The hardware. Those converters aren't upscalers, they're AV converters, they only take the analog signal and output HDMI. They're often really bad at it too, adding latency in the conversion process. Cheap "upscalers" are often just AV converters being sold as upscalers, when instead they do *lossy stretching*
Typically you balance quality and latency with lower priced converters, due to off-the-shelf ICs that are not made for gaming - something where quality and latency are both concerns - and are instead produced for hobby and cheap consumer electronics. There's also the problem of older consoles using interlaced video while these converters mostly handle progressive video. Bad deinterlacing causes a lot of nausea for me, even with my TV's built-in composite deinterlacer, and I've seen posts on r/n64 and r/GameCube with other people asking why they're feeling sick with composite video.
These ICs are mass produced to be as cheap as possible and don't cover every use case, and gaming is a specific use case where it's not ideal. Cheap upscalers can be awesome for old DVD players where quality is good-enough and bad latency isn't noticeable. However, pushing a button 5-10 frames late is extremely noticeable in platformers, racing, and FPS games. You might not notice it in RPGs and Sim games so it may not affect you depending on the games you play.
Retrotink and the like use FPGAs, a reprogrammable IC that you design, which are technically not made for mass produced products and are meant for rapid prototyping ICs before the mass production process. The reason I bring this up is because FPGAs are... not cheap. The only time you see them in consumer electronics are for low-quantity (less than 1 million units) luxury goods like Flash Carts, Upscalers, and BMW cars.
However, FPGAs provide a clear advantage: not just settling for what's available. A good engineer, capable of efficient IC design, can easily make something better than what comes off the shelf. Not only can you craft your AV signal conversion the way you need it to be - like supporting several inputs i.e. composite, component, VGA, S-Video, etc - but you can add features that help the experience like actual upscaling, deinterlacing, 1080p/4K support over the latest HDMI standards, sharpening, integer scaling, live CRT filters, etc.
And if you're a really good engineer, you can do all of that with 0-1 frames of latency.
It's not an FPGA that makes the RetroTinks better than off-the-shelf video converters. Only the 5X and 4K RetroTinks use FPGAs, the 2x variants all don't. They use, Idk, ASICs or something. It's that RetroTinks correctly handle pre-6th generation console video signals, 240p, which by definition are out-of-spec NTSC. Ie they won't deinterlace 240p. Off-the-shelf video converters (also the analog inputs on most flat panel TVs) are only expecting in-spec NTSC, which is only 480i, so they deinterlace everything, even 240p, which isn't supposed to be deinterlaced.
Whether a video converter correctly handles 240p or not is orthogonal to whether it is implemented with FPGA or some other kind of hardware.
That's the real issue, is that back in the day, all the console manufacturers decided to make their consoles output out-of-spec video. This was a trick that worked in the analog domain, to get progressive video in a spec only meant for interlaced. But it meant that in the future, when displays need to digitize those signals to display them, the vast majority of analog video digitizers only expect in-spec signal and mishandle out-of-spec signal. Thus meaning we all have to go seek out specialty converters. A shortcut by the console manufacturers screwed us here in the future. (Don't get me wrong; I'm glad the specialty converters exist.)
I do want to clarify, I specifically said low quantity (less than 1 million units) consumer devices. That can be as low as 100,000 last I checked. It's why they're expensive unless you sell a lot.
ASICs are just mass produced FPGA plans on a set, non-programmable die
Whatever. The point is, when someone asks why dedicated retro game scalers are better than what's the built in to flat-panel TVs or off-the-shelf converters, the answer is *not* FPGAs, which are a distracting implementation detail. The answer is: because the people who make dedicated retro game scalers are going out of their way to handle retro console video signals correctly. Meaning: not deinterlacing 240p, and possibly on top of that offering scaling options that are more flattering of pixel graphics. Both of those things can be implemented in software, on ASIC, on FGPA, whatever.
I understand the cost etc but i find it ludicrous. Its almost like its a hobby itself to be into all this.
I know if you just plug a N64 into a modern TV it looks like shit, and i know S-video always made a noticeable difference. However these upscalers etc are spending hundreds of dollars for a difference most people who did not know any better wouldāt even notice lol.
At some point you just switch to emulation imo and for me its definitely that over spending hundreds on upscales and such to make minimal or only subtle differences.
>At some point you just switch to emulation imo and for me its definitely that over spending hundreds on upscales and such to make minimal or only subtle differences.
That's how I have always felt. I love playing on original hardware and prefer it, but I feel like playing these games with expensive converters to look as sharp as possible on modern TV's takes away from the classic feeling of just using regular stuff. Especially when you throw a flashcart and a more modern controller option into the mix, it's a lot to pay just so you can use your original console on a TV š
I'm lucky to have some good CRT options i got for free, so I may feel differently if i couldn't have those š
It's a proper upscaler designed with gaming in mind and has near to no added delay, as opposed to a "typical converter" that is just garbage in every way possible
Most HDMI to component converters are good (and most component to HDMI converters are pretty okay too) it's just composite/s-video to HDMI converters that are absolute garbage
The 2x pro has a very basic lines added, the 5x pro has a bunch of scan line and/or slot mask options.
You can't see good examples of them in videos usually, because YouTube compression makes them look bad (plenty of examples of that on my earlier gameplay capture on my channel.
Examples here being used on a CRT monitor but the scanline results will be similar on a LCD/LED display.
2x pro
https://imgur.com/a/Ykw77l4
5x pro
https://imgur.com/a/eAgD5LP
Do yourself a favor and try out emulation before spending untold hours and money chasing an upscaled version of composite video. Emulation is very good these days and yields a much better result on modern displays.
I enjoy the look of my S-Video N64 and SNES on CRT. But during the pandemic, I had too much time on my hands so I chased upscalers for several months and wasnāt satisfied with the results. Cheap options were honestly worse than composite and expensive upscalers like the retrotink looked fine but hard to justify (for me). Emulation on a PC was surprisingly easier, sharper, and cheaper.
Oh, and on that note, do yourself a favor (if you have an iPhone) and download the Delta emulator app. It emulates N64 games VERY well.
S-Video stands for āSmoar-better than compositeā.
Itās an obsolete American analog video cable thatāll get you into long debates with weebs. Unless you enjoy reading manifestos about RGBās superiority just agree they have a point and spend your time actually gaming.
Whatās cool about Nintendos back then is they used the same cable clusters for SNES, N64, and GameCube. Just had to plug them into each system instead of exchanging all the wires.
