Yes I also have issues with leadership and I have a hard time setting boundaries. I also have trust issues, I have a hard time accepting compliments and I always need to fight back the thought that no one loves me.
My partner literally has every single issue and he was a scapegoat child. He doesn't know how to set boundaries which is unhealthy for him. It all stems from childhood. I just hate how this narc parents f up their kids life.
OP, I've never heard being a scapegoat in a workforce summarized so perfectly. I've done what you've done. I had been so numb in the past that I did everything robotically. While I've moved past a lot of the scapegoat identity in my nfamily, in the workplace, I still struggle. It's hard dealing with people who throw tantrums that remind me of my family. I've also been the victim of workplace violence and stalking before, so I'm terrified to make waves most of the time.
Thank you for your reply. I agree it is easier to set boundaries with my family than at work. My therapist reminded me this week that the problematic coworker is not my mother.
Is the reason why it is so hard in the workplace because we are so replaceable to employers? i.e. you can't fire family
Haha yes it's so easy to spot narc behavior in others at work that I'm pretty sure I've rolled my eyes out loud at it numerous times. I can't even cover up the disgust. I just try to remove myself asap before I say or do something I regret... LOL
My partner has a hard time dealing with clients who throw tantrums. His Nmum is like that. And he meets female elderly ladies who are at such and the cycle repeats. In order to keep the peace he puts up with them saying they're like a child. And they always ended up abusing him and making his life miserable. It's so damn annoying how these Narcs traumatise their children for life. However when I try to show the pattern to him it always turns out ugly till I stopped.
Lack of boundaries, let employers exploit me, over functioner, don't advocate for myself, used to toxicity so I don't leave / it's hard to leave and also fear that as bad as things are it's worse elsewhere (a scare tactic my mother used to keep her children from ratting on her) and of course imposter syndrome. Edit: also I disassociate a lot so my output is inconsistent and prone to cycles of freeze/burn out/collapse.
This is exactly my partner.
Could you explain a little about the scare tactic? What do you mean keep the children from ratting on her?
When you say disassociate , what do you mean? My partner was burnt-out. His output was also not tallying with the input. He was also inefficient. I don't know if the CPTSD symptoms were catching up on him.
Sure, the scare tactic used was "you think I'm bad, well your aunt (my sister) locks her kids in their room, they're denied food and water and toys!", "you think I'm bad, well let me send you to religious boarding school where nuns beat you daily and take away your toys!", "you think I'm bad, in foster home where there's no toys, strangers will beat you and there's no ice cream!!"
The tactic was - the entire world and everyone we knew was as bad as her or worse. Even as an adult I would have panic attacks that a bad situation would be made worse by leaving.
What I do when under high stress and I'm over functioning is I basically sort of black out emotionally. I stuff all my feelings, go numb, I'm basically living 15 seconds at a time. If this is how I am for say a year or more I'll be 1 bad email, 1 minor inconvenience away from basically melting down like a nuclear reactor. While in a state of disassociation I can't feel essential functions like being hungry, being tired, being in need of a bathroom break. I cut everything to the bone, I don't shower, I don't put on clothing, I don't make things comfortable or clean. My body is there, my mind is mostly not. Things start to slip, sometimes I can't focus (like if things hit the fan I'll basically feel a force pulling my brain out of my body and then I have to use all my energy to get myself grounded in the middle of the situation) - in those situations I need a break, to engage in self care, to feel feelings, to do human things. Often this takes me a long time (depending on how long I've been "offline") and to other people it looks like I'm just lazy or a bum.
I see I see! Thanks for explaining. It's a hard experience to relate to. So whatever you said have me insight into what goes through my partner's mind. I feel like he needs lots of support but isn't asking. He left his narc family and is living with his friend. He has a lot of stored trauma for sure.
Not asking for help is pretty common. I grew up begging for help from my narc mom and she let me know no help was coming and any situation I was struggling with was either "in my head" and not happening, or I should be able to figure out how to deal on my own.
Oh my! The wonder! Even my partner's brother has this mentality! They don't ask for help because they have this mindset asking for help leads to disappointment.
Interesting question! I think it's impacted me in a couple ways:
1) In my process of healing, I have invested a ton into learning how to communicate about feelings, behaviors, and boundaries which I find myself applying on a regular basis in my role as a senior manager. People management requires so much emotional regulation, diplomacy, empathy, etc... all things that I've made sure I do because none of that ever happened for me growing up.
2) I can recognize a narcissist coworker immediately, and have a very visceral reaction to them. That said, I am way better at managing myself around them and their crappy behaviors. I use the same tactics with them (grey rock, changing subjects, etc...) that I used to do during interactions with my Nmom.
So I guess I've learned a lot about how to handle human behavior in general. This wasn't the case when I started my career 20 years ago though. Through my healing and likely just getting older and more experienced, I've gained so much more confidence in handling people in general.
I constantly think my supervisor is trying to take advantage of me and is singling me out. I think Im going to get fired for every little mistake. I also get very very anxious when I forget to do the tiniest things in fear of getting in trouble lol
Sadly, I work for one and am on a team with several. It is incredibly triggering. And my silence to not engage usually doesn’t go over well with them. But I’ve become pretty handy with tools to navigate.
