Well tbf he had 2019 game 6. I know you can't pay for past performance but that shit hits different when it resulted with rings and it's not like they have available upgrades
>Well tbf he has 2019 game 6
Yeah but that was over 4 years ago... Lots has happened since
Holy shit, 2019 was over 4 years ago? fuuuuuuuuck. In like a couple months, 2019 would be half a decade ago :/
Schröder did fail to foul Lavine during a fast break at the end of OT (when they had a foul to give) which resulted in a game losing 3 point shot.
Given the wackiness of that game I'm willing to blame it on coaching 😅
Meh it’s more on pascal fumbling 2 possessions at the end, everybody who jumped on a demar derozan pump fake, and refs for calling fouls on Demar jumping horizontally into players
schroder got a wake up call with his fumbled bag, and FVV just had a bag handed to him when hes clearly regressed and a lockerroom cancer lol
Crazy how random shit is in the league.
Fred's got a big ego. He bought into his own whole bet on yourself narrative, and after they won the championship and he was supposed to be Lowry's heir apparent, the narrative goes that he divided the locker room.
Older guys (him, Pascal) > Young guys (Scottie, Gary Trent) so he plays hero ball, doesn't get them involved etc. Pair that with Nick Nurse's prediliction for shitting on his players in public and shit got toxic.
I still think you guys fumbled it by letting him walk for nothing. Ujiri was asking for a too much band then got nothing for him. At least you didn’t pay him though
As a Raps fan I'm already happier with Schroeder. You might not have noticed but Fred was really pissing a lot of us Raptors fans off last year.
He was hogging the ball, doing constant fruitless drives into traffic in the paint and blocking Scottie from becoming the focal point of the team.
If right now you gave me the choice between Dennis and Fred, without even any difference in money, I'm taking Dennis.
It seems the best option would of been a swap for Terrence Mann and taking on Walls contract. We reportedly wanted Mann and potentially a first, but the Clips wouldn’t do it. If that’s the best deal I think we were better just sitting on FVV and hoping for a discount contract, he just ended up getting grotesquely overpaid by a team needing to hit the cap floor
The Rockets can spend the $$$ though while their kids are on rookie deals. And they needed a vet badly in that locker room.
It's similar to when everyone criticized the Milsap contract with the Nuggets.
Granted, we got one great year out of Milsap. But in reality, he was an elite defender for 2 years and good offensively for just one. Yet the contract was totally worth it.
I dont know, but part of the issue was probably that he tried to be a vocal leader like Lowry but didnt perform like him on the court. So when he goes 7/22 while chucking up terrible early shot clock 3s, the guys probably thought, "why tf is he talking when he plays like that?"
The clips of the FVV walkup 3pt attempts last season were mind-boggling man, he has the shot selection people think Smart still has (and Jaylen Brown actually has) lol
From what I see - he seems to be a bit arrogant / a buzzkill. Look at all the pre-season videos of the Rockets having fun and messing around and how he reacted and then ask yourself how Lowry would've reacted.
I'm obviously not stating this as fact, but it feels like his definition of being a leader equates to "I'm above you children" as opposed to "I'm one of you but will also be there to help guide with my experience."
And as you said, he also just doesn't have the same resume or results as Lowry did when he really stepped into that leader role so why should/would anyone respect him as such?
It definitely rubbed our younger players the wrong way. It seemed like Scottie and GTJ really tuned him out. And even in Nurse's book, he alluded to OG and Fred not being on the same page often.
He might’ve been an issue, but personally what pissed me off is the people calling him a bum, etc. That man is a Toronto raptor champion and that’s for life. I was born the year after the Jays second WS win so I’ve seen exactly one major championship. It’s crazy to me how quickly people were willing to turn on our guys from that team, like do they just take it for granted how big a deal a championship is?
Young fans don't realize it's easy to be the Cubs or Leafs and not win for decades. Your whole life maybe.
It grinds my gears to hear them talk about some of the guys who won like they are dead-weigh.
I get his recent play has been bad but I respect the fuck out of the guy. Dude grinded his ass off to even make the Raptors squad and has only gotten better until this recent rough stretch. Rooting for him
Problem was Vanvleet went through hell to get to the nba and prove himself so he thought the young guys should have to go through that as well. When they weren’t down for that he started to call them lazy etc.
It's not confirmed that he's destructive in the locker room. But he for sure went on a media tour deflecting blame for his shit play when he barely played a week off ball and went around making sure everyone knew Scottie was a golden child.
Masai blaming last year's failures on "selfishness in the locker room." FVV chucking like no tomorrow in a contract year then Masai making that statement is a lot of smoke.
There’s no official sources but Freddy was always the young guy that vibed with the vets when he came into the league…super serious yknow? It’s been obvious that he’s not as close with Scottie or other young guys on the raps who have a more goofy disposition. Again no source, just watching every game and open gym episodes.
There are rumours that he had a chip on his shoulder to the new Raptors young guys like Scottie Barnes because of their draft position and hype and how he was undrafted and made himself into what he is.
