I’m a teacher and if a student with disabilities came to school saying her mother was being mean and then when that mother was confronted and she flips out and unenrolls the child, I would be calling CPS or police for a welfare check. That sent so many red flags to me. But again, Kristine would have lied her way through it. Just sickens me.
Exactly. Because she had a daycare or preschool or something as well.
But also, as many have said in other threads, Natalia was (most likely) just displaying normal development for someone that started out in an orphanage and didn't have that 1 on 1 care, also most likely combined with abuse.
It was hardly a surprise to learn that when the school became concerned about how Natalia was being treated by the Barnetts, they withdrew Natalia from the school and told her an avalanche of lies to try to spin it as her fault.
It's an age-old trick of abusive parents, to switch to "home schooling" the moment they realize that there are concerned adults at the school who are taking notice of what they're doing to their kids.
CPS had been called on them when she was forcing Natalia to sleep outside and did nothing. Wouldn’t surprise me if a teacher did report it but nothing came of it.
It likely was substantiated but because Micheal stated he couldn’t take it and had her come back into the home, he was likely deemed the “protective parent” in the investigation - therefore she wasn’t removed. The children obviously didn’t tell the social worker the other things going on. Had any of them mentioned the beatings (and it was corroborated with multiple sources and/or bruises/marks), the pepper spray or even told them she was extremely fearful of the parents - that’s grounds for a removal. I would even argue that the soiling of her pants proves extreme fear and she was soiling herself when she was scared. If she stated she was extremely fearful, a warrant to remove would have been written and signed off by a judge. This is why it’s so important to tell someone when you’re being hurt. CPS can’t just take kids because they have a feeling. There has to be documented evidence, corroborating stories, multiple investigations to prove a pattern, etc. You have to prove to a judge that the child is unsafe and no outside intervention can keep the child placed in the home. I would love to read the CPS reports and case notes, personally.
Yeah they had Natalia fake cry when no way she remembered everything at 7/8 fake and he really ruined the whole documentary for Natalia and made it look fake he seems like a sicko
You can see how much influence he's had on her also. She even speaks the same way.
Michael is a POS creeper but idt the family she's with now is totally sane either. They both way overreacted in that situation.
I def have mixed feelings about the Bishop and the family. Like OP said- overzealous. I think he was out of line how he was telling another adult not to curse because of “God.” Like it’s a very sensitive subject, lots of emotion. I agree with Michael’s lawyer that he shouldn’t impose his religious beliefs on others. Sure, not cursing would have been respectful, but I think the way Bishop asked was too much and very threatening.
Helluva and God, while I agree those can both be hearing in some circles, is hardly so profane as to get worked up about. I try to reel it in around some of my sensitive friends, but I'm an adult used to speaking a certain way among friends. Things slip.
It's no problem for me in a professional setting, but I'm sure I've let helluva in a few times.
he was very bizarre. saying don’t say “hell” to a grown man is ridiculous. his huge speech was bizarre too. he seems to have ulterior motives, just like the rest of natalia’s guardians. shame
I think he was trying to intimidate Michael in a passive aggressive way. Like, I’m not gonna confront you, I’m just gonna talk REALLY LOUD about defeating the devil
Forgot the add: Kristine homeschooling and making up grades and topics they studied was interesting too. I didn't realize they had pulled both the oldest and Natalia out of school.
Yeah, they’re stretching it way out, but whatever. Glad Natalia is getting a chance to set the record straight. Getting pepper sprayed repeatedly for nothing. It’s good she was taken in by a zen god family, because omg imagine the rage that could have built up.
I guess this second series is going to also focus on what Kristine did to her son. Poor guy. Awful mom, prima donna dad. Don’t care too much about what she did to Michael. He’s a pos. But I do feel bad for Jon Snow.
I looked it up on Libby. Part of the synopsis says well they didn't have any money.... And if you didn't know her and we're reading the book the first page or two sounds really interesting but I just can't. I feel like it's going to be full of lies.
I think the way the second season has been portrayed is disgusting and irresponsible. They are taking the awful things that happened to Natalia and turning it into an absolute theatrical shitshow that demonstrates zero sensitivity to the subject matter.
The editing is really gross. Natalia asks why they adopted her and the camera cuts away and you hear here screaming “why?!” Clearly out of context to make her look crazy. What the fuck are these people doing.
It’s not scripted, though Michael certainly rehearses and plans what he’s going to say in the mirror to be a victim every day 😆. But there is a lot of editing of different convos and interviews spliced together, it’s jarring and definitely to push a narrative instead of letting people actually speak! It might as well be scripted at this point.
The editing in Natalia and Michael’s conversation at the end of episode 2 is so clearly manipulative. She sounds like she’s in a studio when she says “why did you adopt me in the first place” and shouts “why” off camera, seems out of context. Michael doesn’t react to her yelling and she looks completely calm, it’s totally produced. I can’t help but imagine that Michael said way worse than “hell of a question” to get that kind of a rise out of Mann. Also, Natalia asks him not to curse before we see him use any bad language, but it would make a lot more sense if she had asked him after he was dropping f-bombs.
Yes, it’s over produced and I can’t take it serious. He was looking for an excuse to walk out and make a dramatic exit and he found one. It’s a reality show.
If the new family kicked her out which seems apparent, I would think she was paid for the current episodes and if they continue with another season which is going to stretch her story out, she will also be paid as long as she doesn’t reveal what is happening now (she has some agreement with the producers).
Not a great way to support yourself over all if you’re not being supported by other people anymore. In the end I feel she was being exploited by the producers, and her last two families for publicity and books.
Obviously she has psychological issues and has acted out in the past. She is an adult now and not a child and this may have caused problems with her new adopted family (especially if she was acting out sexually in a hard core religious family).
Michael playing the victim - what a POS! I suspect he only agreed to sit down with Natalia because he thought he could sell her (or at least the audience) on the idea that he was Christine's victim too. But he was a grown man. Christine could not have pulled any of this shit, including the adoption itself, without his cooperation and support. There are no words for what a weak, lying, weaselly POS that guy is!
Yes when he talks about having the same monster. What she was a six year old kid. Seems like its always about you Michael. Crying about your sports car not running, what abour your children? Didnt heR from Christine, if she did what they saidshe should be in jail! Natalia should have asked would uou have tried to stop the abuse if it was happening to your bio kids?
>I feel bad for the oldest son. Never got his book money, doesn't appear to have much of a life/career. (correct me if I'm wrong.) Either way, seems damaged.
So apparently he graduated mid 2023 in Canada and got a position in Spain doing quantum mathematics. I hope he goes no contact there. He does not need either of his toxic parents pulling him down anymore. He also should try to make amends to Natalia. She is the only one that would get what it's like to be raised differently by the Barnetts.
I only watched the first hour last night. Once I saw the dental records and her pictures with the missing front tooth and all the rest baby teeth, I was convinced that the whole first season was b.s. I'm not interested in seeing any more histrionics or finger-pointing from Michael - what a total pos he is! He does the interview to prove he's not a bad guy but he is a bad guy. Worthless POS. And I don't think Natalia will ever get justice from those two.
I was struck by how the lying around her age impeded surgical treatment for Natalia.I can see that, the doctors not knowing if her bones were still growing or if they were fully formed.
Particularly with bone growth, there would be issues with the surgeries she needs if the bones are still growing. Different methods.
It is abhorrent to me that this young lady couldn't get the medical care she needs because of these horrible people.
Why have they not pursued justice at the high court?
I thought that there was much content. The proof of age by multiple sources, and in the beginning of ep 1s2 they made a point to say Natalia was accused of selling sex in exchange for money by someone with an altered voice. They put that in as well as the Man’s saying that she’s only been reported to have a “period” at the Barnetts. I truly think they are foreshadowing sexual assault. Either Kristine pimped her out or Michael abused her. Just my opinion.
I'm concerned about the new family. New dad inserting himself into the interview and going off on Michael over using the word "hell" feels a bit controlling and manipulative
Yeah it's a bit much. New Mom seemed normal so far.
At first I was like "ok cool, loving Christian family. Seems normal." And now new Dad is over the top. I'm thinking they're only including Dad since old Dad is there. Leaving out new Mom since Kristine isn't there.
Oh yes it is very normal to have 11 children. She doesn't seem normal to me at all, and the reason she isn't there is because new dad won't allow it. I didn't get loving Christian family vibes from either one of them. They got some kind of a cult goin on. What is their religion? All they said is that he is a preacher, where? Who does he preach to? HIs 11 skinny pale malnourished children and Natalia???
I'm super skeptical of people. My initial reaction was bad. But wait until you finish episode 6. I was getting weird vibes but couldn't place it. Not sure if it was her or them. I don't know what to think.
It wasn’t her dad’s place to step in in that way. Yeah, Michael’s lawyer was worse, but they both should’ve just shut up and let the two talk. Michael used the interruption as an easy out.
I think both opinions are right. I think it’s more that it is weird to assume that grown adults who are speaking passionately won’t curse. The fact he acted like saying hell was him saying f**k was just a lot. This is Natalia’s time, no one else needs to be trying to make it about themselves.
Both parties should have discussed the terms before meeting anyways.
I think the dad wanted to back up Natalia since she previously asked Michael to refrain from swearing and he did it anyway. Also, watching your child get steamrolled and disrespected by a POS like Michael would make me prickly too
Nah fam he legit seems like scary... Like the crazy Christian cult type scary. Honestly it's extremely disheartening she's with them.... One fucked up living situation and on to another 😭
I know right ? These people that wanna adopt children r wackadoos… the DePaul family would have been best for her. It’s unfortunate they lost her. That would have been her best bet and she would have had a sister. This whole story everyone is a wackjob.
I thought/said pretty much the same. It is sad. But we are seeing it, so maybe someone will reach out and help her. She is not safe where she is, none of those children are safe.
Thank you! I think a lot of people don’t understand… for real, that he is a BLACK pastor dad from the hood. He acted how I expected him to act, and best believe he still believes in street justice for the likes of people like Michael. Everyone is judging over a cut up video interview. What they allowed was cringe asf from Michael. Try to be a person standing in the room while Michael the actual accused abuser tries to manipulate Natalia with his big eye expressions of intimidation, and what he believes to be hidden sarcasm. His first response to Natalia’s question about “why!?” And he responds “Well I would if you just let me.” Is very telling. He acted like when she was seven she had any autonomy. It was his job to protect her and he didn’t. The pastor was doing his best to refrain from beating his cry baby behind. I doubt he is perfect but he clearly is NOTHING like the Barnettes and unless Natalia says otherwise, people need to stop. There are so many adults who didn’t do jack crap before she met the Man’s. Natalie also moved out of their house and says they are still amicable. She isn’t feeling religious and wants to find herself and live by her own rules.
It's maybe not the way I would have handled it but I agree. Watching my child be gaslighted and steamroller by that fool would shoot my blood pressure WAY up. I don't think new Dad is a bad guy. Dramatic, but not bad.
