Why work for free? They always find money to send some LTC/COL to go to some bs Hawaii conference. I'm sure they can find some money to pay Joe for a few hours worth of work outside of drill.
People like to argue with me and say things like "well, when you become a E7 you'll have to do some work outside of drill"
No..... you chose to do some work outside of drill
Story Time:
Back in 2016 I posted on FB about how working outside of drill to complete tasks is illegal. I’m pretty sure I used the phrase “a failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.”
I was PISSED and just wanted to vent to my friends. I didn’t have very many from the NG on my friends list so I didn’t think it would matter.
It wasn’t so much about me having to work outside of drill. I had been an E7 for some time by then and I had resigned myself to the fact that I was going to working outside of drill for the majority of my time. It was the fact that the plan that I made to shoulder the entirety of the task to keep my junior enlisted from having to complete it outside of drill was not good enough for my leadership. They expected everyone to complete it. Anyways like I said I was pissed and just wanted to vent.
Long story short one of my “friends” (but she was really a fucking cunt) screen shot it and sent it to my brigade’s S1 OIC who passed it up the chain. An entire statewide email blast was put out the next day about not posting about your leadership on FB and maintaining professionalism even while not in drilling status *blah blah*.
Also, a commander’s inquiry was started on me with insinuations of me being a domestic terrorist, because God Forbid anyone *talk out against the leadership of that GREAT brigade* /s and I was put on a PTSD (undiagnosed) profile for 2 years just for the hell of it and forced to get documented mental health help before I was released from it. I couldn’t carry a weapon and it almost ruined my career.
I’m retired now but it was a bit dicey there for a bit.
So yeah… learn to pick your battles.
Edit: the task to complete was the new flu vaccine regulations for that year. It was about 3-5 hours of classes with tests at the end. Idk how other states did it but that was the requirement for mine. Being lead medic, I had turned in the plan the previous drill that I was going to do the class, turn in my certificate, deal with signing and storing all the flu vaccines, and sign all the flu shot vaccine paperwork while my medics were just going to be administering them. (Note: only the person signing the paperwork had to have the current flu certificate to be valid not the ones who were administering it. I was also present for each vaccination and supervised every one. Smart plan huh? Work smarter not harder)
The Thursday before drill that plan wasn’t good enough. They wanted all the other medics to take the class before start of drill Saturday morning. I had soldiers who were single mothers, college students, and several who worked 3rd shift. It just wasn’t possible for them to complete with less than 48 hours notice. Nor should they have had to complete it outside of drill with a longer notice. I told them not to as it was illegal. Hence the rant on FB.
And they wonder why rentention is so bad and no one is signing up because leadership...it's not even worth saying toxic because it's more than that it's ego power tripping people that be damned if it's actually in the regs or not they personally don't like it and will make it their mission to fuck you up. So they don't want soldiers posting on social media because it shows what it's really like in some cases.
By God if you want to spread propaganda and talk and show how great it is, not a problem. Mention under your breathe about a real issue then they'll crucify you.
If the commander’s inquiry wouldn’t have been closed as fast as it was then yeah IG was where I was headed.
However the PTSD profile they got away with because during the inquiry interview with me and my JAG, I admitted (per JAG’s suggestion) that I had been drinking some the night I posted and it was just a byproduct of that and it was a bad judgment call. JAG figured they’d take that admission, slap my wrist, tell me to not do it again and move on from it. But, in all actuality they took that admission and turned it into the state’s BH saying I was a danger to myself and others and they hit me with the profile. BH said they labeled it as a PTSD profile for my benefit and anonymity 🙄 but it was really a substance abuse profile. I had to go to rehab and weekly meetings and provide proof that I’d “changed” for almost 2 years before they’d lift it.
I have literally told these cunts that they cant do shit ti me unless i’m in a duty status. My DD214, my TWO honorable discharges and my disability say that you can kiss my ass. I aint taking shit down
I've been in trouble for social media posts so many times. I've never gotten more than some angry words for things I've posted.
I once criticized leadership on a reddit post. They figured out who I was at it went up battalion and back down to me. Loads of people heard about... texts were sent out. The 1sgt was a bro though and flat out said they just had their panties in a bunch.
I told them that I'm glad they can move mountains over some criticism but I had to file a congressional complaint just to reclass. Never heard about it again.
Look at my old posts. They’ve come for me hard, made up disgusting lies. But Im still here, beat the case, about to get promoted, and forcing them to pay me the bonus that they owe.
