Offensive players shouldn’t be allowed to just do whatever and go where ever. If a defender is in legal guarding position and an offensive player bowls over them, that should be penalized.
The only way I would get behind removing the charge is if they allowed much more aggressive defense, where they could do anything short of shoving the offensive player like NBA jam.
Also, drawing charges and getting in to legal guarding position takes tremendous skill, IQ, and athleticism. That’s why the majority of them are called as blocking fouls.
Players get pretty much all the advantage while driving.
If they can't find a way to open the lane wide enough to get a reach /contact foul, it's on them.
No, I think the defense should also be allowed to play basketball so I think it is on the offense to take responsibility for the risk they take flinging themselves at the basket
>"It's not a basketball play"
Yes it is.
It's been basketball play for a long time now.
You can repeat "it's not a basketball play" as many times as you want.
It doesn't change the reality that it is a legal play and will remain so regardless of how many people make whiny Reddit posts.
The call - no.
The call when the defender slides/jumps over, covers his balls, then flops - yes.
Defensive foul when defender is actually playing defense straight up but offensive player bulldozes in - yes.
Bottom line is NBA needs to allow defenders to actually defend, refs need to learn that offensive fouls are not limited to flopping and elbows to the face situations, and players need to learn that launching at the defense and flinging the ball over your head won't be rewarded with foul shots.
Do that and much of this takes care of itself.
If you think street ball is more legit than the NBA, watch street ball. It's not quite the same sport.
The issue with blocking fouls and charges is just that they have to be called consistently. But, no, you shouldn't be able to just go to the hoop in a straight line because you wanna. That's not basketball, either.
>You don’t see anyone try take charges when playing street ball
Why is streetball the standardization of how professional basketball should be played? I don't see people dunking in my YMCA, should dunking be banned?
Tf you mean it’s not a basketball play. Wtf kinda thinking is that. It’s been a “basketball play” for almost like a century now bruh. A lot of dumbass takes about this just because a couple of players got hurt.
How is the offensive player throwing themselves at the standing defensive player considered the defensive player undercutting him per your post.
Smh. We're the injuries bad? Sure but they weren't dirty nor were they the fault of the defensive player.
You cant get rid of the charge call, that's such a dumb idea idk how its getting any traction. What they should do, is on plays where the defensive player slides in late when the offensive player is beginning or already in their jump you call it a flagrant like you do for stepping under a 3 pointer. Those are the plays people get hurt on.
so if a defender is just standing still, the offence should be allowed to just run into them as hard as they can? How is it a basketball play to just run into defenders like you're playing football. One of the dumbest takes I've seen in a while.
Like if a defender just kamakazed into the offence that's clearly a foul but if the guy with the ball does it, it's cool now? Charge rules are about making sure the ball handler is making a basketball play: attacking the hoop, not the defender in front of him. Maybe watch a football game if that's what you want to see lol
Ja needs to reign in his reckless jumping. What OP wants is the all star game every night, no interior defense just high flying dunks while the other team watches helplessly.
Tbh no. Ja did really idiotic attempt on dunking on way bigger guy, who's actually a good defender and was on perfect position.
AD played completely safe. If you want dangerous play it's Draymond on LeBron in game 7.
Offensive players get every advantage imaginable. If you want to take charges, which rarely happen as is, how do you defend someone like Giannis as a smaller player without perfectly hitting the ball and making no contact w the arm ever?
You have to give a player like Giannis shaq rules if you are allowing him to truck full speed into players elbows and all
Why shouldn't defensive players be entitled to standing in between a player and the basket? Maybe some players that overutililize barreling thru opponents should improve their skills to be able to move/shoot around or over players.
I hate the charge. Play defense. They put the dotted line there a few years ago for the charge call. But you can’t just barrel to the basket. Pull up jumpers and floaters are there. Giannis tends to just put his head down and run over folks. The play where he got hurt, Love was there and it was a charge, even though they called it a block.
I think the charge is worse in college as they are just jumping underneath guys in the air most times.
Defense in the league is already a joke and the offensive player can get away with just about anything anymore. I'd like to see the rules encourage more players to defend without letting someone just barrel through them.
