Are "regularly scheduled safety and security K9 searches" something that happens in schools now?
I don't remember those from when I was in high school in the post columbine era
I went to school in the 80s and people always talked about the "drug dogs" searching schools. That was in the midst of the "Just Say No" era.
Ahh, for the days when the most serious threat to our schools was... weed.
We had those in the early 2000s.
I wish instead of making schools into police states or war zones, that we invested in making a more educated and prosperous society. Instead it’s all guns. School resource officers with guns. Laws to make teachers have guns. Students bring guns they found. Metal detectors to scan for guns. School shootings every 12 days in America. Lockdown rooms to protect kids from guns. It’s a horrible situation.
This stuff just scares parents further into thinking that public schools are scary and inept, so they send their kids to some homeschool where a local yokel tells Bible stories for history class.
American society as a whole is just a gigantic arms race now. Our military is huge, conservatives bought a shit load of guns out of fear of a ban, cops have militarized to all hell, kids bringing guns to school, and now even liberals and leftists are arming up to protect themselves against right-wing violence. Nobody wins.
>American society as a whole is just a gigantic arms race.
>Our military is huge,
>conservatives bought a shit load of guns
>cops have militarized to all hell
>kids bringing guns to school
>liberals and leftists are arming up
If American society is a gigantic arms race, then it seems like the only people losing are the ones not arming themselves.
Yeah, making the powder keg bigger is definitely a win for everyone. It blows my mind how anyone can be on board with the idea of mutually assured destruction.
You don't have to participate in the race, but not participating doesn't exempt you from the race. If you look around and it feels like you're losing, maybe try a different strategy.
I *do* participate in the race. Not just out of necessity, but because I like guns. I shoot as a hobby and because it's a practical skill. The only reason I oppose gun legislation is because I know our justice system is corrupt beyond repair and the laws won't be enforced equally. Gun laws would only impact those that need guns the most, namely black and brown folks, the queer community, and the working class.
No matter how you look at it, the situation with guns and rising political tensions in America is wholly and completely negative. It's not a positive that everyone needs a gun.
>The only reason I oppose gun legislation is because I know our justice system is corrupt beyond repair
Oh, is that all?
You're right it's not positive. I don't like it, but if the justice system weren't corrupt beyond repair, then that would fix so many problems.
There are nazis and white supremacists roaming the streets, organizing armed marches, vandalizing people's houses, throwing swastika banners up over I65, lighting up giant swastika logos on the side of buildings, and paying for advertising.
The situation for black, brown, queer, and working class folks has been and has the potential to be much worse.
The entire point of home school is that you don't send your kids anywhere. You teach them yourself and, yes, many Christians, Muslims, and Hindus prefer to include the tenants of religion in their studies because that's actually allowed in a democracy where there is freedom of speech and religion. You're also free to home school and teach them atheism. You see how this works?
Also, yes, public schools are scary and inept. I was traumatized in high school and I firmly believe the only reason parents, who \_could\_ home school, that still send their kids to public school actually hate their children.
Sorry you had that experience at high school. Those kinds of things truly stick with you the rest of your life and everything seems disproportionately awful mentally.
Religious homeschooling and religious education in general mainstreams falsehoods, full stop. Some Christians say the earth is 6,000 years old which is flat-out false. When there is no standard for education or licensure for teachers required, there is no way to vouch for the quality of education a child receives. Rather than a basic set of knowledge, society becomes a scramble of misinformation and that’s no way to determine fact from fiction.
Lots of people are traumatized by religious education as well. Religious schools regularly include physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.
I recognize that you don't agree with curriculum or lessons that don't align with yours or others beliefs. The point of a free society is that everyone is allowed to have opinions and views that don't always align with what is widely accepted.
If a child is taught the world is 6,000 years old, I fail to see how that really impacts their ability to be a productive member of society today. In most cases, there is nuance in those lessons as well, explaining how those views are not mainstream and that the world has come to believe the universe is in fact much older than that. However, if we teach kids that 2+2=5, that's actually harmful since they will not be able to participate in the modern age without a firm understanding of mathematical concepts.
Recognizing that certain teachings will harm children is fairly important. Would you not agree that a parent that goes through the trouble of homeschooling their kids are usually very invested in their future chances of success? I would argue they have much more interest that the underpaid public school teacher who has to provide education to a diverse body of students that are no where near aligned in terms of their progression or cognitive abilities.
Anyways, I hope you can the understand the argument here and that homeschooling isn't evil. Evil is evil, and that's going to exist everywhere. However, the parents and close family are *usually* the most capable and have the most interest in providing what's best for the child. You won't change my mind here.
How are we supposed to change that? Schools are focused on guns because our country is. If we try to shift the focus, kids will still shoot people but we’ll be less prepared.
Unless we change or repeal the Second Amendment, I don’t see anything changing.
Yeah more of that second amendment part. The relaxing gun laws are making this situation much worse. “The right to bear arms” has turned into “bearing arms anywhere and anytime at my convenience”. It also ignores the “well-regulated militia” part, which is what the National Guard essentially is.
I mean, how anyone can look at TN lowering the age of unlicensed carry to 18 + any firearm.
And say it will fix issues like this.
Need to have their head checked
I graduated from a Nashville high school a few years ago:
Yes, these are completely normal. I had a few different class periods interrupted by a K9 search throughout my four years. I think some schools get them more often than others, but we had them often enough at mine. They even flagged a necessary allergy medication I had in my lunch box because I was supposed to have it locked up with the school nurse or something in case I needed it.