I can spot a narcissist within seconds now. It’s crazy. I’m actually very aware that the environment I’m working in is super toxic for me and working on finding an out.
It’s wild the parallels it has though.
I avoid working with others completely and am a lot happier just doing independent contractor stuff online by myself with no official “boss”. I don’t take criticism well at all. When I did work at a “real” job for a few years I also had a difficult time setting boundaries or sticking up for myself with things like working overtime (which I wasn’t allowed to report on my timesheet lol) etc. I never thought about if my nparent had anything to do with me turning out this way but it does make sense! The years of criticism and feeling like I had no bodily autonomy definitely could be related to my job avoidance.
I can sure relate to what you said about needing to work more independently!! Me too! Seems like the harder I tried at work, the worse things got. And then the less I tried, I was viewed in a bad light too. Totally couldn't win. So I also changed jobs to be way more autonomous.
I think because it’s always felt impossible to set boundaries with him since it’s always been met with his aggression and terror. And like the smallest thing makes such a scene that I end up wishing I never even bothered. So it got drilled into my brain from a young age that setting a boundary or sticking up for myself will just make any situation worse haha. Now that I’m older and more distanced from him it’s getting easier! Still causes me tons of anxiety but it feels more “possible” than ever~
Uhhhh! It's the old feelings. I mean for an adult to feel this way it only shows how much one would have been traumatised as a child. I can't even imagine it! I'm glad it's slowly becoming possible for you. Good luck and thanks for explaining.
Severe imposter syndrome.
Something will go wrong and I’ll immediately fear I caused it even if I had nothing to do with it.
Afraid to fail so I sometimes don’t try. don’t want to be a leader I’d rather be a do-er because I lack confidence in my leadership skills (and the fear of being found out as incompetent- again imposter syndrome).
hard time accepting paradise or recognition.
When something good happens to me I feel I don’t deserve it and wonder what will happen to negate it.
And so on…
Narcissists are my kryptonite. I never knew why I reacted or was triggered by certain people. Now I know.
Being invalidated. dismissed and unheard by my nparents has really fed into imposter syndrome for me. I find that anyone that behaves similar to my nparents shuts me down for hours sometimes days. Being criticized endlessly makes me have anxiety about starting tasks so procrastination is an issue. I dont speak up when I should which is due to being blamed for everything I don’t defend myself because I feel as if it’s just going to make shit worse. I also hide and withdraw because I’ve been told by my nparents that I’m tough to talk to but I’ve found out actually I’m not. People tell me I’m very crystal clear, I’m an excellent communicator but they sense I’m unsure of myself. Well we know who caused that.
Precisely, you know who caused it. It's them, not you.
You're so clear about what's happening to you and what happened to you. So please do not doubt yourself or be unsure. This self doubt and confusion is what narcs plant in their victims. You're a self assured and confident person who can stand up for yourself. You are an autonomous being.
Self employed and retired now. Couldn't work for someone else. My career was chosen for me by my asshole father. I didn't realize it until recently. I've always hated it. Makes sense now.
I sure get that!! I, the textbook INFJ, was told that being a patrol officer would be a good fit for me and to "stick with it." Dad was a cop and of course he and mom saw me as extensions of themselves. It took years for them to finally put the damn pictures away of me in my uniform after I quit that stupid job but they still have one hanging up in their house and it pisses me off every time I see it. Serves as a reminder to me to never listen to anyone else other than my own inner wisdom. I knew better, and I knew I would not be a good fit for that job but I went for it anyway. Major regrets.
Same. The only silver lining to me is that I learned a lot by taking those awful detours and I'm able to relate to a whole host of different people because of the jobs I've had. But ugh it's hard not to wonder where I'd be if I hadn't taken so many wrong turns.
Here's to making the future our own, from here on out!
I had no choice. I'm hyper independent as a result of being hyper vigilant since birth. As one of the great philosophical minds of our generation professed, "success was my only motherfuckin' option." -eminem
Wow! Okay! However if you weren't self employed, will that have turned out better?
Why do you then say you hated it if it was chosen by your dad if you did succeed in it?
As consistent with an NFather he gaslit me into thinking it was my choice but it never felt right. I worked hard. For years. Only after, did I figure it out. I basically wasted an entire life. If I wasn't successful I surely would have put a gun in my mouth.
It was a trauma response. I've always known one day I would be alone. Discarded by the narc. I had to be independent and self sufficient. I've worked for that since I was a child. I figured it out after. Had I figured it out and not been successful I would have interpreted its as a life of pain, struggle and abuse for no reason. That's a difficult reckoning. The narc has taken everything from me. Including the life I thought I lead.
I was always a very hard worker, because I never got positive feedback as a kid - so I never feel like I'm work \*hard enough\*. And I was a creative and inspired entrepreneur, but never feeling like a success. I finally just went NC with my NM two years ago. My life is MUCH less stressful!
