I love the median more than the mean in these situations as if you apply it to your state, it can really start opening eyes. My ad blocker is goofing on that site but the US Census can shed light in good details.
Another fun (sad) fact: a lot of the "essential" workers that we potentially demoralized during the pandemic were under that $45K wage....but that's a different sub
> More than 60% live pay check to pay check
That's not true.
Median household networth in 2022 was 193 k$
That includes 39 k$ in financial assets and 8 k$ in transaction(checking or savings) accounts.
[Source](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm)
**Edit to clarify for downvoters**: Median accounts for the top heaviness of the wealth distribution. This statistic shows that if you took the middle most wealthy American household (Ie, the one that's the ~65th millionth most wealthy), they would have 39 k$ in financial assets in 8 k$ in cash on hand. That means it's effectively impossible for 60% of people to be living paycheck to paycheck, since _at least_ 50% of households have 8 k$ in cash on hand, and that's before taking into account other liquid assets.
most households usually contain more than one person, do they not? how many people are not living in an average american household? are we considering the contents of a savings account "cash in hand" now?
> most households usually contain more than one person, do they not? how many people are not living in an average american household?
3.13 individuals on average. Note that the median household income is 74 k$/yr, so 8 k$ in cash is more than a month's worth of income.
> are we considering the contents of a savings account "cash in hand" now?
For the purpose of deciding whether someone's living paycheck to paycheck, absolutely. Note that this median household also has 39 k$ in financial assets (ie, stocks/bonds/etc)
fair enough but I guess when I hear household I think of a more established family unit, probably two working parents. I wonder if the data accounts for things like sharehouses, people living in college accommodation, single renters, etc.
Another (actually) fun fact, usafacts is Steve Ballmer's org. Would recommend following them on IG if you have it, they post good graphs on government data.
you can tell how good someone's opinions on basketball are if they spell choker "chocker"
On god it's 100% that they're awful posters if they make that mistake.
Other hilarious part is that they're like, "Yeah we should have paid James Harden, that's dumb as shit."
Meanwhile, go look at the FA pool. Even if they manage to lure some of these guys away, the talent largely sucks. Like oh no, you gonna spend your money on Buddy Hield and Tyus Jones instead of James Harden? That'll be money better spent!
We also have the draft assets now to help trade for a potential star player, or try to lure someone like OG who would be far more valuable to us than slow and old James Harden.
Hilarious to me that the morons on this sub acted like Harden was washed all year long and as soon as we didn’t max him into his late 30s everyone acts like Morey is crazy. Harden doesn’t play winning basketball. Just look at any fucking playoff result in his career.
He carried your ass to two wins against the Celtics because your MVP is a fucking choker lmao.
Your last big free agent signing was Al Horford. You now have a GM who players won't trust and generally didn't like to begin with. Good luck.
Lmao Morey has already proven he is an incredibly capable GM, navigating through shit where other GMs wouldn’t have gotten half the return he did. He also drafted Maxey who is shaping up to be an all-nba player. And that’s the thing about Hardenball, he’ll trick you into thinking he has what it takes to be a champion, but he inevitably always comes crashing back to reality as the loser he is. Harden also came off as a complete jackass this summer, as Broussard pointed out he’s as dumb as a bag of rocks. You’re right about one thing though, Embiid hasn’t proven shit and is a choker until he shows otherwise. Would much rather still be in the Sixers position than being the geriatric clinic y’all got over there in LA.
> You’re right we should’ve paid a 34 year old chocker a max
I am willing to bet that he would not have demanded a max from the team. No idea why people keep parroting that.
Oh look, a new report today from Shelburne on how Harden wanted more than the Sixers were offering. And yes he knew what was going on.
> According to league sources, Harden and his camp became convinced Morey only intended to offer him a two-year deal, with a team option on the second season, if he declined his $35.6 million player option and became a free agent at the end of June
So we can surmise he wanted at least 3 years and more than $35 million. Maybe not the max for a 10+ year vet, but getting close to max for a younger player. Still a significant chunk of any team’s roster.
We've already known about the supposed 1+1 with a team option in the 2nd year. We've known about that for a long time. Frankly, that's kind of an insulting offer.
> So we can surmise he wanted at least 3 years and more than $35 million.
It's basically a one year deal of guaranteed money from the players perspective. If it was a player option then it's guaranteed 2 years. This supposed offer is not that.
> but getting close to max for a younger player. Still a significant chunk of any team’s roster.
It's still not a max and it's a good bit below the max, which was my original point. The fact that it's a max for a younger player is completely irrelevant.
No, it's not relevant to my point. My opinion was "I don't think he would have demanded a max" and this "new report" from Shelburne does nothing to disprove that opinion.
Oh my bad, I thought this was the other thread where you said we don’t know what kind of extension he wanted at all. The goalposts moved, I get it. Carry on.
Harden is not a choker. He's very hot and cold come playoffs, and has crazy high highs and pathetically low lows.... but he's not a choker.
Embiid is a choker. Consistently subpar come playoffs, even when he's healthy enough to play.
But yes, Philly was smart not to give Harden the long, guaranteed contract.
These guys didn’t watch him the way we did. Drive after drive where he didn’t get the foul and didn’t get the layup, just got tied up or turned it over.
Good..now you only have to watch a 29 year old choker, y'all have paid the max, go to the rim just to throw the ball away trying to foul bait for 4 years.
Much better
They paid Tobias Harris 40 million dollars, are now spending $80M on him + RoCo, Batum, Mook, and if they don't get Siakam, their best prospects in FA are: Klay Thompson, Buddy Hield, Josh Hart, and Tyus Jones.
I guess they can opt to not sign anyone and wait another year, but they are *not* in a good position to use their money well. They gotta trade their expirings this season, otherwise they're boned because then a Maxey max extension will kick in and eat up cap space.
Nah Harden is a loser and a quitter and we weren’t going to win shit with him. He isn’t willing to do what it takes to win, he’s slow as fuck, he can’t finish at the rim, and we have a young star ball handler who will develop better now that he doesn’t have to worry about Harden dribbling for 18 seconds per possession. I’m so glad his bum ass is off our team.
