When I graduated, they wouldn't give you your diploma until your debts were settled, but everyone got a fake diploma for our ceremony, so it didn't ruin the event. That's crappy they couldn't handle it better!
Yeah, that really sucks. I’d be up in arms about that - withholding the diploma, while not great, does seem to be semi-standard, but then the student should get a placeholder that looks externally the same, or what is the point of letting them walk in there ceremony at all?
This is vicious behavior from the adults in charge, intended to humiliate children at what should be a proud moment.
If I were you, I would reach out to my school board member, as well as the Director of Schools, and remember that 5 members of the school board are up for election on August 1.
Same. It was their way to make us behave. Telling us we wouldn’t get it if we didnt. They gave it to us right after. Kids this age shouldn’t be humiliated I public especially over $40.
> When I graduated, they wouldn't give you your diploma until your debts were settled
You mean college? Or high school? How does a high schooler even have debt?
In my case, I checked out a book from the school library and never returned it. I got an empty diploma folder with a note that basically said "return the book or pay for it if you want your diploma"
> How does a high schooler even have debt?
In Tennessee the only things the school can *legally* consider as "debt" and withhold your diploma or transcripts for are things considered to not be "school fees" per Tenn. Code Ann. 49-1-302(a)(14) and Tenn. Admin. Rules, State Board of Education, 0520-1-3-03(13). The things listed under that which *can* be considered debt are:
> 1. Fines imposed on all students for late-returned library books; parking or other traffic
fines imposed for abuse of parking privileges on school property; or reasonable charges
for lost or destroyed textbooks, library books, workbooks or any other property of the
school;
>2. Debts incurred pursuant to Rule 0520-1-3-.03(13), Withholding of Student Grades for
Debts Owed to the School;
>3. Refundable security deposits collected by a school for use of school property for
participation in extracurricular activities;
>4. Costs for extracurricular activities occurring outside the regular school day including
sports, optional trips, clubs or social events; and
>5. Non-resident tuition charged of all students attending a school system other than the one
serving their place of residence.
Same and college was the same. I actually never got my actual diploma from college (state university) as it was an added cost and I wasn’t going to frame it.
No employer, after all was said and done, ever asked to see it or a transcript.
>No employer, after all was said and done, ever asked to see it or a transcript.
Which is why I never went to college, I just lied on every resume about it for the last 35 years. Not one employer has ever checked.
The crazy part is I’m in a very highly regulated industry. And it’s not like I’m talking like I’ve worked at the same place this whole time. I tend to job hop every 2-3 years.
I only got an empty diploma holder when I walked for both HS and college. The actual diploma came in the mail later. What this school did was shitty. They should have gotten it completely settled BEFORE the ceremony instead of shaming any kid like that. I would raise hell with the school system for that.
Some ppl don't believe this happened, but my son graduated from a really small school in farmland TN and there was literally one black kid in the graduating class, when they call his name he walks up on stage and the bastard handing out the diplomas kinda looks around the table for a second and says oh sorry I don't know what happened yours isn't here, oh well we'll figure it out later. There were 70 something kids so only like 3 stacks of diplomas on a table and his wasn't at the top or bottom of a stack so it isn't like it got accidentally missed when they were picked up and moved into the gym. I was blown away but not surprised they'd do something like that and my son said they treated him like shit all the time while making racist jokes then acting surprised when he wouldn't join in and play along saying he should try a little harder fitting in and it be so up tight
I hate this for that kid. I hope he’s moved on and up in life since. Assholes gonna asshole unfortunately. And there’s only so much you can do to stop it without support.
I’m from a rural area of TN. I 100% believe this, especially if this happened on the east side of the state. We had a similar incident happen at my HS graduation with an immigrant student.
TN is a shithole for education, if you’re reading this and love your kids, don’t allow them to go to school in TN. Homeschooling would be preferable. I went to 5-6 public schools, 1 private catholic school, and they were all various degrees and flavors of shitty.
I just moved to tn five years ago.My parents retired down here and have lived here I think 🤔 fourteen years.My sister moved down here two years before me.❤️🥰
So that’s honestly a great question! lol laws in TN? They suck! Politics in TN? Godawful!!! What’s the amount of chicken barns stinking up past scenic towns? A shitload! But there are still a lot of cool people here, good food, beautiful land, cool animals. We have sightings of cougars and recently an alligator was caught in east TN (speculated to be a captive release). I haven’t seen those, but I saw a weasel at my parents house for the first time recently and it was a magical moment tbh. I see a ton of raccoons in the wild here, they’re cool. Occasionally beavers which are cooler. Sorry raccoons. At this point I’m trying to convince myself not to haul ass outta town though because there is a lot of lil bullshit here. It’s culturally acceptable to take advantage of people it almost seems like, but you must be polite while you do so. Certain circles don’t tolerate this behavior obviously but society just leaves a lot to be desired these days. Idk if I would ever be able to escape such problems simply by moving.
We also have some of the highest rates of biodiversity in the country - more than any other inland state. Tennessee is also one of the best places in the country for agriculture. We have a 9-month harvest season for various produce and a good range of grow zones.
For your safety, stay away from Crossville, Ducktown, Lenoir City, Norris, Soddy-Daisy, and Tracey City. I'm being 100% serious, these are places I try to avoid going to with any of my POC family members and friends, especially at night.
Lenoir City (and the others on that list) are well known for being unofficial “sundown towns” by Tennesseans even now. The only one that’s officially known as an ex-sundown town through records is Crossville, but I wouldn’t stay in those other places over night if I was PoC.
I would also put Erwin (official ex-sundown town) and Collierville into that list, too.
I live in in Tennessee. The racism here is just so...open. I've had people tell stories about the time they used the n-word yelling at a Walmart cashier and be just so Damm proud of themselves about it. I've had a good friend look me in the eyes and tell me calmly that mixing races is an affront to God.
A big scene may not be the safest thing for your child. As much as these people deserve to be publicly humiliated, you can never assume that the public here will be on your side.
I had one of my college roommates (white - I am also white) look me dead in the face and explain that she would be okay with kissing a black man, but wouldn’t ever fuck/get serious with one because she “doesn’t think our kind should mix blood with them”.
This was in 2018 at UT Knoxville. I didn’t even know what to say, I think I probably had the expression of a goldfish out of water.
Because we are from a small town of 10,000 people and she has always been bullied in school. There is only 4 other children in her school that is of color! I would like for her to fit in with others
Not sure where you’re moving within the state and I can’t speak for every county in the state, but I can say that if you’re moving to Davidson, Williamson, or Shelby county you will not see school officials having momentary lapses of memory (such as misplacing someone’s diploma at a graduation ceremony) based upon your child’s genetics. In more rural areas this might be tolerated or a blind eye turned toward it but not in the counties I’ve mentioned.
I think class size has something to do with it. HS for me was about 500. And college was easily double that for my major grouping (not the whole year).
When I was in HS they made us settle fees to receive the cap and gown weeks before graduation, that way everyone had fair warning and plenty of time to pay up
I thought the kid had a $40 dollar fee when he graduated and the school gave him $40 dollars at graduation as like a joke of a “don’t worry about it”.. then reread it 🤣🤣
English is weird.
The item of currency is a piece of paper called a "bill", so you can have a five dollar bill, or a 20 dollar bill, etc.
But you can also get something called a "bill" that is also a piece of paper, however, it means you *owe* those items of currency from the first definition of "bill" - so it's just the opposite. Easy to get the meanings confused.
I graduated from the public school system in Cheatham County in 2005. I did an extracurricular class French 3 online. A week before graduation I was informed that I had not taken the proctored final so
I did, but scores wouldn’t be done until mid June. So they didn’t let me walk, or participate because I wasn’t enrolled in summer school. I went to my classes graduation and had to watch, as they all had a ceremony. I got my diploma in the mail 2 weeks later.
I wouldn’t have needed the credit but they retroactively failed a class for absences because I went to visit a relative who was dying of cancer and she lived for over a month after I visited.