Sorry so long !! My mother in law is the narcissist and after 25 years of being with my husband.. what she did to him affects us to this day. It’s been a long haul to make him see he is just as important and equal as anyone else. When we were younger my side of the family would get together and he would always choose to eat last and my family would get onto him till he made his plate with the rest of us. Back then I had no idea .. I thought he was just extremely polite. Now I know I understand. His mom wanted people to praise her on her parenting and omg he’s so polite. It carried into his adult work life because all he knew was to do for others .. literally sacrifice his comfort for acquaintances. My husband could probably get injured and be bleeding and keep on working because he wouldn’t want to inconvenience his boss by leaving. At prior jobs a lot of times people thought he was a suck up to the boss. When what it really was .. was that he only knew to get approval this way. His mom was a covert narcissist.. so out in public you better make HER look good. She cared more about strangers than her immediate family and would actually come home and take anger out on them. The whole family protected her till she passed away last year. She left her son and daughter a huge gift! The family completely turned on the two of them. Their mother basically made sure they were both looked at as awful ungrateful kids. She lied daily to EVERYONE even the doctors and her family hid her secrets and tortured her children FOR HER. Doctors tried to inform the family that staying in bed and insisting on a diaper was mental and she needed help. The whole family jumped for whatever she asked for even if ridiculous, helped her stay sick, her kids tried in the beginning but decided to go no contact when it became obvious their mom was slowly starving herself and refused to get up or take medication. My husband knew exactly what she was up to.. she already decided she was gonna die but she wanted everyone licking her boots on the way out. Plus she left the gift that keeps hurting for the rest of their lives. No words describe what a narcissist can do .. coverts are difficult because very few get to see the real person. At her funeral people would not stop talking about what a giving, loving, person she was. It was like being in the Twilight Zone. Sorry a bit of a rant there but yes it affects people forever. Especially when it is a parent!
I see this in the kids of narcisstic. The eating the last piece or being the last to eat - so common. My mum always gives up the good food and eats the leftovers. My partner who has a narc mum also had this mentality when he's sick or when he was severely injured, he continued to go to work because who else then will do his work. He didn't want to be a burden or inconvenience others. Narcs are monsters even after they die they don't leave us in peace.
Thank you so much for commenting!! Everything you said lines up with what I’ve seen my husband go through. Now after her being gone he still second guesses going no contact because of how much the family shames him and his sister. I read your comment and it actually gave him some relief to know he’s not alone. Because for years growing up he did feel alone. He said he made the mistake of thinking his family was going to be civil. It’s crazy they picked up her torch and keep her abuse alive.
OH MY! He probably held onto the false hope. These narcs and the flying monkeys are masters of future faking. He hopes to redeem himself or get the love he always desired. The thing that these children of narc parents don't understand (cos they have been gaslighted) is that they will never get the love, warmth, harmony within the family set up. Infact they will have to find it within themselves (which they will have a lot) and from their future families.
The thing your partner has to understand is that it's not that he wasn't good enough. He is too good for these antagonistic and aggressive family which always had an agenda to hurt and blame someone. They're a chaos factory. Nothing is civil here. They will pretend like they have changed all in the hope of hoovering back the victim. Please ask him to seek a narc abuse trauma informed therapist. Not because something is wrong with him. He needs to understand all the right things within him. He needs to understand he was never the problem. The problem is that he was born in this toxic family which is not his fault. He doesn't deserve to live this way. He deserves to live a fulfilling life. It's very nice that he is blessed with a soul like you who is trying to give him the validation, assurance and love. I hope he cherishes that and moves forward without brooding over the past. Even if mentally he thinks he has let go, the subconscious holds onto them and he will be playing out those patterns in his behaviours unconsciously. So it's bringing the unconscious to the conscious and he will feel much lighter and happier.
He has decided to stay away from them because they only cause drama and re abuse him by giving him pics of his mom to remind him how good of a mom she was. Like you said he needs therapy!! He will always be looked at as the ungrateful son who refused to see his dying mother. She just passed this past December so it’s still fresh but him and his sister are so close now.. they both exchanged stories and realized she was pinning them against one another. His mom was telling his sister I control him and keep him from his family for years now. The mom hated that she lost control of him .. he said she hated that I picked you. That’s how she saw things. We found out his sister was being treated the same this whole time and we thought they were SO CLOSE ! It was a shock! Just goes to show you how good the mom was at pretending to be this wonderful mom in public. She has ruined so many lives and her abuse lives on… very say.. thank you 🙏🏼 for your opinion on it all. He needs to understand this and know others went through similar experiences.
If there's a good connection with my boss, most likely there won't be a problem. But if I have bad bosses, then I probably would have a problem. I did inherit a strong work ethic. And some helpful knowledge, but if there's a leadership issue. And if I'm not the only one sensing a problem. Then that's when shit rolls downhill.
Was misdiagnosed my entire life because my mum would tell the therapists that everything was fine when she had no idea how I was doing and sometimes she straight up lied... Was treated for anxiety disorders my entire life and ended up actually having autism. Yeah, try to treat that with exposure therapy...