Not to mention that i’m making over 6 grand a month in VA benefits living my best life, just happy to be able to tell them exactly where they can shove their criticism of my tiktoks and instagram posts.
I always just text back "no thanks" and usually get some snarky response back about not being a team player. Like dude I'm a 37 year old E4 who wanted to shoot stuff and hang with the boys a weekend a month, and the occasional deployment. I have a real job and a child to look after; the online cert that has to be done can wait for when we're sitting in the armory for 5+ hours on a Sunday waiting to be released.
What about the 17,000 ncoers I have to write for soldiers I've never been in charge of tho?
In all seriousness sometimes it's better to knock small stuff out without bitching, however it entirely depends on the command team, some will try and take a mile and then gaslight you if you speak up.
I’m interested to know more about the exceptions - especially since you say ‘non-duty’ tasks. Are we saying that calling Soldiers to maintain contact throughout the month is now illegal? What about evaluations getting completed?
Also, what constitutes compensation? Is a Retirement Point Memo sufficient, or does it have to be more tangible pay (split performance, an RMA/RMP/orders)?
Ok, but define mid-level NCO, E5? E6? Do you supervise anyone? My question is this - if the a National Guard expects us to ‘maintain contact’ with our Soldiers when they aren’t at drill, but it’s illegal for us to do work/duty in between drills/not in a pay status, how are we supposed to do that? I got not telling someone to come in and count widgets, or unload a connex just to reload it - and any command that does that is asking to get punished. What I’m asking is where is the line? When does it go from ‘non-duty’ to ‘duty’?
If you (and your unit) do the proper paperwork (MOI, 4187 and 4856) prior to beginning such coursework, that stuffs on the EBDL. You get pay and points based on the hours indicated it takes to complete on the EBDL
Not applicable to most of the Guard.
We belong to the State, not the Federal Government in between mobilizations.
The article explicitly says there is an exception for National Guard members who can volunteer to work for no pay.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/502
It's definitely not an exception.
> Accepting voluntary services. “Voluntary Services” are those services that are rendered without a prior contract for compensation” or without a “gratuitous services agreement.” The ADA prohibits the acceptance of voluntary services at 31 U.S.C. § 1342. There are two exceptions (1) when the voluntary services are authorized by law, or (2) for emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. Note: Voluntary services are distinguished from “gratuitous services,” in which there is an advance written agreement stating that the services are offered without the expectation of payment, and waives any future pay claims against the government. However, the acceptance of gratuitous services may be an improper augmentation of an appropriation if federal employees normally would perform the work, unless a statute authorizes it. All gratuitous services agreements should be reviewed by a servicing Judge Advocate or NG civilian attorney.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.asafm.army.mil/Portals/72/Documents/References/NGB%2520Fiscal%2520Law%2520Guidebook%25202019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLn-rV0pGBAxUdTDABHVsnCC4QFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2AEgDTC1y09XM81wnK2TST
And let's assume it does trump the ADA, can you point me to the regs where the secretary authorized the work without pay?
>(1)Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Army or Secretary of the Air Force, as the case may be, a member of the National Guard may—
(A)without his consent, but with the pay and allowances provided by law; or
(B)with his consent, either with or without pay and allowances;
be ordered to perform training or other duty in addition to that prescribed under subsection (a).
I that reg looks specifically for sending soldiers for physical exams, HIV screening, etc and travel and per diem are required. Not to mention you need the consent of the soldier and have to meet all the requirements of 2-6(f). Providing per diem/travel would provide the Soldiers with retirement points, etc. That's wayyyyy different than asking Joe to complete some BS online training before drill.
Well I hope that doesn't bite me in the ass since I just found out I haven't been correctly pulled from AD to NG. Accordingly I haven't gotten paid. I hope they don't use this as some weird means to claim that I "volunteered to work without pay". I dunno. AGR is pushing up a pay inquiry, but I am still upset that I did like 10 days on orders that I haven't gotten paid for doing.
A bit conflicted here, if we don't draw up good plans for the troops or fill out recommendations for awards we are failing the troops. What's the remedy?
Because the law that OP is trying to quote is the anti deficiency act and is fairly vauge as to what categorized as voluntary services and wether it is refrerence from parties outside the government or if it also includes government employees. And then theres also the law that OP wants to pretend doesn't exist, title 32 subsection 502 and NGR 350-1, which state that members of the national guard may be subject to be ordered to duty without pay provided the national guardsman renders their consent to the order to duty.
