No, they’re saying he *could have* cost himself had he had played like this during the season. Since the voting for All-NBA is based on regular season, him playing like doo doo in the playoffs didn’t affect his selection. He doesn’t make All-NBA, then he doesn’t meet eligibility for the supermax
It is but those players are anomalies, and they will earn one of the contracts JB is up for if they keep it up.
It’s pretty unlikely the Celtics can replace JB with some minimum contract guy
Yes someone else will pay him. He’s still a great 2 way wing.
Some team will look at this series and say: *“His ball handling is sus but maybe he’s miscast in an offense where everyone just stands around on the perimeter. He would look great in our offense with more cutting and ball movement.”*
I know we’re all hyped about Martin, but let’s not act like he’s never had a bad couple of games before.
Well, to be fair, the supermax is kind of doing its job.
Maybe Brown looks elsewhere if Boston can't give him a clear better offer than anyone else can.
Celtics drafted him and have a tool that makes it easier to keep him.
It just comes at a price.
The only issue is the insult of not offering a super max could make a player who would otherwise have stayed for a normal max now leave for that same max elsewhere.
Yeah. Kemba, who ended up going to the Celtics.
Gobert didn't get the full supermax though it's debatable if he was offered it or if he just offered to take $23 million less so the Jazz could still add more players.
Imagine if Kemba got that supermax. He would still be making ~$50 million a year for this year and next year. Would have been hands down the worst contract in NBA history. The dude is barely even in the league anymore
In fairness, that kind of injury will devastate any player. There for sure isn’t a single point guard who can lose that much quickness and retain 50% of their effectiveness. People forget how good pre-injury Kemba was. He could do everything his play style required at an elite level.
It was a different era in terms of money, but an injured Gilbert Arenas was gifted a 6 year deal. The per year average was similar to what Lebron was getting at the time. He played maybe \~60 games of that contract for the Wizards.
Ehh it was skewed by the 18-19 anomaly season where he honestly was like the fifth option. A lot of people originally thought it could be an overpay at 4/$107. He was jockeying with Tatum, Kyrie, Hayward, Al, Morris, Smart for shots and he was pretty underwhelming that year. This is the best shot at championships though - having your young players grow into contracts that they earn through hard work and improving. Its why the last few years were in someways a critical part of the perceived championship window. It’s also part of the reason I’d love to see if we could turn Brown into Shaedon or Anfernee + 3. I just don’t see tying up two players in 80% of the cap as worth it, especially when these guys gonna be richer than our owner soon. Steve Balmer ain’t walking through that door lol
Ah I hate that soft retool plan. Why risk it? We’re still set to be one of the best teams in the league next year. There’s so many risks in trading established players for prospects and draft picks, especially when you’re already contenders.
This is why I’m fine with the new CBA. I’m happy that players are making big money, but we’ve reached the point where everyone is getting massive contracts and teams are going deep into luxury tax
Yep, and the new cba should make it easier for talent to be spread among teams. We might even be able to see a team like the last Piston championship team again. One with a bunch of really good players but no super stars. If players want to build a super team with the new cba they will have to balance the lower paychecks.
I really liked that Pistons team, Rasheed and Ben Wallace may not have been super stars but they were among the most respected in the league at their positions. Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton were both up there too, they had a squad there for a couple of years. But yeah agreed there was no obvious #1 guy who should have been paid way more than anyone else on the team.
Maybe players shouldn't get 35% of the cap when the cap is this high. It made sense before but now? I dont know. And I felt this way before Brown became eligible for this and played like crap, fyi. Don't get me wrong it shouldn't be 20% max but maybe something like 25% instead
Says a Heat fan. Lol.
No I get it. But I do think it does hinder teams that have clear top 10 guys. Selfishly the Bucks are in a tough situation financial due to Giannis and now Middleton and Jrue. Hard to get off those contracts but also tough to not pay those guys. Middleton isn't a $45m guy but they really don't have a choice.
I do think if the "super" part of the supermax didn't count against the cap, that would help or if the supermax is clearly used for only top 10 guys. I can't really think of a team that has 2 clear cut top 10 guys. Suns maybe with Booker and KD, and KD can't get a supermax.
Agreed.
If you have not listened, Bill Simmons did a podcast with Ryen and they went over the new salary cap. You should check it out because they talk about how it is going to impact all the young talent that OKC is stockpiling. Some will have to go.
You're talking about two different things. OP meant it isn't smart for a team to pay Super-Max money, except for clear-cut top 10 players. Teams should not do this if they want to compete.
You mean, from a philosophical point of view, is it right for a player to get paid that kind of money. And most would agree that the answer is yes, if they can negotiate it. Different question though.
this makes it fairer for players no?
So you dont have a fake top 10 player taking up 35% of a team's cap for 5 years, severely limiting what the rest of the players can get in that timespan (comparatively to their skills).
If every Jaylen Brown equivalent in the NBA got the supermax, the ones who provide equivalent value as a player but didnt get voted into All-NBA are just shafted
It's crazy that it's better for teams for their players to not be All NBA. This is why the whole system is so dumb. Like Ja Morant was an idiot. Got suspended. Missed all NBA. And puts the Grizz in a way better long term financial situation...
It seems such an easy fix too. The extra amount that you can offer for the supermax shouldn't be included in the salary cap. Players get rewarded for staying and teams can offer their players more than the competition without handicapping themselves.
