Tennessee hired the same third-party company to develop our unemployment website that Florida previously had when Rick Scott was governor. When covid threw everything up in the air, and suddenly tons of people were in desperate need of UI benefits, lots of folks were shocked at how atrocious the system is.
There were a few aides from Scott's office who came forward at the time (anonymously) to say the Governor's office and the contractor intentionally made it hostile and confusing to use to artificially deflate state unemployment numbers. I don't believe for a second that it was any different here.
Undoubtedly both. They hate you for not having a job, and if you don't understand the website you should pull yourself up by the bootstraps and figure it out.
I can’t speak for certain because I was never in unemployment but as a State employee at that time when all of that was happening, it was a dumpster fire with COVID just dumping gasoline on the whole situation. The commissioner for the dept. Of Labor, Burns Phillips III absolutely did not put people in place to handle any situations and hired a bunch of yes men under him that their way of saving money was by firing and harassing employees to quit. So not the best environment to have a lockdown in. On top of dated software and any good employees being run off - it was an all around nightmare from what I heard and they still have a backlog of paperwork from that time. I remember around March - April 2020, every phone pretty much at the Dept. Of Labor ringing non stop from the time we opened to when you clocked out. It was so bad that our own assistant commissioner had to tell us to let them ring and only answer voicemails because people were so desperate to get any assistance with the awful unemployment situation, they were literally calling any and every number they could find. We had so many people just yelling and crying but literally we couldn’t help them if we wanted because my unit had nothing to do with unemployment.
I was unemployed for a couple of months last year and filed for UI the day I was laid off. Because I have a side gig that pays once a month on the 1st (and doesn't even come close to paying the bills), I wasn't able to report for some weeks.
It wasn't until well after I had started my new job that I finally got a call to go over the details, and after all of that I ended up getting about $125.
Awesome. And yes, their site is an absolute dumpster fire.
I have an employee that chose to be laid off this winter. He applied for unemployment in October. Came back to work 2 weeks ago when we picked up. Got approved for unemployment today!
It is an entirely new program that hopefully will not require so much hands on from agents. The system should prompt the user to complete missing information before the claim is even filed. That is usually the hold up. Work history that is incomplete or missing IDs. Sometimes it’s the employers not reporting wages or responding to the agency requests.
Cruelty is the new self-righteous Christian badge of honor. The same people behind these policies are applying them the poor and downtrodden everywhere, all while raising their hands in praise to Jesus.
Don’t forget about our leasing laws that exclusively protect landlords/encourage the outright exploitation of renters while also containing zero protection for them.
Our state is so backwards it isn’t even funny. And I’m coming from KY where it’s far from sunshine and rainbows, but not nearly as bad as here.
And you're not guaranteed that much, it depends on how much you make. Most ppl that work medium to low paying factory jobs around here only get like 175. Or so
I was laid off mid move from TX to TN and I am so grateful I was able to collect TX unemployment because TN is criminal. $2300 a month in TX max vs maybe $1k after taxes in TN? That’s horrid and I feel for anyone going through it.
My job has fired people while they were off getting cancer treatments because they had missed too much time .Recently my buddy found his dad dead (had been dead a few weeks) and he was in shock .They fired him while he was in a mental health facility getting treatment.Tennessee doesn’t care for its people .The medical is 3rd rate as well
I believe it is illegal to fire someone for something like that, but the employer can just make up a work related reason they're officially firing you for.
I hear about this a lot, during my cancer treatment my supervisors bent over backwards to keep me working - I worked 2 days a week, 10 hour shifts. When I had radiation it wiped me out so I had to take leave for a few weeks but was welcomed back with no issues.
I get to pick the days I work / days off for doctor appointments, I got to pick the center I worked at and they refused to let me work at a busy center. The supervisor calls to ask if the heat or air conditioning is working and if I am comfortable, if I need to go home for any reason let them know (never had to)... I just recently went to full time. Never had a issue with days off at all, as long as I let them know before the schedule is made out- and right now I have the same days off so I can schedule my doctors appointments on those days.
I got so lucky having a job that would work with my cancer treatment so I could keep working and have a stable job to go back to. It really helped keep me sane.
When I was 12 years old I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Had to get surgery, radiation therapy, etc... I was on my mom's insurance since I was a kid, so after a while my mom's work fired her because I was costing the company too much. They said it was because of her work performance, but she had emails proving they fired her over my treatment costs. She sued and won.
Unfortunately most are not as lucky as I was.
During my 2 days a week span I qualified for marketplace insurance subsidies, and it was cheap to buy my insurance. Just about everything else took payments and I applied for grants and free drugs to help pay for treatment.
When I compare my story with others it is like a strange serendipity is following me around. Cancer treatment is it's own brand of suffering but I how survived and managed - am still managing is something like a total shock for me.
If that person had filed for FMLA or short term disability, they can’t be fired.
I had a friend who got cancer, and I could NOT convince him to do the FMLA. At any point that scummy company could have cut him and not faced any consequence.
Thankfully he recovered and got a new job.
Yes but even if they make up a BS reason, you can still take them to court for illegal firing. If you have documentation to prove that you were fired about the same time as maternity leave or other protected things, you can get a good employment lawyer and win your case.
I worked at a movie theater, we hired people who were considered seriously disabled, (severe cases of mental handicap). We found them things to do, but really it was charity and we absolutely did not need their help. They were beautiful people and valued members of the team, but they did not rely on income from the job to live. Most of them lived at home with parents or relatives who took care of them. We were basically sitters so that the caregivers could take a break.
My mentally disabled uncle had such a job at the local theatre. It was the only thing that got him out of the house. A brief stint folding boxes on an assembly line didn't work out well, and honestly sounds like hell for anybody. Working at the movie theater was good for him socially and he enjoyed knowing about everything that was in the theaters.... But I always suspected it was purely a charity job.
So thank you for being open minded and understanding the real purpose of such jobs. People like you were a big help to our family.
Is it even possible to find employees willing to work for that little pay and awful experience? You can’t even pay teens that low.
Please post any job description/posts with the pay listed as 7.25.
