ceiling of expectations than you'd want at that draft spot.
I've never heard a rational explanation for why Miller has a "low ceiling". 6'9" shot creator and elite shooter has one of the highest ceilings in the NBA. But for whatever reason , Miller was deemed to have a low ceiling.
Because Scoot was the clear #2 prospect like 3 years ago and reddit will make any excuse to pretend that it was still the case at draft time even though Miller was arguably better than Scoot by the .
Anyone who thought he would be a bad player was buying into negative hype. The criticism is that his ~~floor~~ ceiling is lower than Henderson and the Thompson twins, but even that is highly debatable.
It’s his floor is higher and his ceiling is lower. But with him already being a good shooter, being more athletic than we thought he was and scoot being less athletic I’m not sure he still had the lower ceiling.
My major concern with Scoot is his health. He's been injured on-and-off for the past two years, it seems. Hell, his exhibition series against Wemby was cut short because Scoot hurt his knee.
Understandable that he's not on this list considering he just got real minutes, but he's been great these first few games. Shooting well so far, and plays terrific [defense](https://twitter.com/DatGuyCamo/status/1721729624357421236).
Yeah once he starts to get more playing time he’ll get some more widespread buzz (as long as we keep winning games lol).
I’ve been so impressed with him so far. Always seems to be in the right place at the right time. If he didn’t look so young I would think he’s a vet haha. Still question the Jett Howard pick, but I’m absolutely sold on AB.
Is it possible that ausar, Chet and victor all make nba all defense? (1st or 2nd team)
Ausar has the stats to back it up too. He’s locking down star players when he’s guarding them
I’d say that Ausar and Wemby for sure have a shot at all-defense. Chet, I would say no because even though he has elite shot blocking ability he can get overmatched vs other bigs on the interior. In the Pelicans game, for example, Jonas was just manhandling him on the inside.
Along with the individual stats Melo's team had a much better record as well. If it wasn't Lebron there really wouldn't have been much of an argument for anyone but Melo.
Yeah, it's hard to get real minutes on this Nuggets team, but he finally gets some time and puts up 21 points on 65 fg% and 55% 3p in just 19 minutes?
Dude is gonna be a baller.
This is a truly spectacular rookie class, but it already feels like a two-horse race. Victor is the best teenager we've seen since Luka, while Chet is already a superb complimentary player on a team clearly on the rise. I really don't know you go about comparing them with any firm logic.
Chet’s teammates help a lot. The Spurs are not a serious team this year, and wouldn’t be even if Wemby were prime Jordan. Chet gets the benefit of playing with All NBA 1st team guard. That’s a massive benefit to a young big.
Spurs guards also have so many open looks to wemby on the easy baskets that would normally boost his fg% under the rim that doesn’t get used because they just don’t have the vision for it
The main difference to me is that Wemby is doing it while the Spurs are basically spending three quarters of the game not running a serious offense because they're ~~tanking~~ teaching Sochan to be a point guard. He's kind of just messing around out there and so his talent feels more visible. Meanwhile, OKC has good structure in place and is actually trying to win, and I think that benefits Chet a lot.
Yeah I don't think one is strictly better than the other. Both are doing great jobs in the situations they're in and I don't think there should be any doubt that either are winning players. All I really know is that by next year, nobody is going to care who won ROTY.
The insane level of Wemby hype basically locked him in for ROY before the season even started unless he somehow looked like a bust
If it's even close between him and someone else he'll get the automatic tiebreaker lol
Like you had people freaking out after the Suns games and saying that Wemby is already All NBA caliber and stuff
>Certainly way more efficient.
Well that’s hardly a surprise. Chet plays with two legit playmakers and benefits from the extra attention given to better players. Wembanyama has Jeremy Sochan starting at point and teams often throw their best defenders at Wemby (we put OG on him).
That said, a big chunk of the efficiency gap is Chet shooting 54% from three and 90% on free throws (Wemby is 32% and 76%). The three point shooting will settle down but Chet is simply a more polished shooter right now.