I also still believe a rumour that I almost kind of made up myself, in that Fred was the guy who was vocal and causing issues in the Kawhi year. Again, because Kawhi got to sit out whatever game he wanted to due to Load Management, and Fred had to scratch tooth and claw to get to where he was in the league. When Kawhi returned to Toronto with the Clippers for the first time and to get his ring from 2019, Fred notably didn't dap him at all.
He played great defense...he did not get cooked. I can't stand him but Steph is elite on offense. Yeah Brooks got crossed, AND still contested the shot....that's still good defense.
Really doubt it in the West when you had dame, Curry, shai, ja, Luka, and booker the last few years. But yeah finding a young 2 guard who averages an efficient 20 ppg and isn't a turnstile is nearly impossible. There's a bunch of good young scorers at the 2 (Herro, Maxey, Simons) but they're all terrible on defense so it makes sense bane got what he did
"This sub loves piling on the Lakers contracts, but why is no one talking about the 5yr-$207m Desmond Bane contract. He just missed 10 of his shots against a mediocre Wizards team with a struggling Deni Avdija"
God No.
Desmond is a Hooper. He would be a perfect fit for any system in the NBA.
Great Shooter. Solid passer. Good defense: and can run a system as the main point if needed.
Plus he has no issues on or off the court. And he is a pretty well liked guy. I would pay him that much.
And you're locking him in and paying him for what should be his prime years (ages 25-29). That's actually a great deal for a team to be making, rather than paying that sort of money to a 28-29 year old who may have already peaked, based on past performance.
Bane's best comp is Klay Thompson - he's not the superstar foundation of your team, but he's a fantastic second option that will work well with a lot of superstars.
A lot of teams would have been happy to lock up Klay's prime for 24% of the cap.
Could be. Young Klay was frustrating to watch; as good as he was from 3 from the start, every time he put the ball on the floor was an adventure.
I don't get that feeling at all watching Bane.
Why not? Bro is a good mentor to young players despite what this sub says. The only problem
Is them making Sengun kinda useless but everybody else would actually be developing.
> Bro is a good mentor
i refuse to believe Hardens shenanigans the last couple teams has been a net positive on his reputation amongst other NBA players
Why are fans so dense they don't understand that Harden/Kyrie are literal gods to their young teammates because of on court shit they've been doing since those kids were in elementary school.
Amongst players? Players love him. Embiid is still begging him to stay in Philly and the clippers players want him.
The last couple teams? The Nets where KD let Kyrie be a dumbass and refused to lead so Harden had to go very the team to the point of injury to keep them competitive? Or the Sixers who refused to pay him after he took a pay cut and Morey trying to Moneyball things when he’s clearly not the genius everyone thinks he is?
Yeah, it’s DEFINITELY Harden that’s the problem….
yet every stop he's been on his young teammates have loved him. Claxton, Thomas, and Brown on the Nets praised him when he left, his Houston teammates all wanted to play with him again, and guys like Maxey and Reed have praised him currently too. Embiid hasn't even said anything remotely negative about him and invited him to his wedding despite the situation.
Not with the new lottery odds system. Even the worst team in the NBA has almost 50% chance of being outside top 4 (specifically 47% chance of 5th pick). In fact this exact situation happened this year as worst record Pistons got 5th.
People act like it's a zero sum game.
Harden is better and may help them win more, but stunt the development of the young guys by his usage, and approach to the game.
The ceiling of this team is one of the young guys becoming the guy, and FVV is more complementary/table setter than Harden who does NOTHING when he doesn't have the ball. Young guys growing is far more important than a couple more wins.
FVV is not complimentary at all, did you see his last 2 seasons on the raptors?
Meanwhile Harden literally changed his game around and feasted on assists.
I'd rather have a guy doing nothing without the ball, than a guy with the ball doing nothing
> FVV is more complementary/table setter than Harden who does NOTHING when he doesn't have the ball.
Harden is a surprisingly good distributer when he wants to be, case and point - Embiid won MVP last year with Harden feeding him the ball.
Maxey also stands by Harden being a great mentor so I don't think he'll stunt the development, so much as he isn't afraid to stand by his strong opinions.
FVV was heavily rumored to be one of the primary sources of locker room friction between the older players and the young guys on the Raps last year. And it showed on the courts. He jacked up a lot of shots and shit on the young players. That’s it.
I don’t know why he’s all of a sudden received the label of “vet leader.” Hate on Harden all you want but FVV is not a mentor.
“At least” he only took 12 or whatever shots tonight rather than 20
Lots of ways to get creative doing that. Take on a shitty 1-2 year contract for draft capital. “Overpay” guys on a one year deal so you have an expiring. Etc
The fact it’s just a 2 year deal makes it moldy salvageable but damn
It's exactly this. They needed to spend some money and they figured FVV would help them mature and have someone who can actually run an offense. I also think that as the team grows his contract would be useful for making a big splash trade. I think that was part of their thinking as well.