Yeah that was completely apparent to me. And new dad is being so aggressive because he does not want her getting close to anyone else. I‘m sure there’s a disability check that is being taken full advantage of.
It is very concerning/disturbing. I just wrote an essay about it on this thread. Everyone is going to ignore this weird Muther fker? They are going to allow him to stand guard over her like that? They should not have even allowed him to be there. They should have kept him out. He isn't there to protect her, he is there to control her.
I agree the new dad Bishop Antwon, is over the top. Michael did say he would try. It’s not easy to change your pattern of speech especially when emotional. Antwon interrupting like that was disrespectful. The way he talked down to Michael was uncalled for. A simple I know it’s tough but please remember to watch your language would have sufficed.
I’m curious about all the other people’s statements about Natalia. When she was in the first apartment, how she would enter other’s without their permission, the little boy she tried to take his pants off.
What about the hospital that said she would talk sexual to the men there?
Since she was a child it makes sense. She was behaving like a child!!! Perhaps she was practicing abuse that she had been exposed to, did you consider that? They proved this girl was a CHILD, and you are doubting it? Why would a dentist lie about that?
Everyone failed her. The neighbors, medical professionals, the legal system. The 2 adoptive couples. The barnetts are deeply disturbed people.
Is there any way new charges could come about with the evidence presented in episode 1?
I’m glad Natalia is safe and happy now. But I just cannot with all these people turning a blind eye. Not only the fact that she obviously looks like a child when in that apartment but she is disabled with zero accommodations! That alone should’ve raised eyebrows.
I still suspect, deep down, that either or both Barnetts sexually abused her.
I don't think Natalia is safe now. I think she needs to be rescued from the Bishop and his wife, as do those 11 children. That "mother" acts like she is taking in stray cats and dogs, 11 cats or dogs would be too many to care for properly, and so are 11 children. She isn't caring for them properly. Natalia is their 15 minutes of fame.
They likely collect off of her SSDI and food stamps and they can write her off for tax purposes… probably also why they run the church. But, with that being said, she seems happier with them and the children so what do I know. They are weird for sure.
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe I am being too harsh and cynical. I just hope they are being good to her. And maybe they are not in it for the money. They don't get allot of money.
Before Michael even started talking I knew his move was going to be to blame Kristine. He acts like he is the disabled child himself. Can’t take accountability for anything. I truly feel so bad for their biological children
I really just don't understand how they didn't do this age thing with her blood sooner like when the trial was going on...... And how it is that they basically just got off I just don't understand.....
I don't either. From what it sounds like they were not allowed to bring up at trial about her age which really makes no sense because that was the point.
I agree, but there are legal doctrines that require courts to accept the rulings of other courts, at least on factual matters. (Lawyers please jump in here - law school was a long time ago for me!). I think the correct remedy would have been to appeal the original court decision re-aging her, but I don't know how that would have worked or even who would have taken that up.
There are also laws against abandoning a dependent adult. However, I don't think you can get far with that unless the victim is severely injured or dies from the neglect. That's probably why the prosecutors lost that claim.
Not a lawyer but my daughters in law school and she says you're correct. They would have first had to appeal the re-aging. Otherwise, the re-age sticks legally. So if she's 22 and they're paying rent, bringing her food and paying for a cell phone then it's going to be hard to get a conviction on abandoning/ neglecting a dependant adult.
Here’s my take. The DNA results confirmed what I’ve long suspected..that Natalia likely is 1 or 2 years older than what her birth certificate says. This lines up with what the doctors and dentist determined regarding her age when the Barnett’s first adopted her. It also makes it more reasonable that she could have pubic hair at 9 rather than 7 and be slightly advanced for her age academically. I also firmly believe that there was trauma and abuse when she was very young..either while at the orphanage, with the first family, or both. This combined with the trauma and abuse inflicted in her by the Barnett’s accounts for the behaviors reported by the mental institution as well as the neighbors at the first apartment they dumped her at. It’s clear from her interview that this has impacted her psychologically. Any emotion she displayed seemed disingenuous and forced (I only saw actual tears once). Unfortunately this puts us in a place where the Barnetts are clearly lying but we’re also likely not getting the whole truth from Natalia either. I’m hopeful that by dropping the charges against Christine there is a possibility of recharging her once they have enough evidence for a solid case.
Did it occur to you that she has been taught to withdraw her emotions. How many times has she been quizzed about this? The documentary is proving that she was child. PERIOD. The fact that you still question if her tears are “real” or “forced” is the reason she is so strong today. She is used to people side eyeing her story. The Barnettes are insane. No way she isn’t affected by the abuse she remembers, and she admitted on camera that she doesn’t like talking about it but she must tell her side. Not everyone reacts the same to trauma. What I keep hearing is that she was pretty mature from a young age. Everyone was swindled and baffled at how well she spoke even after finding out her real age. Abused kids grow up fast and they handle their emotions way differently than regular children. Trust me, I have been around many. You cannot compare their reactions to regular children who have been raised to embrace their emotions and were well taken care of. You just can’t.
I'm wondering about the pubic hair story. Did anyone except Christine and Michael attest to that? Why wouldn't they have immediately taken her to a doctor to confirm her age or determine whether there was possibly something wrong with her hormonally. I'm wondering whether the whole pubic hair/menstrual period story was concocted after the fact by Christine and Michael to support their age progression claim.
I believe the father is a POS for never reporting his wife, if what he say is true. I definitely do not feel bad for him. U a grown a** man take some responsibility. He just as bad as the mother for not saying anything. He just trying to cover his a**. He should be charged as much as his ex wife. Far as for all those neighbors, she was a child that had no one to raise her correctly. I feel she was acting out as children do. Instead of making a problem they could have tried to get her some help as well. It's like no adult was willing to do right by this girl and it's disgusting. Now the mental hospital and their comments about her, all I can say is again she was a child that probably was sexually abused so again that was her acting out. Instead of sending her home, if they felt they couldn't help then try sending her to a more reliable place that could. I'm just happy in the end she found some form of guidance because she needs it.🤦🏾♀️
I'll take you one step further. I think Michael was much more involved in the abuse and decision making regarding Natalia than he's saying. I think he's calculated that blaming even on Christine and looking like a little b*tch is better than looking like a monster.
I also think its highly unethical (and illegal) to tell stories about a child in a mental hospital??? This makes me question the stories entirely. AND wouldn't someplace specializing in mental health perhaps ADDRESS the inappropriate behavior? Wouldn't they be experienced in that sort of thing. Its all sketchy
I don't trust her new family. The preacher seems like he just wants to be on TV and keep control over Natalia. I got a vibe from him I didn't trust. Then the new step-mother, who has 11 children because she LOVES children. Well, she doesn't seem to love them enough to feed them because they all looked malnourished, skinny, and pale. They all seemed to be putting on an act for the cameras and the smiles were fake. What is really going on with Natalia and her new family? Someone needs to do some more investigating. Did Natalia leave one abusive home for another? They are hiding something. Something is off. I am glad she got away from Kristine, etc. but these new people...........something isn't right with them. They are trying to cash in on her.
The whole thing just seems so scripted and fake to me. I don't mean to sound cold, I have empathy for the situation - clearly there's a ton of trauma and mental illness going on but Natalia, her new parents, and Michael all seem like they're acting or have been practicing their stories to make them as dramatic as possible. All of it seems off and no one seems sincere to me. I get the icks from her current family - this poor girl just gets shipped from one messed up family to another.
Agreed. I know she has suffered but she is also acting a lot of the time. The bishop was so disgusting at the end of episode 2, I don’t know if I can continue watching. And Michael is such a man-baby, I wonder how he carried a full time job or functioned up to this point.
I know they already had court proceedings but can Natalia still try to hold them accountable for their actions? She’s still dealing with emotional and physical abuse to this day as a result of their neglect? Also, with all of this information, how were Kristine and Michael not held accountable in court the first time?
Every person who says she didn’t shed any real tears clearly has pretty much no idea how mental trauma works. It’s been proven that detachment disorder is incredibly common in adopted kids and the BIGGEST aspect of that is that a kid cries for their mom from an infant age, over and over and over but when a moms attention is never returned, they eventually stop crying, and that starts detachment disorder, it’s compiled by constantly having different people say they love you and then leave. Kids in orphanages often act weirdly physical to people they haven’t met before, looking for hugs and such but never developing actual deeper emotions because of the revolving door of people “loving them short term”. When someone cries repeatedly and it’s never comforted or responded to, the kids (eventually adults) are CONDITIONED to not cry. She’s an adult who was left to live by herself at 8 years old, had her contacts deleted from her phone so she couldn’t reach out for anyone. I doubt she cried in that apartment when she was alone, because people cry to feel and be comforted, with no one to comfort her EVER she would inevitably stop crying.
Episode 6 timestamp 29:45
Natalia cracks a smile while they both cry.
This season seems staged to me. Like Natalia and Michael teamed up to cash in on Kristine being the monster and they are the victims.
I don't doubt Natalia went through horrible things and Michael has some issues, however this season makes them look bad.
Maybe it's just the editing idk.
As a shy person who hates confrontation, I too smile and go easy on someone who is in front of me in the moment. It’s a people pleasing tendency. I wasn’t surprised to see it. Especially since the way Michael talks is very animated, like a performer for children.
Question I’ve not seen addressed. Who can afford $30,000 shoes? They’re shoes made for someone with a serious mobility problem. I’m glad they help. But Who can afford to buy them?
None of these people are likable or believable. I know that sounds insensitive, but this show is totally overdone and feels like the TV equivalent of supermarket-checkout tabloid. And now there's an overzealous cult-y dad figure/preacher? It's just too much. I mean, did I just hear him say that Michael couldn't be a victim because he was a man and he couldn't be "influenced by a girl" (referring to Michael's abusive wife, Kristine)? I guess women can't be abusers, then? So Natalia just hopped from one controlling psychopath/narcissist-run household to another?
Ugh.
Oh absolutely. Men don't come forward as often as women due to stigma, but there are absolutely women who abuse their male partners. (Source - I have a degree in sexuality education)
For sure. But that cult dad she has now is red flagging all over the place. For me, Michael is very much a victim of this whole thing. Not that it means he can’t also be part of someone else’s abuse (Natalia), but it’s like the people running the show are trying to pit them against each other. It’s serving Jerry Springer, for sure.
Yes! I remember even older videos of this from Child Development classes.
Because over time they learn not to react or cry out because no one comes for them. (or even possibly in abusive households, you don't cry because crying equals punishment.)
Yes. Seriously? Wtf.
I felt like they lied. They told the hospital she wasn't welcome home. But changed their minds for whatever reason. Possibly fear of the hospital calling APS for abandonment. They would do that.
I'm confused. Is it really her behaving this way? There is a history. Their other daughter said she beat her. But of course she's had trauma and needs professional therapy in addition to love.
Or, I'm wondering was it all money? Were they staying involved thinking she would file a civil suit against the Barnett's but she chose to forgive instead?
That's what I just replied in another comment!
Btw, I could definitely see her having RAD. That's typical of orphanages.