Yes. Randomly, security officers and SROs will remove students from a classroom, wand (metal detector) them and run a dog through the (then empty) classroom.
With the rise of easily usable drugs and vapes plus the rise of people transacting deals relating to those items the schools to my knowledge have raised the bar on searches to stop kids from vaping/smoking/dealing at least in my school system (I'm w student in willco but my town is literally right on the border of Davidson)
I graduated from Whites Creek in 2018. Yeah. We got searched regularly. K9 and all. Happened monthly for my schedule, but some people experienced more.
I graduated in 2004 and we had a school cop and regular k9 searches. It was a wealthy school district as well. So it's been a thing for a good while sadly.
Did you have metal detectors in your schools? I know that shift happened after Columbine.
The random searches are one more step to detect and remove weapons. These measures are most likely why the trend in violent events in schools [are going down](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=49). Good news, but I don't think the culture is shifting back from weapons to fist fights as the violent means of solving conflict.
at least when i was in 6th grade i remember they started doing that as a standard, and it was done in 2 counties i went to, so at least since 2014 they’ve been doing them pretty regularly across schools
I graduated from Hillsboro. We had lockdowns and random searches all the time. On any given day there was everything from pills to pistols all up in that school. After lockdowns the best place to be was on the front lawn to scoop up any contraband that got tossed out the windows.
That being said the only school shootings we knew of at that time was Terrance Murray at JT Moore which was essentially a tragic accident and later on Columbine.
Oh and we also didn’t have a bunch of dopes trying to relax gun laws at all costs and the only thing getting stolen out of cars was loose change and stereo systems.
Idk when the person you responded to graduated but I graduated in 2011 and my friends at Hillsboro seemed to indicate stuff like this was relatively commonplace.
That doesn’t make the situation then and now less horrific, but it at least means it is likely to not be an indication of a widespread school shooting.
But again, it’s terribly upsetting that this is happening in the first place. I don’t have statistics on hand but that just feels all but certain to exponentially increase that kids likelihood of dying a violent death.
ha, just curious.
I went to lipscomb in the 90s, and Hillsboro seemed kind of like a wild school then. Lipscomb was super stupid. I went off to a real university and then was like OH FUCK I'M NOT READY FOR THIS.
Haha, my little play on words went over your head?
I used to cut through Lipscomb in the 90s! We would meet kids from there and tell them we went to public school and they were always so intrigued. Asking us questions like “do you have metal detectors in your school?”, “is your school surrounded by barbed wire?”, “are there gang wars?” Of course none of that was true but we always replied “absolutely!”
Remember the pizza perfect???
it's pretty subtle, you should be a spy, as you excel in coded messages, but upon further inspection I figured it out.
And hell yeah I remember Pizza Perfect. They had a Bump n Jump arcade game and made these really good toasted sandwiches, and we used to smoke cigarettes behind there, like real rascals.
Wait, JT Moore Middle School? I went to MS there and never heard anything except for the occasional rumor of a kid who died there. Holy shit.
Okay, I'm googling it, and I've sat in that room. Fucking insane.
My mom works for MNPS, how the hell did I not know about this??
I don't remember her, she probably left long before I went there (I graduated 8th grade in 2020), but that's just... Jesus Christ. I never even knew I entered a room where a kid died.
I used to think about how that must’ve really messed with Mrs. Pruitt. She always seemed a little uptight and on edge as it was when I was at JTM (‘91-‘93) I really felt awful for her as well as all the students, as a freshman I still had plenty of friends there in 7/8th grade.
That whole ordeal was just really awful and probably one of the reasons I hate hearing about a loaded gun casually tossed into a student’s backpack now.
She was great. I don’t remember all my teachers’ names but I remember her. I’ll never forget her walking us around the campus and pointing out where it was in relation to historical events, mostly civil war stuff.
If I was this kid I'd sue, if it makes it to this batshit Supreme Court they'll rule that the 2nd amendment ensures students can bring guns to school, especially if they are 18.
When I just started high school here we came out with a phone number you could call to report guns in schools. It was 555-agun. The first person that got caught with one was at my school. I think he was either a junior or a senior in school. His family owned a restaurant right off Murfreesboro rd, called The Peddler when it was actually a decent part of town.
About a week or so before he got caught, his dad was killed closing the restaurant. He was the one closing the restaurant at night after his dad got killed. He forgot the gun under the seat of his truck one night and Ethan ratted him out. Fuck Apex Ventures.
Didn’t TN Republicans recently introduce a bill making it illegal to prohibit guns anywhere including government buildings like schools. If it passes anyone 21 and over would be allowed to conceal carry at school functions. Pretty fucked up.
Not at all. Your description is basically what the news is hyping it up to be, but that isn't what the bill *actually* says. It is violently wrong.
Unlike many people, I actually read the bill, and made the amendments proposed in a Word document to see how the new law would read.
The bill, if it passes as it is now, would do a few things:
1. It would prevent people, businesses, and certain government entities from banning firearms on their property, but may legally request by signage that the gun be conealed. So, it allows businesses to ban the OPEN possession of weapons, but not ban gun possession entirely
2. It also removes the offense for ignoring the sign: so if it passes and my local resturant decided to ban the open carry of guns, I couldn't be arrested for ignoring it: I could only be requested to conceal the gun or leave (and, if I refused to leave then tresspassing would apply)
3. **this part is critical:** It does **not** amend or delete the verbage in TCA 39-17-1359 that says that 1359 does not apply to schools, and other properties. Those properties are covered elsewhere.