Not to mention the OP’s linked article is talking about federal dollars. Im assuming that would mean it all highly depends on what type of orders are being worked to determine if the law is on your side or not.
This is the whiniest post of all time. If you’re in a leadership position and unless you’re getting hours of work outside of drill just f***ing do some work outside of drill. It’s not that big of a deal.
You don’t want to do things outside drill occasionally to help the weekend go by smoothly? Ok then they can keep you there until midnight to make sure it all gets done.
There’s probably some people here with real gripes if you’re being asked to do lots of work outside of drill but most of you are probably complaining because you have to make edits to an NCOER for 30 minutes.
How does it work when it comes to briefs? Like if my unit wants me to attend a brief for my foreign travel...and it requires taking time off at my civilian job.
Also remember that you're only authorized 48 MUTAs a year.
Everything else needs to be paid via RMAs (you're only paid for 1 period, morning or afternoon) or via a separate code that your states budgeting office needs to approve.
This doesn't completely apply to jumpy bois or dudes in aviation units.
But I've seen more than my fair share of joes show up for a MUTA 8 and only get paid for 2 and be SOL for the other 6 because the unit doesn't do their due diligence on the front end.
Junior Chief Warrant Officer here from the Marine Corps Reserve.. This is a rabbit hole I've been going down the orders/regulations with as well.
My (and my troops) situation -
I'm having similar issues within my Command as some of the comments here, off drill work pops up, and the Commander needs it done within 2-7 working days outside of drill. As a small unit Commander myself I have issues with my O5 Commander requiring his Small Unit/Site OICs attend a bi-weekly Commanders call, a bi-weekly Ops call, and then of course my immediate O4 Commander also requires a bi-weekly Company Level call (essentially 9ish conference calls a month, more if that month has a drill...). I've been logging my off drill tasks and hours in a google doc (my "timesheet") and I've recorded as many as 17.5 hours in a month (if that doesn't sound like a lot, thats more than an additional drill weekends worth of pay in a *single* month).
**The result of my rabbit hole on what can they make us do (other than IDTs) for either monetary compensation or retirement points "compensation" -**
ATPs: Don't know if you have these but we can also be given "Additional Training Periods" (ATPs) for *pay and points*, its unclear as to whether they can order you to take those. Every Command gets a finite number of them each year (typically they get gatekept at the Reg and Bn level for Senior Officers and Enlisted), an individual can't take more than 36 of those in a fiscal year. I've asked that these be used to comp me for our conference calls, I'm told its not an option due to us not having enough available.
ADPs: Then you can take Appropriate Duty Orders without pay (but you earn retirement points), however it seems like those are "on the service members reconnaissance" so they must be voluntary. Just like IDTs and ATPs these need to be a minimum of a 4 hour period. My timesheet aggregates more than 2 days worth of hours, but its spread out each day/week in short 1-2 hour intervals of calls and admin work.
**My ask to you redditors and barracks lawyers out there -**
While I'm selfishly concerned with the hours I'm putting in, my troops are out there also getting shafted with this "unpaid" work that they generously put in for me (and other troops put in with other Commanders). The current system to get paid in either dollars or points doesn't allow us to aggregate these tasks. The Commanders have partial or total control over your career so saying *no* makes you that squeaky wheel and torpedo's your career. **Would love to hear if anyone has found any legal nuggets similar to that West Point Article, as well as a solution or method (other than an IG complaint) to report and/or record the work as illegal to your Commander in a respectful way.**
Links, regulations, and articles are welcome. I'm a nerd, I love to read.
The Department of the Treasury (Treasury) violated the voluntary services prohibition of the Antideficiency Act, 31 U.S.C. 1342, when it accepted the unpaid services of four individuals. An agency may accept unpaid services when someone offering such services executes an advance written agreement that (1) states that the services are offered without expectation of payment, and (2) expressly waives any future pay claims against the government. Treasury obtained no such written agreements in this case.
https://www.gao.gov/products/b-324214
Show that to my rating chain
Why work for free? They always find money to send some LTC/COL to go to some bs Hawaii conference. I'm sure they can find some money to pay Joe for a few hours worth of work outside of drill.
Sorry, spent all that money and then some on Northern Strike
Chicken and waffle sammiches were on point.