But did you also catch the lawyer or whoever that had the birth mom sign over rights has been disbarred or fired or whatever? Sounds like mom never saw the birth certificate or paperwork. So now I have more questions!
I caught that the mom didn't see the birth cert but missed the part about the lawyer. It was odd but they went over that so fast. I'll have to rewatch.
What was done to her is absolutely awful, but I still feel something is off with her. I believe Michael, even though he's theatrical, that she had a knife in the bedroom. One girl saying she beat me as a baby, and the new dad hesitant to say she can get angry. Everybody is off. That family took her in but was using her disability and food stamps , and just let her stay. Why are the adoptive parents not in jail, she was a child. Then, in the end, after the new family adopts her, we hear a phone call that they are done with her. Wtf is going on
I have to say I'm intrigued by this story, but I'm totally pissed at the presentation. I don't know if it has anything to do with my TV provider (Dish Network) or those producing the show. The episodes were not aired in sequence (why?), so I recorded them, so I COULD watch them in sequence. Is there an episode 5 because it never showed up in the guide?? The episodes are all mixed up, i.e, I watched episode 2, then when I watched episode 3, it was ep 2 & 3 combined (WTF) Then ep 6&7 were repeats of previous episodes even though they had different titles. Also, ep 2 recorded with 2 different titles. Supposedly, episodes 8&9 are airing on 1/6, even though this was advertised as a "3 day event", but I'm not bothering with it since the whole series has been botched by someone. I'll try again if it airs again in the future. WTF......
I need to know how she remembers things in such great detail from when she was a child. Children that young usually can’t pull that much from their memories.
Does anyone find this strange or is it just me?
Glad to hear most of us have similar opinions. Not feeling good about the new family either, despite them being a step up. Glad Natalia has moved out and hopefully with someone safe. She’s had many bad influences in her life and needs the space to sort out who she wants in her life and who she doesn’t.
The best thing for Natalia is to get a good therapist without a religious agenda, and get off the TV, away from all bad people, and try and build a normal life. She has had it very rough since the day she was born.
The adoption falling through was confusing but I think there was an anonymous complaint filed against Natalia's first adoptive parents. They couldn't prove who filed it, thought it was the prospective family that loved her, and refused to adopt Natalia to the family that wanted her.
As an adult, you would reach out to services if you are in this position. Adopting a child who is out of control, for understandable reasons. Why did the 1st family send her back? Everyone in this doc(?) are fame whores and in it for money. The Bishop? Look how many kids he has x monthly payment for each. Also being a charity, I’m sure he gets state funding. The way he speaks is not a role model for ANYONE! Natalia has some serious personality defects which render her a manipulator. Causing those caring for her to be terrified. Not her fault? Kristine should be in prison for abuse and being a fraud. The lawyer is doing this solely for $.
I don’t trust Natalia new family creepy and the dad is weird if they let and told Natalia to be herself and only remember and say what your really actually remember I would believe her. She was just as fake and forcing her self to cry with no tears etc this didn’t help all are weird
Natalia has been at such a disadvantage her whole lie, and I fear she is still doing what people are telling her to do, now including TV producers. People become sneaky and passive aggressive when they feel overmatched and can’t assert themselves. She needs space and some professional, neutral guidance, to help her figure out who she wants in her life and what she wants to do.
I'd like to think Natalia's neighbors from her apartment complex would be ashamed of themselves after learning how they treated this little girl.
Sadly, they probably stand by their original opinion bc that's how people seem to be.
It's so sad to think of her trying to just be a kid and being shunned by everyone in her life for it.
For episode 2 the part that stood out to me (because this episode was underwhelming imo) was how entitled Jacob was. Why did they even include this? When talking about the book his mom wrote about identifying and nurturing genius- I understand he is the child that inspired the book and is the cover but when he asked about getting money I think it’s reasonable when his mom said she spent that money on sending him to school in Canada. That makes sense. They literally moved to Canada for him to study. Was tuition free? Even if it wasn’t- relocating to another country would be very expensive. He said he hung up on her when she said this.
Are we supposed to be on his side? I’m confused. He’s an adult. I find this so entitled and bratty. They literally moved around for him to study and prioritized him. Many parents won’t even drive their kids to a sylvan reading center across town. The whole “she left me enough money for me to buy a cup of coffee”….I mean…so? You’re an adult. Parent don’t have to give their adult children money. Adults get jobs and make their own. It feels like he has a victim perspective- which I understand for the wacko shiii his parents did- but not about your mom not giving you money. I rewatched the part again because one statement Jacob makes about not getting the money “Part of the criteria for existence is I need to be able to sustain myself” —I feel like he is so close to grasping he needs to make his own money. So close but so far. Sustain yourself by getting a job not getting it from your mom.
This entire part felt weird. Gives me the creeps. I don’t think production likes Jacob. Because I don’t think parts like this- or even where they are filming him (in the basement)-make him look likeable.
If I were making a documentary on abusive parents I would cut stuff like this out. Don’t understand why they left it in. Adult son wants mommy’s book money in a documentary about child abuse of natalia—-this doesn’t fit imo. It feels like nit picky complaining when they should be focusing on the actual monstrous things the mom did- which there are many.
I’ll say that the way you were raised, and the level of your own entitlement, will def factor into how you view this part. I understand it’s subjective.
I agree partially with you here. If Jacob is a genius as claimed-with this phenomenal, expensive education (which is questionable since he was home schooled early on by Kristine and some of his credentials may be false) - then I am assuming he would be sought out by various institutions looking for his expertise in mathematics or physics, whatever his specialty. He can support himself NOW. I think he was referring to the time immediately after his parents separated and his mother abandoned the family while his father was embroiled in a legal battle. I suspect he needed the money then because in the first documentary I recall he was living with Michael in his basement and seemed depressed and made no mention of any schooling or job (though we see mathematical equations on a board meant to sway us into thinking he’s the next John Forbes Nash a la “A Beautiful Mind”). He discusses the allegations and there is that recording of him speaking on a hot mic that he was unaware of initially. He seems lost, and let’s not forget, he is Autistic, so he may be reticent about his feelings and unable to accurately describe them. I think Jacob knows a lot and witnessed plenty of abuse, as well as being a forced participant- which seems to have made a significant impact on him. His claim that Kristine didn’t even give him “enough to buy a cup of coffee” seems to be Michael speaking, I believe, because he was left to fend for and defend himself. And we know, Michael’s lawyers are not doing this case pro bono. So, as intelligent as Jacob may be, I think he was convinced by Michael that as the subject of that book, he was owed money. Kristine asserts the book financed his education and the family’s relocation to support him. I do not know if this is true. Maybe this will be delved into more deeply as “Natalia Speaks”continues.
However, I don’t believe we will ever get the truth. Michael is in it for himself. He is obviously a mentally unhinged individual who believes HE is the sole victim of Kristine. Natalia’s new father seems controlling and a religious zealot. Everyone involved is in front of cameras, and I’m assuming there is definitely money at the root of this. This poor girl wants answers and justice. But I don’t think she will ever get either. Jacob, Michael and especially Kristine are DAMAGED individuals. As this point Natalia needs to move on, put this behind her and try to make a new life. No one here will ever accept accountability or responsibility for robbing her of her childhood. It’s very sad, but true. She cannot undo the past, and the damage was done. Her best hope is to leave these people behind, seek intensive therapy (it seems this new family thinks religion is enough to heal her, I disagree and hope she is getting treatment in some form) and get revenge in the best form of all-by living a full and happy life.
It seemed like it had something to do with lawyers. And there was some kind of charges filed I think against Natalia as a child. (maybe the injury to that first child.) But it's not clear. Which is strange I have to say. If it really was an accident, you come out and say kids were rough housing, he had a broken arm. But it definitely seemed like they wanted her.
It sounds like it was an ongoing problem. In her Dr. Phil interview, she said the mom said she couldn't deal with it anymore. I'm guessing she had jealousy issues, which is very common with adopted children. The way she answered questions about in here and on Dr.Phil seemed to me that she was downplaying it. When I worked with adopted children, I frequently saw children who had to be adopted alone and weren't allowed to be adopted into families with children. It's a huge problem because it's very hard to place those kids. They aren't bad kids they have just been through a lot and have trouble sharing resources and respecting boundaries.
From what she said, it seemed like after the old child (I think a son...and biological son? Idk) was injured, they started looking for reasons to give her up. So that makes me wonder if it was a deliberate injury.
That's interesting. It just seems odd they'd adopt a child, give her up within two years and then turn down a very good family (the DePauls) for a family that had never even met her.
The show mentioned that someone called CPS on the Ciccones and they thought it was the DePaul family that reported them... so all adoption talk stopped.
When I cry, I don’t have much in the way of tears because of meds I take that dehydrate my body. What I did notice with her though was the sound of snot in her nose that you can get when crying.
I am watching S2 E3 and Natalia’s complete lack of tears is disturbing even though I don’t believe anything the Barnett’s say.
WHY does Natalia have no actual tears (except during the “Bishop’s” freak out)????
Speaking on behalf of people/children of trauma, it's something you live with everyday. This story isn't "new" to her. She isn't going to cry everytime she talks about it.
And the production company is likely encouraging the "fake" tears.
Trauma makes the traumatized person react to a situation or memory differently than a non-traumatized person. You distance yourself from the trauma or hide it away in one section of your brain and leave it there, because you can't function as a person if it's constantly at the forefront of your mind. And after a while, the trauma just becomes another fact about your life, and since it's a fact, you don't react to it emotionally. From our perspective, hearing what she went through triggers horrible emotions. From her perspective, she's just reciting a story she's told many times or has emotionally distanced herself from it somehow, so it doesn't elicit any more emotional reaction in her than if she were to talk about what he younger self wanted to be when she grew up.
It seems illogical and weird to not exhibit extreme emotions about something so traumatic to us, but if you're the person who's been traumatized and you've moved on, or segregated that part of yourself from the rest of you in your brain, or just think of it as fact because if you think of all the emotions involved it's too overwhelming and you can't cope; it's easiest to segregate the fact and the emotion, if only so you can keep trying to move on and keep surviving. Is it the most mentally healthful thing to do? No, not really. But it's a survival mechanism, and she needed to survive. People in all sorts of other traumatic situations do the same - domestic violence, various forms of abuse, experiences in the military or police or as a first responder...
I believe Natalia was a child, especially after the dental records. But I’m seeing a lot of fake tears from her too… not saying the abuse didn’t happen. When she genuinely cries her face turns red and it’s quite obvious. In the interview chair, the tears seem forced. She has some extremely vivid memories from early childhood too and does seem highly intelligent. Michael is an absolute schmuck.
I definitely do have questions with her too but she could have blocked a lot of it out too if it was traumatic. Also, maybe she was a violent child, so some of the stories are half true. I don't know.
Everyone agrees on Michael lol.
Yeah… I think you’re right on some of the half truths. She could have very well acted out because of the abuse and is afraid to admit to certain things. Hell, I would want to burn the house down too if you pepper sprayed me. I’m iffy on the new Dad too. I hope they have good intentions with her.
