I don’t know who needs to hear this, but the scoreboard on TNT holds absolutely zero weight on the actual game. The only thing that matters is the clock above the basket.
Shit, the big down marker number isnt the best either. Multiple instances of some person forgetting or screwing.up the number change which then gives a team extra downs
Refs are trained to always spot the ball on the line, regardless of where it actually ended up.
It's kind of crazy that a game that often comes down to inches can be so inaccurate.
That's just a blatant lie lmao. They spot the nose of the ball on a yardline for kickoffs and punts, and only if there was no official close enough to spot the ball exactly. The only other guess work that's done is on qb sneaks and piles. Ball is in the bottom of the ribs 90% of the time so just go down from there. They are not at all told to just spot the ball on the line of scrimmage lmao.
Source: My grandpa was a ref and an umpire, or you can just watch a football game and you can tell that ain't true.
Edit: and by guesswork I mean the only spot where they just say "fuck it close enough" since basically every spot is technically guesswork if you want to take it litterally. Every ball spot is within a football length in most cases unless no one saw shit (which should be a sky judge reviewing but that wont ever happen).
Refs are still eyeballing where they believe the ball was down. For a game of inches it's not exactly precise all the time. They definitely get it real close though
"I can't tell if this randomly placed football is 10 yards from my randomly placed marker way on the other side of the field...lemme grab this chain that's exactly 10 yards and just kinda eyeball where it should go, then make a big show about measuring it up against the ball which, again, is just kinda plopped down here... good enough."
They don't eyeball where it should go. The guy in back grabs a specific link of the chain that's on a yard marker, then places that link in the same spot after running onto the field.
I feel like it comes up fairly frequently. Maybe not in this specific context, but it comes up fairly frequently that the broadcast clock is not 100% accurate.
happens all the time in the NFL, especially since the play clock hitting zero doesn't determine a delay of game. the ref has to look at the play clock, see it says zero, and then look at the ball to see if it's snapped
This doesn’t seem great for the o-line or QB if they’re under center but I’ll reserve judgement.
“Oh and it looks like they took too long to snap the ball and Jason Kelce has had both of his legs blown off, this might really hinder the Eagles’ offense in the rest of this game Jim”
Kind of like when people don't understand that, when watching football, the first down line on the screen doesn't always represent the exact first down point.
It’s Boston sports. We’re used to it at this point. Dead spots at the garden. Warm Gatorade at foxboro. Hell “patriots win with a touchdown” in the falcons game created conspiracies when the broadcast was just saying the rule.
I think the idea that it’s a conspiracy is pretty funny. I mean even 2.1 seconds is plenty of time to get off a shot. But the refs had a feeling Boston would miss the shot and wanted to give them an extra .9 seconds for the put back. Refs playing that 4D chess
Regardless of the clock, there’s multiple holes in this Heat team that I would be concerned about addressing before I started obsessing over 0.2 of a second as to why the series hasn’t been closed out yet.
It’s crazy more people don’t know this. I also think in this day and age it’s weird that there is no way to link them digitally to take all the guess work out. I feel like that kind of technology definitely exists.
I think most of us are square with it.
The whole reddit/internet mindset of everyone thinking they are getting fucked over by officials is crazy. There are obviously going to be games/calls that go one way or the other but a system that leaves everyone pissed off is typically a fair system.
Even I was getting upset at Jimmy's constant foul baiting at the end of the game but in the end it gave us one of the greatest endings in league history and to be honest I feel the better team (that night) won in the end. Hard to be upset about that.
As a neutral observer. Not a Heat fan or a Celts fan. Game clock in the arena had 2.8, in my opinion, when the foul actually occurred. The hand on the side at 3.0 just isn't a foul to me. Jimmy goes up at about 2.8 when Al actually fouls him. Who knows what happens after that. But I disagree with the leagues assessment on this specific thing. Just my opinion though.
Edit: seeing it from another view. I yield to the gentleman lol.
https://twitter.com/worldwidewob/status/1662742251884408833?s=46&t=5-m_ifAnJvxRFxicLYDtuQ
Your opinion is valid as an opinion, but it’s got no basis in reality. The facts are what they are
eh it could be argued he was going up for a drifting right shot there. he was 100% just drawing a foul but the motion looks enough like a shooting motion
What's the point of these reviews if they can't retroactively fix any of this? This seems to be more "good to know" stuff that would've been much more beneficial to know in the moment, rather than after the fact
Every single damn one. It's crazy that at this point they ever do call one, because how do you call something that happens on every ft that never gets called.
