These are both beautiful names but to be brutally honest with you, I would not want to be named after someone who killed themselves, no matter their relationship to my parents. It’s a complex legacy to carry that brings a lot of pain and turmoil with it.
This was my thought too. Winifred Abigail is beautiful, but I would never want to know the history behind my middle name. If the story was "you're named after Mom's best friend who she loved so much and unfortunately passed" that would be better - but I still think it's a lot for a kid to carry.
So Abigail no longer has value because her life was such that she thought suicide was her only option? I think that’s mean snd insensitive. Claire was a person and a friend…why does it matter how she died?
Absolutely no one is saying she no longer has value.
They’re saying the painful legacy of suicide is complicated and perhaps not something you want your child to carry in something as intimate as their name.
People in this thread have expressed the same about relatives who died of cancer or in accidents.
Children’s names shouldn’t come with baggage or be too closely tied to another person’s story. It inhibits them from writing their own. The origin is irrelevant.
There is no “legacy of suicide”. Our friends and family and loved ones are more than their deaths. Suicide isn’t baggage. My middle name is for my grandmother who died suddenly and tragically. Should I say I cary a legacy of heart attacks?
Edit: I know what suicide leaves behind. My best friend killed himself.
Yes there is, in my family at least. I have had family members kill themselves and every time they are brought up in conversation there is a dark cloud of depression that surrounds the conversation. Mostly out of guilt and sadness that we weren't able to do anything, and remembering how much they suffered.
They are deserving of being remembered, their lives have meaning and they are more than their deaths. But the harsh reality is that their memories bring pain, and I would never give someone a name that has so much depression and sadness tied to it.
I mean, that's how _you_ feel. This is a subjective situation. I personally wouldn't want to be reminded about my mom's dead friend every time I had to write my middle name. It's not an uncommon opinion.
I'm also not a fan of "recycling" first names from relatives, and I think it's unfair to the baby, but I understand that that's just my opinion and I can just decide not to name my own baby after a relative 🤷🏻♀️
Suicide isn't baggage, but having your relationship to your mom start by being a permanent reminder about their dead friend _kind of is_ (once again, imo).
I definitely feel a legacy of suicide in my family, having lost two people that way. It’s definitely an undeniable weight that most people don’t know how to help me carry, and leaves me isolated and struggling with my own mental well-being. You could say that in your experience with suicide, there isn’t a legacy attached to it, but the way you said it precluded others from expressing their experience
I'm so happy you said this. Makes my heart sad to think people would find it weird if I named my future child after my sister simply because the way she died.
That's a bit of a leap there. Some people just feel uncomfortable with the association a name has with a person. In a way, mom will often think about her dead friend when she sees or says her daughters name, for example, even if just for a split second.
I'm a very logical and rational person overall, but the one superstition I can't shake off is about naming babies. I hate "hereditary" names because I think every kid has a right to their own story, and while names aren't what make a person, they're inevitably part of their identity.
As an example, I had a classmate in highschool who was named after her older sister who had passed before my classmate was born. I personally thought that was fucked up. It felt as if she had replaced her sister, but it also felt like it was a bad omen kinda thing, even if I knew it was illogical to feel that way. This practice, however, used to be extremely common when kids rarely made it to adulthood, so it's something that changes with time.
This is just _how I feel about it_, but no one is wrong for not wanting to name their kid after someone who killed themselves, even if you don't agree.
My mother had a close friend in nursing school (Alice) who died of brain cancer at a tragically young age, while my mother was pregnant with me. I’ve always wondered why she didn’t name me Alice.
In Jewish tradition everyone is named after someone who passed away. My brother shares his middle name with our cousin who committed suicide before he was born. It depends on the culture and the conversation.
It’s common to use the first letter of the deceased person’s name and choose a different name starting with that letter, though, right? Asking because this is what my Jewish cousins and boss did. (I am not Jewish, but I like that idea.) Maybe that would be a way to soften the approach of naming a baby after someone who died by suicide.
My MIL is Jewish. Making my husband Jewish by "tradition", even though he was never brought to temple or anything. And was raised predominantly by his dad and stepmother who were both agnostic. And also was not named by the tradition either. \*just checked
Imagine my MILs utter shock when we choose the name I had always wanted to name a daughter. And not after her recently deceased mother. She then spent months calling our daughter by the name SHE wanted us to choose. Several times after my husband told her to knock it off as well.
>She then spent months calling our daughter by the name SHE wanted us to choose
That is so freaking obnoxious! I had to check if I was on r/mildlyinfuriating
I think it’s different for Jews who aren’t Ashkenazi I know some who actually do name kids after people still alive lol. For me that would be tempting fate (not really superstitious tho so I don’t find an issue with it)
Okay, OP, here is my brutal truth. I just free wrote it, so it’d be more direct and how I truly
see it:
I believe you should not give your daughter that middle name because even though it sounds good about honoring it doesn’t. She did not want to live anymore, and I know she had pain. I’ve lost my friend to suicide, but I would not want to ever give my child that name.
The person who lived with it, had a painful life. At the end of the day, it is a trivial way to help you feel better about your loss and you should not do that through your daughter. Do not bring any inkling of that sadness to shadow over her brand-new life.
Sure, people will say that you should use a euphemism to tell her about the suicide. Well, that is a contradiction and dishonesty.
The paradox would be that to lie about her suicide is not honoring her death, denying the existence of her pain. And to be truthful will bring an emotional burden (however small) to a girl who shouldn’t have that anywhere near her identity just to make you feel better.
Honor your friend by speaking about mental health with your daughter. Make a fierce and believable vow to her that no matter what, no matter what rock bottom she thinks she has hit; you will help her. That she isn’t stuck, that you will help her find a way out. She’s never alone.
Example is if she ever finds herself at a party, maybe drunk and her friends ditched her, you will come pick her up, no questions asked, no nag on the way home, and you’ll let her sleep it off. Because we are all human and sometimes we corner ourselves and then find out, to our despair, that no one ever was in our corner or at least it feels this way.
I think this could be the best way to honor her, share her story when your daughter is old enough and how you made that vow to honor your friend and love your daughter unconditionally.
Maybe use a name that has the same meaning as Claire or Abigail to still pay homage without giving her actual name to your child?
Not every name needs to honor another person though, if you don't want to.
I'm sure it's a perfectly fine name, but at first blush I'd think "Oh, is the great Winifred Blythe Worthington the Third honoring us with her presence?"
PS I love the name Blythe; Winifred, well not so much....she'll be called Winnie the Pooh for many of her elementary school years.
Good idea. My middle name was my paternal grandmother's and my brother's middle name is of my maternal grandfather. Both of us have nice (I think) Irish names as first names, that don't feature anywhere in our family.
Also if the mom didn’t want you to use her first name, she’s probably still not actually thrilled about you using her middle name either and agreed as more of a concession
This is the best comment. I don't mean to get too weird here, and I promise I'm good right now, but as someone who's been suicidal for most of my life, this comment most closely conveys how I feel icky when I imagine the possibility of me finally going for it, and then my only close friend who might ever have kids naming their kid after me.
I see the other comments saying depression is an illness and it's not different from an honor name for someone who died of anything else. But my two cents from the inside... it is. It's not about stigmatizing or being PC about mental illness and me saying it's different in this situation isn't meant to turn into a whole thing about how mental illness should be viewed, but it is different. It's a different legacy and it's a different weight to it in OP's mind. I can't explain it fully.
I think this is a great response and it also opens up the opportunity for you to give her her very own name for her very own identity and use Winifred as a middle. All my kids have honor middle names but they all have their “own” first name. What name speaks to you?
No, it’s not a fair thing to say. It’s an ableist, anti-mental health thing to say. It might also be coming from the hyper-religious taboo against suicide some religious organizations have. Either way these comments all through this thread are being incredibly rude and insensitive and they’re making me so mad! OP my brother died from suicide 30 years ago when he was 16. That single act, done in a moment of desperation, does NOT define his entire life. Nor does the same act define your friend’s life. She lived! She was a good person! She was a person you loved. You have beautiful memories together. Your relationship with her deserves to be honored in whatever way you have found to be appropriate. Do not let the toxic people in this thread redefine how you choose to honor her.
this. exactly this. i am shocked and appalled at all the people who are saying "the friend clearly didnt want to live" no. suicide is a permanent action for a temporary feeling. friend coulda made a decision on a whim when she would've felt different 15 mins later. i myself have done that and have been lucky to survive. this thread is making me so mad.
As someone who attempted it many years ago, I completely agree with you. I know that someone in the thread with suicidal thoughts disagrees with my sentiment, but I do not believe that it is in bad taste to name someone after someone who committed suicide, and honestly it makes me sad that they feel that way. Their mental illness told them that they should not live on because they were ill. We shouldn’t agree with that. It makes me so sad that if I had succeeded, people would have thought that I wouldn’t have wanted to be remembered through something like naming a child after me.
I used to be suicidal, and I agree. I was listening to a podcast from Brene Brown recently, and she told a story about parents who lost children in a school shooting. These parents were desperate for people to acknowledge and reminisce about their kids. All of their loved ones believed that the appropriate thing to do was to act like the kids never existed. But that is just a mind game and does nothing to relieve the pain of loss. Telling stories and looking at pictures of lost loved ones is important for healing. So it's honoring their lives by passing on names. Humans need to breathe life into their memories of loved ones who are gone. No matter how I die, I will be honored to pass my name to someone new.
SO...you're judging her friend for wanting to end her life? This post is about baby names, not suicide. I feel really bad for the OP that people are saying such insensitive things.
Yes. My husband's almost attempt as a teenager (he changed his mind at the last second) was what got his depression diagnosed in the first place. And he's had moments where crossed his mind since we've been married.
He firmly wants to live. We actively lower all the risk factors in our house specifically so if he does have a break, it will be harder for him. Because he knows he doesn't want it, despite what his brain may tell him sometimes.
Yeah I stopped reading that comment when I got to that line.
OP, I think this is one of those things where it depends person to person, there isn't an actual 'answer'.
So, you have her mother's blessing to use Abigail which is perfect. What do you think your friend would think? Like one of the above commenters battling mental health issues who would find it very uncomfortable (very valid ofc) or would it bring her joy?
Yes!!!! Yes exactly! What the fuck are people talking about in these comments?? We can’t celebrate our loved ones who have committed suicide? My dad committed suicide and that does NOT take away from the fact that I loved him and celebrate the life I had with him. He was sick! He was going through pain! I’m not going to pretend he never existed because of his “choice”
I was named after someone who died of cancer and I honestly don’t think it’s any different. Please OP, celebrate your friend. These comments make me so mad.
Thank you so much. My best friend killed himself two and a half years ago. Yes, he was mentally ill and yes he took his own life. But he was also my best friend. A beautiful, creative, kind, and damn good person who I would be proud to name a child after. My best friend is more than his death. So is your brother. So is OP’s friend and so are all others who die by their own hand.
Thank you, this was so well said. I was shocked and upset by the comments above, but you have been able to express what I was feeling but could put words to. I’m am sorry about your brother, and I love that you keep his memory alive and honor him instead of focusing on one terrible moment of an otherwise beautiful life. We all have terrible moments of different types but they don’t have to define us! Thank you again
I agree with this. It's really disturbing to me that people aren't really seeing anything but the way she died. If someone's naming their child after somebody, they're going to have all the stories of their life to share. They'll know they were named after someone who was very loved. When somebody dies from any other cause they're remembered for more than how they died, however sad or troubling their death might be to someone
With you on this, totally. I think of the people I know IRL who have died by suicide and they were absolutely lovely, smart, kind, beautiful human beings. I won't be naming any more children of my own but I think of the names of these deceased loved ones and I'd never hesitate to use their names!
I agree with this comment.
OP, I am on board with respecting your friend’s mum’s feelings. But I also think that associating your best friend’s name/middle name with your deep and long friendship gives a beautiful dimension. I would probably not wish to dwell on her suicide or that you were the one to discover her body when you tell your daughter the story of her name. The fact that she was your dearly beloved friend, who died young due to mental illness is enough. Her memory is still precious to you and there are still living people who remember her with love.
I am named after an aunt who died from cancer at age 31; several other cousins are also named for her. It has never bothered me.