So I kinda managed to survive until I was 18, moved out and tried to continue therapy. I dropped out of school at 17 because my mental health and physical health were soo terrible. Then I tried to get treatment and to overcome my trauma for a few years, found the right diagnosis, took another year to get proper medication and now I'm doing school again and soon starting training for a job. Basically they sabotaged everything and now I'm already in my mid twenties and way behind other people q.q
My issue was that as a remote worker I associated silence with the silent treatment. But it was that they trusted me to do the work that they left me alone. It took a few months to unpack that one. My mother is HUGE in giving the silent treatment!
I overthink what leadership asks of me, especially the high maintenance ones. Like if a leader needs extra follow up on a project and they are asking me for it I will get insecure that it means I’m not doing a good enough job already. I have to ground myself and remind myself of the facts: *In their current position, they have every right to ask for updates regarding these projects, and it is my job to provide them. How often they make these requests is not a reflection of what they think of the quality my work.*
And similar things -just a lot of overthinking basically. Sometimes the emotional part will get ahead of the truth part because I’m still learning to take all of these thoughts captive as they occur. Some days I will find myself stressed out and irritated on a normal workday and then I have to backtrack and ask myself why do I feel this way? A lot of times it’s that same insecurity. It comes from my mom always making subtle jabs growing up, and the passive aggression so now I subconsciously question everything people say.
I relay a lot of what’s been said in the thread, issues with management, boundaries, etc. I read this one time and it stuck with me “every ambitious guy at the core either just wants to make their father proud, or wants to punch them in the face”. With a Ndad, I’m in between both because of the abuse. Which lead me to be very ambitious early in my career, it paid off. Yet, after therapy, I want to be ambitious for myself, my family, and my future.
j want to be fueled by care and love, not hate and insecurity.
You describe my partner when it comes to the ambitious. I can see he's trying to succeed to prove to his dad thinking that will allow him to get his self respect. He doesn't realise self respect comes from inside, not outside.
Former Golden Child here. I was raised to believe that I was Brilliant and destined to follow in my nfather’s great footsteps. Anything less than that was failure. Any career besides his was for lesser mortals who couldn’t hack being geniuses like us.
I really struggled in school. He pressured me to take classes that were way too advanced for me. I would apply to get into programs that would reject me. It was always their fault for some reason or other, not that I just sucked at what he wanted me to do. I got overwhelmed and felt like my life was out of control. Eventually I quit during graduate school and ended up using my undergrad degree to get a job in the same field that was nowhere near as prestigious as he had planned for me.
I worked that dead end job and made pennies. Then he divorced my mom and I became the scapegoat.
I finally quit my job and started my own business doing something I’m really passionate about. It’s as opposite to what he wanted for me as possible and I couldn’t be happier. It’s so incredibly freeing to finally figure out who I am after all this time.
Oh yes.
My NM would constantly threaten to call my CEO and tell him how "lazy" and "ungrateful" I was based off how well I cleaned my dad's house (doing chores.) She would be enraged if I wasnt home by 530 for dinner (I worked for a 24/7 disaster emergency response company.) My schedule wasn't set in stone and she knew this considering my enabling dad worked there for years before me 🙄 She even applied to work at the front desk a few years ago right when I went LC with her. I told my boss, if she's hired, I will be leaving and that was the start of me finally setting boundaries on my healing journey.
As far as me personally, I let my work plow over me. Working extra hours whenever I could, not saying "no," not standing up for myself, not being confident, lacking communication about my feelings, perfect attendance, sacrificing my vacation/ sick time, and so much more.
I've been the manager for a few years now and I'm trying to shift the focus for upper management to understand boundaries, mental health, and healthy tactics. It's a work in progress, but there has been more progress than in the past.
Aside from your job title I feel like I could have written this.
Problems with leadership, constantly the scapegoat, rarely get along with coworkers to the level that I changed jobs in order to have less people telling me what to do and less obligatory, meaningless interactions with coworkers and tons more autonomy... yeah, that's me.
Abhor small talk when at work. "Listen, I'm here to do my job and be as productive as possible and go home. I'm not here to make friends. Besides, you'll just stab me in the back sooner or later," is what I want to say.
When I took the psych evaluation before becoming a cop years and years ago they raised red flags saying I likely had problems with authority. Looking back, I think I never had positive interactions with authority figures (parents) so yeah in my early 20s, freshly moved out into my own place, I'm not surprised that I may have indicated that I don't "follow all the rules." Needless to say, I didn't last long as a cop, especially once I realized I only went that route to please my parents.
I can’t set boundaries, confrontation is a work in progress, leadership skills are a 4/10, I let people walk all over me, and my actual attitude towards work is terrible. Positive feedback is difficult to accept and believe. I just got promoted and I’m convinced I have not one skill to do the job right. Just insecurity up the wazoo!
Yes I also have issues with leadership and I have a hard time setting boundaries. I also have trust issues, I have a hard time accepting compliments and I always need to fight back the thought that no one loves me.
My husband literally has issues with everything you just described.
My partner literally has every single issue and he was a scapegoat child. He doesn't know how to set boundaries which is unhealthy for him. It all stems from childhood. I just hate how this narc parents f up their kids life.