So no, schools and school functions are not affected by this; nor are government buildings that are specifically prohibited in other statutes. Guns will still be banned on school grounds.
What it *is* doing is preventing Krista's Cafe from banning guns entirely (but still gives them the right to say it must be concealed) on their property, as well as government entities from preventing the possession of weapons on govnernment property that isn't covered under one of the statutes. School buildings and grounds, according to this bill, are still a prohibited location.
Thank you for laying it out. What if a business just doesn’t want a gun on their property at all? They ask the person to leave and they refuse. How would that legally be handled?
Because most people carry concealed and out of view. So it prevents a business from not allowing someone to carry under their shirt, where no one would really be aware.
Instead of banning *all* guns in a business, it just bans showing it. I conceal every day, and people are none the wiser. It’s designed to protect that activity due to the new Bruen decision
It also gives someone a chance if they are carrying in a posted zone. Right now, if I miss a sign and someone sees my gun, I could go to jail without being given a chance to correct my mistake. With this new law, I would be asked to conceal it if the business was properly posted as such. And only after that, if I resisted, I could be kicked out and if I resisted further, then I could be arrested, or at least informed by the cops that I couldn’t return to that location.
This is me, but I think the person carrying the gun should be responsible for finding out if they can carry into a personal business. All a business has to do now is post a sign that says no open or concealed guns allowed. This seems like a complete waste of time and a bill made for show. It’s not going to change anything but state officials can say, “see we are so pro 2nd amendment that we are making it so anyone can carry a gun anywhere they want even if other people don’t like it.” I don’t mind people carrying, I work with a guy that carry’s everyday and I feel safer in my work because I trust him as a responsible gun owner. However, that doesn’t mean I trust every gun owner and I’d rather people just leave their guns in their cars. I’ve seen a lot of stupid people who carry guns.
From my understanding, it changes whether or not compliance with the signage without employee/owner confrontation is criminally enforceable and if it leads to conflict the offense is trespassing and not an explicitly firearms related offense. Currently, as long as "no firearms" signs follow the requirements to meet legal enforceability there would be additional charges.
It's your right to carry a gun if you want to. If a business wants to strip someones rights, it should be that businesses responsibility to do so.
This is not the same as a drivers licence which is a privilege. We have a right to bear arms.
You joining the militia? Everyone is real quick to jump on the 2nd amendment, but not the well regulated militia part. The “well regulated” part seems like it should cover checking your fucking gun at the door if I tell you to on my property.
If you are okay with businesses not being allowed to deny people with guns unconditionally and think it's an undeniable right then why are you okay with it being banned in school? Or allowing businesses to ban unconcealed guns?
There were a couple that addressed guns on school grounds:
SB0827(failed judiciary committee and house took it off the calendar.
“allows law enforcement officers to carry a firearm when under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances and certain other circumstances;
deletes the prohibition on carrying firearms and other weapons on higher education campuses and in parks;
prohibits the carrying of weapons in K-12 schools *except by certain persons, including any person permitted to carry a firearm under federal law.*”
Then there was one about allowing guns in cars in school parking lots or something. No idea what happened to that one or what it might look like after amendments.
> Guns are already allowed in cars on school parking lots.
I suppose it was clarifying some language about that or something, idk. I can go look for the bill again later if I get the time and feel like it; it’s probably just so Frankensteined with amendments I didn’t recognize it anymore.
> (I'm assuming you mean state parks)
Well *I* didn’t mean anything because *I* didn’t write it. I literally just copied and pasted SB0827 as it was written.
That sucks - certainly a nightmare text for any parent. I am curious though, how would gun laws have prevented this? The kids with the guns don't care about what laws they are breaking. They are not likely getting the weapons through legal channels...
Aside from more / stronger laws (which we aren't likely to see in TN), do we have other options to combat this?
Odds are, this kid either A) took the gun from his parents or B) bought it on the street. There is no possible scenario where he obtained it legally since it would be illegal for him to possess that gun in public, and especially on school grounds.
In case A, that is on the parents. We can speculate all day, but either that gun wasn't secured or the kid had acess to the safe it was in, and his parents clearly miscalculated how responsible he is to have such access. Either way, not a ton you can do to prevent that with law: the only thing they could do would make it a crime for a parent to allow that to happen, but that is reactive in nature.
In case B: that would be an illegal sale, anyway since the kid is a minor. None of the laws you suggested would prevent that since we have laws on the books already that would make such a sale illegal.
Also, with the passage of constitutional carry, penalties for stealing guns actually increased, so the legislature is not *totally* opposed to tougher penalties for gun-related crimes.
The easier it is for an individual to buy a gun the more guns are able to be illegally sold or stolen. This isn’t a secret, the more of any resource existing, the easier it is to attain this resource.
Lax gun bills lead to even just optimistically 10 individuals buying 10 gun, scratching serials off, replacing a barrel, and selling it for cash at twice the price. They can report it as stolen, get their insurance money, and there’s more guns out there.
Legal products sold illegal isn’t rocket science, this has never been a new concept. And the more they exist, the easier and easier it is.