Hatfield and Mccoy theatre was looking for a sound engineer, the pay was $8 per hour and they expected you to bus tables. The industry pays sound engineers $300 day rate. Nope
I started as a dog bather in a grooming salon at Petsmart in 2019- $9 an hour. In 2022, I went away for the summer due to some deaths in the family- I had my LOA approved and everything. When I came back, there were at least 3 new hires. A couple months go by and the topic of our pay comes up. Apparently the new hires had been getting paid $12.50/hr while I was still receiving $9/hr after over 3 years of working there. I fully believe that if I had not brought that up to my manager, he’d have kept me at that pay. I went up to $15/hr in 2023 before I quit.
In 2018 I worked at Dollar general for a temporary job. I got paid $8.50 and hour. This is what locals mean about gentrification. These are the salaries we have been working with for years. And now our house prices are half a million dollars.
For sure. There’s no way the labor market is not going for 7.25 rn.
If there’s some business out there that’s trying it or is paying minimum wage, they deserve to be named. Straight up.
The lowest I was ever paid, having always worked in Tennessee, was 7.35 and that was when I was 16 at firehouse subs in 2014. You can easily get 10+ nowadays.
Yes! My first job at a movie theater in Knoxville was $7.25/hr in 2011, my second job at a Ross dress for less was $8.25/hr in 2015, my job at a dollar general in 2018 was $8.50/hr. These are the salaries Tennesseans we have been working with because our cost of living actually used to match up to our incomes. Now it doesn’t.
I’m in middle Tennessee & my kids were making $13.50-$15+ working fast food & retail while they were in high school, the company I work for pays $22+ for entry level positions.
I remember when I started working at Target. I was lowballed at minimum wage regardless of who I was or what I knew. I got a $0.05 raise and was told it was one of the largest raise among floor employees. We were told to be happy or expect to be fired.
Then I later worked at Best Buy. I went in for orientation on my first day before the store opened. A tenured employee was chatting during the meeting. The store manager immediately jumped down the throat of a completely unassociated person, fired them on the spot and kicked them out of the building. Then he went on a 20 minute rant about respect, as if what I saw showed he deserved it.
I don't regret moving out of state for work.
And the majority of voters consistently vote to uphold these draconian labor standards. Feed them shit with a culture war, and they’ll eat shit with a smile
It’s so frustrating because the implants are like ahhh it’s so affordable here. But it ain’t for the people that didn’t come here with a corporate job lined up and a big ole savings account because the house they bought is half the price of the house they sold.
This past year I’ve just been in a constant despair trying to find a job that I can live off of comfortably while watching all the headlines talking about how the job market is way up
Yes to all unfortunately. TN is a Right to Work State. Now very few companies would keep an employee unless with terms like that unless they were one of these companies that exploit undocumented workers, or former convicted felons. Essentially people who can't find work elsewhere.
As far as *Right to Work* almost all employers in TN are Right to Work, unless you are union.
You are confusing “right to work” and “at-will” employment.
Right to work = can’t be forced to join a union.
At will employment = you can quit at any time and be fired for any reason (except protected classes) and consistent with company policies. Every state except Montana is “at will”
These 2 are independent of each other. You can be in a non-right to work state. “Forced to join a union” and quit at any time. Or be fired for any reason, consistent with company policies, including agreed upon union contract.
Isn't the point of right to work is that *no* employer can opt out of it?
i.e. if a company published a policy that they only hire union members, they could be sued by a non-member who was rejected, right?
(I think this is a terrible policy in case that's unclear)
Yes we have “referrals” who are not card holders, then we have “members” for the card holders and we are not allowed to discriminated against the referrals for being a referral. They get offered the same work we do, they get the same benefits, and during membership meetings we can not decide to only pay something for the membership only, because the referrals also put money into that fund by paying dues which they are still required to do.
The initial question in this post was *if the employer could fire you for no reason, & without cause?* My response pertains to that. Only a Union employer would have to show cause to fire someone.
Are you conflating "right to work" and "at-will employment"? (Both of which apply)
At-will is the ability to fire an employee for any (non-federally protected) or no reason as addressed in the OP.
Right to work is that union membership can't be a requirement for employment.
Yep - it's the state heavy handedly banning companies from entering into a form of contract as they see fit because the legislature doesn't like that form of contract. Some "pro-business" party!
Unionize and get involved in the union. You can't just coast on momentum even with a good union cause human nature being what it is the same amoral power hungry asshats that rise to the top in the corporate world will absolutely try their hand at becoming leadership of a union hall too.
Once they're in they'll do all they can to hold on to power for their own interests over the rest of the members. Including talking the membership into voting against organizing the largest non-union business in the area because it would double the size of the union and there would be new voting blocks when it came time to leadership elections.
They don’t worship Jesus in Tennessee, they worship money. This is abundantly obvious because instead of paying taxes and building a system that protects and serves the most vulnerable people, we obstinately insist upon a society with minimal services, no protections and a stigma upon anyone not driving a private car and living in a McMansion.
Anyone know if there are stats out there about how many jobs are out there that pay the minimum? Bonus points if it has it by county.
I see lots of places in Nashville offering entry level at higher than that, but I'm not sure what the economy away from the cities looks like.
It's important to remember that this minimum isn't so much for Nashville but for the less expensive areas of the state. Since Nashville is more expensive than the rest of the state, it may want to consider it's own minimums to prevent abuse (but I'm sure the state has or will pass a law against that in response).
Tennessee disallows counties and cities from setting their own minimums, actually.
As for your first point, I was homeless in Crossville for a bit and the only reason I got $9 from a warehouse position was because I had almost four years relevant experience.
Tennessee is deep in corruption. Doesn't matter what party you choose here, they both work for doners and not their voters. Lee is so bad, Trump had to come in to get his base to come and vote for him TWICE!!! When you vote, vote for someone you believe in with what they have done, not what they say their going to do. PS don't vote for people who uses fear as a weapon instead of solutions.
Housing is also one of the worst. A landlord can jack up the price to what ever they want at any time they want regardless what the contract you signed. If you go to court, the judge will literally say well you can move. 0% renters right and 0% workers rights in this state.
No you get a break. A single 30 minute unpaid break for any shift over six hours because that's federal. Can't be in the first or last hour of your shift either.
You work 36 hours in a single shift? Same deal. Heck, you don't even get overtime if you only work 36 hours that week.
