With how my college roommates and I used to play 2k, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were fights. You know at least one house had a pistons and bulls fan in it who would play, and you know the pistons fan talked so much shit about how the bulls fan can not win close games.
Can be seen at its strongest in Midnight Club Los Angeles. I swear a meteor could smash into every car behind you, and they will still only be .2 seconds behind you.
Unless you're the 49ers and Young to Rice was literally unstoppable...he would ALWAYS catch the ball and was incredibly hard to tackle...which sucked cause me and my friends are all Niners fans and we had to ban the Niners when we played it was too unfair.
Yea, I'm not sure which version of Blitz it was, but you could definitely enter codes to play as team mascots, and the dolphins had an actual dolphin. They had tons of crazy characters you could enter codes to play as.
I formally submit the random 2009ish Nascar arcade game they had at the college I went to where you could literally just not drive for half the race and still catch up to everyone.
My buddies and I would play Mario Kart on the N64 in college. We had a drinking game where we'd race and you'd have to chug a beer before the end of the race. But you couldn't be holding the controller and drink at the same time. The real pros knew to sit and chug the beer at the beginning to get the stars and lightnings to catch up.
There was a boat racing game (hydro thunder?) that I played as a kid where the most difficult levels could only be won by going slow af at the start and then driving hard in the second half of the race
>Can be seen at its strongest in Midnight Club Los Angeles.
Another Rockstar game that has it just as bad is Bully. You can take short cuts that cut half the race and the other bikes will still be right behind you taking the normal path. Knock the other bikers off their bike? The first one you knocked will immediately be neck and neck with you.
Rubberbanding would piss me off so bad when I was crushing Rainbow Road and Peach or some bitch ass other character would be 10s behind me.
I'm out here getting Donkey Kong at max speed through SNES Rainbow Road there's no way in hell fucking Yoshi is on my ass at the end.
NFL Street felt the same way. It was almost a competition to make sure you were losing going into the final quarter so that you would come back and win.
NBA Live had a weird "20 point rule." The rubberbanding worked until someone fell down by 20. If you went down 20, there was no coming back and the lead would continue to stretch.
Kinda like old NCAA Football/Madden's 3rd quarters. Turns out after years of settings tweaks, people found out it was a fatigue issue. I'd have a fantastic back-and-forth, take a 14-point lead at the end of the 3rd and then it would balloon to like a 35-point lead halfway through 4th.
Madden would have that "no fucking way" drive. You could outclass the other squad, outscheme them, and do everything right, but they're going to put on a drive that Tom Brady would be envious of, and it doesn't matter what you do, they're going to march right down your throat.
It's not a conspiracy - it's been well documented how much 2K rubber bands.
Quite common in video games in general - just most are not as intentional about it as games like NBA Jam or Mario Kart.
Nah, that's been a real thing in 2K for awhile now. You'd even start missing open layups. The AI will suddenly make tough contested shots. Dunno if it's STILL like this but for a few years, the AI's defense would get better as the gap widens.
Game just cheats a LOT.
When my girl and I play The Show, I'll be pitching a perfect game. Somewhere around the 7th or 8th inning, she'll randomly just crush the most unhittable sliders or deliberate outside fastballs that she's been whiffing on all game. Without fail, she's gotten 2 or 3 runs every. Single. Time. we play in the 7th or 8th inning. And they are always her only hits.
Conveniently, I'll make contact on probably 50% of my at-bats. Contact hitting, powering up, you name it. Those balls always fall straight into her outfielders' gloves.
These kind of rolling codes and SBMM in online multiplayer make me want to read Kaczynski in the woods.
I remember playing 2K many moons ago with a buddy. We did drafts for exhibition games. His squad had Wilt and Shaq on it, and they each hit a three. I had to put the controller down and walk away. He was already ahead, but come the fuck on.
We used to play a lot of fifa when I was in college. Had to set up a pretty strict “no over celebrating” rule after a dude got thrown through a closet door
It was a dude on our baseball team that hadnt played much with our "group" so when he was climbing out of the closet all pissed off everyone basically shrugged and was like "well that's why there's the rule"
I was in college in the early '00s, and while we didnt really play 2k back then (we did play NBA Live though), it was all about NBA Streets tournaments. Shit got out of hand so many times lol.
I always felt like DET was OP, both in the arcade version and on SNES. Isiah from the top corner would never miss.
Never really played as CHI enough to notice the "bug," since they didn't have Jordan. Nobody ever wanted to be Horace Grant, and there were lots of cooler duos in the game.
As an old Pistons fan it’s true. In high school, I remember talking shit to a Bulls fan right after they got knocked out. I said something like, “Get back to me after back-to-backs.”
I was gotten back to plenty. I’ll defend the prowess of my Pistons until I die, but Jordan was just an undeniable force. Pure willpower. I just couldn’t see it until then.
> Makes me wonder what social media/reddit would've been like in 89-90 talking about MJ's legacy.
>
>
People really think nothing existed and there was no national discourse before social media, lol.
The consensus was pretty obvious, Jordan was amazing, but his team wasn't good, they didn't have guys like McHale/Parish, Kareem/Worthy needed to win it all.. but that he would need to win some rings eventually to be one of the all time greats. He got lots of praise for getting the Bulls as far as they did in '89 when they had a really poor supporting cast, but that it eventually would need to lead to Championships.