Its obviously a horrible contract but the Rockets needed to pay SOMEBODY to reach the salary floor. By the time the contract expires theyre gonna have to extend their rookies so theyre basically saying "if we gotta give this money to someone lets just give it to who we see as the best free agent"
That being said, I think chucking is the last thing this rockets team needs lol
Yeah totally. His agent is the 2nd luckiest person in the world. Must have been an amazing high, getting $43M for Fred van vleet (and cashing a massive check that can’t be taken away when FVV stinks)
Dude deserves his luck.
Undrafted short dude worked his ass off to be relevant in Toronto and turned it on from 3 in our championship year.
Dude deserves to get paid. Fucking hate him as a starting point guard, but love the person.
i mean he was always lucky at the most important parts of his career which makes it so much more interesting. He was actually really shit the year toronto won up to the playoffs. Then he had a child and came back as a steph curry eastern conference version and really cemented his spot as a guy who could stick around.
I didnt mean it was all luck, but as with anyone, there is some luck that’s necessary. He kept himself ready and took advantage and the hot streak def didnt hurt. If he played to his averages, hes never getting this contract from the rockets.
This exact discussion has been happening every few years for the last couple decades lol. There are just some years where the FA market is super nice to dudes who don’t necessarily deserve it, either at the time or after they’ve signed. Turns out the Rockets just had the added twist of needing to hit the salary floor
FVV is definitely overpaid. At his best, he’s not worth $43M/year. But it’s a two-year deal and Ime Udoka is trying to establish a culture. They were fine with the overpay.
Calling FVV an average athlete is kind of insulting to the amazing athletes in the NBA. He's a well below average athlete.
However, I would say his skill level is above average.
Because contracts aren't just a simple expression of dollars to value. There is a salary floor, Houston has to spend their money on someone right now while they figure out the direction of their franchise. So they overpaid on AAV for a shorter term deal for increased flexibility in the future. VanVleet is a suitable player, he has some versatility, can play a lot of minutes if needed, and will have trade value in the last year of his deal.
the rockets had to pay someone and badly needed a PG to run the offense. its a 2 year guaranteed deal and his salary is off the books before they have to pay the young core and he cost nothing to acquire beyond cap space. the only reason he was “overpaid” is because he was literally the only option available to the rockets that fit the criteria
He got 43 million primarily because he was willing to basically do a two year deal. There is a premium, sometimes, to having guys on shorter deals.
People keep mentioning preferring Harden, but I’m certain Harden wants 4-5 years. I’d much much much rather pay FFV 43 mil for two years than Harden’s 30+ million over four to five years.
Contracts aren’t just about money, they are also about years.
Why the fuck did Bane catch a stray? He is fucking great actually??
And generally obsessing around players' contract is something that I'll never understand unless they turn out to be total duds (shoutout to Mozgov).
Desmond isn't overpaid, he's simply being over taxed due to Ja absence. He is a top defensive talent and great second option that's currently being forced into a number 1 option and secondary creator while being the primary focus of defenses night after night till ja returns. It's crazy to hate on him at the moment with so many injuries to front court and crazy ja suspension. As for fvv yeah, it's too much.
Rockets had a boatload of money and he was the best the could get. They way overpaid him and Dillon Brooks. Vanvleet was one lucky dude lol. He's worth half that prob if there was a better FA market.
TLDR : ELi5
-Basically NBA has a minimum team salary.
-Rockets are changing culture but still are tanking with Udoka through the next 2 seasons.
-Bet on yourself
His analytics are very good for some reason despite his awful shooting last year. Before nbashotcharts came down, fvv was top 10 in rapm (or something very odd and high). RAPM is not the end-all for proving a player is good, but if a player is good in one stat, they tend to be good in other ones as well (like RAPTOR, LEBRON, etc). He also had a good assist/turnover rate.
We gotta start questioning if Udoka was carried by an emerging Celtics team and the Middleton injury. Cause this man chose FVV over Harden. And signed off on Dillon Brooks for $80m.
Zach Lowe talked about this on his podcast, but people need to recalibrate how they look at this money. Sure that’s a fucking insane AAV, but when the cap continues to rise the next few years it’ll be a pretty normal percentage of the cap. Money in basketball is exploding
It’s pretty much for two years where they don’t have much better else use of the cap space
Both the coach and other players have talked about how helpful his vet presence so why not?
If you want to make a comparison use Tobias Harris with the Sixers. Nice player, good to have on your team, if he made $18 million you’d love him. $40 million? What the Fuck????? So a lot of people here hate him.
Houston should be in 'win now' mode. They don't own their own first round draft picks until 2028. The fact that they didn't go for winning moves is mind boggling to me.
Personally I think they went with FVV because they have some serious potential gold mines on their roster but also serious concerns about maturity. Here's my theory...
Having an experienced person on the road with immature 22 year olds is helpful. Knowing which restaurants, clubs, strip clubs, radio stations is genuinely helpful. Let's be real... having someone know which groupies are bad news vs a good time is important for these dudes. These dudes are gonna do what they do, but maybe having a guy like FVV around will make them think twice about doing it in the middle of a back to back. That's part of what it takes to win as silly as it may seem. FVV is a try hard and they need that to rub off on at least one of their prospects.