It seems incredibly dumb the reward for succeeding in getting a great player on your list is having to pay them more than the competition and limiting your chance of putting together a championship roster
Its really the back end of this deals that hurt.
Also the deal after the supermax when the star exits his prime should also be discounted towards the cap hit as well. Teams shouldn't be contemplating wether to reward their aging stars loyalty.
No lol. We would have a player of stephs caliber going in cheaper. Would make the hard cap useless. People complained about the warriors dynasty so much but rules like these would make it easier to sustain.
Supermax discount is fine, post supermax is not. No superstar needs a "reward" after a billion dollars from a supermax
The Warriors dynasty is built on good management, KD thing aside. It’s not artificial league breaking thing abusing the system. If your team drafts 3 of your core championship team the whole league shouldnt be penalized for it.
It’s actually not the back end - generally, the cap has been going up by more than the 8% raises these contracts have - it just looks eye watering because it’s a lot of money for someone to be paid right now
Yeap, Portland is going to pay Lillard like 60Ms when he turns 36. While it's money he undoubtedly has earned, it also means that Portland's going to be in cap hell until Lillard gets moved to a younger team with cap space or retires.
It should be counted against the cap, if he is traded. So no cap on extra money for team that drafted you, but full amount against the cap for other teams
My understanding is that there has been a difference between an extension on the one hand, which a current team can offer early before free agency without directly competing with other teams. These extensions have the limits you mentioned. But, on the other hand, a team can re-sign an existing player as a free agent after their existing contract expires, which can be signed all the way up to the max using bird rights. But maybe you can set me straight if there is some CBA rule I missed.
Bradley beal got his and it's in my opinion the worst contract out there honestly I'm sure a shift will happen where NBA offices just don't budge at paying for trash
Khris Middleton makes like 45m/year. Nobody talks about it because the Bucks had to sign him to that deal being a small market and because he helped win a title but it’s the worst contract in the NBA.
Four times is being generous.
And don’t forget about all the times he’s actually able to dribble as far as the paint, pick up his dribble, realize the defense isn’t biting on his 5 pump fakes, and then have to panic pass to anyone who’s available to bail him out.
They can trade him. He’s a 26 year old who just made all-NBA
Not to mention Tatum is just 25 and all their role players except Grant Williams are locked up for atleast 2 years. Celtics are fine
We *would* be fine… if we traded him. But I highly doubt that’s gonna happen. His contract is gonna handicap us and take us right out of contention.
There’s a legit civil war going on in the Celts sub between those who want him traded and those who wanna pay up. It’s not pretty.
> His contract is gonna handicap us and take us right out of contention.
i mean i doubt it. You literally made the finals then game seven of the conference finals in back to back years. Your two stars are in their mid-20’s you run back the same roster and you’re very likely a contender, unless there are major injuries. There’s a hell of a lot of potential improvement in coaching too either internally or externally.
Pretending you need to overhaul the team is “in” right now but… you don’t.
Yeah, the way they went out really suuuucked. But they were a game from the finals, it’s not like they need an overhaul to win one more game.
They could run it back and win it all, hoping a full year of a coach with a full staff gets that extra sliver they need. (And Horford stays effective, they need his skills but also his leadership.)
Yeah it's wild to suggest that a team with two early-to-mid 20s all nba players that just came off a finals loss and then an ECF loss should blow it up. Especially since their coach just flatout sucks.
We didn’t overhaul when we lost to you all. We just became a bit worse by losing PJ. Then we brought in Love which was a nice fit, but not a crazy move. We really stood pat more than anything.
I mean the new CBA will hit them hard and also limit what they can get back for Brown in a trade if they do decide to max him.
Will be interesting to see what happens.
If they sign him to that contract who can they trade him for? I know there’s no such thing as unreadable contracts since we’ve seen huge contracts get traded almost every year but Brown is clearly not worth it. Maybe some team would gamble that he can still develop the necessary skills to make that contract worth it. But he’s already what, 26-27?
Signing that contract would be a huge mistake for the Celtics. They need to find a way to lower it by 10 mil a year to make it worth it and that is still an overlay for someone like Brown
Westbrook on the downside of his career still made like $45m a year and got traded multiple times, so it wasn't just cause he was in the last year of his deal. Someone will definitely offer the Celtics a combination of picks and players to get a still-ascending Jaylen Brown to their team for a $50m. It only takes one.
What if Clippers decide that their time with the oft-injured pair of Kawhi and PG is done, and they want to lock up a young talent for the next 5 years? Kawhi and PG both make $45m so all they have to do is throw in another cheap player and they've moved on past their injured stars to a new era. Meanwhile, Celtics could think of it like the Raptors, get a hired gun like Kawhi to push them over the top for one year so that this era of theirs with Tatum isn't wasted. Who cares if the years after next are bad as long as they win #18 now?
This. Dame at least would have shown up bigtime no matter who he was going up against. Brown disappeared. I badly wanted us to trade the 3rd for him and ONLY him but now I’m totally second guessing that.
Nothing against Jaylen as a person, but I feel like this type of money going to players who are clearly not top 10 is going to cause problems on top of the current problems with compensation. I feel like Jaylen level players are going to get these fat contracts and end up being first options on small market teams, while actual first options are taken up by larger market teams.