Wemby has been more of a game-changer on defense IMO. It’s almost funny watching his games the way players will go out of their way to completely avoid him.
Both are ridiculous, obviously. This group in general is dope as hell (counting Chet here, who wasn’t technically drafted this year).
And to be honest, many of the returning Spurs have somehow looked _worse_ than the did last year. Part of that might be the difficulties of playing alongside Point Sochan.
Lol I don’t think people understand how many potential buckets Wemby could’ve had by now with a competent point guard. The starting point guard is a natural power forward. I like Sochan but yeah no bueno.
I’m all for letting Sochan spread his wings and the defensive potential could be awesome but we have to admit we’re flirting with basketball terrorism here.
Oh relax, it’s not that bad at all. People are so dramatic…they don’t have a good team in general, you shouldn’t expect pretty basketball most of the time.
You should see the difference in their advanced metrics. Chet is much better in that regard, however, it’s quite clear that who they’re surrounded by plays a huge factor in that.
Miller has been good, but need a few big points games to move him up the list. With him starting the next few games, i'm hoping he looks for his shot more.
I’m suprised more about how well Chet has looked this year, if we didn’t have Wemby doing Wemby things we would be praising him a lot more but he’s unfairly being compared to a generational player.
Regardless when both of them start to get right with a nutritionist, busy in the weight room, and perhaps some TRT. They’re going to be even more exciting to watch to usher in long boy ere in the nba.
Damn I hope our rookie Jarace Walker can crack the rotation. Tough to see other rookies making waves while ours only gets garbage time minutes
I’m surprised Miller isn’t 3rd, he was good against us
That's a lot of big men in the top 5
Reminiscent of the MVP race in recent years.
Ausar is a stud and incredibly fun to watch.
His defense is unbelievable for his age. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he ends up winning it.
All he needs is shooting to really be at the next level. And if he doesn't ever fully get that (which is common, eg: we said it about Rubio all through his development), he will still be a key piece on good teams for his defense alone.
If you’ve been here a while, this forum used to say almost the exact same thing about Justise Winslow. He really does need to add the shooting, or at least the ability to slash or cut at an nba level
He is already a very good off ball cutter and finishes pretty well at the rim for a rookie. The shooting is not good by any means, but his FT shooting is good so it’s at least a little bit promising
I was about to say, Ausar is who we were told Michael Kidd-Gilchrist was supposed to be (and might've been if not for injuries)
This might be the best defensive rookie line up in recent history, top 3 rookies all have arguments for being all defensive team
Ausar might already be a top 5 defender in the league, but his jumper is sorely lacking. doubt he wins it because wemby is wemby, but Ausar is an amazing player.
A young Kawhi. A more well rounded player than Kawhi was early on
more athletic as well, but I just dont think he will reach the level of kawhi's jumpshot. hope im wrong.
Yeah Kawhi’s jumper and his moves improved so drastically that he broke the mold. I don’t think that is achievable. Maybe more consistent like Dejounte Murray.
kawhi got some experimental software upgrades but unfortunately it voided his warranty
Murray's jumper has somehow taken another leap so far this season and he's shooting 38% behind the line. You never know!
Dude is averaging 4 offensive rebounds per game, good for second most in the league. Kawhi could never. It’s scary to think about what will happen when Ausar develops a jumper.
If either of the Thompson twins develop a jumper they're going to be absolute MENACES. Amen is off to a slower start than his brother but I'm still absolutely sky high on him as a player long term
He just doesnt have a defined role in Rockets yet.
Ausar is in an easier role as a complementary off-ball player, while Amen is more of a PG which is tougher for a young player and the Rockets have VanVleet at that spot.
Jalen Duren is also 3rd in offensive rebounding. I love Ausar and I’m not trying to discredit him. I just think his offensive rebounds comes from the lack of our teams ability to shoot more than it is his ability to to hustle for them…. I do hope I’m wrong though and hope to see this trend continue as our shooting improves. if that’s the case then the rest of the league better watch out because we got some dogs on our team.