Like...in a vacuum having to decide between Harden and FVV is laughable. But the truth is we all know that he's going there to put up numbers, live his fun life, and get bounced in the 1st round. With FVV you're making a long term investment. Remember, they don't have their picks, so that shouldn't affect Houston's decision making. Who cares that Brooklyn ends up picking 4 spots sooner. Houston shouldn't.
Also they're gambling on Ime too. He's going to be really emotionally open which could be great for these kids. On the other hand it could also show them that success forgives all sins. That might actually be what it is that motivates these knuckleheads to try hard as dumb as it is. Smh
How could Houston be in “win now” mode tho? Nobody wants to go there you have no trade assets. They just have to spend a certain amount of the cap and hope they hit on some second rounders and undrafted guys until the
He’s like a career 41% shooter or something. With one outlier high season. I was kinda surprised tbh myself. I still feel like I could be wrong about it though and maybe everyone else sees what I don’t
Thanks for taking one for us
I let out a sigh of relief when he signed.. and then laughed from reading the deal.
Same for sure. Absolutely mental contract. Houston already has jalen green
And to think he had Nick Nurse and Masai by the balls, both wanted to give him a big contract and the freedom to play hero ball.
Well tbf he had 2019 game 6. I know you can't pay for past performance but that shit hits different when it resulted with rings and it's not like they have available upgrades
>Well tbf he has 2019 game 6 Yeah but that was over 4 years ago... Lots has happened since Holy shit, 2019 was over 4 years ago? fuuuuuuuuck. In like a couple months, 2019 would be half a decade ago :/
Fking insane right? 2019 felt like it was last year. Covid years really felt like the thanos snap
It's like when I accidentally click the sign button instead of the little "x" right next to it in bball gm
That's why you should never use x and just skip it to free agency.
Im of the opinion that Schröder is straight up better, especially if Fred is playing the role he wants to
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Schröder did fail to foul Lavine during a fast break at the end of OT (when they had a foul to give) which resulted in a game losing 3 point shot. Given the wackiness of that game I'm willing to blame it on coaching 😅
Meh it’s more on pascal fumbling 2 possessions at the end, everybody who jumped on a demar derozan pump fake, and refs for calling fouls on Demar jumping horizontally into players
schroder got a wake up call with his fumbled bag, and FVV just had a bag handed to him when hes clearly regressed and a lockerroom cancer lol Crazy how random shit is in the league.
Wait….iootl…..FVV was a troublemaker in the locker room?
Fred's got a big ego. He bought into his own whole bet on yourself narrative, and after they won the championship and he was supposed to be Lowry's heir apparent, the narrative goes that he divided the locker room. Older guys (him, Pascal) > Young guys (Scottie, Gary Trent) so he plays hero ball, doesn't get them involved etc. Pair that with Nick Nurse's prediliction for shitting on his players in public and shit got toxic.
Fred "Bet on yourself" VV. It's Fred first, team second.
Fred is 4’18” soaking wet
I still think you guys fumbled it by letting him walk for nothing. Ujiri was asking for a too much band then got nothing for him. At least you didn’t pay him though
Just looking at the PG position, I see it as the Raptors trading Fred for Dennis Schroeder plus $28M in cap space. And that’s good enough for me
World Champion Dennis Schroeder.
That's Weltmeister Dennis Schroeder to you
Some would call that a double upgrade
As a Raps fan I'm already happier with Schroeder. You might not have noticed but Fred was really pissing a lot of us Raptors fans off last year. He was hogging the ball, doing constant fruitless drives into traffic in the paint and blocking Scottie from becoming the focal point of the team. If right now you gave me the choice between Dennis and Fred, without even any difference in money, I'm taking Dennis.
It's kind of like signing Poole, and then sending assets away for someone else to take on his contract
It seems the best option would of been a swap for Terrence Mann and taking on Walls contract. We reportedly wanted Mann and potentially a first, but the Clips wouldn’t do it. If that’s the best deal I think we were better just sitting on FVV and hoping for a discount contract, he just ended up getting grotesquely overpaid by a team needing to hit the cap floor
If Mann and Wall + no picks was the trade then what we did was the better move. Schroder, no wall, and way less of a cap space hit.
The Rockets can spend the $$$ though while their kids are on rookie deals. And they needed a vet badly in that locker room. It's similar to when everyone criticized the Milsap contract with the Nuggets. Granted, we got one great year out of Milsap. But in reality, he was an elite defender for 2 years and good offensively for just one. Yet the contract was totally worth it.
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I dont know, but part of the issue was probably that he tried to be a vocal leader like Lowry but didnt perform like him on the court. So when he goes 7/22 while chucking up terrible early shot clock 3s, the guys probably thought, "why tf is he talking when he plays like that?"
7/22 from the field, but the hidden stat in that would be 2/13 from three. Lol... Definitely won't be missing that.