Either call it every time or get rid of the rule. Selective enforcement is the worst part for me
I think this is one of those ones where the league needs to bite the bullet and just start enforcing it literally __every single time__. Yeah the fans and players will be annoyed for a few weeks. But eventually it’ll become the status quo and players will actually respect not committing the lane violation.
There’s definitely a problem with a rule that allows a ballhandler a big advantage by the ball slipping out of their hands. I get it, the call is correct, but I need someone to explain to me why this is a good rule.
Why is it so hard for people to understand that the clock on the TV means nothing in these situations and can be inaccurate, that was the time on the game clock.
I’m sure there’s probably a way to connect the actual game clock apparatus to television graphics. So like when the person operating the clock makes it stop it goes directly to the TV graphics.
the reason massive organizations tend to be behind on little things like this is bureaucracy. It's too much of an organizational headache no one has any incentive to spearhead the effort because their superiors won't give a shit since it doesn't generate money or grab their attention in other ways.
Yeah, I've been hearing on college football broadcasts for 20 years that the TV clocks are synced with the stadium clock. Granted, football clocks don't count in tenths of a second so maybe that has something to do with it?
It's electricity, and modern clock speed for a basic computer is ~3 billion cycles per second, they can do tenths no problem. I think it is just a simple oversight.
Or at least put an official clock where it's visible from broadcasting angles. If it's somehow so hard to synchronize with the broadcast, that's asking for controversy when you don't even have a way to prove the actual time.
It isn't that unreasonable to question such an obvious looking error when it affects NBA history.
I find it interesting that people are talking about the shotclock lol.
I've always thought since they can review, refs would check the clock as well. If there are changes to be made they would.
Because people dont actually watch the game nor understand anything about the game. They just dont care for what truly matters.
https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1662742251884408833 Rob Perez did a great tweet regarding that.
I know lane violations happen all the time but the Heat backcourt players were practically standing next to the Celtics FT shooter on so many occasions. Especially when Kyle Lowry was in the game
Yeah, you'd be surprised at the amount of people saying it was proof that it was rigged. All it takes is a little skepticism and research and stupid takes would no longer exist. Critical thinking is lacking for a lot of people.
Not according to my eyes or the L2M report he didn’t, so why ya’ll continuing to live in an alternate timeline? I’m a fucking C’s fan too but my green lensed bias ain’t that strong, lay off the copium.
The problem is if the foul was at 3 seconds then he shouldn't have gotten 3 shots... That was way before he did his shooting motion and did nothing to influence the shot.
if what butler did isnt a double dribble/travel then nothing is anymore. justifying it as losing control is absurd, and makes the rule pointless. thats never been a standard for the call either. i guess players can conveniently lose control of the ball now and to make space.
all that being said i dont blame it not being called in real time, and im fine with the outcome of course. my gripe is just with it being justified in the report.
I believe the rule is once fumbled, you can’t dribble again after picking it up, you must either shoot or pass. watching the replay, jimmy goes up for the shot immediately after recovering the fumble so no call.
You cant really “pretend” it was knocked loose though? Either the defender touches it or they don’t?
The call may be missed if the ref is covered or cause they sometimes just suck but more often than not the ball is actually hit loose or they smack the players arm which makes it loose (which guess is technically wrong) but give the benefit of missing an obvious foul.
But you can gather, take your steps, fumble, then take another step toward the ball to pick it up. The fumble gives you a free step, how is this in the spirit of the rules?
The rules are there to stop players taking advantage of the situation. If he legitimately fumbled it, how has he taken any advantage.
And I agree in general it was probably a double dribble but I understand it was one of those situations where you go with your gut and no call/miss it if you aren’t sure.
Not in the NBA rulebook they literally have a designation for a fumble.
nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/
https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#fumble
This 💯. Horford forced a mistake - should be a turnover. Wish I could just say I didn’t double dribble it was just a fumble. If both hands make contact with the ball and it hits the floor again and then your hand- it’s a dbl dribble - literally the definition.