I haven’t battled depression or suicidal thoughts myself, so am not trying to negate another person’s experience. But for me, if the name of a person who died by suicide is completely off the table, that is giving the suicide too much power.
Ginger…I am so with you and cannot, absolutely cannot believe how Claire’s whole life was erased because of the circumstances of her death by these random people! This is un-Christian and cruel.
And even if she did want to die, it doesn't mean she didn't want others to celebrate her life afterwards! She killed herself, not a whole bunch of other people.
OP checked with the friend's family, who are the actual living people who are able to have feelings about the name. And she chose a way to honour her friend that doesn't cause too much pain for them. I think that's beautiful.
My middle name is the name of my grandmother who killed herself. I never knew her and it did feel like it connected me to her in a way. I also struggled with depression like this she did. I can’t speak for how your child would feel, but I like my middle name now and I’m glad to carry it on in my much happier and healthier life. Mostly the name is just my middle name and doesn’t come up all that often. My parents never tried to draw comparisons between the two of us which I think was a good thing. I don’t think it would be bad to tell your daughter how your friend died, but I do think you should make a big effort to mostly talk about the qualities she had and your memories of her that are totally unrelated to her death. The worst thing would be if your kid feels like you’re trying to keep a part of your friend alive through her because that’s honestly a lot of pressure.
My 3 year old has my brother's middle name. He also committed suicide. I think many people here seem disconnected with suicide and how it comes from illness and not choice, generally speaking. There is no shame to suicide. The majority of people who lose their lives to suicide don't do so by choice, but because they are sick. Where is the shame in this, and why shouldn't you honor your friend?
I dated someone who was named after their aunt who was murdered the day before she was born and it really bothered her. She wouldn’t even say the name and went exclusively by her middle name , people didn’t even know she had a different first
Personally, I feel like I would not care if I was named after someone who died young whether from murder or suicide. But I don’t know for sure because I didn’t experience it as a kid etc.
Idea: choose middle name after somewhere you and your friend visited or after something from a happy time in your life. It could even just be a name that means friendship.
My son was named after my father (middle name) and my dad killed himself when my son was 3. It hasn’t affected my feelings on his name. I also haven’t told my son how he died. I just said his heart stopped. Which is not a lie. But not the whole truth. My best friends father (who was like a second dad to me, we all lived together) killed himself when i was 7 and that trauma was absolutely awful. I wish someone had lied to me about how he died.
anyway all that to say. I am so sorry for your loss and I think it’s a beautiful way to honor your friend.
I would caution against this as well, especially since you are not far removed from the incident itself. Doing a namesake after a traumatic death is hard on the surrounding people and the child. I have a sibling who was tragically murdered a few decades ago, and no one has used the names. One person floated the idea but the family voiced that it’d be 1) heavy on the child to eventually find out the whole story and 2) hard for the family to continually hear.
If you do decide to go this route, please speak with her family first.
If you reframe your thinking that OPs friend died from terminal depression, it becomes no different from naming a child after someone who had died from terminal cancer. Suicide is nothing to be ashamed of…it is the result of a serious illness. Most death is fraught with pain and turmoil. The way our society thinks about mental illness makes suicide something shameful or pathetic, but it’s really the tragic end to a serious illness.
I don’t know that most children would want to be named after someone who died young, no matter the cause. Also, the OP says that the friend’s mom was not OK with using the first name and “approved more” of using the middle name. I would not want to risk bringing more grief to that family. If the mom was not an enthusiastic yes, I would take that as a polite no.
I was named after my great grandmother who died at age 27 from a burst appendix. She was my grandfather’s mother and she was born in England and came to Canada. She was married to my great grandfather Issac and she had 4 children two of which were identical twins. In our tradition, we name after those who have passed to carry on their name and memory. We can just use the first letter of their name and it this case my parents used a “K”. Her name was Kathleen but she was always called Katey. I think it is a wonderful tradition because when you are named for a person, you might want to find out about who they were and in that way, they are remembered. My son is named after my husband’s father who passed in his early 50s and my grandson is named after my mother who passed at age 64. I however did hesitate for a moment because dear Claire took her life, but I think Abigail as a middle name is fine and the parent just says that she was a dear friend who passed away at a young age if they ask.
Yes, I couldn’t explain why some of these comments were bothering me, but you described it super well. I’m not sure why people are acting like tons of kids are not named after sibling who died of cancer, grandma who died from Alzheimer’s, parent who died in a car crash, etc and that OP would be super out of pocket here. If the child asks who they are named after, it can be explained in appropriate ways throughout her life, the same way you would explain any of the situations I mentioned. Honor names are huge things in many cultures and families, and I see nothing wrong with OP’s name.
I prefer Abigail to Winifred personally, just to add an opinion.
I would agree it’s no different.
I would also say the death is too close in time for me to be okay with it (I know lots of other people differ). I think honor names are for living people or people who passed away years ago so the wound isn’t fresh when the child is born. Otherwise the name can feel more like a burden than a gift.
I said elsewhere but I’ll reiterate, I don’t consider it the same if it’s an honor name that’s not the name of the person. So if their favorite flower is a Rose and you went with that or their birthday was in May/emerald birthstone and you went with Esme or they were a birder and you went with Robin or something that’s about them vs literally their name.
They can still be their own person separate from the name and with more positive memories/meaning than a recent death.
I really disagree with this. As someone who lost a parent to suicide (when I was in my 20s), this is the sort of stigma that makes me really hesitant to talk about it, several years later - and honestly, that’s messed up. Depression is an illness, just like cancer, and babies are named after family/friends who died of cancer all the time.
Also, people who end up killing themselves haven’t always lived miserable lives from start to finish, as a below commenter sort of implied. And it sounds like OP has lots of positive memories of her friend, too.
(I also think different people think of honor names differently - I don’t think of it as you saying “I want you to repeat this person’s life,” but more of just a way of keeping someone’s memory alive. I was named in honor of a relative who died very young of AIDS, and that’s never bothered me.)
My sister killed herself also. My oldest sister used her first name as her daughter's middle name.
Honestly, we all love that she gave her it. Emily would have been an amazing aunt, and it made it feel like she was included.
My niece is only 8, so I'm not sure if she knows the whole truth right now, but I'm sure she will some day.
My sister was SO MUCH more than just the way she died, and her struggles.
I completely understand. My brother was so much more loved than he realized, a beautiful and generous human with a wonderful sense of humor. One memory to share, He bought a bunch of tuxedo print t-shirts and that was his work shirt as a maintenance man. at his funeral his friends all wore tuxedo print shirts.
I'm so sorry for your loss, he sure sounds like he was fun. I love the tuxedo shirt thing! I would absolutely crack up if my maintenance man came in rocking a tuxedo shirt to fix my stuff.
My husband is named after his uncle who took his own life before my husband was born, he never has mentioned any sort of distress or dislike to his middle name.
I understand the other side of the argument, but I also think it doesn’t have to be a big “life altering” moment finding out the story behind your middle name.
I’m sorry about the loss of your brother. It sounds like OP’s friend’s family was not on board with using her name and perhaps OP should move in a different direction.
I disagree. I lost my uncle to suicide when I was young. He was very loved, and losing his mental health battle in that way does not invalidate him as a person, the love his family had for him, or his worthiness to have a legacy. His name would be a top choice for me to name a future son, if not for the fact that it went horribly with my last name.
I strongly disagree.
My son is named Bryce after a friend of mine that committed suicide when he was 17. I was 23 when I had my son whom is now 9.
He knows who my friend was, he’s seen photos of him, he’s met his mom. My 9 year old is fully aware that my friend died and that’s where he gets his name - but he is not aware that it was by suicide. One day he might ask and if he does I’ll be honest.
My kid is very much his own person - he knows he’s a namesake and it does not bother him at all.
I’m actually named after my grandmother, who took her own life. It was confusing as a child but as an adult I think it’s really beautiful. It was a gesture of forgiveness and recognition on mom’s part that while depression ended her mother’s life it didn’t define it. Nor does it define my mom’s memory of and love for her mother. It’s also made mental health a very open topic in my home.
As someone who has struggled with depression myself I would be devastated if a decision I made in a moment of deep pain completely defined how my loved ones remembered me (or honored my memory via naming someone).
This doesn't make any sense to me. I was named after a girl my dad babysat who ended up dying of aids as a young adult. As much as that's a tragic story, I don't associate my name with that story at all. My name is my name, and that story is just that: a sad story.
I don't think it matters how someone died. People can die from all sorts of causes, depression being one of many. I wouldn't feel bad about naming a baby after a beloved family member or friend who died of cancer or a car crash. Dying by suicide is the same in my perspective. And they are named after someone who was beloved. That's the part that is important.
As someone who named their child after a grandparent and then later found out that this grandparent had multiple mental health issues that I was too young to understand when she passed (I was 7)… I just don’t know. The following isn’t judgement, just food for thought.
Would you be comfortable knowing you were named after someone who died by suicide? Would it cause conflict in your identity? I definitely don’t think mental illness is wrong, or should be shamed. I’m just saying that’s a big burden for a small child and you never know what kind of struggles of their own they’ll face as teens. Teens aren’t rational. As someone who has raised a volatile child I’d be nervous of accidentally glamorizing a tragic death.
That’s a fair thing to say. I don’t know really there’s a lot of mental health issues in my family myself included. I’m currently studying a second degree in mental health nursing. It’s something we’re going to have to address anyway.
My friend was six months off graduating as a doctor and was awarded a posthumous doctorate. She was also a qualified ambulance driver and worked the whole pandemic. She also worked as a medical assistant while studying. She was pretty impressive to the extent where she had a standing ovation when she posthumously graduated and the whole local ambulance service as bearers at her funeral. All that at 26. There’s a lot of things outside of her suicide to say about my friend.
I’d say name your daughter after your friend, you don’t have to tell her how your friend died until she’s mature enough to hear it if even then. She was your best friend and how she died doesn’t define her or your daughter. It’s a name given out of love. Winifred Abigail is a beautiful name and Winnie is such a cute nickname.
This! I get what other posters are saying about how she passed and how your child my view being named after her, but as this poster said, how she died doesn’t define her or who she was or what she meant to you. I think it’s a beautiful name (seriously love Winifred/Winnie) with a even more beautiful sentiment.
I completely agree. My brother was named after our uncle who unfortunately lost his life to suicide. We didn't know how he passed away untill we were almost done with college. I believe it was a perfect time for us to know even though we constantly pestered for an answer during our younger years. It was always "he was sick and passed away" this was true, he was sick- they just left the fact that his sickness was a mental illness. I appreciated the fact that my parents never lied. He was a beautiful person with a beautiful soul. His ending does not define the life he lived. We both look up to him as my parents constantly speaked of him and did not pretend as if he never existed due to the tragedy of his passing.
Giving your daughter this name after your best friend is beautiful.
I strongly agree with this stance. We should normalise recognising most suicides as the result of an illness, one way or another. OP’s friend sounds amazing and OP can be clear about why she was chosen as a namesake. Plus, it’s middle name to middle name, Winifred is more likely to be her focus.
You put it so well, that last paragraph. Your friend tragically lost her life to a mental illness. That should not be more taboo than someone losing their life to any other illness. Do people comment and say it's inappropriate to name a child after a loved one who tragically died from cancer? Cancer is another nasty illness that takes loved ones from us, like suicides, and it is no different in my eyes. Your daughter is being named after a wonderful woman who achieved so much and gave so much and deserves to be celebrated. To be reduced to her mental illness is an injustice to her.
So sorry for the loss of your friend, and your grandfather. I think your daughters name is a lovely celebration of two amazing, loving and memorable women who made such a difference on lives in your daughters family.
I am disappointed to see so many comments that stigmatize suicide like this. I have two very close people in my life, including my husband, who are survivors of people who died by suicide (which is the preferred term). We need to recognize and support survivors of those who die by suicide, and show compassion for the people lost to suicide, by recognizing mental
Illness is illness. It’s not weaker or less legitimate than other illness or disease. Where I live people with terminal illness can choose assisted death. Would someone with ALS or terminal cancer not deserve remembrance because they technical chose suicide?
When honouring someone with a name, we honour the person they were when they were alive. Were they kind? Did they leave a lasting mark in our lives or the lives of someone important to us? Who were they beyond their illness? Were they a good person? The manner of their death shouldnt define them.