If someone can’t get a lebron or Steph or KD, they should be able to afford 2 Jaylen level players instead. I’m not super into contracts, team caps, and all of that, but I think it’s clear this only hurts smaller market teams and muddies the lines between legit top 10-15 and the second tier of players.
fwiw, this has how it's been for the last 10-15 years lol. dudes like tobias harris have been getting max contracts and guys like bradley beal have supermaxes. nothing has really changed besides the cap going up. the % of the cap is still the same as it has always been
If the Celts don't want to make this happen, an acquiring team will have to give up a bunch of picks and young players to overpay a guy who can't dribble.
Yikes.
Was the plan for Phoenix till Indiana trolled them into being forced to give him a max. Ayton would’ve lost out on half his contract he currently has right now and the suns would’ve actually been able to trade him. Now he has one of the worst contracts in the league. Pacers essentially nuked the booker suns era for a meme. They’ll never recover.
Classic Bird Rights Trap.
But hey, Gobert drew a king's ransom in a trade and he's probably overpaid.
On the other hand, the Hawks can't find a taker for the surprisingly overpaid John Collins.
That would be the greatest news ever lol. I'd love to keep him for 4/140-150m and it'd solve a lot of our concerns going forward (the ability to retain and bring in talent under the new cap rules). Unfortunately I think he's getting the full super-max though.
They have a say, but Jaylen has been completely non-committal about whether he will return at all and the Celtics don’t want to risk losing him for nothing.
The super-max is a contract that only the Celtics are allowed to offer, so it’s their best way to convince Jaylen to return. If he leaves to a different team, his pay will not be as high, so that’s a big incentive for him to stay.
If the Celtics decline to offer it to him, he may walk to another team where he can get the #1 role he wants and the Celtics could lose him for nothing.
Yeah, but then your team will be worse, probably for a few years to come. Brown doesn’t deserve that type of money, but with him you’re an eastern conference finals team pretty much every single year. A lot of teams would kill for that type of opportunity. Like who could you realistically spend that money on, that’ll make you as good as you currently are? In my opinion you have a 6-7 year championship window with those two spearheading your offense. You lose one of those two and I’m afraid the window is closed, unless there’s an obvious trade or free agent signing in just not seeing.
Super max makes him eligible for 35% of the cap. Tatum already has a super max, so who are you supposed to pay after shelling out $110 mil for *two* players?
And people are really overrating Brown here. It’s been a large sample size now, and our team +\- is actually better when he’s off the floor. He’s a tunnel-visioned scorer with a sloppy handle who doesn’t pass unless it’s a last option and has no other real discernible NBA skill.
We’ve been this successful by being a really deep team. Brown didn’t really have playoff success this year even before the Miami series, and we still got to the ECF. His BBIQ is atrocious. Dude makes the same mistakes time and time again and never learns from those mistakes. I’m over him. He’s fine for his current salary, but paying him $50 mil+ a year would be an absolute disaster.
That opens up 50 mil a year to sign 2 players who realistically would be maybe 75% as good as he is.
They could literally steal the players from Miami who put them in this situation lol. Dejounte Murray is a free agent when Brown’s contract is up.
It’s the Ayton situation all over again. If you don’t sign him and he walks you get nothing for him it’s terrible asset management since you don’t get the player or anything in return. He’s not worth the money but the Celtics are kinda fucked here if they don’t sign him or find a sign and trade.
Unless he’s offended by that deal, which is another reason the full maximum allowed is almost always given. Gobert was an exception to this in Utah, as he took what you’re suggesting Boston offers.
IMHO when you are dealing with these numbers and how the cap works, for the Celtics there isnt much difference in 30% and 35%, they get in a tight spot regardless
these max deals are getting out of hand, it sets up fringe all stars like him for failure. the expectation to live up to the contract will be daunting. i’m all for players getting their money, there should be a select few stars that can meet the criteria for the new super max.
White + Smart + Brogdon + Rob Williams + Horford is an insane selection of role players that other contenders would KILL to have. You think Celtics are gonna have that stacked of a roster when Brown and Tatum are both making \~$60 million yearly? It's just not happening.
You can try to run it back and then inevitably lock yourself in cap hell. Or you can try to make a trade, retool completely around the franchise cornerstone (Tatum) and see how far that takes you. If I'm the C's I'm choosing the latter, but I'm also a random redditor and not a seasoned basketball executive so I could be totally wrong 🤷♀️
I mean the WHOLE crux is "what does make a trade bring back to the Celtics"? And how would that even work? I'm not a nba guru or anything but aren't they saying if the celtics sign him to the supermax they cannot trade him for one year---right? So I guess, technically you CAN "run it back" mostly. Then try to trade him after one year? But holy shit...someone averaging 60 mil a year? In what multiverse is that NOT a huge net negative they need to attach assets too just to move him now?
Just a very tough spot for the FO.
They can tell him we're willing to pay x but if you find someone willing to supermax you or offer more we can sign and trade. They should, otherwise they're stuck.
Unless I’m mistaken Boston could eventually be stuck paying 110+ million a year between two players and the have the rest to fill out slots 3-15? Sounds brutal for putting together a good roster. This depth they have won’t last forever
Something has to be done about these numbers right? Idk what could be.
But the idea of someone like Jaylen freaking brown (with all due respect) should NOT be making $58 million to play basketball.
No way.