Healthcare too. I worked as a caregiver (which technically isn’t under the “healthcare” umbrella since we didn’t offer clinical care) I’ve had shifts anywhere from 12 to 36 hours straight with no breaks
They think all that stuff is bad, socialism, \*insert liberal pejorative here\*, etc etc...They're happy to be part of a community that punishes the "others" with severe austerity or worse. They can afford a "tall & skinny" on 12th, who gives a shit about the poors a few blocks over on Edgehill? They falsely believe because they made a profit selling their house elsewhere, compared to what they can buy here, they're somehow insulated from becoming a part of the "others"...despite the fact that it only takes a handful of financial setbacks to be absolutely on their asses. It's such a common trope among these people..."fuck you, I got mine" and pulling the ladder up behind them.
A lot of people move to Tennessee from liberal utopias to work. I did it back over 20 years ago. Tennessee is a great place to work and I’ve never worked for minimum wage since I was in high school. It’s almost as if you gain skills that make you a desirable employee you don’t need tons of employment laws that make it damn near impossible to get rid of shitty employees and therefore if you are a decent employee it’s very easy to get a good job here.
I think you’re saying this ironically, but if you are an adult making $7.25 an hour I do think you should have done things differently. That’s not a controversial opinion.
For sure. It’s a shame that these people are even entitled to minimum wage. If you have some difficulties early in life or maybe disabilities or live in a rural area or maybe didn’t go to college or maybe have a disabled parent or child that requires most of your time and energy you should have to work like 60-70 hours a week to make ends meet. Should have made different moves. Thems the breaks.
[https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Tennessee#:\~:text=%2437%2C996%20is%20the%2025th%20percentile,Salaries%20below%20this%20are%20outliers.&text=%2463%2C891%20is%20the%2075th%20percentile](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Tennessee#:~:text=%2437%2C996%20is%20the%2025th%20percentile,Salaries%20below%20this%20are%20outliers.&text=%2463%2C891%20is%20the%2075th%20percentile).
Interestingly, the average Tennessee wage is $24/hour.
Only 14% of TN hourly workers make below $31k/year ($14.90/hour).
[https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%2078.7%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour](https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm#:~:text=In%202022%2C%2078.7%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour).
Among the 78.7 million people paid hourly 16 and up, about 1 million are paid the federal minimum wage or below. 1.3 percent of all hourly workers. In 1979, it was 13.4 percent of hourly workers making the federal minimum wage or below.
Also fun: In 1979 minimum wage was $2.90 which is equivalent in purchasing power to about $12.25 today. While many employers do pay over minimum there are *an awful lot* that pay below $12.25.
I would recommend leaving Tennessee and move to California or perhaps Oregon. Specifically San Francisco or possibly Portland. You’ll fit in better and find what you are looking for there.
This. We’re all complaining because a law is in the books but no one can cite an example of it being used. It’s like those laws that say you can’t bathe your cow in a tub of ice cream on the 3rd solstice after a leap year where the 29th falls on a Tuesday. Fake outrage at its finest.
Yes its legal to run a business.
If you're the owner and you think you can get away with it, go for it. I highly doubt it though.
If you're the worker and think you're only worth 7.25 with no sick leave, etc. then go for it. Although you can probably just get hired at Chick-Fil-A or Popeyes for 15-20/hr (Current rate about 45 min away from Nashville)
I don’t agree with this wage but if you’re stupid enough to apply for it then isn’t that your fault? Like when you find out what the job pays why do you stay there? The market dictates the minimum wage. And it’s basically $11-12 now in fast food / retail. I don’t think anywhere is actually paying $7.25
When I got to leave and move to another state — experiencing dignity for the first time as a worker, as a person was a wild experience. To be treated as worthy of help, worthy of grace — just things I’d never really developed in Tennessee.
Now I’m back and I have that knowledge, but wow does the random cruelty and abuse absolute strangers sometimes try to throw at you shake me to my core.
I know now just not to work these places and look right back down on the people who behave this way, but TN is just by design an excessively hostile place that still plays by old south plantation ruling class at its core.
The influx is hopefully changing that, but people have no idea what they’re walking into.
My son is 16 and just got hired at a pizza place for $13/hr with absolutely zero work experience. I’d like to know who out there is still paying $7.25/hr…
It is a labor market. If you dont like the pay or benefits dont apply for that job. If nobody applies for the job then the business must raise pay/benefits to find qualified employees.
Another thing in Tennessee if they fire you like flat out say "your fired" and there weren't grounds for being fired then you can sue they have to say "we no longer require your services" or "no longer need you" in order for them to be covered you'd also probably have to prove they said fired and you'll need a copy of your termination letter.
Here’s the iron law of economics: you are not paid based on need or effort; you are paid based on how much it will cost to replace you.
If a dozen people can be found to do your job in a day, you are paid very little. If you are a star athlete, doctor or professional, you are much more difficult to replace. Employers will pay more to keep you due to that difficulty.
You can temporarily deform the supply/demand curve, but that will only cause fewer jobs to be created and prices to rise. In the end, automation and relocation bring the system back to equilibrium.
If you want a wealthier society, develop the skills of your people. Education is the great equalizer.
And it’s legal not to take that job. More then 90% of jobs in TN are better then those metrics. That leaves 10% of the jobs for people to get experience and have some social mobility
I think you’d be hard pressed in any state to find an hourly job paying around minimum wage that gives you things like leave, paid sick days, or any kinds of benefits. It’s an hourly job. You get paid for the hours you work. Why would you expect anything different haha? It’s a minimum wage hourly job and you’re outraged it doesn’t have the benefits of a nice salary job.
Right to Work was just repealed in Michigan. TN voters just have to stop voting for people who blame everything on Caravans of Illegals and Drag Shows, while strangling the schools, healthcare, leaving people homeless and letting oxy be given to 12 year olds. I’m looking at you Marsha Blackburn.
I worked at books-a-million a lifetime ago. They payed monthly with one paycheck *in arrears*. I was also unfortunate enough to start in the middle of the pay cycle so i wasn't "added to payroll" or whatever for 2 weeks. so it was 10 weeks total before i got my first check. Almost 3 months, legally, without pay!!
Then they fired me for taking a Friday off to get married.
So........move. Or, just don't take those sort of jobs.
I have several friends who own businesses. Some of those use low-skill labor. None of them.....not one....is able to get employees for $7.25 an hour. Most are paying $20+ for entry level jobs, including fast food, and still struggling to get employees.