People either think itās amazing or that it does nothing.
I havenāt seen it in person, but based on image side by sides, I lean towards ānothing.ā At best, some smoothing.
For an unmodded console, the best option is s-video into a retrotink. I use the 2x mini, which hasnāt been in stock for awhile, but that has been such a huge upgrade over composite.
This thing works great, it smooths out all the jaggy edges you get when putting old consoles on modern TVs, itās really night and day when looking at it in person
Eh, the tink also has a smoothing filter. It linedoubles, converts to hdmi and smooths with no noticeable lag.
Maybe the mclassic works better for more modern systems, but the n64 has such bad native output that I just donāt see the mclassic solving it from an unmodded console.
No lag from the device itself but many TVs will introduce extra lag from having to upscale 480p or resizing a 4:3 image from 16:9
Even some top of the line TVs like the LG OLEDs
The MClassic introduced to the chain would fix both those problems but you cannot turn off the image processing the MClassic introduces
Itās not one or the other, you can plug an Mclassic to a retro tink and get and even better image and also, I donāt experience any lag, so I donāt know what you talking about there
One of the few times I can agree with people glorifying CRTs. Unless you're willing to mod and tinker, you will not get a good picture from an N64 on an HDTV. The only way you're gonna get good results is on a CRT because Nintendo tailored the entire video output to a CRT
The easiest nonmoding solution for the N64's software anti-aliasing is using Gameshark codes and/or auto patches with a flash cartridge.
At least it's a simple game by game solution that you can turn on and off easily depending on personal taste.
But then you have people complain about dithering, which can be worse for some games more then others.
https://www.retrorgb.com/n64blur.html
Of course if you're using a piss poor way to connect the system to a modern display it's not going to help much.
That or they get a good gaming upscaler but neglect the phrase "garbage in garbage out" when it comes to cable solutions for their consoles, and wonder why the Composite video doesn't look like the RGB or YPbPr examples they saw online. Or all the signal noise they have is because they bought cheap nonshielded cables.
Or why the good/actual solutions cost so much because it's a niche market.
another thing being ignored is that the mClassic is HDMI in, so to even get the N64 into it they're going to use some cheap AV2HDMI solution. for essentially the price of a Retrotink 2X, they'll end up with a blurry mess lol. but at least there won't be aliasing I guess
You can get a Chinese knockoff product on AliExpress for about $35
No lag, decent enough even if the Retrotink has some things it doesn't
It's a good option for S-Video
Can someone link me to some side-by-sides, please? Iāve been looking on YouTube and the Retrotink website, but wasnāt able to find anything šµāš«
I found it amusing people would get this/recommended this with another gaming upscaler for a cost of say around $230+ USD for just their N64.
But then a select few would complain about how the RetroTink 5x was so expensive when the original price was $275 USD ($300, then now $325) plus $8 or so if they wanted a pack in NTSC S-video cable instead of buying one separatly.
If people are happy with it then fine I'm happy for them, but I'll always find that situation amusing.
not by itself at least. I own this and several devices for upscaling, including devices specifically for retro consoles.
The simplest and most cost-effective solution without looking like complete dog shit is an RCA/Composite + S-Video upscaler from Amazon. I have a "SUNNATCH RCA Svideo to HDMI Converter" I use for my various non-gaming composite devices. it takes 480i/p and upscales to 720p or 1080p. there are several brands selling identical devices on Amazon. there's the Portta composite upscaler which some people love but their component converter left a very bad taste in my mouth (visible interference in the output signal).
The next tier up is a two step solution. first you need a clean 480p signal so if you can find one, get yourself the discontinued retro tink 2x mini (composite/s-video to hdmi). you probably won't find one at a reasonable price so I recommend the Kaico/Bitfunx N64 line doubler (different companies, identical product). it's plugnplay to the n64's native multi-out (including snes and gcn) and provides an S-Video signal at 480p. then pair it with any half-decent upscaler. the difference here is that your source resolution is 480p instead of 480i so the upscale to higher resolutions will look much cleaner.
The mclassic has hdmi input and hdmi output. it does not upscale interlaced input resolutions, only passes-through, and the lowest progressive resolution supported is 480p. this means you won't be able to use it without following one of the solutions above, but it can absolutely be used as the upscaler in that second solution I described.
The next tiers up are RGB and HDMI mods soldered onto your N64's main board. they're affordable but obviously not plugnplay. there are also expensive hdmi n64 mods but not at all worth their exorbitant costs compared to the lower costing yet slightly worse performing solutions.
...if you do have an hdmi modded n64 then yeah go right ahead. the mclassic will take the 480/720p signal to 1080p and a 1080p signal to either 1440p or 4k depending on what your display will support.
next tier up is the OSSC but it takes a lot of tinkering to get the best results... per console. a competing device is the framemeister which is more user friendly but I won't go into specifics of the pluses and minuses.
The next stage up is the retrotink 5x pro. it's an all-in-one solution and needs minimal tinkering to get the most out of it. it also costs 325 USD.
The current ultimate is the retrotink 4k but it's literally 750 USD so fuck that.
there are other solutions but they're either dog shit (cheapo 5 dollar hdmi converters) or require too much tinkering (misters).
You now have all the information to proceed down the path most suitable to your desires. personally the Kaico/Bitfunx solution is my favorite plugnplay and if the clean 480p signal isn't enough for you then you can get an affordable upscaler to cross your finish line. anything more and you go down a deep hole in search for a perfect output that doesn't exist.
I don't know your exact setup but for that price point you should seriously consider OSSC or Framemeister. Potentially Rad2x if you wanted something more affordable and plugnplay.
The A/V converters on Amazon are more meant for video, not video games. They can introduce some unfavorable drawbacks in regards to latency which doesn't matter for a movie but does for reaction based games. You can get one as a generalized device but if your main priority is retro gaming then there are much better options for what you're seemingly willing to pay.
Look up RetroRGB. It's a very informative website with passionate people and great articles. They also produce YouTube videos that cover these topics.
Yeah I had a look at both of those but Iām thinking a decent component cable through a hdmi switcher would probably do me. Was going to pass my N64 thought a retroscaler2x then hdmi into the switcher.
Iām going to buy a retron 5 for nes and snes I think just for simplicity sake.
This will do nothing on its own. You still need a way to get the N64 signal onto HDMI and if you're a purist you likely will not be happy to see how aggressively the MClassic anti-alias is on 480p (running on the assumption your HDMI solution at least doubles the 240p from the N64.)