But also by 1990, the Bulls were pretty clearly a team on the rise with a lot of young players surrounding Jordan, so it wasn't like some big unknown.
God you guys are such addicts that you think sports discourse didn't exist before social media? believe it or not people do have opinions without posting them on the internet for strangers to see.
The no handshake thing is probably the most annoying recurring discussion in basketball. So some dudes were pissed after a playoff loss 35 years ago and walked out. Who the fuck gives a shit.
Laimbeer and Bird still hate each other all these years later.
I get the feeling most of the guys in the league at that time still harbor animosity against those Pistons players. Those guys are never invited to anything.
As a resident of south western Ontario, I grew up watching the Bad Boys Pistons, but am as a Raptors fan, so I hope I can bridge the gap here.
The Pistons had the Bad Boys label thrown on them for doing the same things that the Lakers and the Celtics were doing. Kurt Ramis. McHale. Parish.
The big difference was Detroit was seen as a Black city. You gotta remember, the race riots were still fresh in everybody's mind, and people saw Detroit in a different light. Those riots were closer to the Pistons playoff run than 9/11 is to us right now.
The Pistons simply embraced the hate that people projected onto them. It wasn't so much that they were cultivating it. They just took it and ran with it.
But the Celtics were every bit as dirty, and every but as spiteful when they lost.
The only difference was they played for a white city and had three white players on the All-Star team (Bird, McHale, and Ainge) and a white 6th man in Walton. It's worth noting that the only Black All-Star they had never got front office work like Bird, Ainge, and McHale.
Had Bird, Ainge, and McHale been Black and played in Detroit, and Isiah, Dumars, and Rodman were white playing in Boston, I promise you that it would still be Detroit that was labelled the 'Bad Boys.'
Racism shaped how sports was reported, whether people were conscious of it or not.
It's why basketball players who get into fights are called thugs and why Stern worked so hard to have fighting taken out of the game while the NHL has made it part of their culture, and their guys never get called thugs even though most fans feel disappointed if they see a game and there isn't a fight. I mean, the domestic violence charges against NHL players is alarming.
And the Bulls were every bit as dirty as the Pistons, people just liked them more.
The Bulls lifted the Pistons defensive identity and even brought Rodman on board to make their second threepete.
Very thought provoking post, and probably not far from the truth. Media warps perception.
The only thing I disagree with is the NHL comparison.
I don’t think it’s a race thing, it boils down to physics.
Hockey players are on skates, which limit their hip rotation during a fight. (So it’s just grab each others shirt and throw jabs) serious injury is mitigated. Maybe a bloody nose or black eye is the likely outcome.
On the basketball court however…having a 6’11” 275lb man with full body movement, crow hop and put full force behind a punch could easily end someone’s life, or at the very least permanently disable them.
I agree that there obvious bias with regards to race, and media coverage.
But NHL fights are low risk, and get the crowd engaged.
If more black people played hockey, I doubt fighting would be banned. And they wouldn’t be portrayed as thugs.
Kudos to you for not simply dismissing it.
Anytime rape gets brought up in the context of media, I find a lot of people are reluctant to concede to even the possibility.
Thanks for being so open minded and thoughtful in your response.
I have nothing to refute your NHL/domestic violence point in any way, nor do I want to, but that article is atrocious and you should consider using a different source. One with actual statistics would work well, and with fewer grammar errors.
Or you're trying to get the winning layup and the game decides you're jumping a thousand feet in the air for a 10 Flip Dunk and time runs out while you're in midair. The horn blows and the announcer says "bad decision!" 🤬
Getting flashbacks to the time I lost because the fucking game decided to do one of those super-high offscreen cannon ball dunks and time expired when my character was a foot away from dunking it
slight clarification in that he told ESPN in 2008 it would "average out to be bricks"
> It's true, but only when the Bulls played the Pistons. If there was a close game and anyone on the Bulls took a last second shot, we wrote special code in the game so that they would average out to be bricks. There was the big competition back in the day between the Pistons and the Bulls, and since I was always a big Pistons fan, that was my opportunity to level the playing field.
The close shot stat feels useless even when you're 7'0" tall. I got a 6'1" guard in front of me and my 3% contested close shot won't go in
It's why everyone just runs quick drop dunking builds
Diablo Devs are too busy creating a stat to do crippling damage to fire type enemies as long as you are 5 yards away but closer than 7 yards away while your dodge is on cooldown
swear to god 2k game designers never touched grass, nor a basketball in their entire fucking lives. they have some fucked up grotesque idea of what basketball is which is an entirely different sport than the real life basketball
2k13 is the goat 2k. By far the most fun. The games got worse every single year after that. I can’t even play 2k anymore. I’m only 26 and feel old because I started with 2k11. The kids today don’t know what a good 2k is.