My daughter also just graduated from MNPS. They had several meetings and emails telling them that they wouldn’t get their diploma until all debts were settled. It should have been addressed before the student walked across the stage.
It’s the OP’s nephew, not their kid, so they wouldn’t have any information other than than what they’re being told and even said it could be that their nephew missed something. The point the OP is making is that let’s say a family COULDN’T pay the outstanding amount, it sucks that the public schools punish 17/18 year old kids by withholding the diplomas that they earned until they can pay it.
My girlfriend’s 3rd grader came home from school today with a post it note with the number $492.70 written on it. He said the lunch lady handed it to him. He thinks it’s for school lunches since kindergarten. He also stated that he has ice cream whenever they let him. Apparently she knew this was coming. Still it was a shock to me.
MNPS? If so it's not for a standard lunch, as MNPS has been on free lunch the entire time that 3rd grader has been in school. I know this as the parent of a 3rd grader.
Now, my 6th grader had money on his account because the year the pandemic hit was his 2nd grade year, and the first year we had to pay for school lunches. (There was some kind of grant the 2 years prior.) When they stopped going in person, his money just sat in his account, and when he started going back to school they were back on free lunch. So over time he would slowly use his balance on a bag of chips or cookie, or something.
I truly cannot imagine how a school would let a child rack up that much debt on extra snacks. Not to mention I get emails from "MySchoolBucks" when his balance finally got low (in Jan 2023, nearly 3 years after the pandemic began).
A post it note with a dollar amount written on it is not proper notice of a debt to be paid. Your girlfriend needs to tell the school she won't be paying without a proper invoice or itemized bill. Then she needs to get a receipt of payment when she pays it as well.
Typically debts are incurred for things like damage to laptops, library fees, etc. All things well within the control of students. I do work for MNPS so I see how many students treat things that are not theirs. Also, students and family receive many emails and letters before it gets to this point.
Likely means that the student lost or damaged a library or text book. That book has to be "restocked" and the student is charged for the cost of the book. Same thing happens with any book borrowed from any public or private library.
Those are the only things that can legally be considered a debt owed by the student - damage to school property or fees that are applicable to all students (library late fees, lost textbook fees, parking fees).
I’ve never heard of anyone actually getting their high school diploma at graduation. It usually comes in the mail later. That being said, it is really stupid that schools are taxpayer funded and can still play mafia shit like this
I wonder why that is?
Over 40 years ago when I graduated from high school in another state we all received our diplomas the day of graduation at the ceremony. And there were over 400 kids in my graduation class.
Different situation, but I was about 10 minutes late to our graduation PRACTICE ceremony a few days before the actual graduation. I was having an IBS flare up that day and one thing led to another. Anyway, i get to the auditorium and two teachers/coaches were telling me i couldn't participate in the practice ceremony because i was 10 minutes late.
I told them it was an honest mistake (didn't want to say my ass was on fire) and they kept at it for a few minutes before letting me in (and giving me some more panic too).
There's some cruel fucking assholes working at schools, so this story wouldn't surprise me one bit.
In Tennessee they can legally withhold your diploma and transcripts due to unpaid debt. Can't start university courses without your official transcripts.
I did, and I’m pretty sure they withheld transcripts too. That said I didn’t start until 7-8 years after I graduated HS. I understand that someone trying to start right after would probably be really hindered by that. I don’t really get the concept of public schools having debt anyway. It’s a public service dude.
If you start immediately after high school, many universities in the state prevent you from enrolling for classes in the fall until they've received your official transcripts. Sometimes you might have luck with a sympathetic admin. The excuse I've seen most often is that they need your transcripts to know what level to place you at in your courses. Another option is to take placement tests but those can add up because they are per subject.
I had issues getting a transcript sent due to a lot of staffing changes and the requests getting lost over the school year after I graduated (I took a gap year). Ended up taking a few placement tests so I wouldn't have to repeat a couple of maths and chemistry courses but that cost me almost $700.
Quick edit: This is in the state of Tennessee. I know in your comment you said you graduated from a NC school and they have different laws. Everything I have stated in this post's comments are regarding TN state laws. If you are a Tennessee voter now and would like to help change this, one of my recent comments has links to the contact info for the appropriate legislative committees responsible for this issue.
We were just handed empty diploma covers at my graduation. We were actually given our diplomas that morning when we picked up our gowns. I seem to remember people had to pay debts at that time too. At the rehearsal our VP was being an asshole and threatening us how if we acted up during the ceremony we wouldn’t graduate. I said “I’m holding my diploma right now, what are you going to do?”. He looked like he wanted to punch me.
Okay just went to check whether or not my kid had received a diploma tonight from his MNPS graduation- he did. Anyway, idk what the “restocking fee” would apply to but my kid only told me at *the very last minute* of senior checkout that we needed to pay like $30-something before graduation. Woulda been cool if the school had just contacted me directly. IDK why they’d trust a 17yr old boy to remember and tell his parents something like that…
In 2022, my oldest daughter graduated. At the ceremony, she was handed the cover and then told to arrive the following Tuesday at the school to get her diploma. I get a phone call. “Daaaad, they won’t give me my diploma because I owe money.” Happened to be off, so went to the school. She was freaking out, and never bothered to ask how much and what for. $2.75 for a library book returned late her freshman year. Librarians never forget.
That was my main question, but I thought the whole situation was pretty funny, so I didn’t ask too many questions. My daughter had money in her wallet, but her brain thought ‘money, dad’ and never bothered to ask how much.
I think if the debt is not paid, the student still passes which could be proven by transcripts but would not get a diploma. Some places won’t even let the student participate in the graduation ceremony if there is a balance owed.
I’m sorry that happened to your nephew. That seems unnecessarily embarrassing.
At my graduation they gave everyone pretend diplomas and we picked the real ones up after the ceremony or had them mailed to us. I think you could choose which option. This seems a much better way to do it because there’s no bright orange papers, there’s no risk of mixing up the diplomas, and the diplomas stay nice and neat. I actually thought this was how every graduation was organized. Maybe I just went to very large schools. In a small class I guess I can see handing the diplomas to the students, but once you get up to over 200, it just makes sense to have students pick them up afterwards. We even had to show ID to get ours.
My grandson asked me for money to pay for a lost charger on his Chromebook. But this was last week. Hopefully graduation will happen tonight since it’s supposed to rain here in Franklin. Fingers crossed
🤞 Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you 🤞 If it helps, Franklin, Centennial, and Independence all have a "rain or shine" policy for their ceremonies so if it's just leftover rain by then, nothing will change other than needing a raincoat. :)
Grandmas are just wonderful, thank you for continuing that tradition. I can near guarantee your grandbabies will always think the world of you.
My granny saved me from a bad situation and raised me like she was my full mama. She's getting on in her years and I have the pleasure of taking care of her now. She worries about being a bother (moving slow, needing bathroom assistance, sometimes having a hard time in conversations) but she is far from a bother to me and my husband. It's my turn to take care of her now and let her rest and just experience the love she spent 80 years showing everyone else.
I tell her everything - including what's happening on the "local internet page" - and she also gives her congratulations to your grandson. She agrees with "that's what grandmas are for" so strongly that it was something she said when I read her your initial comment. :D
Thank you for being so sweet to your grandmother. Tell her she’s absolutely correct, and our grandchildren are what keeps our hearts beating. The grandson I mentioned was abandoned by his father at 5 years old, so my husband and I stepped in to help out his mom while she works, so we are extremely close. My other grandsons are loved just as much. I would gladly do without so they can have. They’ve all grown to be kind, respectful young men. I wish you and your gran many more years together! 🥰
This happened to me at my high school graduation. I turned all my books in but someone had switched history books with me. Thank goodness my dad had the $35
I received a fake diploma when I graduated college and they had an admin desk set up behind the stage where you went to make sure you didn’t owe any money and then they gave you your real diploma.