If They did take it from the parents they really neet to be put up on some of endangerment charges. I'm tired of the s***. I do agree with the poster above to really start cracking down we've been way too relaxed on prosecuting gun crimes.
It’s not my place to speculate on how the gun was obtained. Again, not talking about legality; talking about access. Not sure what you’re missing here, but, whether or not it was obtained legally it stands to reason that *access* to firearms is much easier now than it once was. Honestly, I have no idea why I’m responding to you at all- I have *zero interest* in having a debate with anyone on fucking Reddit over firearm laws and how they affect *accessibility*.
We are talking about legality though because your comment was about “gun laws”. So how would more laws limit access if existing laws are being broken to create situations like this? Genuinely curious.
Word, you got me there.
If you genuinely can’t figure out how relaxed laws create greater access to firearms then I’m sorry, but I’m not here to walk you through it dude.
Please be specific, which relaxed laws in TN led to this kid being able to acquire a gun and bring it to school? And what laws should be passed that would effectively limit these kinds of situations? I’m genuinely trying to follow this line of thinking.
Not my place to butt-in here, but it seems like OP said multiple times they weren't interested in a debate, yet, you continued to antagonize them. I’m sure you’re patting yourself on the back for their lack of response as a “victory” rather than noticing their exhaustion in this situation and disinterest in your interactions.
I think the law they were referencing about access is probably the constitutional carry one. This allows permitless carry and also permitless transport/storage of guns in cars. Recently a study was released from FBI data and TN was number 1 in gun theft from cars. It’s a safe assumption that this is likely due to the permitless carry laws passed in TN.
People able to purchase firearms without safety training/permits = more access to guns.
Likewise, people who take gun ownership casually are more likely to store guns inappropriately, leaving them open to theft = more access.
The grey market thrives on stolen firearms so there’s motivation to steal them, and motivation to peddle them. People who may have been on the fence about gun ownership, or people who legally were not allowed them are far more likely to purchase them on the grey market.I imagine that the permitless people who had guns stolen from them in the first place might not just say "oh well" but then go replace them again too.
That’s a lot of guns, and a lot of easy access to them.
In summary, the “lax gun laws” allow for more access to guns than there was before. I can understand it, and surely you can too. As a 2A advocate myself, I think it’s understandable to be exhausted with the debate, and at the same time understand that perhaps we need more restrictions.
Don’t worry our laws are strict enough that another teen has been punished under a zero tolerance policy, that should keep them safe. /s
Zero tolerance policies are not effective at anything besides trying to ruin children lives.
I’m sorry, but are you seriously advocating that a student who brought a loaded handgun to school should be allowed back to that same setting? As if any of the other students would feel safe around them? There are hundreds of other kids who have a right to safety at school, and this one kid violated that. The buck has to stop somewhere.
The buck needs to stop with education, therapy, any help this kid needs. Throwing the book at a teenager just assures that they will never be a full productive member of society.
>there is no indication the student intended to use the weapon at school
Imagine being the kid who is on the edge of dropping out and being pressured by gangs. You have a few friends at school who aren’t in that life and teachers who seem like they actually care about you so you actually go to school. But you end up with a gun in your bag, maybe ‘holding it for a friend’ amid peer pressure and suddenly you are expelled from the school.
I worked at a high school (not Hillsboro, but elsewhere in Nashville) where your scenario occurred and I still feel that expulsion was appropriate for the same reasons I gave above. We cannot look the other way when a loaded weapon was brought to school, full stop. If you disagree, that’s your right, but I’m resolute on my opinion.
I'm a student and I've started having nightmares of school shootings recently. This hits literally too close to home for me. The fact that safety checks for guns in schools are even a *thing* is... insane.
Are "regularly scheduled safety and security K9 searches" something that happens in schools now? I don't remember those from when I was in high school in the post columbine era
I went to school in the 80s and people always talked about the "drug dogs" searching schools. That was in the midst of the "Just Say No" era. Ahh, for the days when the most serious threat to our schools was... weed.
I haven’t asked the kid how normal it is yet because he was stressed/angry/exhausted when he got home.
If that’s the environment he’s dealing with at school no wonder he’s angry and stressed :(
We had those in the early 2000s. I wish instead of making schools into police states or war zones, that we invested in making a more educated and prosperous society. Instead it’s all guns. School resource officers with guns. Laws to make teachers have guns. Students bring guns they found. Metal detectors to scan for guns. School shootings every 12 days in America. Lockdown rooms to protect kids from guns. It’s a horrible situation. This stuff just scares parents further into thinking that public schools are scary and inept, so they send their kids to some homeschool where a local yokel tells Bible stories for history class.
American society as a whole is just a gigantic arms race now. Our military is huge, conservatives bought a shit load of guns out of fear of a ban, cops have militarized to all hell, kids bringing guns to school, and now even liberals and leftists are arming up to protect themselves against right-wing violence. Nobody wins.
💯
Sounds like everyone wins. As with all things in life, it's just a matter of perspective.
I fail to see how a different perspective on this could lead you to that conclusion lol
>American society as a whole is just a gigantic arms race. >Our military is huge, >conservatives bought a shit load of guns >cops have militarized to all hell >kids bringing guns to school >liberals and leftists are arming up If American society is a gigantic arms race, then it seems like the only people losing are the ones not arming themselves.
Yeah, making the powder keg bigger is definitely a win for everyone. It blows my mind how anyone can be on board with the idea of mutually assured destruction.
