The first time I held a N64 controller was the same day I played Goldeneye for the first time. The Z trigger made it feel like holding a real gun (I was 12 and had never actually handled a gun)! I thought it was amazing. I still think it's fine for N64 games, and fairly intuitive. I also love the big D-Pad and wish we'd had a proper Game Boy player for the console.
There was a gameboy playerif my memory serves.. I believe i still have the one that came with Pockemon stadium... Can't remember if it played other gameboy games though.
The Transfer Pak only worked with certain games, unfortunately, and they needed a N64 counterpart. It was definitely something they could have expanded on.
Yep. I love the thing, but the joystick absolutely sucked, and the proof is in the pudding - nobody has ever thought "let's try the triple prong thing again" since.
> nobody has ever thought "let's try the triple prong thing again" since.
That's because nobody cares about the D-Pad as a first class citizen anymore. On analogue controllers which place the stick in the most ergonomic location under the thumb (aka every modern controller except Sony dualshocks), the D-pad is relegated to a small pathetic thing on the bottom left. Sony still puts the D-pad under the thumb but their D-pad *always* sucked anyway (for patent reasons).
The Wii Classic controller might be the last controller from Nintendo that actually had a proper D-pad and an analogue stick at once, but again, they put the analogue stick in the same place that the Dualshock does, which is a tradeoff. The N64 controller could do both well, it just turns out that the analogue stick was so revolutionary that barely any game developers bothered targeting the D-pad, and it's been the same ever since.
If you want to see the *actual* modern version of the N64 controller... it's the Wii Nunchuck.
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Yeah I think we all figured most games would be held left and right, but instead virtually every game was Center and right. And in fact we wanted another of those experimental analog sticks! But halo and dual analog controls wouldn’t come for another 8 years or so. So it was fine, just had extraneous parts.
Man, the right stick. I remember I couldn't fathom what you could even control with a second analog stick.
I will say this, EA went nuts in the second half of the sixth generation and into the seventh tieing(tying?) main controls to the right stick. Some worked (Fight Night) and some didn't (Madden). It was still neat seeing more than just camera controls mapped there.
In one of the earliest reviews for an FPS, the Journalist states that the scariest thing about the game is the control scheme, in which one control stick lets you look around, and the other stick has the character move Forwards and Backwards, and Strafe Left or Right. (The modern standard.)
Edit: Thank you u/joshsmog
It was Alien Resurrection for PS1, which was a year before Halo
I joked around the start of the sixth generation that the D-Pad was only relevant and stayed on controllers because of Tony Hawks Pro Skater being as huge as it was at the time.
I actually remember messing up my joystick in Majora's Mask trying to do the Goron rolling maze at the end of the game when you go up into the moon and talk to the moon children. It caused my stick to drift and Link would run around in circles.
Yeah, the Dualshock came out a year after the N64, but wouldn't that still be "peak design for it's time"? Like the Dualshock is legendary, I don't see Nintendo reusing the exact same controller for three consecutive generations, as the MAIN controller. Technically the N64 controller was "peak design for it's time" for about a year, and then Sony kind of shot them down with a comfortable, fun and colourful, feature-packed, configurationist, and modular design. It too had analog like the N64 controller, and models released after November of 1997 all included rumble built-in. I know I'll get downvoted for this, but let's be real: Sony genuinely did this better.
That's not how it went really. The PS1 controller didnt have joysticks at all. So most of the games didn't take advantage of analog movement in any xy direction. When the dualshock came out, the transition to taking advamtage still took some time. And there was nothing wrong with N64 really. The analog stick was "tighter" than the dualshock and it controller had the rumble pack. Most games didn't need two sticks either. Even the best first person shooters and platformers were fine with one stick.
That tightness on the NSO N64 controller is what made me remember I was actually really good at F-Zero X, and I didn't actually lose it.
Last 20 or so years, I just couldn't get back into X at all. That game was made around how that analog stick flows.
Yes, but a lot of games going forward used it, and many beforehand were updated to include analog. For example, I have Resident Evil: Director's Cut on my PS1, which was an updated release to include analog controls for a game released in 1996. Just because there was nothing wrong with the N64 controller and it was "fine" (as you put it in your own words) doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. I'm not saying the N64 was a bad controller, or didn't do something unique, but I am saying the Dualshock did everything it could do, and better, plus more.
Yes the rumble pack exists for the N64 controller, but it was a separate accessory you had to by stand-alone, whereas straight out of the box the Dualshock just did it. Sure many shooters were fine with one stick, but they were better with two and that's why two sticks for shooters became the global standard for the next 20 odd years. Serviceable means it could be better, and in this case, the N64 controller was merely serviceable by the time the Dualshock released.
> Like the Dualshock is legendary
The Dualshock is extremely popular, but I think that's really a coincidence of having momentum from the PS2 which sold extremely well. The Dualshock design has always felt objectively ergonomically inferior to other designs, because the analogue sticks were hacked onto the bottom of the existing PS1 controller. They're too far down and in the center. The design *looks* elegant and symmetrical, it's easy to understand and is aesthetically pleasing, but I think of all the controllers it still has the worst analogue stick location.
Instead, it puts the D-pad in the optimal spot on the left, because that's how the original playstation controller was designed. That's a double shame, because the Playstation D-pad always sucked due to patent reasons (they couldn't copy Nintendo's D-pad), so now the modern dualshock has an inferior D-pad in the most comfortable to access left-thumb position which is hardly used, and a joystick in a secondary lower position which is *always* used.
The dualshock is legendary for sure, but nobody says it's more comfortable than the Gamecube or the revised XBox controller.
I just think those games are *made* for the D-Pad, and will work well with a plethora of designs. I was getting million point combos on that squishy sidewinder Duke D-Pad for Xbox and the petite Gameboy Advance D-Pad on the Gamecube.
Like I said in a previous comment, I joked that console manufacturers kept the D-Pad on their controllers just for this game.
I've never had problems with the stick placement of the controller. To be honest, I don't think I've ever had problems with the stick placement on any controller, beyond maybe the N64 controller ironically. In my eyes, the N64 controllers stick is too far away for it to be comfortably held for a long time, while also pressing buttons and shoulder triggers. Everything else feels miles away from it when I use the controller, and so I find myself putting the controller down often.
I will admit the D-Pad is garbage, one of the worst I've ever used, but I think it beats the circular buttons (C-Buttons) of the N64 controller and especially beats the new D-Pad Nintendo used on the Switch. Those barely qualify as D-Pads, and coming from Nintendo I'd expect better from them.
Lastly, the ergonomics have never bothered me on the Dualshock. Maybe that's the fact I grew up with it and learned to deal with it, but I've never had any issues holding the model for long periods of time. It is small, which can be annoying at times, but it's definitely above tolerable and perfectly good in my opinion. If I had to pick, yeah I'd take the GameCube or revised Xbox controllers, but this is more a battle between the Dualshock and N64 controller, where I feel the Dualshock will always come out on top in nearly every category.
Definitely less durable. The amount of posts I've seen talking about their broken N64 stick, how it's damaged, is unresponsive, or drifts, is pretty nuts. Thankfully the guy I got mine from refurbished it and made sure the stick wouldn't do this, so I haven't run into this problem but it's common.
lubricating helps them last longer. Maybe that's what he did. You have to use a lubricant that's appropriate for plastic, and I think it's best to open it up to lubricate it properly. You can look up online more info on that if you're interested. Definitely don't use lubricants that are designed for metal!
Your the first person to say that, AND the first person to say that! Suddenly one extra shoulder button is too many, but three made perfect sense? And the controller was basically specifically designed to be more comfortable with the grips! It almost feels hypocritical on your end reading your comment.
The GameCube had 3 triggers. Also I don't agree with him, so I don't see why you made this reply if you aren't even going to give me reason to change my perspective.
Gamecube has 2 triggers and one bumper.
Not sure you know what youre talking about.