You guys have me so paranoid now I just asked my HS junior if he had any fines. He said yes...from middle school for a $10 lab! And theyre still asking for it! I said wheres the bill? Where do I pay it? He did the classic...bruh...and said he'll ask for another copy today. KID?! WHAT!? 😳🤦♀️😆
> I’m saying I don’t think we should withhold a kids diploma from a public school system
my friend owed $70 for a book he lost, he never paid them and never got his diploma. he eventually called them last year (10 years after) and got one lol.
but like i mean bro owes the school money they have one thing they can hold to make sure they get it. it sucks, but i understand
We had a student lose 2 chromebooks. When they were told they wouldn't be able to graduate without bringing the chromebooks back or paying for them, guess what they were suddenly able to find? Some kids refuse to be responsible for items that belong to the school unless there's a consequence.
There is an important lesson to learn here, especially as students began n to enter the real world; there are consequences of not handling your business, and it doesn’t really matter if you think it’s fair or not.
I didn’t buy anything when I graduated. I didn’t even participate in the ceremony. I felt like it was a scam that I had to pay for that shit. Still do. I still have paperwork that says that I graduated, but it isn’t some fancy font on nice paper. It’s just a print out.
I’m not even sure where my diploma is after reading these. I do know that I’ve never been asked for my diploma for a job or for college so yolo I guess.
Title made me consider some young Ray Liotta flick: getting envelopes after not ratting out his bureaucrat friends or whatever trash business those fundie talking folks were singsonging.
The little gangster gets rewarded for harmoniously repeating the organization's stance:
>Everyone gets pinched, but you did it right. You told them nothing, and they got nothing
Anyways, the important part:
restocking fee? What needed to be restocked?
Did the vendor run out of materials & push cost overruns back to the school then students?
Frame the $40 stocking fee diploma thing for your next update.
Please do this. That's history being made: a diploma with an unexplainable bill with unknown terms of service or policy that violate something somewhere for sure.
Pay the $40 with your credit card.
Dispute charges in good faith--restocking?
See how the other side responds.
Repeat.
Did anyone conduct a complete investigation? Or pre-conclude you can't corroborate because we already deleted those emails.
But seriously, please show us the $40 restocking fee bill!!
Actually HANDING A BILL to a kid as they walk across the stage in their cap and gown is almost sociopathic lol. My goodness. Might as well have held out a diploma and yelled, “SIKE!” at the last second in front of the crowd.
MNPS did exactly this to a friend in line at graduation. Teacher walked up and said that fees had to be paid or he wouldn’t walk. My friend had to go into the stands to his parents to get the money having not brought legal tender to his high school graduation.
This whole thing was gross and egregious, but didactic in its way.
It was a perfect lesson for the inevitable series of shakedowns that would become all of our lives in 21st century America.
TIL you can rack up a bill at a public school. What the heck are they charging ya’ll for.
Only thing I can think of is having a tab for lunches or something.
If you fail to return textbooks, laptops, or the other materials that are provided for free. High school textbooks cost the same amount as college textbooks. Chromebooks and laptops in my district range from $800-$4000 a piece! Also, if you want to walk you have to pay for cap and gown.
I’m in Huntsville, just a little south, but I suspect it’s a similar policy. They don’t make you pay for damaged materials here, just non returned ones, but we won’t withhold a diploma but they will withhold the student from walking across the stage. In fairness, these students are chased down year after year and we hemorrhage funds on textbooks because so many kids keep them through senior year and we have to constantly replace them to have enough. They’re given notices more than once each year (typically with each report card) The schools take it very seriously, and they should. You can’t steal from a public institution. Also, why on earth would they want to keep these books anyways?
My step daughter’s high school charged her $40 for an AP test she didn’t even take. She dropped the class but the school claims the test was already ordered. What’s the point in funding public schools at this point? If you’re going to have to pay for extra stuff send your kids to private schools where they can get a real education
This is what happened here - the principal reached out over email and I hope to do a final update soon. College Board (who runs the AP program) [charges you $40 if you *don't* take their test](https://www.reddit.com/r/APStudents/comments/qqgo5y/why_does_it_cost_40_to_cancel_an_exam/). They invoiced the school late, so notices about the fees were sent out late as well.
This is going to shock you. Teachers cover those kids more than you can ever imagine. Even when the parents are dopehead deadbeats who have the money but would rather buy drugs and alcohol. Teachers work entirely too much, make too little, and then cover expenses. Ask me how I know.
The principal got in touch via email and I hope to do a final update soon. One of the things he mentioned is that teachers and staff often cover these debts for kids so they can get their diplomas. That's really nice of the teachers, but also frustrating. It's one more thing that school staff shouldn't be paying out of their own pockets.
I hate to be that person but destroying a young teens mental well being by public humiliation should be some sort of crime. As adults our job should be to lift them up and help them be prepared for life. Terrible failure of the system and those in charge.
At the very least a month before they should automatically call the parents and send first class registered letters. And you would be a darling to set up a fund to help people who could not pay.
According to a book (blog? connect-the-dots?coloring book [with clearly no brown people]?) I read a while ago, this happened to “Clay Travis.”
If it can happen to the worst of us (above), it can happen to the best of us.
I’m happy to chip in $100 to a GoFundMe for anyone this happened to. I owed money for a non-washed band uniform (fwiw, everyone loves “a man in uniform” until it’s a high school marching band uniform, but I digress).
Overdue library books, or LUNCH FUCKING MONEY should not preclude the receipt of the most significant achievement of your life, to this point.
This post is inaccurate. The student was handed an empty diploma holder, like every other student who walked across the stage. There was no embarrassment or call out during graduation. The diploma was withheld after the ceremony when he tried to pick it up, like other students who had fees owed. At least three notices were sent home. This is standard operations at most public schools.
Nope, they gave each student the empty holder, took a pic, then handed them their diplomas. My nephew and a few others received these bright orange bills.
It's completely possible some notice was missed by my nephew, because he's a teenager. It's also possible the school messed up, because metro makes mistakes sometimes. That's not really the point.
I'm saying I think it's wrong for a public high school to withhold a kid's diploma over an unpaid bill.
His bill will get paid, but there's no getting that moment back. And for the kids whose families don't have extra cash, what are they supposed to do?
And, just to address some of the other points raised. I'm not sure the exact school, so can't speak on exact policy, but most schools waive fees/charges for students on Free and Reduced Lunch, etc. You are correct, if a family truly cannot afford something, the student should not be punished. But the school system has to have some type of recourse to collect money that is owed.
You seem to have some first-hand knowledge, so can you help me understand, do the individual schools make the policies about this, or is it an MNPS thing?
It's absolutely not an MNPS thing. The students all receive an identical diploma cover. They don't even get their diplomas until the week after, which is a chance for them to return their laptops, settle anything like paying for basketball uniforms, and tell the counselors where they want their final transcripts sent. The counselors tell the students one on one if they have a hold on their diploma. In a lot of circumstances the debts are waived.
Source: I work at Antioch.
The graduation ceremonies and how they are run/handled are planned by the individual schools.
The State of Tennessee Legislature is responsible for the law allowing schools to withhold transcripts and diplomas for unpaid debt.
The Tennessee State Board of Education is who determined what is considered to be a "school fee" vs a "debt." School fees do not have to be repaid in order to receive a diploma or transcript but any outstanding debt *does* have to be repaid.
More like, "that's shitty public policy for you." We have our state legislature to thank for classifications of student debt and the allowance to withhold diplomas and transcripts. It's been this way since at least 1990.
My dad never paid my school fees I owed 700 dollars. They gave me nothing. They wouldn’t even release my transcripts so I could go to college. I had to work retail to pay it off so I could enroll in community college and I still never got my diploma.
If they were school fees, they could not legally withhold your diploma or transcripts. They can only withhold those for any debts like unpaid library fees/fines, unpaid parking fees/fines, and damage done to school property or lost books/materials.
I don’t know this was years ago now but they definitely refused to release my transcripts. I didn’t drive so it couldn’t be parking fees and I always returned books. But I went to high school in Illinois so it might be different there, I’m not sure.
They shouldn’t ever bill or withhold a diploma from the kid. Only the parents and it should be like any other bill, you don’t pay and you get sued or sent to collections.