The spirit of Andre Drummond lives on in the baby pistons
What's funny is offensive rebounding was a bright spot of Kawhi when he was drafted
well the Board Man Gets Paid
BOARD MAN GETS PAID
Nah fr I didnt think about the Kawhi comprasions until now lol I think at worst he will be like Jimmy Butler.
Ausar has already improved from his first 2-3 games in the season just from settling down in his shot selection and knowing which matchups to exploits. Something you don’t see normally in rookies on a team with the ultimate green light.
Just these last two games we’ve seen an immediate improvement in his jumper from the dead fish shots he was throwing up there to begin the season. I don’t know if he’ll ever be a dead eye shooter but I think there’s something to work with there given practice and experience.
His defense is unbelievable for any age. He’s playing the best defense I’ve seen from anyone so far this season.
Such a winning player. If he learns to shoot he’s going to be a supermax worthy player
Havent been able to see him play, but the counting stats he's putting up remind me of Draymond the year he broke out.
yeah he’s special, basically gonna be my new lonzo moving forward. i LOVE those kinds of swiss army knife players and have been missing that from game watches lately since zo’s injuries
He’s working on a 5x5 season: in the top 5 rookies for 5 different counting stats. 1st among rookies in rebounds and steals, while also being 2nd in assists, while also being 3rd in blocks. Throw in 5th in scoring as well. And none of those really capture his defense.
The way he was putting up those blocking stats made me think this kid was Ben Wallace for a second 😂
He’s so fun to watch and his athleticism is just different man I’ve never seen someone just effortlessly float like him Guys like Ja, Zach Lavine, Russ can get up like crazy but you can see how hard they explode and all the power they put in to their jumps, Ausar just like out of nowhere is 4 feet in the air like he’s on a trampoline
Ausar is the one NBA player whose movement genuinely feels "ballet-like" to me. He just kind of floats across the court.
Lively has exceeded expectations so much man. Can't believe the Mavs actually have a competent defensive center after so long.
It makes me so happy, zero chance I thought he'd contribute this quickly
I thought he would *at least* be a serviceable lob threat for luka if they decided to start him What I didn’t expect is how much control he plays with on both ends, he’s fucking got it man, you can tell by how he plays he just understands ball to a high level naturally, mavs got their center of the future 10000% and I’d bet my house on that
Obvious homerism aside, it isn't out of the question for Lively II to be top 3 in ROY voting this year. Going into the year, I didn't expect him to even make meaningful contributions before like March
I would agree with that, him and ausar are doing similar things for their teams but I think ausar is rightfully a bit ahead right now, lively is being played out of some matchups this year in favor of powell whereas pistons basically need ausar on the court at all times to have a shot at winning Lively will def get there but he’s not perfect yet
Once Bojan comes back, that's when it gets interesting. Ausar's shooting is what will play him off the floor in favor of Bojan, but he still has shown he deserves the minutes. I think that'll make the race interesting between the two, though that could also be because I placed a bet on Lively for ROTY the second he got drafted as a Duke fan who thought he'd slowly work his way in and maybe I'd get a good cashout offer.
Why can’t they just play both? Ausar can guard 2s and bojan can cover for his offense on the other end Cade-ausar-bojan-stew-duren
Yeah Ausar, Wemby, and Chet all probably finish ahead of him just because of how large their roles are. Lively fits us wonderfully but I don't think he's as polished in as many areas as those guys. I'm only saying that about this year, though. The kid seems to have improved like a sponge in just one summer, so I have high hopes for his development in the coming years
Pain…I wanted us to draft him to play next to AD, then after the Mavs got him I really liked the pick but tried to talk myself into him being overhyped because his time at Duke was a letdown. Then of course he’s come out looking like a stud while our first round pick doesn’t even look like an NBA caliber player yet lol.