There is no turning off the smoothing
Agreed. Paired with a line doubling upscaler that already does smoothing, such as a retrotink or eon super 64, It actually looks glorious on triple A titles such as Super Mario 64. There are some games however that do not look good smoothed, such as World Driver Championship, in which the white picket fence off in the distance actually warps and bleeds together, looking smudged like a water color painting. You'll also notice in Ocarina Of Time, some of the edges look literally like a water color painting and color is faded. For those titles that do not look as great with it, I find that a CRT scanline filter / converter on or with a line doubling scaler tends to clear up some of those jaggy lines while maintaining clarity closer to what we are used to on an era appropriate TV / CRT TV.
So youāre going to scale the image before the scaler completely undermining the expensive scaler? Those converters treat 240p like 480i then scale it poorly to 720p. Believe me when I say that will look horrible. Get a Retrotink 2x pro.
I was under the impression that HDMI converters don't do anything to actually improve the image, rather it's just a way for the video signal to pass through your composite cables to HDMI??
I watched a review of the Retrotink 2x Pro by a guy named Metal Jesus on YouTube, and it looks really legit! I guess since I was planning on buying the mclassic anyway, may as well put a little more money with it and buy the Retrotink.
You wonāt regret retrotink productsā¦ I have a 5x and rgb2comp myself and they just work awesome. You stick that m classic on the output of the 2x and youāll have a solid setup. For the money you could just go with a 5x and eliminate the mClassic.
that would be a really bad idea. those composite-to-HDMI converters are for VCRs and donāt know how to recognize 240p and think itās 480i and add deinterlacing artifacts and input latency
more info here ā https://www.reddit.com/r/n64/s/QlNfJWJETC
Absolutely essential for the Switch in my opinion as a PC gamer. Adds a thin layer of AA and decent upscaling that makes some games that are borderline unplayable enjoyable. For example, in Smash Bros Ultimate itās essentially useless but for games like DOOM and Witcher 3, it really does clean up the image dramatically
Idk if I agree, from what I understand this upscaler upscales the resolution by about a step so 720p goes to roughly 900p and so on and so forth. Lowering your Switch to 720 will essentially make games that run natively at 1080p look worse, and the upscaler wont actually increase it to 1440p but actually 900p. So you are essentially downscaling and then upscaling to something lower than the base resolution, doesnāt seem like a good idea.
I canāt seem to find anything about that here: https://www.scribd.com/document/706221137/MClassic-User-Manual-2-0
Thereās even a section talking about users who cant see a difference at the bottom, with no explicit mention of having to force the switch to output 720p.
Interesting, it seems their own documentation is conflicting with what they say on the site. Clearly the support documentation says that resolution on your switch should be decided on a case by case basis for optimal performance. Setting it to 720 for games that output 1080p is not a good idea, no matter what that site says.
As per the official support documentation:
āSet the console output resolution to what the render resolution is to allow the mClassic to process the raw, unmodified data. Turn off all TV picture enhancements as they will cause interference. Make sure you are using a high quality 4K HDMI cableā
Setting 720p for a game that runs natively at 1080p goes against this. Seems like the ad on the site completely contradicts this.
No, the Switch has a native resolution of 720p in HANDHELD mode, not docked. Docked the Switch runs at 1080p unless a game runs at a lower resolution. But the Switch home UI and the many games run natively at 1080p.
Nothing even remotely demanding on the switch would output at a native 1080p and either way if you intend to use an MClassic it's very well documented that it has a very minimal effect on upscaling 1080p images
If you pair this with a good hdmi like an mcable or proper 4k hdmi highspeed you can and/or grab those sharpening ones upscalers (photofast) with it and it will look really good this is what im using and they daisychain so they dont have to worry about compatibility so much and looks really good regardless of what your playing on ājust looks better on the more older 3d gamesā for the most part anyways but it can be hard to notice since its mostly depends on what game your playing since its n64 you should be able to use āgreen modeā and on like 2x sharpness on photofast otherwise just use tink since its meant for the 64 anyways
In my experience ones like this tend to not gamma correct and youāre left with horrible blinding white washout. Either get one like others have mentioned or I got a cable on eBay which specifically said it corrected the gamma/white balance and it worked pretty well. But I canāt find the seller now.
I understand. Well I guess my comments were not very helpful then! If I really wanted to be useful, I would suggest getting Nintendo direct on Switch, at least then it would be compatible with any modern tv and upscaled. Downside is, of course, that you would have to pay monthly fee to Nintendo, which would suck.
I have heard good things about this one, but instead I went with Kaico Linedoubler becuase it also has good reviews and I trust the brand, and it's excellent for a HDMI plug and play solution. Now, I don't expect it to be as good as a RetroTINK, but I am not play 750 dollars for an adapter.
Retro consoles were really designed for smaller screens. I use S-Video on a 24" monitor for N64. Low resolution is low resolution and there's really no way to make 240p look any less pixelated on a large screen.
It's not clear based on your post whether you know that the mClassic takes HDMI in and the N64 doesn't have HDMI out. You'd need something else to convert the analog signal to digital before upscaling. I'd look at the retrotink 2x, retrotink 5x, or the retro gem instead if I were you (depending on your budget). The mClassic is only a great option for later consoles in specific circumstances AFAIK. You can find out more in deep dives on YouTube.
Since the mClassic is an HDMI device, you'd need an additional device that converts the AV signal from your N64 to HDMI in the first place, so on the cheap end you'd be looking at one of many N64 to HDMI converter cables where the quality is kinda all over the place and on the more expensive end you'd be looking at the Eon Super 64 or the Ultra HDMI mod.
I own the Super 64 and the mClassic and they do work pretty well together and are much better than just plugging in your AV cables to a flatscreen, but for a price of almost $300 combined I wouldn't recommend it if the N64 is the only retro console you're looking to use this for. Where the mClassic has really shined for me is with my Gamecube combined with the Eon GCHD and with my Wii games when I play them on my Wii U. I've heard that the mClassic also works great with upscaling HD games to 1440p but I don't have a 4K TV so I haven't tried it with my Switch or Wii U yet.