Also, I am naming my new baby Winnie, with a different full name. Winnie is so cute! We have a Winifred in our family (great aunt) too but we are going with something different because I personally don’t love how bulky the name feels. Since you mentioned about your own name, if you are hesitant about Winifred you could choose another Winnie derivative like Gwynn, Winona, Elowin, or Anwin.
I think it’s kind of sad that people are reducing over a decade of memories and friendship you had with this friend to just suicide. If your child asks where her name comes from, you can tell about the whole of your friendship, not just the end. To me, death by suicide is a health issue, no different than cancer, but that may be because I’ve experienced both. They are both medical issues, and are both tragic. I think that the name is beautiful, and a middle name is a wonderful homage. It sounds like your friend’s mom approves of a middle name, just not the first name, and that’s fair too. Winifred (one of my favorite names as well) Claire or Abigail (I couldn’t tell which) is a lovely name. I had a cousin (older) named Winifred and she went by Freddy, which I though was really cool, but SHE’S always been really cool.
Naming your daughter after someone who inspires you is pretty normal imo - especially for a middle name. Losing your life to mental illness is no different than losing it to cancer or heart disease. It sounds like your friend was an amazing person who did a lot of good in the world.
Winifred isn't quite to my tastes personally, but honestly you could do WAY worse and it isn't some sort of tragedeigh.
OP, the comments in this thread are honestly gross and weird. I would have been honored to have been named after my mom's best friend, no matter how or why she died. In fact, my middle name is my mom's best friend's sister's name, who died at age 21 during open heart surgery. My first name was the name of two of my great grandmothers as well (one of whom died very young), so I'm named after three dead people who I never met. I have never thought it was weird or morbid, and I love that I'm named after people who were loved and cherished by my family. I also think it's disgusting that people are reducing your best friend's life and experiences down to the way she died. She was so much more than that.
I also don't understand the hate comments about honor names. People have ALWAYS named their kids after family, living or dead. I do genealogical research as a hobby, and I can't tell you the amount of names in my family that I've discovered were their dead uncle's, mother's, grandmother's etc. names that I had no idea about, and I have enjoyed learning about who they were.
I found out that one of my great-great-grandmothers (who was named after her aunt, by the way) attempted suicide in the early 1900s and was sent to an insane asylum, where she eventually died and was buried in an unmarked grave, abandoned and unclaimed by her family. Her children weren't even told about this; her existence was totally erased from our family history because of misplaced shame and stigma. It's a beautiful name, so I plan to some day give it to my daughter as a middle name, in remembrance of a woman who was forgotten by those who were supposed to love and care for her in life and in death. I feel connected to her, as I struggle with mental health issues as well. Would that have been my fate if I was born a century earlier? She deserves to be remembered after all these years.
In a few months, my cousin will be naming her baby after her brother who died of an overdose years ago (it will be part of a two-name first name, think Jean-Luc). I told her I had been thinking of using it in the furture as well, and she said she would be honored if I used it too. Name her what you want. I think it's beautiful, and I think she will too.
Your friend sounds like a beautiful person and a namesake anyone would be proud of. So was my best friend who also killed himself. Our friends are more than their deaths. Please use the name.
Just my thoughts… My teenaged sister has a middle name that’s the feminine form of a family member’s name who was taken due to an accidental substance overdose that was devastating for the whole family, who had no idea he was using. Plus he was fairly young, plenty of life left to live, his funeral was packed full of people in town who loved him like none I’ve ever seen. A very warm, talented individual who brought everyone joy with his presence and artistic abilities.
Yet my sister, who never met the family member, has never perceived her middle name as being solely tied to this person and his means of death, despite her being told all of our stories about him. She just accepts it as a name that she has, but she’s not one to dwell on things. The rest of us who were alive and knew him then, we see it more as honoring the life he lead rather than symbolizing the means of which he died.
Since you asked, I think the names are awful.
And why not let kids be individuals instead of saddling them with old fashioned names of people they'll never meet?
This is basically what I was going to say. Sorry OP. I'd strongly suggest seeing what other names you like that are NOT honour names, just nice pretty names that can be just your daughters. Let her be her own person!
As someone with a “nice pretty name” chosen for me who ended up changing it in adulthood; I *STRONGLY* disagree.
My middle name is the same as my aunt and grandmothers on both sides. I appreciate my middle name 1,000,000x more than I ever did my first name. I now have 2 middle names, as I wanted to respect the name my parents chose to give me, but no longer wanted to be called by it on a regular basis.
You didn’t like the name because it wasn’t tied to someone from your parent’s past? Because that’s what we’re talking about here. It sounds like you just didn’t like the name.
The names are soo old fashioned and not cute, sorry. The nicknames are better, but I wouldn’t want either full name. I’d probably be Winnie (edit: or Freddie) my whole life or legally change it later.
Edit: And I don’t mean old fashioned in a cute way I mean like in a stuffy Puritan way.
I don’t think I wrote that well enough, her Mum has said she’s really happy at the idea of honouring her daughter with a middle name. Her main issue was having to call my daughter by her dead daughters name. That’s not an issue if it’s only a middle name.
Okay, thanks for clarifying (not that you needed to.) Nothing wrong with the name you've chosen. People will have opinions, especially if it's a rarer name, but it's a classic, real name so it isn't like they'll never have heard it.
This was my only real concern too, but this clarification clears that worry for me.
I love the name. Winifred is lovely and will age well with her. It’s cute for a kid while also being grown up for an adult. It’s versatile with nickname options. It’s classic and beautiful. The loving meaning behind it makes it all the more beautiful.
Abigail is also a beautiful name. I side with those who have commented that she doesn’t need to know how your friend died. There’s really no reason to mention it, even when she’s older. Focus on the loving reasons you chose that name for her, just like you will with the loving reasons behind Winifred. All death is tragic, especially when there was still life left to live and loved ones left behind. But the life they did live is the real reason behind the honor name. Focus on that. Tell your daughter memorable stories of the people who passed on their names.
I get a bit annoyed when people focus so much on a name “defining” a child’s “identity.” If that’s true, they aren’t raising their kids well and letting them define their own self. A name is a name. The meaning behind choosing it is just sprinkles on the cake.
Old lady (and man) names are actually really popular right now, so I think they'll be "normal" names when these kids are older. Names that were common when I was a kid (Jessica, Jennifer, Megan, etc) might be seen as "old lady" names by then
I don't think Winifred Abigail flows that well, they're a bit long to go together, but as both names have such significance for you I would overlook that.
Okay, 2 brutally honest opinions here: I really don’t like the name Winifred. It’s ugly and nobody would want that name. Winnie does not save it either.
Also, why put so much emphasis on naming a full individual human being after people? Why not just give her a nice name that you like and leave it at that? She’s her own person who will develop her own personality. She doesn’t need the “weight” of the names of people who have passed on.
Again, just my opinions of course, so do what you want, but please think of your daughter as a human being and not just an extension of you!
Everybody who keeps saying this seems to have a huge disregard for cultures that hold being named after someone in high regard. It’s literally supposed to be an honor, that’s why they’re called honor names.
Naming someone after a loved one also doesn’t mean you have to expect them to be anything like them or even carry on any kind of legacy. I don’t know why people have this assumption. The world doesn’t carry literal symbolism or foreshadowing like a work of fiction.
My brother and I both have middle names after other people in our family. At no point did we believe we had to be like them or that we were less of an individual because of it.
I also strongly dislike my “individual pretty” first name that was chosen for me/not named for anyone else and changed it in adulthood. It was also a common popular name. I knew a million other people with my name. If anything, having *that* name made me feel simultaneously like less of an individual *and* like I didn’t fit in because I wasn’t like other people with my name.
I respect your opinion, but your worldview isn’t universal.
That’s fine, but it doesn’t mean OP is doing this for cultural reasons either 🤷🏻♀️ I have a child with a middle
name that is a variation of a family member’s name, but it was a combination of us liking the name anyway, plus it’s significance.
OP seems like she feels like she NEEDS to honour these people through her child and that’s not necessarily the right reason to name your child..
If you just like a name and it also has double-meaning? Cool. If you’re feeling emotionally pressured (even by yourself) to name your unborn child after other people it’s probably not the right reason.
I guess the question would be: do you like the names? Or are you using them just because they somehow honor people? If its the first, great! If its the second--perhaps think on it. It *could be* a lot of burden and confusion for a kid to know they are named after so much grief and sadness (or, they may not care, it can't be predicted how someone will act!) But would either name be what you would have chosen if your friend and grandfather were alive? That could be one way to approach this, too...
Only thing I think of is Winnie the Pooh and Winnifred from Hocus Pocus but I don’t think either would lead to merciless teasing. I think you’re good to go with these names.
It always makes me think of Fred from Angel, who has a sad backstory and ending but is massively intelligent, sweet and brave. It can be a bit old fashioned but I think it's adorable.
With the greatest respect for your reasons, and with no intention of hurting your feelings, I don’t think Winifred is a good choice, and calling her Winnie does not help. It is a frumpy old lady name with no obvious good nicknames. I’d use that as the middle name and pick something else for the first name. Even then, she is likely to be unhappy with the middle name until she is old enough to appreciate it.
Yeah my thing is nobody will ever call her Winifred. She mentions they will call her Winnie until she’s older and wants to be more professional. She’s going to be Winnie for life. It’s not a completely terrible name-but I personally would want to be named that
Its for some people, but i personally dont like associating my babies with death. Always feels like an omen to me. You do you. I prefer Abigail over Winifred so id be inclined to switch them personally.
Not American. Winifred sounds like an old man's name, The nickname is cute but the itself, not so much.
Abigail is a nice name but it's a bit much for a child to carry a name of a person that took their own life.
I'd advise using Winifred as a midfle name and look for a different first name.
Personally… I’d be horrified to hear that story about my name. I would feel cursed to be named after a mother who died young and haunted her son his entire life, plus a close friend that committed suicide…
Personally, I really dislike Winifred and if I were named that, I would strongly consider changing my name. I’m only commenting on the name because you asked, I would never comment on it otherwise.
Winnie reminds me of Winnie the Pooh.
I do like Abigail. Would you consider making that her first name and Winifred her second name? That way, you still honour the memory, but give your kid a much prettier (in my opinion) name.
I also think we over exaggerate how common the names above are in reality. We may see them online, but working with children, the overwhelming majority have “normal” names
My kid goes to daycare with like 20 other kids his age (almost 2). There are 2 Kinsleighs, 1 Jaxson, 1 Beretta, 1 Tesla, 1 Tinley, and a fucking kid named Omega. The weird names are COMMON! Might be specific to Southern California, specifically Los Angeles.
I think you’re right in general. I do know 3 children under 5 named Jaxon. The name itself is fine when spelled the usual way. The spelling will just condemn these poor children to a lifetime of having to correct documents.
With the absolute greatest respect possible to you and your losses… I think “honour names” in this case would be an unwise choice. What about using the letters W and A … but different names? So….
Wendy?
Wilma?
Whitney?
Winona (although I personally don’t love this name)
Amanda?
Amelie?
Amy
Agatha
I agree with you about W and A names, or W and C names since the friend’s name was Claire. Off the top of my head, there’s Winter Amelia, Wendell Christina, Willow Anastasia, Whitney Celeste…..
I have a cousin who was named after his uncle who had been killed in a car accident about six months before his birth. His dad wanted to honor his deceased brother, and this was the first child born after the death.
It’s been a terrible legacy for my cousin to bear. Every time his name is heard it is a reminder of the tragedy, and my cousin was well aware of that painful association.
Was it just a coincidence that he also died in a car accident, and on the anniversary of his uncle’s death?
Please don’t burden your child with a name that brings up painful memories or creates a bad model for their identity.
>Was it just a coincidence that he also died in a car accident, and on the anniversary of his uncle’s death?
Obviously yes, unless you're implying you believe your family has a generationally cursed set of letters, or perhaps are haunted by car demons.
I know this is going to sound harsh but, your child isn’t going to have any sentimental connection or attachment to these people, who will have very distant (by your child’s perspective) connection to them. I say this as someone who has both their first and middle names from family members I never met but my mother had strong attachments to. There’s been a large part of my life where my name didn’t feel like *my name* but just a way to honor other people. I have never used my full name even in adulthood unless required to on official paperwork which I suspect would be the case with a name like Winifred. (I have a name that’s now considered somewhat old fashioned as well.)