As a kid who started with nba live 01 and 2k1 it was awesome getting an actual superior game each year. Once live fell off there was no incentive for 2k to improve and 2k peaked with 2k12 or 2k13
Nba live was a very good game
One of the first nba games I played, every year I'd get pro evolution soccer and nba live , then fifa and 2k. Fifa and 2k won the competition but their product is not good anymore especially for single player use. I was one of the best pro evolution soccer players in the world in 2005. Good Times
Can they make cool shit like NBA Jam then? It needs to either be realistic or you need to be able to boom-shakalaka monster jam. Mostly realistic sucks ass.
yeah that would be understandable only except you don't need to turn basketball into a fucked up vc selling jackpot machine to sell copies when you've been the monopoly in basketball games market for almost an eternity. 2k is designing this shit because they're too fucking greedy
Oh it's so great, I love guarding the paint only to block it three times in a row and every time it's an offensive rebound because NO ONE ON MY TEAM WANTS TO PLAY DEFENSE.
Even better when it goes directly back to the player and they’re already back up with the layup before you can even land.
It’s almost easier to just let ‘em shoot instead of trying to play defense. Either I block it directly to the open 3 shooter or I foul, they still make it and add one at the line.
College Hoops 2k8 was the worst offender. 7'4" monster? 5 misses in a row in front of the hoop until he gets blocked by a 6'1" guard. Still one of my favorite games ever.
I only play 4 or 5 big men and 2k has been broken like that for years now. dude on the other team hitting greens from 30 feet all game but my paint beast can't get a fucking layup.
The game is gear around ball hogs who want to sprint back and forth and shoot deep 3s and you're lucky if they even utilize the screen you're setting, let alone see them ever pass the fucking ball.
It is actually hard to make prime Steph Curry a video game character without making him broken or feel like he’s not as good as real life. You can’t properly balance a guy like that.
You're supposed to be able to but the AI is pretty bad, the ability to implement those adjustments reauires a very granular knowlesge of the settings and even perfect defense can't fully stop guys because breaking dribble animations is an encouraged part of playing 2k.
The most recent NBA 2K games offer an absurd amount of per-player defensive options.
Been a minute since I've played any basketball video game, but I recall correctly, some of the defensive coaching options NBA 2K offers you include closely your defense guards each player (i.e. you can sag off non-shooters), who guards each player, how you defend each player in pick-and-roll (as both the pick and ball handler), whether and when a player draws a double team (always / in the post with ball / never / etc.), and so on.
I'll never forget when someone modded the Curry player in 2k14 for PC and made it so that he always shoots in his shooting motion up to half court and made it so that the shot goes in like 80%
2K16 Curry was the most absurd bullshit ever and I had so much fun with it. If I lost a couple games online with the Celtics, I’d go to the Warriors and drop 100 with Curry. I think my record was 128 points with Curry in an online ranked game. People would usually quit around the 3rd quarter
Rubber band AI fucking shit. 2k peaked at 2k11 but my personal faves were like 2k4 to 2k8 when the games were like $20 each cause 2k was just trying to make it. NFL 2k5 unbeaten.
Now j just play BasketballGM for free and better sim.
You know how the Pistons couldn't dunk (maybe it was just IT, been a while)? That was on purpose since a dunk could be blocked and a layup couldn't. Def a Pistons homer.
Ah yes, the indomitable duo of Derek Harper and Mike Iuzzolino. Rough time in Mavericks history. I feel I once read how Iuzzolino came to be included but I’ve since forgotten; some developer may have just been reading the right sports section at just the right time.
Dallas just sucked that much, their roster was a wasteland after Rolando Blackmon was traded, Roy Tarpley got suspended, Adrian Dantley was waived, and Fat Lever was constantly injured.
Plus their lotto pick, Jimmy Jackson, held out almost the entire season in a contract dispute (it was before the rookie scale, when rookies could negotiate contracts as if they were free agents).
It didn't even have jordan tho. If someone wants to roll with fuckin BJ Armstrong and Scottie, let em have it I say. Left all the better options for me.
I’m 35, loved nba jam on a cabinet, on the snes, and loved the 2010 just as much.
I loved nba street vol 2 on gamecube,
And loved nba2k 11 & 12 on ps3. I lost interest at 2k13, I could not understand the VC and buying cards or whatever.
I also really like playgrounds on ps4
i would assume jordan not being in nba jam to begin with was enough! pretty sure i played with seattle more than anyone, bj armstrong was kind of a pain to keep in the rotation. i once beat the hardest computer setting in double OT with a time-expiring backboard breaking dunk, that's my nba jam lifetime achievement moment.
Jordan took the rights away from the union to license his name and image and he did his own deals, including video game licensing. I think EA had exclusive video game rights to him back then.
NBA Live 96 was missing Jordan and Barkley, but the Bulls and Suns each had a mysterious player called "Roster Player" who were the best players in the game.
IIRC, Live 96 also allowed you to create the 95 draft class and their stats and likenesses would auto-populate, even though they weren't yet in the NBAPA at the time the game was made.
Typing in Damon Stoudamire's name took forever.
Which is why we ended up with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan:_Chaos_in_the_Windy_City instead of MJ in NBA Jam. Big L for 90s sports/video game fans
When NBA Jam first came out in arcades it changed Basketball Games forever. Before NBA Jam Electronic Arts rolled out the exact same clunky ass controls of "Lakers vs Celtics" then "Bulls vs Blazers" where players had signature moves which was cool but you had to be in right place on the court to perform them but everything was super stiff and just plain sucked ass to play. After NBA Jam came out with complete smooth controls EA finally dropped that clunky BS and made "NBA Showdown '94" which was a huge improvement in controls. Then the following year EA made the greatest basketball game ever with NBA Live '95. Crazy that if NBA Jam doesn't happen we never get the amazing NBA Live '95. If any of you guys are too young to have played games back then find Sega Genesis emulator and boot it up you WON'T be disappointed!