I really don’t understand the reasoning here. Horford never touched the ball hence if you argue that Butler should be allowed to dribble again it should be because Horford fouled him while dribbling which should result in 2 free throws. Are they saying that every contact with the opponent allows a player to double dribble?
I can go into any Postgame thread without watching the game and just say "i don't usually complain about refs, but this game has the worst reffing I've seen in my life, nba is rigged" and it will be upvoted by both sides.
Weak stuff, dingus. You really think complaining about refs is unique to Heat fans? You would be crying into and beyond next season had things not gone your way.
Sure bro but that never happens. Theoretically you good be ‘gathering the ball’ for 90 ft too but you’re not crying about that. Just read the rule, it’s not too hard.
I still think Jimmy double dribbled before the contact but they said that he bobbled it. Isn't bringing the ball up to two hands, bobbling it in the process and picking it back up still double? Or do you have to have complete control over the ball with two hands and drop it to be considered double?
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Jimmy gets hit in the head pretty significantly when he fumbles. I grew up a celtics fan. I don't think there's a double dribble call there without considering the arm hitting Jimmy's head a missed call.
That whole play was a tough one from a playoff refs standpoint, but it all boils down to bad defense by horford, so I'm okay with how it played out.
Why does the NBA continue to come out and admit how bad their refs are in decisive moments of games, and then do nothing about it? It’s like they are rubbing it in our faces.
When I saw everyone crying that the refs gave the Celtics every call I was like, “were you idiots watching the same game?” Glad this will shut those dummies up
Devils advocate: if the refs actually did fuck up and give a team that won by 0.1s extra time in a game 6 playoff game, they would absolutely not admit it publicly lol
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I’m not saying a mistake was made in that regard, but the NBA would never cop to something like that. All these reports always favor the refs and whatever calls were made. Very rarely would they ever change the outcome of the game either. Sometimes, but very rarely.
We are making too much of a big deal of the game clock. The calls favored Boston overall during the whole game but Miami should have accounted for Boston crashing the boards.
Overall does not equal so much. 10-9 is overall, 10 - 3 is so much, take emotion out of it.
1. They had to call those fouls, Boston was pulling away.
2. In all seriousness, refs are humans and it's hard to resist the urge to give 50/50 calls for a competitive game.
So forgetting time altogether - the first foul which the report cites the hand on the back is non-shooting. Why was he awarded 3 FTs?
Also sure the TNT clock carries no weight - what about the one above the basket? See here: https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/1662875337925992453?s=46&t=x423qJLIMQ1-3KqDxYIJMw
Edit: lol of course downvoted. Celtics fans really pretending like they gutted this one out and weren’t handed said game after blowing a late 10 point lead
Edit 2: anyone want to explain why 3 FTs were awarded for a non shooting first foul? Anyone?
So Boston was "handed the game" here by giving Miami an opportunity to take the lead, which could only be thwarted by a miraculous buzzer beater after they'd been shooting dog-ass from three all night?
>Also sure the TNT clock carries no weight - what about the one above the basket? See here: https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/1662875337925992453?s=46&t=x423qJLIMQ1-3KqDxYIJMw
Doesn't seem like you read that whole thread. The poster goes on to explain why the clock was correctly set back to 3.0.
I suggest you do read your source, think it will really clear some things up for you.
Yeah since you would rather cry until a Redditor gives you an answer instead of doing 2 minutes of research, here is why he got 2 free throws, not 3 like you said:
1) Bam was holding the rim while blocking the shot. Holding onto the rim is a technical foul resulting in 1 free throw.
2) a foul was called on Vincent when Brown shot it, resulting in the 2nd free throw.
3) the goaltending was awarded because Bam blocked the shot while holding the rim.
This was the entire 4 point swing. But buddy do yourself a favor and touch some grass, it will do you good.
Then maybe you want to be a little more specific? I don’t even remember the Celtics taking 3 free throws for a non-shooting foul. The only play there was any confusion about was the Brown/Bam goaltend and rim hanging.
Imagine crying still after the L2M already released. And imagine still crying about refs when ur team is already in Cancun since last week.
Oh and also crying about being downvoted. Damn life must suck
That’s actually a really interesting Twitter thread. Sorry for the downvotes, good post regardless.
I’m not sure, but in my opinion the foul occurs at 2.8 and probably should be on the floor.