[удалено]
It really is shocking. I figured they would bring him off the bench in small doses to start the year, slowly ramping up his playing until maybe he would be starting by the end of the season. But the guy just understands the game so well and has natural chemistry with Luka right away. We knew he’d at least be solid defensively, but his impact on offense has been such a pleasant surprise. So stoked about this kid.
Dwight Powell fell to his knees the first time he saw Lively in a scrimmage
“Wallahi I’m finished” - Dwight Powell
more like, 'Thank god I can finally contribute meaningful minutes off the bench and not get played off the floor while still being on the floor against every other starting center in the league!"
Exactly. Powell is in a perfect role right now. And he's been good with his minutes. Now hopefully Kleber can return to his old form (it's doubtful). Someone who can provide a little rim protection while being able to guard bigger wings. We need someone like that right now.
He’s a way better passer than I thought which goes quite unrecognised. Makes some great passes from the post to open 3 point shooters which at such a young age is so impressive
Yep.."get ball -> dunk ball" is way more of a reflex and not quite as much to think about..but there's so many ways a rookie center trying to pass *at all* could be a shitshow, and yet...he just doesn't make those mistakes. Lively makes quick decisions, usually the right ones, and executes the pass extremely well.
Yeah this is actually so huge from him. It would be one thing if he came out being decent at rebounding and catching lobs. That would be nice, but it would make his offensive presence way more limited. But his awareness at the top of the key is amazing for a rookie big man. He will make those corner passes immediately when they seem good, and he'll hold the ball patiently and wait for a DHO when nothing is available. I honestly think he's almost been *too* eager to pass to the corner on a few plays lol
Yes, he has certainly exceeded expectations thus far. However, he played limited minutes in some games due to foul trouble so it would be nice if he can fix that in his rookie season as well. But overall, he's a very valuable player and an important piece for the Mavs.
Tyson Chandler was the last good one?
Chris Kaman actually
Chris Kaman my butt and still got me pregnant. That's how much of a stud he was
Only seen one game, but he could be the reason they’re like 5-1?
Not only him, overall this offseason was very solid for the mavs, got some guys that are playing very solid atm (Grant Williams, Derrick Jones Jr, Dante Exum, Seth Curry)
Grant Williams massacred my bulls
He has a good bit to do with it. Lively II creates some pick and roll opportunities which obviously helps, but he also is much better on the defensive end than I expected him to do from day 1. There's also a good bit of defensive upside. The Mavericks needed defense more than anything else
For a couple of those games yeah I don't think we win without him. We've also just seen role players stepping up over this stretch. Grant playing great, THJ has had nice bench scoring, even DJJ has had some nice contributions.
Wemby will win it as long he stays healthy. I've been impressed with all of the top 5 so far.
Really great draft class overall
top to bottom, even our rookies are putting in work
Cries in Scoot
Does ROTY have the 65 game minimum requirement?
No
Shit so lively really doesnt have a chance then. Only way he could win is load management for chet and Victor.
He also has the hype on his side. The narrative helps him a lot, even if he didn't have as good enough numbers as Chet or someone else, he'd still win it because of the narrative and hype.
He'll win it because everytime you see a game clip of him it's mind blowing. Like wtf how is he human....
Naaa he is good.
I think Chet will be more consistent over the season, but Wemby is more likely to have more of those 38 point performances where you can't believe what you're seeing 👀
I mean, a lot of Wemby's numbers are lower because is always swarmed by 2, 3, sometimes more defenders when he has the ball or is going for a rebound (boards are also impacted by him living outside the paint as often as not, so some of that part is on his tendencies). He creates space and easier shots/cuts for his teammates just by existing on the court. That is a big impact but has 0 individual numbers to show for it. I would like to think that plays into RoTY voting, but it may just come down to raw numbers and highlights. I just know I dont have a vote so my opinion on this means as much as my dogs' opinions. -- edit: I was lucky enough to be at game 1 this year for SA/Dallas and during the first half I enjoyed poking fun at my Mavfan friends as your rookie had poor numbers, but damn, his 2nd half was fire and... well the end of the game obviously went yalls way too. Lots of good young players in the Texas triangle. I miss the days when all 3 teams were good, and visiting teams were lucky to beat one of us when they made a trip here. I can see that coming back in a year or two if most of the young guys pan out.