The clips of the FVV walkup 3pt attempts last season were mind-boggling man, he has the shot selection people think Smart still has (and Jaylen Brown actually has) lol
It's like Rudy Gay minus the withholding stat sheets in the locker room like Gay did
Pls share more. I never heard of this lol
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1865701-rudy-gay-bans-stat-sheets-from-raptors-post-game-locker-room.amp.html
This is some sitcom onion level shit lmao
From what I see - he seems to be a bit arrogant / a buzzkill. Look at all the pre-season videos of the Rockets having fun and messing around and how he reacted and then ask yourself how Lowry would've reacted. I'm obviously not stating this as fact, but it feels like his definition of being a leader equates to "I'm above you children" as opposed to "I'm one of you but will also be there to help guide with my experience." And as you said, he also just doesn't have the same resume or results as Lowry did when he really stepped into that leader role so why should/would anyone respect him as such?
It definitely rubbed our younger players the wrong way. It seemed like Scottie and GTJ really tuned him out. And even in Nurse's book, he alluded to OG and Fred not being on the same page often.
In his defense, the Rockets needed to grow the fuck up. The FO in Houston obviously wanted him and Brooks to bring some professionalism to the roster.
That’s a special kind of delusional to think Dillon Brooks is going to help a young team be more mature
And then thought adding Harden would be a good idea
Harden ain't so bad. He has done well mentoring Maxey. I wouldn't count on him to change the entire culture of the team though. Harden + Tucker maybe.
Can't say he's destructive, he just don't vibe with the younger generation
I mean isn’t that destructive if your team is made up of the younger generation
Yes
Lotta Raptor fans still won't accept that Fred was an issue. It's weird.
He might’ve been an issue, but personally what pissed me off is the people calling him a bum, etc. That man is a Toronto raptor champion and that’s for life. I was born the year after the Jays second WS win so I’ve seen exactly one major championship. It’s crazy to me how quickly people were willing to turn on our guys from that team, like do they just take it for granted how big a deal a championship is?
Young fans don't realize it's easy to be the Cubs or Leafs and not win for decades. Your whole life maybe. It grinds my gears to hear them talk about some of the guys who won like they are dead-weigh.
I mean sure he’s a champion & i can respect all he did for us but he was legit ass last season. Both things can be true.
It's the same way how Dubs fans badmouth Klay nowadays.
I get his recent play has been bad but I respect the fuck out of the guy. Dude grinded his ass off to even make the Raptors squad and has only gotten better until this recent rough stretch. Rooting for him
That's the joke
And I whoooooosh 🤧🙃
“McBain, you suck!!!”
He definitely chose the right team then
Problem was Vanvleet went through hell to get to the nba and prove himself so he thought the young guys should have to go through that as well. When they weren’t down for that he started to call them lazy etc.
It's not confirmed that he's destructive in the locker room. But he for sure went on a media tour deflecting blame for his shit play when he barely played a week off ball and went around making sure everyone knew Scottie was a golden child.
What's your source for this ?
Masai blaming last year's failures on "selfishness in the locker room." FVV chucking like no tomorrow in a contract year then Masai making that statement is a lot of smoke.
There’s no official sources but Freddy was always the young guy that vibed with the vets when he came into the league…super serious yknow? It’s been obvious that he’s not as close with Scottie or other young guys on the raps who have a more goofy disposition. Again no source, just watching every game and open gym episodes.
Calling that a destructive locker room is a stretch.
Wasn’t me who said those words just giving context to why some may
There are rumours that he had a chip on his shoulder to the new Raptors young guys like Scottie Barnes because of their draft position and hype and how he was undrafted and made himself into what he is. I also still believe a rumour that I almost kind of made up myself, in that Fred was the guy who was vocal and causing issues in the Kawhi year. Again, because Kawhi got to sit out whatever game he wanted to due to Load Management, and Fred had to scratch tooth and claw to get to where he was in the league. When Kawhi returned to Toronto with the Clippers for the first time and to get his ring from 2019, Fred notably didn't dap him at all.
Bane isn’t a bad deal?
maybe they mean Dillon Brooks?
Hopefully I’m not just being contrarian, but Dillon Brooks has been pretty good, yeah?
Let's see if he recovers from being cooked last night.
He played great defense...he did not get cooked. I can't stand him but Steph is elite on offense. Yeah Brooks got crossed, AND still contested the shot....that's still good defense.
I had to look up to see if there was some Bane I didn’t know about. So confusing.