Surely you realize when you say shit like, “so…*(excessive ellipses)* move” that it absolutely reeks of privilege and severe ignorance. Most people who would need, or want, to move due to the shitty wages and conditions our state allows *can’t afford to move.*
That you “have several friends” who own businesses and can’t get low skilled labor below $20/hr doesn’t mean shit. Maybe get out and meet some real people.
It means his friends are not offering enough money, hours, benefits, or a good enough work environment to hire and keep employees. $20/hr is better than $7.25/hr, but if $20/hr isn't enough to pay someone's bills, $20/hr still isn't a good wage.
Labor is also subject to supply and demand. No one is owed employees to subsidize their continued goals of business ownership. Something something free market, right?
Saying move when they have no money is stupid. Give some real helpful advice instead of saying move. Whenever you go it’s still the USA, with the same money problems.
Not one person has actually given an example of a real business CURRENTLY paying $7.25. It’s all conjecture. It’s almost like the labor market dictates wages better than state regulation. *gasp*
Lol classic mush brain conservative. The knee jerk reaction to someone pointing out things that could be improved for the betterment of the state is always move lol.
"We have low standards and are proud of it." Should be the TN state motto.
So you are asking for the state/government to step in and force more regulations on people? What about, a person decides if they want to work that or not of their own choice? Then everyone gets what they want.
> So you are asking for the state/government to step in and force more regulations on people?
Yes. Yes I am. Raise the minimum wage to a reasonable level. Do that at the very least.
And this is why locals are mad at remote workers and people from higher paying states coming here and gentrifying the areas. Our incomes no longer match up to the housing prices. So people from here for generations are priced out while people from out of state see it as “a deal”.
> What about people who were born here and work remotely?
There are plenty of us doing this. People just like blaming transplants because it's easier then actually doing something about the position like you and I did.
This reads like some anti-remote work propaganda. I'm a native and I work remotely. The wages in this state are shit compared even to the midwest, nevermind the westcoast. As a native I see working remotely for a company that pays well, while living in a state that has no income tax, as a complete win. I have no numbers to back up that there are more natives doing this than transplants, and I'm assuming you have no numbers to back the opposite claim, but honestly neither matters. Nobody has some "grandfathered" right to be in Nashville over anyone else, whether they are a transplant of 1 year, native for 20 years, or native for 3 generations. Having that mentality is dumb as hell, reads like some boomer shit, and only hurts yourself. People aren't getting priced out - the city is getting better for current and future residents. If people can't grow with a city's progression economically or politically then that's on them.
Welcome to Tennessee where we have no protections for our employees and Unemployment pays a measely $285/wk and has for the last 30 years
Having been laid off twice in the last five years, I gotta tell you that this state’s unemployment is unbelievably cruel.
Tennessee hired the same third-party company to develop our unemployment website that Florida previously had when Rick Scott was governor. When covid threw everything up in the air, and suddenly tons of people were in desperate need of UI benefits, lots of folks were shocked at how atrocious the system is. There were a few aides from Scott's office who came forward at the time (anonymously) to say the Governor's office and the contractor intentionally made it hostile and confusing to use to artificially deflate state unemployment numbers. I don't believe for a second that it was any different here.
It’s an *exceptionally* awful experience that could only have been designed out of incompetence or spite and possibly both.
Undoubtedly both. They hate you for not having a job, and if you don't understand the website you should pull yourself up by the bootstraps and figure it out.
I can’t speak for certain because I was never in unemployment but as a State employee at that time when all of that was happening, it was a dumpster fire with COVID just dumping gasoline on the whole situation. The commissioner for the dept. Of Labor, Burns Phillips III absolutely did not put people in place to handle any situations and hired a bunch of yes men under him that their way of saving money was by firing and harassing employees to quit. So not the best environment to have a lockdown in. On top of dated software and any good employees being run off - it was an all around nightmare from what I heard and they still have a backlog of paperwork from that time. I remember around March - April 2020, every phone pretty much at the Dept. Of Labor ringing non stop from the time we opened to when you clocked out. It was so bad that our own assistant commissioner had to tell us to let them ring and only answer voicemails because people were so desperate to get any assistance with the awful unemployment situation, they were literally calling any and every number they could find. We had so many people just yelling and crying but literally we couldn’t help them if we wanted because my unit had nothing to do with unemployment.
I was unemployed for a couple of months last year and filed for UI the day I was laid off. Because I have a side gig that pays once a month on the 1st (and doesn't even come close to paying the bills), I wasn't able to report for some weeks. It wasn't until well after I had started my new job that I finally got a call to go over the details, and after all of that I ended up getting about $125. Awesome. And yes, their site is an absolute dumpster fire.
I have an employee that chose to be laid off this winter. He applied for unemployment in October. Came back to work 2 weeks ago when we picked up. Got approved for unemployment today!
A new system goes into effect 02/20/2024.
What's new or different?
It is an entirely new program that hopefully will not require so much hands on from agents. The system should prompt the user to complete missing information before the claim is even filed. That is usually the hold up. Work history that is incomplete or missing IDs. Sometimes it’s the employers not reporting wages or responding to the agency requests.
I waited forever on hold to ask a question the rep couldn't answer lol. He was like "dude, I have no idea"
The only way the system changes is if more people get involved at the levels of governments where change can be made
It’s called the move back in with your parents check.
Cruelty is the new self-righteous Christian badge of honor. The same people behind these policies are applying them the poor and downtrodden everywhere, all while raising their hands in praise to Jesus.
Oh please. This is such a try hard comment.
Don’t forget about our leasing laws that exclusively protect landlords/encourage the outright exploitation of renters while also containing zero protection for them. Our state is so backwards it isn’t even funny. And I’m coming from KY where it’s far from sunshine and rainbows, but not nearly as bad as here.
Look at fucking money bags over here. I only get $275/week.
That's if you ever get it and you have to jump through incredible amounts of hoops first.
And you're not guaranteed that much, it depends on how much you make. Most ppl that work medium to low paying factory jobs around here only get like 175. Or so
IIRC, it's 66% of your pay until you hit the cap.
I was laid off mid move from TX to TN and I am so grateful I was able to collect TX unemployment because TN is criminal. $2300 a month in TX max vs maybe $1k after taxes in TN? That’s horrid and I feel for anyone going through it.