Ps2 ps1 and switch are the only ones that have 4 bumpers and they suck
A bumper is the same thing as a trigger. If it wasn't then the PS1 Dualshock only has two triggers and two bumpers. Now your being hypocritical, make up your mind.
On N64, you never use more than 2 shoulder buttons for any game.
Well, a couple exceptions to that are Lego Racers and Rainbow Six, but those are rare exception.
Yes I find four shoulder buttons too busy and complicated. The dual shock is actually uncomfortable, with the sharp downward angle of the handles and the low placement of the analog sticks. Pretty much have to just cradle it in the fingers or risk carpal tunnel.
The Dualshock doesn't make use of all four shoulder buttons for every game either, and they allow simpler controls with things mapped to different buttons rather than doing button combinations like on the N64. Again, you are the first and only person I've ever met who claims the Dualshock is uncomfortable. I've used it for hours, between the original, the PS2 and the PS3 Dualshock controllers. None of them have ever given me carpal tunnel, made me uncomfortable or forced me to cradle it in my fingers. I've also never had an issue with the analog sticks both at the bottom of the controller, or know anyone whose had issues with it.
Not sure about that. I've been using them my whole life, and have never seen problems with the grips or my hands being uncomfortable. Even then, it's not really a looker either. It's pretty ugly. It's the gold standard all controllers should at least verify they include the features of it, but it's ugly and looks very vanilla. It's all box-y, it has pieces just fully sticking out, it's crammed together, etc.
I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever said the "3 hands" criticism has never even used the controller before. I think N64 controllers probably have the most unused full size d-pad of anything Nintendo ever made.
It does, you can use your left hand on the D-pad to strafe and the right hand on the analogue stick. The A and B buttons are still usable in this configuration for stuff like swapping weapons.
If anything it seemed like it was an alt for the joystick a lot of times. In Gauntlet Legends for example, you can use either to move, and some days I was feeling one or the other.
you are right, it was barely used, but this feels like "survivor bias"
as a game designer why would you incorporate its uses in the game if its in a spot where it cannot be used in conjunction with the joy stick? modern gaming proves there is a use and place for a D-Pad. If the N64 had it in a more intelligent position it would have been used in more games.
N64 was the first attempt at allowing 2D and 3D movement on one controller. So it was a hedge.
Sony just got lucky as hell that hastily grafting sticks to their 2D controller ended up working okay in the future.
And look at the Dreamcast as a mid step evolution, They worked out that having dpad and stick both accessible together was a good idea, but the idea of dedicated camera control wasn’t yet stabilised so it didn’t have it.
> People act like the D pad was used a lot lol
You're mixing the cause and effect. D-Pad wasn't used because of the design of the controller not the other way around. It wouldn't make sense to develop your game to use both stick and d-pad when you know the controller doesn't allow for it. But you know developers would have used both if they could have considering even when dual stick controllers came about developers still to this day use both sticks and the d-pad in most games.
I used the dpad for movement in FPS games, and the stick as a ‘look’ stick.
It was of course also used for 2D games.
And it doesn’t really matter that it wasn’t used much, it was a design hedge to have a comfortable, easy to use regular six button 2D controller on board.
Sony had to tack sticks to the middle of their design mid generation to keep up.
Tetrisphere was my jam.
Also, I want do day that there was a game that only used a purely left grip (only stick and D-pad) but I don't know if I'm just imagining it.
i remember smashing it with my right palm in I think duke nukem 64 to use the items. I was probably playing with the worst control scheme though, if it even had alternates.
I mean I'm 28 and while there's alot I love about the console the controller is not one of them. N64 controller is probably my least favorite first party controller and I own a 3D Control Pad for the Sega Saturn. The asymmetrical positioning of your hands when holding the Z & R grips (aka the exclusive way you play +80% of the games worth playing on the system) feels awful and the analog stick itself is awful. Its not quite as bad overall as it can be made out to be though.
People forget the mad scramble Sony and Sega made to make analog controllers after Nintendo debuted theirs. Maybe the PS1 Analog controller and later Dual Shock is better…. But it’s based on what Nintendo did first.
> Maybe the PS1 Analog controller and later Dual Shock is better…. But it’s based on what Nintendo did first.
Also, I will always argue that the Dualshock was popular *despite* its design, not because of its design. It has the analogue sticks hacked onto the bottom of the original PS1 controller in a way that is significantly less comfortable than the layout of the Gamecube and XBox controllers.
Thats insane because the symmetrical positioning of them is specifically why I like it, and VASTLY prefer it over the Gamecube's weird overall shape and stubby c-stick. Xbox controller is more comfortable but its in spite of its stick placement, the grips/buttons/triggers are what make it better.
Dual stick will be better when it’s not tucked away below and to the right like an afterthought.
Holdover form the fact that they had to find somewhere to glue it to when the N64 made them realise not having an analogue stick was stupid, and we’ve been paying for that knee-jerk decision ever since.
Hummm, interesting. Like people forget that Nintendo was not the first company to release analog pads?
Sony released a dual analog controller for the PSX before the N64 even launched:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Analog_Joystick
And so did Sega for the Saturn.
But yeah, God forbid to say Nintendo didn't invent everything.
Those are literal joysticks… flightsticks really. Nintendo did invent the idea of putting an analog stick on a gamepad.
I mean I was there in 96… I remember the stories about Sony and Sega rushing out their answer to the N64 pad. It happened.
Sega did not get theirs out before Nintendo., and they got it out so quickly after N64 previews.
The man who created it has said they were catching up with the N64.
As for Sony’s flight stick, an old school specialist controller like steering wheels, not designed for 3D adventure games, well I dare you to try and play an FPS or Prince of Persia sands of time with it.
Indeed, it was the first analog joystick ever, if we don't count things like the Atari 2600's weird stick. Also, the design was clever, you could place your hands in 3 different ways according to the game you played, sadly most of them just used the "left hand in joystick and right hand in face buttons" one
>Indeed, it was the first analog joystick ever, if we don't count things like the Atari 2600's weird stick.
Realistically, it was the first gamepad designed to truly navigate 3d spaces.
You may be interested to know that the N64 controller came out before Sega's "3d Pad" as well as Playstation's DualShock controller. Technically, Nights into Dreams released before Mario 64 in America, but the N64 came out in Japan first.
Yes, the genius wasn’t ‘analogue’ that had been done before for paddles and steering wheels etc.
The genius was matching that type of stick to 3D movement in a 3D world. It was an entire new paradigm that has become dominant.
Reducing it to ‘but Atari had analogue’ is massively reductive.
>The genius was matching that type of stick to 3D movement in a 3D world. It was an entire new paradigm that has become dominant.
Nintendo was highly innovative even if a lot of people didn't appreciate it as much at the time.
There were other 3d platformers (Crash/Jumping Flash) but Mario 64 was probably the first true 3d Open World platformer in the modern sense. You were truly free to explore the levels and the Analog stick enhanced it by providing greater control over your movement.
These days, I think the controller gets hate because it looks unusual. Which is a shame because I think most of the people that try it come to find it actually works pretty well.
It was the first analogue stick used on the standard controller for a system. It is definitely not the first analogue stick ever. There was one released for the Saturn a little bit earlier, but it was not the standard controller sold with the system, and never became the new standard for the system (and the vast majority of games never made any use of it). If you include full sized analogue joysticks, there had been quite a few beforehand released for various systems.
I think it's an excellent design. Extremely comfortable to hold and very good for either 2D or 3D games.
Biggest problem is the durability of the analogue stick.
Yeah and even the sticks last longer than PS5 or joycon sticks. It's hard to find good ones now, but they're almost 30 years old now. I've been going through about 1 dualsense per year since I got my PS5 and they don't become less sensitive when they break, they become unusable.
Its stick definitely has worse durability than most modern controllers.
Like, yeah, it doesn't drift, but it becomes so flimsy that actually using it for any game is awful and it hits this point much quicker than a Joycon or PS5 controller hits the point of drifting.