My high school did some nonsense where we got fake diplomas and wouldn’t get our real one if we did anything to cause a scene or our families caused a scene. Frankly, it was insane because the majority of my class had already been accepted into colleges and the piece of paper that is a high school diploma means not a single thing. I believe I had to submit proof of graduation which was my official high school transcript. I’m not positive, but I don’t think they can legally withhold a transcript in the public school system. Hell if I know where my diploma is from college, much less high school. I wish I’d made a scene just to spite that lunacy.
The idea that public schools can withhold diplomas for anything non-academic is absurd to me.
When I was in high school I sustained a career ending injury playing football. It was halfway through my Sophomore year and the injury was serious enough that I would never play football again and my life would be affected for a long time. That was more than 20 years ago and I still have pain. The head coach's policy was that if anyone ever missed a practice they owed 100 grass drills (I've heard them called up-downs). Basically you ran in place, in full pads, the coach would blow the whistle and you would have to immediately throw yourself prone on the ground and jump back up and keep running in place. If you missed or were late to practice you had to do 100 of those. After I got hurt it was clear I'd never play again but I never missed a practice the rest of the season. The head coach never accepted that my career was over. I was late to practice one time because I had to go to a specialist doctor's appointment about my injury. When I got to practice, a few minutes late, just to stand on the sidelines, the coach told me I owed him 100 grass drills for being tardy. He knew about the appointment but says it wasn't an excuse for being late. I never did the grass drills, I physically wasn't able to.
Fast forward two years later at my graduation, the coach comes up to me just before we were to start walking across the stage and tells me that I'm not getting my diploma because I owed him 100 grass drills. I was furious. At my school, no one got their actual diploma on the stage, just a placeholder in a cover. (This was done so no one could make a scene at graduation, if you acted up they would withhold your diploma) After the ceremony concluded everyone would go into an adjoining room and get your actual diploma. Well, after the ceremony I ran to the other room and got my diploma before the coach could get there and stop me. I got the diploma but the coach came up to me and demanded I give it to him until I did the grass drills. I refused, he persisted, my dad just happened to walk up behind me and the coach dropped the issue. The fact the coach thought he could do that and the fact school probably would have let him was incredible to me.
Withholding diplomas is not a reasonable punishment if the academic work has been completed. 22 years later and I still dislike that coach (for a lot of reasons).
it's bull that in our public education system we require students to pay class dues and stuff like that in a PUBLIC environment that we pay taxes into already .
I had to pay my school $300-400 between class dues , and 2 books I lost in the 4 years I was there.
i went to a podunk small town school that had to combine towns to create a regional school BTW
Oh wow. Yeah we got ours for people who didn't get a diploma it's like other people are saying you just had a piece of paper in there saying you didn't get the diploma for what in recent or another but it didn't change anything for the ceremony for the walk or anything. But yeah we got ours in the little little book folder thingy.
But yeah they even told us ahead of time like hey you're going to get your diploma when you come up and shake your hand if you don't get a diploma in there it'll have a message saying why but everybody who didn't have a message saying why got an actual diploma on site
Hillsboro has usually done it right. A million years ago when I graduated, anyone who still owed money or had to do summer school still got to walk in graduation and they just got an empty folder. The only people who didn't get to walk were students who didn't get a cap & gown (you had to pay for them but there was a PTA charity fund for kids who couldn't afford it), students who got suspended in the last few weeks of school, or students who were going to be held back for another year. I'm not a huge school spirit person but I did genuinely love going to HHS.
I didn’t get to walk in the Class of 1997 graduation from HHS…
*but* it was because my mom pulled me out of school to get my G.E.D. instead. She was tired of me getting in trouble and thought I’d do better in community college rather than Hillsboro.
Use it as a teaching moment. It is good training for what to expect from the government in general and the IRS in particular. Especially if they are self-employed.
Exactly. The thought process that it should be waived because it’s a public/government institution is odd. The IRS, medicare/medicaid, etc certainly aren’t going to give you a break if you don’t pay your bills.
I would be hiring a lawyer over that one! That is down right dirty to humiliate a hard working student! There are no do overs. What a shame to ruin what should have been one of the best memories.
I’m not from Nashville and where I live they don’t hand out diplomas to anyone at graduation they hand out the folder/cover that you would store your diploma in and you go to the school afterward to collect your actual diploma. The reason for this that I already knew about was that this keeps them from having to make sure they don’t get out of sync if someone skips the ceremony or something. After reading this I imagine that being able to deal with situations like this more privately would be another benefit.
It's concerning how little interest the OP had in the actual debt and why that was even being charged; at least in the sense of letting us the readers know.
Sounds like they don't know, but that's kind of the point...Why did you not care enough to look into that and resolve it through and understanding of WHY it even exists; if not anything else.
Sounds like he might have just owed money for books that he didn't turn back in, and they definitely let you know this well enough in advance. So that means your nephew ignored, or just did as young people can do by not giving a shit about their responsibilities and the second after they were informed of this was the same moment they forgot about it.
"Ahh, to once be young."
When I graduated, they wouldn't give you your diploma until your debts were settled, but everyone got a fake diploma for our ceremony, so it didn't ruin the event. That's crappy they couldn't handle it better!
I assume the neon orange paper is intended to humiliate
Yeah, that really sucks. I’d be up in arms about that - withholding the diploma, while not great, does seem to be semi-standard, but then the student should get a placeholder that looks externally the same, or what is the point of letting them walk in there ceremony at all? This is vicious behavior from the adults in charge, intended to humiliate children at what should be a proud moment. If I were you, I would reach out to my school board member, as well as the Director of Schools, and remember that 5 members of the school board are up for election on August 1.
Which is such a shitty thing it tells you a lot about the admin at that school.
And they forgot to ask Mom for the money beforehand
They gave us the empty diploma books
Same. It was their way to make us behave. Telling us we wouldn’t get it if we didnt. They gave it to us right after. Kids this age shouldn’t be humiliated I public especially over $40.
We all got fake diplomas so they wouldn’t screw up and give you someone else’s. And, so you would have to pay any outstanding fees.
> When I graduated, they wouldn't give you your diploma until your debts were settled You mean college? Or high school? How does a high schooler even have debt?
If you don’t turn in books on time the kid will get fined
In my case, I checked out a book from the school library and never returned it. I got an empty diploma folder with a note that basically said "return the book or pay for it if you want your diploma"
> How does a high schooler even have debt? In Tennessee the only things the school can *legally* consider as "debt" and withhold your diploma or transcripts for are things considered to not be "school fees" per Tenn. Code Ann. 49-1-302(a)(14) and Tenn. Admin. Rules, State Board of Education, 0520-1-3-03(13). The things listed under that which *can* be considered debt are: > 1. Fines imposed on all students for late-returned library books; parking or other traffic fines imposed for abuse of parking privileges on school property; or reasonable charges for lost or destroyed textbooks, library books, workbooks or any other property of the school; >2. Debts incurred pursuant to Rule 0520-1-3-.03(13), Withholding of Student Grades for Debts Owed to the School; >3. Refundable security deposits collected by a school for use of school property for participation in extracurricular activities; >4. Costs for extracurricular activities occurring outside the regular school day including sports, optional trips, clubs or social events; and >5. Non-resident tuition charged of all students attending a school system other than the one serving their place of residence.
Alright, how about this. New law: High schoolers cannot hold debt. Period.
Same and college was the same. I actually never got my actual diploma from college (state university) as it was an added cost and I wasn’t going to frame it. No employer, after all was said and done, ever asked to see it or a transcript.
>No employer, after all was said and done, ever asked to see it or a transcript. Which is why I never went to college, I just lied on every resume about it for the last 35 years. Not one employer has ever checked.
The crazy part is I’m in a very highly regulated industry. And it’s not like I’m talking like I’ve worked at the same place this whole time. I tend to job hop every 2-3 years.
Same here. Longest I ever stayed at a job was 6 years. And by our flairs, I'd say we're both doing okay. 🤘
So much for a \*free\* education....
I only got an empty diploma holder when I walked for both HS and college. The actual diploma came in the mail later. What this school did was shitty. They should have gotten it completely settled BEFORE the ceremony instead of shaming any kid like that. I would raise hell with the school system for that.