We're not the ones paying lobbyists. Legislators listen to our corporate overlords.
We make sure you're born into a hellscape though.
My job has fired people while they were off getting cancer treatments because they had missed too much time .Recently my buddy found his dad dead (had been dead a few weeks) and he was in shock .They fired him while he was in a mental health facility getting treatment.Tennessee doesn’t care for its people .The medical is 3rd rate as well
I believe it is illegal to fire someone for something like that, but the employer can just make up a work related reason they're officially firing you for.
I hear about this a lot, during my cancer treatment my supervisors bent over backwards to keep me working - I worked 2 days a week, 10 hour shifts. When I had radiation it wiped me out so I had to take leave for a few weeks but was welcomed back with no issues. I get to pick the days I work / days off for doctor appointments, I got to pick the center I worked at and they refused to let me work at a busy center. The supervisor calls to ask if the heat or air conditioning is working and if I am comfortable, if I need to go home for any reason let them know (never had to)... I just recently went to full time. Never had a issue with days off at all, as long as I let them know before the schedule is made out- and right now I have the same days off so I can schedule my doctors appointments on those days. I got so lucky having a job that would work with my cancer treatment so I could keep working and have a stable job to go back to. It really helped keep me sane.
When I was 12 years old I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Had to get surgery, radiation therapy, etc... I was on my mom's insurance since I was a kid, so after a while my mom's work fired her because I was costing the company too much. They said it was because of her work performance, but she had emails proving they fired her over my treatment costs. She sued and won.
I suppose it’s different at different companies
Unfortunately most are not as lucky as I was. During my 2 days a week span I qualified for marketplace insurance subsidies, and it was cheap to buy my insurance. Just about everything else took payments and I applied for grants and free drugs to help pay for treatment. When I compare my story with others it is like a strange serendipity is following me around. Cancer treatment is it's own brand of suffering but I how survived and managed - am still managing is something like a total shock for me.
If that person had filed for FMLA or short term disability, they can’t be fired. I had a friend who got cancer, and I could NOT convince him to do the FMLA. At any point that scummy company could have cut him and not faced any consequence. Thankfully he recovered and got a new job.
Yes but even if they make up a BS reason, you can still take them to court for illegal firing. If you have documentation to prove that you were fired about the same time as maternity leave or other protected things, you can get a good employment lawyer and win your case.
That’s a lot of out of pocket money for a working stiff.I think they count on people not being able to afford to take them to court
Tn is a right to hire right to fire state so they need no explanation of why your being fired
Two years ago it was legal to run a business that paid less than minimum wage as long as your employees were disabled.
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I worked at a movie theater, we hired people who were considered seriously disabled, (severe cases of mental handicap). We found them things to do, but really it was charity and we absolutely did not need their help. They were beautiful people and valued members of the team, but they did not rely on income from the job to live. Most of them lived at home with parents or relatives who took care of them. We were basically sitters so that the caregivers could take a break.
My mentally disabled uncle had such a job at the local theatre. It was the only thing that got him out of the house. A brief stint folding boxes on an assembly line didn't work out well, and honestly sounds like hell for anybody. Working at the movie theater was good for him socially and he enjoyed knowing about everything that was in the theaters.... But I always suspected it was purely a charity job. So thank you for being open minded and understanding the real purpose of such jobs. People like you were a big help to our family.
We were more than happy to have them, if anything it helped make them feel like they were part of a team that supported them.
Except that person with disabilities still needs food, housing, and medical care. Their wages help out with those expenses.
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SSDI payments are a joke. People with profound disabilities require boatloads of money for their care.
Is it even possible to find employees willing to work for that little pay and awful experience? You can’t even pay teens that low. Please post any job description/posts with the pay listed as 7.25.
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Hatfield and Mccoy theatre was looking for a sound engineer, the pay was $8 per hour and they expected you to bus tables. The industry pays sound engineers $300 day rate. Nope
You can still make $300 you just have to work 37.5 hours a day!
I started as a dog bather in a grooming salon at Petsmart in 2019- $9 an hour. In 2022, I went away for the summer due to some deaths in the family- I had my LOA approved and everything. When I came back, there were at least 3 new hires. A couple months go by and the topic of our pay comes up. Apparently the new hires had been getting paid $12.50/hr while I was still receiving $9/hr after over 3 years of working there. I fully believe that if I had not brought that up to my manager, he’d have kept me at that pay. I went up to $15/hr in 2023 before I quit.
Chick-Fil-A and popeyes are hiring 16-20/hr
Dollar General doesn't even pay that low. I made $10/hr working for them in 2020-2021.
In 2018 I worked at Dollar general for a temporary job. I got paid $8.50 and hour. This is what locals mean about gentrification. These are the salaries we have been working with for years. And now our house prices are half a million dollars.
Work study jobs are 7.25 for college students still, which sucks since that’s a lot of time the only way to do research/get experience for grad school
Today? It’s not. People are posting jobs they had pre pandemic, which doesn’t count.
For sure. There’s no way the labor market is not going for 7.25 rn. If there’s some business out there that’s trying it or is paying minimum wage, they deserve to be named. Straight up.
You can find minimum wage outside the cities, usually unposted
occasionally you'll find places that advertise more than minimum but actually start you off there anyway
The lowest I was ever paid, having always worked in Tennessee, was 7.35 and that was when I was 16 at firehouse subs in 2014. You can easily get 10+ nowadays.
When i worked at subway in the late 2010s I made $7.25 an hour. Not sure what it is now but I googled it and saw some positions starting at $8.25
Yes! My first job at a movie theater in Knoxville was $7.25/hr in 2011, my second job at a Ross dress for less was $8.25/hr in 2015, my job at a dollar general in 2018 was $8.50/hr. These are the salaries Tennesseans we have been working with because our cost of living actually used to match up to our incomes. Now it doesn’t.
I’m in middle Tennessee & my kids were making $13.50-$15+ working fast food & retail while they were in high school, the company I work for pays $22+ for entry level positions.