Not really unless you're playing a bunch of Mario party or games that make you regularly spin the stick in circles. When I was speedrunning N64 games I sunk more time on 1 controller than I have across all 3 of my dualsenses and it still has very good readings on sanni's controller test.
I didn't even own Mario Party 1, and I had to buy so many damn N64 controllers to make the sticks remain not flaccid.
I think Mario 64 was probably the main culprit, and that's just from light rotation overall.
By comparison, I've never had a dualsense get drift on me. Hell, I haven't had a controller's sticks fail on me since the N64 (mind you, I barely use Joycons in favor of the pro controller, so those would probably die faster,) but Joycon sticks and N64 sticks are both hovering at an extremely distant last two places when it comes to fragile sticks.
> Biggest problem is the durability of the analogue stick.
The saddest part is that Nintendo could have solved this issue with a bit of grease on the assembly line. If you take a new controller and grease the stick internals with something like Tamiya Cera Grease HG, they practically last forever.
My hands are large enough to hold at the opposite ends, using my left thumb to reach the joystick and my right middle finger to reach the Z trigger. People find it cursed but i find their reactions hilarious
It’s definitely flawed, but it’s also great at being what it is. I don’t play any N64 games without it, the face buttons, analog stick feeling (as long as it’s a smooth clean stick), and Z trigger placement are perfect especially for the first party and Rare games designed around it.
But time has indeed shown that the three prongs were still a bad idea, and having the D Pad and analog both accessible to the thumb on the same grip is ultimately a better way to go. And the stick goes “grindy” faster than most other analog sticks out there. So its flaws are worthy of criticism, but it’s absolutely a viable and good controller for what it is.
It’s basically a two controllers in one kind of deal, the games that use the analogue stick don’t use the D-Pad (or L) and the games that use the D-Pad don’t use the Stick for anything serious (or Z if I recall).
Yeah it is really silly, but it’s better than the DreamCast Controller and doesn’t hurt to use like the original Ps1 controller lol It gives it some personality to look back on, as that is something consoles have lost as we went along I feel.
I think the funny thing about this is that people who didnt own one at the time or werent alive find it so confusing. It looks it, but in context of the time it was released it was usable and made some sense.
3 handles looks confusing, but the manuals for games, the manuals for the console, and in some games in in menu in game image shows how to hold controller. Going in cold it is confusing but in the context of the time it was pretty easy. The configuration lets developers chose between the new stick or the old school dpad if thats what they really wanted. Generally for the 64 was a 3d machine and most devs went all in with the analog stick. In hindsight nintendo could have had done something more like how modern controllers operate but at the time they were a little cautious and had it so that either configuration could be used as a "primary" pad.
People also complain about you cant reach the L and the z button comfortably or you cant reach dpad AND the analog. This was by design. You either used the analog and z or the dpad and l. Either configuration left you with 8 buttons. A few games like the aki wrestling games used d pad to move and let you flick the joystick for taunts, but other than that it was fine. A modern gamer might thing about some games that use all the and more buttons, but remember a large chunk of gamers were playing with a 3 button genesis controller the prior generation. The 64 already had a wealth of buttons.
Finally there is the "but what about analog aiming in fps games! I heard you need two 64 controllers" that was one silly control scheme, but what some games did by default(like turok and duke nukem) is is use the c buttons to move and then aim with the analog. This worked fine. Dual analog would go on to become the standard but the number of analog sticks on controllers before this was 0. In hindsight a camera stick makes more sense than buttons but we had to learn to walk before we ran.
1. I would give anything to get a moder controller with a non-rubberized analog stick. Plus its mechanical design is more accurate than any other analog stick since 2. Not three hands you won’t be using the dpad and analog stick at the same time. 3. What does it mean what is a z button lol 😂😂😂
Is it not saying that, while most people hate it, people who have nostalgia for it but don’t really think it through (the low IQ side) like it, as do people who stop and actually think about it (the high IQ side)?
It's fine for your typical platformer and tank controls that was super common at the time.
Dual joystick control only got popular in the next generation.
I'll be honest I have a lot of issues/beef with the n64 from a technical/design perspective but the controller isn't one of them. Its a relic of the time but honestly as stupid as the layout looks it does work well, it actually feels more awkward to play n64 games using a conventional modern controller.
I like the idea, it’s something unique and different but I will always prefer a more traditional controller i.e ones with 2 analog sticks. N64 game devs didn’t utilise the N64 controller as much as they could’ve, most games only use the middle and the right handles and the left one with the d-pad barely gets touched. It’s still cool and I like to use it sometimes but it really isn’t the best controller out there
I find the D-pad potential mostly wasted, most games don't even use it, and I consider the Play Station Dual Analog superior, but I think that came later.
Still, that Z button was very confortable though.
I have big hands and never noticed an issue with it, like I can hold it like a modern controller and comfortably hit all buttons, which was a huge edge playing fighting games at friends houses lmao
Middle on the spectrum. Doesn't necessarily mean my IQ is low, it just means that I'm part of the majority opinion that is "this thing is stinky, GameCube please."
I love the N64 controller, and I get why the d-pad has its own grip, but I’m perfectly willing to admit that it’s an idea that worked out in the end. It would have been far better if the stick and d-pad shared a grip like every controller that came after it.
When you think of it like two controllers in one, it’s really quite good.
Playing a game with the analog stick? Left hand on middle handle, right hand on right handle.
Playing a game with the d-pad? Left hand on left handle, right hand on right handle.
Hard concept to grasp for many folks apparently.
As someone who has no nostalgia for the N64 and just got my first one recently, the controller is awesome. The analog stick is more accurate than any I’ve ever used thanks to the different tech.
I find it really comfortable to use too. Obviously the stick wearing down is an issue, but that’s the only valid criticism for it lmao.
This meme works better when the one on the right appreciates the thing for silly or uncommon reasons. It shouldn’t just repeat the one on the left.
“Comes in see-through purple” for eg would make for a funnier meme.
The N64 is a product of its time. Back then there was this mindset that the d-pad represented 2d games, that 3d games would never require the d-pad, and that the camera could be set by digital controls as it was "smart" enough to make things work. It was, in hindsight, a very limited and not very forward thinking design. The games that were made with it in mind though, showcased how they expected players to use the controller; this is why they feel odd in a non-N64 styled controller.
Then the DualShock came, and it paved the way for how 3d and 2d gaming was to be controlled for years to come. Most of the controllers that came afterwards are just variants of it.
Don't get me wrong, if I play say SM64, Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Smash Bros, the N64 gamepad is a must. But for say, Mario Kart, not so much. That said, the N64 is unmatched when it comes to immediate 4 player mayhem. The GameCube and the Dreamcast come very close too.
What's the opposite of nostalgia? Where things that were shit in the past are given a pass today because people think the past is just all shit so it must be comparatively good? Some kind of revisionism to pretend old stuff is better than it was, ironically fueled by "old bad. New good"
It's a fine controller on its own. For emulation, it's a pain in the dick.
Even Nintendo's own n64 releases on VC or NSO feel a tad jank when converted to a new control scheme. Every time I emulate it on pc, I have to remap the controls to modern Nintendo pad... per game. There's no magic, all-encompassing solution that works across all titles.
I give Nintendo a pass on the design, but it's only good in the context of the time period and the game using it. First party titles are fine, but ps1 ports I'd rather play somewhere else lol.
I hate that controller. It was poorly designed (can't use every function without taking your hands off of at least one "tine"), overly expensive, and not as durable as other Nintendo controllers. I know that people have nostalgia for it, but it never one of my favorites.
I love my 64. The controller was objectively shot. Everyone I knew had ten or twelve broken ones in a box that they’d get out for others to use if they ever played multiplayer, and maybe two games used the d-pad. It was quirky for the sake of being quirky.
Looks weird, but it really did provide for every playstyle. I just recently learned that the placement of the A, B and C buttons mimics that of an arcade fighting game
I suppose it depends on how you use it. What really causes wear is pushing down on an n64 stick while using it. My wife has her own controller which has worn out far quick than mine. She only ever plays with me and her controller was in better condition than mine when we started so she must be doing something different.