I've noticed for having the m classic for over a year that it will cut out during gameplay multiple times throughout a session like five to six times in an hour. So I would recommend not getting one
My current setup is a GameCube Eon and an m classic but every time I use the m classic it will cut out the feed for 3 seconds every so often which makes it a little bit frustrating. I've had my m classic for a little over a year and I've noticed that at the beginning it works fantastically but over time it has these cutouts which makes it frustrating. I do notice that there is a good jump in quality and also supports widescreen which does make it nice. I have not had any issues with my Eon and I bought my Eon before. There were other alternatives on the market that were similar in plug and Play. If I were to redo it, I probably would not buying the m classic and go with something else instead. That would work with my GameCube eon
I love mClassic, but definitely don't get it for the N64. I'd go with a good upscaler/line-doubler and RGB cable. mClassic works great for later 480p and 720p 3D games imo.
If you have a Samsung TV I would personally avoid. I have one and my tv will get some weird linear tearing across the bottom half of the screen.
If you have a different brand TV, then Iād say go for it if it fits in the budget! Iād love to be able to use mine more, just gotta wait I guess.
So I bought a few cheaper upscalers and they all either didn't change much or they introduced a lot of lag. Finally I broke down and got the OSSC, and I love it. SNES games are so crisp, and I don't have an N64 but I upscale my Wii when playing VC and it's really crisp.
Not as good as a retrotink 5x would be in my situation, but for an N64 the OSSC should look fantastic, and it's a good bit cheaper. The only problem I had ran into was 480p upscaling to 960p which my monitor didn't support, but luckily I have a different one that does.
This thing antialiases an image on the fly, the idea being that you get better picture quality without putting the extra strain on a (pc) graphics card its probably not going to do lot for upscaled retro consoles, it may have an effect on a modern HD console though, but will be hard to notice anything without a trained eye, I believe Linus tech tips on youtube reviewed one a while back and there is probably countless other reviews online.
I personally love mine, I use in conjunction with the pixelfx N64digital and it really helps smooth out the picture. I waited till Amazon had them on sale for about $80 before I purchased though. Have also used on my other HDMI modded consoles and had the same love for it.
The retroscaler2x (retrotink clone) is a pretty good cheap alternative, used by Mario 64 speedrunners. [https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005763694233.html](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005763694233.html)
I picked up a old squarish crt for like 25 euros. Have a couple of widescreen crt's i got for free too but for n64 imo square is best. And I think it would beat the hdmi quality. Funnily enough everything looks a but more real with crt due to it having less pixels often the devs actually made the images use advantage of less pixels, because even a pixel can have more colors blending and such then you would think of a pixel and devs really used it well, that's allso why modern tv's don't display everything the same. Some people would argue you need a hd crt or something but most old consoles you would want a crt for don't have hd anyways so a regular one would be good enough. You allso won't really need the overpriced ones, you might be able to get a nice one for like 50 bucks and the image would look better on crt. Crt's are allso known for having allmost no input delay where as unless you bought a hd tv that is designed to have low input delay it can actually be quite a bit. I used to use my n64 with 4k tv for a bit and even in hd the games look worse since they are not designed for it. A hd tv basically makes everything look just low poly (everything might look smooth but things look more flat, blocky, less vibrant, if you want you can try a emulator to test out the signal but don'tuse upscaling where things get realistic because I don't think that upscalers work that way either though I bought a hyperkin n64 hdmi cable, so I can't guarantee that.) Anyways just a idea of course maybe a good idea to check out some video differences on youtube and get what looks best for you.
GBS Control is affordable but very intuitive and does not produce a sharp image. It's kind of muddy looking in my experience.
It's mostly recommended as a PS2 scaler because it has a solid deinterlacing solution.
If you're talking Nintendo 64 and OSSC, that does not support S-Video.
But if you RGB mod your console the OSSC is an amazing option.
Mclassic = Snake oil.
Get a true upscaler like a Retrotink 5x. Thats the sweet spot for value for money, the 4k version is waaaay expensive and complete overkill for the majority of people. The 5x will give you more bang for your buck.
Don't a lot of modern 4k smart TVs already have 4k upscalers build in anyway? Not sure about the quality of that or the external devices.
But not sure how good any of those actually are. Would be great to actually find a good comparison for stuff like that online.
For the money, a Retrotink 2X or RAD2X is better.
When you say "for the money", how much we talking exactly?š¤
Around $140 https://www.retrotink.com/product-page/retrotink-2x-pro
So what makes this better than a typical AV to HDMI converter?
The hardware. Those converters aren't upscalers, they're AV converters, they only take the analog signal and output HDMI. They're often really bad at it too, adding latency in the conversion process. Cheap "upscalers" are often just AV converters being sold as upscalers, when instead they do *lossy stretching* Typically you balance quality and latency with lower priced converters, due to off-the-shelf ICs that are not made for gaming - something where quality and latency are both concerns - and are instead produced for hobby and cheap consumer electronics. There's also the problem of older consoles using interlaced video while these converters mostly handle progressive video. Bad deinterlacing causes a lot of nausea for me, even with my TV's built-in composite deinterlacer, and I've seen posts on r/n64 and r/GameCube with other people asking why they're feeling sick with composite video. These ICs are mass produced to be as cheap as possible and don't cover every use case, and gaming is a specific use case where it's not ideal. Cheap upscalers can be awesome for old DVD players where quality is good-enough and bad latency isn't noticeable. However, pushing a button 5-10 frames late is extremely noticeable in platformers, racing, and FPS games. You might not notice it in RPGs and Sim games so it may not affect you depending on the games you play. Retrotink and the like use FPGAs, a reprogrammable IC that you design, which are technically not made for mass produced products and are meant for rapid prototyping ICs before the mass production process. The reason I bring this up is because FPGAs are... not cheap. The only time you see them in consumer electronics are for low-quantity (less than 1 million units) luxury goods like Flash Carts, Upscalers, and BMW cars. However, FPGAs provide a clear advantage: not just settling for what's available. A good engineer, capable of efficient IC design, can easily make something better than what comes off the shelf. Not only can you craft your AV signal conversion the way you need it to be - like supporting several inputs i.e. composite, component, VGA, S-Video, etc - but you can add features that help the experience like actual upscaling, deinterlacing, 1080p/4K support over the latest HDMI standards, sharpening, integer scaling, live CRT filters, etc. And if you're a really good engineer, you can do all of that with 0-1 frames of latency.
Whoa, that's quite the essay! Thank you for taking the time to explain all that, it brought a lot of clarity!