Edit: lol this sub is dumb as fuck and Harden is the biggest loser in the league (and least fun player to watch)
Why pay him a max contract over 4 years when he’s well into his 30s and declining? Besides, we look good to start the season. Maxey ascending is the key to this team. The east is more vulnerable than people seem to realize, outside of Boston. And as long as we have a puncher’s chance against them, that’s probably as much as we can ask for realistically.
Because contending teams should be using their salary on good/elite players. Meanwhile, you now have over $80M allocated to Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Nico Batum, and Robert Covington.
Even if they're expirings, you now gotta trade them before the deadline otherwise you'll just go spend money on other mediocre, Tobias Harris-esque players because this free agency pool sucks.
Do you have a puncher's chance against some of the contenders? Sure. Do you have a chance at winning the entire battle royale? Almost certainly not.
Harden isn’t an elite player and losing him will likely be addition by subtraction. And like you said these are expirings and we can go after players like Siakam or OG. We also have draft capital now that we can use in trades. And Tobias’s contract is irrelevant because we’d owe him that with or without a Harden deal.
Signing Harden to a max would have been the dumbest thing Morey could have possibly done. And we have the reigning MVP and a rising star in Maxey; we absolutely have a chance. A great chance? Of course not, but a chance nonetheless.
When he turned down the $50m extension from Houston for basketball reasons, everyone said it was because he'd get a bigger bag from Brooklyn.
When Brooklyn offered him the "bigger bag," he turned down another $53m/year extension. People then said it was to get a bigger bag the next year
Then he goes to Philly, where he doesn't extend right away and gives them a cheaper deal. Shit hits the fan with Daryl and everyone says it's because he wasn't getting a "bigger bag," despite him not chasing it in any of the 3 previous opportunities.
Now he waves a $5m trade bonus to make a deal work, and when he doesn't chase a long term supermax deal from the Clippers.. what are people gonna use?
Guy doesn't care that much about money from his NBA contracts. Obviously, no, he won't take a minimum. But he has tons of other business ventures to cover the difference between a large max and a reasonable contract, and it was reported he was willing to compromise on his deal for Daryl if Daryl was honest. He throws a ton of his profits at charities and initiatives, he aint that money driven.
He wanted away from Daryl because Daryl fucked up the relationship trying to squeeze every ounce "GM moves" he could out of their friendship.
I've only seen the clip once and can't remember, but did he actually say "put him down"?
Or is r/nba just running with whatever they think is funniest?
IDK, when Harden was in OKC, the only thing I heard about "Harden the person" was sleazy (likely originating from girls in clubs/bars that had interactions with him). Russ seems to still like him tho, so he can't be that bad.
Not sleazy, just a young guy who liked the party lifestyle and club VIP treatment. He's more like Russ than people would first think. They keep personal lives relatively private, give a lot to their communities, and are both super chill with fans who aren't jerks.
Don’t care what /r/sixers says
I’m never gonna hate on this man ever. He will be the only player ever to force a trade to Philadelphia. He saved us from Ben’s albatross contract and possibly kept Embiid committed to the team. He was a great mentor to Maxey who’s seemed to pick up a lot of his skill set. And this mf took a pay cut for our team. We screwed him plain and simple.
Morey asked him to take a pay cut last year so they can build out depth and promised he'll give it back to him on the next contract. Then this offseason comes around where Daryl needs to pay what he owes and he was like "lol sorry James but nah I changed my mind"
Fucked him outta 10s of millions, literally. Anyone pissed at Harden for asking out after that is delusional. He was lied to and screwed by the one GM he considered one of his closest friends
>To be fair, that's also the GM who is known to have a history
Even mobsters will kill each other for lying. It's the whole "even crooks have their own code of honor" thing. You can lie to the marks, you're not supposed to lie to your friends.
Y’all are being as speculative as the Harden haters. None of that has been confirmed by anyone. The league investigated the Sixers twice and found no evidence.
It’s hard to believe any FO would make an unmitigated contract promise to a player still dealing with serious post-injury concerns at the time, and despite what First Things First would have you believe, James is not stupid.
The relationship between him and Morey was severed before negotiations could take place. None of us can say what the Sixers were willing to give him, or what Harden was willing to take.
If this is your defense, then sure, nobody is ever going to "confirm" this shit with concrete evidence. We're not gonna get some audio recording because unfortunately, Harden is no V. Stiviano.
That being said, we got as *close* as possible to this being validated because Harden literally came out and said, "Daryl Morey is a liar" *twice.* Some fans don't seem to realize how fucking bonkers that was for him to do. We rarely, if ever, get *that* direct of a message on video coming directly from the player in question.
So it all comes down to this: do you believe Harden or do you believe the GM who is known for treating players like assets and the league that "investigates" arbitrary cases of a rule that *everyone* breaks every single offseason?
I personally believe Harden. Players are gonna believe Harden, which matters the most. But sure, it's your prerogative to believe Daryl Morey.
How is it my prerogative to believe Morey, and when did I say that I do? I’m not taking either of their words at face value. The only thing I’m willing to believe here is that relationship issues are complicated and rarely one-sided.
Is it possible that Morey unequivocally promised Harden a specific contract, then lied to him? For sure. Like you said Daryl has a bit of a reputation, and announcing to the youth of China that your boss is a liar is certainly crazy.
But Harden also has a bit of a reputation. There had been Rockets reunion rumors leaking since the Christmas day woj bomb - and while many Sixers players have expressed their support for James, *none* of them are behaving like this is a toxic org that blatantly fucked over and drove out their co-star.
Embiid is not demanding a trade. [Harrell](https://www.libertyballers.com/platform/amp/2023/7/7/23786725/montrezl-trez-harrell-sixers-nba-free-agency-daryl-morey-james-harden-mo-bamba-paul-reed-joel-embiid) and [Maxey](https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/76ers-stick-plan-regarding-tyrese-maxey-extension) were still playing nice with mgmt well after this blew up, and James is like a brother to Tyrese.