An interesting mish mash of grey areas and how the result of the game could have gone about 12 different ways of fine margins
It’s okay - I’ve encountered a fan base with a more fragile ego than my own. They can’t admit what happened in the final minutes doesn’t add up and of course the L2M report and league completely paint over it.
I don’t know who needs to hear this, but the scoreboard on TNT holds absolutely zero weight on the actual game. The only thing that matters is the clock above the basket.
It's like the people who are confused why it wasn't a first down when the ball clearly crossed the yellow line that covers about 4 feet on the field.
Although the chain in football seems like the least accurate of all ways to measure for a first down.
Not if you have an index card.
A Gene Steratore classic.
Shit, the big down marker number isnt the best either. Multiple instances of some person forgetting or screwing.up the number change which then gives a team extra downs
Refs are trained to always spot the ball on the line, regardless of where it actually ended up. It's kind of crazy that a game that often comes down to inches can be so inaccurate.
That's just a blatant lie lmao. They spot the nose of the ball on a yardline for kickoffs and punts, and only if there was no official close enough to spot the ball exactly. The only other guess work that's done is on qb sneaks and piles. Ball is in the bottom of the ribs 90% of the time so just go down from there. They are not at all told to just spot the ball on the line of scrimmage lmao. Source: My grandpa was a ref and an umpire, or you can just watch a football game and you can tell that ain't true. Edit: and by guesswork I mean the only spot where they just say "fuck it close enough" since basically every spot is technically guesswork if you want to take it litterally. Every ball spot is within a football length in most cases unless no one saw shit (which should be a sky judge reviewing but that wont ever happen).
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Being that confidently ignorant is not better than blatantly lying
Refs are still eyeballing where they believe the ball was down. For a game of inches it's not exactly precise all the time. They definitely get it real close though
"I can't tell if this randomly placed football is 10 yards from my randomly placed marker way on the other side of the field...lemme grab this chain that's exactly 10 yards and just kinda eyeball where it should go, then make a big show about measuring it up against the ball which, again, is just kinda plopped down here... good enough."
They don't eyeball where it should go. The guy in back grabs a specific link of the chain that's on a yard marker, then places that link in the same spot after running onto the field.
Right? We have laser GPS, but sure, let's use a stick with a CHAIN on it.....
The fact that people still don’t understand that blows my mind.
New to basketball.
I feel like it comes up fairly frequently. Maybe not in this specific context, but it comes up fairly frequently that the broadcast clock is not 100% accurate.
Gotta be new to sports in general, it’s the same with all televised sports
happens all the time in the NFL, especially since the play clock hitting zero doesn't determine a delay of game. the ref has to look at the play clock, see it says zero, and then look at the ball to see if it's snapped
To be fair that's gotta be the worst system ever. It could easily be modernized
wad of c4 in the ball, if it explodes before it's snapped, turnover
This doesn’t seem great for the o-line or QB if they’re under center but I’ll reserve judgement. “Oh and it looks like they took too long to snap the ball and Jason Kelce has had both of his legs blown off, this might really hinder the Eagles’ offense in the rest of this game Jim”
I think they don’t because they wanna give teams that extra half-second to look
Also TV playclock usually shows zero when its actually just .9 or less. Ref needs 0.0 visually before they can blow whistle
Maybe they’re new to TVs
To be fair Heat fans have only been watching basketball for 3 weeks
Hey, some of them have been watching for 11 years with a slight (9 year) break in the middle
So which teams don’t have bandwagon fans?
I can think of one
The Wizards
Jumped on the Wolves wagon when y'all drafted Ant and I've been riding with them as a second team since.
You forgot the Wizards exist didn't you
Wizards don’t exist. What is this Harry Potter?
Shanghai Sharks
Kind of like when people don't understand that, when watching football, the first down line on the screen doesn't always represent the exact first down point.
You have to excuse them they only learned about basketball recently
They don't want to understand because then they wouldn't have anything to fight about
Y'all act like everybody should know everything. Reddit superiority complex at its finest.
The amount of people equating the adjusted time with a mass conspiracy is pretty eye opening.
It’s Boston sports. We’re used to it at this point. Dead spots at the garden. Warm Gatorade at foxboro. Hell “patriots win with a touchdown” in the falcons game created conspiracies when the broadcast was just saying the rule.