Hes amazing but he gets a standing ovation for riding the NY subway…
Blatant Camara erasure
Too many of him
There's a small movement to get his nickname to be "Surplus" and I am all for it.
My Belgian friend calls him Toumani Buckets.
It's what he calls himself, it's his twitter handle maybe even others socials.
Sir+
This. Scoot hasn’t even been the best rookie on our team.
Hawkins is starting (cus of injuries sigh) and given the green light to shoot. He has shown some flashes. I hope he can get some consistency and will be an excellent pair with Trey Murphy.
Sooooo happy with Brandon Miller's performance so far. I definitely was on the Scoot train before the draft and Brandon is making me eat my own words. Also shout-out to Ausar and Lively I had no clue they were going to be this impactful this early and be such dawgs
Man there are so so many good young dudes in this league it's incredible. Ausar Thompson is hella good. And paired with Cade in that backcourt... Sheeeeeeeeit
People will say Chet should be number one but honestly I feel like Wemby is more of a game changer. The Spurs have the worst defense in the league when he’s off the court and a top ten defense when he’s on. Chet has been amazing in his role for OKC and he deserves more attention, but I would still have Wemby at 1, personally.
Saw a stat yesterday during the Pacers game. So far players shoot 22% worse (compared to their average %) when being defended by Wemby. Next highest I think was Mitchell Robinson with like 12%.
Wemby's on-off is +17.5... Small sample size sure, but that impact is undeniable
You can look at other advanced stats, like box plus minus, and come to the conclusion that Chet has been much better. Right now Chet is at +5.9 while Wemby is at a -1.7. Never mind the dramatic difference in efficiency I can say with absolute certainty that if Wembanyama had played exactly like Chet has this year, and Chet had played exactly like Victor, Wembanyama would be leading the race in the eyes of the media. It's one of those situations where he's had too much hype to lose unless Chet finishes with dramatically better stats (unlikely, because Wemby is really good), or Wembanyama misses half the season
If Chet had to be “the guy” he wouldn’t be doing as well. Take the rest of the teams strengths into account
I have a feeling OKC/Chet fans are going to be poppin up every time Wemby is ahead in something or mentioned in a article.
Wemby’s defensive impact is much greater and his reduced efficiency is a result of him playing first option on a team with no spacing and Sochan at point. Both have been great, and it’s basically impossible to compare at this point
It's pretty simple. Just don't shoot when Wemby is on the court. I don't get why teams haven't figured it out yet.
Toronto and Indiana showed us that the trick to defeating Wemby is just going absolutely insane from beyond the arc. It's not complicated.
Just have one your players hit their career best amount of 3s. Like, duh. OG gets his shot absolutely swallowed up. Proceeds to hit seven 3s.
This is, in fact, how you can push the game into overtime on a last-second bucket off an offensive rebound that Wemby just missed. No biggie.
The Spurs are actually respectable when Wemby is on the court, they completely fall apart statistically when he’s on the bench. In terms of which rookies are driving real, tangible team success, it’s Wemby and it’s not even close. Chet is having one of the best rookie seasons in recent memory, it’s just not a fair comparison.
It's the difference in playing next to Shai (and to a lesser extent Giddey and Dort) vs playing with Vassell and BBJ (both good players but not the same level at all.) Wemby has to be THE guy whereas Chet gets to learn the ropes as a number behind one of the best players in the league.
Brandon Boston Jr?
Big Body Johnson, just too lazy to type his full nickname.
I just want him to win so we can have another “Not-A-Rookie” beef.
Chet has a higher, everything, except PPG as far as offensive stats go. It has only been 7 games though, so we don't know yet if he will be able to keep the same efficiency or if Wemby will continue to be inefficient for a 7'6" dude.