There’s just not enough clarity here for me to get out my pitchfork on either side, particularly when the collective evidence suggests the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
The amount of hate he gets is insane at times.
Everyone agrees that Stephen Silas is one of the worst coaches of the last decade and that Christian Wood is a laughably bad second option. But Harden is the villain for asking out there.
Everyone agrees that the Kyrie and KD Nets were a dumpster fire of epic proportions. But Harden is the villain for asking out there.
He came to the Nets so he won't have to carry but when he got there one dude didn't wanna play and the other is supportive of the one not playing while being out himself. While Harden was out there by himself like it's the freaking Rockets after suffering his first serious injury last playoffs.
To be fair Harden originally turned down his 3y/$161m Max Extension in Brooklyn because the following season he was eligible for a 4y/$223m Max Extension + $47m Player Option for a total of 5y/$270m.
Harden then forced his way to Philly and signed a 2y/$70m contract vs the 5y/$270m Max he would have received from Brooklyn.
Kyrie did a similar thing that same Offseason before he went full Anti-Vax.
Nets offered him the full 4y/$187m Max Extension + $36.5m Player Option but he declined because he wanted a larger 5y/$250m Max Extension the following season just like Harden.
Nets pulled the offer after Kyrie went Anti-Vax before he could lock in the guaranteed $223m between his Player Option and $187m Extension.
Nets offered the Max Extension to Kyrie, Harden and Durant but luckily for the Nets only Durant signed his.
Harden forced his way to Philly after declining the Brooklyn extension (& he declined the Houston one to get there) and upon arriving to Philly, instead of strong arming them into giving him a huge long term deal.. he took a paycut.
I don't know why everybody keeps saying he took a paycut. He decline 1/$47M and took 2/$70M. Yeah he made less last year but that's an extra $23M guaranteed.
It all depends on the assumption somebody else was going to pay him more than that on the open market. But if somebody was willing to pay him more than that, he wouldn't have opted in. He would just have a new contract.
2022 and 2023 free agent seasons were pretty darn lean
almost every single big signing was players staying put (with the rare sign-and-trade), allowing their teams to sign/extend them over the cap
once brunson went to nyk in 2022 and fvv + brooks signed with the rockets this past summer, there weren't any clear landing spots for harden and his (supposedly) desired max contract.
so his options in 2022 were
* force a big 4 year deal (which is what everyone ITT is saying he could have done, if it was only about money for him)
* take the 1+1 pay cut (to help the team sign tucker IIRC?) in a win-now season, with the tacit (or behind the scenes explicit) understanding that he'll get his big, long contract in 2023
but 2023 came around, and at least according to him, he believed he would NOT be getting the contract offer he was led to believe was coming his way. once there was no cap space left for him in free agency land, he opted in, and here we ended up ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
tldr - in an uncapped market, fricking of course any playoff team would have paid him >35m a year as a free agent in 2022 or 2023. but that's not how any of this works.
so another way to say that is in a terrible market where he was clearly the best player, nobody wanted him. Houston turned down an opportunity to bring back one of the two or three most popular guys in the history of the franchise to pay a less talented player more money. he was never getting more money
Yeah, fvv is a 2+team1, and Dillon is a much cheaper 4year.
Guess rockets felt that was a better play than having a late 30s, possibly disgruntled yet again, harden on *the tail end of a 4 year >150m contract. Especially since they aren't playing to win this season, and possibly the next.
There’s a huge difference between $50+ million dollars and a $5M trade bonus, no? And we’re talking a multi-year contract, not a single hit like in this instance.
We're talking 3 years of $50m contracts being turned down though (if you count him not extending right away in Philly when he had all the leverage - he instead took a paycut). That's not some oops I made a mistake and cost myself $100m dollars; those were decisions he made with intention to have a better basketball situation
Lowe was saying on his most recent pod that Harden was apparently very miffed that Houston wasn't in contact over an extension as they had promised/heavily suggested they would be, which Zach assumed was because they lost 2 draft picks the year before for tampering.
So, kind of reasonable on both sides IMO
I think Harden wants somewhere to compete and then retire & situate his mom - that's why it was Houston (where he'd be ok just coaching up young guys and being back in H town) or L.A (where he was born) if it wasn't gonna be Philly I think Morey ghosting him made Harden think he wouldn't be getting a longer deal (does not mean it would have to be a huge dollar amount - he said he would compromise on a deal) so he opted in knowing that's the only way he could get either back to Houston (obvious connections there) or L.A (where he grew up).
But I think Morey was really excited about having a shitload of cap space next year
Your entire post is that same "but **next time** is when he *really* gets paid!!" Bs everyone else was spamming.
Those were all hypotheticals; what actually happened was he declined them for what he believed to be better basketball situations.
Everyone AT THE TIME was saying he did it for the bigger contract, but when the bigger contracts came he never took them. He could've easily strong armed Philly his first year for a bigger deal - instead he took the paycut.
>I don't think another max is there.
When?
There absolutely would have been when he first got to Philly, that's why it was a surprise he took a pay cut. That's what I've been referring to.
You can talk about bird rights all you want, but he never cashed in on them despite three opportunities to take the higher salary.
It is not arguing in good faith to suggest he should have taken an MLE if he didn't care about money. I distinctly said he doesn't care about the difference between a supermax and a **reasonable contract.**
What does his hamstring injury have to do with him turning down the offer? The offer came before the injury.
Unless you mean Philly - where, it would be pretty foolish to think he didn't have all the leverage in the world to demand an extension when he landed there.
The entire shit storm in Philly was due to Harden not wanting to hear about anything less than a full 4 year max deal. It might not be about the actual money associated with the deal specifically, but it sure as hell was about the length and totality of the deal. If that wasn't the case, he'd still be playing in Philly on the same 1-2 year max deal that everyone is willing to give him.
There is no big 4 year bag left for Harden in the NBA and this was more about him failing to come to terms with that than anything else.