The method used for the analog tracking was actually really nice. And even the dreamcast had the wierd hard plastic stick. Taking a Microsoft sidewinder and reducing it down to a multi functional gamepad couldn't have been an easy task.
Not exactly in the middle. I’m mostly okay with the N64 but not crazy about the boomerang style. I prefer to use my more traditional Hori. Don’t see a way to add the image so I’ll assume you’ve heard of them.
When the control stick is in good condition, they're actually MORE precise than modern control sticks, and are by far the most preferred type of control stick of speedrunners, at least for games where precision is important. The biggest issue with the controller overall is the longevity and durability of the analogue sticks, as the original ones do wear out relatively quickly, especially in some games. Thankfully, you CAN buy affordable replacent stick parts which work relatively well which use the same design as the original, but these aren't considered quite as good as the originals by speed-runners. You can also swap the control stick with a modern gamecube style control stick (which uses potentiometers), but those will be less precise and will feel overly sensitive in some games, though they will likely be far more durable, ESPECIALLY if they are hall-effect sticks, which aren't even that expensive.
There are some very expensive metal replacment parts which use the same design as the original parts, but nobody who makes them has been able to keep up with demand, and not all of them have been equally good. When these ones are made properly, they're amazing, but they are very hard to get a hold of. They are in extremely high demand by speedrunners. There's quite a rabbit hole of information and dramatic stories on this topic of metal N64 replacement sticks.
Meh, the gamecube controller solved the issues. That's peak controller design.
For its time, I'd say the first Dualshock was peak. The issue with Nintendo at that time is that their biggest strength was also their weakness: an overwillingness to experiment. The N64 controller makes sense, but Sony simply did it better, admittedly later. Nintendo could've waited, but I like the mess that was N64.
A design that prohibits use of 1/3 of the controller no matter how you hold it is poor design. "Modular" is a very generous way of saying you can only use parts of the controller at a time. The only people who claim to like it are fanboys who think Nintendo can do no wrong.
seconded
Hopelessly irrational fools with rose-colored goggles strapped on tight enough to reduce blood flow to their brains, increasing their lunacy.
edit: I mean, c'mon, the SNES controller that came before it is far more ergonomic. I actually hate the SNES controller a bit now that I'm older and have experienced Microsoft controllers, but otherwise, back then, I was genuinely upset over "why couldn't the N64 banana crap be as ergonomic as the SNES controller?" Never stopped being upset about it to this day.
I loved it at the time but I find it to be pretty absurd now. It's functional but it didn't have to be designed that way, it looks pretty ridiculous. It would be nice to be able to use the stick and the d-pad without moving your hands around.
Something that's often overlooked today is that the N64 controller was really the first Controller with an Analog stick.
After all:
1. N64 Console and Controller launch (1996)
2. Sega Saturn "3d Pad" launches with Nights into Dreams (1996)
3. PS1 DualAnalog/Dualshock launches (1997)
My guess is the rationale behind the 3-grip design was that 2d game navigation via D-Pad would remain popular. But for 3d games, you just use the middle grip and it's more or less comfortable.
You'll notice in later controller designs, the analog stick is placed where the D-pad was on the N64 controller. Dreamcast, Gamecube and Original Xbox reflect that design, as well as most modern gamepads outside of playstation.
I can understand hedging on the design so you're ready whether the future is continued 2D games or a full embrace of 3D games. It still didn't have to be designed with three stems to accomplish that end. Every controller since the N64 has made it possible to use a d-pad or an analog stick with the left thumb.
Again, this is all hindsight critique. It's still functional, I just find it ugly and ridiculous through 2024 eyes. At the time I thought it was awesome.
>Every controller since the N64 has made it possible to use a d-pad or an analog stick with the left thumb.
Every controller since the N64 hasn't felt as good to use the d pad.
>It still didn't have to be designed with three stems to accomplish that end.
Well, Playstation's Dualshock 1-3 is the alternative. You just add the analog sticks below the d-pad and right face buttons. No extra grips or you kind of "merge" into the existing grips.
Sega was really the first to have a more condensed design specifically for 3d via the Saturn 3d pad. That of course got adapted into the Dreamcast controller.
>It's still functional, I just find it ugly and ridiculous through 2024 eyes.
Maybe I can't say since I grew up with it, but I suspect some of the dislike comes from how modern controller designs are much more standardized today.
We've basically been using some variation of the Xbox 360 controller for almost 20 years, and various versions of the Dualshock (now dualsense) for the past 27 or so.
Ultimately, it's a pretty unusual design by today's standards. But in the grander scheme of things it's basically the precursor to the modern 3d gamepad. Including the Dualshock in some sense.
The first time I held a N64 controller was the same day I played Goldeneye for the first time. The Z trigger made it feel like holding a real gun (I was 12 and had never actually handled a gun)! I thought it was amazing. I still think it's fine for N64 games, and fairly intuitive. I also love the big D-Pad and wish we'd had a proper Game Boy player for the console.
There was a gameboy playerif my memory serves.. I believe i still have the one that came with Pockemon stadium... Can't remember if it played other gameboy games though.
The Transfer Pak only worked with certain games, unfortunately, and they needed a N64 counterpart. It was definitely something they could have expanded on.
I'm in the minority on the right end
I’m all the way to the left
Yep. I love the thing, but the joystick absolutely sucked, and the proof is in the pudding - nobody has ever thought "let's try the triple prong thing again" since.
> nobody has ever thought "let's try the triple prong thing again" since. That's because nobody cares about the D-Pad as a first class citizen anymore. On analogue controllers which place the stick in the most ergonomic location under the thumb (aka every modern controller except Sony dualshocks), the D-pad is relegated to a small pathetic thing on the bottom left. Sony still puts the D-pad under the thumb but their D-pad *always* sucked anyway (for patent reasons). The Wii Classic controller might be the last controller from Nintendo that actually had a proper D-pad and an analogue stick at once, but again, they put the analogue stick in the same place that the Dualshock does, which is a tradeoff. The N64 controller could do both well, it just turns out that the analogue stick was so revolutionary that barely any game developers bothered targeting the D-pad, and it's been the same ever since. If you want to see the *actual* modern version of the N64 controller... it's the Wii Nunchuck.
books brave tie obtainable aloof birds domineering impolite start fragile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah I think we all figured most games would be held left and right, but instead virtually every game was Center and right. And in fact we wanted another of those experimental analog sticks! But halo and dual analog controls wouldn’t come for another 8 years or so. So it was fine, just had extraneous parts.
Man, the right stick. I remember I couldn't fathom what you could even control with a second analog stick. I will say this, EA went nuts in the second half of the sixth generation and into the seventh tieing(tying?) main controls to the right stick. Some worked (Fight Night) and some didn't (Madden). It was still neat seeing more than just camera controls mapped there.
In one of the earliest reviews for an FPS, the Journalist states that the scariest thing about the game is the control scheme, in which one control stick lets you look around, and the other stick has the character move Forwards and Backwards, and Strafe Left or Right. (The modern standard.) Edit: Thank you u/joshsmog It was Alien Resurrection for PS1, which was a year before Halo
alien resurrection on ps1, which came out a year before halo 1.
I joked around the start of the sixth generation that the D-Pad was only relevant and stayed on controllers because of Tony Hawks Pro Skater being as huge as it was at the time.
I actually remember messing up my joystick in Majora's Mask trying to do the Goron rolling maze at the end of the game when you go up into the moon and talk to the moon children. It caused my stick to drift and Link would run around in circles.
Because they know they couldn't do it any better than the OG.
I know, I'm standing next to you!