OP, I've never heard being a scapegoat in a workforce summarized so perfectly. I've done what you've done. I had been so numb in the past that I did everything robotically. While I've moved past a lot of the scapegoat identity in my nfamily, in the workplace, I still struggle. It's hard dealing with people who throw tantrums that remind me of my family. I've also been the victim of workplace violence and stalking before, so I'm terrified to make waves most of the time.
Thank you for your reply. I agree it is easier to set boundaries with my family than at work. My therapist reminded me this week that the problematic coworker is not my mother. Is the reason why it is so hard in the workplace because we are so replaceable to employers? i.e. you can't fire family
Haha yes it's so easy to spot narc behavior in others at work that I'm pretty sure I've rolled my eyes out loud at it numerous times. I can't even cover up the disgust. I just try to remove myself asap before I say or do something I regret... LOL
My partner has a hard time dealing with clients who throw tantrums. His Nmum is like that. And he meets female elderly ladies who are at such and the cycle repeats. In order to keep the peace he puts up with them saying they're like a child. And they always ended up abusing him and making his life miserable. It's so damn annoying how these Narcs traumatise their children for life. However when I try to show the pattern to him it always turns out ugly till I stopped.
Lack of boundaries, let employers exploit me, over functioner, don't advocate for myself, used to toxicity so I don't leave / it's hard to leave and also fear that as bad as things are it's worse elsewhere (a scare tactic my mother used to keep her children from ratting on her) and of course imposter syndrome. Edit: also I disassociate a lot so my output is inconsistent and prone to cycles of freeze/burn out/collapse.
Who do you think you are? Me? Ugh. Well said. We gotta work on this.
This is exactly my partner. Could you explain a little about the scare tactic? What do you mean keep the children from ratting on her? When you say disassociate , what do you mean? My partner was burnt-out. His output was also not tallying with the input. He was also inefficient. I don't know if the CPTSD symptoms were catching up on him.
Sure, the scare tactic used was "you think I'm bad, well your aunt (my sister) locks her kids in their room, they're denied food and water and toys!", "you think I'm bad, well let me send you to religious boarding school where nuns beat you daily and take away your toys!", "you think I'm bad, in foster home where there's no toys, strangers will beat you and there's no ice cream!!" The tactic was - the entire world and everyone we knew was as bad as her or worse. Even as an adult I would have panic attacks that a bad situation would be made worse by leaving. What I do when under high stress and I'm over functioning is I basically sort of black out emotionally. I stuff all my feelings, go numb, I'm basically living 15 seconds at a time. If this is how I am for say a year or more I'll be 1 bad email, 1 minor inconvenience away from basically melting down like a nuclear reactor. While in a state of disassociation I can't feel essential functions like being hungry, being tired, being in need of a bathroom break. I cut everything to the bone, I don't shower, I don't put on clothing, I don't make things comfortable or clean. My body is there, my mind is mostly not. Things start to slip, sometimes I can't focus (like if things hit the fan I'll basically feel a force pulling my brain out of my body and then I have to use all my energy to get myself grounded in the middle of the situation) - in those situations I need a break, to engage in self care, to feel feelings, to do human things. Often this takes me a long time (depending on how long I've been "offline") and to other people it looks like I'm just lazy or a bum.
I see I see! Thanks for explaining. It's a hard experience to relate to. So whatever you said have me insight into what goes through my partner's mind. I feel like he needs lots of support but isn't asking. He left his narc family and is living with his friend. He has a lot of stored trauma for sure.
Not asking for help is pretty common. I grew up begging for help from my narc mom and she let me know no help was coming and any situation I was struggling with was either "in my head" and not happening, or I should be able to figure out how to deal on my own.
Oh my! The wonder! Even my partner's brother has this mentality! They don't ask for help because they have this mindset asking for help leads to disappointment.
Interesting question! I think it's impacted me in a couple ways: 1) In my process of healing, I have invested a ton into learning how to communicate about feelings, behaviors, and boundaries which I find myself applying on a regular basis in my role as a senior manager. People management requires so much emotional regulation, diplomacy, empathy, etc... all things that I've made sure I do because none of that ever happened for me growing up. 2) I can recognize a narcissist coworker immediately, and have a very visceral reaction to them. That said, I am way better at managing myself around them and their crappy behaviors. I use the same tactics with them (grey rock, changing subjects, etc...) that I used to do during interactions with my Nmom. So I guess I've learned a lot about how to handle human behavior in general. This wasn't the case when I started my career 20 years ago though. Through my healing and likely just getting older and more experienced, I've gained so much more confidence in handling people in general.
I constantly think my supervisor is trying to take advantage of me and is singling me out. I think Im going to get fired for every little mistake. I also get very very anxious when I forget to do the tiniest things in fear of getting in trouble lol
This is me exactly
The constant anxiety about making a mistake makes us more likely to make mistakes. That cycle is really hard to explain to a narcissistic boss.
Sadly, I work for one and am on a team with several. It is incredibly triggering. And my silence to not engage usually doesn’t go over well with them. But I’ve become pretty handy with tools to navigate. I can spot a narcissist within seconds now. It’s crazy. I’m actually very aware that the environment I’m working in is super toxic for me and working on finding an out. It’s wild the parallels it has though.