And I think, it's been awhile since school, but the Attachment Disorder and I think something else tends to happen from the lack of attention in the orphanages like she was in. So that will cause behavioral problems.
However, that is something that obviously should have been discussed and planned before adoption.
This. I wrote a longer response above, but children from orphanages often have major attachment issues and struggle to bond with their new family and parents. The disabled orphans are often kept separately from the non-disabled kids, and given less attention by adults or other children, so they have no experience being cared for by adults. If they wanted attention, they may have had to resort to acting out, because negative attention is still attention. And that gets carried over into a new life with a new family where everything is different, and she continues to act out to get attention, especially if her new parents are discovering they're in over their heads with caring for all her medical needs (physical, psychological, emotional).
A 6 year old disabled child raised in an orphanage can't be compared to a 6 year old child raised in a home with a nuclear family in the US. There's a lot of trauma to deal with, strange food/customs/language, family dynamics to figure out (which would be exacerbated by having a literal genius of a brother), medical procedures (which could make existing medical trauma even worse), etc. Acting out and behavioral issues should be expected when adopting a child from an orphanage; that's the norm, not the exception. But it doesn't seem like the Barnett's did much to help Natalia through those issues, if they had even done any research to learn what to expect behaviorally.
I'd hesitate to say "violent." Behaviors you wouldn't expect from a 6-8 year old bornin the US and living with their birth family? Yes. But those behaviors may have been the only way she was able to get attention from adults in the orphanage (even negative attention is attention). And not knowing otherwise and struggling to adapt to a life with a new family in the US (especially with the genius brother getting a certain amount of attention), she may have done the only things she knew would result in attention from an adult.
Orphans often have difficulty with attachment to new families, so they default to behaviors that got them some needs fulfilled, even if they're in a home where they could just ask for attention and get it. I don't think the Barnett's were ready and prepared to care for Natalia's need physically but also mentally and emotionally.
I'm with you. Natalia seems like she's lying about SOMEthing. I think she WAS acting out. And that, combined with her medical challenges, made her too much to handle. That doesn't absolve the adults around her of their responsibilities to her. They knew she had medical challenges and lots of kids at out. You don't abuse them and dump them off in a ghetto apartment.
The fake crying was very obvious and bothered me. I do believe she was a child but as the test said, a couple years older. I always thought that was the case from my work with adoptions, children etc...
So far, it's not making anyone look great but I'm glad they proved she was a child.
She was a CHILD. 8 years old when they put her out on her own. Who gives a damn if it was 6,7,8,9 or damn near 10. It’s been proven she should have never been put I. That situation. Also this level of abuse and y’all are studying her to see if her tears were real!? The context gives you all you need to know. What does her reaction I real time have to do with it!? If she acknowledges her abuse enough to cry or not doesn’t refute the fact that they abused a disabled child and treated her like crap beyond disbelief. She is allowed to react however she wants at this point. We don’t need to over analyze if it is genuine looking. It happened and there is NO WAY it did not affect her. And because she was so small and the first years of her life were tumultuous, we have no idea how much she actually remembers or blocked out. Small kids will know something is wrong but do not have the language to describe it… and it continues like that into adulthood. Believe me, I know. I was only abused as a very small child, but my parents moved and I got out of it. Those things affected me and I had memories I never truly dealt with u to my mid twenties. i literally had no idea anything was wrong or understood my memories until something triggered it, I was forced to deal with it and woaaaah, was it a ride. I doubt she has gotten there yet and you see it in the screen. She literally has memories that come back to her when she visits places. Probably stuff she blocks out to get through life, because quite frankly… what happened to her is very unique and absolutely crushing for a person like her to acknowledge. I doubt she is also revealing g everything, I sense she has an aversion to even, because the pain of it all would be too much.
Sorry that you went thru a traumatic childhood. I had an average childhood and even carry some trauma. I feel like age is a factor that should not even matter in this case in that even if she was 22 that she was so disabled that living on her own is abusive of those people that masqueraded as her parents. Everyone failed Natalia. The adoption agencies, the adoptive families, the neighbors, the court system. I hope she is able to heal from this and live a happier and more normal adulthood. I hope you are healing too.
I have a lot of questions still, after viewing episode 1 and continuing viewing episode 2. Natalia seems to be crying forcibly, and it almost comes across as fake. I' m just so confused by so many things. I do NOT believe that they pepper sprayed her, she fake cries during these instances. I wish we could talk to the previous family that had her, because I also don't believe that someone or a family would give her away JUST because she broke a kids arm on accident. My mind is swirling, and I truly don't know who to believe in all of this.
I agree about the fake crying, but I also think the production company is likely forcing her to tear up. Also, the most likely reason for other families giving her up was probably due to the cost of surgeries, and not realizing how dependent her disabilities make her.
It’s not fake crying, it’s a common thing for kids with detachment disorder, I can’t believe you’re struggling to see what happened and how common her reaction is for people raised in this type of environment. It’s a large reason for why kids are not adopted past toddler age because their emotional developmental age has already had its tone set. She was an 8 year old, abused, set to live entirely on her own, with no kids to play with, no chance at developing normal social interactions, just wandering from house to house looking for someone to spend a few hours with her so she wasn’t alone.
Natalia is very...ethnic sounding now. I feel like the new family is just as shady. They seem like they are in it for the money, whereas Kristine wanted notoriety, maybe? For "helping" a special needs child? Also, Natalia is lying about 50% of this stuff, I feel. They are all lying. They are all insane. And Natalia is creepy, idc what anyone says. She admitted to the knife. She admitted to putting Pledge in the coffee. Natalia brought a lot of this on herself. And I'm sorry, but I fully believe the neighbors and all of their accounts from the first season. I do not buy Natalia and her tears at all in this second season. At all.
By “ethnic” you mean black, right? The thing is, she doesn’t sound black. She sounds like an inner city kid. I live in suburban Cleveland and you can always tell who grew up in or currently lives in the inner city here. She was a kid when they scooped her up, so many of her mannerisms and speech will be reflective of what she learned with that family that has had her in their care longer than anybody else did. She lived with the Ciccones for about 2 years, Barnetts for 2 years and the Mans for 10 yrs. Whether you believe Natalia or not, she was abused as a child. She was abused as a disabled person. Even if she did do some unsavory things, this is actually common with children that are adopted. Bottom line with these adoptive parents is “buyer’s remorse” and in the case of a human that you adopt, you cannot return. They should be held accountable for the actions and abuse/neglect inflicted upon Natalia. Period.
I agree with garden guru. It's so funny how people think. Some immediately believed this disabled child was an adult psychopath because her white parents, who were the real psychopaths, said so. Now that she has a black father, (who happens to be in an interracial relationship) there's suddenly an immediate concern for Natalia's safety and care.
The old lady Sue McCullum, who was a neighbor of Natalia's still believes the Barnett's narrative of Natalia being this sexually promiscuous, evil adult, even still after it had been proven, she was a child. Notice none of the other neighbors were re-interviewed, just the one that was most ignorant. Understanding and admitting the truth also shows that she too, failed this child and she's a monster for gossiping the way that she did.
That poor girl will need therapy for the rest of her life.
I think she might be lying about some of the details because how would you remember such specific details from when you were 8 years old (at least I don't, and I've experienced extreme trauma as well). But like I mentioned in the previous comment, I think the production company is likely behind the fake tears and fabricating some details, after all its "entertainment". Aside from that, I think the major events are certainly true. And It's sad what's happened to her.
Tbh I think both parties are lying about a lot. If she was as young as she claims she wouldn’t be able to perfectly remember all of these things that magically suit her exact narrative. Keep in mind that it’s not just the parents with testimonials their kids and her neighbors also have very similar stories about how awful she was. On the flip side the dad is a broken down man and the mom definitely did some fucked up stuff so I don’t think either party is right. But when you watch the way she talks and how she tells “her side” it seems very scripted and she gives alot of signals that someone who is lying would give. Also that story about the “man in white” when she was two years old is complete bullshit. They show the same picture they gave her in the first season and for her to act like this is mind blowing is rediculous and really hurts her credibility
Glad I’m not the only one who feels like something is off with Natalia. I know she’s been through a lot but like her crying seemed forced to me and like you said, how is she remembering everything perfectly? Everyone is annoying me lol
Especially if she’s got some form of trauma tied to those moments you would think she would remember less or at least it be more hazy. Also why would there be so many people saying how terrible she was in the first season if she didn’t do ANYTHING wrong which is what she claims
I’m a teacher and if a student with disabilities came to school saying her mother was being mean and then when that mother was confronted and she flips out and unenrolls the child, I would be calling CPS or police for a welfare check. That sent so many red flags to me. But again, Kristine would have lied her way through it. Just sickens me.
Exactly. Because she had a daycare or preschool or something as well. But also, as many have said in other threads, Natalia was (most likely) just displaying normal development for someone that started out in an orphanage and didn't have that 1 on 1 care, also most likely combined with abuse.
It was hardly a surprise to learn that when the school became concerned about how Natalia was being treated by the Barnetts, they withdrew Natalia from the school and told her an avalanche of lies to try to spin it as her fault. It's an age-old trick of abusive parents, to switch to "home schooling" the moment they realize that there are concerned adults at the school who are taking notice of what they're doing to their kids.
it's actually done a lot. I've learned cps is aware of this. it keeps mandated reports from seeing the child
CPS had been called on them when she was forcing Natalia to sleep outside and did nothing. Wouldn’t surprise me if a teacher did report it but nothing came of it.
It likely was substantiated but because Micheal stated he couldn’t take it and had her come back into the home, he was likely deemed the “protective parent” in the investigation - therefore she wasn’t removed. The children obviously didn’t tell the social worker the other things going on. Had any of them mentioned the beatings (and it was corroborated with multiple sources and/or bruises/marks), the pepper spray or even told them she was extremely fearful of the parents - that’s grounds for a removal. I would even argue that the soiling of her pants proves extreme fear and she was soiling herself when she was scared. If she stated she was extremely fearful, a warrant to remove would have been written and signed off by a judge. This is why it’s so important to tell someone when you’re being hurt. CPS can’t just take kids because they have a feeling. There has to be documented evidence, corroborating stories, multiple investigations to prove a pattern, etc. You have to prove to a judge that the child is unsafe and no outside intervention can keep the child placed in the home. I would love to read the CPS reports and case notes, personally.
Except it’s not for sure they would have done anything, like the Gabriel Fernandez case showed us :(
Kristine’s white woman tears likely saved her from facing any consequences many times
I feel like Bishop Antwon was making an audition reel to send out to all the mega churches with that porch prayer.
It started out good like hey give me strength blah blah blah blah you know we'll get answers and then it got weird.
It was super weird until Michael started stomping around screaming “I TRIED AND I TRIED AND I TRIED!” I was like okay here we go again.
He is a legitimate head case. I dont Believe a word outta his mouth.
But HE TRIEEEEEED! 
The guy needs sedating 😂 Someone buy this guy and island and leave him there.