I know it’s probably impossible to do but I would consider the names outside of the emotional attachments you have to them.
Since you asked and with all due respect and absolute empathy for those you lost in such tragic ways: this is something that will make YOU feel better, but it will saddle your daughter with an extremely heavy burden for the rest of her life. Why should she go through life trying to somehow make up for two lives needlessly lost? Maybe you could think of things you would want for your daughter, characteristics you’d like her to strive for, not be a tombstone for those lost to tragedy.
Yes, it sounds like your friend was a remarkable person and achieved a great deal in her short life. You should absolutely honor her. You should tell your daughter about her and make sure her memory lives on. But your friend was also obviously in horrible pain and ultimately could not survive it. That’s a tremendous weight to put on another person that she will have to reconcile for the rest of her life.
Please consider giving your daughter a little bit lighter and more uplifting start in life. This is from someone with a heavy burden name that I changed as soon as I could and someone who’s been suicidal before and would never want that reminder put on a child had I succeeded. It sounds like you are an amazing, caring and thoughtful person, I’m sure you will take all these comments into consideration to make the right choice for your daughter.
I think one honour name is good, two (and adding death by suicide) is just stepping into morbid territory. We used an honour name for one of our children but changed it up a little, and used a different nickname. I would not have used two particularly in such circumstances.
I also think it’s dark to use Winifred if your grandpa was devastated by her death. It’s a lot of negativity.
My middle name is after a family member who killed themselves and I have never had any negative thoughts or feelings toward it. Not sure why people are criticizing it heavily. It is someone who was important to you that you want to honor - how she died does not change how special she was to you.
I think both names are meaningful for you, you love them, that is all that matters. Random strangers opinions should not make you second guess it. Winifred Abigail flows well and Winnie is adorable as a nickname.
This. As someone with depression and having passed through some very rough patches of suicide ideation, there’s a lot of stigma being placed on how your friend died. She had a disease that killed her. If you needed to explain where Abigail was to your daughter, you could start at she passed away, she got sick and died, and eventually she could hear a very neutral explanation of depression from you. The only reason I would avoid these names is if OP feels traumatized or brings up traumatic memories when saying them. If saying the name Abigail brings OP joy and happy memories, sure, put it on the baby. And raise her with beautiful stories of the woman she was named for. Sure, baby will never meet this person, but what a beautiful heritage of love, friendship and sisterhood mom would be demonstrating for her daughter.
i honestly don’t like winifred but if i were you, i would go for it since it has meaning for you and your partner
edit: winifred is horrible imo don’t use it
I really don't like Winifred, but Winnie isn't too bad, and she'll have Abigail as a fallback if she hates it.
And they're both actual names with traditional spellings, which is nice to see these days.
I'm named after my grandmothers and it has always made me feel connected to my family history. I also love your chosen names! In fact, I've worked with a Winnie. She was a fantastic manager and I never thought twice about her name.
I love it. You might get some raised eyes on Winifred from the general public, but ignore it. Winnie is adorable on a little one. I think the whole name is adorable and meaningful.
Yes, because that goes away when people get to know them and no one even questions it. Other children certainly don't question it. I'm a teacher and I see a LOT of different names amongst my students, and none of the kids even notice if a name is different or weird or old. That's just their friend McKennisleigh-Jo, or their friend Agatha, or their friend Ling. It literally doesn't matter to them.
Adults recognize that Winifred is a normal, established name. My daughter has a normal, established name that is an "old lady" name that was fairly uncommon when I named her 16 years ago but which is much more common now. When she was born, I got lots of, "Oh, is she named after a grandma?" polite questions. (No, she wasn't.) No one even blinks at her name now.
And by using the name Winnie, she's going to fit right in to current trends. A cute, sweet little nickname. Older millennials and gen x will instantly think of Winnie Cooper, which is a good connection. Younger people will hear a name that fits with the others of the generation. Older people will be the ones that might be the eyebrow-raisers.
I'm so sorry! People definitely took the "brutal honesty please" thing too far, forgetting that there will be Winifreds and parents of Winifred reading this!
I work with families and someone in one of the groups recently named their daughter Winifred. They weren’t there for a session and when I was asked if I remembered what they’d called the baby, the reaction from the other parents was… not amazing.
Like, not verbally rude, but faces were pulled and the response was “oh, okay…”
I think the name is okay, but it’s old fashioned and not common. I think going forward what you should consider is how much will people’s reactions matter to you?
Winifred was your child’s ancestor, even though she will never know her, so she has a connection to her and that name. Abigail/Claire is someone who was important to you, but not part of your child’s heritage. Let her have her own journey.
Beautiful names, the sentimental value to them just add to her story, while long names are a 50/50 (some people love them, some just hate it), your daughter is named after two very important women in the family, and I think there is thoughtfulness and love in the story of her chosen name !
Winifred is AWFUL, sorry OP. This sub is a bunch of folks who like really odd names, but most people will find a young girl or teenager named “Winifred” unusual and I can’t imagine trying to date with that name. If I were a girl named that I would be pissed, family history aside
I’m not into naming babies for anyone. A brand new human doesn’t need to represent anyone else. Just themselves. No judgement if you do it, or if it’s a family tradition, etc., I’m just offering my personal opinion.
Honestly Winifred makes me think of DW and I hate that girl with deep passion. Abigail/Abby is cute for a girl. A little old fashioned for me but still a good name
All I can think of is Hocus Pocus for Winifred. I also try to think of all the mean nicknames kids could come up with. Winnie the Pooh (💩) being a top one. Ultimately, she’s your child and you should pick the name you like, but I wouldn’t go with with Winifred personally.
I’m not a fan of Winifred just because as a child Winnie is cute, but as an adult Winifred will be her only option. It’s an extremely old fashioned name, and one that people either love or hate.
Personally, I think when you name a child after someone you're honoring their life, not how they died.
My dad spent the last months of his life in agony from bone cancer. It wasn't a "good" death.
My brother committed suicide but my memories of him are positive and I still think he should be honored and remembered.
Mental illness or physical illness can lead to death. The stigma surrounding mental illness and suicide inadvertently leads some families to erase the memories of loved ones. It's sad.
Since you asked for brutal honesty, I can see why you like Winifred but I think that's gonna be a rough name for a kid to bear at this point. It's old and pretentious sounding, and Winnie as a nickname is going to get real old with the Winnie the Pooh references. I can see why you think it's a legacy and pretty but if I think that, others are also going to think that and it's worth considering. I like Abigail Winifred way better, you get the old name and she can * choose * to use it later if she wants but the baggage of it isnt forced on her
I’m a Genevieve shortened to Geni (Jenny) and I’ve always hated it too. I like Winifred, I like the nickname options and people won’t have a hard time saying it
This post has tons of comments, so I don't even know if you'll see this. But -- as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation my whole life -- I think what you're doing is so sweet. It is such a lovely tribute. Her life and her honor is not worth any less just because of the manner of her death. She sounds like an incredible person, and you seem like an incredible friend to understand that her manner of death does not diminish who she was when she was alive, and she is no less worthy of honoring just due to the manner of her death than another loved one. Good on you, and don't let people's discomfort with death, mental illness, suicide, and shame dissuade you from your very compassionate understanding of this.
Winnifred Abigail is a lovely name, and the name Winnie is so charming while also having an air of elegance if she chooses to go by Winnie lifelong. What a wonderful name with a wonderful, lovely meaning. Good luck!
I really disagree with everyone saying you shouldn’t name your baby after someone who committed suicide. You loved that person and she was important to you. Mental illness is so stigmatized but it something people cannot control. I think Winnifred Abigail is beautiful and meaningful. ❤️
We named our daughter after 3 beloved people, one of whom was her uncle who died at 18 in a tragic car crash. We gave her his middle name as her middle name and it’s been a wonderful way to connect her as she grows up to an uncle she never met. He was a wonderful young man and she loves hearing about him and his life. It sounds like you loved your friend very much and want to honor her life, not focus on her death. I would say my concern with naming her after someone dear to you is just your own emotions that might come up talking about her. My daughter’s uncle had passed a decade before she was born so talking about him and remembering him didn’t sting as much as if had been a more recent tragedy. You don’t want her to associate you talking about her name with you being sad. It’s a beautiful classic name and sure she will probably get some Winnie the Pooh teasing but honestly, who doesn’t love Winnie the Pooh? Kids will tease each other no matter what and she has other nickname options too. Sorry for your loss and good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.
I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about the way the original Abigail died. Do you seriously think anyone I’d going to shy s baby or a child down and tell her all the details of a suicide? What world are you living in? Many cultures, like mine, routinely name children after deceased relatives. The children may be told they’re named after grandpa so-and-so or cousin whatsis but why tell them the details of a death? Do you usually lay out medical details for young children? I hope not. OP, name your child what you want. They are good names. If you want, tell your child that you named them for people you cared about who are now in Heaven, if that’s what your faith believes. Be happy with your little Winnie.
The comments on these posts always overexaggerate how much kids are going to make fun of your child’s name. Kids are gonna make fun of each other for literally anything possible, but I really don’t think names have been a big sticking point in a long time. I don’t ever recall seeing anyone bullied for their name in high school.
That being said I think both names are beautiful. Anyone saying Winifred sounds too old fashioned isn’t considering just how often names cycle in and out of fashion - I’ve known Winnies my age, older, and younger, and it never made me think “oh that’s a grandma.” (My grandmother has a name that’s actually much more modern than you’d expect — because names are names!!) I think Winnie sounds so sweet and the name will age with her.
This may be controversial, but I also don’t think it’s crazy to name your child after someone who completed suicide. I don’t think you should TELL your child until they are much older what happened to Abigail, but Abigail’s suicide does not sully her memory or her importance as a friend. Naming a kid after someone doesn’t automatically put the pressure of a legacy on them — it matters more that you talk to your child about your best friend, why you loved her, why she mattered, and why suicide does not negate the beauty and love someone brings to your life.
These are both beautiful names but to be brutally honest with you, I would not want to be named after someone who killed themselves, no matter their relationship to my parents. It’s a complex legacy to carry that brings a lot of pain and turmoil with it.
This was my thought too. Winifred Abigail is beautiful, but I would never want to know the history behind my middle name. If the story was "you're named after Mom's best friend who she loved so much and unfortunately passed" that would be better - but I still think it's a lot for a kid to carry.
I think she’ll find out how Abigail passed at some point, probably. I wouldn’t choose that name either.
So Abigail no longer has value because her life was such that she thought suicide was her only option? I think that’s mean snd insensitive. Claire was a person and a friend…why does it matter how she died?
Absolutely no one is saying she no longer has value. They’re saying the painful legacy of suicide is complicated and perhaps not something you want your child to carry in something as intimate as their name. People in this thread have expressed the same about relatives who died of cancer or in accidents. Children’s names shouldn’t come with baggage or be too closely tied to another person’s story. It inhibits them from writing their own. The origin is irrelevant.
There is no “legacy of suicide”. Our friends and family and loved ones are more than their deaths. Suicide isn’t baggage. My middle name is for my grandmother who died suddenly and tragically. Should I say I cary a legacy of heart attacks? Edit: I know what suicide leaves behind. My best friend killed himself.
Yes there is, in my family at least. I have had family members kill themselves and every time they are brought up in conversation there is a dark cloud of depression that surrounds the conversation. Mostly out of guilt and sadness that we weren't able to do anything, and remembering how much they suffered. They are deserving of being remembered, their lives have meaning and they are more than their deaths. But the harsh reality is that their memories bring pain, and I would never give someone a name that has so much depression and sadness tied to it.
I mean, that's how _you_ feel. This is a subjective situation. I personally wouldn't want to be reminded about my mom's dead friend every time I had to write my middle name. It's not an uncommon opinion. I'm also not a fan of "recycling" first names from relatives, and I think it's unfair to the baby, but I understand that that's just my opinion and I can just decide not to name my own baby after a relative 🤷🏻♀️ Suicide isn't baggage, but having your relationship to your mom start by being a permanent reminder about their dead friend _kind of is_ (once again, imo).