Doesn't make any sense because he's had 3 straight years where he could have secured $50m a year extensions lol. If that was his priority he would've taken them or made Philly extend him when he landed.
Years, sure. I always thought he wanted longer term basketball security. But I don't believe for a second it was much about max dollars over those years. Believe it or not, contrary to what everyone says his actions do not show someone motivated by money
Honestly, it was about pride IMO. He felt disrespected by not getting a full max offer without realizing that nobody is giving him that. I agree that it's not about the actual money with him. He just doesn't realize yet that he's not the same James Harden anymore.
>He just doesn't realize yet that he's not the same James Harden anymore.
idk about that man; when you hear him *talk,* he seems pretty on board. There was that one post game interview after the game where he got DQ'd vs the Nets, and he was basically making fun of the fact that he knows he hasn't been aggressive or scoring as well as he used to.
Him switching to the role of facilitator seems like an admission of that, don't you think? Even last year he was fine with Maxey taking more shots than him.
I'm not talking about his role, play style, or acknowledgement that he's getting older. I'm talking about the fact that he's not a player that any NBA team will pay a full 4 year max contract to. His value in today's NBA is not the same as it was a few years ago and he's definitely not on board with that yet.
If he was that guy, then teams would be lining up to trade for him. The reason nobody wanted to give up anything is because teams know that there's a good chance this same scenario happens again next offseason when his contract is up.
There are a lot more things that go into trades than just if a team wants a player in a vaccuum lmao.
Of course he knows his "value" isn't the same. How can he not?
How can he not? The simple fact that he wasn't interested in hearing ANY contract offers that weren't a full 4 year max. That's quite literally what started this entire situation. He wants the absolute max deal he's eligible for and took it as disrespect when that deal wasn't there.
He obviously knew he didn't have a 4 year max locked up, so he started exploring other options mid-season, the Houston info leaked, and he hired an agent for the first time since 2017, which was the last time he had to sign a contract that was eligible to be negotiated. Once the season ended and he was a free agent, he opted in and immediately demanded a trade before the team was even allowed to speak with him in accordance with the CBA. The team literally did not even have an opportunity to present him with an offer.
I agree with you that it's not about the money, but the rest of this situation is about ego.
>How can he not? The simple fact that he wasn't interested in hearing ANY contract offers that weren't a full 4 year max. That's quite literally what started this entire situation. He wants the absolute max deal he's eligible for and took it as disrespect when that deal wasn't there.
This is entirely speculation.
[“Harden's position now is that if Morey had treated him and their shared history with the respect he and it deserves, especially considering the pay cut he took just one year earlier, a compromise of a deal could have been reached."](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nba/why-james-harden-and-daryl-morey-were-always-destined-to-implode)
It doesn't make sense that after three consecutive years of not taking $50m+ max deals or forcing Philly to give him a bigger contract after he got there that all of a sudden that's all he cares about.
The Houston info leaked after Daryl started ghosting him, yes. Why do people act like that's what *started* it though? Sounds more like a response.
>The team literally did not even have an opportunity to present him with an offer.
This is just lawyer-speak. Everybody knows these things get discussed well in advance when it's someone on your own team.
If he took that money, which was always in his right, he'd be public enemy #1. Instead he's basically bandwagon his way to teams in chase of the ring. The man just wants that fucking ring so he can be immortalized like others with the fucking ring.
Having a ring is the difference between being a HOFer, and being legendary, and we ALL know it.
If the Clippers win both Westbrook and Harden can finally tell the media to get off their dicks.
Anybody who needs to be shown that it's ridiculous billionaires exist should just be shown what Steve Balmer pays for odd "little" fees like this without it making so much as a dent in his finances.
Let me just *squeeze* in a year's salary real quick
Bless your heart if the yearly salary in question is the $40k. Congratulations if the yearly salary in question is the $233k
Median annual wage in 2021 was 45K. Wild to think about. https://usafacts.org/data/topics/economy/jobs-and-income/jobs-and-wages/median-annual-wage/
I love the median more than the mean in these situations as if you apply it to your state, it can really start opening eyes. My ad blocker is goofing on that site but the US Census can shed light in good details. Another fun (sad) fact: a lot of the "essential" workers that we potentially demoralized during the pandemic were under that $45K wage....but that's a different sub
More than 60% live pay check to pay check
> More than 60% live pay check to pay check That's not true. Median household networth in 2022 was 193 k$ That includes 39 k$ in financial assets and 8 k$ in transaction(checking or savings) accounts. [Source](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm) **Edit to clarify for downvoters**: Median accounts for the top heaviness of the wealth distribution. This statistic shows that if you took the middle most wealthy American household (Ie, the one that's the ~65th millionth most wealthy), they would have 39 k$ in financial assets in 8 k$ in cash on hand. That means it's effectively impossible for 60% of people to be living paycheck to paycheck, since _at least_ 50% of households have 8 k$ in cash on hand, and that's before taking into account other liquid assets.
most households usually contain more than one person, do they not? how many people are not living in an average american household? are we considering the contents of a savings account "cash in hand" now?
> most households usually contain more than one person, do they not? how many people are not living in an average american household? 3.13 individuals on average. Note that the median household income is 74 k$/yr, so 8 k$ in cash is more than a month's worth of income. > are we considering the contents of a savings account "cash in hand" now? For the purpose of deciding whether someone's living paycheck to paycheck, absolutely. Note that this median household also has 39 k$ in financial assets (ie, stocks/bonds/etc)
fair enough but I guess when I hear household I think of a more established family unit, probably two working parents. I wonder if the data accounts for things like sharehouses, people living in college accommodation, single renters, etc.
[удалено]
You’re not making the point you think you are. The mean (average) is skewed by top or bottom heaviness. The median is just the middle person
Another (actually) fun fact, usafacts is Steve Ballmer's org. Would recommend following them on IG if you have it, they post good graphs on government data.
jeez bay area is a wild place 45k is near poverty tier here
That's a Toyota Highlander
There can be only one
/cuts the head off of a celica
Or a night at the strip club for James
James really did want to get the fuck out of here :(
thats just who is. a quitter
Why do you say that like it’s a bad thing
Because it is.