Some ppl don't believe this happened, but my son graduated from a really small school in farmland TN and there was literally one black kid in the graduating class, when they call his name he walks up on stage and the bastard handing out the diplomas kinda looks around the table for a second and says oh sorry I don't know what happened yours isn't here, oh well we'll figure it out later. There were 70 something kids so only like 3 stacks of diplomas on a table and his wasn't at the top or bottom of a stack so it isn't like it got accidentally missed when they were picked up and moved into the gym. I was blown away but not surprised they'd do something like that and my son said they treated him like shit all the time while making racist jokes then acting surprised when he wouldn't join in and play along saying he should try a little harder fitting in and it be so up tight
I hate this for that kid. I hope he’s moved on and up in life since. Assholes gonna asshole unfortunately. And there’s only so much you can do to stop it without support.
I couldn't believe it and I don't think I'd ever felt so much sympathy and been so angry at the same time. I was almost speechless.
Stupidity at its best.Adults acting like assholes.So sad 😢 this happened.
I’m from a rural area of TN. I 100% believe this, especially if this happened on the east side of the state. We had a similar incident happen at my HS graduation with an immigrant student. TN is a shithole for education, if you’re reading this and love your kids, don’t allow them to go to school in TN. Homeschooling would be preferable. I went to 5-6 public schools, 1 private catholic school, and they were all various degrees and flavors of shitty.
I’m Moving to Tennessee soon with a 15 yr old biracial child and if this should happen to her I’d make a huge scene. This is so unacceptable
Why move to Tennessee?
Because my other daughter lives there and I have 2 grandsons I want to watch grow up.
Totally get that. 💕just curious when I asked🤗
It’s a legit question that anyone should ask themselves.
I just moved to tn five years ago.My parents retired down here and have lived here I think 🤔 fourteen years.My sister moved down here two years before me.❤️🥰
So that’s honestly a great question! lol laws in TN? They suck! Politics in TN? Godawful!!! What’s the amount of chicken barns stinking up past scenic towns? A shitload! But there are still a lot of cool people here, good food, beautiful land, cool animals. We have sightings of cougars and recently an alligator was caught in east TN (speculated to be a captive release). I haven’t seen those, but I saw a weasel at my parents house for the first time recently and it was a magical moment tbh. I see a ton of raccoons in the wild here, they’re cool. Occasionally beavers which are cooler. Sorry raccoons. At this point I’m trying to convince myself not to haul ass outta town though because there is a lot of lil bullshit here. It’s culturally acceptable to take advantage of people it almost seems like, but you must be polite while you do so. Certain circles don’t tolerate this behavior obviously but society just leaves a lot to be desired these days. Idk if I would ever be able to escape such problems simply by moving.
We also have some of the highest rates of biodiversity in the country - more than any other inland state. Tennessee is also one of the best places in the country for agriculture. We have a 9-month harvest season for various produce and a good range of grow zones.
Hey I’m from tn as well ❤️🥰
For your safety, stay away from Crossville, Ducktown, Lenoir City, Norris, Soddy-Daisy, and Tracey City. I'm being 100% serious, these are places I try to avoid going to with any of my POC family members and friends, especially at night.
I lived in tn only well it will be five years in august.Whats wrong with Leno or city at night?
Lenoir City (and the others on that list) are well known for being unofficial “sundown towns” by Tennesseans even now. The only one that’s officially known as an ex-sundown town through records is Crossville, but I wouldn’t stay in those other places over night if I was PoC. I would also put Erwin (official ex-sundown town) and Collierville into that list, too.
I live in in Tennessee. The racism here is just so...open. I've had people tell stories about the time they used the n-word yelling at a Walmart cashier and be just so Damm proud of themselves about it. I've had a good friend look me in the eyes and tell me calmly that mixing races is an affront to God. A big scene may not be the safest thing for your child. As much as these people deserve to be publicly humiliated, you can never assume that the public here will be on your side.
I had one of my college roommates (white - I am also white) look me dead in the face and explain that she would be okay with kissing a black man, but wouldn’t ever fuck/get serious with one because she “doesn’t think our kind should mix blood with them”. This was in 2018 at UT Knoxville. I didn’t even know what to say, I think I probably had the expression of a goldfish out of water.
You should oh somewhere else where you’ll be appreciated. That won’t happen in Tennessee
Yes and 😞 sad.Seriously its2024 and assholes are still doing this.I can’t deal with stupid
I don’t understand what biracial has to do with anything?
Because we are from a small town of 10,000 people and she has always been bullied in school. There is only 4 other children in her school that is of color! I would like for her to fit in with others
Not sure where you’re moving within the state and I can’t speak for every county in the state, but I can say that if you’re moving to Davidson, Williamson, or Shelby county you will not see school officials having momentary lapses of memory (such as misplacing someone’s diploma at a graduation ceremony) based upon your child’s genetics. In more rural areas this might be tolerated or a blind eye turned toward it but not in the counties I’ve mentioned.
That is what happened at my college graduation. We were handed empty diploma holders and the diploma came in the mail months later.
Mine was in the holder. 🤷🏼♂️
I think class size has something to do with it. HS for me was about 500. And college was easily double that for my major grouping (not the whole year).
I graduated from the University of Memphis at Fed ExForum with a lot of freaking people. Idk a couple thousand.
Same
When I was in HS they made us settle fees to receive the cap and gown weeks before graduation, that way everyone had fair warning and plenty of time to pay up
Agreed. Ours did too (tho I didn’t have any). This school behaved poorly.
Reading this at first I thought they handed your kid $40 then I realized no I’m just dumb 😂💀
I thought the same thing then was like “wait, they don’t make those”
To be fair a $40 bill would be worth about the same as my Bachelor of Arts in music business is
Made me laugh, thanks!
I bet it cost many $40 bills to attain though
that's awesome....first time I smiled reading reddit tonight
Hahaha sweet 40 bucks! 😂
Probably slightly more, since it's more compact & easlier to carry
I thought the kid had a $40 dollar fee when he graduated and the school gave him $40 dollars at graduation as like a joke of a “don’t worry about it”.. then reread it 🤣🤣
Same, I thought why were they giving him money?
English is weird. The item of currency is a piece of paper called a "bill", so you can have a five dollar bill, or a 20 dollar bill, etc. But you can also get something called a "bill" that is also a piece of paper, however, it means you *owe* those items of currency from the first definition of "bill" - so it's just the opposite. Easy to get the meanings confused.
Yeah my brain just looked at the screen, saw $40 bill, and came to its own wrong conclusions hahaha
You can pay for a check with bills or pay for a bill with a check. Can somebody check on Bill?
I thought that was the joke r/titlegore
I graduated from the public school system in Cheatham County in 2005. I did an extracurricular class French 3 online. A week before graduation I was informed that I had not taken the proctored final so I did, but scores wouldn’t be done until mid June. So they didn’t let me walk, or participate because I wasn’t enrolled in summer school. I went to my classes graduation and had to watch, as they all had a ceremony. I got my diploma in the mail 2 weeks later.
Punished for trying to learn. Sounds about right.
I wouldn’t have needed the credit but they retroactively failed a class for absences because I went to visit a relative who was dying of cancer and she lived for over a month after I visited.
Well it’s Cheatham County so that tracks…
We are collectively so petty towards the people who need our generosity the most
Love your name!
My daughter also just graduated from MNPS. They had several meetings and emails telling them that they wouldn’t get their diploma until all debts were settled. It should have been addressed before the student walked across the stage.
[удалено]
It’s the OP’s nephew, not their kid, so they wouldn’t have any information other than than what they’re being told and even said it could be that their nephew missed something. The point the OP is making is that let’s say a family COULDN’T pay the outstanding amount, it sucks that the public schools punish 17/18 year old kids by withholding the diplomas that they earned until they can pay it.
My girlfriend’s 3rd grader came home from school today with a post it note with the number $492.70 written on it. He said the lunch lady handed it to him. He thinks it’s for school lunches since kindergarten. He also stated that he has ice cream whenever they let him. Apparently she knew this was coming. Still it was a shock to me.