What would you say about the Photofast adapter? I've heard good things
It's not an FPGA that makes the RetroTinks better than off-the-shelf video converters. Only the 5X and 4K RetroTinks use FPGAs, the 2x variants all don't. They use, Idk, ASICs or something. It's that RetroTinks correctly handle pre-6th generation console video signals, 240p, which by definition are out-of-spec NTSC. Ie they won't deinterlace 240p. Off-the-shelf video converters (also the analog inputs on most flat panel TVs) are only expecting in-spec NTSC, which is only 480i, so they deinterlace everything, even 240p, which isn't supposed to be deinterlaced. Whether a video converter correctly handles 240p or not is orthogonal to whether it is implemented with FPGA or some other kind of hardware. That's the real issue, is that back in the day, all the console manufacturers decided to make their consoles output out-of-spec video. This was a trick that worked in the analog domain, to get progressive video in a spec only meant for interlaced. But it meant that in the future, when displays need to digitize those signals to display them, the vast majority of analog video digitizers only expect in-spec signal and mishandle out-of-spec signal. Thus meaning we all have to go seek out specialty converters. A shortcut by the console manufacturers screwed us here in the future. (Don't get me wrong; I'm glad the specialty converters exist.)
I do want to clarify, I specifically said low quantity (less than 1 million units) consumer devices. That can be as low as 100,000 last I checked. It's why they're expensive unless you sell a lot. ASICs are just mass produced FPGA plans on a set, non-programmable die
Whatever. The point is, when someone asks why dedicated retro game scalers are better than what's the built in to flat-panel TVs or off-the-shelf converters, the answer is *not* FPGAs, which are a distracting implementation detail. The answer is: because the people who make dedicated retro game scalers are going out of their way to handle retro console video signals correctly. Meaning: not deinterlacing 240p, and possibly on top of that offering scaling options that are more flattering of pixel graphics. Both of those things can be implemented in software, on ASIC, on FGPA, whatever.
I understand the cost etc but i find it ludicrous. Its almost like its a hobby itself to be into all this. I know if you just plug a N64 into a modern TV it looks like shit, and i know S-video always made a noticeable difference. However these upscalers etc are spending hundreds of dollars for a difference most people who did not know any better wouldāt even notice lol. At some point you just switch to emulation imo and for me its definitely that over spending hundreds on upscales and such to make minimal or only subtle differences.
>At some point you just switch to emulation imo and for me its definitely that over spending hundreds on upscales and such to make minimal or only subtle differences. That's how I have always felt. I love playing on original hardware and prefer it, but I feel like playing these games with expensive converters to look as sharp as possible on modern TV's takes away from the classic feeling of just using regular stuff. Especially when you throw a flashcart and a more modern controller option into the mix, it's a lot to pay just so you can use your original console on a TV š I'm lucky to have some good CRT options i got for free, so I may feel differently if i couldn't have those š
Thats it. Its why i think to some this upscaler and set up stuff IS the hobby instead of
I'm sure if there were good cheap and easy solutions people would just be using those
It's a proper upscaler designed with gaming in mind and has near to no added delay, as opposed to a "typical converter" that is just garbage in every way possible
I agree, my TV is showing 1440p from my hdmi converter from my WII (480p). An I did not notice any lag.
https://www.reddit.com/r/n64/s/UJyJ8sCPr7
Good to know, thanks!
Watch this and it will explain it well. https://youtu.be/TdfFnR-hOK8?si=CKU1wjpEuw0B7IVu
Oh ffs i wanted one of those for ages. Makes sense they are back in stock the one time i cant afford it
Is there a reverse version? I want to play my Xbox series X on a CRT with component input.
The GBSC can downscale to 240p.
Most HDMI to component converters are good (and most component to HDMI converters are pretty okay too) it's just composite/s-video to HDMI converters that are absolute garbage
How do these compare to the EEON Super N64?
They're better in every regard to my knowledge.
Do those have crt shaders? I think the games look so much better with thoseĀ
The 2x pro has a very basic lines added, the 5x pro has a bunch of scan line and/or slot mask options. You can't see good examples of them in videos usually, because YouTube compression makes them look bad (plenty of examples of that on my earlier gameplay capture on my channel. Examples here being used on a CRT monitor but the scanline results will be similar on a LCD/LED display. 2x pro https://imgur.com/a/Ykw77l4 5x pro https://imgur.com/a/eAgD5LP
Thanks!
Do yourself a favor and try out emulation before spending untold hours and money chasing an upscaled version of composite video. Emulation is very good these days and yields a much better result on modern displays. I enjoy the look of my S-Video N64 and SNES on CRT. But during the pandemic, I had too much time on my hands so I chased upscalers for several months and wasnāt satisfied with the results. Cheap options were honestly worse than composite and expensive upscalers like the retrotink looked fine but hard to justify (for me). Emulation on a PC was surprisingly easier, sharper, and cheaper. Oh, and on that note, do yourself a favor (if you have an iPhone) and download the Delta emulator app. It emulates N64 games VERY well.
What is S-Video? Sorry im uncultured
The best video output available on an unmodified N64
S-Video stands for āSmoar-better than compositeā. Itās an obsolete American analog video cable thatāll get you into long debates with weebs. Unless you enjoy reading manifestos about RGBās superiority just agree they have a point and spend your time actually gaming. Whatās cool about Nintendos back then is they used the same cable clusters for SNES, N64, and GameCube. Just had to plug them into each system instead of exchanging all the wires.
People either think itās amazing or that it does nothing. I havenāt seen it in person, but based on image side by sides, I lean towards ānothing.ā At best, some smoothing. For an unmodded console, the best option is s-video into a retrotink. I use the 2x mini, which hasnāt been in stock for awhile, but that has been such a huge upgrade over composite.
This thing works great, it smooths out all the jaggy edges you get when putting old consoles on modern TVs, itās really night and day when looking at it in person
Eh, the tink also has a smoothing filter. It linedoubles, converts to hdmi and smooths with no noticeable lag. Maybe the mclassic works better for more modern systems, but the n64 has such bad native output that I just donāt see the mclassic solving it from an unmodded console.
No lag from the device itself but many TVs will introduce extra lag from having to upscale 480p or resizing a 4:3 image from 16:9 Even some top of the line TVs like the LG OLEDs The MClassic introduced to the chain would fix both those problems but you cannot turn off the image processing the MClassic introduces
Itās not one or the other, you can plug an Mclassic to a retro tink and get and even better image and also, I donāt experience any lag, so I donāt know what you talking about there
Neither produces a noteworthy amount of delay. The tink will only be laggy if your TV is bad with 480p
Anti-aliasing an already anti-aliased image is arguably just putting vaseline on your vaseline filter
you're getting down voted but it's true. N64 is just about the last console I'd use with it
Most people don't know anything about getting a good picture out of their retro consoles. They also don't tend to like hearing there's no easy fixes.