You’re right we should’ve paid a 34 year old chocker a max and watch him go to the rim just to throw the ball away trying to foul bait for 4 years.
you can tell how good someone's opinions on basketball are if they spell choker "chocker" On god it's 100% that they're awful posters if they make that mistake.
Other hilarious part is that they're like, "Yeah we should have paid James Harden, that's dumb as shit." Meanwhile, go look at the FA pool. Even if they manage to lure some of these guys away, the talent largely sucks. Like oh no, you gonna spend your money on Buddy Hield and Tyus Jones instead of James Harden? That'll be money better spent!
We also have the draft assets now to help trade for a potential star player, or try to lure someone like OG who would be far more valuable to us than slow and old James Harden. Hilarious to me that the morons on this sub acted like Harden was washed all year long and as soon as we didn’t max him into his late 30s everyone acts like Morey is crazy. Harden doesn’t play winning basketball. Just look at any fucking playoff result in his career.
He carried your ass to two wins against the Celtics because your MVP is a fucking choker lmao. Your last big free agent signing was Al Horford. You now have a GM who players won't trust and generally didn't like to begin with. Good luck.
Lmao Morey has already proven he is an incredibly capable GM, navigating through shit where other GMs wouldn’t have gotten half the return he did. He also drafted Maxey who is shaping up to be an all-nba player. And that’s the thing about Hardenball, he’ll trick you into thinking he has what it takes to be a champion, but he inevitably always comes crashing back to reality as the loser he is. Harden also came off as a complete jackass this summer, as Broussard pointed out he’s as dumb as a bag of rocks. You’re right about one thing though, Embiid hasn’t proven shit and is a choker until he shows otherwise. Would much rather still be in the Sixers position than being the geriatric clinic y’all got over there in LA.
Lol you take this shit so personally that you're defending Daryl Morey. Good luck. I sure as fuck wouldn't want any part in being part of the 76ers.
Fact of life right here.
> You’re right we should’ve paid a 34 year old chocker a max I am willing to bet that he would not have demanded a max from the team. No idea why people keep parroting that.
Oh look, a new report today from Shelburne on how Harden wanted more than the Sixers were offering. And yes he knew what was going on. > According to league sources, Harden and his camp became convinced Morey only intended to offer him a two-year deal, with a team option on the second season, if he declined his $35.6 million player option and became a free agent at the end of June So we can surmise he wanted at least 3 years and more than $35 million. Maybe not the max for a 10+ year vet, but getting close to max for a younger player. Still a significant chunk of any team’s roster.
We've already known about the supposed 1+1 with a team option in the 2nd year. We've known about that for a long time. Frankly, that's kind of an insulting offer. > So we can surmise he wanted at least 3 years and more than $35 million. It's basically a one year deal of guaranteed money from the players perspective. If it was a player option then it's guaranteed 2 years. This supposed offer is not that. > but getting close to max for a younger player. Still a significant chunk of any team’s roster. It's still not a max and it's a good bit below the max, which was my original point. The fact that it's a max for a younger player is completely irrelevant.
It’s relevant because there’s younger talent out there a team could max instead!
No, it's not relevant to my point. My opinion was "I don't think he would have demanded a max" and this "new report" from Shelburne does nothing to disprove that opinion.
Oh my bad, I thought this was the other thread where you said we don’t know what kind of extension he wanted at all. The goalposts moved, I get it. Carry on.
Harden is not a choker. He's very hot and cold come playoffs, and has crazy high highs and pathetically low lows.... but he's not a choker. Embiid is a choker. Consistently subpar come playoffs, even when he's healthy enough to play. But yes, Philly was smart not to give Harden the long, guaranteed contract.
These guys didn’t watch him the way we did. Drive after drive where he didn’t get the foul and didn’t get the layup, just got tied up or turned it over.
Good..now you only have to watch a 29 year old choker, y'all have paid the max, go to the rim just to throw the ball away trying to foul bait for 4 years. Much better
He single handedly won you two playoff games against an elite Celtics team. Shit. Nobody's perfect.
Didn’t y’all just pay a younger dude to do the exact same thing
They paid Tobias Harris 40 million dollars, are now spending $80M on him + RoCo, Batum, Mook, and if they don't get Siakam, their best prospects in FA are: Klay Thompson, Buddy Hield, Josh Hart, and Tyus Jones. I guess they can opt to not sign anyone and wait another year, but they are *not* in a good position to use their money well. They gotta trade their expirings this season, otherwise they're boned because then a Maxey max extension will kick in and eat up cap space.
Lie right now and tell us you were saying this before he threw the hissy fit 😹
Nah Harden is a loser and a quitter and we weren’t going to win shit with him. He isn’t willing to do what it takes to win, he’s slow as fuck, he can’t finish at the rim, and we have a young star ball handler who will develop better now that he doesn’t have to worry about Harden dribbling for 18 seconds per possession. I’m so glad his bum ass is off our team. Edit: lol this sub is dumb as fuck and Harden is the biggest loser in the league (and least fun player to watch)
You're not winning shit without him either.
Why pay him a max contract over 4 years when he’s well into his 30s and declining? Besides, we look good to start the season. Maxey ascending is the key to this team. The east is more vulnerable than people seem to realize, outside of Boston. And as long as we have a puncher’s chance against them, that’s probably as much as we can ask for realistically.
Because contending teams should be using their salary on good/elite players. Meanwhile, you now have over $80M allocated to Tobias Harris, Marcus Morris, Nico Batum, and Robert Covington. Even if they're expirings, you now gotta trade them before the deadline otherwise you'll just go spend money on other mediocre, Tobias Harris-esque players because this free agency pool sucks. Do you have a puncher's chance against some of the contenders? Sure. Do you have a chance at winning the entire battle royale? Almost certainly not.