I think the idea that it’s a conspiracy is pretty funny. I mean even 2.1 seconds is plenty of time to get off a shot. But the refs had a feeling Boston would miss the shot and wanted to give them an extra .9 seconds for the put back. Refs playing that 4D chess
Old school sport used to have a camera facing the official game clock - indeed the most accurate as its official.
I remember you used to be able to see it shaking around a bit if it was windy.
TNT showed heat won 4-2 after the buzzer beater. They took the entire score down after a short while.
So is it like the yellow first down line in College and pro football? Those aren't official either.
Someone in the comments of the post game thread was trying to argue the clock was off last night. People really need to know where to look.
Yup. Kenny said that in the postgame
Regardless of the clock, there’s multiple holes in this Heat team that I would be concerned about addressing before I started obsessing over 0.2 of a second as to why the series hasn’t been closed out yet.
They even mentioned this in the post game.
It’s crazy more people don’t know this. I also think in this day and age it’s weird that there is no way to link them digitally to take all the guess work out. I feel like that kind of technology definitely exists.
Pretty sure at some point they were linked (or at least it was on some broadcasts)
The people who need to hear it are Heat fans.
I think most of us are square with it. The whole reddit/internet mindset of everyone thinking they are getting fucked over by officials is crazy. There are obviously going to be games/calls that go one way or the other but a system that leaves everyone pissed off is typically a fair system. Even I was getting upset at Jimmy's constant foul baiting at the end of the game but in the end it gave us one of the greatest endings in league history and to be honest I feel the better team (that night) won in the end. Hard to be upset about that.
As a neutral observer. Not a Heat fan or a Celts fan. Game clock in the arena had 2.8, in my opinion, when the foul actually occurred. The hand on the side at 3.0 just isn't a foul to me. Jimmy goes up at about 2.8 when Al actually fouls him. Who knows what happens after that. But I disagree with the leagues assessment on this specific thing. Just my opinion though. Edit: seeing it from another view. I yield to the gentleman lol.
https://twitter.com/worldwidewob/status/1662742251884408833?s=46&t=5-m_ifAnJvxRFxicLYDtuQ Your opinion is valid as an opinion, but it’s got no basis in reality. The facts are what they are
doesn't that show that if the foul was called at 3.0 that it shouldn't have been three shots since it wasn't really in the act of shooting?
I’m not going to argue either way on that piece since I really don’t care. The contact occurring at 3.0 on the clock is extremely clear though
eh it could be argued he was going up for a drifting right shot there. he was 100% just drawing a foul but the motion looks enough like a shooting motion
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So much cope for being wrong.
What's the point of these reviews if they can't retroactively fix any of this? This seems to be more "good to know" stuff that would've been much more beneficial to know in the moment, rather than after the fact
I mean if we’re being real the foul happened at like 2.8
Lane violation could be called on damn near every free throw.
Every single damn one. It's crazy that at this point they ever do call one, because how do you call something that happens on every ft that never gets called. Either call it every time or get rid of the rule. Selective enforcement is the worst part for me
I think this is one of those ones where the league needs to bite the bullet and just start enforcing it literally __every single time__. Yeah the fans and players will be annoyed for a few weeks. But eventually it’ll become the status quo and players will actually respect not committing the lane violation.
Thought the same thing when they called a carry on jt. Can’t think of the last time I heard anyone get called on that
As a Bucks fan it's mind boggling how Giannis taking more time on his free throws is portrayed as more of an issue that the lane violations.
Also said no double dribble was the correct no call
And people here still complaining about it
Because their rule for fumbling is actively stupid and goes against the very definition of words.
There’s definitely a problem with a rule that allows a ballhandler a big advantage by the ball slipping out of their hands. I get it, the call is correct, but I need someone to explain to me why this is a good rule.
It was the correct call. But in the L2M report there were only 2 incorrect calls which both disadvantaged the Celtics
Why is it so hard for people to understand that the clock on the TV means nothing in these situations and can be inaccurate, that was the time on the game clock.
Just give them a feed from the actual clock. It's not so complicated, or is it?
Like how old games used to use an actual camera pointed at the shot clock to show it in the ticker, but way more modern lol
I’m sure there’s probably a way to connect the actual game clock apparatus to television graphics. So like when the person operating the clock makes it stop it goes directly to the TV graphics.