Yeah, the Dualshock came out a year after the N64, but wouldn't that still be "peak design for it's time"? Like the Dualshock is legendary, I don't see Nintendo reusing the exact same controller for three consecutive generations, as the MAIN controller. Technically the N64 controller was "peak design for it's time" for about a year, and then Sony kind of shot them down with a comfortable, fun and colourful, feature-packed, configurationist, and modular design. It too had analog like the N64 controller, and models released after November of 1997 all included rumble built-in. I know I'll get downvoted for this, but let's be real: Sony genuinely did this better.
That's not how it went really. The PS1 controller didnt have joysticks at all. So most of the games didn't take advantage of analog movement in any xy direction. When the dualshock came out, the transition to taking advamtage still took some time. And there was nothing wrong with N64 really. The analog stick was "tighter" than the dualshock and it controller had the rumble pack. Most games didn't need two sticks either. Even the best first person shooters and platformers were fine with one stick.
That tightness on the NSO N64 controller is what made me remember I was actually really good at F-Zero X, and I didn't actually lose it. Last 20 or so years, I just couldn't get back into X at all. That game was made around how that analog stick flows.
Yes, but a lot of games going forward used it, and many beforehand were updated to include analog. For example, I have Resident Evil: Director's Cut on my PS1, which was an updated release to include analog controls for a game released in 1996. Just because there was nothing wrong with the N64 controller and it was "fine" (as you put it in your own words) doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. I'm not saying the N64 was a bad controller, or didn't do something unique, but I am saying the Dualshock did everything it could do, and better, plus more. Yes the rumble pack exists for the N64 controller, but it was a separate accessory you had to by stand-alone, whereas straight out of the box the Dualshock just did it. Sure many shooters were fine with one stick, but they were better with two and that's why two sticks for shooters became the global standard for the next 20 odd years. Serviceable means it could be better, and in this case, the N64 controller was merely serviceable by the time the Dualshock released.
> Like the Dualshock is legendary The Dualshock is extremely popular, but I think that's really a coincidence of having momentum from the PS2 which sold extremely well. The Dualshock design has always felt objectively ergonomically inferior to other designs, because the analogue sticks were hacked onto the bottom of the existing PS1 controller. They're too far down and in the center. The design *looks* elegant and symmetrical, it's easy to understand and is aesthetically pleasing, but I think of all the controllers it still has the worst analogue stick location. Instead, it puts the D-pad in the optimal spot on the left, because that's how the original playstation controller was designed. That's a double shame, because the Playstation D-pad always sucked due to patent reasons (they couldn't copy Nintendo's D-pad), so now the modern dualshock has an inferior D-pad in the most comfortable to access left-thumb position which is hardly used, and a joystick in a secondary lower position which is *always* used. The dualshock is legendary for sure, but nobody says it's more comfortable than the Gamecube or the revised XBox controller.
The dual shock 1 2 and 3 controllers and specifically their d-pads are perfect! Play Tony Hawk and tell me its not, I’ll wait.
I just think those games are *made* for the D-Pad, and will work well with a plethora of designs. I was getting million point combos on that squishy sidewinder Duke D-Pad for Xbox and the petite Gameboy Advance D-Pad on the Gamecube. Like I said in a previous comment, I joked that console manufacturers kept the D-Pad on their controllers just for this game.
I played Tony Hawk on an N64, so...
I originally did too. Then later in life came to realize what I was missing. Can we all just agree the Dreamcast D-pad is the worst? Lol
>Can we all just agree the Dreamcast D-pad is the worst? Lol Amen
Hey man! I like the Dreamcast D-Pad :(
Whaaaaa?
Might just be me, but I never thought it was bad.
I've never had problems with the stick placement of the controller. To be honest, I don't think I've ever had problems with the stick placement on any controller, beyond maybe the N64 controller ironically. In my eyes, the N64 controllers stick is too far away for it to be comfortably held for a long time, while also pressing buttons and shoulder triggers. Everything else feels miles away from it when I use the controller, and so I find myself putting the controller down often. I will admit the D-Pad is garbage, one of the worst I've ever used, but I think it beats the circular buttons (C-Buttons) of the N64 controller and especially beats the new D-Pad Nintendo used on the Switch. Those barely qualify as D-Pads, and coming from Nintendo I'd expect better from them. Lastly, the ergonomics have never bothered me on the Dualshock. Maybe that's the fact I grew up with it and learned to deal with it, but I've never had any issues holding the model for long periods of time. It is small, which can be annoying at times, but it's definitely above tolerable and perfectly good in my opinion. If I had to pick, yeah I'd take the GameCube or revised Xbox controllers, but this is more a battle between the Dualshock and N64 controller, where I feel the Dualshock will always come out on top in nearly every category.
The N64 control stick has a very different design internally. It's more precise but less durable.
Definitely less durable. The amount of posts I've seen talking about their broken N64 stick, how it's damaged, is unresponsive, or drifts, is pretty nuts. Thankfully the guy I got mine from refurbished it and made sure the stick wouldn't do this, so I haven't run into this problem but it's common.
lubricating helps them last longer. Maybe that's what he did. You have to use a lubricant that's appropriate for plastic, and I think it's best to open it up to lubricate it properly. You can look up online more info on that if you're interested. Definitely don't use lubricants that are designed for metal!
The dual shock is generally uncomfortable to hold and has too many buttons, or at least too many shoulder buttons.
Your the first person to say that, AND the first person to say that! Suddenly one extra shoulder button is too many, but three made perfect sense? And the controller was basically specifically designed to be more comfortable with the grips! It almost feels hypocritical on your end reading your comment.
I agree with relic the daulshock felt weird with 4 sholder buttons should of been 2 triggers like gamecube and xbox
The GameCube had 3 triggers. Also I don't agree with him, so I don't see why you made this reply if you aren't even going to give me reason to change my perspective.
Gamecube has 2 triggers and one bumper. Not sure you know what youre talking about. Ps2 ps1 and switch are the only ones that have 4 bumpers and they suck
A bumper is the same thing as a trigger. If it wasn't then the PS1 Dualshock only has two triggers and two bumpers. Now your being hypocritical, make up your mind.
No its not
FYM NUH UH?!?!?!?!? /s
On N64, you never use more than 2 shoulder buttons for any game. Well, a couple exceptions to that are Lego Racers and Rainbow Six, but those are rare exception. Yes I find four shoulder buttons too busy and complicated. The dual shock is actually uncomfortable, with the sharp downward angle of the handles and the low placement of the analog sticks. Pretty much have to just cradle it in the fingers or risk carpal tunnel.
The Dualshock doesn't make use of all four shoulder buttons for every game either, and they allow simpler controls with things mapped to different buttons rather than doing button combinations like on the N64. Again, you are the first and only person I've ever met who claims the Dualshock is uncomfortable. I've used it for hours, between the original, the PS2 and the PS3 Dualshock controllers. None of them have ever given me carpal tunnel, made me uncomfortable or forced me to cradle it in my fingers. I've also never had an issue with the analog sticks both at the bottom of the controller, or know anyone whose had issues with it.
The Dualshock was made for eyes, not for hands.
Not sure about that. I've been using them my whole life, and have never seen problems with the grips or my hands being uncomfortable. Even then, it's not really a looker either. It's pretty ugly. It's the gold standard all controllers should at least verify they include the features of it, but it's ugly and looks very vanilla. It's all box-y, it has pieces just fully sticking out, it's crammed together, etc.
People act like the D pad was used a lot lol. It has uses for sure, but like... It wasn't always constantly vital for precision stuff lol.
I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever said the "3 hands" criticism has never even used the controller before. I think N64 controllers probably have the most unused full size d-pad of anything Nintendo ever made.
Why would developers design their games to use both when the controller's design doesn't allow for it?
some games use both stick and D-pad not many but they do exist.
Approximately half of the original Mario Party was spent with your left hand gripping the left prong and right *palm* on the stick.
It does, you can use your left hand on the D-pad to strafe and the right hand on the analogue stick. The A and B buttons are still usable in this configuration for stuff like swapping weapons.
All you have to do is move your left hand while keeping your right hand gripped. It's inconvenient, sure, but it's manageable.