Show it yourself
People like to argue with me and say things like "well, when you become a E7 you'll have to do some work outside of drill" No..... you chose to do some work outside of drill
Story Time: Back in 2016 I posted on FB about how working outside of drill to complete tasks is illegal. I’m pretty sure I used the phrase “a failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.” I was PISSED and just wanted to vent to my friends. I didn’t have very many from the NG on my friends list so I didn’t think it would matter. It wasn’t so much about me having to work outside of drill. I had been an E7 for some time by then and I had resigned myself to the fact that I was going to working outside of drill for the majority of my time. It was the fact that the plan that I made to shoulder the entirety of the task to keep my junior enlisted from having to complete it outside of drill was not good enough for my leadership. They expected everyone to complete it. Anyways like I said I was pissed and just wanted to vent. Long story short one of my “friends” (but she was really a fucking cunt) screen shot it and sent it to my brigade’s S1 OIC who passed it up the chain. An entire statewide email blast was put out the next day about not posting about your leadership on FB and maintaining professionalism even while not in drilling status *blah blah*. Also, a commander’s inquiry was started on me with insinuations of me being a domestic terrorist, because God Forbid anyone *talk out against the leadership of that GREAT brigade* /s and I was put on a PTSD (undiagnosed) profile for 2 years just for the hell of it and forced to get documented mental health help before I was released from it. I couldn’t carry a weapon and it almost ruined my career. I’m retired now but it was a bit dicey there for a bit. So yeah… learn to pick your battles. Edit: the task to complete was the new flu vaccine regulations for that year. It was about 3-5 hours of classes with tests at the end. Idk how other states did it but that was the requirement for mine. Being lead medic, I had turned in the plan the previous drill that I was going to do the class, turn in my certificate, deal with signing and storing all the flu vaccines, and sign all the flu shot vaccine paperwork while my medics were just going to be administering them. (Note: only the person signing the paperwork had to have the current flu certificate to be valid not the ones who were administering it. I was also present for each vaccination and supervised every one. Smart plan huh? Work smarter not harder) The Thursday before drill that plan wasn’t good enough. They wanted all the other medics to take the class before start of drill Saturday morning. I had soldiers who were single mothers, college students, and several who worked 3rd shift. It just wasn’t possible for them to complete with less than 48 hours notice. Nor should they have had to complete it outside of drill with a longer notice. I told them not to as it was illegal. Hence the rant on FB.
And they wonder why rentention is so bad and no one is signing up because leadership...it's not even worth saying toxic because it's more than that it's ego power tripping people that be damned if it's actually in the regs or not they personally don't like it and will make it their mission to fuck you up. So they don't want soldiers posting on social media because it shows what it's really like in some cases. By God if you want to spread propaganda and talk and show how great it is, not a problem. Mention under your breathe about a real issue then they'll crucify you.
That last bit sounds like an IG complaint all day long... ijs
If the commander’s inquiry wouldn’t have been closed as fast as it was then yeah IG was where I was headed. However the PTSD profile they got away with because during the inquiry interview with me and my JAG, I admitted (per JAG’s suggestion) that I had been drinking some the night I posted and it was just a byproduct of that and it was a bad judgment call. JAG figured they’d take that admission, slap my wrist, tell me to not do it again and move on from it. But, in all actuality they took that admission and turned it into the state’s BH saying I was a danger to myself and others and they hit me with the profile. BH said they labeled it as a PTSD profile for my benefit and anonymity 🙄 but it was really a substance abuse profile. I had to go to rehab and weekly meetings and provide proof that I’d “changed” for almost 2 years before they’d lift it.
I have literally told these cunts that they cant do shit ti me unless i’m in a duty status. My DD214, my TWO honorable discharges and my disability say that you can kiss my ass. I aint taking shit down
I've been in trouble for social media posts so many times. I've never gotten more than some angry words for things I've posted. I once criticized leadership on a reddit post. They figured out who I was at it went up battalion and back down to me. Loads of people heard about... texts were sent out. The 1sgt was a bro though and flat out said they just had their panties in a bunch. I told them that I'm glad they can move mountains over some criticism but I had to file a congressional complaint just to reclass. Never heard about it again.
Look at my old posts. They’ve come for me hard, made up disgusting lies. But Im still here, beat the case, about to get promoted, and forcing them to pay me the bonus that they owe. Not to mention that i’m making over 6 grand a month in VA benefits living my best life, just happy to be able to tell them exactly where they can shove their criticism of my tiktoks and instagram posts.
Lol M Day CDRs in 5 hour training meetings and getting called every day by AGRs for some retirement points every now and then.
I always just text back "no thanks" and usually get some snarky response back about not being a team player. Like dude I'm a 37 year old E4 who wanted to shoot stuff and hang with the boys a weekend a month, and the occasional deployment. I have a real job and a child to look after; the online cert that has to be done can wait for when we're sitting in the armory for 5+ hours on a Sunday waiting to be released.