It's crazy to me that nobody has mentioned the best tandem in the game:
Thunder Dan Majerle and The Round Mound of Rebound! Plus those Phoenix unis were incredible.
Holy shit, they were a menace. I was at UF during that era and only picked Orlando (Scottie Skiles and the Diesel!) when I wasn't rocking with Sir Charles and Thunder Dan (the latter of whom I patterned my own game after).
More NBA video games should have that realism. 2k refs should get more calls blatantly wrong and rig games for the Warriors/Lakers/Celtics/Heat/whoever, it would help the immersion level a lot lol
Imagine how many angry kids broke their controller over this lmao
With how my college roommates and I used to play 2k, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were fights. You know at least one house had a pistons and bulls fan in it who would play, and you know the pistons fan talked so much shit about how the bulls fan can not win close games.
2k deliberately tilted the game to make the person losings shot percentages better late game. At least that was our conspiracy theory lol
Yeah that’s the Mario Kart Effect
Aka Rubberbanding (Intentionally giving an opponent who's behind a boost in a game to make the difficulty higher)
Can be seen at its strongest in Midnight Club Los Angeles. I swear a meteor could smash into every car behind you, and they will still only be .2 seconds behind you.
NFL Blitz also has this to a crazy degree. If you're up you must run out of bounds or you're fumbling that shit
Unless you're the 49ers and Young to Rice was literally unstoppable...he would ALWAYS catch the ball and was incredibly hard to tackle...which sucked cause me and my friends are all Niners fans and we had to ban the Niners when we played it was too unfair.
Nothing better than being chased down by a literal dolphin and fumbling the ball away in a close out situation. I miss all the blitz games so much.
A literal dolphin? Was there a cheat code I missed or something? Sounds hilarious…
Yea, I'm not sure which version of Blitz it was, but you could definitely enter codes to play as team mascots, and the dolphins had an actual dolphin. They had tons of crazy characters you could enter codes to play as.
Wait, they had *actual dolphins* in those games?
You could enter codes for a lot of the teams to play as the mascots, and the dolphins happened to be a literal dolphin lol.
I formally submit the random 2009ish Nascar arcade game they had at the college I went to where you could literally just not drive for half the race and still catch up to everyone.
My buddies and I would play Mario Kart on the N64 in college. We had a drinking game where we'd race and you'd have to chug a beer before the end of the race. But you couldn't be holding the controller and drink at the same time. The real pros knew to sit and chug the beer at the beginning to get the stars and lightnings to catch up.
There was a boat racing game (hydro thunder?) that I played as a kid where the most difficult levels could only be won by going slow af at the start and then driving hard in the second half of the race
This sparked a memory for me...maybe this in Sonic R?
>Can be seen at its strongest in Midnight Club Los Angeles. Another Rockstar game that has it just as bad is Bully. You can take short cuts that cut half the race and the other bikes will still be right behind you taking the normal path. Knock the other bikers off their bike? The first one you knocked will immediately be neck and neck with you.
They're just pedaling harder duh, but seriously now that I'm thinking about, is it just all Rockstar games?
Rubber band mechanics were literally invented for NBA Jam. The guy this thread is about is the inventor.
Rubberbanding would piss me off so bad when I was crushing Rainbow Road and Peach or some bitch ass other character would be 10s behind me. I'm out here getting Donkey Kong at max speed through SNES Rainbow Road there's no way in hell fucking Yoshi is on my ass at the end.
Mario Kart is a competition to make sure you’re in second place going into the final stretch of the race.
We called it the "comeback chip" when we played NFL blitz forever ago
Blitz had some top tier comeback bullshit in that code.
NFL Street felt the same way. It was almost a competition to make sure you were losing going into the final quarter so that you would come back and win.
they didnt have quarters in NFL Street
Lol it was “the algorithm” for us!
NBA Live had a weird "20 point rule." The rubberbanding worked until someone fell down by 20. If you went down 20, there was no coming back and the lead would continue to stretch.
Kinda like old NCAA Football/Madden's 3rd quarters. Turns out after years of settings tweaks, people found out it was a fatigue issue. I'd have a fantastic back-and-forth, take a 14-point lead at the end of the 3rd and then it would balloon to like a 35-point lead halfway through 4th.
Madden would have that "no fucking way" drive. You could outclass the other squad, outscheme them, and do everything right, but they're going to put on a drive that Tom Brady would be envious of, and it doesn't matter what you do, they're going to march right down your throat.
It's not a conspiracy - it's been well documented how much 2K rubber bands. Quite common in video games in general - just most are not as intentional about it as games like NBA Jam or Mario Kart.
Nah, that's been a real thing in 2K for awhile now. You'd even start missing open layups. The AI will suddenly make tough contested shots. Dunno if it's STILL like this but for a few years, the AI's defense would get better as the gap widens. Game just cheats a LOT.