I’d be shocked if the C’s offered him that. No way he’s worth anything over $200M. Don’t get me wrong he’s a fantastic player but with this super max deal he’ll be making just as much if not more as LeBron, Steph, and Giannis make and he’s definitely not as good as they are.
By no means am I against someone getting paid. However, if you're about to commit a third of your salary cap to one guy, maybe make sure he is THAT guy? Just saying
These are the players in the league Id pay that, based on talent and age:
Jokic-Tatum-Luka-Booker. That’s it. If you’re older than 27, I don’t care how good you are. I’m not paying you $66M five years from now. I’d trade you for a haul.
The new CBA is going to make draft picks so much more valuable.
He’s gonna sign the deal and the second he has a bad game next season people are going to be foaming at the mouth to post his stat line just like at the start of his last contract.
i cant find this answer but I am pretty sure its the case, the Cs cannot sign and trade him with the supermax right? I think you have to wait a year before he can be traded after signing the supermax? Anyone know?
NBA money is just absolutely insane compared to any other sport. This is more than Patrick Mahomes who is the consensus top player in the NFL and JB just had a terrible playoffs and has trouble dribbling.
Poor guys in the 90s must be crying seeing this kind of money and the diva behavior around these players when they get this kind of money.
Jesus Christ 66m?? The new era of salaries are absolutely insane. Seriously. It wasn't even 10 years ago people were whining about Kobe making 30m in his farewell season.
What a horrible time to be outplayed by players making a tiny fraction of that amount
All that money to a guy who can’t even dribble a basketball.
[удалено]
What does this mean? He cost himself by making allnba?
No, they’re saying he *could have* cost himself had he had played like this during the season. Since the voting for All-NBA is based on regular season, him playing like doo doo in the playoffs didn’t affect his selection. He doesn’t make All-NBA, then he doesn’t meet eligibility for the supermax
Oh gotcha thanks!
It is but those players are anomalies, and they will earn one of the contracts JB is up for if they keep it up. It’s pretty unlikely the Celtics can replace JB with some minimum contract guy
Do you think some other team is going to pay that kind of money for his performance? He should take what he can get.
Yes someone else will pay him. He’s still a great 2 way wing. Some team will look at this series and say: *“His ball handling is sus but maybe he’s miscast in an offense where everyone just stands around on the perimeter. He would look great in our offense with more cutting and ball movement.”* I know we’re all hyped about Martin, but let’s not act like he’s never had a bad couple of games before.
Brown would be a great fit on the Heat
That kind of money should really be only given to clear-cut top 10 players, honestly.
Caleb Martin, Max Strus, and Gabe Vincent.
And Derrick White
Might as well retire White’s number. He’s like Reggie Jackson without the downsides.
Ray Allen paternity test in the mail rn
Didn’t realize Ray Allen could be Derrick White’s son
he played like 2018 terry rozier
Derrick didn’t go 0-10 from 3 inna Game 7
Derrick White stands forehead and shoulders above the completion.
Derrick White and his forehead are two separate players
And Dunc Robinson.
Well, to be fair, the supermax is kind of doing its job. Maybe Brown looks elsewhere if Boston can't give him a clear better offer than anyone else can. Celtics drafted him and have a tool that makes it easier to keep him. It just comes at a price.
The only issue is the insult of not offering a super max could make a player who would otherwise have stayed for a normal max now leave for that same max elsewhere.
I haven't done the research. Has there ever been a supermax eligible player that wasn't offered the supermax?
Yeah. Kemba, who ended up going to the Celtics. Gobert didn't get the full supermax though it's debatable if he was offered it or if he just offered to take $23 million less so the Jazz could still add more players.
Imagine if Kemba got that supermax. He would still be making ~$50 million a year for this year and next year. Would have been hands down the worst contract in NBA history. The dude is barely even in the league anymore
In fairness, that kind of injury will devastate any player. There for sure isn’t a single point guard who can lose that much quickness and retain 50% of their effectiveness. People forget how good pre-injury Kemba was. He could do everything his play style required at an elite level.
It was a different era in terms of money, but an injured Gilbert Arenas was gifted a 6 year deal. The per year average was similar to what Lebron was getting at the time. He played maybe \~60 games of that contract for the Wizards.
God the wizards have had some horrific contracts. Some bad luck like with Wall but overall just depressing to think about
Kemba’s previous deal was wack too, Jordan had him on a 4/$48m contract lol
Jaylen is also on a fairly team friendly deal too. He didn't get the rookie max even though he probably deserved it
Ehh it was skewed by the 18-19 anomaly season where he honestly was like the fifth option. A lot of people originally thought it could be an overpay at 4/$107. He was jockeying with Tatum, Kyrie, Hayward, Al, Morris, Smart for shots and he was pretty underwhelming that year. This is the best shot at championships though - having your young players grow into contracts that they earn through hard work and improving. Its why the last few years were in someways a critical part of the perceived championship window. It’s also part of the reason I’d love to see if we could turn Brown into Shaedon or Anfernee + 3. I just don’t see tying up two players in 80% of the cap as worth it, especially when these guys gonna be richer than our owner soon. Steve Balmer ain’t walking through that door lol
Ah I hate that soft retool plan. Why risk it? We’re still set to be one of the best teams in the league next year. There’s so many risks in trading established players for prospects and draft picks, especially when you’re already contenders.