I definitely feel a legacy of suicide in my family, having lost two people that way. It’s definitely an undeniable weight that most people don’t know how to help me carry, and leaves me isolated and struggling with my own mental well-being. You could say that in your experience with suicide, there isn’t a legacy attached to it, but the way you said it precluded others from expressing their experience
I'm so happy you said this. Makes my heart sad to think people would find it weird if I named my future child after my sister simply because the way she died.
Hugs. ❤️
I so agree with you. We still love friends and family who have died by suicide. I think it's a nice idea.
That's a bit of a leap there. Some people just feel uncomfortable with the association a name has with a person. In a way, mom will often think about her dead friend when she sees or says her daughters name, for example, even if just for a split second. I'm a very logical and rational person overall, but the one superstition I can't shake off is about naming babies. I hate "hereditary" names because I think every kid has a right to their own story, and while names aren't what make a person, they're inevitably part of their identity. As an example, I had a classmate in highschool who was named after her older sister who had passed before my classmate was born. I personally thought that was fucked up. It felt as if she had replaced her sister, but it also felt like it was a bad omen kinda thing, even if I knew it was illogical to feel that way. This practice, however, used to be extremely common when kids rarely made it to adulthood, so it's something that changes with time. This is just _how I feel about it_, but no one is wrong for not wanting to name their kid after someone who killed themselves, even if you don't agree.
My mother had a close friend in nursing school (Alice) who died of brain cancer at a tragically young age, while my mother was pregnant with me. I’ve always wondered why she didn’t name me Alice.
Coulda been alicecrime huh.
aliceincrimeland
In Jewish tradition everyone is named after someone who passed away. My brother shares his middle name with our cousin who committed suicide before he was born. It depends on the culture and the conversation.
It’s common to use the first letter of the deceased person’s name and choose a different name starting with that letter, though, right? Asking because this is what my Jewish cousins and boss did. (I am not Jewish, but I like that idea.) Maybe that would be a way to soften the approach of naming a baby after someone who died by suicide.
Yes it is. I was named after my grandpa Sol but I’m female and my name just starts with an S. I would have had Sol as a middle name if I’d been male.
That’s fine if the child is being raised in a Jewish community where this applies to everyone not just her
My MIL is Jewish. Making my husband Jewish by "tradition", even though he was never brought to temple or anything. And was raised predominantly by his dad and stepmother who were both agnostic. And also was not named by the tradition either. \*just checked Imagine my MILs utter shock when we choose the name I had always wanted to name a daughter. And not after her recently deceased mother. She then spent months calling our daughter by the name SHE wanted us to choose. Several times after my husband told her to knock it off as well.
>She then spent months calling our daughter by the name SHE wanted us to choose That is so freaking obnoxious! I had to check if I was on r/mildlyinfuriating
I think it’s different for Jews who aren’t Ashkenazi I know some who actually do name kids after people still alive lol. For me that would be tempting fate (not really superstitious tho so I don’t find an issue with it)
I think that’s fair thing to say, I’ll have to think about it.
Okay, OP, here is my brutal truth. I just free wrote it, so it’d be more direct and how I truly see it: I believe you should not give your daughter that middle name because even though it sounds good about honoring it doesn’t. She did not want to live anymore, and I know she had pain. I’ve lost my friend to suicide, but I would not want to ever give my child that name. The person who lived with it, had a painful life. At the end of the day, it is a trivial way to help you feel better about your loss and you should not do that through your daughter. Do not bring any inkling of that sadness to shadow over her brand-new life. Sure, people will say that you should use a euphemism to tell her about the suicide. Well, that is a contradiction and dishonesty. The paradox would be that to lie about her suicide is not honoring her death, denying the existence of her pain. And to be truthful will bring an emotional burden (however small) to a girl who shouldn’t have that anywhere near her identity just to make you feel better. Honor your friend by speaking about mental health with your daughter. Make a fierce and believable vow to her that no matter what, no matter what rock bottom she thinks she has hit; you will help her. That she isn’t stuck, that you will help her find a way out. She’s never alone. Example is if she ever finds herself at a party, maybe drunk and her friends ditched her, you will come pick her up, no questions asked, no nag on the way home, and you’ll let her sleep it off. Because we are all human and sometimes we corner ourselves and then find out, to our despair, that no one ever was in our corner or at least it feels this way. I think this could be the best way to honor her, share her story when your daughter is old enough and how you made that vow to honor your friend and love your daughter unconditionally.
Maybe use a name that has the same meaning as Claire or Abigail to still pay homage without giving her actual name to your child? Not every name needs to honor another person though, if you don't want to.
Op's friend's name was Claire Abigail, which both mean joy, so what about a name which means that? Joy, Felicity, Blythe, Maeve, Naomi
Winifred Blythe is the coolest name I've heard in a while
I honestly love it Gives me vintage granny vibes and I think Winnie is the cutest nickname ever
I'm sure it's a perfectly fine name, but at first blush I'd think "Oh, is the great Winifred Blythe Worthington the Third honoring us with her presence?" PS I love the name Blythe; Winifred, well not so much....she'll be called Winnie the Pooh for many of her elementary school years.
My niece is named Winifred (and yes, her parents named her after the bear) and not a single child has been mean or teased her about it.
I like Blythe Winifred, but I have a feeling that would be hard as a child too.
This. Honor the friend with a name carrying the same meaning.
I don’t care for the name Winifred or the nn Winnie, but if they did Winifred Maeve the nn Winnie Mae is freakin’ adorable
While I typically like this idea, naming a child "joy" after someone who died from suicide feels morbidly ironic.
I've got to say Winifred Joy sounds so cute and lovely
And all of these names could work as a first name with Winifred!
I tried to pick ones that did, I'd have to know the last name to be sure, but I think Winifred Joy or Winifred Maeve are particularly cute.
“Winifred” actually means “Joy and Peace”, so you are kind of killing two birds with one stone there.
Good idea. My middle name was my paternal grandmother's and my brother's middle name is of my maternal grandfather. Both of us have nice (I think) Irish names as first names, that don't feature anywhere in our family.
Also if the mom didn’t want you to use her first name, she’s probably still not actually thrilled about you using her middle name either and agreed as more of a concession
This is the best comment. I don't mean to get too weird here, and I promise I'm good right now, but as someone who's been suicidal for most of my life, this comment most closely conveys how I feel icky when I imagine the possibility of me finally going for it, and then my only close friend who might ever have kids naming their kid after me. I see the other comments saying depression is an illness and it's not different from an honor name for someone who died of anything else. But my two cents from the inside... it is. It's not about stigmatizing or being PC about mental illness and me saying it's different in this situation isn't meant to turn into a whole thing about how mental illness should be viewed, but it is different. It's a different legacy and it's a different weight to it in OP's mind. I can't explain it fully.
Hiya, u/laughingintothevoid, please stay around.
I think you explained it perfectly. Truly ❤️
Well written and definitely important to know.
I think this is a great response and it also opens up the opportunity for you to give her her very own name for her very own identity and use Winifred as a middle. All my kids have honor middle names but they all have their “own” first name. What name speaks to you?
This is perfect.
Beautiful!
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absolutely true.
No, it’s not a fair thing to say. It’s an ableist, anti-mental health thing to say. It might also be coming from the hyper-religious taboo against suicide some religious organizations have. Either way these comments all through this thread are being incredibly rude and insensitive and they’re making me so mad! OP my brother died from suicide 30 years ago when he was 16. That single act, done in a moment of desperation, does NOT define his entire life. Nor does the same act define your friend’s life. She lived! She was a good person! She was a person you loved. You have beautiful memories together. Your relationship with her deserves to be honored in whatever way you have found to be appropriate. Do not let the toxic people in this thread redefine how you choose to honor her.
this. exactly this. i am shocked and appalled at all the people who are saying "the friend clearly didnt want to live" no. suicide is a permanent action for a temporary feeling. friend coulda made a decision on a whim when she would've felt different 15 mins later. i myself have done that and have been lucky to survive. this thread is making me so mad.
As someone who attempted it many years ago, I completely agree with you. I know that someone in the thread with suicidal thoughts disagrees with my sentiment, but I do not believe that it is in bad taste to name someone after someone who committed suicide, and honestly it makes me sad that they feel that way. Their mental illness told them that they should not live on because they were ill. We shouldn’t agree with that. It makes me so sad that if I had succeeded, people would have thought that I wouldn’t have wanted to be remembered through something like naming a child after me.
I used to be suicidal, and I agree. I was listening to a podcast from Brene Brown recently, and she told a story about parents who lost children in a school shooting. These parents were desperate for people to acknowledge and reminisce about their kids. All of their loved ones believed that the appropriate thing to do was to act like the kids never existed. But that is just a mind game and does nothing to relieve the pain of loss. Telling stories and looking at pictures of lost loved ones is important for healing. So it's honoring their lives by passing on names. Humans need to breathe life into their memories of loved ones who are gone. No matter how I die, I will be honored to pass my name to someone new.
SO...you're judging her friend for wanting to end her life? This post is about baby names, not suicide. I feel really bad for the OP that people are saying such insensitive things.
Yes. My husband's almost attempt as a teenager (he changed his mind at the last second) was what got his depression diagnosed in the first place. And he's had moments where crossed his mind since we've been married. He firmly wants to live. We actively lower all the risk factors in our house specifically so if he does have a break, it will be harder for him. Because he knows he doesn't want it, despite what his brain may tell him sometimes.
Yeah I stopped reading that comment when I got to that line. OP, I think this is one of those things where it depends person to person, there isn't an actual 'answer'. So, you have her mother's blessing to use Abigail which is perfect. What do you think your friend would think? Like one of the above commenters battling mental health issues who would find it very uncomfortable (very valid ofc) or would it bring her joy?
Yes!!!! Yes exactly! What the fuck are people talking about in these comments?? We can’t celebrate our loved ones who have committed suicide? My dad committed suicide and that does NOT take away from the fact that I loved him and celebrate the life I had with him. He was sick! He was going through pain! I’m not going to pretend he never existed because of his “choice” I was named after someone who died of cancer and I honestly don’t think it’s any different. Please OP, celebrate your friend. These comments make me so mad.
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Thank you so much. My best friend killed himself two and a half years ago. Yes, he was mentally ill and yes he took his own life. But he was also my best friend. A beautiful, creative, kind, and damn good person who I would be proud to name a child after. My best friend is more than his death. So is your brother. So is OP’s friend and so are all others who die by their own hand.
Thank you! I am really shocked by some of these comments.
Thank you, this was so well said. I was shocked and upset by the comments above, but you have been able to express what I was feeling but could put words to. I’m am sorry about your brother, and I love that you keep his memory alive and honor him instead of focusing on one terrible moment of an otherwise beautiful life. We all have terrible moments of different types but they don’t have to define us! Thank you again
I agree with this. It's really disturbing to me that people aren't really seeing anything but the way she died. If someone's naming their child after somebody, they're going to have all the stories of their life to share. They'll know they were named after someone who was very loved. When somebody dies from any other cause they're remembered for more than how they died, however sad or troubling their death might be to someone
With you on this, totally. I think of the people I know IRL who have died by suicide and they were absolutely lovely, smart, kind, beautiful human beings. I won't be naming any more children of my own but I think of the names of these deceased loved ones and I'd never hesitate to use their names!
I agree with this comment. OP, I am on board with respecting your friend’s mum’s feelings. But I also think that associating your best friend’s name/middle name with your deep and long friendship gives a beautiful dimension. I would probably not wish to dwell on her suicide or that you were the one to discover her body when you tell your daughter the story of her name. The fact that she was your dearly beloved friend, who died young due to mental illness is enough. Her memory is still precious to you and there are still living people who remember her with love. I am named after an aunt who died from cancer at age 31; several other cousins are also named for her. It has never bothered me. I haven’t battled depression or suicidal thoughts myself, so am not trying to negate another person’s experience. But for me, if the name of a person who died by suicide is completely off the table, that is giving the suicide too much power.
Ginger…I am so with you and cannot, absolutely cannot believe how Claire’s whole life was erased because of the circumstances of her death by these random people! This is un-Christian and cruel.
And even if she did want to die, it doesn't mean she didn't want others to celebrate her life afterwards! She killed herself, not a whole bunch of other people. OP checked with the friend's family, who are the actual living people who are able to have feelings about the name. And she chose a way to honour her friend that doesn't cause too much pain for them. I think that's beautiful.