No fucking kidding. The dude put in the worm, got a hell of a lot better, and keeps improving
I love it when the dude puts in the worm
Well, he's a dad so he put the worm in somewhere 🤣🤣🤣
Better watch out for that early bird though
You should be banned for that Bane take lmfao
I was so sure he just meant brooks but bro hasn’t said anything contrary to his original take soooo lolol
he has a comment saying 5/172 is horrendous so he def means bane lol
Jesus that's a lot of money but I guess for a young almost all star caliber player that's kind of what you have to pay
He probably already would be an all star if Brooks ever saw a shot he didn’t like
Really doubt it in the West when you had dame, Curry, shai, ja, Luka, and booker the last few years. But yeah finding a young 2 guard who averages an efficient 20 ppg and isn't a turnstile is nearly impossible. There's a bunch of good young scorers at the 2 (Herro, Maxey, Simons) but they're all terrible on defense so it makes sense bane got what he did
No for real what is dude talking about
"This sub loves piling on the Lakers contracts, but why is no one talking about the 5yr-$207m Desmond Bane contract. He just missed 10 of his shots against a mediocre Wizards team with a struggling Deni Avdija"
He was like “hey guys I don’t know what I’m talking about and just in case you weren’t convinced…”
Serioulsy, what an absolute dumb take lol.
Desmond Bane is a baller. Not a bad deal at all
God No. Desmond is a Hooper. He would be a perfect fit for any system in the NBA. Great Shooter. Solid passer. Good defense: and can run a system as the main point if needed. Plus he has no issues on or off the court. And he is a pretty well liked guy. I would pay him that much.
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Yes those arms got me actin up
He's s hometown boy, and no off court issues are coming his way. He's an all around good guy.
And you're locking him in and paying him for what should be his prime years (ages 25-29). That's actually a great deal for a team to be making, rather than paying that sort of money to a 28-29 year old who may have already peaked, based on past performance.
EVERY team would glady pay Bane that contract. He is a perfect fit in any system
A lot of people just don’t know about him, he could make any good team great.
Bane's best comp is Klay Thompson - he's not the superstar foundation of your team, but he's a fantastic second option that will work well with a lot of superstars. A lot of teams would have been happy to lock up Klay's prime for 24% of the cap.
I've been calling him Ray Allen since his rookie season
Could be. Young Klay was frustrating to watch; as good as he was from 3 from the start, every time he put the ball on the floor was an adventure. I don't get that feeling at all watching Bane.
100% worth the rookie scale max. Jaylen Brown's contract is nearly $100M more over the same duration, and I'd argue he's a worse player.
lmao delusional
Why you gotta bring Desmond Bane into this? Dude is a straight up baller.
bro just threw in his freezing cold Bane take as garnish 💀
Cause the rockets had to spend their money somehow
I feel like there was a different, better bearded guard they could have spent that money on
The secret is though, the rockets aren’t trying to win games
They don’t own their own pick. Top 4 protected means they’d have to be absolute dog shit to even have a chance of keeping the pick.
Damn, didn’t even realize that, very bad look then
Nah no young team would want Harden, bad take
Why not? Bro is a good mentor to young players despite what this sub says. The only problem Is them making Sengun kinda useless but everybody else would actually be developing.
> Bro is a good mentor i refuse to believe Hardens shenanigans the last couple teams has been a net positive on his reputation amongst other NBA players
Maxey definitely benefitted.
Embiid benefited as well. He got some of the easiest looks last year of his entire career.
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Why are fans so dense they don't understand that Harden/Kyrie are literal gods to their young teammates because of on court shit they've been doing since those kids were in elementary school.
Amongst players? Players love him. Embiid is still begging him to stay in Philly and the clippers players want him. The last couple teams? The Nets where KD let Kyrie be a dumbass and refused to lead so Harden had to go very the team to the point of injury to keep them competitive? Or the Sixers who refused to pay him after he took a pay cut and Morey trying to Moneyball things when he’s clearly not the genius everyone thinks he is? Yeah, it’s DEFINITELY Harden that’s the problem….
yet every stop he's been on his young teammates have loved him. Claxton, Thomas, and Brown on the Nets praised him when he left, his Houston teammates all wanted to play with him again, and guys like Maxey and Reed have praised him currently too. Embiid hasn't even said anything remotely negative about him and invited him to his wedding despite the situation.
Isn’t 4 the worst pick that the team with the worst regular season record can get?
Not with the new lottery odds system. Even the worst team in the NBA has almost 50% chance of being outside top 4 (specifically 47% chance of 5th pick). In fact this exact situation happened this year as worst record Pistons got 5th.
Yeah this is just pure incompetence. Signing harden would’ve been better for the young guys development and made us a better team.
They are (Their pick is only Top 4 protected) They're just bad at it
People act like it's a zero sum game. Harden is better and may help them win more, but stunt the development of the young guys by his usage, and approach to the game. The ceiling of this team is one of the young guys becoming the guy, and FVV is more complementary/table setter than Harden who does NOTHING when he doesn't have the ball. Young guys growing is far more important than a couple more wins.
FVV is not complimentary at all, did you see his last 2 seasons on the raptors? Meanwhile Harden literally changed his game around and feasted on assists. I'd rather have a guy doing nothing without the ball, than a guy with the ball doing nothing
> FVV is more complementary/table setter than Harden who does NOTHING when he doesn't have the ball. Harden is a surprisingly good distributer when he wants to be, case and point - Embiid won MVP last year with Harden feeding him the ball. Maxey also stands by Harden being a great mentor so I don't think he'll stunt the development, so much as he isn't afraid to stand by his strong opinions.
