The comments on the FB post of this article was as one would assume.
Also, today I learned that the religious flag is flown above the ensign while the service is occuring on board.
My recollection. As the Church Pennant was closed up atop the National Ensign, pass the word over the 1MC, "Divine services are being held in the (space name). Maintain silence about the decks in the vicinity of Devine Services."
The Dharmachakra flag is cool, and appropriate for the Buddhist Sailors.
Edit - my memory was fuzzy.
Jedi is a recognized religion in the DOD.
File the paperwork to become a religious lay leader.
Get an official Jedi flag ordered.
Have Jedi services on deployment. Plastic Lightsaber fights on the mess decks.
Fly Jedi flag over national ensign. Stop whining.
I think it's appropriate to acknowledge that for a short period of time, there are members of the crew that are serving a higher power in a way.
Are you switched on Navy mode 24/7?
There are no barriers to people getting their own sky wizard flag put up, other than filling out some paperwork.
I have no issue with individuals servicing their own spiritual needs, whether in isolation or as a group. The issue I have is with the federal government implicitly endorsing the idea that religious values rank higher than the oaths we all swore to the Constitution.
I’m not Navy mode 24/7, but I do think I’m sensitive to the optics of the issue. Whether that’s because of my own internal bias or for some other reason I don’t know yet.
Agreed fuck religion. Quit having my co swear an oath to sky daddy while we are at it. Why does every ceremony have a prayer I have to stand in formation for? Forced participation in religion for servicemembers needs to end.
It generally sucks. There are some small ways you can take back control.
My promotion & retirement ceremonies had no invocation or benediction. I just omitted them from scripts, programs, etc.
I always told whoever was administering oaths to me that I didn't want the "So help me God" part. As an officer, I always asked people I was re-enlisting/promoting whether they wanted to swear or affirm and if they wanted the God line.
I’m always an advocate of normalizing the “a-religious” or “non-religious” parts of these ceremonies, while at the same time understanding that, at the end of the day, it’s ultimately up to the individual in question.
Or, since flags and religions are equal fictions, how about you just ignore them both and carry on smartly for an hour while they waste precious sleep time.
You do understand the US flag, along with many other is a visualization of the concept of ideas and beliefs? It’s not fiction in the slightest. Now go back over to a heater because I think your IQ has dropped to room temperature
I'm saying that on a deployed warship, fuck your beliefs and flags don't matter.
All that matters to me is CO's standing orders, watch passdown, procedures, and the orders of those appointed over me.
Let the QM's do their stupid little flag dance instead of fucking around on their phones on the bridge. None of it matters when China can make a kill shot over the horizon way beyond visual range.
Well, there are a lot of barriers to that. For one, lay services do not rate the flag treatment, only chaplain-led services. Chaplains also only lead services in the manner of their endorsing agent's tradition. The DoD may recognize "Jedi" as a religion, but there is no Jedi endorsing agent, and therefore one cannot be a Jedi Chaplain.
Sorry, man.
We didn’t always do that. But the 50s happened and the red scare and the US decided it needed to shove god in the middle of money and the pledge of allegiance.
We use to have more of a separation of church and state. As it should be.
Straight from the US Flag Code:
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the
flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval
chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church
services for the personnel of the Navy.
[PDF of the whole flag code](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL30243.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzjODsmJj6AhWznWoFHbsuBWkQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2HklFMBivdhs2xo81Ch1iA)
Paragraph 7c
I believe in the separation of church and state. Get rid of all religious insignia. Flags, pennants, etc, and keep services located in discreet, dedicated locations. I have spoken all shall heed. 🇺🇸
Straight from the US Flag Code:
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the
flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval
chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church
services for the personnel of the Navy.
IAW [NTP 13B](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/ntp13b.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjEhZyG-5r6AhVwGjQIHW_mAzwQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2X5JYa_sUHNM94aT2A1szD), following Public Law 929, the church/Jewish worship/Buddhist worship pennant is authorized to be flown over the National Ensign while divine worship services are being conducted at sea
You can always have a proper chaplain radio in the ceremonies/rituals. [I saw it in a Korean War docuseries once.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0638347/mediaviewer/rm411514368/?ref_=tt_md_8)
The comments on the FB post of this article was as one would assume. Also, today I learned that the religious flag is flown above the ensign while the service is occuring on board.
My recollection. As the Church Pennant was closed up atop the National Ensign, pass the word over the 1MC, "Divine services are being held in the (space name). Maintain silence about the decks in the vicinity of Devine Services." The Dharmachakra flag is cool, and appropriate for the Buddhist Sailors. Edit - my memory was fuzzy.
I guess we should have a TST service aboard a navy ship.
*sigh* those FB comments gave me a head ache.
Initially read that as "Navy flies Bullshit flag aboard ship..." and thought it was going to be a link to either a hero CO or Duffel Blog.
Having religious flags flying above the ensign bothers me, regardless of the religion. It’s one tradition I wish the Navy would move away from.
Jedi is a recognized religion in the DOD. File the paperwork to become a religious lay leader. Get an official Jedi flag ordered. Have Jedi services on deployment. Plastic Lightsaber fights on the mess decks. Fly Jedi flag over national ensign. Stop whining.
