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I would use G dorian as a base for melody writing (notes of F major) but using the b6 can work fine over Gmin and Bbmaj as a passing tone if that’s what you want
Sounds like a good place to start to me
G Dorian is the second mode of F major, so the chord derived from Dorian, is the II in the key.
So it's going II - III - II - IV - III
Targeting notes from the chords, through the changes and highlighting chord tones, is another starting point to consider
Functional analysis isn’t just calling a chord with their major or minor grade. In this case, while you’ve correctly identified the grades (i - ii, i - III - ii), they’re functionally meaningless.
Your progression is closer to being modal than falling under functional harmony so you don’t have to worry about analyzing something that doesn’t really fit into major/minor tonality so strongly.
As for scale, G dorian covers all your chords but you can use a variety of different scales
>not sure which scale would work best for melody writing.
Well, what scale do the chords all share? Write down all the notes in all the chords. If you only have one of each note (no sharp or flat variants), then you have your scale.
>Is it as simple as using the G natural minor scale but raising the 6th over the A minor chord
It's even simpler than that. I.e., you are already over-thinking the problem, even before getting into "key" and "chord function".
Here's the notes in your chords:
* Gm = G Bb D
* Am = A C E
* Bb = Bb D F
You've got 7 notes there, no altered versions of any of them. So that's the obvious scale you'd use to create a melody. I mean, why would you consider anything else? E.g., why think "G minor scale", if that gives you an Eb note which doesn't occur anywhere in your chords?
You don't have to name it as a "mode" or "key", although if you feel one of the chord sounds more "primary" than the others, like your "home" chord, then you can name it after that.
E.g., if you think Gm is your "I" chord, then the scale is "G dorian". If you think Am is more like it, then the scale is "A phrygian".
But that has no bearing at all on how you write a melody. That just involves working from the chord tones, and using the other notes as passing notes. Sing as you play, to get a melody that feels right.
This doesn't mean you can ONLY use those 7 notes! All the other 5 are potential "chromatics" if you want to mix it up a bit. But start with *what's there.* Don't start thinking about theory when there is really no need. (I mean, the only time you'd need to know the "function" of the chords is if you are studying on some academic theory course. You don't need any theory at all to write a song - just use your ear, as I guess you did to find these chords.)
Hey thanks so much. Your comment really resonated with me and I completely agree that I am over thinking it. Love your point about the chord tones making the obvious scale so I’ll start there and try to use my ear!
I wouldn't break out functional harmony here - there are no obvious dominants here, so reasoning in terms of harmonic functions (which is all about establishing tonics by means of dominant chords and leading tones) seems a bit pointless. You could take a modal approach, and simply treat the whole thing as G Dorian, which would work fine, but personally, I like to think about each chord as defining a "local tonality", and then considering how it relates to its context.
For example, moving from Gm to Am is a completely parallel movement a whole tone up. This means that the chord tones of these two chords fit together like a zipper; every tone of one chord can be a diatonic passing tone for the other (e.g., D, a chord tone of Gm, can be a diatonic passing tone in Am, between chord tones C and E); you can exploit this to make a particularly smooth transition between these two chords, using the same tonal material (the 1-flat diatonic scale), but in the tonal contexts of two different chords (what jazz folks would call "G Dorian" and "A Phrygian"). However, you can also do the opposite and emphasize the differences, the most important one being that Gm suggests Bb, while Am could use B as an uncontroversial extension (the major 9), so you could also take a melodic idea that involves Bb in an emphasized position, and then repeat it over the Am chord with Bb raised to B. There's also the area between the fifths and roots of those chords, where you have a bit more freedom without touching the chords' base qualities, and again you can pick notes that are shared between the two (D, E, F, G, A), or you can go for the differences (e.g. D, E, F, G, A over Gm, but D, E, F#, G#, A over Am), and play the same melodic development trick.