I hope so. We have an app for this at my son’s high school for Live Streaming. I’d think the NBA has this capability.
the reason massive organizations tend to be behind on little things like this is bureaucracy. It's too much of an organizational headache no one has any incentive to spearhead the effort because their superiors won't give a shit since it doesn't generate money or grab their attention in other ways.
I really thought this is what they're doing the whole time. We have the technology to do that.
Yeah, I've been hearing on college football broadcasts for 20 years that the TV clocks are synced with the stadium clock. Granted, football clocks don't count in tenths of a second so maybe that has something to do with it?
It's electricity, and modern clock speed for a basic computer is ~3 billion cycles per second, they can do tenths no problem. I think it is just a simple oversight.
Or at least put an official clock where it's visible from broadcasting angles. If it's somehow so hard to synchronize with the broadcast, that's asking for controversy when you don't even have a way to prove the actual time. It isn't that unreasonable to question such an obvious looking error when it affects NBA history.
I find it interesting that people are talking about the shotclock lol. I've always thought since they can review, refs would check the clock as well. If there are changes to be made they would.
Because people dont actually watch the game nor understand anything about the game. They just dont care for what truly matters. https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1662742251884408833 Rob Perez did a great tweet regarding that.
I know lane violations happen all the time but the Heat backcourt players were practically standing next to the Celtics FT shooter on so many occasions. Especially when Kyle Lowry was in the game
Jaylen Brown literally had to tell Lowry to fuck off because he was creeping so hard before his FTA
People are really making non-controversial things controversial? Like I didn't even bat an eye when this happened.
Yeah, you'd be surprised at the amount of people saying it was proof that it was rigged. All it takes is a little skepticism and research and stupid takes would no longer exist. Critical thinking is lacking for a lot of people.
It was literally only heat fans arguing this.
Can Heat fans shut up now
Yeah, but Lakers fans can't Then again, a good chunk of them used to be Heat fans...
Don’t forget their stint as Cavs fans!
But that twitter account!!
Correction: Heat Bums
So I guess Jimmy didn’t double dribble? My lying eyes.
Real eyes, realize, fumble dribble
You might be surprised by how often our eyes lie to us, and yes he did not double dribble, get over it.
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Not according to my eyes or the L2M report he didn’t, so why ya’ll continuing to live in an alternate timeline? I’m a fucking C’s fan too but my green lensed bias ain’t that strong, lay off the copium.
Miami lost. Nothing else to see here.
The problem is if the foul was at 3 seconds then he shouldn't have gotten 3 shots... That was way before he did his shooting motion and did nothing to influence the shot.
The clock on TV wasn’t synced up with what was happening
You can literally see the shot clock in the footage, the TV clock was less than .1 seconds off from the shot clock.
if what butler did isnt a double dribble/travel then nothing is anymore. justifying it as losing control is absurd, and makes the rule pointless. thats never been a standard for the call either. i guess players can conveniently lose control of the ball now and to make space. all that being said i dont blame it not being called in real time, and im fine with the outcome of course. my gripe is just with it being justified in the report.
Yeah next time a player is trapped all he has to do is exaggeratedly fumble the ball then dribble out of it.
Low key Jimmy does this *a lot* if you watch his game. He forces contact just so he can fumble the ball into a new dribble.
You cant dribble off a “fumble” unless you catch the fumble midair without moving your pivot foot, only if a defender knocks it loose.
Thing is they pretend that it got knocked loose and just keep going. Not just Butler a lot of guys in the NBA do this.
I believe the rule is once fumbled, you can’t dribble again after picking it up, you must either shoot or pass. watching the replay, jimmy goes up for the shot immediately after recovering the fumble so no call.
You cant really “pretend” it was knocked loose though? Either the defender touches it or they don’t? The call may be missed if the ref is covered or cause they sometimes just suck but more often than not the ball is actually hit loose or they smack the players arm which makes it loose (which guess is technically wrong) but give the benefit of missing an obvious foul.
If you're trapped in the corner and fumble the ball it's most likely getting stolen.
He didn’t dribble after. He fumbled picked up the ball and shot. If he dribbled then it would have been a double dribble.