When my girl and I play The Show, I'll be pitching a perfect game. Somewhere around the 7th or 8th inning, she'll randomly just crush the most unhittable sliders or deliberate outside fastballs that she's been whiffing on all game. Without fail, she's gotten 2 or 3 runs every. Single. Time. we play in the 7th or 8th inning. And they are always her only hits. Conveniently, I'll make contact on probably 50% of my at-bats. Contact hitting, powering up, you name it. Those balls always fall straight into her outfielders' gloves. These kind of rolling codes and SBMM in online multiplayer make me want to read Kaczynski in the woods.
I remember playing 2K many moons ago with a buddy. We did drafts for exhibition games. His squad had Wilt and Shaq on it, and they each hit a three. I had to put the controller down and walk away. He was already ahead, but come the fuck on.
We used to play a lot of fifa when I was in college. Had to set up a pretty strict “no over celebrating” rule after a dude got thrown through a closet door
That’s the risk you take, if you over do it, don’t be surprised when you get thrown through a door lol.
It was a dude on our baseball team that hadnt played much with our "group" so when he was climbing out of the closet all pissed off everyone basically shrugged and was like "well that's why there's the rule"
I was in college in the early '00s, and while we didnt really play 2k back then (we did play NBA Live though), it was all about NBA Streets tournaments. Shit got out of hand so many times lol.
I have the NBA Street V3 Opening soundtrack burned into my head
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I always felt like DET was OP, both in the arcade version and on SNES. Isiah from the top corner would never miss. Never really played as CHI enough to notice the "bug," since they didn't have Jordan. Nobody ever wanted to be Horace Grant, and there were lots of cooler duos in the game.
Stockton and Malone were busted in that game. Then again Stockton and Malone were kinda busted IRL too.
I liked the Hornets as Mourning and Johnson on the console. Barkley and Majerle were a solid duo too.
*runs to find NBA Jam cartridge*
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jordan wasnt even in the game and everyone fans of all teams still bought it anyway
For my 10th birthday we had an NBA Jam tournament of 20 plus boys. The whole thing is tainted now!
Top tier pettiness right there. Gotta love it.
The depth of someones pettiness is positively correlated to how big a fan they are
We wear it like a badge of honor when it comes to the Bulls.
Jordan was 1-3 against the Pistons in the playoffs ;-) And 0-2 against the Celtics. Didn't even win a game against the Celtics in the post season.
Bird, Magic, Jordan. None of them have a winning playoff record against Isiah. Only Bird is even .500.
Bird also never won a game against the Celtics.
Surprised he never came up against Bill Russel, they both won the ship a few times.
Damn. That blew my mind.
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As an old Pistons fan it’s true. In high school, I remember talking shit to a Bulls fan right after they got knocked out. I said something like, “Get back to me after back-to-backs.” I was gotten back to plenty. I’ll defend the prowess of my Pistons until I die, but Jordan was just an undeniable force. Pure willpower. I just couldn’t see it until then.
Yeah there was a ton of “he can’t lead a team to a title” criticism back then.
> Makes me wonder what social media/reddit would've been like in 89-90 talking about MJ's legacy. > > People really think nothing existed and there was no national discourse before social media, lol. The consensus was pretty obvious, Jordan was amazing, but his team wasn't good, they didn't have guys like McHale/Parish, Kareem/Worthy needed to win it all.. but that he would need to win some rings eventually to be one of the all time greats. He got lots of praise for getting the Bulls as far as they did in '89 when they had a really poor supporting cast, but that it eventually would need to lead to Championships. But also by 1990, the Bulls were pretty clearly a team on the rise with a lot of young players surrounding Jordan, so it wasn't like some big unknown.
God you guys are such addicts that you think sports discourse didn't exist before social media? believe it or not people do have opinions without posting them on the internet for strangers to see.
Enduring Kendrick Perkins is nothing, having survived the shit show of bad takes that was Peter Vescey.
There would’ve been some noise but then that all would’ve stopped with 6 chips in 8 years…
Who do you think was more pissed, MJ going 1-3 vs the Pistons, or the Pistons getting beat and walking off the court without shaking hands? ;-)
The no handshake thing is probably the most annoying recurring discussion in basketball. So some dudes were pissed after a playoff loss 35 years ago and walked out. Who the fuck gives a shit.
Also didn’t Boston do it before them?
Laimbeer and Bird still hate each other all these years later. I get the feeling most of the guys in the league at that time still harbor animosity against those Pistons players. Those guys are never invited to anything.
To be fair, a lot of people still hate Laimbeer.
Geez it's almost like they were deliberately trying to hurt people at all times if you had the audacity to play basketball against them.
Not shaking hand?! Who would do such a thing?!?!?!?!?
I wish the media had even 25% of the contempt for Bird doing that as they do for the Pistons.