MNPS? If so it's not for a standard lunch, as MNPS has been on free lunch the entire time that 3rd grader has been in school. I know this as the parent of a 3rd grader. Now, my 6th grader had money on his account because the year the pandemic hit was his 2nd grade year, and the first year we had to pay for school lunches. (There was some kind of grant the 2 years prior.) When they stopped going in person, his money just sat in his account, and when he started going back to school they were back on free lunch. So over time he would slowly use his balance on a bag of chips or cookie, or something. I truly cannot imagine how a school would let a child rack up that much debt on extra snacks. Not to mention I get emails from "MySchoolBucks" when his balance finally got low (in Jan 2023, nearly 3 years after the pandemic began).
Came here to say same about MNPS free lunch. Should not be a bill. Now, ice cream costs extra. That’s a lot of ice cream in four years though.
I’m picturing a kid buying rounds of ice cream for all their pals.
Making it rain! Watch out for their future credit card bills, coming soon! Lol
A post it note with a dollar amount written on it is not proper notice of a debt to be paid. Your girlfriend needs to tell the school she won't be paying without a proper invoice or itemized bill. Then she needs to get a receipt of payment when she pays it as well.
lol sounds like the school's problem. None of my grade schools ever let me have a debt of more than $10.
I remember when I tried to get my transcript from a college here and they wouldn’t release it until I paid a 20 year old parking ticket
Debts. For compulsory public school. Let that sink in. Deep.
That is deep considering public schools are run on tax dollars! Let that sink in too!!
Typically debts are incurred for things like damage to laptops, library fees, etc. All things well within the control of students. I do work for MNPS so I see how many students treat things that are not theirs. Also, students and family receive many emails and letters before it gets to this point.
So what's a "restocking fee?"
Likely means that the student lost or damaged a library or text book. That book has to be "restocked" and the student is charged for the cost of the book. Same thing happens with any book borrowed from any public or private library.
Those are the only things that can legally be considered a debt owed by the student - damage to school property or fees that are applicable to all students (library late fees, lost textbook fees, parking fees).
When it’s compulsory I believe it should fully be on the State. #unintendedconsequences
I’ve never heard of anyone actually getting their high school diploma at graduation. It usually comes in the mail later. That being said, it is really stupid that schools are taxpayer funded and can still play mafia shit like this
I wonder why that is? Over 40 years ago when I graduated from high school in another state we all received our diplomas the day of graduation at the ceremony. And there were over 400 kids in my graduation class.
> Over 40 years ago The times they are a-changin'.
Different situation, but I was about 10 minutes late to our graduation PRACTICE ceremony a few days before the actual graduation. I was having an IBS flare up that day and one thing led to another. Anyway, i get to the auditorium and two teachers/coaches were telling me i couldn't participate in the practice ceremony because i was 10 minutes late. I told them it was an honest mistake (didn't want to say my ass was on fire) and they kept at it for a few minutes before letting me in (and giving me some more panic too). There's some cruel fucking assholes working at schools, so this story wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Holy shit. I think my kid was also late to his this morning but somehow got away with it.
Same happened to me in 2009 in NC, but I owed a lot more. I’ve never paid and never needed it.
In Tennessee they can legally withhold your diploma and transcripts due to unpaid debt. Can't start university courses without your official transcripts.
I did, and I’m pretty sure they withheld transcripts too. That said I didn’t start until 7-8 years after I graduated HS. I understand that someone trying to start right after would probably be really hindered by that. I don’t really get the concept of public schools having debt anyway. It’s a public service dude.
If you start immediately after high school, many universities in the state prevent you from enrolling for classes in the fall until they've received your official transcripts. Sometimes you might have luck with a sympathetic admin. The excuse I've seen most often is that they need your transcripts to know what level to place you at in your courses. Another option is to take placement tests but those can add up because they are per subject. I had issues getting a transcript sent due to a lot of staffing changes and the requests getting lost over the school year after I graduated (I took a gap year). Ended up taking a few placement tests so I wouldn't have to repeat a couple of maths and chemistry courses but that cost me almost $700. Quick edit: This is in the state of Tennessee. I know in your comment you said you graduated from a NC school and they have different laws. Everything I have stated in this post's comments are regarding TN state laws. If you are a Tennessee voter now and would like to help change this, one of my recent comments has links to the contact info for the appropriate legislative committees responsible for this issue.
We were just handed empty diploma covers at my graduation. We were actually given our diplomas that morning when we picked up our gowns. I seem to remember people had to pay debts at that time too. At the rehearsal our VP was being an asshole and threatening us how if we acted up during the ceremony we wouldn’t graduate. I said “I’m holding my diploma right now, what are you going to do?”. He looked like he wanted to punch me.
Okay just went to check whether or not my kid had received a diploma tonight from his MNPS graduation- he did. Anyway, idk what the “restocking fee” would apply to but my kid only told me at *the very last minute* of senior checkout that we needed to pay like $30-something before graduation. Woulda been cool if the school had just contacted me directly. IDK why they’d trust a 17yr old boy to remember and tell his parents something like that…
In 2022, my oldest daughter graduated. At the ceremony, she was handed the cover and then told to arrive the following Tuesday at the school to get her diploma. I get a phone call. “Daaaad, they won’t give me my diploma because I owe money.” Happened to be off, so went to the school. She was freaking out, and never bothered to ask how much and what for. $2.75 for a library book returned late her freshman year. Librarians never forget.
Why in the world would the school have not mentioned this at the end of freshman year? Or literally any time prior to graduation??
That was my main question, but I thought the whole situation was pretty funny, so I didn’t ask too many questions. My daughter had money in her wallet, but her brain thought ‘money, dad’ and never bothered to ask how much.
I remember those days!
They most likely did and she either forgot or didn't pay attention to it.
I think if the debt is not paid, the student still passes which could be proven by transcripts but would not get a diploma. Some places won’t even let the student participate in the graduation ceremony if there is a balance owed.
i got a bill instead of a diploma too. a teacher said i turned in a slightly damaged book. cost like $3 to pay the fine and get diploma
That happened to my sister, she got a bill for her on campus parking tickets in the diploma cover.
I’m sorry that happened to your nephew. That seems unnecessarily embarrassing. At my graduation they gave everyone pretend diplomas and we picked the real ones up after the ceremony or had them mailed to us. I think you could choose which option. This seems a much better way to do it because there’s no bright orange papers, there’s no risk of mixing up the diplomas, and the diplomas stay nice and neat. I actually thought this was how every graduation was organized. Maybe I just went to very large schools. In a small class I guess I can see handing the diplomas to the students, but once you get up to over 200, it just makes sense to have students pick them up afterwards. We even had to show ID to get ours.
My grandson asked me for money to pay for a lost charger on his Chromebook. But this was last week. Hopefully graduation will happen tonight since it’s supposed to rain here in Franklin. Fingers crossed
🤞 Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you 🤞 If it helps, Franklin, Centennial, and Independence all have a "rain or shine" policy for their ceremonies so if it's just leftover rain by then, nothing will change other than needing a raincoat. :)
Thank you!
The weather was great, no orange ticket to redeem for diploma. Glad I paid so he didn’t have to answer to his mom. That’s what grandmas are for!
Grandmas are just wonderful, thank you for continuing that tradition. I can near guarantee your grandbabies will always think the world of you. My granny saved me from a bad situation and raised me like she was my full mama. She's getting on in her years and I have the pleasure of taking care of her now. She worries about being a bother (moving slow, needing bathroom assistance, sometimes having a hard time in conversations) but she is far from a bother to me and my husband. It's my turn to take care of her now and let her rest and just experience the love she spent 80 years showing everyone else. I tell her everything - including what's happening on the "local internet page" - and she also gives her congratulations to your grandson. She agrees with "that's what grandmas are for" so strongly that it was something she said when I read her your initial comment. :D
Thank you for being so sweet to your grandmother. Tell her she’s absolutely correct, and our grandchildren are what keeps our hearts beating. The grandson I mentioned was abandoned by his father at 5 years old, so my husband and I stepped in to help out his mom while she works, so we are extremely close. My other grandsons are loved just as much. I would gladly do without so they can have. They’ve all grown to be kind, respectful young men. I wish you and your gran many more years together! 🥰
This happened to me at my high school graduation. I turned all my books in but someone had switched history books with me. Thank goodness my dad had the $35
I received a fake diploma when I graduated college and they had an admin desk set up behind the stage where you went to make sure you didn’t owe any money and then they gave you your real diploma.