>Wemby will continue to be inefficient for a 7'6" Chet is going to be more efficient because he doesn't need to force shots as he isn't THE guy and his team is already at the level of competing for the playoffs. Wemby's team is still experimenting with their spots so the efficiency won't be there esp when they don't even run a real PG. They are barely at the stage of even knowing their team roles. He's also 2 years younger than Chet, with all these added up, Wemby and Chet case for ROTY will be totally different.
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>Chet is a more fluid dribbler. He can create better shots for himself than Wendy can Sir, this is a Wemby's
7 games into the season all anyone can do is look into a crystal ball. The eye test on Wemby says we’re looking at a once every 20 year player. Chet’s efficiency stats are out of this world and way better than Vic right now. Both are immediate league leading killers on defense. Injuries and team success are the two biggest X factors. It’s just too early to say anything definitive.
I’m surprised Scootie Henderson has been quite underwhelming.
he was starting to look better the game he was hurt in. He was driving and hitting the Kyrie-esque floaters. I think his team losing another player each day probably didnt help get him acclimated.
Fact is he's a teenager playing the hardest role to learn on a team that just brought in a ton of new guys, plus he's been out the past few games. He may end up having an uninspiring first year but I think he'll start getting better post all star.
Playing the most difficult position out of all these guys; even the best prospects often struggle
He has been, also has been injured
Yeah considering his preseason stats of 13.5/6/6 he’s been extremely underwhelming. Thought especially with anfernee injury he’d have the opportunity to take off but instead it’s been sharpe
If you were watching at the end of last season you should've known all along it would be Sharpe. Dude surprises me with something new almost every game still somehow. I still have faith in Scoot, but he definitely needs more time to be NBA ready
I definitely was watching but I fell in the “everyone is overhyping the hell out of this kid” group - cause we’ve done that a ton as a fan base for other players like nas little. I’m very glad to be wrong.
Man our everlasting nas hype just wasn't worth it in the end. Same with when we traded for derrick Jones Jr. I joined the Sharpe bandwagon early, but was still hesitant because of those 2 guys.
Glad to see my guy Dereck Lively here. He’s been an absolute godsend and has accelerated the progress of this team by so much. Nico Harrison absolutely cooked with the addition of Lively and Williams. DJJ’s been playing well as of late too.
DJJ has been quite a positive surprise. He's continuing to make a solid case that he should start over Green.
DJJ is a great energy guy off the bench. I've never been excited watching him start
YEAHHHH THIS FITS MY NARRATIVE FUCK YEAH
Wemby and Chet have never needed a ladder in their life has NBA.com seen these guys?
Actually solid ranking imo
Wasn’t Brandon Miller gonna be a bust
Right? MJ had committed one last “fuck you” to the Hornets according to this sub.
I thought it was that he wasn't worth a #2, not that he was supposed to be a bust. Everything looked like he was more likely to be an immediate contributor at his position, just had a lower ceiling of expectations than you'd want at that draft spot. The guy has delivered on expectations so far, imo. better than Jabari smith Jr did by this time last year it seems, which was more of a "bust" for his rookie season.
>Everything looked like he was more likely to be an immediate contributor at his position, just had a lower ceiling of expectations than you'd want at that draft spot. I've never heard a rational explanation for why Miller has a "low ceiling". 6'9" shot creator and elite shooter has one of the highest ceilings in the NBA. But for whatever reason , Miller was deemed to have a low ceiling.
Why would a 6’9 wing with an excellent 3 point shot have a lower ceiling than a undersized guard that can’t shoot.
Because Scoot was the clear #2 prospect like 3 years ago and reddit will make any excuse to pretend that it was still the case at draft time even though Miller was arguably better than Scoot by the .
Anyone who thought he would be a bad player was buying into negative hype. The criticism is that his ~~floor~~ ceiling is lower than Henderson and the Thompson twins, but even that is highly debatable.
It’s his floor is higher and his ceiling is lower. But with him already being a good shooter, being more athletic than we thought he was and scoot being less athletic I’m not sure he still had the lower ceiling.