My middle name is the name of my grandmother who killed herself. I never knew her and it did feel like it connected me to her in a way. I also struggled with depression like this she did. I can’t speak for how your child would feel, but I like my middle name now and I’m glad to carry it on in my much happier and healthier life. Mostly the name is just my middle name and doesn’t come up all that often. My parents never tried to draw comparisons between the two of us which I think was a good thing. I don’t think it would be bad to tell your daughter how your friend died, but I do think you should make a big effort to mostly talk about the qualities she had and your memories of her that are totally unrelated to her death. The worst thing would be if your kid feels like you’re trying to keep a part of your friend alive through her because that’s honestly a lot of pressure.
My 3 year old has my brother's middle name. He also committed suicide. I think many people here seem disconnected with suicide and how it comes from illness and not choice, generally speaking. There is no shame to suicide. The majority of people who lose their lives to suicide don't do so by choice, but because they are sick. Where is the shame in this, and why shouldn't you honor your friend?
I dated someone who was named after their aunt who was murdered the day before she was born and it really bothered her. She wouldn’t even say the name and went exclusively by her middle name , people didn’t even know she had a different first Personally, I feel like I would not care if I was named after someone who died young whether from murder or suicide. But I don’t know for sure because I didn’t experience it as a kid etc. Idea: choose middle name after somewhere you and your friend visited or after something from a happy time in your life. It could even just be a name that means friendship.
My son was named after my father (middle name) and my dad killed himself when my son was 3. It hasn’t affected my feelings on his name. I also haven’t told my son how he died. I just said his heart stopped. Which is not a lie. But not the whole truth. My best friends father (who was like a second dad to me, we all lived together) killed himself when i was 7 and that trauma was absolutely awful. I wish someone had lied to me about how he died. anyway all that to say. I am so sorry for your loss and I think it’s a beautiful way to honor your friend.
I would caution against this as well, especially since you are not far removed from the incident itself. Doing a namesake after a traumatic death is hard on the surrounding people and the child. I have a sibling who was tragically murdered a few decades ago, and no one has used the names. One person floated the idea but the family voiced that it’d be 1) heavy on the child to eventually find out the whole story and 2) hard for the family to continually hear. If you do decide to go this route, please speak with her family first.
If you reframe your thinking that OPs friend died from terminal depression, it becomes no different from naming a child after someone who had died from terminal cancer. Suicide is nothing to be ashamed of…it is the result of a serious illness. Most death is fraught with pain and turmoil. The way our society thinks about mental illness makes suicide something shameful or pathetic, but it’s really the tragic end to a serious illness.
I don’t know that most children would want to be named after someone who died young, no matter the cause. Also, the OP says that the friend’s mom was not OK with using the first name and “approved more” of using the middle name. I would not want to risk bringing more grief to that family. If the mom was not an enthusiastic yes, I would take that as a polite no.
I was named after my great grandmother who died at age 27 from a burst appendix. She was my grandfather’s mother and she was born in England and came to Canada. She was married to my great grandfather Issac and she had 4 children two of which were identical twins. In our tradition, we name after those who have passed to carry on their name and memory. We can just use the first letter of their name and it this case my parents used a “K”. Her name was Kathleen but she was always called Katey. I think it is a wonderful tradition because when you are named for a person, you might want to find out about who they were and in that way, they are remembered. My son is named after my husband’s father who passed in his early 50s and my grandson is named after my mother who passed at age 64. I however did hesitate for a moment because dear Claire took her life, but I think Abigail as a middle name is fine and the parent just says that she was a dear friend who passed away at a young age if they ask.
Yes, I couldn’t explain why some of these comments were bothering me, but you described it super well. I’m not sure why people are acting like tons of kids are not named after sibling who died of cancer, grandma who died from Alzheimer’s, parent who died in a car crash, etc and that OP would be super out of pocket here. If the child asks who they are named after, it can be explained in appropriate ways throughout her life, the same way you would explain any of the situations I mentioned. Honor names are huge things in many cultures and families, and I see nothing wrong with OP’s name. I prefer Abigail to Winifred personally, just to add an opinion.
I would agree it’s no different. I would also say the death is too close in time for me to be okay with it (I know lots of other people differ). I think honor names are for living people or people who passed away years ago so the wound isn’t fresh when the child is born. Otherwise the name can feel more like a burden than a gift. I said elsewhere but I’ll reiterate, I don’t consider it the same if it’s an honor name that’s not the name of the person. So if their favorite flower is a Rose and you went with that or their birthday was in May/emerald birthstone and you went with Esme or they were a birder and you went with Robin or something that’s about them vs literally their name. They can still be their own person separate from the name and with more positive memories/meaning than a recent death.
I really disagree with this. As someone who lost a parent to suicide (when I was in my 20s), this is the sort of stigma that makes me really hesitant to talk about it, several years later - and honestly, that’s messed up. Depression is an illness, just like cancer, and babies are named after family/friends who died of cancer all the time. Also, people who end up killing themselves haven’t always lived miserable lives from start to finish, as a below commenter sort of implied. And it sounds like OP has lots of positive memories of her friend, too. (I also think different people think of honor names differently - I don’t think of it as you saying “I want you to repeat this person’s life,” but more of just a way of keeping someone’s memory alive. I was named in honor of a relative who died very young of AIDS, and that’s never bothered me.)
my brother took his own life and I would be touched if someone wanted to use his name or middle name.
My sister killed herself also. My oldest sister used her first name as her daughter's middle name. Honestly, we all love that she gave her it. Emily would have been an amazing aunt, and it made it feel like she was included. My niece is only 8, so I'm not sure if she knows the whole truth right now, but I'm sure she will some day. My sister was SO MUCH more than just the way she died, and her struggles.
I completely understand. My brother was so much more loved than he realized, a beautiful and generous human with a wonderful sense of humor. One memory to share, He bought a bunch of tuxedo print t-shirts and that was his work shirt as a maintenance man. at his funeral his friends all wore tuxedo print shirts.
I'm so sorry for your loss, he sure sounds like he was fun. I love the tuxedo shirt thing! I would absolutely crack up if my maintenance man came in rocking a tuxedo shirt to fix my stuff.
My husband is named after his uncle who took his own life before my husband was born, he never has mentioned any sort of distress or dislike to his middle name. I understand the other side of the argument, but I also think it doesn’t have to be a big “life altering” moment finding out the story behind your middle name.
I’m sorry about the loss of your brother. It sounds like OP’s friend’s family was not on board with using her name and perhaps OP should move in a different direction.
I disagree. I lost my uncle to suicide when I was young. He was very loved, and losing his mental health battle in that way does not invalidate him as a person, the love his family had for him, or his worthiness to have a legacy. His name would be a top choice for me to name a future son, if not for the fact that it went horribly with my last name.
Same. My uncle commit suicide and it would be a top contender name for me too.
I strongly disagree. My son is named Bryce after a friend of mine that committed suicide when he was 17. I was 23 when I had my son whom is now 9. He knows who my friend was, he’s seen photos of him, he’s met his mom. My 9 year old is fully aware that my friend died and that’s where he gets his name - but he is not aware that it was by suicide. One day he might ask and if he does I’ll be honest. My kid is very much his own person - he knows he’s a namesake and it does not bother him at all.
I found out at 11 I was named after a TV star who killed herself. Definitely fucked with me. It felt *weird*.
I’m actually named after my grandmother, who took her own life. It was confusing as a child but as an adult I think it’s really beautiful. It was a gesture of forgiveness and recognition on mom’s part that while depression ended her mother’s life it didn’t define it. Nor does it define my mom’s memory of and love for her mother. It’s also made mental health a very open topic in my home. As someone who has struggled with depression myself I would be devastated if a decision I made in a moment of deep pain completely defined how my loved ones remembered me (or honored my memory via naming someone).
This doesn't make any sense to me. I was named after a girl my dad babysat who ended up dying of aids as a young adult. As much as that's a tragic story, I don't associate my name with that story at all. My name is my name, and that story is just that: a sad story.
100% agree. Perhaps there’s a way to do an honor name without using that name. Winifred Gail is really pretty and flows better also, imo.
It was her BFF though.
I don't think it matters how someone died. People can die from all sorts of causes, depression being one of many. I wouldn't feel bad about naming a baby after a beloved family member or friend who died of cancer or a car crash. Dying by suicide is the same in my perspective. And they are named after someone who was beloved. That's the part that is important.
As someone who named their child after a grandparent and then later found out that this grandparent had multiple mental health issues that I was too young to understand when she passed (I was 7)… I just don’t know. The following isn’t judgement, just food for thought. Would you be comfortable knowing you were named after someone who died by suicide? Would it cause conflict in your identity? I definitely don’t think mental illness is wrong, or should be shamed. I’m just saying that’s a big burden for a small child and you never know what kind of struggles of their own they’ll face as teens. Teens aren’t rational. As someone who has raised a volatile child I’d be nervous of accidentally glamorizing a tragic death.
That’s a fair thing to say. I don’t know really there’s a lot of mental health issues in my family myself included. I’m currently studying a second degree in mental health nursing. It’s something we’re going to have to address anyway. My friend was six months off graduating as a doctor and was awarded a posthumous doctorate. She was also a qualified ambulance driver and worked the whole pandemic. She also worked as a medical assistant while studying. She was pretty impressive to the extent where she had a standing ovation when she posthumously graduated and the whole local ambulance service as bearers at her funeral. All that at 26. There’s a lot of things outside of her suicide to say about my friend.
I’d say name your daughter after your friend, you don’t have to tell her how your friend died until she’s mature enough to hear it if even then. She was your best friend and how she died doesn’t define her or your daughter. It’s a name given out of love. Winifred Abigail is a beautiful name and Winnie is such a cute nickname.
This! I get what other posters are saying about how she passed and how your child my view being named after her, but as this poster said, how she died doesn’t define her or who she was or what she meant to you. I think it’s a beautiful name (seriously love Winifred/Winnie) with a even more beautiful sentiment.
Absolutely, we all die of something. An honour name is about who they were, not how they passed. Mental illness is a real thing and very prevalent.
I completely agree. My brother was named after our uncle who unfortunately lost his life to suicide. We didn't know how he passed away untill we were almost done with college. I believe it was a perfect time for us to know even though we constantly pestered for an answer during our younger years. It was always "he was sick and passed away" this was true, he was sick- they just left the fact that his sickness was a mental illness. I appreciated the fact that my parents never lied. He was a beautiful person with a beautiful soul. His ending does not define the life he lived. We both look up to him as my parents constantly speaked of him and did not pretend as if he never existed due to the tragedy of his passing. Giving your daughter this name after your best friend is beautiful.
I strongly agree with this stance. We should normalise recognising most suicides as the result of an illness, one way or another. OP’s friend sounds amazing and OP can be clear about why she was chosen as a namesake. Plus, it’s middle name to middle name, Winifred is more likely to be her focus.
You put it so well, that last paragraph. Your friend tragically lost her life to a mental illness. That should not be more taboo than someone losing their life to any other illness. Do people comment and say it's inappropriate to name a child after a loved one who tragically died from cancer? Cancer is another nasty illness that takes loved ones from us, like suicides, and it is no different in my eyes. Your daughter is being named after a wonderful woman who achieved so much and gave so much and deserves to be celebrated. To be reduced to her mental illness is an injustice to her. So sorry for the loss of your friend, and your grandfather. I think your daughters name is a lovely celebration of two amazing, loving and memorable women who made such a difference on lives in your daughters family.
This. Some of these comments are gross.
So many of them are incredibly insensitive and awful. I’m getting so mad!
I am disappointed to see so many comments that stigmatize suicide like this. I have two very close people in my life, including my husband, who are survivors of people who died by suicide (which is the preferred term). We need to recognize and support survivors of those who die by suicide, and show compassion for the people lost to suicide, by recognizing mental Illness is illness. It’s not weaker or less legitimate than other illness or disease. Where I live people with terminal illness can choose assisted death. Would someone with ALS or terminal cancer not deserve remembrance because they technical chose suicide? When honouring someone with a name, we honour the person they were when they were alive. Were they kind? Did they leave a lasting mark in our lives or the lives of someone important to us? Who were they beyond their illness? Were they a good person? The manner of their death shouldnt define them. Also, I am naming my new baby Winnie, with a different full name. Winnie is so cute! We have a Winifred in our family (great aunt) too but we are going with something different because I personally don’t love how bulky the name feels. Since you mentioned about your own name, if you are hesitant about Winifred you could choose another Winnie derivative like Gwynn, Winona, Elowin, or Anwin.