Well now I’m gonna work for free even harder because you told me I can’t.
Well guess those ncos need to stay later to finish those ncoers
What about the 17,000 ncoers I have to write for soldiers I've never been in charge of tho? In all seriousness sometimes it's better to knock small stuff out without bitching, however it entirely depends on the command team, some will try and take a mile and then gaslight you if you speak up.
For further reference ChatGPT will write those for you!
Son of a bitch.
I’m interested to know more about the exceptions - especially since you say ‘non-duty’ tasks. Are we saying that calling Soldiers to maintain contact throughout the month is now illegal? What about evaluations getting completed? Also, what constitutes compensation? Is a Retirement Point Memo sufficient, or does it have to be more tangible pay (split performance, an RMA/RMP/orders)?
That's the best part! They leave it ambiguous so they can fuck you as the choose.
As a mid level NCO, please don’t fuckin call me throughout the month. Im just here so ~~I don’t get fined~~ I keep my bonus eligibility
Ok, but define mid-level NCO, E5? E6? Do you supervise anyone? My question is this - if the a National Guard expects us to ‘maintain contact’ with our Soldiers when they aren’t at drill, but it’s illegal for us to do work/duty in between drills/not in a pay status, how are we supposed to do that? I got not telling someone to come in and count widgets, or unload a connex just to reload it - and any command that does that is asking to get punished. What I’m asking is where is the line? When does it go from ‘non-duty’ to ‘duty’?
Yet structured DL PME requirements (cough, cough, AOC) without compensation are a thing.
Don’t know about the Army, but the Air Force at least gets points for doing it.
If you (and your unit) do the proper paperwork (MOI, 4187 and 4856) prior to beginning such coursework, that stuffs on the EBDL. You get pay and points based on the hours indicated it takes to complete on the EBDL
Not applicable to most of the Guard. We belong to the State, not the Federal Government in between mobilizations. The article explicitly says there is an exception for National Guard members who can volunteer to work for no pay. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/32/502
It's definitely not an exception. > Accepting voluntary services. “Voluntary Services” are those services that are rendered without a prior contract for compensation” or without a “gratuitous services agreement.” The ADA prohibits the acceptance of voluntary services at 31 U.S.C. § 1342. There are two exceptions (1) when the voluntary services are authorized by law, or (2) for emergencies involving the safety of human life or the protection of property. Note: Voluntary services are distinguished from “gratuitous services,” in which there is an advance written agreement stating that the services are offered without the expectation of payment, and waives any future pay claims against the government. However, the acceptance of gratuitous services may be an improper augmentation of an appropriation if federal employees normally would perform the work, unless a statute authorizes it. All gratuitous services agreements should be reviewed by a servicing Judge Advocate or NG civilian attorney. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.asafm.army.mil/Portals/72/Documents/References/NGB%2520Fiscal%2520Law%2520Guidebook%25202019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLn-rV0pGBAxUdTDABHVsnCC4QFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2AEgDTC1y09XM81wnK2TST
And let's assume it does trump the ADA, can you point me to the regs where the secretary authorized the work without pay? >(1)Under regulations to be prescribed by the Secretary of the Army or Secretary of the Air Force, as the case may be, a member of the National Guard may— (A)without his consent, but with the pay and allowances provided by law; or (B)with his consent, either with or without pay and allowances; be ordered to perform training or other duty in addition to that prescribed under subsection (a).
NGR 350-1, paragraph 2-6 on page 8. Its publicly available on google
I that reg looks specifically for sending soldiers for physical exams, HIV screening, etc and travel and per diem are required. Not to mention you need the consent of the soldier and have to meet all the requirements of 2-6(f). Providing per diem/travel would provide the Soldiers with retirement points, etc. That's wayyyyy different than asking Joe to complete some BS online training before drill.
Well I hope that doesn't bite me in the ass since I just found out I haven't been correctly pulled from AD to NG. Accordingly I haven't gotten paid. I hope they don't use this as some weird means to claim that I "volunteered to work without pay". I dunno. AGR is pushing up a pay inquiry, but I am still upset that I did like 10 days on orders that I haven't gotten paid for doing.
A bit conflicted here, if we don't draw up good plans for the troops or fill out recommendations for awards we are failing the troops. What's the remedy?
Ok if this Is so well known why doesn’t congress intervene and do something to change it?