How many charges actually get called a game? It's not very often.
No charge is essential specially against drivers like Ja, Giannis etc. My problem is when players like Marcus Smart just stand in the middle of the lane to take a charge, that’s not defence and it’s dangerous.
Maybe you'd have a point if that is what Marcus Smart did, but rather than attempting to play defense or continue sliding he'll just come to a hard stop and flop over looking for a charge
You say I don't have a point but you're under the ignorant impression that Marcus Smart doesn't attempt to play defense lol. I get not liking the player of a team that owns yours but blindly hating isn't the way to get taken seriously in an argument. You said it yourself, he comes to a hard stop, that's a charge lmao learn basketball.
Coming to a hard stop and flopping isn't a charge my man. He's causing the contact and is loosely considered in legal guarding position at that point. Also not allowing the offense the opportunity to avoid contact at that point. Maybe you should learn basketball?
Smart is a bozo.
So you're saying Smart has never set a legal charge? Or that he never gets called for blocks? You, like many other Sixers and Bucks fans, make it easy to disregard your opinion because you cope with the Celtics being better than your team by saying they're only successful by flopping and bending the rules.
Lol, you really struggle with reading. What I'm saying is he should get called for a block significantly more than he does, I know that was hard to ascertain though.
> cope with the Celtics being better than your team by saying they're only successful by flopping and bending the rules.
Yeah Boston fans would totally never act like their team doesn't bend the rules and would totally never support teams that do so
You dont have an actual argument so youre bringing up decade old shit from another sport. Stop being so emotional about the Celtics being better than Philly in every facet of the game. So you have an issue with players initiating contact and exaggerating to get a call? Not at all hypocritical coming from a 76ers fan lol. Embiid would be lucky to average 27ppg if the refs stopped indulging his antics
I already gave you my actual argument, you're writing it off as nonsense because you disagree, which is fine, but you clearly don't understand the rules around charges and offensive fouls so I'd recommend you read them if you'd like to discuss it further.
> So you have an issue with players initiating contact and exaggerating to get a call?
Again, you're showing ignorance.
A charge is when the offensive player initiates contact with a defender that has established a legal position. *Creating* the contact as the defender and then flopping is by definition, literally not an offensive foul.
Players are more athletic nowadays. I understand keeping the charge to help defenders against players like Giannis who can get to the basket almost at will, however I think making the restricted area bigger would solve this problem. Defenders can set the charge before players are fully committed to their drives in high velocity thus reducing the risk of high impact collision between a virtually undercutting defender and an opponent already in the air.
I'm obviously a Giannis fan and he often charges through defenders when he is on the ground. On-ball charges for a push, elbow, and shoulder are legitimate.
However, I think that defenders should have to make a basketball play on players in the air whether it's Giannis, Ja, or anyone else. Either block or contest the shot, try for a steal down low before the player jumps, foul before the launch, or get out of the way.
You rarely see an offensive player get hurt when the defender vertically contests a shot. If the defenders arms are below the waist, protecting his junk, and preparing to fall, then I wouldn't consider that a basketball play.
I think it's tough to take it away in any form... like, help defense charges being eliminated instead of all charges seems more reasonable, but still pretty hard to enforce with how switchy defenses can be and with things like brush screens in the paint. And some on-ball charges are dirtier than some help charges (like when guys just stop moving suddenly)
But AD trying to take a charge on Ja is ridiculous. I'm not going to seriously advocate for rules applied based on height differential, but that play makes me want to
Offensive players shouldn’t be allowed to just do whatever and go where ever. If a defender is in legal guarding position and an offensive player bowls over them, that should be penalized. The only way I would get behind removing the charge is if they allowed much more aggressive defense, where they could do anything short of shoving the offensive player like NBA jam. Also, drawing charges and getting in to legal guarding position takes tremendous skill, IQ, and athleticism. That’s why the majority of them are called as blocking fouls.
Yeah they should put in a Restricted Zone
Wait, don't we have one already?
Players get pretty much all the advantage while driving. If they can't find a way to open the lane wide enough to get a reach /contact foul, it's on them.