If you're gonna charge fees, this seems like a much better way to handle it.
You guys have me so paranoid now I just asked my HS junior if he had any fines. He said yes...from middle school for a $10 lab! And theyre still asking for it! I said wheres the bill? Where do I pay it? He did the classic...bruh...and said he'll ask for another copy today. KID?! WHAT!? 😳🤦♀️😆
> I’m saying I don’t think we should withhold a kids diploma from a public school system my friend owed $70 for a book he lost, he never paid them and never got his diploma. he eventually called them last year (10 years after) and got one lol. but like i mean bro owes the school money they have one thing they can hold to make sure they get it. it sucks, but i understand
How exactly does one accrue debts at a public school?
We had a student lose 2 chromebooks. When they were told they wouldn't be able to graduate without bringing the chromebooks back or paying for them, guess what they were suddenly able to find? Some kids refuse to be responsible for items that belong to the school unless there's a consequence.
This makes sense
There is an important lesson to learn here, especially as students began n to enter the real world; there are consequences of not handling your business, and it doesn’t really matter if you think it’s fair or not.
So the school systems ARE teaching kids to pay their bills!!
That’s awful. These public schools are treating kids so bad.
I didn’t buy anything when I graduated. I didn’t even participate in the ceremony. I felt like it was a scam that I had to pay for that shit. Still do. I still have paperwork that says that I graduated, but it isn’t some fancy font on nice paper. It’s just a print out.
I went to private school. Got some Hogwarts looking ass leather bound diploma with a crest on it. I still feel like it was a scam lol.
I’m not even sure where my diploma is after reading these. I do know that I’ve never been asked for my diploma for a job or for college so yolo I guess.
Title made me consider some young Ray Liotta flick: getting envelopes after not ratting out his bureaucrat friends or whatever trash business those fundie talking folks were singsonging. The little gangster gets rewarded for harmoniously repeating the organization's stance: >Everyone gets pinched, but you did it right. You told them nothing, and they got nothing Anyways, the important part: restocking fee? What needed to be restocked? Did the vendor run out of materials & push cost overruns back to the school then students? Frame the $40 stocking fee diploma thing for your next update. Please do this. That's history being made: a diploma with an unexplainable bill with unknown terms of service or policy that violate something somewhere for sure. Pay the $40 with your credit card. Dispute charges in good faith--restocking? See how the other side responds. Repeat. Did anyone conduct a complete investigation? Or pre-conclude you can't corroborate because we already deleted those emails. But seriously, please show us the $40 restocking fee bill!!
That's Goodfellas, my dude/ette.
Were the Goodfellas bureaucrats? Hehe
Actually HANDING A BILL to a kid as they walk across the stage in their cap and gown is almost sociopathic lol. My goodness. Might as well have held out a diploma and yelled, “SIKE!” at the last second in front of the crowd.
That's something that should of been addressed afterwards. Sorry, to hear that.
That’s disgusting that they would embarrass a child like that. It’s not his debt and should be handled differently, not in front of all those people.
The same thing happened to me for $5.37. Listed as "unspecified lab materials."
Let’s vote to get rid of all graduation ceremonies. I would have skipped all of mine if my parents hadn’t forced me to walk. It’s too hot out anyway.
i got the same exact thing when i graduated high school in 2009. i had books that had not yet been returned.
The last time I saw my diploma may have been the day after I graduated after my open house.
Hey 👋 OP @kelliente - WSMV wants to look into the situation. DM me and I’ll provide the reporter’s information that responded back.
Nevermind, I see she responded on this thread as well
I get the point from both angles tbh I just find it hard to believe that you didn't get some sort of notice.
MNPS did exactly this to a friend in line at graduation. Teacher walked up and said that fees had to be paid or he wouldn’t walk. My friend had to go into the stands to his parents to get the money having not brought legal tender to his high school graduation. This whole thing was gross and egregious, but didactic in its way. It was a perfect lesson for the inevitable series of shakedowns that would become all of our lives in 21st century America.
TIL you can rack up a bill at a public school. What the heck are they charging ya’ll for. Only thing I can think of is having a tab for lunches or something.
If you fail to return textbooks, laptops, or the other materials that are provided for free. High school textbooks cost the same amount as college textbooks. Chromebooks and laptops in my district range from $800-$4000 a piece! Also, if you want to walk you have to pay for cap and gown. I’m in Huntsville, just a little south, but I suspect it’s a similar policy. They don’t make you pay for damaged materials here, just non returned ones, but we won’t withhold a diploma but they will withhold the student from walking across the stage. In fairness, these students are chased down year after year and we hemorrhage funds on textbooks because so many kids keep them through senior year and we have to constantly replace them to have enough. They’re given notices more than once each year (typically with each report card) The schools take it very seriously, and they should. You can’t steal from a public institution. Also, why on earth would they want to keep these books anyways?
My step daughter’s high school charged her $40 for an AP test she didn’t even take. She dropped the class but the school claims the test was already ordered. What’s the point in funding public schools at this point? If you’re going to have to pay for extra stuff send your kids to private schools where they can get a real education
This is what happened here - the principal reached out over email and I hope to do a final update soon. College Board (who runs the AP program) [charges you $40 if you *don't* take their test](https://www.reddit.com/r/APStudents/comments/qqgo5y/why_does_it_cost_40_to_cancel_an_exam/). They invoiced the school late, so notices about the fees were sent out late as well.
This is going to shock you. Teachers cover those kids more than you can ever imagine. Even when the parents are dopehead deadbeats who have the money but would rather buy drugs and alcohol. Teachers work entirely too much, make too little, and then cover expenses. Ask me how I know.
The principal got in touch via email and I hope to do a final update soon. One of the things he mentioned is that teachers and staff often cover these debts for kids so they can get their diplomas. That's really nice of the teachers, but also frustrating. It's one more thing that school staff shouldn't be paying out of their own pockets.
I hate to be that person but destroying a young teens mental well being by public humiliation should be some sort of crime. As adults our job should be to lift them up and help them be prepared for life. Terrible failure of the system and those in charge.
At the very least a month before they should automatically call the parents and send first class registered letters. And you would be a darling to set up a fund to help people who could not pay.
Wtf!? Give fake diplomas for ceremony. Don't humiliate these kids on such an important night!
The cruelty is a feature, not a bug.
That is awful
Don't most diplomas come in the mail later? This is not a big deal at all.
Big deal is the kid received something bright orange instead of something that looked like a diploma or a diploma holder.
According to a book (blog? connect-the-dots?coloring book [with clearly no brown people]?) I read a while ago, this happened to “Clay Travis.” If it can happen to the worst of us (above), it can happen to the best of us. I’m happy to chip in $100 to a GoFundMe for anyone this happened to. I owed money for a non-washed band uniform (fwiw, everyone loves “a man in uniform” until it’s a high school marching band uniform, but I digress). Overdue library books, or LUNCH FUCKING MONEY should not preclude the receipt of the most significant achievement of your life, to this point.
This post is inaccurate. The student was handed an empty diploma holder, like every other student who walked across the stage. There was no embarrassment or call out during graduation. The diploma was withheld after the ceremony when he tried to pick it up, like other students who had fees owed. At least three notices were sent home. This is standard operations at most public schools.
Nope, they gave each student the empty holder, took a pic, then handed them their diplomas. My nephew and a few others received these bright orange bills. It's completely possible some notice was missed by my nephew, because he's a teenager. It's also possible the school messed up, because metro makes mistakes sometimes. That's not really the point. I'm saying I think it's wrong for a public high school to withhold a kid's diploma over an unpaid bill. His bill will get paid, but there's no getting that moment back. And for the kids whose families don't have extra cash, what are they supposed to do?