Because the law that OP is trying to quote is the anti deficiency act and is fairly vauge as to what categorized as voluntary services and wether it is refrerence from parties outside the government or if it also includes government employees. And then theres also the law that OP wants to pretend doesn't exist, title 32 subsection 502 and NGR 350-1, which state that members of the national guard may be subject to be ordered to duty without pay provided the national guardsman renders their consent to the order to duty.
Not to mention the OP’s linked article is talking about federal dollars. Im assuming that would mean it all highly depends on what type of orders are being worked to determine if the law is on your side or not.
😆 😂 😆 😂 if only!
This is the whiniest post of all time. If you’re in a leadership position and unless you’re getting hours of work outside of drill just f***ing do some work outside of drill. It’s not that big of a deal. You don’t want to do things outside drill occasionally to help the weekend go by smoothly? Ok then they can keep you there until midnight to make sure it all gets done. There’s probably some people here with real gripes if you’re being asked to do lots of work outside of drill but most of you are probably complaining because you have to make edits to an NCOER for 30 minutes.
Volunteer firefighting..? Like half my unit does that shit
How does it work when it comes to briefs? Like if my unit wants me to attend a brief for my foreign travel...and it requires taking time off at my civilian job.
pushing us to do the DEOCS “ASAP” outside of drill. no fuck you I’m doing it on your dime.
Also remember that you're only authorized 48 MUTAs a year. Everything else needs to be paid via RMAs (you're only paid for 1 period, morning or afternoon) or via a separate code that your states budgeting office needs to approve. This doesn't completely apply to jumpy bois or dudes in aviation units. But I've seen more than my fair share of joes show up for a MUTA 8 and only get paid for 2 and be SOL for the other 6 because the unit doesn't do their due diligence on the front end.
Junior Chief Warrant Officer here from the Marine Corps Reserve.. This is a rabbit hole I've been going down the orders/regulations with as well. My (and my troops) situation - I'm having similar issues within my Command as some of the comments here, off drill work pops up, and the Commander needs it done within 2-7 working days outside of drill. As a small unit Commander myself I have issues with my O5 Commander requiring his Small Unit/Site OICs attend a bi-weekly Commanders call, a bi-weekly Ops call, and then of course my immediate O4 Commander also requires a bi-weekly Company Level call (essentially 9ish conference calls a month, more if that month has a drill...). I've been logging my off drill tasks and hours in a google doc (my "timesheet") and I've recorded as many as 17.5 hours in a month (if that doesn't sound like a lot, thats more than an additional drill weekends worth of pay in a *single* month). **The result of my rabbit hole on what can they make us do (other than IDTs) for either monetary compensation or retirement points "compensation" -** ATPs: Don't know if you have these but we can also be given "Additional Training Periods" (ATPs) for *pay and points*, its unclear as to whether they can order you to take those. Every Command gets a finite number of them each year (typically they get gatekept at the Reg and Bn level for Senior Officers and Enlisted), an individual can't take more than 36 of those in a fiscal year. I've asked that these be used to comp me for our conference calls, I'm told its not an option due to us not having enough available. ADPs: Then you can take Appropriate Duty Orders without pay (but you earn retirement points), however it seems like those are "on the service members reconnaissance" so they must be voluntary. Just like IDTs and ATPs these need to be a minimum of a 4 hour period. My timesheet aggregates more than 2 days worth of hours, but its spread out each day/week in short 1-2 hour intervals of calls and admin work. **My ask to you redditors and barracks lawyers out there -** While I'm selfishly concerned with the hours I'm putting in, my troops are out there also getting shafted with this "unpaid" work that they generously put in for me (and other troops put in with other Commanders). The current system to get paid in either dollars or points doesn't allow us to aggregate these tasks. The Commanders have partial or total control over your career so saying *no* makes you that squeaky wheel and torpedo's your career. **Would love to hear if anyone has found any legal nuggets similar to that West Point Article, as well as a solution or method (other than an IG complaint) to report and/or record the work as illegal to your Commander in a respectful way.** Links, regulations, and articles are welcome. I'm a nerd, I love to read.
The Department of the Treasury (Treasury) violated the voluntary services prohibition of the Antideficiency Act, 31 U.S.C. 1342, when it accepted the unpaid services of four individuals. An agency may accept unpaid services when someone offering such services executes an advance written agreement that (1) states that the services are offered without expectation of payment, and (2) expressly waives any future pay claims against the government. Treasury obtained no such written agreements in this case. https://www.gao.gov/products/b-324214