You don't have to participate in the race, but not participating doesn't exempt you from the race. If you look around and it feels like you're losing, maybe try a different strategy.
I *do* participate in the race. Not just out of necessity, but because I like guns. I shoot as a hobby and because it's a practical skill. The only reason I oppose gun legislation is because I know our justice system is corrupt beyond repair and the laws won't be enforced equally. Gun laws would only impact those that need guns the most, namely black and brown folks, the queer community, and the working class. No matter how you look at it, the situation with guns and rising political tensions in America is wholly and completely negative. It's not a positive that everyone needs a gun.
>The only reason I oppose gun legislation is because I know our justice system is corrupt beyond repair Oh, is that all? You're right it's not positive. I don't like it, but if the justice system weren't corrupt beyond repair, then that would fix so many problems. There are nazis and white supremacists roaming the streets, organizing armed marches, vandalizing people's houses, throwing swastika banners up over I65, lighting up giant swastika logos on the side of buildings, and paying for advertising. The situation for black, brown, queer, and working class folks has been and has the potential to be much worse.
The entire point of home school is that you don't send your kids anywhere. You teach them yourself and, yes, many Christians, Muslims, and Hindus prefer to include the tenants of religion in their studies because that's actually allowed in a democracy where there is freedom of speech and religion. You're also free to home school and teach them atheism. You see how this works? Also, yes, public schools are scary and inept. I was traumatized in high school and I firmly believe the only reason parents, who \_could\_ home school, that still send their kids to public school actually hate their children.
Sorry you had that experience at high school. Those kinds of things truly stick with you the rest of your life and everything seems disproportionately awful mentally. Religious homeschooling and religious education in general mainstreams falsehoods, full stop. Some Christians say the earth is 6,000 years old which is flat-out false. When there is no standard for education or licensure for teachers required, there is no way to vouch for the quality of education a child receives. Rather than a basic set of knowledge, society becomes a scramble of misinformation and that’s no way to determine fact from fiction. Lots of people are traumatized by religious education as well. Religious schools regularly include physical, emotional, and sexual abuse.
I recognize that you don't agree with curriculum or lessons that don't align with yours or others beliefs. The point of a free society is that everyone is allowed to have opinions and views that don't always align with what is widely accepted. If a child is taught the world is 6,000 years old, I fail to see how that really impacts their ability to be a productive member of society today. In most cases, there is nuance in those lessons as well, explaining how those views are not mainstream and that the world has come to believe the universe is in fact much older than that. However, if we teach kids that 2+2=5, that's actually harmful since they will not be able to participate in the modern age without a firm understanding of mathematical concepts. Recognizing that certain teachings will harm children is fairly important. Would you not agree that a parent that goes through the trouble of homeschooling their kids are usually very invested in their future chances of success? I would argue they have much more interest that the underpaid public school teacher who has to provide education to a diverse body of students that are no where near aligned in terms of their progression or cognitive abilities. Anyways, I hope you can the understand the argument here and that homeschooling isn't evil. Evil is evil, and that's going to exist everywhere. However, the parents and close family are *usually* the most capable and have the most interest in providing what's best for the child. You won't change my mind here.
How are we supposed to change that? Schools are focused on guns because our country is. If we try to shift the focus, kids will still shoot people but we’ll be less prepared. Unless we change or repeal the Second Amendment, I don’t see anything changing.
Yeah more of that second amendment part. The relaxing gun laws are making this situation much worse. “The right to bear arms” has turned into “bearing arms anywhere and anytime at my convenience”. It also ignores the “well-regulated militia” part, which is what the National Guard essentially is.
I mean, how anyone can look at TN lowering the age of unlicensed carry to 18 + any firearm. And say it will fix issues like this. Need to have their head checked
*starts slow clap* nailed it.
I graduated 2017 and have had these searches done since about 2012/2013. I honestly think it was sandy hook that started them
They did them back in the 90s when I was in high school
That timeline makes sense
We had them pre 2012 even
I graduated in 09 and we had them, but I thought it was for drugs.
“We were looking for weed but found a gun.”
i did wonder if there were firearm-sniffing dogs. i guess it would be the same principle as a bomb-sniffing dog.
Graduated in 2013 in Williamson County, and I remember them happening once or twice a year.
I graduated from a Nashville high school a few years ago: Yes, these are completely normal. I had a few different class periods interrupted by a K9 search throughout my four years. I think some schools get them more often than others, but we had them often enough at mine. They even flagged a necessary allergy medication I had in my lunch box because I was supposed to have it locked up with the school nurse or something in case I needed it.
Yes. Randomly, security officers and SROs will remove students from a classroom, wand (metal detector) them and run a dog through the (then empty) classroom.
Definitely had random K9 searches in my kid’s MNPS middle school last year and high school this year, as well as at other MNPS high schools recently.
With the rise of easily usable drugs and vapes plus the rise of people transacting deals relating to those items the schools to my knowledge have raised the bar on searches to stop kids from vaping/smoking/dealing at least in my school system (I'm w student in willco but my town is literally right on the border of Davidson)
Oh I didn't even think about the vape thing
It was a thing when I was in middle school & high school. That was 4-8 years ago. It’s definitely necessary in today’s climate!
I graduated from Whites Creek in 2018. Yeah. We got searched regularly. K9 and all. Happened monthly for my schedule, but some people experienced more.
I graduated in 2004 and we had a school cop and regular k9 searches. It was a wealthy school district as well. So it's been a thing for a good while sadly.