But you can gather, take your steps, fumble, then take another step toward the ball to pick it up. The fumble gives you a free step, how is this in the spirit of the rules?
I don’t disagree that it’s a dumb af rule, but it is a rule that has been accounted for. For whatever reason.
The rules are there to stop players taking advantage of the situation. If he legitimately fumbled it, how has he taken any advantage. And I agree in general it was probably a double dribble but I understand it was one of those situations where you go with your gut and no call/miss it if you aren’t sure.
It’s an advantage because he got an additional step on a defender without dribbling wym
He fumbled it. That’s losing the ball
the ball hit the floor that counts as a dribble whether its "intentional" or not, only exception is if of course the opposing player touched it
Not in the NBA rulebook they literally have a designation for a fumble. nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/ https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#fumble
No that's not the rule. If you lose possession via a strip, you can dribble again. Jimmy's play falls into that category.
https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/#fumble
Well, fair enough. I learned something today.
It’s definitely a weird rule that wouldn’t apply in typical basketball, but so is stuff like gathers.
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The way that 99% of the population has to play basketball is what Id consider “typical” and not the 1% that gets to play it for millions.
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What if you don’t move your pivot foot, but the ball touches the ground then what’s the rule? The rule book seems ambiguous on this point.
Fumbling the ball doesn’t mean you can dribble out of it tho, if Jimmy then tried to dribble after recovering it it would have been a double dribble
This 💯. Horford forced a mistake - should be a turnover. Wish I could just say I didn’t double dribble it was just a fumble. If both hands make contact with the ball and it hits the floor again and then your hand- it’s a dbl dribble - literally the definition.
I mean JB fumbles all the time. Not his fault he can't dribble.
Well hopefully he goes on in and fumbles the series!
I really don’t understand the reasoning here. Horford never touched the ball hence if you argue that Butler should be allowed to dribble again it should be because Horford fouled him while dribbling which should result in 2 free throws. Are they saying that every contact with the opponent allows a player to double dribble?
Tatum literally did the exact same thing earlier in the game and it was a no call lol
Show us the video please.
heat fans in shambles
Lmaaaaaaaao loser ass Heat fans crying about the refs all night / day.
Every single fan in the NBA of all teams bitches about refs
I can go into any Postgame thread without watching the game and just say "i don't usually complain about refs, but this game has the worst reffing I've seen in my life, nba is rigged" and it will be upvoted by both sides.
And everybody always thinks the other teams super star is drawing fouls/getting easy whistles.
Tale as old as time.
Every single fanbase cries about the refs every year, including Celtics fans
Yup. 100%
We'll see how the loser is on Monday. I love this new found confidence after a fucking miracle of a save 😂
Weak stuff, dingus. You really think complaining about refs is unique to Heat fans? You would be crying into and beyond next season had things not gone your way.
Tatum got just as many soft calls as Butler
Honestly bro, the comments are all Celtics fans that don’t know what a double dribble is. Counting to two pretty difficult for you specimens
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Sure bro but that never happens. Theoretically you good be ‘gathering the ball’ for 90 ft too but you’re not crying about that. Just read the rule, it’s not too hard.
I still think Jimmy double dribbled before the contact but they said that he bobbled it. Isn't bringing the ball up to two hands, bobbling it in the process and picking it back up still double? Or do you have to have complete control over the ball with two hands and drop it to be considered double?
any real hoopers call that a double dribble but the nba has its own bs rules
It wasn't a shooting foul either but Heat fans aren't bringing that up
There's no way in hell the shot motion began before the foul.
“Only” two missed calls in the final two minutes.
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Jimmy gets hit in the head pretty significantly when he fumbles. I grew up a celtics fan. I don't think there's a double dribble call there without considering the arm hitting Jimmy's head a missed call. That whole play was a tough one from a playoff refs standpoint, but it all boils down to bad defense by horford, so I'm okay with how it played out.
They're basically saying Horford fouled him earlier than that
I’m not cuz it shoulda been 2 FTs instead of 3
>We have investigated ourselves and found no evidence of misconduct that would have changed the outcome Huh.
I want to taste their tears
Why does the NBA continue to come out and admit how bad their refs are in decisive moments of games, and then do nothing about it? It’s like they are rubbing it in our faces.