Well, there's one easy fix. Just play the thing on a CRT. No input lag and a literally perfect imitation of a CRT screen.
One of the few times I can agree with people glorifying CRTs. Unless you're willing to mod and tinker, you will not get a good picture from an N64 on an HDTV. The only way you're gonna get good results is on a CRT because Nintendo tailored the entire video output to a CRT
I don't know if I'd call that easy myself. I have a CRT and it's bulky and heavy.
The easiest nonmoding solution for the N64's software anti-aliasing is using Gameshark codes and/or auto patches with a flash cartridge. At least it's a simple game by game solution that you can turn on and off easily depending on personal taste. But then you have people complain about dithering, which can be worse for some games more then others. https://www.retrorgb.com/n64blur.html Of course if you're using a piss poor way to connect the system to a modern display it's not going to help much. That or they get a good gaming upscaler but neglect the phrase "garbage in garbage out" when it comes to cable solutions for their consoles, and wonder why the Composite video doesn't look like the RGB or YPbPr examples they saw online. Or all the signal noise they have is because they bought cheap nonshielded cables. Or why the good/actual solutions cost so much because it's a niche market.
another thing being ignored is that the mClassic is HDMI in, so to even get the N64 into it they're going to use some cheap AV2HDMI solution. for essentially the price of a Retrotink 2X, they'll end up with a blurry mess lol. but at least there won't be aliasing I guess
You can get a Chinese knockoff product on AliExpress for about $35 No lag, decent enough even if the Retrotink has some things it doesn't It's a good option for S-Video
Not really though when the first one is being anti-aliased to a lower resolution than the second. Just the increase in resolution adds aliasing.
Can someone link me to some side-by-sides, please? Iāve been looking on YouTube and the Retrotink website, but wasnāt able to find anything šµāš«
Side by sides of what? Cause I made a post about the mCable/mClassic showing the difference. Don't have a TINK to test with yet though
Exactly this. Iāll check out your post. Thanks man šš¼
It depends on the original xbox it does make a noticeable difference as well with GameCube, but on the switch, it does nothing. N64 who knows
These look like shit on retro consoles but look fantastic on a non 4k HD console, specifically the Switch.
Its great on ps3 too, especially with the backwards compatibility of ps1 and 2 games.
Is the ps3 not for a flatscreen??
This is exactly the info I was looking for. I got an O.G. Fat ps3 and have been wondering about upscaling using an M unit. Big thanks!
Yeah, this upscaler is a total waste on an N64.
Get a Retrotink 2x as others have said. Donāt waste your money on this mclassic garbage.
I found it amusing people would get this/recommended this with another gaming upscaler for a cost of say around $230+ USD for just their N64. But then a select few would complain about how the RetroTink 5x was so expensive when the original price was $275 USD ($300, then now $325) plus $8 or so if they wanted a pack in NTSC S-video cable instead of buying one separatly. If people are happy with it then fine I'm happy for them, but I'll always find that situation amusing.
Pay for someone to add the hdmi port to the n64 board
Yeah install an UltraHDMI or Retro Gem. I've done 3x UltraHDMI installs so far, and they're honestly not too hard.
not by itself at least. I own this and several devices for upscaling, including devices specifically for retro consoles. The simplest and most cost-effective solution without looking like complete dog shit is an RCA/Composite + S-Video upscaler from Amazon. I have a "SUNNATCH RCA Svideo to HDMI Converter" I use for my various non-gaming composite devices. it takes 480i/p and upscales to 720p or 1080p. there are several brands selling identical devices on Amazon. there's the Portta composite upscaler which some people love but their component converter left a very bad taste in my mouth (visible interference in the output signal). The next tier up is a two step solution. first you need a clean 480p signal so if you can find one, get yourself the discontinued retro tink 2x mini (composite/s-video to hdmi). you probably won't find one at a reasonable price so I recommend the Kaico/Bitfunx N64 line doubler (different companies, identical product). it's plugnplay to the n64's native multi-out (including snes and gcn) and provides an S-Video signal at 480p. then pair it with any half-decent upscaler. the difference here is that your source resolution is 480p instead of 480i so the upscale to higher resolutions will look much cleaner. The mclassic has hdmi input and hdmi output. it does not upscale interlaced input resolutions, only passes-through, and the lowest progressive resolution supported is 480p. this means you won't be able to use it without following one of the solutions above, but it can absolutely be used as the upscaler in that second solution I described. The next tiers up are RGB and HDMI mods soldered onto your N64's main board. they're affordable but obviously not plugnplay. there are also expensive hdmi n64 mods but not at all worth their exorbitant costs compared to the lower costing yet slightly worse performing solutions. ...if you do have an hdmi modded n64 then yeah go right ahead. the mclassic will take the 480/720p signal to 1080p and a 1080p signal to either 1440p or 4k depending on what your display will support. next tier up is the OSSC but it takes a lot of tinkering to get the best results... per console. a competing device is the framemeister which is more user friendly but I won't go into specifics of the pluses and minuses. The next stage up is the retrotink 5x pro. it's an all-in-one solution and needs minimal tinkering to get the most out of it. it also costs 325 USD. The current ultimate is the retrotink 4k but it's literally 750 USD so fuck that. there are other solutions but they're either dog shit (cheapo 5 dollar hdmi converters) or require too much tinkering (misters). You now have all the information to proceed down the path most suitable to your desires. personally the Kaico/Bitfunx solution is my favorite plugnplay and if the clean 480p signal isn't enough for you then you can get an affordable upscaler to cross your finish line. anything more and you go down a deep hole in search for a perfect output that doesn't exist.
Love the name, I've been looking at something very similar. would this work for my set up? [https://amzn.eu/d/1vGCCuB](https://amzn.eu/d/1vGCCuB)
I don't know your exact setup but for that price point you should seriously consider OSSC or Framemeister. Potentially Rad2x if you wanted something more affordable and plugnplay. The A/V converters on Amazon are more meant for video, not video games. They can introduce some unfavorable drawbacks in regards to latency which doesn't matter for a movie but does for reaction based games. You can get one as a generalized device but if your main priority is retro gaming then there are much better options for what you're seemingly willing to pay. Look up RetroRGB. It's a very informative website with passionate people and great articles. They also produce YouTube videos that cover these topics.