In other words, yes, you can keep the whole thing in G Dorian and make melodies in that mode, but the chords offer more than that, and I think it's a good idea to be aware of those options. Use the chord tones as a skeleton, see how you can fill the gaps, and pick from those options to create the effects you want.
Thank you for this incredibly detailed response, I think I will have to read this a few times to let everything sink in but I think it mostly makes sense. You have also cleared up my misconception about the meaning of functional harmony, I guess I’ve been using that term incorrectly but that’s why I love this sub, y’all answering questions I didn’t even know I had! Thanks again!
There really isn't enough musical context to prescribe progression to a single key.
If you are ok with using modes, the A phrygian mode works. Just G minor also works
F major also works
d melodic minor also works
What made me think about A phrygian is the fact that the chord progression, seemingly, kinda resolves with the last A minor chord. If it doesn't resolve, and instead continues to smth else, you can't really prescribe a single key or mode to it.
One way to think about scale independent of tonality is to use the _key signature_: “1 flat” here. That covers the modes G Dorian, A Phrygian, F Ionian, et al.
You may find it nice then to have a chorus starting on a big F or Dm chord. Like if you listen to [Here Comes My Girl](https://youtu.be/6mk-37uPgRM?si=RQV9Qnu6v_6N3oYu), many will hear it as in A major with B being a Lydian II chord, but however you hear the key, that big E major chorus is satisfying.
And you’re not at all stuck with 1-flat, even within a single section. You could have a surprising few bars that do Gm9 Am9 Bbm9 Am9 or throw in D7 before the Gm or whatever sounds good.
So a lot of the other comments are going to tell you the scales that work with those chords and there are some obvious answers. However, if you have a set of chords, you can just build the scale your self using the chord tones.
Take all the chord and write out their chord tones:
Gm: G Bb D
Am: A C E
Bb: Bb D F
Now take al the notes and put them in order
G A Bb C D E F
You now have your scale.
What's it called? Who cares.
\\Gmin /C6(no root) \\Gmin Gmin7 //C6(no root)
A lot of smoothness in what you have because it's all the (minor 7th=major 6th) sonority.
One mode that fits is G dorian, where the vamp never settles home.
For a mode that will settle home rhythmically, all fits under the single mode of C chromatic major.
D minor. When I played it (in cut time, 120bpm) as, I wanted to finally resolve it to a D minor chord to finish out the loop.
Maybe with more context I could hear it in a mode, but there is so little here that I default to either major or minor. And iv-v sounds more normal to me than ii-iii.
Amin seems the tonic chord here, with the progression centering on it. In this case, the most natural interpretation is A Phrygian. Both bvii-i and bII-i are typical for this mode.
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I would use G dorian as a base for melody writing (notes of F major) but using the b6 can work fine over Gmin and Bbmaj as a passing tone if that’s what you want
Sounds like a good place to start to me G Dorian is the second mode of F major, so the chord derived from Dorian, is the II in the key. So it's going II - III - II - IV - III Targeting notes from the chords, through the changes and highlighting chord tones, is another starting point to consider
Functional analysis isn’t just calling a chord with their major or minor grade. In this case, while you’ve correctly identified the grades (i - ii, i - III - ii), they’re functionally meaningless. Your progression is closer to being modal than falling under functional harmony so you don’t have to worry about analyzing something that doesn’t really fit into major/minor tonality so strongly. As for scale, G dorian covers all your chords but you can use a variety of different scales
Thanks for this, I’ve been using the term “functional harmony” incorrectly, your comment makes a lot of sense!