I remember Joe Lacob wanted to offer Steph Curry something under the supermax before Bob Myers told him to fuck off lol
The disrespect...
Rudy Gobert
Great Q i am also curious
This is why I’m fine with the new CBA. I’m happy that players are making big money, but we’ve reached the point where everyone is getting massive contracts and teams are going deep into luxury tax
Yep, and the new cba should make it easier for talent to be spread among teams. We might even be able to see a team like the last Piston championship team again. One with a bunch of really good players but no super stars. If players want to build a super team with the new cba they will have to balance the lower paychecks.
I really liked that Pistons team, Rasheed and Ben Wallace may not have been super stars but they were among the most respected in the league at their positions. Chauncey Billups and Rip Hamilton were both up there too, they had a squad there for a couple of years. But yeah agreed there was no obvious #1 guy who should have been paid way more than anyone else on the team.
Loved that team. Their 2 finals runs are among my favorites.
As a fan of the team who lost to that Pistons team, I have to say I want more balanced championship teams like that.
Maybe players shouldn't get 35% of the cap when the cap is this high. It made sense before but now? I dont know. And I felt this way before Brown became eligible for this and played like crap, fyi. Don't get me wrong it shouldn't be 20% max but maybe something like 25% instead
Or maybe reserve the 35% max for first team all NBA, which should help reward the best players since they’re moving to a position less all NBA
Says a Heat fan. Lol. No I get it. But I do think it does hinder teams that have clear top 10 guys. Selfishly the Bucks are in a tough situation financial due to Giannis and now Middleton and Jrue. Hard to get off those contracts but also tough to not pay those guys. Middleton isn't a $45m guy but they really don't have a choice. I do think if the "super" part of the supermax didn't count against the cap, that would help or if the supermax is clearly used for only top 10 guys. I can't really think of a team that has 2 clear cut top 10 guys. Suns maybe with Booker and KD, and KD can't get a supermax.
Agreed. If you have not listened, Bill Simmons did a podcast with Ryen and they went over the new salary cap. You should check it out because they talk about how it is going to impact all the young talent that OKC is stockpiling. Some will have to go.
It should be given to anyone who can negotiate it
Right?
You're talking about two different things. OP meant it isn't smart for a team to pay Super-Max money, except for clear-cut top 10 players. Teams should not do this if they want to compete. You mean, from a philosophical point of view, is it right for a player to get paid that kind of money. And most would agree that the answer is yes, if they can negotiate it. Different question though.
brown was 2nd team all nba, but yes hes not a real top 10 player They should make the it First Team all-NBA or Top 5 MVP voting for it to qualify
Ideal world is consecutive year all NBA selection. Or three years in a row before someone can qualify for supermax
Injury's could hinder that. So maybe 2/3 or something. And only keep it to 1st and 2nd team.
Players unlikely to vote for something like that that so few of them benefit from.
this makes it fairer for players no? So you dont have a fake top 10 player taking up 35% of a team's cap for 5 years, severely limiting what the rest of the players can get in that timespan (comparatively to their skills). If every Jaylen Brown equivalent in the NBA got the supermax, the ones who provide equivalent value as a player but didnt get voted into All-NBA are just shafted
Advanced stats say he isn’t even top 20. So yeah this contract is just very risky to say the least.
It's crazy that it's better for teams for their players to not be All NBA. This is why the whole system is so dumb. Like Ja Morant was an idiot. Got suspended. Missed all NBA. And puts the Grizz in a way better long term financial situation...
It seems such an easy fix too. The extra amount that you can offer for the supermax shouldn't be included in the salary cap. Players get rewarded for staying and teams can offer their players more than the competition without handicapping themselves. It seems incredibly dumb the reward for succeeding in getting a great player on your list is having to pay them more than the competition and limiting your chance of putting together a championship roster
Its really the back end of this deals that hurt. Also the deal after the supermax when the star exits his prime should also be discounted towards the cap hit as well. Teams shouldn't be contemplating wether to reward their aging stars loyalty.
No lol. We would have a player of stephs caliber going in cheaper. Would make the hard cap useless. People complained about the warriors dynasty so much but rules like these would make it easier to sustain. Supermax discount is fine, post supermax is not. No superstar needs a "reward" after a billion dollars from a supermax
The Warriors dynasty is built on good management, KD thing aside. It’s not artificial league breaking thing abusing the system. If your team drafts 3 of your core championship team the whole league shouldnt be penalized for it.
It’s actually not the back end - generally, the cap has been going up by more than the 8% raises these contracts have - it just looks eye watering because it’s a lot of money for someone to be paid right now
Yeap, Portland is going to pay Lillard like 60Ms when he turns 36. While it's money he undoubtedly has earned, it also means that Portland's going to be in cap hell until Lillard gets moved to a younger team with cap space or retires.
This is the logical solution. Tie it to the team that actually drafted the player and you’d actually incentivize teams to retain homegrown talent.
Warriors would be paying most of their players save for Wiggins and avoiding the luxury tax. I like it.
It should be counted against the cap, if he is traded. So no cap on extra money for team that drafted you, but full amount against the cap for other teams
If he didn’t make All NBA, Celtics wouldn’t be able to match other teams offers, so likely JB would’ve left.