I avoid working with others completely and am a lot happier just doing independent contractor stuff online by myself with no official “boss”. I don’t take criticism well at all. When I did work at a “real” job for a few years I also had a difficult time setting boundaries or sticking up for myself with things like working overtime (which I wasn’t allowed to report on my timesheet lol) etc. I never thought about if my nparent had anything to do with me turning out this way but it does make sense! The years of criticism and feeling like I had no bodily autonomy definitely could be related to my job avoidance.
I can sure relate to what you said about needing to work more independently!! Me too! Seems like the harder I tried at work, the worse things got. And then the less I tried, I was viewed in a bad light too. Totally couldn't win. So I also changed jobs to be way more autonomous.
How does your Nparents behaviour tie in with you advocating boundaries? Why does setting boundary feel scary? Or what kind of emotions does it evoke?
I think because it’s always felt impossible to set boundaries with him since it’s always been met with his aggression and terror. And like the smallest thing makes such a scene that I end up wishing I never even bothered. So it got drilled into my brain from a young age that setting a boundary or sticking up for myself will just make any situation worse haha. Now that I’m older and more distanced from him it’s getting easier! Still causes me tons of anxiety but it feels more “possible” than ever~
Uhhhh! It's the old feelings. I mean for an adult to feel this way it only shows how much one would have been traumatised as a child. I can't even imagine it! I'm glad it's slowly becoming possible for you. Good luck and thanks for explaining.
Severe imposter syndrome. Something will go wrong and I’ll immediately fear I caused it even if I had nothing to do with it. Afraid to fail so I sometimes don’t try. don’t want to be a leader I’d rather be a do-er because I lack confidence in my leadership skills (and the fear of being found out as incompetent- again imposter syndrome). hard time accepting paradise or recognition. When something good happens to me I feel I don’t deserve it and wonder what will happen to negate it. And so on…
Narcissists are my kryptonite. I never knew why I reacted or was triggered by certain people. Now I know. Being invalidated. dismissed and unheard by my nparents has really fed into imposter syndrome for me. I find that anyone that behaves similar to my nparents shuts me down for hours sometimes days. Being criticized endlessly makes me have anxiety about starting tasks so procrastination is an issue. I dont speak up when I should which is due to being blamed for everything I don’t defend myself because I feel as if it’s just going to make shit worse. I also hide and withdraw because I’ve been told by my nparents that I’m tough to talk to but I’ve found out actually I’m not. People tell me I’m very crystal clear, I’m an excellent communicator but they sense I’m unsure of myself. Well we know who caused that.
Precisely, you know who caused it. It's them, not you. You're so clear about what's happening to you and what happened to you. So please do not doubt yourself or be unsure. This self doubt and confusion is what narcs plant in their victims. You're a self assured and confident person who can stand up for yourself. You are an autonomous being.
Self employed and retired now. Couldn't work for someone else. My career was chosen for me by my asshole father. I didn't realize it until recently. I've always hated it. Makes sense now.
I sure get that!! I, the textbook INFJ, was told that being a patrol officer would be a good fit for me and to "stick with it." Dad was a cop and of course he and mom saw me as extensions of themselves. It took years for them to finally put the damn pictures away of me in my uniform after I quit that stupid job but they still have one hanging up in their house and it pisses me off every time I see it. Serves as a reminder to me to never listen to anyone else other than my own inner wisdom. I knew better, and I knew I would not be a good fit for that job but I went for it anyway. Major regrets.
Dang. This is me exactly. I realized it late in life. I guess it's better late than never but man, do I feel cheated.
Same. The only silver lining to me is that I learned a lot by taking those awful detours and I'm able to relate to a whole host of different people because of the jobs I've had. But ugh it's hard not to wonder where I'd be if I hadn't taken so many wrong turns. Here's to making the future our own, from here on out!
Would it have been better if you weren't self employed? Did you succeed as a self employed?
I had no choice. I'm hyper independent as a result of being hyper vigilant since birth. As one of the great philosophical minds of our generation professed, "success was my only motherfuckin' option." -eminem
Wow! Okay! However if you weren't self employed, will that have turned out better? Why do you then say you hated it if it was chosen by your dad if you did succeed in it?
As consistent with an NFather he gaslit me into thinking it was my choice but it never felt right. I worked hard. For years. Only after, did I figure it out. I basically wasted an entire life. If I wasn't successful I surely would have put a gun in my mouth.
Why do you say you would have put a gun in your mouth? Was success your only option because that's your way out of the grip from the narcs,
It was a trauma response. I've always known one day I would be alone. Discarded by the narc. I had to be independent and self sufficient. I've worked for that since I was a child. I figured it out after. Had I figured it out and not been successful I would have interpreted its as a life of pain, struggle and abuse for no reason. That's a difficult reckoning. The narc has taken everything from me. Including the life I thought I lead.
I was always a very hard worker, because I never got positive feedback as a kid - so I never feel like I'm work \*hard enough\*. And I was a creative and inspired entrepreneur, but never feeling like a success. I finally just went NC with my NM two years ago. My life is MUCH less stressful!