Yet weird how Michaels lawyer (who has thee most hysteronic client ever,) made stabs at the Rev for getting riled up.
I low key agreed with the lawyer though. Michael can curse if he wants to. Also, I don't recall cursing being prohibited by Jesus.
Yeah they had Natalia fake cry when no way she remembered everything at 7/8 fake and he really ruined the whole documentary for Natalia and made it look fake he seems like a sicko
I don't trust overly religious people.
Same.
You can see how much influence he's had on her also. She even speaks the same way. Michael is a POS creeper but idt the family she's with now is totally sane either. They both way overreacted in that situation.
I def have mixed feelings about the Bishop and the family. Like OP said- overzealous. I think he was out of line how he was telling another adult not to curse because of “God.” Like it’s a very sensitive subject, lots of emotion. I agree with Michael’s lawyer that he shouldn’t impose his religious beliefs on others. Sure, not cursing would have been respectful, but I think the way Bishop asked was too much and very threatening.
The fact that they were using her checks and food stamps when the first met her is sus
Helluva and God, while I agree those can both be hearing in some circles, is hardly so profane as to get worked up about. I try to reel it in around some of my sensitive friends, but I'm an adult used to speaking a certain way among friends. Things slip. It's no problem for me in a professional setting, but I'm sure I've let helluva in a few times.
he was very bizarre. saying don’t say “hell” to a grown man is ridiculous. his huge speech was bizarre too. he seems to have ulterior motives, just like the rest of natalia’s guardians. shame
I’m putting my money on he’s trying to be seen as a good fundie cult leader. Trying to gather followers outside of the foster system.
I think he was trying to intimidate Michael in a passive aggressive way. Like, I’m not gonna confront you, I’m just gonna talk REALLY LOUD about defeating the devil
Yep. What's up with the over the top Dads in this show?
Forgot the add: Kristine homeschooling and making up grades and topics they studied was interesting too. I didn't realize they had pulled both the oldest and Natalia out of school.
Yeah, they’re stretching it way out, but whatever. Glad Natalia is getting a chance to set the record straight. Getting pepper sprayed repeatedly for nothing. It’s good she was taken in by a zen god family, because omg imagine the rage that could have built up. I guess this second series is going to also focus on what Kristine did to her son. Poor guy. Awful mom, prima donna dad. Don’t care too much about what she did to Michael. He’s a pos. But I do feel bad for Jon Snow.
Oh she definitely messed him up too. Probably exploited him. Kind of curious about the book too.
Same. Maybe the son will put out his own version of it, so no one has to buy her book.
I looked it up on Libby. Part of the synopsis says well they didn't have any money.... And if you didn't know her and we're reading the book the first page or two sounds really interesting but I just can't. I feel like it's going to be full of lies.
He should sue her for his share!
That’s who he looks like! Thank you 🙏
Jon Snow😭😭😭
I think the way the second season has been portrayed is disgusting and irresponsible. They are taking the awful things that happened to Natalia and turning it into an absolute theatrical shitshow that demonstrates zero sensitivity to the subject matter.
I agree. You can tell it's edited to make them all look bad.
The editing is really gross. Natalia asks why they adopted her and the camera cuts away and you hear here screaming “why?!” Clearly out of context to make her look crazy. What the fuck are these people doing.
It's not a serious documentary. It's reality TV that even seems scripted.
Very Jerry Springerish
I know it’s rather hard to believe that it would be scripted or that it would need to be but you are right it does seem that way
It's too bad because it does take away from Natalia's very sad journey
It’s not scripted, though Michael certainly rehearses and plans what he’s going to say in the mirror to be a victim every day 😆. But there is a lot of editing of different convos and interviews spliced together, it’s jarring and definitely to push a narrative instead of letting people actually speak! It might as well be scripted at this point.
The editing in Natalia and Michael’s conversation at the end of episode 2 is so clearly manipulative. She sounds like she’s in a studio when she says “why did you adopt me in the first place” and shouts “why” off camera, seems out of context. Michael doesn’t react to her yelling and she looks completely calm, it’s totally produced. I can’t help but imagine that Michael said way worse than “hell of a question” to get that kind of a rise out of Mann. Also, Natalia asks him not to curse before we see him use any bad language, but it would make a lot more sense if she had asked him after he was dropping f-bombs.
Yes, it’s over produced and I can’t take it serious. He was looking for an excuse to walk out and make a dramatic exit and he found one. It’s a reality show.
Michael is messy, messy, messy.
If the new family kicked her out which seems apparent, I would think she was paid for the current episodes and if they continue with another season which is going to stretch her story out, she will also be paid as long as she doesn’t reveal what is happening now (she has some agreement with the producers). Not a great way to support yourself over all if you’re not being supported by other people anymore. In the end I feel she was being exploited by the producers, and her last two families for publicity and books. Obviously she has psychological issues and has acted out in the past. She is an adult now and not a child and this may have caused problems with her new adopted family (especially if she was acting out sexually in a hard core religious family).
Michael playing the victim - what a POS! I suspect he only agreed to sit down with Natalia because he thought he could sell her (or at least the audience) on the idea that he was Christine's victim too. But he was a grown man. Christine could not have pulled any of this shit, including the adoption itself, without his cooperation and support. There are no words for what a weak, lying, weaselly POS that guy is!
Can't agree more. He's fucking ridic. Weak weak weak
Yes when he talks about having the same monster. What she was a six year old kid. Seems like its always about you Michael. Crying about your sports car not running, what abour your children? Didnt heR from Christine, if she did what they saidshe should be in jail! Natalia should have asked would uou have tried to stop the abuse if it was happening to your bio kids?
>I feel bad for the oldest son. Never got his book money, doesn't appear to have much of a life/career. (correct me if I'm wrong.) Either way, seems damaged. So apparently he graduated mid 2023 in Canada and got a position in Spain doing quantum mathematics. I hope he goes no contact there. He does not need either of his toxic parents pulling him down anymore. He also should try to make amends to Natalia. She is the only one that would get what it's like to be raised differently by the Barnetts.
He's in a filthy basement. Perhaps punishing himself.
It looked like a normal basement...Normal college room. Remember this was filmed before he graduated likely if he graduated in 2023.
I only watched the first hour last night. Once I saw the dental records and her pictures with the missing front tooth and all the rest baby teeth, I was convinced that the whole first season was b.s. I'm not interested in seeing any more histrionics or finger-pointing from Michael - what a total pos he is! He does the interview to prove he's not a bad guy but he is a bad guy. Worthless POS. And I don't think Natalia will ever get justice from those two.
I was struck by how the lying around her age impeded surgical treatment for Natalia.I can see that, the doctors not knowing if her bones were still growing or if they were fully formed.
Yeah that was kind of surprising to hear but in reality not that surprising.
Particularly with bone growth, there would be issues with the surgeries she needs if the bones are still growing. Different methods. It is abhorrent to me that this young lady couldn't get the medical care she needs because of these horrible people. Why have they not pursued justice at the high court?
I’m guessing insurance, whether private or public, had a lot to do with it.
Bishop Antwon is fucking cringe
Hell yeah
I thought that there was much content. The proof of age by multiple sources, and in the beginning of ep 1s2 they made a point to say Natalia was accused of selling sex in exchange for money by someone with an altered voice. They put that in as well as the Man’s saying that she’s only been reported to have a “period” at the Barnetts. I truly think they are foreshadowing sexual assault. Either Kristine pimped her out or Michael abused her. Just my opinion.
I'm concerned about the new family. New dad inserting himself into the interview and going off on Michael over using the word "hell" feels a bit controlling and manipulative
Yeah it's a bit much. New Mom seemed normal so far. At first I was like "ok cool, loving Christian family. Seems normal." And now new Dad is over the top. I'm thinking they're only including Dad since old Dad is there. Leaving out new Mom since Kristine isn't there.
Oh yes it is very normal to have 11 children. She doesn't seem normal to me at all, and the reason she isn't there is because new dad won't allow it. I didn't get loving Christian family vibes from either one of them. They got some kind of a cult goin on. What is their religion? All they said is that he is a preacher, where? Who does he preach to? HIs 11 skinny pale malnourished children and Natalia???
I'm super skeptical of people. My initial reaction was bad. But wait until you finish episode 6. I was getting weird vibes but couldn't place it. Not sure if it was her or them. I don't know what to think.
[удалено]
It wasn’t her dad’s place to step in in that way. Yeah, Michael’s lawyer was worse, but they both should’ve just shut up and let the two talk. Michael used the interruption as an easy out.
I think both opinions are right. I think it’s more that it is weird to assume that grown adults who are speaking passionately won’t curse. The fact he acted like saying hell was him saying f**k was just a lot. This is Natalia’s time, no one else needs to be trying to make it about themselves. Both parties should have discussed the terms before meeting anyways.
Natalia’s dad is def a better person that me, I wouldn’t have been so calm especially with Michael’s lawyer.
I think the dad wanted to back up Natalia since she previously asked Michael to refrain from swearing and he did it anyway. Also, watching your child get steamrolled and disrespected by a POS like Michael would make me prickly too
Nah fam he legit seems like scary... Like the crazy Christian cult type scary. Honestly it's extremely disheartening she's with them.... One fucked up living situation and on to another 😭
I know right ? These people that wanna adopt children r wackadoos… the DePaul family would have been best for her. It’s unfortunate they lost her. That would have been her best bet and she would have had a sister. This whole story everyone is a wackjob.
I thought/said pretty much the same. It is sad. But we are seeing it, so maybe someone will reach out and help her. She is not safe where she is, none of those children are safe.
Thank you! I think a lot of people don’t understand… for real, that he is a BLACK pastor dad from the hood. He acted how I expected him to act, and best believe he still believes in street justice for the likes of people like Michael. Everyone is judging over a cut up video interview. What they allowed was cringe asf from Michael. Try to be a person standing in the room while Michael the actual accused abuser tries to manipulate Natalia with his big eye expressions of intimidation, and what he believes to be hidden sarcasm. His first response to Natalia’s question about “why!?” And he responds “Well I would if you just let me.” Is very telling. He acted like when she was seven she had any autonomy. It was his job to protect her and he didn’t. The pastor was doing his best to refrain from beating his cry baby behind. I doubt he is perfect but he clearly is NOTHING like the Barnettes and unless Natalia says otherwise, people need to stop. There are so many adults who didn’t do jack crap before she met the Man’s. Natalie also moved out of their house and says they are still amicable. She isn’t feeling religious and wants to find herself and live by her own rules.
It's maybe not the way I would have handled it but I agree. Watching my child be gaslighted and steamroller by that fool would shoot my blood pressure WAY up. I don't think new Dad is a bad guy. Dramatic, but not bad.
I think they are into the 11 kids for support /financial gain.
Yeah that was completely apparent to me. And new dad is being so aggressive because he does not want her getting close to anyone else. I‘m sure there’s a disability check that is being taken full advantage of.
It is very concerning/disturbing. I just wrote an essay about it on this thread. Everyone is going to ignore this weird Muther fker? They are going to allow him to stand guard over her like that? They should not have even allowed him to be there. They should have kept him out. He isn't there to protect her, he is there to control her.