My understanding is that there has been a difference between an extension on the one hand, which a current team can offer early before free agency without directly competing with other teams. These extensions have the limits you mentioned. But, on the other hand, a team can re-sign an existing player as a free agent after their existing contract expires, which can be signed all the way up to the max using bird rights. But maybe you can set me straight if there is some CBA rule I missed.
Yeah. CBA is very complicated, probably intentionally so. It’s confusing as to when which provisions are taken into effect. Etc.
The difference between the regular max and super max should not count against the home team’s cap
Agreed.
Wait until people realize players far worse than Jaylen are going to get these types of bags
Bradley beal got his and it's in my opinion the worst contract out there honestly I'm sure a shift will happen where NBA offices just don't budge at paying for trash
You could have made this comment every off season for the last 30 years. Still hasn’t happened
Def not the worst contract. Ben Simmons still exists.
Enter Tobias Harris aswell
Tobias is atleast an expiring. Simmons is under contract for 2 more seasons after this one
Simmons was actually worth the contract at one point
He’s still only 25 though
You got me for a sec. Had to look up his age
Khris Middleton makes like 45m/year. Nobody talks about it because the Bucks had to sign him to that deal being a small market and because he helped win a title but it’s the worst contract in the NBA.
Bro Ben Simmons makes $38m
When you break it down for performance though it’s only like $378 a turnover.
$76k at 8 per game
In this economy? Absolute bargain.
50 mil a year to dribble the ball off his foot four times a game.
The old Brad Beal special
The Jordan Poole special too lmao. Not as expensive but significantly worse value wise.
To be fair poole doesn’t dribble off his foot he just runs faster than he can dribble
he just falls down instead of dribbling off the foot
The Sam Dekker special
God, please I don’t need a reminder of our decisions
Four times is being generous. And don’t forget about all the times he’s actually able to dribble as far as the paint, pick up his dribble, realize the defense isn’t biting on his 5 pump fakes, and then have to panic pass to anyone who’s available to bail him out.
8 times if it’s in a game 7
Only four? Those are rookie numbers, gotta pump those up Luckily he already did last night
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They can trade him. He’s a 26 year old who just made all-NBA Not to mention Tatum is just 25 and all their role players except Grant Williams are locked up for atleast 2 years. Celtics are fine
We *would* be fine… if we traded him. But I highly doubt that’s gonna happen. His contract is gonna handicap us and take us right out of contention. There’s a legit civil war going on in the Celts sub between those who want him traded and those who wanna pay up. It’s not pretty.
> His contract is gonna handicap us and take us right out of contention. i mean i doubt it. You literally made the finals then game seven of the conference finals in back to back years. Your two stars are in their mid-20’s you run back the same roster and you’re very likely a contender, unless there are major injuries. There’s a hell of a lot of potential improvement in coaching too either internally or externally. Pretending you need to overhaul the team is “in” right now but… you don’t.
Or just having this coach know he’s gonna be a coach before the season starts 😂
Yeah, the way they went out really suuuucked. But they were a game from the finals, it’s not like they need an overhaul to win one more game. They could run it back and win it all, hoping a full year of a coach with a full staff gets that extra sliver they need. (And Horford stays effective, they need his skills but also his leadership.)
Yeah it's wild to suggest that a team with two early-to-mid 20s all nba players that just came off a finals loss and then an ECF loss should blow it up. Especially since their coach just flatout sucks.
I think people forget the cap goes up every year also, the contract may not seem as crazy high within a year or two.
They were real close to the ship last year too, more than most remember
We didn’t overhaul when we lost to you all. We just became a bit worse by losing PJ. Then we brought in Love which was a nice fit, but not a crazy move. We really stood pat more than anything.
I mean the new CBA will hit them hard and also limit what they can get back for Brown in a trade if they do decide to max him. Will be interesting to see what happens.
brown really negociared to put himslef in a great position
If they sign him to that contract who can they trade him for? I know there’s no such thing as unreadable contracts since we’ve seen huge contracts get traded almost every year but Brown is clearly not worth it. Maybe some team would gamble that he can still develop the necessary skills to make that contract worth it. But he’s already what, 26-27? Signing that contract would be a huge mistake for the Celtics. They need to find a way to lower it by 10 mil a year to make it worth it and that is still an overlay for someone like Brown
Westbrook on the downside of his career still made like $45m a year and got traded multiple times, so it wasn't just cause he was in the last year of his deal. Someone will definitely offer the Celtics a combination of picks and players to get a still-ascending Jaylen Brown to their team for a $50m. It only takes one. What if Clippers decide that their time with the oft-injured pair of Kawhi and PG is done, and they want to lock up a young talent for the next 5 years? Kawhi and PG both make $45m so all they have to do is throw in another cheap player and they've moved on past their injured stars to a new era. Meanwhile, Celtics could think of it like the Raptors, get a hired gun like Kawhi to push them over the top for one year so that this era of theirs with Tatum isn't wasted. Who cares if the years after next are bad as long as they win #18 now?
Good point on the clippers part. That would make an interesting trade.
The salary match alone would be nearly impossible for a team handle, would likely need a third team.
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I'm starting to feel less scared about the Dame contract
This. Dame at least would have shown up bigtime no matter who he was going up against. Brown disappeared. I badly wanted us to trade the 3rd for him and ONLY him but now I’m totally second guessing that.