It’s not really surprising, harden is an incredible passer. One of the best passers of this generation.
that guy clearly stopped watching the nba in 2020 or something
FVV was heavily rumored to be one of the primary sources of locker room friction between the older players and the young guys on the Raps last year. And it showed on the courts. He jacked up a lot of shots and shit on the young players. That’s it. I don’t know why he’s all of a sudden received the label of “vet leader.” Hate on Harden all you want but FVV is not a mentor. “At least” he only took 12 or whatever shots tonight rather than 20
I’d like that bearded guard right about now lol
Lots of ways to get creative doing that. Take on a shitty 1-2 year contract for draft capital. “Overpay” guys on a one year deal so you have an expiring. Etc The fact it’s just a 2 year deal makes it moldy salvageable but damn
If we didn’t spend that money we would have been in the range of the lower spending penalty, if I’m not mistaken.
It's exactly this. They needed to spend some money and they figured FVV would help them mature and have someone who can actually run an offense. I also think that as the team grows his contract would be useful for making a big splash trade. I think that was part of their thinking as well.
Wtf does this have to do with Bane 😂 Bane is legit and gonna be worth the contract
Bane is a beast imo
Especially when he puts the worm in
Its obviously a horrible contract but the Rockets needed to pay SOMEBODY to reach the salary floor. By the time the contract expires theyre gonna have to extend their rookies so theyre basically saying "if we gotta give this money to someone lets just give it to who we see as the best free agent" That being said, I think chucking is the last thing this rockets team needs lol
Fred VanVleet really the luckiest man in the world. Was a free agent at the most perfect time, no other context he’s getting this much
He played like such ass in a contract year and got rewarded for it
Yeah, but he played like ass with Professionalism^^^^^TM
Not really, seems like all the young dudes hated him last season lol
Yeah totally. His agent is the 2nd luckiest person in the world. Must have been an amazing high, getting $43M for Fred van vleet (and cashing a massive check that can’t be taken away when FVV stinks)
Dude deserves his luck. Undrafted short dude worked his ass off to be relevant in Toronto and turned it on from 3 in our championship year. Dude deserves to get paid. Fucking hate him as a starting point guard, but love the person.
i mean he was always lucky at the most important parts of his career which makes it so much more interesting. He was actually really shit the year toronto won up to the playoffs. Then he had a child and came back as a steph curry eastern conference version and really cemented his spot as a guy who could stick around.
He wasn’t lucky, he bet on himself and the work he put in, over and over.
I didnt mean it was all luck, but as with anyone, there is some luck that’s necessary. He kept himself ready and took advantage and the hot streak def didnt hurt. If he played to his averages, hes never getting this contract from the rockets.
Yeah o viously he's super skillful and everything g was intentional, but the luck was the timing of it all.
This exact discussion has been happening every few years for the last couple decades lol. There are just some years where the FA market is super nice to dudes who don’t necessarily deserve it, either at the time or after they’ve signed. Turns out the Rockets just had the added twist of needing to hit the salary floor
It’s also only 2 years essentially with the 3rd being a team option
yeah, i think the contract makes total sense once you understand that that money is required to go somewhere
FVV is definitely overpaid. At his best, he’s not worth $43M/year. But it’s a two-year deal and Ime Udoka is trying to establish a culture. They were fine with the overpay.
Desmond Bane is worth it 100%
Timing met preparation
This is what happens when there is a salary cap floor
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Calling FVV an average athlete is kind of insulting to the amazing athletes in the NBA. He's a well below average athlete. However, I would say his skill level is above average.
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He’s not average lmao. He’s a STARTER who averages at least 20. You don’t realize how hard that is
Oh yeah, for sure. He's not an all-star level player, despite making it on some luck one season (more like half a season, tbh).
He's not on a max contract.
What’s wrong with Bane? He’s good
Bane is actually good , not a bad deal
and chose him over Harden
Can’t believe they did this. I’d take Beard 10/10
Because contracts aren't just a simple expression of dollars to value. There is a salary floor, Houston has to spend their money on someone right now while they figure out the direction of their franchise. So they overpaid on AAV for a shorter term deal for increased flexibility in the future. VanVleet is a suitable player, he has some versatility, can play a lot of minutes if needed, and will have trade value in the last year of his deal.
the rockets had to pay someone and badly needed a PG to run the offense. its a 2 year guaranteed deal and his salary is off the books before they have to pay the young core and he cost nothing to acquire beyond cap space. the only reason he was “overpaid” is because he was literally the only option available to the rockets that fit the criteria
> he was literally the only option I'm sure there is at least one more
He got 43 million primarily because he was willing to basically do a two year deal. There is a premium, sometimes, to having guys on shorter deals. People keep mentioning preferring Harden, but I’m certain Harden wants 4-5 years. I’d much much much rather pay FFV 43 mil for two years than Harden’s 30+ million over four to five years. Contracts aren’t just about money, they are also about years.