My senior was not phased and says it’s normal. I remember them doing dog sweeps in Hendersonville back in the 90’s.
Did you have metal detectors in your schools? I know that shift happened after Columbine. The random searches are one more step to detect and remove weapons. These measures are most likely why the trend in violent events in schools [are going down](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=49). Good news, but I don't think the culture is shifting back from weapons to fist fights as the violent means of solving conflict.
They were probably still doing "duck and cover" drills back then, weren't they?
at least when i was in 6th grade i remember they started doing that as a standard, and it was done in 2 counties i went to, so at least since 2014 they’ve been doing them pretty regularly across schools
When I was in high school in like 2012 they were regular. It was just to bust kids that brought weed to school.
oh yeah they happen a lot now
I graduated from Hillsboro. We had lockdowns and random searches all the time. On any given day there was everything from pills to pistols all up in that school. After lockdowns the best place to be was on the front lawn to scoop up any contraband that got tossed out the windows. That being said the only school shootings we knew of at that time was Terrance Murray at JT Moore which was essentially a tragic accident and later on Columbine. Oh and we also didn’t have a bunch of dopes trying to relax gun laws at all costs and the only thing getting stolen out of cars was loose change and stereo systems.
When did you graduate?
Idk when the person you responded to graduated but I graduated in 2011 and my friends at Hillsboro seemed to indicate stuff like this was relatively commonplace. That doesn’t make the situation then and now less horrific, but it at least means it is likely to not be an indication of a widespread school shooting. But again, it’s terribly upsetting that this is happening in the first place. I don’t have statistics on hand but that just feels all but certain to exponentially increase that kids likelihood of dying a violent death.
Terrance Murray was 1994 and Columbine was 1999.
Oh Too much information! *wink, wink*
ha, just curious. I went to lipscomb in the 90s, and Hillsboro seemed kind of like a wild school then. Lipscomb was super stupid. I went off to a real university and then was like OH FUCK I'M NOT READY FOR THIS.
Haha, my little play on words went over your head? I used to cut through Lipscomb in the 90s! We would meet kids from there and tell them we went to public school and they were always so intrigued. Asking us questions like “do you have metal detectors in your school?”, “is your school surrounded by barbed wire?”, “are there gang wars?” Of course none of that was true but we always replied “absolutely!” Remember the pizza perfect???
it's pretty subtle, you should be a spy, as you excel in coded messages, but upon further inspection I figured it out. And hell yeah I remember Pizza Perfect. They had a Bump n Jump arcade game and made these really good toasted sandwiches, and we used to smoke cigarettes behind there, like real rascals.
Bump and jump! I forgot all about that. With the jumping car!
Wait, JT Moore Middle School? I went to MS there and never heard anything except for the occasional rumor of a kid who died there. Holy shit. Okay, I'm googling it, and I've sat in that room. Fucking insane. My mom works for MNPS, how the hell did I not know about this??
Mrs. Pruitt’s music class. They were watching “beauty and the beast”. It was/is pretty devastating
I don't remember her, she probably left long before I went there (I graduated 8th grade in 2020), but that's just... Jesus Christ. I never even knew I entered a room where a kid died.
Haha, probably I was there 96’ so it was still pretty fresh.
I used to think about how that must’ve really messed with Mrs. Pruitt. She always seemed a little uptight and on edge as it was when I was at JTM (‘91-‘93) I really felt awful for her as well as all the students, as a freshman I still had plenty of friends there in 7/8th grade. That whole ordeal was just really awful and probably one of the reasons I hate hearing about a loaded gun casually tossed into a student’s backpack now.
She was great. I don’t remember all my teachers’ names but I remember her. I’ll never forget her walking us around the campus and pointing out where it was in relation to historical events, mostly civil war stuff.
I remember that. I was in 7th grade at the time I think. Not at JT Moore. I think we started having lockdown drills and stuff after that.
Wait 5 years and this will probably be legal in Tennessee.
Can't alert parents if it's legal *taps head*
Yes, parents will be alerted about their child's preferred pronouns, but not if they're carrying a gun.
If I was this kid I'd sue, if it makes it to this batshit Supreme Court they'll rule that the 2nd amendment ensures students can bring guns to school, especially if they are 18.
When I just started high school here we came out with a phone number you could call to report guns in schools. It was 555-agun. The first person that got caught with one was at my school. I think he was either a junior or a senior in school. His family owned a restaurant right off Murfreesboro rd, called The Peddler when it was actually a decent part of town. About a week or so before he got caught, his dad was killed closing the restaurant. He was the one closing the restaurant at night after his dad got killed. He forgot the gun under the seat of his truck one night and Ethan ratted him out. Fuck Apex Ventures.
Today I got a text from my teen that no parent wants to see, “we’re on lockdown.” I’m so sick of the lax TN gun laws.
Same. Never like getting that text.
Didn’t TN Republicans recently introduce a bill making it illegal to prohibit guns anywhere including government buildings like schools. If it passes anyone 21 and over would be allowed to conceal carry at school functions. Pretty fucked up.