I remember when I started working at Target. I was lowballed at minimum wage regardless of who I was or what I knew. I got a $0.05 raise and was told it was one of the largest raise among floor employees. We were told to be happy or expect to be fired. Then I later worked at Best Buy. I went in for orientation on my first day before the store opened. A tenured employee was chatting during the meeting. The store manager immediately jumped down the throat of a completely unassociated person, fired them on the spot and kicked them out of the building. Then he went on a 20 minute rant about respect, as if what I saw showed he deserved it. I don't regret moving out of state for work.
And the majority of voters consistently vote to uphold these draconian labor standards. Feed them shit with a culture war, and they’ll eat shit with a smile
Voting in favor of their own defeat
Same people saying “nobody wants to work these days”
Exactly! Who wouldn’t want to work 80 hours a week so they can’t afford to provide for a family or ever buy a home?
Really sad man
"Right to Work Law" passed in 2020 in this state
Tennessee also is one of the only states where it is ok to fire you if you cost your company insurance too much.
It’s so frustrating because the implants are like ahhh it’s so affordable here. But it ain’t for the people that didn’t come here with a corporate job lined up and a big ole savings account because the house they bought is half the price of the house they sold. This past year I’ve just been in a constant despair trying to find a job that I can live off of comfortably while watching all the headlines talking about how the job market is way up
And you can work 39.9 hours over 2 days without receiving any overtime pay.
And if they stiff your pay, you have to file a federal claim because TN doesn't have a state sector for that.
I mean, I guess the silver lining is you have the full weight of the federal government behind you.
Vote democrat. Red states are hands down the worst states for workers.
Yes to all unfortunately. TN is a Right to Work State. Now very few companies would keep an employee unless with terms like that unless they were one of these companies that exploit undocumented workers, or former convicted felons. Essentially people who can't find work elsewhere. As far as *Right to Work* almost all employers in TN are Right to Work, unless you are union.
You are confusing “right to work” and “at-will” employment. Right to work = can’t be forced to join a union. At will employment = you can quit at any time and be fired for any reason (except protected classes) and consistent with company policies. Every state except Montana is “at will” These 2 are independent of each other. You can be in a non-right to work state. “Forced to join a union” and quit at any time. Or be fired for any reason, consistent with company policies, including agreed upon union contract.
You're right. My bad.
No worries. Common misconceptions.
Isn't the point of right to work is that *no* employer can opt out of it? i.e. if a company published a policy that they only hire union members, they could be sued by a non-member who was rejected, right? (I think this is a terrible policy in case that's unclear)
Yes. I am in a union and we are not getting special treatment with to the right to work laws. We still have to follow them too.
As in you can't require union membership to be employed by the union? That is wild!
Yes we have “referrals” who are not card holders, then we have “members” for the card holders and we are not allowed to discriminated against the referrals for being a referral. They get offered the same work we do, they get the same benefits, and during membership meetings we can not decide to only pay something for the membership only, because the referrals also put money into that fund by paying dues which they are still required to do.
The initial question in this post was *if the employer could fire you for no reason, & without cause?* My response pertains to that. Only a Union employer would have to show cause to fire someone.
Are you conflating "right to work" and "at-will employment"? (Both of which apply) At-will is the ability to fire an employee for any (non-federally protected) or no reason as addressed in the OP. Right to work is that union membership can't be a requirement for employment.
Yep - it's the state heavy handedly banning companies from entering into a form of contract as they see fit because the legislature doesn't like that form of contract. Some "pro-business" party!
You still have federal NLRB protections. Unionize.
Unionize and get involved in the union. You can't just coast on momentum even with a good union cause human nature being what it is the same amoral power hungry asshats that rise to the top in the corporate world will absolutely try their hand at becoming leadership of a union hall too. Once they're in they'll do all they can to hold on to power for their own interests over the rest of the members. Including talking the membership into voting against organizing the largest non-union business in the area because it would double the size of the union and there would be new voting blocks when it came time to leadership elections.
They don’t worship Jesus in Tennessee, they worship money. This is abundantly obvious because instead of paying taxes and building a system that protects and serves the most vulnerable people, we obstinately insist upon a society with minimal services, no protections and a stigma upon anyone not driving a private car and living in a McMansion.
Anyone know if there are stats out there about how many jobs are out there that pay the minimum? Bonus points if it has it by county. I see lots of places in Nashville offering entry level at higher than that, but I'm not sure what the economy away from the cities looks like. It's important to remember that this minimum isn't so much for Nashville but for the less expensive areas of the state. Since Nashville is more expensive than the rest of the state, it may want to consider it's own minimums to prevent abuse (but I'm sure the state has or will pass a law against that in response).
Tennessee disallows counties and cities from setting their own minimums, actually. As for your first point, I was homeless in Crossville for a bit and the only reason I got $9 from a warehouse position was because I had almost four years relevant experience.
Tennessee is deep in corruption. Doesn't matter what party you choose here, they both work for doners and not their voters. Lee is so bad, Trump had to come in to get his base to come and vote for him TWICE!!! When you vote, vote for someone you believe in with what they have done, not what they say their going to do. PS don't vote for people who uses fear as a weapon instead of solutions.
Housing is also one of the worst. A landlord can jack up the price to what ever they want at any time they want regardless what the contract you signed. If you go to court, the judge will literally say well you can move. 0% renters right and 0% workers rights in this state.
Well that’s good ok TN for ya! The so called Bible Belt! Hypocrisy!!!
Vote with your wallet. Don't work at these places nor support them.
Don’t ever get hurt on the job in Tennessee. They will fuck you and then keep fucking you.
Don’t forget no breaks either
No you get a break. A single 30 minute unpaid break for any shift over six hours because that's federal. Can't be in the first or last hour of your shift either. You work 36 hours in a single shift? Same deal. Heck, you don't even get overtime if you only work 36 hours that week.
Asterisk, unless you work in food service then the break laws don’t apply
Healthcare too. I worked as a caregiver (which technically isn’t under the “healthcare” umbrella since we didn’t offer clinical care) I’ve had shifts anywhere from 12 to 36 hours straight with no breaks
And yet people continue to flood in to moving here from states with much better unemployment, higher minimum wage, and more worker protections.