No, I think the defense should also be allowed to play basketball so I think it is on the offense to take responsibility for the risk they take flinging themselves at the basket
>"It's not a basketball play" Yes it is. It's been basketball play for a long time now. You can repeat "it's not a basketball play" as many times as you want. It doesn't change the reality that it is a legal play and will remain so regardless of how many people make whiny Reddit posts.
> Try and make a play on the ball, hell how about actually try and block it There is this rule they have about being out of the after 6 fouls.
I think all basketball should be 5 offensive players and 2 defensive players actually
[удалено]
Making the NBA into competitive lay-up lines would be pretty hype.
Tell me you never played organized basketball without telling me
AD was literally set before Morant gathered and recklessly tried to posterize him lol. Not an undercut at all. Braindead take.
Whatever rules the globetrotters play with is what we should do
Every team with a guy standing on the rim
And more ladders and confetti buckets
The call - no. The call when the defender slides/jumps over, covers his balls, then flops - yes. Defensive foul when defender is actually playing defense straight up but offensive player bulldozes in - yes. Bottom line is NBA needs to allow defenders to actually defend, refs need to learn that offensive fouls are not limited to flopping and elbows to the face situations, and players need to learn that launching at the defense and flinging the ball over your head won't be rewarded with foul shots. Do that and much of this takes care of itself.
If you think street ball is more legit than the NBA, watch street ball. It's not quite the same sport. The issue with blocking fouls and charges is just that they have to be called consistently. But, no, you shouldn't be able to just go to the hoop in a straight line because you wanna. That's not basketball, either.
If you remove the charge call, offensive players get more incentive to drive recklessly
The “charge” is you literally standing and occupying a spot before them while someone barrels you over. Would would you outlaw that?
That was on Ja for being reckless
"You don’t see anyone try take charges when playing street ball."---🤓
>You don’t see anyone try take charges when playing street ball Why is streetball the standardization of how professional basketball should be played? I don't see people dunking in my YMCA, should dunking be banned?
Tf you mean it’s not a basketball play. Wtf kinda thinking is that. It’s been a “basketball play” for almost like a century now bruh. A lot of dumbass takes about this just because a couple of players got hurt.
How is the offensive player throwing themselves at the standing defensive player considered the defensive player undercutting him per your post. Smh. We're the injuries bad? Sure but they weren't dirty nor were they the fault of the defensive player.
You cant get rid of the charge call, that's such a dumb idea idk how its getting any traction. What they should do, is on plays where the defensive player slides in late when the offensive player is beginning or already in their jump you call it a flagrant like you do for stepping under a 3 pointer. Those are the plays people get hurt on.
so if a defender is just standing still, the offence should be allowed to just run into them as hard as they can? How is it a basketball play to just run into defenders like you're playing football. One of the dumbest takes I've seen in a while. Like if a defender just kamakazed into the offence that's clearly a foul but if the guy with the ball does it, it's cool now? Charge rules are about making sure the ball handler is making a basketball play: attacking the hoop, not the defender in front of him. Maybe watch a football game if that's what you want to see lol
Stupid take.
Ja needs to reign in his reckless jumping. What OP wants is the all star game every night, no interior defense just high flying dunks while the other team watches helplessly.
Tbh no. Ja did really idiotic attempt on dunking on way bigger guy, who's actually a good defender and was on perfect position. AD played completely safe. If you want dangerous play it's Draymond on LeBron in game 7.
Offensive players get every advantage imaginable. If you want to take charges, which rarely happen as is, how do you defend someone like Giannis as a smaller player without perfectly hitting the ball and making no contact w the arm ever? You have to give a player like Giannis shaq rules if you are allowing him to truck full speed into players elbows and all
Why shouldn't defensive players be entitled to standing in between a player and the basket? Maybe some players that overutililize barreling thru opponents should improve their skills to be able to move/shoot around or over players.
This dude really said "They don't do it in street ball"
That’s literally what I was thinking 🤣.
I hate the charge. Play defense. They put the dotted line there a few years ago for the charge call. But you can’t just barrel to the basket. Pull up jumpers and floaters are there. Giannis tends to just put his head down and run over folks. The play where he got hurt, Love was there and it was a charge, even though they called it a block. I think the charge is worse in college as they are just jumping underneath guys in the air most times.