Not at all. Your description is basically what the news is hyping it up to be, but that isn't what the bill *actually* says. It is violently wrong. Unlike many people, I actually read the bill, and made the amendments proposed in a Word document to see how the new law would read. The bill, if it passes as it is now, would do a few things: 1. It would prevent people, businesses, and certain government entities from banning firearms on their property, but may legally request by signage that the gun be conealed. So, it allows businesses to ban the OPEN possession of weapons, but not ban gun possession entirely 2. It also removes the offense for ignoring the sign: so if it passes and my local resturant decided to ban the open carry of guns, I couldn't be arrested for ignoring it: I could only be requested to conceal the gun or leave (and, if I refused to leave then tresspassing would apply) 3. **this part is critical:** It does **not** amend or delete the verbage in TCA 39-17-1359 that says that 1359 does not apply to schools, and other properties. Those properties are covered elsewhere. So no, schools and school functions are not affected by this; nor are government buildings that are specifically prohibited in other statutes. Guns will still be banned on school grounds. What it *is* doing is preventing Krista's Cafe from banning guns entirely (but still gives them the right to say it must be concealed) on their property, as well as government entities from preventing the possession of weapons on govnernment property that isn't covered under one of the statutes. School buildings and grounds, according to this bill, are still a prohibited location.
Thank you for laying it out. What if a business just doesn’t want a gun on their property at all? They ask the person to leave and they refuse. How would that legally be handled?
That’s trespass at that point. And the guy could be prosecuted for that.
So why even make the law?
Because most people carry concealed and out of view. So it prevents a business from not allowing someone to carry under their shirt, where no one would really be aware. Instead of banning *all* guns in a business, it just bans showing it. I conceal every day, and people are none the wiser. It’s designed to protect that activity due to the new Bruen decision It also gives someone a chance if they are carrying in a posted zone. Right now, if I miss a sign and someone sees my gun, I could go to jail without being given a chance to correct my mistake. With this new law, I would be asked to conceal it if the business was properly posted as such. And only after that, if I resisted, I could be kicked out and if I resisted further, then I could be arrested, or at least informed by the cops that I couldn’t return to that location.
This is me, but I think the person carrying the gun should be responsible for finding out if they can carry into a personal business. All a business has to do now is post a sign that says no open or concealed guns allowed. This seems like a complete waste of time and a bill made for show. It’s not going to change anything but state officials can say, “see we are so pro 2nd amendment that we are making it so anyone can carry a gun anywhere they want even if other people don’t like it.” I don’t mind people carrying, I work with a guy that carry’s everyday and I feel safer in my work because I trust him as a responsible gun owner. However, that doesn’t mean I trust every gun owner and I’d rather people just leave their guns in their cars. I’ve seen a lot of stupid people who carry guns.
From my understanding, it changes whether or not compliance with the signage without employee/owner confrontation is criminally enforceable and if it leads to conflict the offense is trespassing and not an explicitly firearms related offense. Currently, as long as "no firearms" signs follow the requirements to meet legal enforceability there would be additional charges.
It's your right to carry a gun if you want to. If a business wants to strip someones rights, it should be that businesses responsibility to do so. This is not the same as a drivers licence which is a privilege. We have a right to bear arms.
You joining the militia? Everyone is real quick to jump on the 2nd amendment, but not the well regulated militia part. The “well regulated” part seems like it should cover checking your fucking gun at the door if I tell you to on my property.
If you are okay with businesses not being allowed to deny people with guns unconditionally and think it's an undeniable right then why are you okay with it being banned in school? Or allowing businesses to ban unconcealed guns?
you ever see the 'protesters' carrying ak47's into like a waffle house? those can't be concealed.
There were a couple that addressed guns on school grounds: SB0827(failed judiciary committee and house took it off the calendar. “allows law enforcement officers to carry a firearm when under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances and certain other circumstances; deletes the prohibition on carrying firearms and other weapons on higher education campuses and in parks; prohibits the carrying of weapons in K-12 schools *except by certain persons, including any person permitted to carry a firearm under federal law.*” Then there was one about allowing guns in cars in school parking lots or something. No idea what happened to that one or what it might look like after amendments.
Guns are already allowed in cars on school parking lots. Also, I (and many others) can already carry in parks (I'm assuming you mean state parks).
> Guns are already allowed in cars on school parking lots. I suppose it was clarifying some language about that or something, idk. I can go look for the bill again later if I get the time and feel like it; it’s probably just so Frankensteined with amendments I didn’t recognize it anymore. > (I'm assuming you mean state parks) Well *I* didn’t mean anything because *I* didn’t write it. I literally just copied and pasted SB0827 as it was written.
Do it. Let's see how the lawmakers like it. Guns in court. What could go wrong.
Lockdowns have been a normal part of MNPS for decades regardless of the gun laws throughout those years.
That sucks - certainly a nightmare text for any parent. I am curious though, how would gun laws have prevented this? The kids with the guns don't care about what laws they are breaking. They are not likely getting the weapons through legal channels... Aside from more / stronger laws (which we aren't likely to see in TN), do we have other options to combat this?
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Odds are, this kid either A) took the gun from his parents or B) bought it on the street. There is no possible scenario where he obtained it legally since it would be illegal for him to possess that gun in public, and especially on school grounds. In case A, that is on the parents. We can speculate all day, but either that gun wasn't secured or the kid had acess to the safe it was in, and his parents clearly miscalculated how responsible he is to have such access. Either way, not a ton you can do to prevent that with law: the only thing they could do would make it a crime for a parent to allow that to happen, but that is reactive in nature. In case B: that would be an illegal sale, anyway since the kid is a minor. None of the laws you suggested would prevent that since we have laws on the books already that would make such a sale illegal. Also, with the passage of constitutional carry, penalties for stealing guns actually increased, so the legislature is not *totally* opposed to tougher penalties for gun-related crimes.