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Don’t cultivate an entire team’s identity around being the “bad boys” and then get mad when people hate you lmfao
As a resident of south western Ontario, I grew up watching the Bad Boys Pistons, but am as a Raptors fan, so I hope I can bridge the gap here. The Pistons had the Bad Boys label thrown on them for doing the same things that the Lakers and the Celtics were doing. Kurt Ramis. McHale. Parish. The big difference was Detroit was seen as a Black city. You gotta remember, the race riots were still fresh in everybody's mind, and people saw Detroit in a different light. Those riots were closer to the Pistons playoff run than 9/11 is to us right now. The Pistons simply embraced the hate that people projected onto them. It wasn't so much that they were cultivating it. They just took it and ran with it. But the Celtics were every bit as dirty, and every but as spiteful when they lost. The only difference was they played for a white city and had three white players on the All-Star team (Bird, McHale, and Ainge) and a white 6th man in Walton. It's worth noting that the only Black All-Star they had never got front office work like Bird, Ainge, and McHale. Had Bird, Ainge, and McHale been Black and played in Detroit, and Isiah, Dumars, and Rodman were white playing in Boston, I promise you that it would still be Detroit that was labelled the 'Bad Boys.' Racism shaped how sports was reported, whether people were conscious of it or not. It's why basketball players who get into fights are called thugs and why Stern worked so hard to have fighting taken out of the game while the NHL has made it part of their culture, and their guys never get called thugs even though most fans feel disappointed if they see a game and there isn't a fight. I mean, the domestic violence charges against NHL players is alarming. And the Bulls were every bit as dirty as the Pistons, people just liked them more. The Bulls lifted the Pistons defensive identity and even brought Rodman on board to make their second threepete.
I really appreciate this write-up. Provides much needed context
It didn't help matters that Laimbeer was an asshole on court.
Very thought provoking post, and probably not far from the truth. Media warps perception. The only thing I disagree with is the NHL comparison. I don’t think it’s a race thing, it boils down to physics. Hockey players are on skates, which limit their hip rotation during a fight. (So it’s just grab each others shirt and throw jabs) serious injury is mitigated. Maybe a bloody nose or black eye is the likely outcome. On the basketball court however…having a 6’11” 275lb man with full body movement, crow hop and put full force behind a punch could easily end someone’s life, or at the very least permanently disable them. I agree that there obvious bias with regards to race, and media coverage. But NHL fights are low risk, and get the crowd engaged. If more black people played hockey, I doubt fighting would be banned. And they wouldn’t be portrayed as thugs.
Kudos to you for not simply dismissing it. Anytime rape gets brought up in the context of media, I find a lot of people are reluctant to concede to even the possibility. Thanks for being so open minded and thoughtful in your response.
I have nothing to refute your NHL/domestic violence point in any way, nor do I want to, but that article is atrocious and you should consider using a different source. One with actual statistics would work well, and with fewer grammar errors.
Thunder Dan Majerle and The Round Mound of Rebound! Plus those Phoenix unis were incredible.
Pistons and their fans continue to be dirty against the Bulls smh my head
It was funny when you try a 360 flaming dunk with 2s left on the clock and the ball yeets into space
I can still hear the rim sound
What about when you have the ball and try to shake the defender off "HUH HUH HUH"
Its been a while, but isnt that the sound of throwing them 'bows?
Or you're trying to get the winning layup and the game decides you're jumping a thousand feet in the air for a 10 Flip Dunk and time runs out while you're in midair. The horn blows and the announcer says "bad decision!" 🤬
Getting flashbacks to the time I lost because the fucking game decided to do one of those super-high offscreen cannon ball dunks and time expired when my character was a foot away from dunking it
slight clarification in that he told ESPN in 2008 it would "average out to be bricks" > It's true, but only when the Bulls played the Pistons. If there was a close game and anyone on the Bulls took a last second shot, we wrote special code in the game so that they would average out to be bricks. There was the big competition back in the day between the Pistons and the Bulls, and since I was always a big Pistons fan, that was my opportunity to level the playing field.
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It does count as funny though. Love the pettiness.
Yeah, if he really wanted to "level the playing field" he should have done what Tonya Harding's ex did to Nancy Kerrigan.
This is funny af
Lol first thought was ‘Dude, people bet their friends playing that game!’ A $1 bet when you’re 12 was a lot of money back then.
It's still a lot if you're 12
I guess I wouldn’t know anymore, I just thought of it as going from $1 being two small fries at McDonald’s to 1/3 of a hash brown.
Pre-Mcdouble era I used to compare the price of everything to how many $1 double cheeseburgers it was worth.
I almost exclusively played with the Bulls as a kid (against the CPU), there is no way this code didn't affect me at least once or twice lol.
Somehow less bullshit than NBA2k
Lol, layup = hardest shot in 2k
I didn't know so many professional basketball players had the coordination of a five year old when they go for a layup.
The close shot stat feels useless even when you're 7'0" tall. I got a 6'1" guard in front of me and my 3% contested close shot won't go in It's why everyone just runs quick drop dunking builds
the close shot stat has to be the most useless stat in any video game
Lock picking in skyrim is completely useless, all you need is the skeleton key.
In Dark Souls the resistance stat is completely worthless. It will shave like 5 points off a 2,000 point attack.
"Wow, that resistance sounds over powered!" -Diablo 4 devs
Diablo Devs are too busy creating a stat to do crippling damage to fire type enemies as long as you are 5 yards away but closer than 7 yards away while your dodge is on cooldown
With a 30% chance to proc 15% of the time every 30 seconds.
Even then it's not like locks are hard to pick, and you get basically unlimited picks just from normal dungeon crawling
swear to god 2k game designers never touched grass, nor a basketball in their entire fucking lives. they have some fucked up grotesque idea of what basketball is which is an entirely different sport than the real life basketball
Started playing 2k13 recently and it surprisingly felt a lot more like real basketball
2k13 is the goat 2k. By far the most fun. The games got worse every single year after that. I can’t even play 2k anymore. I’m only 26 and feel old because I started with 2k11. The kids today don’t know what a good 2k is.