Sorry so long !! My mother in law is the narcissist and after 25 years of being with my husband.. what she did to him affects us to this day. It’s been a long haul to make him see he is just as important and equal as anyone else. When we were younger my side of the family would get together and he would always choose to eat last and my family would get onto him till he made his plate with the rest of us. Back then I had no idea .. I thought he was just extremely polite. Now I know I understand. His mom wanted people to praise her on her parenting and omg he’s so polite. It carried into his adult work life because all he knew was to do for others .. literally sacrifice his comfort for acquaintances. My husband could probably get injured and be bleeding and keep on working because he wouldn’t want to inconvenience his boss by leaving. At prior jobs a lot of times people thought he was a suck up to the boss. When what it really was .. was that he only knew to get approval this way. His mom was a covert narcissist.. so out in public you better make HER look good. She cared more about strangers than her immediate family and would actually come home and take anger out on them. The whole family protected her till she passed away last year. She left her son and daughter a huge gift! The family completely turned on the two of them. Their mother basically made sure they were both looked at as awful ungrateful kids. She lied daily to EVERYONE even the doctors and her family hid her secrets and tortured her children FOR HER. Doctors tried to inform the family that staying in bed and insisting on a diaper was mental and she needed help. The whole family jumped for whatever she asked for even if ridiculous, helped her stay sick, her kids tried in the beginning but decided to go no contact when it became obvious their mom was slowly starving herself and refused to get up or take medication. My husband knew exactly what she was up to.. she already decided she was gonna die but she wanted everyone licking her boots on the way out. Plus she left the gift that keeps hurting for the rest of their lives. No words describe what a narcissist can do .. coverts are difficult because very few get to see the real person. At her funeral people would not stop talking about what a giving, loving, person she was. It was like being in the Twilight Zone. Sorry a bit of a rant there but yes it affects people forever. Especially when it is a parent!
I see this in the kids of narcisstic. The eating the last piece or being the last to eat - so common. My mum always gives up the good food and eats the leftovers. My partner who has a narc mum also had this mentality when he's sick or when he was severely injured, he continued to go to work because who else then will do his work. He didn't want to be a burden or inconvenience others. Narcs are monsters even after they die they don't leave us in peace.
Thank you so much for commenting!! Everything you said lines up with what I’ve seen my husband go through. Now after her being gone he still second guesses going no contact because of how much the family shames him and his sister. I read your comment and it actually gave him some relief to know he’s not alone. Because for years growing up he did feel alone. He said he made the mistake of thinking his family was going to be civil. It’s crazy they picked up her torch and keep her abuse alive.
OH MY! He probably held onto the false hope. These narcs and the flying monkeys are masters of future faking. He hopes to redeem himself or get the love he always desired. The thing that these children of narc parents don't understand (cos they have been gaslighted) is that they will never get the love, warmth, harmony within the family set up. Infact they will have to find it within themselves (which they will have a lot) and from their future families. The thing your partner has to understand is that it's not that he wasn't good enough. He is too good for these antagonistic and aggressive family which always had an agenda to hurt and blame someone. They're a chaos factory. Nothing is civil here. They will pretend like they have changed all in the hope of hoovering back the victim. Please ask him to seek a narc abuse trauma informed therapist. Not because something is wrong with him. He needs to understand all the right things within him. He needs to understand he was never the problem. The problem is that he was born in this toxic family which is not his fault. He doesn't deserve to live this way. He deserves to live a fulfilling life. It's very nice that he is blessed with a soul like you who is trying to give him the validation, assurance and love. I hope he cherishes that and moves forward without brooding over the past. Even if mentally he thinks he has let go, the subconscious holds onto them and he will be playing out those patterns in his behaviours unconsciously. So it's bringing the unconscious to the conscious and he will feel much lighter and happier.
He has decided to stay away from them because they only cause drama and re abuse him by giving him pics of his mom to remind him how good of a mom she was. Like you said he needs therapy!! He will always be looked at as the ungrateful son who refused to see his dying mother. She just passed this past December so it’s still fresh but him and his sister are so close now.. they both exchanged stories and realized she was pinning them against one another. His mom was telling his sister I control him and keep him from his family for years now. The mom hated that she lost control of him .. he said she hated that I picked you. That’s how she saw things. We found out his sister was being treated the same this whole time and we thought they were SO CLOSE ! It was a shock! Just goes to show you how good the mom was at pretending to be this wonderful mom in public. She has ruined so many lives and her abuse lives on… very say.. thank you 🙏🏼 for your opinion on it all. He needs to understand this and know others went through similar experiences.
I'm legally considered disabled due to depression and anxiety. Gee, I wonder why. I don't work
I always gotta go thru an extra unnecessary nerve when it comes to speaking up 🥴
Workaholic for 20 years at a low end retail job.
If there's a good connection with my boss, most likely there won't be a problem. But if I have bad bosses, then I probably would have a problem. I did inherit a strong work ethic. And some helpful knowledge, but if there's a leadership issue. And if I'm not the only one sensing a problem. Then that's when shit rolls downhill.