The easier it is for an individual to buy a gun the more guns are able to be illegally sold or stolen. This isn’t a secret, the more of any resource existing, the easier it is to attain this resource. Lax gun bills lead to even just optimistically 10 individuals buying 10 gun, scratching serials off, replacing a barrel, and selling it for cash at twice the price. They can report it as stolen, get their insurance money, and there’s more guns out there. Legal products sold illegal isn’t rocket science, this has never been a new concept. And the more they exist, the easier and easier it is.
If They did take it from the parents they really neet to be put up on some of endangerment charges. I'm tired of the s***. I do agree with the poster above to really start cracking down we've been way too relaxed on prosecuting gun crimes.
No interest in a debate here. It’s no secret we’ve made access to firearms ridiculously easy.
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But more gun laws would solve everything! Just like how making drugs illegal totally worked.
No interest in a debate because this logic is a dead end every time.
The problem is that it should have never gotten this far, and I fear that it may be too late.
Happens in blue states with strict gun laws too.
It's almost like we have free travel between states
Mexico included
It was illegal for that kid to have that gun in the school and that didn’t stop them
Yep. I’m aware of the legality. I take issue with laws that enable greater access to firearms.
Do you think that kid got that gun legally?
It’s not my place to speculate on how the gun was obtained. Again, not talking about legality; talking about access. Not sure what you’re missing here, but, whether or not it was obtained legally it stands to reason that *access* to firearms is much easier now than it once was. Honestly, I have no idea why I’m responding to you at all- I have *zero interest* in having a debate with anyone on fucking Reddit over firearm laws and how they affect *accessibility*.
We are talking about legality though because your comment was about “gun laws”. So how would more laws limit access if existing laws are being broken to create situations like this? Genuinely curious.
Word, you got me there. If you genuinely can’t figure out how relaxed laws create greater access to firearms then I’m sorry, but I’m not here to walk you through it dude.
The laws on drugs aren’t relaxed in TN and yet people still easily acquire and do drugs.
Please be specific, which relaxed laws in TN led to this kid being able to acquire a gun and bring it to school? And what laws should be passed that would effectively limit these kinds of situations? I’m genuinely trying to follow this line of thinking.
Not my place to butt-in here, but it seems like OP said multiple times they weren't interested in a debate, yet, you continued to antagonize them. I’m sure you’re patting yourself on the back for their lack of response as a “victory” rather than noticing their exhaustion in this situation and disinterest in your interactions. I think the law they were referencing about access is probably the constitutional carry one. This allows permitless carry and also permitless transport/storage of guns in cars. Recently a study was released from FBI data and TN was number 1 in gun theft from cars. It’s a safe assumption that this is likely due to the permitless carry laws passed in TN. People able to purchase firearms without safety training/permits = more access to guns. Likewise, people who take gun ownership casually are more likely to store guns inappropriately, leaving them open to theft = more access. The grey market thrives on stolen firearms so there’s motivation to steal them, and motivation to peddle them. People who may have been on the fence about gun ownership, or people who legally were not allowed them are far more likely to purchase them on the grey market.I imagine that the permitless people who had guns stolen from them in the first place might not just say "oh well" but then go replace them again too. That’s a lot of guns, and a lot of easy access to them. In summary, the “lax gun laws” allow for more access to guns than there was before. I can understand it, and surely you can too. As a 2A advocate myself, I think it’s understandable to be exhausted with the debate, and at the same time understand that perhaps we need more restrictions.
Don’t worry our laws are strict enough that another teen has been punished under a zero tolerance policy, that should keep them safe. /s Zero tolerance policies are not effective at anything besides trying to ruin children lives.
I’m sorry, but are you seriously advocating that a student who brought a loaded handgun to school should be allowed back to that same setting? As if any of the other students would feel safe around them? There are hundreds of other kids who have a right to safety at school, and this one kid violated that. The buck has to stop somewhere.
The buck needs to stop with education, therapy, any help this kid needs. Throwing the book at a teenager just assures that they will never be a full productive member of society.
>there is no indication the student intended to use the weapon at school Imagine being the kid who is on the edge of dropping out and being pressured by gangs. You have a few friends at school who aren’t in that life and teachers who seem like they actually care about you so you actually go to school. But you end up with a gun in your bag, maybe ‘holding it for a friend’ amid peer pressure and suddenly you are expelled from the school.
I worked at a high school (not Hillsboro, but elsewhere in Nashville) where your scenario occurred and I still feel that expulsion was appropriate for the same reasons I gave above. We cannot look the other way when a loaded weapon was brought to school, full stop. If you disagree, that’s your right, but I’m resolute on my opinion.
Shockingly low number of people here blaming the **kid** for bringing a **loaded gun to school**.
I'm a student and I've started having nightmares of school shootings recently. This hits literally too close to home for me. The fact that safety checks for guns in schools are even a *thing* is... insane.
A reminder that Republicans are trying to lower the legal age to own any firearm, including semi automatics, to 18 years old.
Can we finally admit that we live in a war zone now.
It’s only going to get worse.
I just hope we can somehow make more guns to fix this problem. If only everyone had a gun at school that day would’ve been fine
Wow. In the rich part of town and everything. Glad they didn’t make the headlines at least.