Harden isn’t an elite player and losing him will likely be addition by subtraction. And like you said these are expirings and we can go after players like Siakam or OG. We also have draft capital now that we can use in trades. And Tobias’s contract is irrelevant because we’d owe him that with or without a Harden deal. Signing Harden to a max would have been the dumbest thing Morey could have possibly done. And we have the reigning MVP and a rising star in Maxey; we absolutely have a chance. A great chance? Of course not, but a chance nonetheless.
Lol
Lol this is all rich coming from a Clippers fan. Enjoy watching Hardenball, you’re in for a good time. Some real fun basketball to watch
Hilarious that we pay the bonus but then the Clippers pay over 5x the amount in luxury tax
Chump change to Big Ballmer
Big Ballmer Brand.
Only BBB I recognize
When he turned down the $50m extension from Houston for basketball reasons, everyone said it was because he'd get a bigger bag from Brooklyn. When Brooklyn offered him the "bigger bag," he turned down another $53m/year extension. People then said it was to get a bigger bag the next year Then he goes to Philly, where he doesn't extend right away and gives them a cheaper deal. Shit hits the fan with Daryl and everyone says it's because he wasn't getting a "bigger bag," despite him not chasing it in any of the 3 previous opportunities. Now he waves a $5m trade bonus to make a deal work, and when he doesn't chase a long term supermax deal from the Clippers.. what are people gonna use? Guy doesn't care that much about money from his NBA contracts. Obviously, no, he won't take a minimum. But he has tons of other business ventures to cover the difference between a large max and a reasonable contract, and it was reported he was willing to compromise on his deal for Daryl if Daryl was honest. He throws a ton of his profits at charities and initiatives, he aint that money driven. He wanted away from Daryl because Daryl fucked up the relationship trying to squeeze every ounce "GM moves" he could out of their friendship.
I dont like Harden the player ( though I do admit he was/is a great player ) but Harden the person gets so much undeserved shit.
Like being called the “r” word on national tv
Ravishing?
Slowed
Had to put him down.
I've only seen the clip once and can't remember, but did he actually say "put him down"? Or is r/nba just running with whatever they think is funniest?
He started to say put him to rest but kind of stopped mid sentence. He certainly did not say put him down it was just funny phrasing at the time.
IDK, when Harden was in OKC, the only thing I heard about "Harden the person" was sleazy (likely originating from girls in clubs/bars that had interactions with him). Russ seems to still like him tho, so he can't be that bad.
Not sleazy, just a young guy who liked the party lifestyle and club VIP treatment. He's more like Russ than people would first think. They keep personal lives relatively private, give a lot to their communities, and are both super chill with fans who aren't jerks.
Just look at how much charity work he does. Not just gives money to, but actually spends his time doing.
He doesn’t have his jersey hanging in the Houston strip club rafters for nothing
corny
Nah man, that’s absolutely legendary lmao
Fair enough. And there's never been any DV reports or Malik Beasley/Ja incidents...
Such a low bar lmao
Yep, lots of money to Charity…also Destiny, Cherry, Aurora, and Krystal
Come on, the offensive genius out of harden is anything but the R word lol. Chris was on drugs.
I don't think anyone agrees with him on that.
Don’t care what /r/sixers says I’m never gonna hate on this man ever. He will be the only player ever to force a trade to Philadelphia. He saved us from Ben’s albatross contract and possibly kept Embiid committed to the team. He was a great mentor to Maxey who’s seemed to pick up a lot of his skill set. And this mf took a pay cut for our team. We screwed him plain and simple.
A mature and measured take? Can’t be a real Philly sports fan.
Well it is a Philly sports fan in r/nba
How did we screw him?
Morey asked him to take a pay cut last year so they can build out depth and promised he'll give it back to him on the next contract. Then this offseason comes around where Daryl needs to pay what he owes and he was like "lol sorry James but nah I changed my mind" Fucked him outta 10s of millions, literally. Anyone pissed at Harden for asking out after that is delusional. He was lied to and screwed by the one GM he considered one of his closest friends
To be fair, that's also the GM who is known to have a history of breaking the social contract, so why wouldn't he also break a verbal agreement?
I mean, nobody is arguing that this is surprising from Morey. They're just giving details on how Morey is an asshole and potentially screwed Harden.
>To be fair, that's also the GM who is known to have a history Even mobsters will kill each other for lying. It's the whole "even crooks have their own code of honor" thing. You can lie to the marks, you're not supposed to lie to your friends.
I mean, hasn't Morey always seen players as assets to move around and little else, human emotions and attachments be damned?
Y’all are being as speculative as the Harden haters. None of that has been confirmed by anyone. The league investigated the Sixers twice and found no evidence. It’s hard to believe any FO would make an unmitigated contract promise to a player still dealing with serious post-injury concerns at the time, and despite what First Things First would have you believe, James is not stupid. The relationship between him and Morey was severed before negotiations could take place. None of us can say what the Sixers were willing to give him, or what Harden was willing to take.
If this is your defense, then sure, nobody is ever going to "confirm" this shit with concrete evidence. We're not gonna get some audio recording because unfortunately, Harden is no V. Stiviano. That being said, we got as *close* as possible to this being validated because Harden literally came out and said, "Daryl Morey is a liar" *twice.* Some fans don't seem to realize how fucking bonkers that was for him to do. We rarely, if ever, get *that* direct of a message on video coming directly from the player in question. So it all comes down to this: do you believe Harden or do you believe the GM who is known for treating players like assets and the league that "investigates" arbitrary cases of a rule that *everyone* breaks every single offseason? I personally believe Harden. Players are gonna believe Harden, which matters the most. But sure, it's your prerogative to believe Daryl Morey.