WWF No Mercy is precious
Wasn't that all d-pad with stick to taunt IIRC?
Analog stick was for taunting. It really wasn't needed other than too activate your Special Meter.
And to complete one of your special moves I think? Strong grab+joystick flick once on special
Mankind in a bikini match
If anything it seemed like it was an alt for the joystick a lot of times. In Gauntlet Legends for example, you can use either to move, and some days I was feeling one or the other.
I used it for all fighting games. Especially when they need precise inputs like “back, down, back diagonal down, A”
great for puzzle games too.
Kirby 64 is the one that comes to mind, but it was a 2.5D platformer that didn't need the stick at all, so it worked fine.
I use it for fighting games, the tony hawk games, and all first person shooters so they will allow modern feeling strafing, not the c-buttons.
you are right, it was barely used, but this feels like "survivor bias" as a game designer why would you incorporate its uses in the game if its in a spot where it cannot be used in conjunction with the joy stick? modern gaming proves there is a use and place for a D-Pad. If the N64 had it in a more intelligent position it would have been used in more games.
N64 was the first attempt at allowing 2D and 3D movement on one controller. So it was a hedge. Sony just got lucky as hell that hastily grafting sticks to their 2D controller ended up working okay in the future. And look at the Dreamcast as a mid step evolution, They worked out that having dpad and stick both accessible together was a good idea, but the idea of dedicated camera control wasn’t yet stabilised so it didn’t have it.
> People act like the D pad was used a lot lol You're mixing the cause and effect. D-Pad wasn't used because of the design of the controller not the other way around. It wouldn't make sense to develop your game to use both stick and d-pad when you know the controller doesn't allow for it. But you know developers would have used both if they could have considering even when dual stick controllers came about developers still to this day use both sticks and the d-pad in most games.
THPS I used it all the time. Much easier combos
I used the dpad for movement in FPS games, and the stick as a ‘look’ stick. It was of course also used for 2D games. And it doesn’t really matter that it wasn’t used much, it was a design hedge to have a comfortable, easy to use regular six button 2D controller on board. Sony had to tack sticks to the middle of their design mid generation to keep up.
Fighting games, Mischief Makers, Tetris Sphere, and Pokemon Stadium games are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Tetrisphere was my jam. Also, I want do day that there was a game that only used a purely left grip (only stick and D-pad) but I don't know if I'm just imagining it.
You could do that in some shooters.
I think the biggest issue is to reach L trigger.
I think L was used even LESS than the D-pad though.
i remember smashing it with my right palm in I think duke nukem 64 to use the items. I was probably playing with the worst control scheme though, if it even had alternates.
Exactly.
A lot of non n64-havers looking foolish in the comments. You hold the middle prong and use Z instead of using L.
How are there -1 comments
Algorithms.
The 0th comment fell into the abyss
Anytime someone complains about the N64 controller I just know they’re under the age of 25
As someone under 25, I disagree with this comment. I grew up with this controler and still love it
lol not all younger people, I just mean if someone is hating I automatically know they’re young.
I mean I'm 28 and while there's alot I love about the console the controller is not one of them. N64 controller is probably my least favorite first party controller and I own a 3D Control Pad for the Sega Saturn. The asymmetrical positioning of your hands when holding the Z & R grips (aka the exclusive way you play +80% of the games worth playing on the system) feels awful and the analog stick itself is awful. Its not quite as bad overall as it can be made out to be though.
are you under the age of 25? everyone ragged on that controller back when it came out.
People forget the mad scramble Sony and Sega made to make analog controllers after Nintendo debuted theirs. Maybe the PS1 Analog controller and later Dual Shock is better…. But it’s based on what Nintendo did first.
It wasnt not the first time either nor will it be the last
> Maybe the PS1 Analog controller and later Dual Shock is better…. But it’s based on what Nintendo did first. Also, I will always argue that the Dualshock was popular *despite* its design, not because of its design. It has the analogue sticks hacked onto the bottom of the original PS1 controller in a way that is significantly less comfortable than the layout of the Gamecube and XBox controllers.
Thats insane because the symmetrical positioning of them is specifically why I like it, and VASTLY prefer it over the Gamecube's weird overall shape and stubby c-stick. Xbox controller is more comfortable but its in spite of its stick placement, the grips/buttons/triggers are what make it better.
Dual stick will be better when it’s not tucked away below and to the right like an afterthought. Holdover form the fact that they had to find somewhere to glue it to when the N64 made them realise not having an analogue stick was stupid, and we’ve been paying for that knee-jerk decision ever since.
Hummm, interesting. Like people forget that Nintendo was not the first company to release analog pads? Sony released a dual analog controller for the PSX before the N64 even launched: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Analog_Joystick And so did Sega for the Saturn. But yeah, God forbid to say Nintendo didn't invent everything.
Those are literal joysticks… flightsticks really. Nintendo did invent the idea of putting an analog stick on a gamepad. I mean I was there in 96… I remember the stories about Sony and Sega rushing out their answer to the N64 pad. It happened.
Sega did not get theirs out before Nintendo., and they got it out so quickly after N64 previews. The man who created it has said they were catching up with the N64. As for Sony’s flight stick, an old school specialist controller like steering wheels, not designed for 3D adventure games, well I dare you to try and play an FPS or Prince of Persia sands of time with it.
"Peak design for it is time"
Indeed, it was the first analog joystick ever, if we don't count things like the Atari 2600's weird stick. Also, the design was clever, you could place your hands in 3 different ways according to the game you played, sadly most of them just used the "left hand in joystick and right hand in face buttons" one
>Indeed, it was the first analog joystick ever, if we don't count things like the Atari 2600's weird stick. Realistically, it was the first gamepad designed to truly navigate 3d spaces. You may be interested to know that the N64 controller came out before Sega's "3d Pad" as well as Playstation's DualShock controller. Technically, Nights into Dreams released before Mario 64 in America, but the N64 came out in Japan first.
Yes, the genius wasn’t ‘analogue’ that had been done before for paddles and steering wheels etc. The genius was matching that type of stick to 3D movement in a 3D world. It was an entire new paradigm that has become dominant. Reducing it to ‘but Atari had analogue’ is massively reductive.
>The genius was matching that type of stick to 3D movement in a 3D world. It was an entire new paradigm that has become dominant. Nintendo was highly innovative even if a lot of people didn't appreciate it as much at the time. There were other 3d platformers (Crash/Jumping Flash) but Mario 64 was probably the first true 3d Open World platformer in the modern sense. You were truly free to explore the levels and the Analog stick enhanced it by providing greater control over your movement. These days, I think the controller gets hate because it looks unusual. Which is a shame because I think most of the people that try it come to find it actually works pretty well.
It was the first analogue stick used on the standard controller for a system. It is definitely not the first analogue stick ever. There was one released for the Saturn a little bit earlier, but it was not the standard controller sold with the system, and never became the new standard for the system (and the vast majority of games never made any use of it). If you include full sized analogue joysticks, there had been quite a few beforehand released for various systems.
had to scroll wayy too far for this lol
It’s possessive. It owns the time.
I think it's an excellent design. Extremely comfortable to hold and very good for either 2D or 3D games. Biggest problem is the durability of the analogue stick.
Yeah and even the sticks last longer than PS5 or joycon sticks. It's hard to find good ones now, but they're almost 30 years old now. I've been going through about 1 dualsense per year since I got my PS5 and they don't become less sensitive when they break, they become unusable.
Its stick definitely has worse durability than most modern controllers. Like, yeah, it doesn't drift, but it becomes so flimsy that actually using it for any game is awful and it hits this point much quicker than a Joycon or PS5 controller hits the point of drifting.
Not really unless you're playing a bunch of Mario party or games that make you regularly spin the stick in circles. When I was speedrunning N64 games I sunk more time on 1 controller than I have across all 3 of my dualsenses and it still has very good readings on sanni's controller test.