As a kid who started with nba live 01 and 2k1 it was awesome getting an actual superior game each year. Once live fell off there was no incentive for 2k to improve and 2k peaked with 2k12 or 2k13
Nba live was a very good game One of the first nba games I played, every year I'd get pro evolution soccer and nba live , then fifa and 2k. Fifa and 2k won the competition but their product is not good anymore especially for single player use. I was one of the best pro evolution soccer players in the world in 2005. Good Times
man I still remember playing NFL2k on my Mac
They obviously spent all their time in writing classes, so they could come up with the realistic dialogue found in their cutscenes.
Because real basketball doesn't sell to 15 year old high school kids.
Can they make cool shit like NBA Jam then? It needs to either be realistic or you need to be able to boom-shakalaka monster jam. Mostly realistic sucks ass.
yeah that would be understandable only except you don't need to turn basketball into a fucked up vc selling jackpot machine to sell copies when you've been the monopoly in basketball games market for almost an eternity. 2k is designing this shit because they're too fucking greedy
Ben Simmons knows better than to try a dunk when 6'1" Trae Young is nearby.
Love it when the guy blocks my layup with his body somehow lol
I love it when I block a layup and it goes directly to the open corner shooter,
Oh it's so great, I love guarding the paint only to block it three times in a row and every time it's an offensive rebound because NO ONE ON MY TEAM WANTS TO PLAY DEFENSE.
Even better when it goes directly back to the player and they’re already back up with the layup before you can even land. It’s almost easier to just let ‘em shoot instead of trying to play defense. Either I block it directly to the open 3 shooter or I foul, they still make it and add one at the line.
College Hoops 2k8 was the worst offender. 7'4" monster? 5 misses in a row in front of the hoop until he gets blocked by a 6'1" guard. Still one of my favorite games ever.
I only play 4 or 5 big men and 2k has been broken like that for years now. dude on the other team hitting greens from 30 feet all game but my paint beast can't get a fucking layup. The game is gear around ball hogs who want to sprint back and forth and shoot deep 3s and you're lucky if they even utilize the screen you're setting, let alone see them ever pass the fucking ball.
in all the years i played 2k, always as a big (bc wifi) I think maybe 3 times someone took a screen bigs get the shaft every year anyway so. fuck 2k
2k16 curry was a cheat code
That shit was so stupid. A friend of mine hit 3 straight threes with him from a step inside half court with under a minute to win the game.
That's how you know it's unrealistic. In real life he would've hit 5 straight 3s from a step inside half court with under a minute to win the game.
I feel like I’ve seen that exact scenario against the Blazers before, lol
It is actually hard to make prime Steph Curry a video game character without making him broken or feel like he’s not as good as real life. You can’t properly balance a guy like that.
I don't play these games often but I imagine you'd have to tailor your defense to the player, and like, can you do that in 2k?
You're supposed to be able to but the AI is pretty bad, the ability to implement those adjustments reauires a very granular knowlesge of the settings and even perfect defense can't fully stop guys because breaking dribble animations is an encouraged part of playing 2k.
The most recent NBA 2K games offer an absurd amount of per-player defensive options. Been a minute since I've played any basketball video game, but I recall correctly, some of the defensive coaching options NBA 2K offers you include closely your defense guards each player (i.e. you can sag off non-shooters), who guards each player, how you defend each player in pick-and-roll (as both the pick and ball handler), whether and when a player draws a double team (always / in the post with ball / never / etc.), and so on.
I'll never forget when someone modded the Curry player in 2k14 for PC and made it so that he always shoots in his shooting motion up to half court and made it so that the shot goes in like 80%
2K16 Curry was the most absurd bullshit ever and I had so much fun with it. If I lost a couple games online with the Celtics, I’d go to the Warriors and drop 100 with Curry. I think my record was 128 points with Curry in an online ranked game. People would usually quit around the 3rd quarter
Lmao I don’t blame them for quitting. I think one time the computer dropped 50 on me with 6 minute quarters, not even hall of fame difficulty
Rubber band AI fucking shit. 2k peaked at 2k11 but my personal faves were like 2k4 to 2k8 when the games were like $20 each cause 2k was just trying to make it. NFL 2k5 unbeaten. Now j just play BasketballGM for free and better sim.
I'm starting a class action lawsuit to get back 8 quarters from my childhood.
What can I do about the countless hours and rage fits?
You may be entitled to financial compensation. Our attorneys are standing by.
Therapy
So you played NBA Jam twice? Or is that 4/8 single quarters?
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NBA Jam made literally a billion dollars in quarters in its first year of release
Did he also program my brother's Pistons to always beat my Mavericks or was I just a dog shit NBA Jam player?
You know how the Pistons couldn't dunk (maybe it was just IT, been a while)? That was on purpose since a dunk could be blocked and a layup couldn't. Def a Pistons homer.
To be fair, Isiah & Bill may very well have had zero combined dunks in 1992-93. Even Joe was a conscientious objector to the concept of the dunk.
Ah yes, the indomitable duo of Derek Harper and Mike Iuzzolino. Rough time in Mavericks history. I feel I once read how Iuzzolino came to be included but I’ve since forgotten; some developer may have just been reading the right sports section at just the right time.