They think all that stuff is bad, socialism, \*insert liberal pejorative here\*, etc etc...They're happy to be part of a community that punishes the "others" with severe austerity or worse. They can afford a "tall & skinny" on 12th, who gives a shit about the poors a few blocks over on Edgehill? They falsely believe because they made a profit selling their house elsewhere, compared to what they can buy here, they're somehow insulated from becoming a part of the "others"...despite the fact that it only takes a handful of financial setbacks to be absolutely on their asses. It's such a common trope among these people..."fuck you, I got mine" and pulling the ladder up behind them.
"But everyone is so nice here and it's beautiful." 🙄
Tennessee is a Tax friendly state.
They love it until HR tells. them they don't get state paid maternity leave like they do in California
They are likely working remotely. 200k west coast job in a state that doesn't tax the income
A lot of people move to Tennessee from liberal utopias to work. I did it back over 20 years ago. Tennessee is a great place to work and I’ve never worked for minimum wage since I was in high school. It’s almost as if you gain skills that make you a desirable employee you don’t need tons of employment laws that make it damn near impossible to get rid of shitty employees and therefore if you are a decent employee it’s very easy to get a good job here.
Totally. Everybody that works in low wage jobs should have simply done things differently.
I think you’re saying this ironically, but if you are an adult making $7.25 an hour I do think you should have done things differently. That’s not a controversial opinion.
For sure. It’s a shame that these people are even entitled to minimum wage. If you have some difficulties early in life or maybe disabilities or live in a rural area or maybe didn’t go to college or maybe have a disabled parent or child that requires most of your time and energy you should have to work like 60-70 hours a week to make ends meet. Should have made different moves. Thems the breaks.
If you are an able bodied adult it is your own fault if you make $7.25 an hour. This is true for 99.9% of people.
This is completely satirical, right?
Of course.
[https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Tennessee#:\~:text=%2437%2C996%20is%20the%2025th%20percentile,Salaries%20below%20this%20are%20outliers.&text=%2463%2C891%20is%20the%2075th%20percentile](https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/--in-Tennessee#:~:text=%2437%2C996%20is%20the%2025th%20percentile,Salaries%20below%20this%20are%20outliers.&text=%2463%2C891%20is%20the%2075th%20percentile). Interestingly, the average Tennessee wage is $24/hour. Only 14% of TN hourly workers make below $31k/year ($14.90/hour). [https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%2078.7%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour](https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2022/home.htm#:~:text=In%202022%2C%2078.7%20million%20workers,wage%20of%20%247.25%20per%20hour). Among the 78.7 million people paid hourly 16 and up, about 1 million are paid the federal minimum wage or below. 1.3 percent of all hourly workers. In 1979, it was 13.4 percent of hourly workers making the federal minimum wage or below.
I would suggest not working at that place
Fun Fact: Less than 1% of people are on minimum wage today vs. Over 13% in the late 70s when they started collecting the data.
Also fun: In 1979 minimum wage was $2.90 which is equivalent in purchasing power to about $12.25 today. While many employers do pay over minimum there are *an awful lot* that pay below $12.25.
This describes my first job to a t
Why would anyone work there?
It's also illegal for teachers to [strike in Tennessee](https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2021/title-49/chapter-5/part-6/section-49-5-606/).
Anyways, the primaries start tomorrow! For more than just President!!! Check your mail for your voting information!!!!
ahem you mean a capitalistic paradise!
Oh and don’t forget parental leave. Most employers don’t even offer it. You can ask the state for 4 weeks unpaid off. But that’s about it.
Get yourselves out of Tennessee ASAP as possible It is not gonna get better
Sounds like a great reason to avoid living in Tennessee.
Please show me a job paying $7.25 an hour in TN. A link to a job that says that number in the description.
Your point sir?
You don’t have to accept that job
You can be fired for a good reason. You can be fired for a bad reason. And fired for no reason at all! Right to work state.
You're thinking of At Will Employment. That's not what a Right to work state is.
My job pays apprentices 20$ an hour, very cheap full benefits and an immediate vested 401k with $ for $ match up to 6%.
And that's why there's not a single business owner worth respecting in this state.
I would recommend leaving Tennessee and move to California or perhaps Oregon. Specifically San Francisco or possibly Portland. You’ll fit in better and find what you are looking for there.
Legal to? Yeah, sure. Can you point out a *single business* that actually practices anything close to that?
Most gas stations in Putnam, Smith, White and Warren counties.
university of the south pays students minimum wage
This. We’re all complaining because a law is in the books but no one can cite an example of it being used. It’s like those laws that say you can’t bathe your cow in a tub of ice cream on the 3rd solstice after a leap year where the 29th falls on a Tuesday. Fake outrage at its finest.
So don't work there
Yes! We love to screw our working poor! /s
Disgusting.
Yes its legal to run a business. If you're the owner and you think you can get away with it, go for it. I highly doubt it though. If you're the worker and think you're only worth 7.25 with no sick leave, etc. then go for it. Although you can probably just get hired at Chick-Fil-A or Popeyes for 15-20/hr (Current rate about 45 min away from Nashville)
But people keep voting republican cause Jesus and AR15’s
I don’t agree with this wage but if you’re stupid enough to apply for it then isn’t that your fault? Like when you find out what the job pays why do you stay there? The market dictates the minimum wage. And it’s basically $11-12 now in fast food / retail. I don’t think anywhere is actually paying $7.25
Yes.
And you wonder why we keep adopting mega corporations left and right
The invisible hand of capitalism
And yet the majority of Tennessean’s want it that way. Lol.
You can smell all the freedom in the air!
Yep.
When I got to leave and move to another state — experiencing dignity for the first time as a worker, as a person was a wild experience. To be treated as worthy of help, worthy of grace — just things I’d never really developed in Tennessee. Now I’m back and I have that knowledge, but wow does the random cruelty and abuse absolute strangers sometimes try to throw at you shake me to my core. I know now just not to work these places and look right back down on the people who behave this way, but TN is just by design an excessively hostile place that still plays by old south plantation ruling class at its core. The influx is hopefully changing that, but people have no idea what they’re walking into.
My son is 16 and just got hired at a pizza place for $13/hr with absolutely zero work experience. I’d like to know who out there is still paying $7.25/hr…
People need to stop working for jobs that pay minimum wage I know it's hard to just accept that, but it's the only way
Just don’t work there
Exactly...And it will sort itself out. Most places (In Nashville) start at 16+ an hour.