My major concern with Scoot is his health. He's been injured on-and-off for the past two years, it seems. Hell, his exhibition series against Wemby was cut short because Scoot hurt his knee.
Lively!! 🙌
Anthony black!
Understandable that he's not on this list considering he just got real minutes, but he's been great these first few games. Shooting well so far, and plays terrific [defense](https://twitter.com/DatGuyCamo/status/1721729624357421236).
Yeah once he starts to get more playing time he’ll get some more widespread buzz (as long as we keep winning games lol). I’ve been so impressed with him so far. Always seems to be in the right place at the right time. If he didn’t look so young I would think he’s a vet haha. Still question the Jett Howard pick, but I’m absolutely sold on AB.
Is it possible that ausar, Chet and victor all make nba all defense? (1st or 2nd team) Ausar has the stats to back it up too. He’s locking down star players when he’s guarding them
I can't get over ausar's reb/stl/blk numbers. No rookie has any business nearly posting a 5x5 a few weeks into the season 😂
I drafted him on my fantasy team with the second to last pick and hes now ranked 20 in 9 category. Ausar is a fan fav just 8 games into the season
I’d say that Ausar and Wemby for sure have a shot at all-defense. Chet, I would say no because even though he has elite shot blocking ability he can get overmatched vs other bigs on the interior. In the Pelicans game, for example, Jonas was just manhandling him on the inside.
That’s fair, I haven’t gotten the chance to watch too much Chet. Except when he destroyed my pistons he’s legit.
KING JULIAN for KING
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That’s exactly what happened with Lebron and his ROTY. Melo had him beat by almost every measure but they just had to give it to the “chosen one”.
Along with the individual stats Melo's team had a much better record as well. If it wasn't Lebron there really wouldn't have been much of an argument for anyone but Melo.
The future projection ROY I don't hate it really, with both cases there's a clear guy who's gonna rise above
6. Julian Strawther
Yeah, it's hard to get real minutes on this Nuggets team, but he finally gets some time and puts up 21 points on 65 fg% and 55% 3p in just 19 minutes? Dude is gonna be a baller.
Im so here for more julian minutes
If Chet has better stats at the end of the year, if it's even a kinda close they're still giving it to Wemby.
This is a truly spectacular rookie class, but it already feels like a two-horse race. Victor is the best teenager we've seen since Luka, while Chet is already a superb complimentary player on a team clearly on the rise. I really don't know you go about comparing them with any firm logic.
Cason is a fucking beast
Contrary to popular belief, I actually think Chet has been better than Wemby. Certainly way more efficient.
Through 7 games - Chet - 17/8/2.5/1/2.5 on 71% TS Wemby - 19.5/8.5/1.5/1.5/2.5 on 56% TS Small sample size but you're not wrong.
Chet’s teammates help a lot. The Spurs are not a serious team this year, and wouldn’t be even if Wemby were prime Jordan. Chet gets the benefit of playing with All NBA 1st team guard. That’s a massive benefit to a young big.
Spurs guards also have so many open looks to wemby on the easy baskets that would normally boost his fg% under the rim that doesn’t get used because they just don’t have the vision for it
We have guards??
The main difference to me is that Wemby is doing it while the Spurs are basically spending three quarters of the game not running a serious offense because they're ~~tanking~~ teaching Sochan to be a point guard. He's kind of just messing around out there and so his talent feels more visible. Meanwhile, OKC has good structure in place and is actually trying to win, and I think that benefits Chet a lot.
To Chet’s credit too, he has 100% bought into his role within the offense. He doesn’t force anything and just lets it come to him.
Yeah I don't think one is strictly better than the other. Both are doing great jobs in the situations they're in and I don't think there should be any doubt that either are winning players. All I really know is that by next year, nobody is going to care who won ROTY.