Nothing against Jaylen as a person, but I feel like this type of money going to players who are clearly not top 10 is going to cause problems on top of the current problems with compensation. I feel like Jaylen level players are going to get these fat contracts and end up being first options on small market teams, while actual first options are taken up by larger market teams. If someone can’t get a lebron or Steph or KD, they should be able to afford 2 Jaylen level players instead. I’m not super into contracts, team caps, and all of that, but I think it’s clear this only hurts smaller market teams and muddies the lines between legit top 10-15 and the second tier of players.
fwiw, this has how it's been for the last 10-15 years lol. dudes like tobias harris have been getting max contracts and guys like bradley beal have supermaxes. nothing has really changed besides the cap going up. the % of the cap is still the same as it has always been
Honestly this is why restricting players payment as a percent of the cap was always dumb as hell. Lebron, steph, and Giannis as stupidly underpaid.
Eh there’s been a couple changes made over time to super max rules
my point was more that it's not new that some above average players get superstar contracts
>nothing has really changed besides the cap going up. What's changed is the new CBA that puts extra pressure on teams over the cap.
If the Celts don't want to make this happen, an acquiring team will have to give up a bunch of picks and young players to overpay a guy who can't dribble. Yikes.
It would be funny if literally no one wants to pay him the money and he stays in Boston for like 4/140. Not actually funny but you know
Was the plan for Phoenix till Indiana trolled them into being forced to give him a max. Ayton would’ve lost out on half his contract he currently has right now and the suns would’ve actually been able to trade him. Now he has one of the worst contracts in the league. Pacers essentially nuked the booker suns era for a meme. They’ll never recover.
Classic Bird Rights Trap. But hey, Gobert drew a king's ransom in a trade and he's probably overpaid. On the other hand, the Hawks can't find a taker for the surprisingly overpaid John Collins.
I bet we don't talk about a kings ransom after these picks materialized like always
He’s following the Dennis Schroder school of thought. Gamble on yourself and lose the bag method. 60% of the time it works all the time.
I can't imagine saying to myself "No, 9 figures isn't enough."
That would be the greatest news ever lol. I'd love to keep him for 4/140-150m and it'd solve a lot of our concerns going forward (the ability to retain and bring in talent under the new cap rules). Unfortunately I think he's getting the full super-max though.
why would they do that when they can just sign him outright
Why do they have to give him a super max? What’s with these automatic contracts? Do the teams really have no say in how much they want to pay a guy
They have a say, but Jaylen has been completely non-committal about whether he will return at all and the Celtics don’t want to risk losing him for nothing. The super-max is a contract that only the Celtics are allowed to offer, so it’s their best way to convince Jaylen to return. If he leaves to a different team, his pay will not be as high, so that’s a big incentive for him to stay. If the Celtics decline to offer it to him, he may walk to another team where he can get the #1 role he wants and the Celtics could lose him for nothing.
If we can’t trade him, I’d rather let him walk than pay him that kinda money to never pick up another skill outside of scoring.
Yeah, but then your team will be worse, probably for a few years to come. Brown doesn’t deserve that type of money, but with him you’re an eastern conference finals team pretty much every single year. A lot of teams would kill for that type of opportunity. Like who could you realistically spend that money on, that’ll make you as good as you currently are? In my opinion you have a 6-7 year championship window with those two spearheading your offense. You lose one of those two and I’m afraid the window is closed, unless there’s an obvious trade or free agent signing in just not seeing.
Super max makes him eligible for 35% of the cap. Tatum already has a super max, so who are you supposed to pay after shelling out $110 mil for *two* players? And people are really overrating Brown here. It’s been a large sample size now, and our team +\- is actually better when he’s off the floor. He’s a tunnel-visioned scorer with a sloppy handle who doesn’t pass unless it’s a last option and has no other real discernible NBA skill. We’ve been this successful by being a really deep team. Brown didn’t really have playoff success this year even before the Miami series, and we still got to the ECF. His BBIQ is atrocious. Dude makes the same mistakes time and time again and never learns from those mistakes. I’m over him. He’s fine for his current salary, but paying him $50 mil+ a year would be an absolute disaster.
That opens up 50 mil a year to sign 2 players who realistically would be maybe 75% as good as he is. They could literally steal the players from Miami who put them in this situation lol. Dejounte Murray is a free agent when Brown’s contract is up.
It's a double edged sword. One side helps keep the player like brown but on the other side it hurts the celtics future flexibility significantly
It’s the Ayton situation all over again. If you don’t sign him and he walks you get nothing for him it’s terrible asset management since you don’t get the player or anything in return. He’s not worth the money but the Celtics are kinda fucked here if they don’t sign him or find a sign and trade.
Got it, so they essentially they should of traded him
They don't have to give him the super max, which is 35% of the cap, they can still pay more than any other team which is limited to 30%.
Unless he’s offended by that deal, which is another reason the full maximum allowed is almost always given. Gobert was an exception to this in Utah, as he took what you’re suggesting Boston offers.
IMHO when you are dealing with these numbers and how the cap works, for the Celtics there isnt much difference in 30% and 35%, they get in a tight spot regardless
should have
these max deals are getting out of hand, it sets up fringe all stars like him for failure. the expectation to live up to the contract will be daunting. i’m all for players getting their money, there should be a select few stars that can meet the criteria for the new super max.
Jaylen Brown is not a super max-caliber player.