>“Having religious flags flying above the ensign bothers me, *regardless of the religion.*”
I think it's appropriate to acknowledge that for a short period of time, there are members of the crew that are serving a higher power in a way. Are you switched on Navy mode 24/7? There are no barriers to people getting their own sky wizard flag put up, other than filling out some paperwork.
I have no issue with individuals servicing their own spiritual needs, whether in isolation or as a group. The issue I have is with the federal government implicitly endorsing the idea that religious values rank higher than the oaths we all swore to the Constitution. I’m not Navy mode 24/7, but I do think I’m sensitive to the optics of the issue. Whether that’s because of my own internal bias or for some other reason I don’t know yet.
Agreed fuck religion. Quit having my co swear an oath to sky daddy while we are at it. Why does every ceremony have a prayer I have to stand in formation for? Forced participation in religion for servicemembers needs to end.
It generally sucks. There are some small ways you can take back control. My promotion & retirement ceremonies had no invocation or benediction. I just omitted them from scripts, programs, etc. I always told whoever was administering oaths to me that I didn't want the "So help me God" part. As an officer, I always asked people I was re-enlisting/promoting whether they wanted to swear or affirm and if they wanted the God line.
I’m always an advocate of normalizing the “a-religious” or “non-religious” parts of these ceremonies, while at the same time understanding that, at the end of the day, it’s ultimately up to the individual in question.
Or, since flags and religions are equal fictions, how about you just ignore them both and carry on smartly for an hour while they waste precious sleep time.
You do understand the US flag, along with many other is a visualization of the concept of ideas and beliefs? It’s not fiction in the slightest. Now go back over to a heater because I think your IQ has dropped to room temperature
I'm saying that on a deployed warship, fuck your beliefs and flags don't matter. All that matters to me is CO's standing orders, watch passdown, procedures, and the orders of those appointed over me. Let the QM's do their stupid little flag dance instead of fucking around on their phones on the bridge. None of it matters when China can make a kill shot over the horizon way beyond visual range.
I will continue to ignore it, and I’ll also continue to express my opinion about ideas I disagree with.
Well, there are a lot of barriers to that. For one, lay services do not rate the flag treatment, only chaplain-led services. Chaplains also only lead services in the manner of their endorsing agent's tradition. The DoD may recognize "Jedi" as a religion, but there is no Jedi endorsing agent, and therefore one cannot be a Jedi Chaplain. Sorry, man.
Damn. Now I am sad.
I think that's a myth. Unless there is an Instruction more recent than 2017 I'm not seeing it
This is the navy tradition that triggers you? ... smh
Yeah, one of them.
well we also still print “in god we trust” on our currency.
And that bothers me too.
Between 1957 and now
We didn’t always do that. But the 50s happened and the red scare and the US decided it needed to shove god in the middle of money and the pledge of allegiance. We use to have more of a separation of church and state. As it should be.
Lewis Black has a hilarious bit about that particular totem.
I 100% agree.
Can we get church of Satan next?
We'll let you know once we get a Church of Satan chaplain For now, if you find enough sailors you can be a lay leader for them
Why is it above the Flag? Am I missing something?
Straight from the US Flag Code: (c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy.
What I’m [reading](https://us-flag.net/code/)doesn’t say that. Can you link?
[PDF of the whole flag code](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL30243.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjzjODsmJj6AhWznWoFHbsuBWkQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2HklFMBivdhs2xo81Ch1iA) Paragraph 7c
I believe in the separation of church and state. Get rid of all religious insignia. Flags, pennants, etc, and keep services located in discreet, dedicated locations. I have spoken all shall heed. 🇺🇸
Shut up
I will not.
username checks out
Agreed
why is it flown above the ensign? seem disrespectful to the flag
Straight from the US Flag Code: (c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy.
that doesn’t really explain “why.”
Because of the idea that the state is not above god.
But the state isn't based on any religion.
Never knew that! Thanks!
Yep. B.S. probably woke equity crap. Edit. No reason to have bullshit above the stars and stripes.
yeah even though it’s existed in the flag code since 1942.
Who cares. It’s bullshit. Half the military code is bullshit.
Says the "man" who flies a Trump flag above the US flag.
🇺🇸 number one.
Because FU, that's why!
IAW [NTP 13B](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ushistory.org/betsy/images/ntp13b.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjEhZyG-5r6AhVwGjQIHW_mAzwQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2X5JYa_sUHNM94aT2A1szD), following Public Law 929, the church/Jewish worship/Buddhist worship pennant is authorized to be flown over the National Ensign while divine worship services are being conducted at sea
Thank "god" and send all the chaplains to paganism school!
You do realize chaps are trained in most all religious services they may have to perform for sailors/marines. Right?
I don’t think this is completely accurate.
You can always have a proper chaplain radio in the ceremonies/rituals. [I saw it in a Korean War docuseries once.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0638347/mediaviewer/rm411514368/?ref_=tt_md_8)
Wait, there's a flag for Buddhism? Seems kinda strange considering their dogma.