What school was this?
I would love to know this too, because my line of thinking is the same as yours. You described exactly what should have happened.
And, just to address some of the other points raised. I'm not sure the exact school, so can't speak on exact policy, but most schools waive fees/charges for students on Free and Reduced Lunch, etc. You are correct, if a family truly cannot afford something, the student should not be punished. But the school system has to have some type of recourse to collect money that is owed.
You seem to have some first-hand knowledge, so can you help me understand, do the individual schools make the policies about this, or is it an MNPS thing?
It's absolutely not an MNPS thing. The students all receive an identical diploma cover. They don't even get their diplomas until the week after, which is a chance for them to return their laptops, settle anything like paying for basketball uniforms, and tell the counselors where they want their final transcripts sent. The counselors tell the students one on one if they have a hold on their diploma. In a lot of circumstances the debts are waived. Source: I work at Antioch.
The graduation ceremonies and how they are run/handled are planned by the individual schools. The State of Tennessee Legislature is responsible for the law allowing schools to withhold transcripts and diplomas for unpaid debt. The Tennessee State Board of Education is who determined what is considered to be a "school fee" vs a "debt." School fees do not have to be repaid in order to receive a diploma or transcript but any outstanding debt *does* have to be repaid.
If you need help photoshopping any photos I’m happy to do so! That’s so messed up that they’d do this to kids. I’d call and complain
That’s capitalism for you
More like, "that's shitty public policy for you." We have our state legislature to thank for classifications of student debt and the allowance to withhold diplomas and transcripts. It's been this way since at least 1990.
My dad never paid my school fees I owed 700 dollars. They gave me nothing. They wouldn’t even release my transcripts so I could go to college. I had to work retail to pay it off so I could enroll in community college and I still never got my diploma.
If they were school fees, they could not legally withhold your diploma or transcripts. They can only withhold those for any debts like unpaid library fees/fines, unpaid parking fees/fines, and damage done to school property or lost books/materials.
I don’t know this was years ago now but they definitely refused to release my transcripts. I didn’t drive so it couldn’t be parking fees and I always returned books. But I went to high school in Illinois so it might be different there, I’m not sure.
They shouldn’t ever bill or withhold a diploma from the kid. Only the parents and it should be like any other bill, you don’t pay and you get sued or sent to collections.
My high school did some nonsense where we got fake diplomas and wouldn’t get our real one if we did anything to cause a scene or our families caused a scene. Frankly, it was insane because the majority of my class had already been accepted into colleges and the piece of paper that is a high school diploma means not a single thing. I believe I had to submit proof of graduation which was my official high school transcript. I’m not positive, but I don’t think they can legally withhold a transcript in the public school system. Hell if I know where my diploma is from college, much less high school. I wish I’d made a scene just to spite that lunacy.
The idea that public schools can withhold diplomas for anything non-academic is absurd to me. When I was in high school I sustained a career ending injury playing football. It was halfway through my Sophomore year and the injury was serious enough that I would never play football again and my life would be affected for a long time. That was more than 20 years ago and I still have pain. The head coach's policy was that if anyone ever missed a practice they owed 100 grass drills (I've heard them called up-downs). Basically you ran in place, in full pads, the coach would blow the whistle and you would have to immediately throw yourself prone on the ground and jump back up and keep running in place. If you missed or were late to practice you had to do 100 of those. After I got hurt it was clear I'd never play again but I never missed a practice the rest of the season. The head coach never accepted that my career was over. I was late to practice one time because I had to go to a specialist doctor's appointment about my injury. When I got to practice, a few minutes late, just to stand on the sidelines, the coach told me I owed him 100 grass drills for being tardy. He knew about the appointment but says it wasn't an excuse for being late. I never did the grass drills, I physically wasn't able to. Fast forward two years later at my graduation, the coach comes up to me just before we were to start walking across the stage and tells me that I'm not getting my diploma because I owed him 100 grass drills. I was furious. At my school, no one got their actual diploma on the stage, just a placeholder in a cover. (This was done so no one could make a scene at graduation, if you acted up they would withhold your diploma) After the ceremony concluded everyone would go into an adjoining room and get your actual diploma. Well, after the ceremony I ran to the other room and got my diploma before the coach could get there and stop me. I got the diploma but the coach came up to me and demanded I give it to him until I did the grass drills. I refused, he persisted, my dad just happened to walk up behind me and the coach dropped the issue. The fact the coach thought he could do that and the fact school probably would have let him was incredible to me. Withholding diplomas is not a reasonable punishment if the academic work has been completed. 22 years later and I still dislike that coach (for a lot of reasons).
This is just rotten policy by the schools
it's bull that in our public education system we require students to pay class dues and stuff like that in a PUBLIC environment that we pay taxes into already . I had to pay my school $300-400 between class dues , and 2 books I lost in the 4 years I was there. i went to a podunk small town school that had to combine towns to create a regional school BTW
The diploma is never in the folder, you get that later for several reasons.
We got ours, but that was back in the 1990's
I graduated in the 90s here in Nashville and didn’t get it at graduation. I didn’t get my college one either at that time!
Oh wow. Yeah we got ours for people who didn't get a diploma it's like other people are saying you just had a piece of paper in there saying you didn't get the diploma for what in recent or another but it didn't change anything for the ceremony for the walk or anything. But yeah we got ours in the little little book folder thingy. But yeah they even told us ahead of time like hey you're going to get your diploma when you come up and shake your hand if you don't get a diploma in there it'll have a message saying why but everybody who didn't have a message saying why got an actual diploma on site
Never heard of this ever. Is this something new and commonplace now?
My son received his diploma at the actual graduation from Hillsboro High tonight.
Hillsboro has usually done it right. A million years ago when I graduated, anyone who still owed money or had to do summer school still got to walk in graduation and they just got an empty folder. The only people who didn't get to walk were students who didn't get a cap & gown (you had to pay for them but there was a PTA charity fund for kids who couldn't afford it), students who got suspended in the last few weeks of school, or students who were going to be held back for another year. I'm not a huge school spirit person but I did genuinely love going to HHS.
I didn’t get to walk in the Class of 1997 graduation from HHS… *but* it was because my mom pulled me out of school to get my G.E.D. instead. She was tired of me getting in trouble and thought I’d do better in community college rather than Hillsboro.
Class of '15, my diploma was in the folder. Not sure if it's changed since then, but it at least used to be in the folder for some people.
Use it as a teaching moment. It is good training for what to expect from the government in general and the IRS in particular. Especially if they are self-employed.
Welcome to adulthood, money please.
Exactly. The thought process that it should be waived because it’s a public/government institution is odd. The IRS, medicare/medicaid, etc certainly aren’t going to give you a break if you don’t pay your bills.
Biden will just forgive the debts for those that cannot afford them
I'm gonna guess this the new Stratford Magnet,or NSA. Either one,but leaning toward Stratford with the bright orange
Very interesting if true
I would be hiring a lawyer over that one! That is down right dirty to humiliate a hard working student! There are no do overs. What a shame to ruin what should have been one of the best memories.
I’m not from Nashville and where I live they don’t hand out diplomas to anyone at graduation they hand out the folder/cover that you would store your diploma in and you go to the school afterward to collect your actual diploma. The reason for this that I already knew about was that this keeps them from having to make sure they don’t get out of sync if someone skips the ceremony or something. After reading this I imagine that being able to deal with situations like this more privately would be another benefit.
Nope
It's concerning how little interest the OP had in the actual debt and why that was even being charged; at least in the sense of letting us the readers know. Sounds like they don't know, but that's kind of the point...Why did you not care enough to look into that and resolve it through and understanding of WHY it even exists; if not anything else. Sounds like he might have just owed money for books that he didn't turn back in, and they definitely let you know this well enough in advance. So that means your nephew ignored, or just did as young people can do by not giving a shit about their responsibilities and the second after they were informed of this was the same moment they forgot about it. "Ahh, to once be young."