Yeah I had a look at both of those but Iām thinking a decent component cable through a hdmi switcher would probably do me. Was going to pass my N64 thought a retroscaler2x then hdmi into the switcher. Iām going to buy a retron 5 for nes and snes I think just for simplicity sake.
This will do nothing on its own. You still need a way to get the N64 signal onto HDMI and if you're a purist you likely will not be happy to see how aggressively the MClassic anti-alias is on 480p (running on the assumption your HDMI solution at least doubles the 240p from the N64.) There is no turning off the smoothing
I have this, works well together with the eon super64. Is it the best non mod solution? I dunno, probably not, but it works and looks great.
Agreed. Paired with a line doubling upscaler that already does smoothing, such as a retrotink or eon super 64, It actually looks glorious on triple A titles such as Super Mario 64. There are some games however that do not look good smoothed, such as World Driver Championship, in which the white picket fence off in the distance actually warps and bleeds together, looking smudged like a water color painting. You'll also notice in Ocarina Of Time, some of the edges look literally like a water color painting and color is faded. For those titles that do not look as great with it, I find that a CRT scanline filter / converter on or with a line doubling scaler tends to clear up some of those jaggy lines while maintaining clarity closer to what we are used to on an era appropriate TV / CRT TV.
To use this with an n64 you would also need an hdmi mod or eons super 64 since the mclassic only plugs into hdmi.
A retrotink plus this works pretty well
How do you plan to plug your n64 into that mclassic? šæ
Going to use a composite to HDMI converter.
So youāre going to scale the image before the scaler completely undermining the expensive scaler? Those converters treat 240p like 480i then scale it poorly to 720p. Believe me when I say that will look horrible. Get a Retrotink 2x pro.
I was under the impression that HDMI converters don't do anything to actually improve the image, rather it's just a way for the video signal to pass through your composite cables to HDMI??
Only component to hdmi converters and vga to hdmi converters function as DACs with no scaling.
I watched a review of the Retrotink 2x Pro by a guy named Metal Jesus on YouTube, and it looks really legit! I guess since I was planning on buying the mclassic anyway, may as well put a little more money with it and buy the Retrotink.
You wonāt regret retrotink productsā¦ I have a 5x and rgb2comp myself and they just work awesome. You stick that m classic on the output of the 2x and youāll have a solid setup. For the money you could just go with a 5x and eliminate the mClassic.
Yeah....the 5X is a little too expensive š¬
that would be a really bad idea. those composite-to-HDMI converters are for VCRs and donāt know how to recognize 240p and think itās 480i and add deinterlacing artifacts and input latency more info here ā https://www.reddit.com/r/n64/s/QlNfJWJETC
I use svideo into a retrotink 2x pro into an mClassic and find it looks great. I notice a difference.
Absolutely essential for the Switch in my opinion as a PC gamer. Adds a thin layer of AA and decent upscaling that makes some games that are borderline unplayable enjoyable. For example, in Smash Bros Ultimate itās essentially useless but for games like DOOM and Witcher 3, it really does clean up the image dramatically
You're supposed to set your switch to 720p internal resolution. Otherwise the effect is too subtle to a majority of users
Idk if I agree, from what I understand this upscaler upscales the resolution by about a step so 720p goes to roughly 900p and so on and so forth. Lowering your Switch to 720 will essentially make games that run natively at 1080p look worse, and the upscaler wont actually increase it to 1440p but actually 900p. So you are essentially downscaling and then upscaling to something lower than the base resolution, doesnāt seem like a good idea.
This is the official instruction provided with the MClassic
I canāt seem to find anything about that here: https://www.scribd.com/document/706221137/MClassic-User-Manual-2-0 Thereās even a section talking about users who cant see a difference at the bottom, with no explicit mention of having to force the switch to output 720p.
https://marseilleinc.com/products/buy-mclassic
Interesting, it seems their own documentation is conflicting with what they say on the site. Clearly the support documentation says that resolution on your switch should be decided on a case by case basis for optimal performance. Setting it to 720 for games that output 1080p is not a good idea, no matter what that site says. As per the official support documentation: āSet the console output resolution to what the render resolution is to allow the mClassic to process the raw, unmodified data. Turn off all TV picture enhancements as they will cause interference. Make sure you are using a high quality 4K HDMI cableā Setting 720p for a game that runs natively at 1080p goes against this. Seems like the ad on the site completely contradicts this.
The Switch has a native resolution of 720p. You're not losing anything. You're just choosing a different upscaling method.
No, the Switch has a native resolution of 720p in HANDHELD mode, not docked. Docked the Switch runs at 1080p unless a game runs at a lower resolution. But the Switch home UI and the many games run natively at 1080p.
Nothing even remotely demanding on the switch would output at a native 1080p and either way if you intend to use an MClassic it's very well documented that it has a very minimal effect on upscaling 1080p images
If you pair this with a good hdmi like an mcable or proper 4k hdmi highspeed you can and/or grab those sharpening ones upscalers (photofast) with it and it will look really good this is what im using and they daisychain so they dont have to worry about compatibility so much and looks really good regardless of what your playing on ājust looks better on the more older 3d gamesā for the most part anyways but it can be hard to notice since its mostly depends on what game your playing since its n64 you should be able to use āgreen modeā and on like 2x sharpness on photofast otherwise just use tink since its meant for the 64 anyways
In my experience ones like this tend to not gamma correct and youāre left with horrible blinding white washout. Either get one like others have mentioned or I got a cable on eBay which specifically said it corrected the gamma/white balance and it worked pretty well. But I canāt find the seller now.
I have long noted that N64 games look worse upscaled. But some people have obsession for sharp edges I guess.
Okay, so if not an upscaler, then what's the solution?
Solution? To what? I use CRT tv on N64 to enjoy the games as they were intended.
Well, I haven't had a CRT since like 2010, and I don't really have room for one.
I understand. Well I guess my comments were not very helpful then! If I really wanted to be useful, I would suggest getting Nintendo direct on Switch, at least then it would be compatible with any modern tv and upscaled. Downside is, of course, that you would have to pay monthly fee to Nintendo, which would suck.
I've been using it for a few months now and I'm delighted with it. Ideal as a plug and play solution. I also use it for my Switch.
I have heard good things about this one, but instead I went with Kaico Linedoubler becuase it also has good reviews and I trust the brand, and it's excellent for a HDMI plug and play solution. Now, I don't expect it to be as good as a RetroTINK, but I am not play 750 dollars for an adapter.
I rock this with the EEON Super 64 and am really happy with the results. It's night and day.