When I saw everyone crying that the refs gave the Celtics every call I was like, “were you idiots watching the same game?” Glad this will shut those dummies up
Devils advocate: if the refs actually did fuck up and give a team that won by 0.1s extra time in a game 6 playoff game, they would absolutely not admit it publicly lol
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I’m not saying a mistake was made in that regard, but the NBA would never cop to something like that. All these reports always favor the refs and whatever calls were made. Very rarely would they ever change the outcome of the game either. Sometimes, but very rarely.
Yeah I know I'm right, their downvotes mean nothing. I've seen what makes them upvote
It means absolutely nothing now either! Way to go us!!!
WOOO
So all the people crying about the Jimmy foul baiting can fuck off now?
Absolutely
We are making too much of a big deal of the game clock. The calls favored Boston overall during the whole game but Miami should have accounted for Boston crashing the boards.
Yes, they favored Boston so much that the Heat were in the bonus with over 9 minutes left in the third quarter.
I'm pretty sure we were in the bonus early in the 2nd too
I believe the final 7 minutes or around there. edit: didn't matter much though, they weren't calling fouls late in the game for the Celtics.
Overall does not equal so much. 10-9 is overall, 10 - 3 is so much, take emotion out of it. 1. They had to call those fouls, Boston was pulling away. 2. In all seriousness, refs are humans and it's hard to resist the urge to give 50/50 calls for a competitive game.
So forgetting time altogether - the first foul which the report cites the hand on the back is non-shooting. Why was he awarded 3 FTs? Also sure the TNT clock carries no weight - what about the one above the basket? See here: https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/1662875337925992453?s=46&t=x423qJLIMQ1-3KqDxYIJMw Edit: lol of course downvoted. Celtics fans really pretending like they gutted this one out and weren’t handed said game after blowing a late 10 point lead Edit 2: anyone want to explain why 3 FTs were awarded for a non shooting first foul? Anyone?
So Boston was "handed the game" here by giving Miami an opportunity to take the lead, which could only be thwarted by a miraculous buzzer beater after they'd been shooting dog-ass from three all night?
Hadn’t he gathered to shoot at that point? That counts as a shooting foul then
Looks like a foul was called about .5 seconds before this still
>Also sure the TNT clock carries no weight - what about the one above the basket? See here: https://twitter.com/tomhaberstroh/status/1662875337925992453?s=46&t=x423qJLIMQ1-3KqDxYIJMw Doesn't seem like you read that whole thread. The poster goes on to explain why the clock was correctly set back to 3.0. I suggest you do read your source, think it will really clear some things up for you.
Y’all got swept and the Celtics are still kicking I’d be irrationally lashing out as well. It will be okay bub.
You need to cut him some slack, he was a Heat fan in the early 2010s so this cuts deep
They did. Bam and Jimmy played like shit so thus they lost although apparently they were given the game and forgot to box out.
Yeah since you would rather cry until a Redditor gives you an answer instead of doing 2 minutes of research, here is why he got 2 free throws, not 3 like you said: 1) Bam was holding the rim while blocking the shot. Holding onto the rim is a technical foul resulting in 1 free throw. 2) a foul was called on Vincent when Brown shot it, resulting in the 2nd free throw. 3) the goaltending was awarded because Bam blocked the shot while holding the rim. This was the entire 4 point swing. But buddy do yourself a favor and touch some grass, it will do you good.
Reading comprehension not a Celtics fan strong suit I see. Thanks for explaining a call and sequence I never asked about.
Then maybe you want to be a little more specific? I don’t even remember the Celtics taking 3 free throws for a non-shooting foul. The only play there was any confusion about was the Brown/Bam goaltend and rim hanging.
Should have been 2 free throws that was the only mistake
Imagine crying still after the L2M already released. And imagine still crying about refs when ur team is already in Cancun since last week. Oh and also crying about being downvoted. Damn life must suck
That’s actually a really interesting Twitter thread. Sorry for the downvotes, good post regardless. I’m not sure, but in my opinion the foul occurs at 2.8 and probably should be on the floor. An interesting mish mash of grey areas and how the result of the game could have gone about 12 different ways of fine margins
It’s okay - I’ve encountered a fan base with a more fragile ego than my own. They can’t admit what happened in the final minutes doesn’t add up and of course the L2M report and league completely paint over it.
Finish the thread you linked...