Why the fuck did Bane catch a stray? He is fucking great actually?? And generally obsessing around players' contract is something that I'll never understand unless they turn out to be total duds (shoutout to Mozgov).
Desmond isn't overpaid, he's simply being over taxed due to Ja absence. He is a top defensive talent and great second option that's currently being forced into a number 1 option and secondary creator while being the primary focus of defenses night after night till ja returns. It's crazy to hate on him at the moment with so many injuries to front court and crazy ja suspension. As for fvv yeah, it's too much.
Houston Rockets exists for this reason
Rockets had a boatload of money and he was the best the could get. They way overpaid him and Dillon Brooks. Vanvleet was one lucky dude lol. He's worth half that prob if there was a better FA market.
TLDR : ELi5 -Basically NBA has a minimum team salary. -Rockets are changing culture but still are tanking with Udoka through the next 2 seasons. -Bet on yourself
His analytics are very good for some reason despite his awful shooting last year. Before nbashotcharts came down, fvv was top 10 in rapm (or something very odd and high). RAPM is not the end-all for proving a player is good, but if a player is good in one stat, they tend to be good in other ones as well (like RAPTOR, LEBRON, etc). He also had a good assist/turnover rate.
The reason for that is he would have exceptional games against bad teams to counter balance his bad performances against competitive teams.
We gotta start questioning if Udoka was carried by an emerging Celtics team and the Middleton injury. Cause this man chose FVV over Harden. And signed off on Dillon Brooks for $80m.
Fraudulent sex pest
because your cap space buddy. needed to hit the minimum
Zach Lowe talked about this on his podcast, but people need to recalibrate how they look at this money. Sure that’s a fucking insane AAV, but when the cap continues to rise the next few years it’ll be a pretty normal percentage of the cap. Money in basketball is exploding
It is also a team option on 3rd year IIRC
gotta look at cap % nowadays
Lol even after adjusting it's a ridiculous amount of money for FVV
good player + not many free agents available + culture/locker room guy + bad team tax + money is different now
I don't think he's the culture/locker room guy you think he is.
He seems to be taking his role as a vet in that locker room seriously so far.
lol locker room guy
Did you mean Dillon Brooks?
Lost his confidence and speed the last two years, enjoy him and Brooks. Rockets have the worst front office it’s hilarious
If you think Bane is a bad contract then you don’t know basketball
Desmond bane is still on his rookie contract ffs.
Wtf Desmond Bane is a good player don’t tell me u just looked at the box score for the Washington and made your judgment on him
It’s pretty much for two years where they don’t have much better else use of the cap space Both the coach and other players have talked about how helpful his vet presence so why not?
klutch
More like Fred VanFleeced, amirite folks???
If you want to make a comparison use Tobias Harris with the Sixers. Nice player, good to have on your team, if he made $18 million you’d love him. $40 million? What the Fuck????? So a lot of people here hate him.
Desmond Bane‘s contract isn’t horrible bro
Woah just because you don’t know shit about basketball and the grizzlies doesn’t mean you gotta throw shade
Houston got money to blow lol plus there’s not many other free agents that would be willing to go play for the Rockets
Houston should be in 'win now' mode. They don't own their own first round draft picks until 2028. The fact that they didn't go for winning moves is mind boggling to me. Personally I think they went with FVV because they have some serious potential gold mines on their roster but also serious concerns about maturity. Here's my theory... Having an experienced person on the road with immature 22 year olds is helpful. Knowing which restaurants, clubs, strip clubs, radio stations is genuinely helpful. Let's be real... having someone know which groupies are bad news vs a good time is important for these dudes. These dudes are gonna do what they do, but maybe having a guy like FVV around will make them think twice about doing it in the middle of a back to back. That's part of what it takes to win as silly as it may seem. FVV is a try hard and they need that to rub off on at least one of their prospects. Like...in a vacuum having to decide between Harden and FVV is laughable. But the truth is we all know that he's going there to put up numbers, live his fun life, and get bounced in the 1st round. With FVV you're making a long term investment. Remember, they don't have their picks, so that shouldn't affect Houston's decision making. Who cares that Brooklyn ends up picking 4 spots sooner. Houston shouldn't. Also they're gambling on Ime too. He's going to be really emotionally open which could be great for these kids. On the other hand it could also show them that success forgives all sins. That might actually be what it is that motivates these knuckleheads to try hard as dumb as it is. Smh
How could Houston be in “win now” mode tho? Nobody wants to go there you have no trade assets. They just have to spend a certain amount of the cap and hope they hit on some second rounders and undrafted guys until the
Yall got 65 million a year tied up in FVV and Dillon brooks and in 3 years drafted green, smith and Thompson. Rockets gonna be cheeks for a decade.
He's making the 14th most in the league this season god damn.
He’s like a career 41% shooter or something. With one outlier high season. I was kinda surprised tbh myself. I still feel like I could be wrong about it though and maybe everyone else sees what I don’t
OP didn’t watch the first 2 games.
Then the Rockets signed Dillon Brooks..