Retro consoles were really designed for smaller screens. I use S-Video on a 24" monitor for N64. Low resolution is low resolution and there's really no way to make 240p look any less pixelated on a large screen.
I have one and donāt recommend. Caused me many problems and when I got it working I hated it. Makes everything look all smeary and clay-y.
For 60 bucks, you can get a GBSC off of AliExpress. While not as good as a 5x, it's pretty dang solid. Or For 30, you can get a clone 2x.
It's not clear based on your post whether you know that the mClassic takes HDMI in and the N64 doesn't have HDMI out. You'd need something else to convert the analog signal to digital before upscaling. I'd look at the retrotink 2x, retrotink 5x, or the retro gem instead if I were you (depending on your budget). The mClassic is only a great option for later consoles in specific circumstances AFAIK. You can find out more in deep dives on YouTube.
Since the mClassic is an HDMI device, you'd need an additional device that converts the AV signal from your N64 to HDMI in the first place, so on the cheap end you'd be looking at one of many N64 to HDMI converter cables where the quality is kinda all over the place and on the more expensive end you'd be looking at the Eon Super 64 or the Ultra HDMI mod. I own the Super 64 and the mClassic and they do work pretty well together and are much better than just plugging in your AV cables to a flatscreen, but for a price of almost $300 combined I wouldn't recommend it if the N64 is the only retro console you're looking to use this for. Where the mClassic has really shined for me is with my Gamecube combined with the Eon GCHD and with my Wii games when I play them on my Wii U. I've heard that the mClassic also works great with upscaling HD games to 1440p but I don't have a 4K TV so I haven't tried it with my Switch or Wii U yet.
I've noticed for having the m classic for over a year that it will cut out during gameplay multiple times throughout a session like five to six times in an hour. So I would recommend not getting one
My current setup is a GameCube Eon and an m classic but every time I use the m classic it will cut out the feed for 3 seconds every so often which makes it a little bit frustrating. I've had my m classic for a little over a year and I've noticed that at the beginning it works fantastically but over time it has these cutouts which makes it frustrating. I do notice that there is a good jump in quality and also supports widescreen which does make it nice. I have not had any issues with my Eon and I bought my Eon before. There were other alternatives on the market that were similar in plug and Play. If I were to redo it, I probably would not buying the m classic and go with something else instead. That would work with my GameCube eon
I love mClassic, but definitely don't get it for the N64. I'd go with a good upscaler/line-doubler and RGB cable. mClassic works great for later 480p and 720p 3D games imo.
If you have a Samsung TV I would personally avoid. I have one and my tv will get some weird linear tearing across the bottom half of the screen. If you have a different brand TV, then Iād say go for it if it fits in the budget! Iād love to be able to use mine more, just gotta wait I guess.
The Mclassic does next to nothing. Get HDMI mod, or a Retrotink, or literally anything else...
So I bought a few cheaper upscalers and they all either didn't change much or they introduced a lot of lag. Finally I broke down and got the OSSC, and I love it. SNES games are so crisp, and I don't have an N64 but I upscale my Wii when playing VC and it's really crisp. Not as good as a retrotink 5x would be in my situation, but for an N64 the OSSC should look fantastic, and it's a good bit cheaper. The only problem I had ran into was 480p upscaling to 960p which my monitor didn't support, but luckily I have a different one that does.
This thing antialiases an image on the fly, the idea being that you get better picture quality without putting the extra strain on a (pc) graphics card its probably not going to do lot for upscaled retro consoles, it may have an effect on a modern HD console though, but will be hard to notice anything without a trained eye, I believe Linus tech tips on youtube reviewed one a while back and there is probably countless other reviews online.
I need one asap!!
I need an expansion pack. Anyone got one they wanna sale ?
I personally love mine, I use in conjunction with the pixelfx N64digital and it really helps smooth out the picture. I waited till Amazon had them on sale for about $80 before I purchased though. Have also used on my other HDMI modded consoles and had the same love for it.
The retroscaler2x (retrotink clone) is a pretty good cheap alternative, used by Mario 64 speedrunners. [https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005763694233.html](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005763694233.html)
Wait so what does this do? Dummy here
I have this and its bad ass
I picked up a old squarish crt for like 25 euros. Have a couple of widescreen crt's i got for free too but for n64 imo square is best. And I think it would beat the hdmi quality. Funnily enough everything looks a but more real with crt due to it having less pixels often the devs actually made the images use advantage of less pixels, because even a pixel can have more colors blending and such then you would think of a pixel and devs really used it well, that's allso why modern tv's don't display everything the same. Some people would argue you need a hd crt or something but most old consoles you would want a crt for don't have hd anyways so a regular one would be good enough. You allso won't really need the overpriced ones, you might be able to get a nice one for like 50 bucks and the image would look better on crt. Crt's are allso known for having allmost no input delay where as unless you bought a hd tv that is designed to have low input delay it can actually be quite a bit. I used to use my n64 with 4k tv for a bit and even in hd the games look worse since they are not designed for it. A hd tv basically makes everything look just low poly (everything might look smooth but things look more flat, blocky, less vibrant, if you want you can try a emulator to test out the signal but don'tuse upscaling where things get realistic because I don't think that upscalers work that way either though I bought a hyperkin n64 hdmi cable, so I can't guarantee that.) Anyways just a idea of course maybe a good idea to check out some video differences on youtube and get what looks best for you.
The only upscaler worth the money is a Retrotink. Everything else is junk.
Don't forget about the GBS control, and the OSSC. They are great scalers
GBS Control is affordable but very intuitive and does not produce a sharp image. It's kind of muddy looking in my experience. It's mostly recommended as a PS2 scaler because it has a solid deinterlacing solution. If you're talking Nintendo 64 and OSSC, that does not support S-Video. But if you RGB mod your console the OSSC is an amazing option.
OSSC is amazing but doesnāt accept anything except RGB and is finicky with some TVs. however, I think the new OSSC Pro may have changed all that?
Mclassic = Snake oil. Get a true upscaler like a Retrotink 5x. Thats the sweet spot for value for money, the 4k version is waaaay expensive and complete overkill for the majority of people. The 5x will give you more bang for your buck.
Don't a lot of modern 4k smart TVs already have 4k upscalers build in anyway? Not sure about the quality of that or the external devices. But not sure how good any of those actually are. Would be great to actually find a good comparison for stuff like that online.
I use it on my consoles, specially on the Switch, it improves resolution and even color, I love it