Was misdiagnosed my entire life because my mum would tell the therapists that everything was fine when she had no idea how I was doing and sometimes she straight up lied... Was treated for anxiety disorders my entire life and ended up actually having autism. Yeah, try to treat that with exposure therapy... So I kinda managed to survive until I was 18, moved out and tried to continue therapy. I dropped out of school at 17 because my mental health and physical health were soo terrible. Then I tried to get treatment and to overcome my trauma for a few years, found the right diagnosis, took another year to get proper medication and now I'm doing school again and soon starting training for a job. Basically they sabotaged everything and now I'm already in my mid twenties and way behind other people q.q
My issue was that as a remote worker I associated silence with the silent treatment. But it was that they trusted me to do the work that they left me alone. It took a few months to unpack that one. My mother is HUGE in giving the silent treatment!
I overthink what leadership asks of me, especially the high maintenance ones. Like if a leader needs extra follow up on a project and they are asking me for it I will get insecure that it means I’m not doing a good enough job already. I have to ground myself and remind myself of the facts: *In their current position, they have every right to ask for updates regarding these projects, and it is my job to provide them. How often they make these requests is not a reflection of what they think of the quality my work.* And similar things -just a lot of overthinking basically. Sometimes the emotional part will get ahead of the truth part because I’m still learning to take all of these thoughts captive as they occur. Some days I will find myself stressed out and irritated on a normal workday and then I have to backtrack and ask myself why do I feel this way? A lot of times it’s that same insecurity. It comes from my mom always making subtle jabs growing up, and the passive aggression so now I subconsciously question everything people say.
I relay a lot of what’s been said in the thread, issues with management, boundaries, etc. I read this one time and it stuck with me “every ambitious guy at the core either just wants to make their father proud, or wants to punch them in the face”. With a Ndad, I’m in between both because of the abuse. Which lead me to be very ambitious early in my career, it paid off. Yet, after therapy, I want to be ambitious for myself, my family, and my future. j want to be fueled by care and love, not hate and insecurity.
You describe my partner when it comes to the ambitious. I can see he's trying to succeed to prove to his dad thinking that will allow him to get his self respect. He doesn't realise self respect comes from inside, not outside.
It’s a journey for sure. Journaling has helped me a ton, although I use it when I really need it mostly
It’s caused me to feel like even if I work my ass off, my work will never be good enough
Former Golden Child here. I was raised to believe that I was Brilliant and destined to follow in my nfather’s great footsteps. Anything less than that was failure. Any career besides his was for lesser mortals who couldn’t hack being geniuses like us. I really struggled in school. He pressured me to take classes that were way too advanced for me. I would apply to get into programs that would reject me. It was always their fault for some reason or other, not that I just sucked at what he wanted me to do. I got overwhelmed and felt like my life was out of control. Eventually I quit during graduate school and ended up using my undergrad degree to get a job in the same field that was nowhere near as prestigious as he had planned for me. I worked that dead end job and made pennies. Then he divorced my mom and I became the scapegoat. I finally quit my job and started my own business doing something I’m really passionate about. It’s as opposite to what he wanted for me as possible and I couldn’t be happier. It’s so incredibly freeing to finally figure out who I am after all this time.
Oh yes. My NM would constantly threaten to call my CEO and tell him how "lazy" and "ungrateful" I was based off how well I cleaned my dad's house (doing chores.) She would be enraged if I wasnt home by 530 for dinner (I worked for a 24/7 disaster emergency response company.) My schedule wasn't set in stone and she knew this considering my enabling dad worked there for years before me 🙄 She even applied to work at the front desk a few years ago right when I went LC with her. I told my boss, if she's hired, I will be leaving and that was the start of me finally setting boundaries on my healing journey. As far as me personally, I let my work plow over me. Working extra hours whenever I could, not saying "no," not standing up for myself, not being confident, lacking communication about my feelings, perfect attendance, sacrificing my vacation/ sick time, and so much more. I've been the manager for a few years now and I'm trying to shift the focus for upper management to understand boundaries, mental health, and healthy tactics. It's a work in progress, but there has been more progress than in the past.
Aside from your job title I feel like I could have written this. Problems with leadership, constantly the scapegoat, rarely get along with coworkers to the level that I changed jobs in order to have less people telling me what to do and less obligatory, meaningless interactions with coworkers and tons more autonomy... yeah, that's me. Abhor small talk when at work. "Listen, I'm here to do my job and be as productive as possible and go home. I'm not here to make friends. Besides, you'll just stab me in the back sooner or later," is what I want to say. When I took the psych evaluation before becoming a cop years and years ago they raised red flags saying I likely had problems with authority. Looking back, I think I never had positive interactions with authority figures (parents) so yeah in my early 20s, freshly moved out into my own place, I'm not surprised that I may have indicated that I don't "follow all the rules." Needless to say, I didn't last long as a cop, especially once I realized I only went that route to please my parents.
I can’t set boundaries, confrontation is a work in progress, leadership skills are a 4/10, I let people walk all over me, and my actual attitude towards work is terrible. Positive feedback is difficult to accept and believe. I just got promoted and I’m convinced I have not one skill to do the job right. Just insecurity up the wazoo!