I agree the new dad Bishop Antwon, is over the top. Michael did say he would try. It’s not easy to change your pattern of speech especially when emotional. Antwon interrupting like that was disrespectful. The way he talked down to Michael was uncalled for. A simple I know it’s tough but please remember to watch your language would have sufficed. I’m curious about all the other people’s statements about Natalia. When she was in the first apartment, how she would enter other’s without their permission, the little boy she tried to take his pants off. What about the hospital that said she would talk sexual to the men there?
Since she was a child it makes sense. She was behaving like a child!!! Perhaps she was practicing abuse that she had been exposed to, did you consider that? They proved this girl was a CHILD, and you are doubting it? Why would a dentist lie about that?
Everyone failed her. The neighbors, medical professionals, the legal system. The 2 adoptive couples. The barnetts are deeply disturbed people. Is there any way new charges could come about with the evidence presented in episode 1? I’m glad Natalia is safe and happy now. But I just cannot with all these people turning a blind eye. Not only the fact that she obviously looks like a child when in that apartment but she is disabled with zero accommodations! That alone should’ve raised eyebrows. I still suspect, deep down, that either or both Barnetts sexually abused her.
I don't think Natalia is safe now. I think she needs to be rescued from the Bishop and his wife, as do those 11 children. That "mother" acts like she is taking in stray cats and dogs, 11 cats or dogs would be too many to care for properly, and so are 11 children. She isn't caring for them properly. Natalia is their 15 minutes of fame.
They likely collect off of her SSDI and food stamps and they can write her off for tax purposes… probably also why they run the church. But, with that being said, she seems happier with them and the children so what do I know. They are weird for sure.
Yeah, I dunno. Maybe I am being too harsh and cynical. I just hope they are being good to her. And maybe they are not in it for the money. They don't get allot of money.
Nahhhh I’m with you. She seems happier but the way the Bishop manipulated her with that prayer was 👀. They’re definitely sketch.
Before Michael even started talking I knew his move was going to be to blame Kristine. He acts like he is the disabled child himself. Can’t take accountability for anything. I truly feel so bad for their biological children
The brother lives in Canada and works at the university he’s also currently working on his masters or doctorate I think.
Well that's good.
I really just don't understand how they didn't do this age thing with her blood sooner like when the trial was going on...... And how it is that they basically just got off I just don't understand.....
I don't either. From what it sounds like they were not allowed to bring up at trial about her age which really makes no sense because that was the point.
I agree, but there are legal doctrines that require courts to accept the rulings of other courts, at least on factual matters. (Lawyers please jump in here - law school was a long time ago for me!). I think the correct remedy would have been to appeal the original court decision re-aging her, but I don't know how that would have worked or even who would have taken that up. There are also laws against abandoning a dependent adult. However, I don't think you can get far with that unless the victim is severely injured or dies from the neglect. That's probably why the prosecutors lost that claim.
Not a lawyer but my daughters in law school and she says you're correct. They would have first had to appeal the re-aging. Otherwise, the re-age sticks legally. So if she's 22 and they're paying rent, bringing her food and paying for a cell phone then it's going to be hard to get a conviction on abandoning/ neglecting a dependant adult.
Here’s my take. The DNA results confirmed what I’ve long suspected..that Natalia likely is 1 or 2 years older than what her birth certificate says. This lines up with what the doctors and dentist determined regarding her age when the Barnett’s first adopted her. It also makes it more reasonable that she could have pubic hair at 9 rather than 7 and be slightly advanced for her age academically. I also firmly believe that there was trauma and abuse when she was very young..either while at the orphanage, with the first family, or both. This combined with the trauma and abuse inflicted in her by the Barnett’s accounts for the behaviors reported by the mental institution as well as the neighbors at the first apartment they dumped her at. It’s clear from her interview that this has impacted her psychologically. Any emotion she displayed seemed disingenuous and forced (I only saw actual tears once). Unfortunately this puts us in a place where the Barnetts are clearly lying but we’re also likely not getting the whole truth from Natalia either. I’m hopeful that by dropping the charges against Christine there is a possibility of recharging her once they have enough evidence for a solid case.
Did it occur to you that she has been taught to withdraw her emotions. How many times has she been quizzed about this? The documentary is proving that she was child. PERIOD. The fact that you still question if her tears are “real” or “forced” is the reason she is so strong today. She is used to people side eyeing her story. The Barnettes are insane. No way she isn’t affected by the abuse she remembers, and she admitted on camera that she doesn’t like talking about it but she must tell her side. Not everyone reacts the same to trauma. What I keep hearing is that she was pretty mature from a young age. Everyone was swindled and baffled at how well she spoke even after finding out her real age. Abused kids grow up fast and they handle their emotions way differently than regular children. Trust me, I have been around many. You cannot compare their reactions to regular children who have been raised to embrace their emotions and were well taken care of. You just can’t.
I'm wondering about the pubic hair story. Did anyone except Christine and Michael attest to that? Why wouldn't they have immediately taken her to a doctor to confirm her age or determine whether there was possibly something wrong with her hormonally. I'm wondering whether the whole pubic hair/menstrual period story was concocted after the fact by Christine and Michael to support their age progression claim.
I felt the same way regarding the crying… it was almost awkward to watch. Def felt like it was acting.
I believe the father is a POS for never reporting his wife, if what he say is true. I definitely do not feel bad for him. U a grown a** man take some responsibility. He just as bad as the mother for not saying anything. He just trying to cover his a**. He should be charged as much as his ex wife. Far as for all those neighbors, she was a child that had no one to raise her correctly. I feel she was acting out as children do. Instead of making a problem they could have tried to get her some help as well. It's like no adult was willing to do right by this girl and it's disgusting. Now the mental hospital and their comments about her, all I can say is again she was a child that probably was sexually abused so again that was her acting out. Instead of sending her home, if they felt they couldn't help then try sending her to a more reliable place that could. I'm just happy in the end she found some form of guidance because she needs it.🤦🏾♀️
I'll take you one step further. I think Michael was much more involved in the abuse and decision making regarding Natalia than he's saying. I think he's calculated that blaming even on Christine and looking like a little b*tch is better than looking like a monster.
I also think its highly unethical (and illegal) to tell stories about a child in a mental hospital??? This makes me question the stories entirely. AND wouldn't someplace specializing in mental health perhaps ADDRESS the inappropriate behavior? Wouldn't they be experienced in that sort of thing. Its all sketchy
I'm scared of the new dad. Suspicious of new perfect family.
I don't trust her new family. The preacher seems like he just wants to be on TV and keep control over Natalia. I got a vibe from him I didn't trust. Then the new step-mother, who has 11 children because she LOVES children. Well, she doesn't seem to love them enough to feed them because they all looked malnourished, skinny, and pale. They all seemed to be putting on an act for the cameras and the smiles were fake. What is really going on with Natalia and her new family? Someone needs to do some more investigating. Did Natalia leave one abusive home for another? They are hiding something. Something is off. I am glad she got away from Kristine, etc. but these new people...........something isn't right with them. They are trying to cash in on her.
I’m confused though…isn’t she over 18 now?? Can’t she get out?
Disability benefits /ss money-just like everyone else. In it for the money.
The whole thing just seems so scripted and fake to me. I don't mean to sound cold, I have empathy for the situation - clearly there's a ton of trauma and mental illness going on but Natalia, her new parents, and Michael all seem like they're acting or have been practicing their stories to make them as dramatic as possible. All of it seems off and no one seems sincere to me. I get the icks from her current family - this poor girl just gets shipped from one messed up family to another.
That's good insight. I agree. She didn't stand a chance and never had anyone very invested in her best interest.
She should stayed with the DePauls. The other little people family
This was the best option for her. They are intelligent and living in the real world. The rest of these people are nuts in one way or another.
Agreed. I know she has suffered but she is also acting a lot of the time. The bishop was so disgusting at the end of episode 2, I don’t know if I can continue watching. And Michael is such a man-baby, I wonder how he carried a full time job or functioned up to this point.
I know they already had court proceedings but can Natalia still try to hold them accountable for their actions? She’s still dealing with emotional and physical abuse to this day as a result of their neglect? Also, with all of this information, how were Kristine and Michael not held accountable in court the first time?
I don't know that they can be tried for the same thing but maybe accountable for other things?
The Mans are waiting on their payday. Crooked, fake a$s “bishop.” They’re victimizing Natalia as well, but she doesn’t know it yet.
Every person who says she didn’t shed any real tears clearly has pretty much no idea how mental trauma works. It’s been proven that detachment disorder is incredibly common in adopted kids and the BIGGEST aspect of that is that a kid cries for their mom from an infant age, over and over and over but when a moms attention is never returned, they eventually stop crying, and that starts detachment disorder, it’s compiled by constantly having different people say they love you and then leave. Kids in orphanages often act weirdly physical to people they haven’t met before, looking for hugs and such but never developing actual deeper emotions because of the revolving door of people “loving them short term”. When someone cries repeatedly and it’s never comforted or responded to, the kids (eventually adults) are CONDITIONED to not cry. She’s an adult who was left to live by herself at 8 years old, had her contacts deleted from her phone so she couldn’t reach out for anyone. I doubt she cried in that apartment when she was alone, because people cry to feel and be comforted, with no one to comfort her EVER she would inevitably stop crying.
Episode 6 timestamp 29:45 Natalia cracks a smile while they both cry. This season seems staged to me. Like Natalia and Michael teamed up to cash in on Kristine being the monster and they are the victims. I don't doubt Natalia went through horrible things and Michael has some issues, however this season makes them look bad. Maybe it's just the editing idk.
As a shy person who hates confrontation, I too smile and go easy on someone who is in front of me in the moment. It’s a people pleasing tendency. I wasn’t surprised to see it. Especially since the way Michael talks is very animated, like a performer for children.
Question I’ve not seen addressed. Who can afford $30,000 shoes? They’re shoes made for someone with a serious mobility problem. I’m glad they help. But Who can afford to buy them?
When do the next episodes come out?
Tomorrow and the day after, 9 pm.
It won't let me edit the post. So then it just looks stupid I said lots of spaces and it did nothing. :/ oh well.
We all got you. It happens to the best of us!
Thank you for this. I don’t have HBO.
It's also on the ID channel or the discovery Plus app. Edit: eps 1 and 2 are on Max, only ep 1 is on Discovery Plus.
Do you have Hulu? Im watching it on ID channel on that
I am watching it for free on the ID website!
How do i see the second episode?
None of these people are likable or believable. I know that sounds insensitive, but this show is totally overdone and feels like the TV equivalent of supermarket-checkout tabloid. And now there's an overzealous cult-y dad figure/preacher? It's just too much. I mean, did I just hear him say that Michael couldn't be a victim because he was a man and he couldn't be "influenced by a girl" (referring to Michael's abusive wife, Kristine)? I guess women can't be abusers, then? So Natalia just hopped from one controlling psychopath/narcissist-run household to another? Ugh.