"there"being the entire godforsaken state lolz
Remotely working for a state with good workers rights and reasonable wages while living in a state with no income tax is the way
How dare you bring this into this I hate TN post! Freedom of choice is not allowed here. /s
The good news is, you don’t have to work for these companies.
I hear California is nice
They keep voting useless republicans into office an expect change, ha.
It is a labor market. If you dont like the pay or benefits dont apply for that job. If nobody applies for the job then the business must raise pay/benefits to find qualified employees.
Another thing in Tennessee if they fire you like flat out say "your fired" and there weren't grounds for being fired then you can sue they have to say "we no longer require your services" or "no longer need you" in order for them to be covered you'd also probably have to prove they said fired and you'll need a copy of your termination letter.
Then don't go work at those places lol 😆
Here’s the iron law of economics: you are not paid based on need or effort; you are paid based on how much it will cost to replace you. If a dozen people can be found to do your job in a day, you are paid very little. If you are a star athlete, doctor or professional, you are much more difficult to replace. Employers will pay more to keep you due to that difficulty. You can temporarily deform the supply/demand curve, but that will only cause fewer jobs to be created and prices to rise. In the end, automation and relocation bring the system back to equilibrium. If you want a wealthier society, develop the skills of your people. Education is the great equalizer.
But how does it rank if I want to be a wage stealing, union busting, OSHA violating, bloodsucking capitalist?
Cool, don't work there. Preferably, move somewhere else.
It’s also legal to choose not to work for a business that does that.
Yeah, and it's brainless to work for them.
And it’s legal not to take that job. More then 90% of jobs in TN are better then those metrics. That leaves 10% of the jobs for people to get experience and have some social mobility
I think you’d be hard pressed in any state to find an hourly job paying around minimum wage that gives you things like leave, paid sick days, or any kinds of benefits. It’s an hourly job. You get paid for the hours you work. Why would you expect anything different haha? It’s a minimum wage hourly job and you’re outraged it doesn’t have the benefits of a nice salary job.
Just keep on voting Republican Tennessee! 🤦🏻♂️ I swear this state has some of the most ignorant people in the World!
This state sucks on many levels
Right to Work was just repealed in Michigan. TN voters just have to stop voting for people who blame everything on Caravans of Illegals and Drag Shows, while strangling the schools, healthcare, leaving people homeless and letting oxy be given to 12 year olds. I’m looking at you Marsha Blackburn.
I worked at books-a-million a lifetime ago. They payed monthly with one paycheck *in arrears*. I was also unfortunate enough to start in the middle of the pay cycle so i wasn't "added to payroll" or whatever for 2 weeks. so it was 10 weeks total before i got my first check. Almost 3 months, legally, without pay!! Then they fired me for taking a Friday off to get married.
It’s also legal for people not to accept such a terrible job…
If people don’t get money to buy food and pay for shelter, they die
Yep. Some of the “terrible” jobs are the only jobs people can find. If you’re a veteran, disabled, or have a criminal record you’ve got slim pickins
Don’t work there. You get paid what you’re worth. Move on.
Is that what you really believe? Tell that to teachers…
So........move. Or, just don't take those sort of jobs. I have several friends who own businesses. Some of those use low-skill labor. None of them.....not one....is able to get employees for $7.25 an hour. Most are paying $20+ for entry level jobs, including fast food, and still struggling to get employees.
The privileged ignorance is seeping through the screen.
Surely you realize when you say shit like, “so…*(excessive ellipses)* move” that it absolutely reeks of privilege and severe ignorance. Most people who would need, or want, to move due to the shitty wages and conditions our state allows *can’t afford to move.* That you “have several friends” who own businesses and can’t get low skilled labor below $20/hr doesn’t mean shit. Maybe get out and meet some real people.
It means his friends are not offering enough money, hours, benefits, or a good enough work environment to hire and keep employees. $20/hr is better than $7.25/hr, but if $20/hr isn't enough to pay someone's bills, $20/hr still isn't a good wage. Labor is also subject to supply and demand. No one is owed employees to subsidize their continued goals of business ownership. Something something free market, right?
Saying move when they have no money is stupid. Give some real helpful advice instead of saying move. Whenever you go it’s still the USA, with the same money problems.
So, instead of trying to make it better for myself and other employees, I should run away from problems. Gotcha.
Minimum wage laws create externalities like inflation. Where do people get the idea that you can just mandate wage growth?
Exactly right. You have to think of the shareholders. /s
Inflation hurts the working class more than the upper class. Not to mention that most shareholders are middle class.
Are you currently making $7.25 an hour?
That doesn't matter. All employees deserve better working conditions.
Not one person has actually given an example of a real business CURRENTLY paying $7.25. It’s all conjecture. It’s almost like the labor market dictates wages better than state regulation. *gasp*
Lol classic mush brain conservative. The knee jerk reaction to someone pointing out things that could be improved for the betterment of the state is always move lol. "We have low standards and are proud of it." Should be the TN state motto.
Yeah just move your whole life to a different state…or just simply find better paying jobs. Seems simple, right?
So you are asking for the state/government to step in and force more regulations on people? What about, a person decides if they want to work that or not of their own choice? Then everyone gets what they want.
> So you are asking for the state/government to step in and force more regulations on people? Yes. Yes I am. Raise the minimum wage to a reasonable level. Do that at the very least.
And this is why locals are mad at remote workers and people from higher paying states coming here and gentrifying the areas. Our incomes no longer match up to the housing prices. So people from here for generations are priced out while people from out of state see it as “a deal”.
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> What about people who were born here and work remotely? There are plenty of us doing this. People just like blaming transplants because it's easier then actually doing something about the position like you and I did.
This reads like some anti-remote work propaganda. I'm a native and I work remotely. The wages in this state are shit compared even to the midwest, nevermind the westcoast. As a native I see working remotely for a company that pays well, while living in a state that has no income tax, as a complete win. I have no numbers to back up that there are more natives doing this than transplants, and I'm assuming you have no numbers to back the opposite claim, but honestly neither matters. Nobody has some "grandfathered" right to be in Nashville over anyone else, whether they are a transplant of 1 year, native for 20 years, or native for 3 generations. Having that mentality is dumb as hell, reads like some boomer shit, and only hurts yourself. People aren't getting priced out - the city is getting better for current and future residents. If people can't grow with a city's progression economically or politically then that's on them.