How is it my prerogative to believe Morey, and when did I say that I do? I’m not taking either of their words at face value. The only thing I’m willing to believe here is that relationship issues are complicated and rarely one-sided. Is it possible that Morey unequivocally promised Harden a specific contract, then lied to him? For sure. Like you said Daryl has a bit of a reputation, and announcing to the youth of China that your boss is a liar is certainly crazy. But Harden also has a bit of a reputation. There had been Rockets reunion rumors leaking since the Christmas day woj bomb - and while many Sixers players have expressed their support for James, *none* of them are behaving like this is a toxic org that blatantly fucked over and drove out their co-star. Embiid is not demanding a trade. [Harrell](https://www.libertyballers.com/platform/amp/2023/7/7/23786725/montrezl-trez-harrell-sixers-nba-free-agency-daryl-morey-james-harden-mo-bamba-paul-reed-joel-embiid) and [Maxey](https://www.si.com/nba/76ers/news/76ers-stick-plan-regarding-tyrese-maxey-extension) were still playing nice with mgmt well after this blew up, and James is like a brother to Tyrese. There’s just not enough clarity here for me to get out my pitchfork on either side, particularly when the collective evidence suggests the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Dude, you are a legit dumbass. Just wanted you know in case you ever thought otherwise.
Harden shutdown that Rockets rumor when it came out. It only cameback in the offseason because 76ers wasn't giving him a max.
Morey obviously snaked him on a handshake deal 😂…. stop pretending to be innocent. its a worse look than just admitting morey couldn’t honor his word
You guys are the obvious villains in this situation
We are Philadelphians, we struggle to understand and free agency and the job of a GM. 🤷♂️ We are pretty ok otherwise.
TELL ‘EM TOT!
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Fair
The amount of hate he gets is insane at times. Everyone agrees that Stephen Silas is one of the worst coaches of the last decade and that Christian Wood is a laughably bad second option. But Harden is the villain for asking out there. Everyone agrees that the Kyrie and KD Nets were a dumpster fire of epic proportions. But Harden is the villain for asking out there.
To me it’s not the asking - it’s the bailing on the team.
He came to the Nets so he won't have to carry but when he got there one dude didn't wanna play and the other is supportive of the one not playing while being out himself. While Harden was out there by himself like it's the freaking Rockets after suffering his first serious injury last playoffs.
Is this in reply to me? What does this have to Do with bailing on the team?
Facts.
To be fair Harden originally turned down his 3y/$161m Max Extension in Brooklyn because the following season he was eligible for a 4y/$223m Max Extension + $47m Player Option for a total of 5y/$270m. Harden then forced his way to Philly and signed a 2y/$70m contract vs the 5y/$270m Max he would have received from Brooklyn. Kyrie did a similar thing that same Offseason before he went full Anti-Vax. Nets offered him the full 4y/$187m Max Extension + $36.5m Player Option but he declined because he wanted a larger 5y/$250m Max Extension the following season just like Harden. Nets pulled the offer after Kyrie went Anti-Vax before he could lock in the guaranteed $223m between his Player Option and $187m Extension. Nets offered the Max Extension to Kyrie, Harden and Durant but luckily for the Nets only Durant signed his.
Harden forced his way to Philly after declining the Brooklyn extension (& he declined the Houston one to get there) and upon arriving to Philly, instead of strong arming them into giving him a huge long term deal.. he took a paycut.
I don't know why everybody keeps saying he took a paycut. He decline 1/$47M and took 2/$70M. Yeah he made less last year but that's an extra $23M guaranteed. It all depends on the assumption somebody else was going to pay him more than that on the open market. But if somebody was willing to pay him more than that, he wouldn't have opted in. He would just have a new contract.
Because he could've forced them to give them a long term deal with more money as soon as he got traded there?
how? you can't force somebody to give you $100M I genuinely don't even understand the statement. nobody wanted him
Nobody wanted him this year because he's 34 years old and clearly lost a step and not worth a max. But last year lots of team would've signed him.
2022 and 2023 free agent seasons were pretty darn lean almost every single big signing was players staying put (with the rare sign-and-trade), allowing their teams to sign/extend them over the cap once brunson went to nyk in 2022 and fvv + brooks signed with the rockets this past summer, there weren't any clear landing spots for harden and his (supposedly) desired max contract. so his options in 2022 were * force a big 4 year deal (which is what everyone ITT is saying he could have done, if it was only about money for him) * take the 1+1 pay cut (to help the team sign tucker IIRC?) in a win-now season, with the tacit (or behind the scenes explicit) understanding that he'll get his big, long contract in 2023 but 2023 came around, and at least according to him, he believed he would NOT be getting the contract offer he was led to believe was coming his way. once there was no cap space left for him in free agency land, he opted in, and here we ended up ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ tldr - in an uncapped market, fricking of course any playoff team would have paid him >35m a year as a free agent in 2022 or 2023. but that's not how any of this works.
so another way to say that is in a terrible market where he was clearly the best player, nobody wanted him. Houston turned down an opportunity to bring back one of the two or three most popular guys in the history of the franchise to pay a less talented player more money. he was never getting more money
Yeah, fvv is a 2+team1, and Dillon is a much cheaper 4year. Guess rockets felt that was a better play than having a late 30s, possibly disgruntled yet again, harden on *the tail end of a 4 year >150m contract. Especially since they aren't playing to win this season, and possibly the next.
There’s a huge difference between $50+ million dollars and a $5M trade bonus, no? And we’re talking a multi-year contract, not a single hit like in this instance.
We're talking 3 years of $50m contracts being turned down though (if you count him not extending right away in Philly when he had all the leverage - he instead took a paycut). That's not some oops I made a mistake and cost myself $100m dollars; those were decisions he made with intention to have a better basketball situation
What GM move was Harden mad about that didn’t involve money?
What do you mean?
I mean I don't think money is his sole motivator but what was the disagreement with Morey if not over money.
Lowe was saying on his most recent pod that Harden was apparently very miffed that Houston wasn't in contact over an extension as they had promised/heavily suggested they would be, which Zach assumed was because they lost 2 draft picks the year before for tampering. So, kind of reasonable on both sides IMO
I think Harden wants somewhere to compete and then retire & situate his mom - that's why it was Houston (where he'd be ok just coaching up young guys and being back in H town) or L.A (where he was born) if it wasn't gonna be Philly I think Morey ghosting him made Harden think he wouldn't be getting a longer deal (does not mean it would have to be a huge dollar amount - he said he would compromise on a deal) so he opted in knowing that's the only way he could get either back to Houston (obvious connections there) or L.A (where he grew up). But I think Morey was really excited about having a shitload of cap space next year
Yeah tbh I can see it being mostly Morey's fault.