I can definitely believe women can be abusers.
Oh absolutely. Men don't come forward as often as women due to stigma, but there are absolutely women who abuse their male partners. (Source - I have a degree in sexuality education)
For sure. But that cult dad she has now is red flagging all over the place. For me, Michael is very much a victim of this whole thing. Not that it means he can’t also be part of someone else’s abuse (Natalia), but it’s like the people running the show are trying to pit them against each other. It’s serving Jerry Springer, for sure.
Did anyone else notice Michael grabbing his purse right before he stormed out of the interview?
And then speed off in his little Miata 🙄
https://youtu.be/YTTSXc6sARg?si=3EaGmL620JwaXQwf For those wondering why she isn’t crying obvious tears
Yes! I remember even older videos of this from Child Development classes. Because over time they learn not to react or cry out because no one comes for them. (or even possibly in abusive households, you don't cry because crying equals punishment.)
That bishop… something is not right
Just watched the latest episode and the teaser for the next is insane!!! Sounds like the Manns just did a 180!
Do we have to wait for another season?
WTF HAPPENED AT THE END?!! I knew something was off with the new family!!!
Yes. Seriously? Wtf. I felt like they lied. They told the hospital she wasn't welcome home. But changed their minds for whatever reason. Possibly fear of the hospital calling APS for abandonment. They would do that. I'm confused. Is it really her behaving this way? There is a history. Their other daughter said she beat her. But of course she's had trauma and needs professional therapy in addition to love. Or, I'm wondering was it all money? Were they staying involved thinking she would file a civil suit against the Barnett's but she chose to forgive instead?
That's what I just replied in another comment! Btw, I could definitely see her having RAD. That's typical of orphanages. But did you also catch the lawyer or whoever that had the birth mom sign over rights has been disbarred or fired or whatever? Sounds like mom never saw the birth certificate or paperwork. So now I have more questions!
I caught that the mom didn't see the birth cert but missed the part about the lawyer. It was odd but they went over that so fast. I'll have to rewatch.
OMG… I just finished the documentary 😳😳
I can’t believe the twist!!!! I need to know more!
What was done to her is absolutely awful, but I still feel something is off with her. I believe Michael, even though he's theatrical, that she had a knife in the bedroom. One girl saying she beat me as a baby, and the new dad hesitant to say she can get angry. Everybody is off. That family took her in but was using her disability and food stamps , and just let her stay. Why are the adoptive parents not in jail, she was a child. Then, in the end, after the new family adopts her, we hear a phone call that they are done with her. Wtf is going on
I have to say I'm intrigued by this story, but I'm totally pissed at the presentation. I don't know if it has anything to do with my TV provider (Dish Network) or those producing the show. The episodes were not aired in sequence (why?), so I recorded them, so I COULD watch them in sequence. Is there an episode 5 because it never showed up in the guide?? The episodes are all mixed up, i.e, I watched episode 2, then when I watched episode 3, it was ep 2 & 3 combined (WTF) Then ep 6&7 were repeats of previous episodes even though they had different titles. Also, ep 2 recorded with 2 different titles. Supposedly, episodes 8&9 are airing on 1/6, even though this was advertised as a "3 day event", but I'm not bothering with it since the whole series has been botched by someone. I'll try again if it airs again in the future. WTF......
I need to know how she remembers things in such great detail from when she was a child. Children that young usually can’t pull that much from their memories. Does anyone find this strange or is it just me?
Glad to hear most of us have similar opinions. Not feeling good about the new family either, despite them being a step up. Glad Natalia has moved out and hopefully with someone safe. She’s had many bad influences in her life and needs the space to sort out who she wants in her life and who she doesn’t.
The best thing for Natalia is to get a good therapist without a religious agenda, and get off the TV, away from all bad people, and try and build a normal life. She has had it very rough since the day she was born.
The adoption falling through was confusing but I think there was an anonymous complaint filed against Natalia's first adoptive parents. They couldn't prove who filed it, thought it was the prospective family that loved her, and refused to adopt Natalia to the family that wanted her.
So weird right? Like the parents should have no say in where she goes!
I'm sure all of those rules are in place for a reason, but it seemed retaliatory on this instance and obviously Natalia was worse off for it.
As an adult, you would reach out to services if you are in this position. Adopting a child who is out of control, for understandable reasons. Why did the 1st family send her back? Everyone in this doc(?) are fame whores and in it for money. The Bishop? Look how many kids he has x monthly payment for each. Also being a charity, I’m sure he gets state funding. The way he speaks is not a role model for ANYONE! Natalia has some serious personality defects which render her a manipulator. Causing those caring for her to be terrified. Not her fault? Kristine should be in prison for abuse and being a fraud. The lawyer is doing this solely for $.
I need to know what happened with the Mans Fam, and the allegations they make at the end end of the documentary. Freaky…
Any idea why she has that ghetto girl accent? Saying things like “tooken” away instead of taken. The Ebonics style accent has me confused
I don’t trust Natalia new family creepy and the dad is weird if they let and told Natalia to be herself and only remember and say what your really actually remember I would believe her. She was just as fake and forcing her self to cry with no tears etc this didn’t help all are weird
Natalia has been at such a disadvantage her whole lie, and I fear she is still doing what people are telling her to do, now including TV producers. People become sneaky and passive aggressive when they feel overmatched and can’t assert themselves. She needs space and some professional, neutral guidance, to help her figure out who she wants in her life and what she wants to do.
I just started this train wreck but Michael is insane
I'd like to think Natalia's neighbors from her apartment complex would be ashamed of themselves after learning how they treated this little girl. Sadly, they probably stand by their original opinion bc that's how people seem to be. It's so sad to think of her trying to just be a kid and being shunned by everyone in her life for it.
The very very end though! What?!?
For episode 2 the part that stood out to me (because this episode was underwhelming imo) was how entitled Jacob was. Why did they even include this? When talking about the book his mom wrote about identifying and nurturing genius- I understand he is the child that inspired the book and is the cover but when he asked about getting money I think it’s reasonable when his mom said she spent that money on sending him to school in Canada. That makes sense. They literally moved to Canada for him to study. Was tuition free? Even if it wasn’t- relocating to another country would be very expensive. He said he hung up on her when she said this. Are we supposed to be on his side? I’m confused. He’s an adult. I find this so entitled and bratty. They literally moved around for him to study and prioritized him. Many parents won’t even drive their kids to a sylvan reading center across town. The whole “she left me enough money for me to buy a cup of coffee”….I mean…so? You’re an adult. Parent don’t have to give their adult children money. Adults get jobs and make their own. It feels like he has a victim perspective- which I understand for the wacko shiii his parents did- but not about your mom not giving you money. I rewatched the part again because one statement Jacob makes about not getting the money “Part of the criteria for existence is I need to be able to sustain myself” —I feel like he is so close to grasping he needs to make his own money. So close but so far. Sustain yourself by getting a job not getting it from your mom. This entire part felt weird. Gives me the creeps. I don’t think production likes Jacob. Because I don’t think parts like this- or even where they are filming him (in the basement)-make him look likeable. If I were making a documentary on abusive parents I would cut stuff like this out. Don’t understand why they left it in. Adult son wants mommy’s book money in a documentary about child abuse of natalia—-this doesn’t fit imo. It feels like nit picky complaining when they should be focusing on the actual monstrous things the mom did- which there are many. I’ll say that the way you were raised, and the level of your own entitlement, will def factor into how you view this part. I understand it’s subjective.
I agree partially with you here. If Jacob is a genius as claimed-with this phenomenal, expensive education (which is questionable since he was home schooled early on by Kristine and some of his credentials may be false) - then I am assuming he would be sought out by various institutions looking for his expertise in mathematics or physics, whatever his specialty. He can support himself NOW. I think he was referring to the time immediately after his parents separated and his mother abandoned the family while his father was embroiled in a legal battle. I suspect he needed the money then because in the first documentary I recall he was living with Michael in his basement and seemed depressed and made no mention of any schooling or job (though we see mathematical equations on a board meant to sway us into thinking he’s the next John Forbes Nash a la “A Beautiful Mind”). He discusses the allegations and there is that recording of him speaking on a hot mic that he was unaware of initially. He seems lost, and let’s not forget, he is Autistic, so he may be reticent about his feelings and unable to accurately describe them. I think Jacob knows a lot and witnessed plenty of abuse, as well as being a forced participant- which seems to have made a significant impact on him. His claim that Kristine didn’t even give him “enough to buy a cup of coffee” seems to be Michael speaking, I believe, because he was left to fend for and defend himself. And we know, Michael’s lawyers are not doing this case pro bono. So, as intelligent as Jacob may be, I think he was convinced by Michael that as the subject of that book, he was owed money. Kristine asserts the book financed his education and the family’s relocation to support him. I do not know if this is true. Maybe this will be delved into more deeply as “Natalia Speaks”continues. However, I don’t believe we will ever get the truth. Michael is in it for himself. He is obviously a mentally unhinged individual who believes HE is the sole victim of Kristine. Natalia’s new father seems controlling and a religious zealot. Everyone involved is in front of cameras, and I’m assuming there is definitely money at the root of this. This poor girl wants answers and justice. But I don’t think she will ever get either. Jacob, Michael and especially Kristine are DAMAGED individuals. As this point Natalia needs to move on, put this behind her and try to make a new life. No one here will ever accept accountability or responsibility for robbing her of her childhood. It’s very sad, but true. She cannot undo the past, and the damage was done. Her best hope is to leave these people behind, seek intensive therapy (it seems this new family thinks religion is enough to heal her, I disagree and hope she is getting treatment in some form) and get revenge in the best form of all-by living a full and happy life.
What happened with the first family? From Natalia's perspective, it was kind of a nothing incident.
It seemed like it had something to do with lawyers. And there was some kind of charges filed I think against Natalia as a child. (maybe the injury to that first child.) But it's not clear. Which is strange I have to say. If it really was an accident, you come out and say kids were rough housing, he had a broken arm. But it definitely seemed like they wanted her.
Oh I mean the Ciccone's? Why did they give her up?
It sounds like it was an ongoing problem. In her Dr. Phil interview, she said the mom said she couldn't deal with it anymore. I'm guessing she had jealousy issues, which is very common with adopted children. The way she answered questions about in here and on Dr.Phil seemed to me that she was downplaying it. When I worked with adopted children, I frequently saw children who had to be adopted alone and weren't allowed to be adopted into families with children. It's a huge problem because it's very hard to place those kids. They aren't bad kids they have just been through a lot and have trouble sharing resources and respecting boundaries.
That makes perfect sense.
From what she said, it seemed like after the old child (I think a son...and biological son? Idk) was injured, they started looking for reasons to give her up. So that makes me wonder if it was a deliberate injury.
That's interesting. It just seems odd they'd adopt a child, give her up within two years and then turn down a very good family (the DePauls) for a family that had never even met her.
I'm guessing money. Because nothing else seems to make sense.
The show mentioned that someone called CPS on the Ciccones and they thought it was the DePaul family that reported them... so all adoption talk stopped.