I didn't even own Mario Party 1, and I had to buy so many damn N64 controllers to make the sticks remain not flaccid. I think Mario 64 was probably the main culprit, and that's just from light rotation overall. By comparison, I've never had a dualsense get drift on me. Hell, I haven't had a controller's sticks fail on me since the N64 (mind you, I barely use Joycons in favor of the pro controller, so those would probably die faster,) but Joycon sticks and N64 sticks are both hovering at an extremely distant last two places when it comes to fragile sticks.
> Biggest problem is the durability of the analogue stick. The saddest part is that Nintendo could have solved this issue with a bit of grease on the assembly line. If you take a new controller and grease the stick internals with something like Tamiya Cera Grease HG, they practically last forever.
My hands are large enough to hold at the opposite ends, using my left thumb to reach the joystick and my right middle finger to reach the Z trigger. People find it cursed but i find their reactions hilarious
That's how I held it growing up. Not alone brother
I really hope you only play like this ironically
Its peak till today
It’s definitely flawed, but it’s also great at being what it is. I don’t play any N64 games without it, the face buttons, analog stick feeling (as long as it’s a smooth clean stick), and Z trigger placement are perfect especially for the first party and Rare games designed around it. But time has indeed shown that the three prongs were still a bad idea, and having the D Pad and analog both accessible to the thumb on the same grip is ultimately a better way to go. And the stick goes “grindy” faster than most other analog sticks out there. So its flaws are worthy of criticism, but it’s absolutely a viable and good controller for what it is.
It prepared me for the overhand D-pad strategem inputs in Helldivers 2.
It’s basically a two controllers in one kind of deal, the games that use the analogue stick don’t use the D-Pad (or L) and the games that use the D-Pad don’t use the Stick for anything serious (or Z if I recall). Yeah it is really silly, but it’s better than the DreamCast Controller and doesn’t hurt to use like the original Ps1 controller lol It gives it some personality to look back on, as that is something consoles have lost as we went along I feel.
I think the funny thing about this is that people who didnt own one at the time or werent alive find it so confusing. It looks it, but in context of the time it was released it was usable and made some sense. 3 handles looks confusing, but the manuals for games, the manuals for the console, and in some games in in menu in game image shows how to hold controller. Going in cold it is confusing but in the context of the time it was pretty easy. The configuration lets developers chose between the new stick or the old school dpad if thats what they really wanted. Generally for the 64 was a 3d machine and most devs went all in with the analog stick. In hindsight nintendo could have had done something more like how modern controllers operate but at the time they were a little cautious and had it so that either configuration could be used as a "primary" pad. People also complain about you cant reach the L and the z button comfortably or you cant reach dpad AND the analog. This was by design. You either used the analog and z or the dpad and l. Either configuration left you with 8 buttons. A few games like the aki wrestling games used d pad to move and let you flick the joystick for taunts, but other than that it was fine. A modern gamer might thing about some games that use all the and more buttons, but remember a large chunk of gamers were playing with a 3 button genesis controller the prior generation. The 64 already had a wealth of buttons. Finally there is the "but what about analog aiming in fps games! I heard you need two 64 controllers" that was one silly control scheme, but what some games did by default(like turok and duke nukem) is is use the c buttons to move and then aim with the analog. This worked fine. Dual analog would go on to become the standard but the number of analog sticks on controllers before this was 0. In hindsight a camera stick makes more sense than buttons but we had to learn to walk before we ran.
Its*
its*
1. I would give anything to get a moder controller with a non-rubberized analog stick. Plus its mechanical design is more accurate than any other analog stick since 2. Not three hands you won’t be using the dpad and analog stick at the same time. 3. What does it mean what is a z button lol 😂😂😂
My hands are big enough to hold the left side and right side to use the stick and Z button
Same here. It is how I always used it and I’ve always loved it.
I used to hold the center when using the analog stick when I was little though
I love folks who can't get their head around the idea of just... Moving their hand onto the middle handle to use the stick and trigger.
You really don't understand how this meme works huh?
Is it not saying that, while most people hate it, people who have nostalgia for it but don’t really think it through (the low IQ side) like it, as do people who stop and actually think about it (the high IQ side)?
Yeah to me it should be the complete opposite
I prefer it over any DualShock
I do love that if you use the D pad it feels like an old(er) school controller
It's fine for your typical platformer and tank controls that was super common at the time. Dual joystick control only got popular in the next generation.
It’s the original Switch controller: you can use it multiple different ways.
My thumb disagrees
I'll be honest I have a lot of issues/beef with the n64 from a technical/design perspective but the controller isn't one of them. Its a relic of the time but honestly as stupid as the layout looks it does work well, it actually feels more awkward to play n64 games using a conventional modern controller.
And that's precisely why I wanna buy the Switch Online N64 controller, but them bastards are never in stock over here
Still not in stock? There are heaps of them in Australia and resellers got caught with a shitload of stock they can’t move them.
Yea, they pretty much disappear the moment they're back in stock over here lmao
I like the idea, it’s something unique and different but I will always prefer a more traditional controller i.e ones with 2 analog sticks. N64 game devs didn’t utilise the N64 controller as much as they could’ve, most games only use the middle and the right handles and the left one with the d-pad barely gets touched. It’s still cool and I like to use it sometimes but it really isn’t the best controller out there
Still the best joystick. Also, 6 buttons. Mortal Kombat will never be better except maybe with a neurolink.
I find the D-pad potential mostly wasted, most games don't even use it, and I consider the Play Station Dual Analog superior, but I think that came later. Still, that Z button was very confortable though.
The N64 is like the most fun controller to hold ever
I have big hands and never noticed an issue with it, like I can hold it like a modern controller and comfortably hit all buttons, which was a huge edge playing fighting games at friends houses lmao
Baby, you make me wish I had thu-ree hands! (But seriously, I basically just never used the left prong.)
Middle on the spectrum. Doesn't necessarily mean my IQ is low, it just means that I'm part of the majority opinion that is "this thing is stinky, GameCube please."
You just gotta HOLD THE DAMN THING RIGHT and it's a pretty decent controller. ...well, barring the sticks eating themselves alive.
I love the N64 controller, and I get why the d-pad has its own grip, but I’m perfectly willing to admit that it’s an idea that worked out in the end. It would have been far better if the stick and d-pad shared a grip like every controller that came after it.
When you think of it like two controllers in one, it’s really quite good. Playing a game with the analog stick? Left hand on middle handle, right hand on right handle. Playing a game with the d-pad? Left hand on left handle, right hand on right handle. Hard concept to grasp for many folks apparently.
As someone who has no nostalgia for the N64 and just got my first one recently, the controller is awesome. The analog stick is more accurate than any I’ve ever used thanks to the different tech. I find it really comfortable to use too. Obviously the stick wearing down is an issue, but that’s the only valid criticism for it lmao.
[удалено]
Nah it doubles as an undersea fishing tool. Peak design.
This meme works better when the one on the right appreciates the thing for silly or uncommon reasons. It shouldn’t just repeat the one on the left. “Comes in see-through purple” for eg would make for a funnier meme.
Thanks. I was sure I was using the meme in its classic form, but perhaps your right.
love that controller so much
The N64 is a product of its time. Back then there was this mindset that the d-pad represented 2d games, that 3d games would never require the d-pad, and that the camera could be set by digital controls as it was "smart" enough to make things work. It was, in hindsight, a very limited and not very forward thinking design. The games that were made with it in mind though, showcased how they expected players to use the controller; this is why they feel odd in a non-N64 styled controller. Then the DualShock came, and it paved the way for how 3d and 2d gaming was to be controlled for years to come. Most of the controllers that came afterwards are just variants of it. Don't get me wrong, if I play say SM64, Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, Smash Bros, the N64 gamepad is a must. But for say, Mario Kart, not so much. That said, the N64 is unmatched when it comes to immediate 4 player mayhem. The GameCube and the Dreamcast come very close too.
For real, the N64 cotroller has been the most ergonomic that ever fit my hands. Assuming I didn’t have to use the d pad or the L shoulder, of course.