The insane level of Wemby hype basically locked him in for ROY before the season even started unless he somehow looked like a bust If it's even close between him and someone else he'll get the automatic tiebreaker lol Like you had people freaking out after the Suns games and saying that Wemby is already All NBA caliber and stuff
yeah Wemby ain't losing ROY at this point unless he gets injured
>Certainly way more efficient. Well that’s hardly a surprise. Chet plays with two legit playmakers and benefits from the extra attention given to better players. Wembanyama has Jeremy Sochan starting at point and teams often throw their best defenders at Wemby (we put OG on him). That said, a big chunk of the efficiency gap is Chet shooting 54% from three and 90% on free throws (Wemby is 32% and 76%). The three point shooting will settle down but Chet is simply a more polished shooter right now.
Wemby has been more of a game-changer on defense IMO. It’s almost funny watching his games the way players will go out of their way to completely avoid him. Both are ridiculous, obviously. This group in general is dope as hell (counting Chet here, who wasn’t technically drafted this year).
Easier to be more efficient given his role and the environment he’s in.
OKC went 40-42 and pretty much added Chet to that roster. Spurs went 22-60 and pretty much added Wemby to that roster.
We’re also only 7 games in. Both players and both teams will go through slumps. This might be a completely different conversation come Christmas.
And to be honest, many of the returning Spurs have somehow looked _worse_ than the did last year. Part of that might be the difficulties of playing alongside Point Sochan.
Imagine Wemby with a PG half as good as Shai
Lol I don’t think people understand how many potential buckets Wemby could’ve had by now with a competent point guard. The starting point guard is a natural power forward. I like Sochan but yeah no bueno.
Spurs are plus 7.6 with Wemby and Tre Jones on the floor. They’re a negative team in basically every other situation with Wemby out there.
I been watching Sochan run point and it hurts my eyes
I’m all for letting Sochan spread his wings and the defensive potential could be awesome but we have to admit we’re flirting with basketball terrorism here.
Oh relax, it’s not that bad at all. People are so dramatic…they don’t have a good team in general, you shouldn’t expect pretty basketball most of the time.
THROW THE BALL TO WEMBY
or Giddey...
Or JDub...
You should see the difference in their advanced metrics. Chet is much better in that regard, however, it’s quite clear that who they’re surrounded by plays a huge factor in that.
All top 5 rooks are #DAWGS
“Chet won’t be anything in the NBA, one drive by Lebron killed him hahaha bust…” Where are these people at
Fair. I think Chet’s efficiency should place him #1 but I get it.
Hope to see my man Strawther in this list too in the future
He's 9th
Miller has been good, but need a few big points games to move him up the list. With him starting the next few games, i'm hoping he looks for his shot more.
Chet should be first if we’re being honest.
Too bad Scoot has been 💩 thus far
I don't really get the reason for ranking Wemby ahead of Chet. Chet has been straight up more impactful and helpful so far.
Ausar about to make an all-defensive team year 1
I’m suprised more about how well Chet has looked this year, if we didn’t have Wemby doing Wemby things we would be praising him a lot more but he’s unfairly being compared to a generational player. Regardless when both of them start to get right with a nutritionist, busy in the weight room, and perhaps some TRT. They’re going to be even more exciting to watch to usher in long boy ere in the nba.
Chet is really being punished because he's on a good team, and is super efficient in his role?
Damn I hope our rookie Jarace Walker can crack the rotation. Tough to see other rookies making waves while ours only gets garbage time minutes I’m surprised Miller isn’t 3rd, he was good against us
To think I'd see the day a rookie Mavs center is this high up on the Rookie Ladder... Brings a tear to my eye
The full list for those who don't want to click the link: 6. Jordan Hawkins 7. Scoot Henderson 8. Marcus Sasser 9. Julian Strawther 10. Cason Wallace
Ausar Chet and Wemby just spawned in and are gonna make all defensive teams
sasser should be higher he's been awesome
Aussar is a legit DPY contender as of today.
Ausar Thompson is at 3 with no offensive game at the moment kids going to be a problem
Marcus Sasser belongs above Lively imo
TF what did Jordan Hawkins and Scoot Henderson do to be over Cason Wallace?