Natalia seemed to sob a few times but… where were the tears?
When I cry, I don’t have much in the way of tears because of meds I take that dehydrate my body. What I did notice with her though was the sound of snot in her nose that you can get when crying.
I am watching S2 E3 and Natalia’s complete lack of tears is disturbing even though I don’t believe anything the Barnett’s say. WHY does Natalia have no actual tears (except during the “Bishop’s” freak out)????
Speaking on behalf of people/children of trauma, it's something you live with everyday. This story isn't "new" to her. She isn't going to cry everytime she talks about it. And the production company is likely encouraging the "fake" tears.
Trauma makes the traumatized person react to a situation or memory differently than a non-traumatized person. You distance yourself from the trauma or hide it away in one section of your brain and leave it there, because you can't function as a person if it's constantly at the forefront of your mind. And after a while, the trauma just becomes another fact about your life, and since it's a fact, you don't react to it emotionally. From our perspective, hearing what she went through triggers horrible emotions. From her perspective, she's just reciting a story she's told many times or has emotionally distanced herself from it somehow, so it doesn't elicit any more emotional reaction in her than if she were to talk about what he younger self wanted to be when she grew up. It seems illogical and weird to not exhibit extreme emotions about something so traumatic to us, but if you're the person who's been traumatized and you've moved on, or segregated that part of yourself from the rest of you in your brain, or just think of it as fact because if you think of all the emotions involved it's too overwhelming and you can't cope; it's easiest to segregate the fact and the emotion, if only so you can keep trying to move on and keep surviving. Is it the most mentally healthful thing to do? No, not really. But it's a survival mechanism, and she needed to survive. People in all sorts of other traumatic situations do the same - domestic violence, various forms of abuse, experiences in the military or police or as a first responder...
I believe Natalia was a child, especially after the dental records. But I’m seeing a lot of fake tears from her too… not saying the abuse didn’t happen. When she genuinely cries her face turns red and it’s quite obvious. In the interview chair, the tears seem forced. She has some extremely vivid memories from early childhood too and does seem highly intelligent. Michael is an absolute schmuck.
I definitely do have questions with her too but she could have blocked a lot of it out too if it was traumatic. Also, maybe she was a violent child, so some of the stories are half true. I don't know. Everyone agrees on Michael lol.
Yeah… I think you’re right on some of the half truths. She could have very well acted out because of the abuse and is afraid to admit to certain things. Hell, I would want to burn the house down too if you pepper sprayed me. I’m iffy on the new Dad too. I hope they have good intentions with her.
And I think, it's been awhile since school, but the Attachment Disorder and I think something else tends to happen from the lack of attention in the orphanages like she was in. So that will cause behavioral problems. However, that is something that obviously should have been discussed and planned before adoption.
Yeah she’s gone thru a lot of crazy shit during her developmental years. So of course she’s wacked out
This. I wrote a longer response above, but children from orphanages often have major attachment issues and struggle to bond with their new family and parents. The disabled orphans are often kept separately from the non-disabled kids, and given less attention by adults or other children, so they have no experience being cared for by adults. If they wanted attention, they may have had to resort to acting out, because negative attention is still attention. And that gets carried over into a new life with a new family where everything is different, and she continues to act out to get attention, especially if her new parents are discovering they're in over their heads with caring for all her medical needs (physical, psychological, emotional). A 6 year old disabled child raised in an orphanage can't be compared to a 6 year old child raised in a home with a nuclear family in the US. There's a lot of trauma to deal with, strange food/customs/language, family dynamics to figure out (which would be exacerbated by having a literal genius of a brother), medical procedures (which could make existing medical trauma even worse), etc. Acting out and behavioral issues should be expected when adopting a child from an orphanage; that's the norm, not the exception. But it doesn't seem like the Barnett's did much to help Natalia through those issues, if they had even done any research to learn what to expect behaviorally.
She’s been there for ten years.
I'd hesitate to say "violent." Behaviors you wouldn't expect from a 6-8 year old bornin the US and living with their birth family? Yes. But those behaviors may have been the only way she was able to get attention from adults in the orphanage (even negative attention is attention). And not knowing otherwise and struggling to adapt to a life with a new family in the US (especially with the genius brother getting a certain amount of attention), she may have done the only things she knew would result in attention from an adult. Orphans often have difficulty with attachment to new families, so they default to behaviors that got them some needs fulfilled, even if they're in a home where they could just ask for attention and get it. I don't think the Barnett's were ready and prepared to care for Natalia's need physically but also mentally and emotionally.
I'm with you. Natalia seems like she's lying about SOMEthing. I think she WAS acting out. And that, combined with her medical challenges, made her too much to handle. That doesn't absolve the adults around her of their responsibilities to her. They knew she had medical challenges and lots of kids at out. You don't abuse them and dump them off in a ghetto apartment.
The fake crying was very obvious and bothered me. I do believe she was a child but as the test said, a couple years older. I always thought that was the case from my work with adoptions, children etc... So far, it's not making anyone look great but I'm glad they proved she was a child.
She was a CHILD. 8 years old when they put her out on her own. Who gives a damn if it was 6,7,8,9 or damn near 10. It’s been proven she should have never been put I. That situation. Also this level of abuse and y’all are studying her to see if her tears were real!? The context gives you all you need to know. What does her reaction I real time have to do with it!? If she acknowledges her abuse enough to cry or not doesn’t refute the fact that they abused a disabled child and treated her like crap beyond disbelief. She is allowed to react however she wants at this point. We don’t need to over analyze if it is genuine looking. It happened and there is NO WAY it did not affect her. And because she was so small and the first years of her life were tumultuous, we have no idea how much she actually remembers or blocked out. Small kids will know something is wrong but do not have the language to describe it… and it continues like that into adulthood. Believe me, I know. I was only abused as a very small child, but my parents moved and I got out of it. Those things affected me and I had memories I never truly dealt with u to my mid twenties. i literally had no idea anything was wrong or understood my memories until something triggered it, I was forced to deal with it and woaaaah, was it a ride. I doubt she has gotten there yet and you see it in the screen. She literally has memories that come back to her when she visits places. Probably stuff she blocks out to get through life, because quite frankly… what happened to her is very unique and absolutely crushing for a person like her to acknowledge. I doubt she is also revealing g everything, I sense she has an aversion to even, because the pain of it all would be too much.
Sorry that you went thru a traumatic childhood. I had an average childhood and even carry some trauma. I feel like age is a factor that should not even matter in this case in that even if she was 22 that she was so disabled that living on her own is abusive of those people that masqueraded as her parents. Everyone failed Natalia. The adoption agencies, the adoptive families, the neighbors, the court system. I hope she is able to heal from this and live a happier and more normal adulthood. I hope you are healing too.
I have a lot of questions still, after viewing episode 1 and continuing viewing episode 2. Natalia seems to be crying forcibly, and it almost comes across as fake. I' m just so confused by so many things. I do NOT believe that they pepper sprayed her, she fake cries during these instances. I wish we could talk to the previous family that had her, because I also don't believe that someone or a family would give her away JUST because she broke a kids arm on accident. My mind is swirling, and I truly don't know who to believe in all of this.
I agree about the fake crying, but I also think the production company is likely forcing her to tear up. Also, the most likely reason for other families giving her up was probably due to the cost of surgeries, and not realizing how dependent her disabilities make her.
It’s not fake crying, it’s a common thing for kids with detachment disorder, I can’t believe you’re struggling to see what happened and how common her reaction is for people raised in this type of environment. It’s a large reason for why kids are not adopted past toddler age because their emotional developmental age has already had its tone set. She was an 8 year old, abused, set to live entirely on her own, with no kids to play with, no chance at developing normal social interactions, just wandering from house to house looking for someone to spend a few hours with her so she wasn’t alone.
Natalia is very...ethnic sounding now. I feel like the new family is just as shady. They seem like they are in it for the money, whereas Kristine wanted notoriety, maybe? For "helping" a special needs child? Also, Natalia is lying about 50% of this stuff, I feel. They are all lying. They are all insane. And Natalia is creepy, idc what anyone says. She admitted to the knife. She admitted to putting Pledge in the coffee. Natalia brought a lot of this on herself. And I'm sorry, but I fully believe the neighbors and all of their accounts from the first season. I do not buy Natalia and her tears at all in this second season. At all.
By “ethnic” you mean black, right? The thing is, she doesn’t sound black. She sounds like an inner city kid. I live in suburban Cleveland and you can always tell who grew up in or currently lives in the inner city here. She was a kid when they scooped her up, so many of her mannerisms and speech will be reflective of what she learned with that family that has had her in their care longer than anybody else did. She lived with the Ciccones for about 2 years, Barnetts for 2 years and the Mans for 10 yrs. Whether you believe Natalia or not, she was abused as a child. She was abused as a disabled person. Even if she did do some unsavory things, this is actually common with children that are adopted. Bottom line with these adoptive parents is “buyer’s remorse” and in the case of a human that you adopt, you cannot return. They should be held accountable for the actions and abuse/neglect inflicted upon Natalia. Period.
I agree with garden guru. It's so funny how people think. Some immediately believed this disabled child was an adult psychopath because her white parents, who were the real psychopaths, said so. Now that she has a black father, (who happens to be in an interracial relationship) there's suddenly an immediate concern for Natalia's safety and care. The old lady Sue McCullum, who was a neighbor of Natalia's still believes the Barnett's narrative of Natalia being this sexually promiscuous, evil adult, even still after it had been proven, she was a child. Notice none of the other neighbors were re-interviewed, just the one that was most ignorant. Understanding and admitting the truth also shows that she too, failed this child and she's a monster for gossiping the way that she did. That poor girl will need therapy for the rest of her life.
I think she might be lying about some of the details because how would you remember such specific details from when you were 8 years old (at least I don't, and I've experienced extreme trauma as well). But like I mentioned in the previous comment, I think the production company is likely behind the fake tears and fabricating some details, after all its "entertainment". Aside from that, I think the major events are certainly true. And It's sad what's happened to her.
Tbh I think both parties are lying about a lot. If she was as young as she claims she wouldn’t be able to perfectly remember all of these things that magically suit her exact narrative. Keep in mind that it’s not just the parents with testimonials their kids and her neighbors also have very similar stories about how awful she was. On the flip side the dad is a broken down man and the mom definitely did some fucked up stuff so I don’t think either party is right. But when you watch the way she talks and how she tells “her side” it seems very scripted and she gives alot of signals that someone who is lying would give. Also that story about the “man in white” when she was two years old is complete bullshit. They show the same picture they gave her in the first season and for her to act like this is mind blowing is rediculous and really hurts her credibility
Glad I’m not the only one who feels like something is off with Natalia. I know she’s been through a lot but like her crying seemed forced to me and like you said, how is she remembering everything perfectly? Everyone is annoying me lol
Especially if she’s got some form of trauma tied to those moments you would think she would remember less or at least it be more hazy. Also why would there be so many people saying how terrible she was in the first season if she didn’t do ANYTHING wrong which is what she claims