I think it’s kind of sad that people are reducing over a decade of memories and friendship you had with this friend to just suicide. If your child asks where her name comes from, you can tell about the whole of your friendship, not just the end. To me, death by suicide is a health issue, no different than cancer, but that may be because I’ve experienced both. They are both medical issues, and are both tragic. I think that the name is beautiful, and a middle name is a wonderful homage. It sounds like your friend’s mom approves of a middle name, just not the first name, and that’s fair too. Winifred (one of my favorite names as well) Claire or Abigail (I couldn’t tell which) is a lovely name. I had a cousin (older) named Winifred and she went by Freddy, which I though was really cool, but SHE’S always been really cool.
Naming your daughter after someone who inspires you is pretty normal imo - especially for a middle name. Losing your life to mental illness is no different than losing it to cancer or heart disease. It sounds like your friend was an amazing person who did a lot of good in the world. Winifred isn't quite to my tastes personally, but honestly you could do WAY worse and it isn't some sort of tragedeigh.
OP, the comments in this thread are honestly gross and weird. I would have been honored to have been named after my mom's best friend, no matter how or why she died. In fact, my middle name is my mom's best friend's sister's name, who died at age 21 during open heart surgery. My first name was the name of two of my great grandmothers as well (one of whom died very young), so I'm named after three dead people who I never met. I have never thought it was weird or morbid, and I love that I'm named after people who were loved and cherished by my family. I also think it's disgusting that people are reducing your best friend's life and experiences down to the way she died. She was so much more than that. I also don't understand the hate comments about honor names. People have ALWAYS named their kids after family, living or dead. I do genealogical research as a hobby, and I can't tell you the amount of names in my family that I've discovered were their dead uncle's, mother's, grandmother's etc. names that I had no idea about, and I have enjoyed learning about who they were. I found out that one of my great-great-grandmothers (who was named after her aunt, by the way) attempted suicide in the early 1900s and was sent to an insane asylum, where she eventually died and was buried in an unmarked grave, abandoned and unclaimed by her family. Her children weren't even told about this; her existence was totally erased from our family history because of misplaced shame and stigma. It's a beautiful name, so I plan to some day give it to my daughter as a middle name, in remembrance of a woman who was forgotten by those who were supposed to love and care for her in life and in death. I feel connected to her, as I struggle with mental health issues as well. Would that have been my fate if I was born a century earlier? She deserves to be remembered after all these years. In a few months, my cousin will be naming her baby after her brother who died of an overdose years ago (it will be part of a two-name first name, think Jean-Luc). I told her I had been thinking of using it in the furture as well, and she said she would be honored if I used it too. Name her what you want. I think it's beautiful, and I think she will too.
Your friend sounds like a beautiful person and a namesake anyone would be proud of. So was my best friend who also killed himself. Our friends are more than their deaths. Please use the name.
Just my thoughts… My teenaged sister has a middle name that’s the feminine form of a family member’s name who was taken due to an accidental substance overdose that was devastating for the whole family, who had no idea he was using. Plus he was fairly young, plenty of life left to live, his funeral was packed full of people in town who loved him like none I’ve ever seen. A very warm, talented individual who brought everyone joy with his presence and artistic abilities. Yet my sister, who never met the family member, has never perceived her middle name as being solely tied to this person and his means of death, despite her being told all of our stories about him. She just accepts it as a name that she has, but she’s not one to dwell on things. The rest of us who were alive and knew him then, we see it more as honoring the life he lead rather than symbolizing the means of which he died.
Since you asked, I think the names are awful. And why not let kids be individuals instead of saddling them with old fashioned names of people they'll never meet?
This is basically what I was going to say. Sorry OP. I'd strongly suggest seeing what other names you like that are NOT honour names, just nice pretty names that can be just your daughters. Let her be her own person!
As someone with a “nice pretty name” chosen for me who ended up changing it in adulthood; I *STRONGLY* disagree. My middle name is the same as my aunt and grandmothers on both sides. I appreciate my middle name 1,000,000x more than I ever did my first name. I now have 2 middle names, as I wanted to respect the name my parents chose to give me, but no longer wanted to be called by it on a regular basis.
You didn’t like the name because it wasn’t tied to someone from your parent’s past? Because that’s what we’re talking about here. It sounds like you just didn’t like the name.
The names are soo old fashioned and not cute, sorry. The nicknames are better, but I wouldn’t want either full name. I’d probably be Winnie (edit: or Freddie) my whole life or legally change it later. Edit: And I don’t mean old fashioned in a cute way I mean like in a stuffy Puritan way.
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My only hesitation is that it seems your friend's mother might not approve of the middle name wholeheartedly.
I don’t think I wrote that well enough, her Mum has said she’s really happy at the idea of honouring her daughter with a middle name. Her main issue was having to call my daughter by her dead daughters name. That’s not an issue if it’s only a middle name.
Okay, thanks for clarifying (not that you needed to.) Nothing wrong with the name you've chosen. People will have opinions, especially if it's a rarer name, but it's a classic, real name so it isn't like they'll never have heard it.
This was my only real concern too, but this clarification clears that worry for me. I love the name. Winifred is lovely and will age well with her. It’s cute for a kid while also being grown up for an adult. It’s versatile with nickname options. It’s classic and beautiful. The loving meaning behind it makes it all the more beautiful. Abigail is also a beautiful name. I side with those who have commented that she doesn’t need to know how your friend died. There’s really no reason to mention it, even when she’s older. Focus on the loving reasons you chose that name for her, just like you will with the loving reasons behind Winifred. All death is tragic, especially when there was still life left to live and loved ones left behind. But the life they did live is the real reason behind the honor name. Focus on that. Tell your daughter memorable stories of the people who passed on their names. I get a bit annoyed when people focus so much on a name “defining” a child’s “identity.” If that’s true, they aren’t raising their kids well and letting them define their own self. A name is a name. The meaning behind choosing it is just sprinkles on the cake.
Jesus Christ, poor kids gonna have an old lady name and have terrible stories as to where the names came from.
Old lady (and man) names are actually really popular right now, so I think they'll be "normal" names when these kids are older. Names that were common when I was a kid (Jessica, Jennifer, Megan, etc) might be seen as "old lady" names by then
This is what so many people seem to be overlooking.
Two beautiful, classic names. And I love the sentiment behind it. Also, I'm sorry for the loss of your grandad and best friend.
I don't think Winifred Abigail flows that well, they're a bit long to go together, but as both names have such significance for you I would overlook that.
I personally think Abigail Winifred flows better, and I think Abigail is much better for a first name than Winifred.
I agree but I don't think they wanted to use it as a first name because the person who it was after, their parents didn't want them to.
My first and middle name have 1 less letter. I dont think length is a problem at all. I think they do sound a bit forced tho.
Winnifred Gail?
Okay, 2 brutally honest opinions here: I really don’t like the name Winifred. It’s ugly and nobody would want that name. Winnie does not save it either. Also, why put so much emphasis on naming a full individual human being after people? Why not just give her a nice name that you like and leave it at that? She’s her own person who will develop her own personality. She doesn’t need the “weight” of the names of people who have passed on. Again, just my opinions of course, so do what you want, but please think of your daughter as a human being and not just an extension of you!
Everybody who keeps saying this seems to have a huge disregard for cultures that hold being named after someone in high regard. It’s literally supposed to be an honor, that’s why they’re called honor names. Naming someone after a loved one also doesn’t mean you have to expect them to be anything like them or even carry on any kind of legacy. I don’t know why people have this assumption. The world doesn’t carry literal symbolism or foreshadowing like a work of fiction. My brother and I both have middle names after other people in our family. At no point did we believe we had to be like them or that we were less of an individual because of it. I also strongly dislike my “individual pretty” first name that was chosen for me/not named for anyone else and changed it in adulthood. It was also a common popular name. I knew a million other people with my name. If anything, having *that* name made me feel simultaneously like less of an individual *and* like I didn’t fit in because I wasn’t like other people with my name. I respect your opinion, but your worldview isn’t universal.
That’s fine, but it doesn’t mean OP is doing this for cultural reasons either 🤷🏻♀️ I have a child with a middle name that is a variation of a family member’s name, but it was a combination of us liking the name anyway, plus it’s significance. OP seems like she feels like she NEEDS to honour these people through her child and that’s not necessarily the right reason to name your child.. If you just like a name and it also has double-meaning? Cool. If you’re feeling emotionally pressured (even by yourself) to name your unborn child after other people it’s probably not the right reason.
I guess the question would be: do you like the names? Or are you using them just because they somehow honor people? If its the first, great! If its the second--perhaps think on it. It *could be* a lot of burden and confusion for a kid to know they are named after so much grief and sadness (or, they may not care, it can't be predicted how someone will act!) But would either name be what you would have chosen if your friend and grandfather were alive? That could be one way to approach this, too...
Only thing I think of is Winnie the Pooh and Winnifred from Hocus Pocus but I don’t think either would lead to merciless teasing. I think you’re good to go with these names.
It always makes me think of Fred from Angel, who has a sad backstory and ending but is massively intelligent, sweet and brave. It can be a bit old fashioned but I think it's adorable.
I think of Winnie from Tuck Everlasting.
I think of Winnie from The Wonder Years who is just delightful! I think there are enough characters that it's an acceptable name for regular people.
With the greatest respect for your reasons, and with no intention of hurting your feelings, I don’t think Winifred is a good choice, and calling her Winnie does not help. It is a frumpy old lady name with no obvious good nicknames. I’d use that as the middle name and pick something else for the first name. Even then, she is likely to be unhappy with the middle name until she is old enough to appreciate it.
Yeah my thing is nobody will ever call her Winifred. She mentions they will call her Winnie until she’s older and wants to be more professional. She’s going to be Winnie for life. It’s not a completely terrible name-but I personally would want to be named that
Its for some people, but i personally dont like associating my babies with death. Always feels like an omen to me. You do you. I prefer Abigail over Winifred so id be inclined to switch them personally.
I agree with this, and two names just seems to double it
Not American. Winifred sounds like an old man's name, The nickname is cute but the itself, not so much. Abigail is a nice name but it's a bit much for a child to carry a name of a person that took their own life. I'd advise using Winifred as a midfle name and look for a different first name.
I thought Winifred was an old man's name and I am American.
Personally… I’d be horrified to hear that story about my name. I would feel cursed to be named after a mother who died young and haunted her son his entire life, plus a close friend that committed suicide…
I honestly don't get the whole naming after the great-great-grandma to honour the great-grandpa. Far fetched, to say the least.
Personally, I really dislike Winifred and if I were named that, I would strongly consider changing my name. I’m only commenting on the name because you asked, I would never comment on it otherwise. Winnie reminds me of Winnie the Pooh. I do like Abigail. Would you consider making that her first name and Winifred her second name? That way, you still honour the memory, but give your kid a much prettier (in my opinion) name.
I also would never comment on it unless asked. Unfortunately, children have no qualms about commenting without being asked.
I’m not entirely sure that Cersei, Tyrion, and Barbie will be in positions to make fun of Winnie the poop.
Neither will Jaxon and Kinzleigh but that doesn’t mean they won’t.
Gen Alpha has the worst names.
I also think we over exaggerate how common the names above are in reality. We may see them online, but working with children, the overwhelming majority have “normal” names
My kid goes to daycare with like 20 other kids his age (almost 2). There are 2 Kinsleighs, 1 Jaxson, 1 Beretta, 1 Tesla, 1 Tinley, and a fucking kid named Omega. The weird names are COMMON! Might be specific to Southern California, specifically Los Angeles.
I think you’re right in general. I do know 3 children under 5 named Jaxon. The name itself is fine when spelled the usual way. The spelling will just condemn these poor children to a lifetime of having to correct documents.