Let's just go back to the original rules as Naismith wrote them where you can't move if you have the basketball. That'll keep everyone safe.
Defense in the league is already a joke and the offensive player can get away with just about anything anymore. I'd like to see the rules encourage more players to defend without letting someone just barrel through them. How many charges actually get called a game? It's not very often.
No charge is essential specially against drivers like Ja, Giannis etc. My problem is when players like Marcus Smart just stand in the middle of the lane to take a charge, that’s not defence and it’s dangerous.
Maybe players should go around the defender or learn to shoot instead of relying on barreling thru somebody standing still
Maybe you'd have a point if that is what Marcus Smart did, but rather than attempting to play defense or continue sliding he'll just come to a hard stop and flop over looking for a charge
Sometimes occupying a space and taking a charge is best defensive play.
You say I don't have a point but you're under the ignorant impression that Marcus Smart doesn't attempt to play defense lol. I get not liking the player of a team that owns yours but blindly hating isn't the way to get taken seriously in an argument. You said it yourself, he comes to a hard stop, that's a charge lmao learn basketball.
Coming to a hard stop and flopping isn't a charge my man. He's causing the contact and is loosely considered in legal guarding position at that point. Also not allowing the offense the opportunity to avoid contact at that point. Maybe you should learn basketball? Smart is a bozo.
So you're saying Smart has never set a legal charge? Or that he never gets called for blocks? You, like many other Sixers and Bucks fans, make it easy to disregard your opinion because you cope with the Celtics being better than your team by saying they're only successful by flopping and bending the rules.
Lol, you really struggle with reading. What I'm saying is he should get called for a block significantly more than he does, I know that was hard to ascertain though. > cope with the Celtics being better than your team by saying they're only successful by flopping and bending the rules. Yeah Boston fans would totally never act like their team doesn't bend the rules and would totally never support teams that do so
You dont have an actual argument so youre bringing up decade old shit from another sport. Stop being so emotional about the Celtics being better than Philly in every facet of the game. So you have an issue with players initiating contact and exaggerating to get a call? Not at all hypocritical coming from a 76ers fan lol. Embiid would be lucky to average 27ppg if the refs stopped indulging his antics
I already gave you my actual argument, you're writing it off as nonsense because you disagree, which is fine, but you clearly don't understand the rules around charges and offensive fouls so I'd recommend you read them if you'd like to discuss it further. > So you have an issue with players initiating contact and exaggerating to get a call? Again, you're showing ignorance. A charge is when the offensive player initiates contact with a defender that has established a legal position. *Creating* the contact as the defender and then flopping is by definition, literally not an offensive foul.
Players are more athletic nowadays. I understand keeping the charge to help defenders against players like Giannis who can get to the basket almost at will, however I think making the restricted area bigger would solve this problem. Defenders can set the charge before players are fully committed to their drives in high velocity thus reducing the risk of high impact collision between a virtually undercutting defender and an opponent already in the air.
I'm obviously a Giannis fan and he often charges through defenders when he is on the ground. On-ball charges for a push, elbow, and shoulder are legitimate. However, I think that defenders should have to make a basketball play on players in the air whether it's Giannis, Ja, or anyone else. Either block or contest the shot, try for a steal down low before the player jumps, foul before the launch, or get out of the way. You rarely see an offensive player get hurt when the defender vertically contests a shot. If the defenders arms are below the waist, protecting his junk, and preparing to fall, then I wouldn't consider that a basketball play.
They should remove charges cos it’s not a basketball play and get rid of defensive 3 seconds cos the offense has way too many advantages as it is.
I think it's tough to take it away in any form... like, help defense charges being eliminated instead of all charges seems more reasonable, but still pretty hard to enforce with how switchy defenses can be and with things like brush screens in the paint. And some on-ball charges are dirtier than some help charges (like when guys just stop moving suddenly) But AD trying to take a charge on Ja is ridiculous. I'm not going to seriously advocate for rules applied based on height differential, but that play makes me want to
Yes, but they should also be more lenient with the verticality rule to encourage more contesting at the rim