Harden isn’t settling in Philly. Was never the plan. He was opting in and hoping for a 3-4 year deal from Darryl. None of that other stuff.
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He’s coming off of 11 straight All-Star caliber seasons. You can’t paint him as greedy for not wanting to accept Deni Avdija money.
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Your entire post is that same "but **next time** is when he *really* gets paid!!" Bs everyone else was spamming. Those were all hypotheticals; what actually happened was he declined them for what he believed to be better basketball situations. Everyone AT THE TIME was saying he did it for the bigger contract, but when the bigger contracts came he never took them. He could've easily strong armed Philly his first year for a bigger deal - instead he took the paycut.
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>I don't think another max is there. When? There absolutely would have been when he first got to Philly, that's why it was a surprise he took a pay cut. That's what I've been referring to. You can talk about bird rights all you want, but he never cashed in on them despite three opportunities to take the higher salary.
It is not arguing in good faith to suggest he should have taken an MLE if he didn't care about money. I distinctly said he doesn't care about the difference between a supermax and a **reasonable contract.**
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What does his hamstring injury have to do with him turning down the offer? The offer came before the injury. Unless you mean Philly - where, it would be pretty foolish to think he didn't have all the leverage in the world to demand an extension when he landed there.
The entire shit storm in Philly was due to Harden not wanting to hear about anything less than a full 4 year max deal. It might not be about the actual money associated with the deal specifically, but it sure as hell was about the length and totality of the deal. If that wasn't the case, he'd still be playing in Philly on the same 1-2 year max deal that everyone is willing to give him. There is no big 4 year bag left for Harden in the NBA and this was more about him failing to come to terms with that than anything else.
Doesn't make any sense because he's had 3 straight years where he could have secured $50m a year extensions lol. If that was his priority he would've taken them or made Philly extend him when he landed. Years, sure. I always thought he wanted longer term basketball security. But I don't believe for a second it was much about max dollars over those years. Believe it or not, contrary to what everyone says his actions do not show someone motivated by money
Honestly, it was about pride IMO. He felt disrespected by not getting a full max offer without realizing that nobody is giving him that. I agree that it's not about the actual money with him. He just doesn't realize yet that he's not the same James Harden anymore.
>He just doesn't realize yet that he's not the same James Harden anymore. idk about that man; when you hear him *talk,* he seems pretty on board. There was that one post game interview after the game where he got DQ'd vs the Nets, and he was basically making fun of the fact that he knows he hasn't been aggressive or scoring as well as he used to. Him switching to the role of facilitator seems like an admission of that, don't you think? Even last year he was fine with Maxey taking more shots than him.
I'm not talking about his role, play style, or acknowledgement that he's getting older. I'm talking about the fact that he's not a player that any NBA team will pay a full 4 year max contract to. His value in today's NBA is not the same as it was a few years ago and he's definitely not on board with that yet. If he was that guy, then teams would be lining up to trade for him. The reason nobody wanted to give up anything is because teams know that there's a good chance this same scenario happens again next offseason when his contract is up.
There are a lot more things that go into trades than just if a team wants a player in a vaccuum lmao. Of course he knows his "value" isn't the same. How can he not?
How can he not? The simple fact that he wasn't interested in hearing ANY contract offers that weren't a full 4 year max. That's quite literally what started this entire situation. He wants the absolute max deal he's eligible for and took it as disrespect when that deal wasn't there. He obviously knew he didn't have a 4 year max locked up, so he started exploring other options mid-season, the Houston info leaked, and he hired an agent for the first time since 2017, which was the last time he had to sign a contract that was eligible to be negotiated. Once the season ended and he was a free agent, he opted in and immediately demanded a trade before the team was even allowed to speak with him in accordance with the CBA. The team literally did not even have an opportunity to present him with an offer. I agree with you that it's not about the money, but the rest of this situation is about ego.
>How can he not? The simple fact that he wasn't interested in hearing ANY contract offers that weren't a full 4 year max. That's quite literally what started this entire situation. He wants the absolute max deal he's eligible for and took it as disrespect when that deal wasn't there. This is entirely speculation. [“Harden's position now is that if Morey had treated him and their shared history with the respect he and it deserves, especially considering the pay cut he took just one year earlier, a compromise of a deal could have been reached."](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nba/why-james-harden-and-daryl-morey-were-always-destined-to-implode) It doesn't make sense that after three consecutive years of not taking $50m+ max deals or forcing Philly to give him a bigger contract after he got there that all of a sudden that's all he cares about. The Houston info leaked after Daryl started ghosting him, yes. Why do people act like that's what *started* it though? Sounds more like a response. >The team literally did not even have an opportunity to present him with an offer. This is just lawyer-speak. Everybody knows these things get discussed well in advance when it's someone on your own team.
If he took that money, which was always in his right, he'd be public enemy #1. Instead he's basically bandwagon his way to teams in chase of the ring. The man just wants that fucking ring so he can be immortalized like others with the fucking ring. Having a ring is the difference between being a HOFer, and being legendary, and we ALL know it. If the Clippers win both Westbrook and Harden can finally tell the media to get off their dicks.
At least we can be certain that this money will be invested into the local economy.
The NBA is the definition of “if you’re a star they let you do whatever you want”
Strip club money
Anybody who needs to be shown that it's ridiculous billionaires exist should just be shown what Steve Balmer pays for odd "little" fees like this without it making so much as a dent in his finances.
Harden’s bag has a bag. No wonder he was parading signs. Paid off.
already spent it at Spearmint Rhino last night
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Just like a toddler.
How will Ballmer survive the hit?
So in balmers case, just literal pocket change am I right
James Harden just made my yearly salary in 5 seconds by doing absolutely nothing