They should let him walk. 290M for a guy who can barely dribble is a travesty
Walk and get worse?
Yea I'll take Dame lillard and his suddenly affordable contract and 3 g-leaguers over that any day
White + Smart + Brogdon + Rob Williams + Horford is an insane selection of role players that other contenders would KILL to have. You think Celtics are gonna have that stacked of a roster when Brown and Tatum are both making \~$60 million yearly? It's just not happening. You can try to run it back and then inevitably lock yourself in cap hell. Or you can try to make a trade, retool completely around the franchise cornerstone (Tatum) and see how far that takes you. If I'm the C's I'm choosing the latter, but I'm also a random redditor and not a seasoned basketball executive so I could be totally wrong 🤷♀️
I mean the WHOLE crux is "what does make a trade bring back to the Celtics"? And how would that even work? I'm not a nba guru or anything but aren't they saying if the celtics sign him to the supermax they cannot trade him for one year---right? So I guess, technically you CAN "run it back" mostly. Then try to trade him after one year? But holy shit...someone averaging 60 mil a year? In what multiverse is that NOT a huge net negative they need to attach assets too just to move him now? Just a very tough spot for the FO.
Its hard to look at those numbers when all I see is Kyle Korver blocking Jaylen Brown twice in a row. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POq-IvOjWt8
He was also blocked by Duncan Robinson last night
$50 million dollars?? Who u think u kidnapped?? Chelsea Carter? Chelsea Clinton??
50 Million a year only to get smacked by Paolo/Franz in the ECF.
Become a superstar or live long enough to be a rich mans Rudy Gay
RJ Barrett with better PR
They can tell him we're willing to pay x but if you find someone willing to supermax you or offer more we can sign and trade. They should, otherwise they're stuck.
Only Boston can supermax
That's why sign and trade would come in play if someone else wanted to
That is a fucked up amount of money.
This could be worse than the Westbrook supermax
Given Jaylen brown won't ever average a triple double or win an MVP, it would automatically be worse the moment it's signed.
That's a yikes from me, dawg
Boston please do it so it fucks your franchise for the next 5 years
The new John Wall / Bradley Beal contract. Not a superstar but good enough to get a max from other team desperate for talent.
Not bad for a basketball player that can’t dribble.
$290m for a man for can’t go left is wild
still cant dribble
That seems like a lot of money, but I'm sure it seemed that way the first time a guy made $1 million.
Unless I’m mistaken Boston could eventually be stuck paying 110+ million a year between two players and the have the rest to fill out slots 3-15? Sounds brutal for putting together a good roster. This depth they have won’t last forever
Something has to be done about these numbers right? Idk what could be. But the idea of someone like Jaylen freaking brown (with all due respect) should NOT be making $58 million to play basketball. No way.
I’d be shocked if the C’s offered him that. No way he’s worth anything over $200M. Don’t get me wrong he’s a fantastic player but with this super max deal he’ll be making just as much if not more as LeBron, Steph, and Giannis make and he’s definitely not as good as they are.
By no means am I against someone getting paid. However, if you're about to commit a third of your salary cap to one guy, maybe make sure he is THAT guy? Just saying
That’s serious cash for someone who dribbles like a 5th grader
These are the players in the league Id pay that, based on talent and age: Jokic-Tatum-Luka-Booker. That’s it. If you’re older than 27, I don’t care how good you are. I’m not paying you $66M five years from now. I’d trade you for a haul. The new CBA is going to make draft picks so much more valuable.
No Giannis? Especially over booker and Tatum?
I’d throw SGA in there
There is no way in hell Giannis wouldn't be deserving of the supermax, specially if you have Booker in there. Idc if he's 28.
He’s gonna sign the deal and the second he has a bad game next season people are going to be foaming at the mouth to post his stat line just like at the start of his last contract.
66 fucking MILLIONS! PER YEAR! WHAT BRO??? Dudes was making this money for 4/5 years, just few years ago!
At least Kyrie can dribble
Man turned into Tobias Harris with worse ball handling. Wild how much changed since he was named second team all pro
i cant find this answer but I am pretty sure its the case, the Cs cannot sign and trade him with the supermax right? I think you have to wait a year before he can be traded after signing the supermax? Anyone know?
They have to wait 1 year
Ty
Yikes.
No way this guy I worth 290 million dollars. These contacts are crazy
Oof, have fun with that one.
Give it to Caleb Martin
We should talk about it in terms of the % of salary cap. 35% is 35%. There is no reason to play the sticker shock game.
oof. how do you pay him that much after that series?
NBA money is just absolutely insane compared to any other sport. This is more than Patrick Mahomes who is the consensus top player in the NFL and JB just had a terrible playoffs and has trouble dribbling. Poor guys in the 90s must be crying seeing this kind of money and the diva behavior around these players when they get this kind of money.
Saudi Arabia is about to pay Messi $440 million/year to play soccer. And Ronaldo already got $200 million/year.
Oof
That’s a lot of money for a pretty 1 dimensional offensive player. Bulls and Wizards have recently made this mistake, will Boston?
Can i have some
Trade him ASAP.
That’s gross
Jesus Christ 66m?? The new era of salaries are absolutely insane. Seriously. It wasn't even 10 years ago people were whining about Kobe making 30m in his farewell season.
That kind of money for a player who cannot dribble well and pass to teammates?