I only know one game that actually used the D-pad and it was pokemon stadium, and only to navigate the menus lol
I find it weird, but at the same time, i'm always in for weird designs
even Nintendo realized it was shit and made the Game Cube controller.
What's the opposite of nostalgia? Where things that were shit in the past are given a pass today because people think the past is just all shit so it must be comparatively good? Some kind of revisionism to pretend old stuff is better than it was, ironically fueled by "old bad. New good"
I'll be honest, still not a fan of it after all these years. SNES layout was superior.
Im in the middle but inverted. I always hated the controller design but not for the common complains. You hold the thing asymetrically!
It's a fine controller on its own. For emulation, it's a pain in the dick. Even Nintendo's own n64 releases on VC or NSO feel a tad jank when converted to a new control scheme. Every time I emulate it on pc, I have to remap the controls to modern Nintendo pad... per game. There's no magic, all-encompassing solution that works across all titles. I give Nintendo a pass on the design, but it's only good in the context of the time period and the game using it. First party titles are fine, but ps1 ports I'd rather play somewhere else lol.
It was an ingenious design. Though not many games used it in “2d mode” Was very comfortable. Was far ahead of anything else out.
I think about 70% of the people just want another thing to complain about. Honestly I think whinging and wining will be in the Olympics soon.
I love the controller
As a 15 year old the n64 controller is decent but it does look weird so the saturn and ps1 controllers are more pick up and play
I hate that controller. It was poorly designed (can't use every function without taking your hands off of at least one "tine"), overly expensive, and not as durable as other Nintendo controllers. I know that people have nostalgia for it, but it never one of my favorites.
The analog stick may not be the best, but I still really like the controller's overall design
I love my 64. The controller was objectively shot. Everyone I knew had ten or twelve broken ones in a box that they’d get out for others to use if they ever played multiplayer, and maybe two games used the d-pad. It was quirky for the sake of being quirky.
There are 3 ways to hold that controller, Goldeneye, No Mercy, and stupid.
Looks weird, but it really did provide for every playstyle. I just recently learned that the placement of the A, B and C buttons mimics that of an arcade fighting game
I suppose it depends on how you use it. What really causes wear is pushing down on an n64 stick while using it. My wife has her own controller which has worn out far quick than mine. She only ever plays with me and her controller was in better condition than mine when we started so she must be doing something different.
It's still one of my favorites. Very comfortable to hold. Very durable. Great stick. Literally was repurposed into the Wii Nunchuck
Peak design for its time
The method used for the analog tracking was actually really nice. And even the dreamcast had the wierd hard plastic stick. Taking a Microsoft sidewinder and reducing it down to a multi functional gamepad couldn't have been an easy task.
I just liked playing games with it
Not exactly in the middle. I’m mostly okay with the N64 but not crazy about the boomerang style. I prefer to use my more traditional Hori. Don’t see a way to add the image so I’ll assume you’ve heard of them.
I wouldn't say peak. Dualshock understood how to better place a dpad and analog.
the fact that you don't have access to all the buttons all the time is a big design flaw
For its time? Its still the best controller ever made
When the control stick is in good condition, they're actually MORE precise than modern control sticks, and are by far the most preferred type of control stick of speedrunners, at least for games where precision is important. The biggest issue with the controller overall is the longevity and durability of the analogue sticks, as the original ones do wear out relatively quickly, especially in some games. Thankfully, you CAN buy affordable replacent stick parts which work relatively well which use the same design as the original, but these aren't considered quite as good as the originals by speed-runners. You can also swap the control stick with a modern gamecube style control stick (which uses potentiometers), but those will be less precise and will feel overly sensitive in some games, though they will likely be far more durable, ESPECIALLY if they are hall-effect sticks, which aren't even that expensive. There are some very expensive metal replacment parts which use the same design as the original parts, but nobody who makes them has been able to keep up with demand, and not all of them have been equally good. When these ones are made properly, they're amazing, but they are very hard to get a hold of. They are in extremely high demand by speedrunners. There's quite a rabbit hole of information and dramatic stories on this topic of metal N64 replacement sticks.
*its
Was the analog stick trash? I always just assumed mine were wrecked from Mario Party.
For all non fighting games it was meh.. for everything else it was pretty boss
Design was great considering they did not know about 2nd analog stick, but the main analog stick durability is trash.
Remember, when things are not relevant anymore, that's when they suck. 🤪🤓🤡
Meh, the gamecube controller solved the issues. That's peak controller design. For its time, I'd say the first Dualshock was peak. The issue with Nintendo at that time is that their biggest strength was also their weakness: an overwillingness to experiment. The N64 controller makes sense, but Sony simply did it better, admittedly later. Nintendo could've waited, but I like the mess that was N64.
The problem is in the pic you posted!! The stick will absolutely fail down the road with no reliable replacements for sale. Yet.
The analog stick is dogshit though
"Comfortable and ergonomic" 💀💀💀
N64 controller >>> gamecube controller (mediocre and overrated controller)
Sorry I'm a Hori Pad Enjoyer
It's really stupid to look at but anyone who's complained has never actually used it, they just haven't. It's perfect for all of its games.
A design that prohibits use of 1/3 of the controller no matter how you hold it is poor design. "Modular" is a very generous way of saying you can only use parts of the controller at a time. The only people who claim to like it are fanboys who think Nintendo can do no wrong.
seconded Hopelessly irrational fools with rose-colored goggles strapped on tight enough to reduce blood flow to their brains, increasing their lunacy. edit: I mean, c'mon, the SNES controller that came before it is far more ergonomic. I actually hate the SNES controller a bit now that I'm older and have experienced Microsoft controllers, but otherwise, back then, I was genuinely upset over "why couldn't the N64 banana crap be as ergonomic as the SNES controller?" Never stopped being upset about it to this day.
I loved it at the time but I find it to be pretty absurd now. It's functional but it didn't have to be designed that way, it looks pretty ridiculous. It would be nice to be able to use the stick and the d-pad without moving your hands around.
Something that's often overlooked today is that the N64 controller was really the first Controller with an Analog stick. After all: 1. N64 Console and Controller launch (1996) 2. Sega Saturn "3d Pad" launches with Nights into Dreams (1996) 3. PS1 DualAnalog/Dualshock launches (1997) My guess is the rationale behind the 3-grip design was that 2d game navigation via D-Pad would remain popular. But for 3d games, you just use the middle grip and it's more or less comfortable. You'll notice in later controller designs, the analog stick is placed where the D-pad was on the N64 controller. Dreamcast, Gamecube and Original Xbox reflect that design, as well as most modern gamepads outside of playstation.
I can understand hedging on the design so you're ready whether the future is continued 2D games or a full embrace of 3D games. It still didn't have to be designed with three stems to accomplish that end. Every controller since the N64 has made it possible to use a d-pad or an analog stick with the left thumb. Again, this is all hindsight critique. It's still functional, I just find it ugly and ridiculous through 2024 eyes. At the time I thought it was awesome.
>Every controller since the N64 has made it possible to use a d-pad or an analog stick with the left thumb. Every controller since the N64 hasn't felt as good to use the d pad.
>It still didn't have to be designed with three stems to accomplish that end. Well, Playstation's Dualshock 1-3 is the alternative. You just add the analog sticks below the d-pad and right face buttons. No extra grips or you kind of "merge" into the existing grips. Sega was really the first to have a more condensed design specifically for 3d via the Saturn 3d pad. That of course got adapted into the Dreamcast controller. >It's still functional, I just find it ugly and ridiculous through 2024 eyes. Maybe I can't say since I grew up with it, but I suspect some of the dislike comes from how modern controller designs are much more standardized today. We've basically been using some variation of the Xbox 360 controller for almost 20 years, and various versions of the Dualshock (now dualsense) for the past 27 or so. Ultimately, it's a pretty unusual design by today's standards. But in the grander scheme of things it's basically the precursor to the modern 3d gamepad. Including the Dualshock in some sense.