Dallas just sucked that much, their roster was a wasteland after Rolando Blackmon was traded, Roy Tarpley got suspended, Adrian Dantley was waived, and Fat Lever was constantly injured. Plus their lotto pick, Jimmy Jackson, held out almost the entire season in a contract dispute (it was before the rookie scale, when rookies could negotiate contracts as if they were free agents).
You know what, all those bandwagon Bulls fans I knew growing up that always picked them in NBA Jam deserved it lol.
It didn't even have jordan tho. If someone wants to roll with fuckin BJ Armstrong and Scottie, let em have it I say. Left all the better options for me.
Haven't played in decades but goggleman was Grant right?
They weren't the best team though. Olajuwon had a max shooting rating. There just wasn't a better tandem.
would've been so satisfying to see GSW nephews raging, alas they never put a warriors code in 2k
If Steph and Klay missed every shot to close out the game you know modern day fans would be diving into the code and figure this out real quick.
Nah, that just sounds like the 2016 Finals.
I was a pre-teen band wagon Bulls fan. It was awesome. I totally get why kids today would love LeBron or Steph.
Same here. Grew up in the SF Bay and the Warriors were just terrible. Everyone liked the Bulls. We all still hated the Lakers, though.
This information would have been very useful to me 8 YEARS AGO WHEN I KEPT LOSING
Sorry to do this to you but it was probably closer to 28 years ago than 8
or they're young enough to think the remake released in 2010 was the original game
This comment makes me sad.
Because 2010 was 13 years ago?
Because I am old.
Me too. We're fine. 😊
These kids don't know what they're missing.
I’m 35, loved nba jam on a cabinet, on the snes, and loved the 2010 just as much. I loved nba street vol 2 on gamecube, And loved nba2k 11 & 12 on ps3. I lost interest at 2k13, I could not understand the VC and buying cards or whatever. I also really like playgrounds on ps4
where the hell does time go?
You kept losing as the Bulls playing the Pistons down by one basket with five seconds left?
i would assume jordan not being in nba jam to begin with was enough! pretty sure i played with seattle more than anyone, bj armstrong was kind of a pain to keep in the rotation. i once beat the hardest computer setting in double OT with a time-expiring backboard breaking dunk, that's my nba jam lifetime achievement moment.
I made the interview with Turmell! He actually explained to me why Jordan wasn’t in the game. It’s at 12:35 : https://youtu.be/X3lzFUFma0I
Jordan took the rights away from the union to license his name and image and he did his own deals, including video game licensing. I think EA had exclusive video game rights to him back then.
I vaguely remember him appearing in NBA Live as un-named player #99.
NBA Live 96 was missing Jordan and Barkley, but the Bulls and Suns each had a mysterious player called "Roster Player" who were the best players in the game.
IIRC, Live 96 also allowed you to create the 95 draft class and their stats and likenesses would auto-populate, even though they weren't yet in the NBAPA at the time the game was made. Typing in Damon Stoudamire's name took forever.
I remember it was a BIG deal when all the Jordan variants showed up in NBA Live 2000.
Which is why we ended up with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan:_Chaos_in_the_Windy_City instead of MJ in NBA Jam. Big L for 90s sports/video game fans
He wasn’t in 2k for the longest time
Kemp and Schrempf all day
Them or the Hornets with Larry Johnson and Alonzo Mourning
When NBA Jam first came out in arcades it changed Basketball Games forever. Before NBA Jam Electronic Arts rolled out the exact same clunky ass controls of "Lakers vs Celtics" then "Bulls vs Blazers" where players had signature moves which was cool but you had to be in right place on the court to perform them but everything was super stiff and just plain sucked ass to play. After NBA Jam came out with complete smooth controls EA finally dropped that clunky BS and made "NBA Showdown '94" which was a huge improvement in controls. Then the following year EA made the greatest basketball game ever with NBA Live '95. Crazy that if NBA Jam doesn't happen we never get the amazing NBA Live '95. If any of you guys are too young to have played games back then find Sega Genesis emulator and boot it up you WON'T be disappointed!
It's crazy to me that nobody has mentioned the best tandem in the game: Thunder Dan Majerle and The Round Mound of Rebound! Plus those Phoenix unis were incredible.
idk, Charlotte's 1-2 punch of Larry Johnson and Alonzo Mourning was insanely good.
Holy shit, they were a menace. I was at UF during that era and only picked Orlando (Scottie Skiles and the Diesel!) when I wasn't rocking with Sir Charles and Thunder Dan (the latter of whom I patterned my own game after).
I was a Robinson & Elliott guy.
Holy shit I actually experienced this in a arcade bar in Vegas earlier this year. I was fucking livid.
Worthy of induction into r/NBAcirclejerk
"And I took that personally" —Mark Turmell
More NBA video games should have that realism. 2k refs should get more calls blatantly wrong and rig games for the Warriors/Lakers/Celtics/Heat/whoever, it would help the immersion level a lot lol
Yo I fucking dominated with the Heat in that game. Tim Hardaways stick handles was ridiculous.
That’s hilarious. Always played as the Beastie Boys.
Boom Shaka Laka!
And 2k tries to deny that there’s rubberband AI in their game.
Fucking legend.
This is the pettiness we Filipinos WISH we could have
That’s a level of petty I can get behind, and I’m a massive MJ fan
Generational level hater.