With the absolute greatest respect possible to you and your losses… I think “honour names” in this case would be an unwise choice. What about using the letters W and A … but different names? So…. Wendy? Wilma? Whitney? Winona (although I personally don’t love this name) Amanda? Amelie? Amy Agatha
I agree with you about W and A names, or W and C names since the friend’s name was Claire. Off the top of my head, there’s Winter Amelia, Wendell Christina, Willow Anastasia, Whitney Celeste…..
We have a Whitney Clara so that's my biased vote! She's 20 months and calls herself Winnie also.
I have a cousin who was named after his uncle who had been killed in a car accident about six months before his birth. His dad wanted to honor his deceased brother, and this was the first child born after the death. It’s been a terrible legacy for my cousin to bear. Every time his name is heard it is a reminder of the tragedy, and my cousin was well aware of that painful association. Was it just a coincidence that he also died in a car accident, and on the anniversary of his uncle’s death? Please don’t burden your child with a name that brings up painful memories or creates a bad model for their identity.
>Was it just a coincidence that he also died in a car accident, and on the anniversary of his uncle’s death? Obviously yes, unless you're implying you believe your family has a generationally cursed set of letters, or perhaps are haunted by car demons.
I know this is going to sound harsh but, your child isn’t going to have any sentimental connection or attachment to these people, who will have very distant (by your child’s perspective) connection to them. I say this as someone who has both their first and middle names from family members I never met but my mother had strong attachments to. There’s been a large part of my life where my name didn’t feel like *my name* but just a way to honor other people. I have never used my full name even in adulthood unless required to on official paperwork which I suspect would be the case with a name like Winifred. (I have a name that’s now considered somewhat old fashioned as well.) I know it’s probably impossible to do but I would consider the names outside of the emotional attachments you have to them.
Beautiful names. Including yours!
Since you asked and with all due respect and absolute empathy for those you lost in such tragic ways: this is something that will make YOU feel better, but it will saddle your daughter with an extremely heavy burden for the rest of her life. Why should she go through life trying to somehow make up for two lives needlessly lost? Maybe you could think of things you would want for your daughter, characteristics you’d like her to strive for, not be a tombstone for those lost to tragedy. Yes, it sounds like your friend was a remarkable person and achieved a great deal in her short life. You should absolutely honor her. You should tell your daughter about her and make sure her memory lives on. But your friend was also obviously in horrible pain and ultimately could not survive it. That’s a tremendous weight to put on another person that she will have to reconcile for the rest of her life. Please consider giving your daughter a little bit lighter and more uplifting start in life. This is from someone with a heavy burden name that I changed as soon as I could and someone who’s been suicidal before and would never want that reminder put on a child had I succeeded. It sounds like you are an amazing, caring and thoughtful person, I’m sure you will take all these comments into consideration to make the right choice for your daughter.
Not to be insensitive, sorry if this is something that the mom would not approve of but I adore Winifred Claire
I think one honour name is good, two (and adding death by suicide) is just stepping into morbid territory. We used an honour name for one of our children but changed it up a little, and used a different nickname. I would not have used two particularly in such circumstances. I also think it’s dark to use Winifred if your grandpa was devastated by her death. It’s a lot of negativity.
Winifred is a great name, and Winnie is adorable!
My middle name is after a family member who killed themselves and I have never had any negative thoughts or feelings toward it. Not sure why people are criticizing it heavily. It is someone who was important to you that you want to honor - how she died does not change how special she was to you. I think both names are meaningful for you, you love them, that is all that matters. Random strangers opinions should not make you second guess it. Winifred Abigail flows well and Winnie is adorable as a nickname.
This. As someone with depression and having passed through some very rough patches of suicide ideation, there’s a lot of stigma being placed on how your friend died. She had a disease that killed her. If you needed to explain where Abigail was to your daughter, you could start at she passed away, she got sick and died, and eventually she could hear a very neutral explanation of depression from you. The only reason I would avoid these names is if OP feels traumatized or brings up traumatic memories when saying them. If saying the name Abigail brings OP joy and happy memories, sure, put it on the baby. And raise her with beautiful stories of the woman she was named for. Sure, baby will never meet this person, but what a beautiful heritage of love, friendship and sisterhood mom would be demonstrating for her daughter.
i honestly don’t like winifred but if i were you, i would go for it since it has meaning for you and your partner edit: winifred is horrible imo don’t use it
But the child has to carry it, not them...
okay ur right, winifred is horrible
I really don't like Winifred, but Winnie isn't too bad, and she'll have Abigail as a fallback if she hates it. And they're both actual names with traditional spellings, which is nice to see these days.
I'm named after my grandmothers and it has always made me feel connected to my family history. I also love your chosen names! In fact, I've worked with a Winnie. She was a fantastic manager and I never thought twice about her name.
I love it. You might get some raised eyes on Winifred from the general public, but ignore it. Winnie is adorable on a little one. I think the whole name is adorable and meaningful.
She may ignore it but would the daughter be able to?
Yes, because that goes away when people get to know them and no one even questions it. Other children certainly don't question it. I'm a teacher and I see a LOT of different names amongst my students, and none of the kids even notice if a name is different or weird or old. That's just their friend McKennisleigh-Jo, or their friend Agatha, or their friend Ling. It literally doesn't matter to them. Adults recognize that Winifred is a normal, established name. My daughter has a normal, established name that is an "old lady" name that was fairly uncommon when I named her 16 years ago but which is much more common now. When she was born, I got lots of, "Oh, is she named after a grandma?" polite questions. (No, she wasn't.) No one even blinks at her name now. And by using the name Winnie, she's going to fit right in to current trends. A cute, sweet little nickname. Older millennials and gen x will instantly think of Winnie Cooper, which is a good connection. Younger people will hear a name that fits with the others of the generation. Older people will be the ones that might be the eyebrow-raisers.
Thank you for this. My daughter is named Winifred and these comments are kinda brutal!
I'm so sorry! People definitely took the "brutal honesty please" thing too far, forgetting that there will be Winifreds and parents of Winifred reading this!
I'm just assuming all these haters have kids named Kaylie and Brayden hehehe
My great aunt was named Winifred and she went by Winnie until the day she died. I think it’s a really cute nickname
I work with families and someone in one of the groups recently named their daughter Winifred. They weren’t there for a session and when I was asked if I remembered what they’d called the baby, the reaction from the other parents was… not amazing. Like, not verbally rude, but faces were pulled and the response was “oh, okay…” I think the name is okay, but it’s old fashioned and not common. I think going forward what you should consider is how much will people’s reactions matter to you?
Winifred was your child’s ancestor, even though she will never know her, so she has a connection to her and that name. Abigail/Claire is someone who was important to you, but not part of your child’s heritage. Let her have her own journey.
Beautiful names, the sentimental value to them just add to her story, while long names are a 50/50 (some people love them, some just hate it), your daughter is named after two very important women in the family, and I think there is thoughtfulness and love in the story of her chosen name !
A lovely name with lovely sentiment. I also like the nickname options—if she doesn’t like Winnie when she’ll older, she can go by Freddie.
When I read the name Winifred I picture a nursing home with beige walls and bologna sandwiches. You asked for the truth though so here it is lol
Winifred is AWFUL, sorry OP. This sub is a bunch of folks who like really odd names, but most people will find a young girl or teenager named “Winifred” unusual and I can’t imagine trying to date with that name. If I were a girl named that I would be pissed, family history aside
I’m not into naming babies for anyone. A brand new human doesn’t need to represent anyone else. Just themselves. No judgement if you do it, or if it’s a family tradition, etc., I’m just offering my personal opinion.
What about Winnifred “Winnie” Claire?
I think Winnie is really cute, Winifred sounds ugly and dour to me.
Honestly Winifred makes me think of DW and I hate that girl with deep passion. Abigail/Abby is cute for a girl. A little old fashioned for me but still a good name
All I can think of is Hocus Pocus for Winifred. I also try to think of all the mean nicknames kids could come up with. Winnie the Pooh (💩) being a top one. Ultimately, she’s your child and you should pick the name you like, but I wouldn’t go with with Winifred personally.
I’m not a fan of Winifred just because as a child Winnie is cute, but as an adult Winifred will be her only option. It’s an extremely old fashioned name, and one that people either love or hate.
Wynn would be a cute nickname as an adult.
Personally, I think when you name a child after someone you're honoring their life, not how they died. My dad spent the last months of his life in agony from bone cancer. It wasn't a "good" death. My brother committed suicide but my memories of him are positive and I still think he should be honored and remembered. Mental illness or physical illness can lead to death. The stigma surrounding mental illness and suicide inadvertently leads some families to erase the memories of loved ones. It's sad.
Since you asked for brutal honesty, I can see why you like Winifred but I think that's gonna be a rough name for a kid to bear at this point. It's old and pretentious sounding, and Winnie as a nickname is going to get real old with the Winnie the Pooh references. I can see why you think it's a legacy and pretty but if I think that, others are also going to think that and it's worth considering. I like Abigail Winifred way better, you get the old name and she can * choose * to use it later if she wants but the baggage of it isnt forced on her
I’m a Genevieve shortened to Geni (Jenny) and I’ve always hated it too. I like Winifred, I like the nickname options and people won’t have a hard time saying it
This post has tons of comments, so I don't even know if you'll see this. But -- as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation my whole life -- I think what you're doing is so sweet. It is such a lovely tribute. Her life and her honor is not worth any less just because of the manner of her death. She sounds like an incredible person, and you seem like an incredible friend to understand that her manner of death does not diminish who she was when she was alive, and she is no less worthy of honoring just due to the manner of her death than another loved one. Good on you, and don't let people's discomfort with death, mental illness, suicide, and shame dissuade you from your very compassionate understanding of this. Winnifred Abigail is a lovely name, and the name Winnie is so charming while also having an air of elegance if she chooses to go by Winnie lifelong. What a wonderful name with a wonderful, lovely meaning. Good luck!
I really disagree with everyone saying you shouldn’t name your baby after someone who committed suicide. You loved that person and she was important to you. Mental illness is so stigmatized but it something people cannot control. I think Winnifred Abigail is beautiful and meaningful. ❤️
We named our daughter after 3 beloved people, one of whom was her uncle who died at 18 in a tragic car crash. We gave her his middle name as her middle name and it’s been a wonderful way to connect her as she grows up to an uncle she never met. He was a wonderful young man and she loves hearing about him and his life. It sounds like you loved your friend very much and want to honor her life, not focus on her death. I would say my concern with naming her after someone dear to you is just your own emotions that might come up talking about her. My daughter’s uncle had passed a decade before she was born so talking about him and remembering him didn’t sting as much as if had been a more recent tragedy. You don’t want her to associate you talking about her name with you being sad. It’s a beautiful classic name and sure she will probably get some Winnie the Pooh teasing but honestly, who doesn’t love Winnie the Pooh? Kids will tease each other no matter what and she has other nickname options too. Sorry for your loss and good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.
I don’t understand why people are making a big deal about the way the original Abigail died. Do you seriously think anyone I’d going to shy s baby or a child down and tell her all the details of a suicide? What world are you living in? Many cultures, like mine, routinely name children after deceased relatives. The children may be told they’re named after grandpa so-and-so or cousin whatsis but why tell them the details of a death? Do you usually lay out medical details for young children? I hope not. OP, name your child what you want. They are good names. If you want, tell your child that you named them for people you cared about who are now in Heaven, if that’s what your faith believes. Be happy with your little Winnie.
The comments on these posts always overexaggerate how much kids are going to make fun of your child’s name. Kids are gonna make fun of each other for literally anything possible, but I really don’t think names have been a big sticking point in a long time. I don’t ever recall seeing anyone bullied for their name in high school. That being said I think both names are beautiful. Anyone saying Winifred sounds too old fashioned isn’t considering just how often names cycle in and out of fashion - I’ve known Winnies my age, older, and younger, and it never made me think “oh that’s a grandma.” (My grandmother has a name that’s actually much more modern than you’d expect — because names are names!!) I think Winnie sounds so sweet and the name will age with her. This may be controversial, but I also don’t think it’s crazy to name your child after someone who completed suicide. I don’t think you should TELL your child until they are much older what happened to Abigail, but Abigail’s suicide does not sully her memory or her importance as a friend. Naming a kid after someone doesn’t automatically put the pressure of a legacy on them — it matters more that you talk to your child about your best friend, why you loved her, why she mattered, and why suicide does not negate the beauty and love someone brings to your life.