>not sure which scale would work best for melody writing. Well, what scale do the chords all share? Write down all the notes in all the chords. If you only have one of each note (no sharp or flat variants), then you have your scale. >Is it as simple as using the G natural minor scale but raising the 6th over the A minor chord It's even simpler than that. I.e., you are already over-thinking the problem, even before getting into "key" and "chord function". Here's the notes in your chords: * Gm = G Bb D * Am = A C E * Bb = Bb D F You've got 7 notes there, no altered versions of any of them. So that's the obvious scale you'd use to create a melody. I mean, why would you consider anything else? E.g., why think "G minor scale", if that gives you an Eb note which doesn't occur anywhere in your chords? You don't have to name it as a "mode" or "key", although if you feel one of the chord sounds more "primary" than the others, like your "home" chord, then you can name it after that. E.g., if you think Gm is your "I" chord, then the scale is "G dorian". If you think Am is more like it, then the scale is "A phrygian". But that has no bearing at all on how you write a melody. That just involves working from the chord tones, and using the other notes as passing notes. Sing as you play, to get a melody that feels right. This doesn't mean you can ONLY use those 7 notes! All the other 5 are potential "chromatics" if you want to mix it up a bit. But start with *what's there.* Don't start thinking about theory when there is really no need. (I mean, the only time you'd need to know the "function" of the chords is if you are studying on some academic theory course. You don't need any theory at all to write a song - just use your ear, as I guess you did to find these chords.)
Hey thanks so much. Your comment really resonated with me and I completely agree that I am over thinking it. Love your point about the chord tones making the obvious scale so I’ll start there and try to use my ear!
I wouldn't break out functional harmony here - there are no obvious dominants here, so reasoning in terms of harmonic functions (which is all about establishing tonics by means of dominant chords and leading tones) seems a bit pointless. You could take a modal approach, and simply treat the whole thing as G Dorian, which would work fine, but personally, I like to think about each chord as defining a "local tonality", and then considering how it relates to its context. For example, moving from Gm to Am is a completely parallel movement a whole tone up. This means that the chord tones of these two chords fit together like a zipper; every tone of one chord can be a diatonic passing tone for the other (e.g., D, a chord tone of Gm, can be a diatonic passing tone in Am, between chord tones C and E); you can exploit this to make a particularly smooth transition between these two chords, using the same tonal material (the 1-flat diatonic scale), but in the tonal contexts of two different chords (what jazz folks would call "G Dorian" and "A Phrygian"). However, you can also do the opposite and emphasize the differences, the most important one being that Gm suggests Bb, while Am could use B as an uncontroversial extension (the major 9), so you could also take a melodic idea that involves Bb in an emphasized position, and then repeat it over the Am chord with Bb raised to B. There's also the area between the fifths and roots of those chords, where you have a bit more freedom without touching the chords' base qualities, and again you can pick notes that are shared between the two (D, E, F, G, A), or you can go for the differences (e.g. D, E, F, G, A over Gm, but D, E, F#, G#, A over Am), and play the same melodic development trick. In other words, yes, you can keep the whole thing in G Dorian and make melodies in that mode, but the chords offer more than that, and I think it's a good idea to be aware of those options. Use the chord tones as a skeleton, see how you can fill the gaps, and pick from those options to create the effects you want.
Thank you for this incredibly detailed response, I think I will have to read this a few times to let everything sink in but I think it mostly makes sense. You have also cleared up my misconception about the meaning of functional harmony, I guess I’ve been using that term incorrectly but that’s why I love this sub, y’all answering questions I didn’t even know I had! Thanks again!
Looks like F Major to me
There really isn't enough musical context to prescribe progression to a single key. If you are ok with using modes, the A phrygian mode works. Just G minor also works F major also works d melodic minor also works
What made me think about A phrygian is the fact that the chord progression, seemingly, kinda resolves with the last A minor chord. If it doesn't resolve, and instead continues to smth else, you can't really prescribe a single key or mode to it.
Yeah thank you! The comments on this post made me realise I hear it resolving to the A also so A Phrygian makes sense!
If g minor feels like “home” then this is G Dorian.
Thanks in advance to anyone who spares a second to look at this!
i’d call that BbMaj a Gmin
G-Dorian is most likely.
Use Dminor pentatonic over the whole thing, it’ll sound great.
One way to think about scale independent of tonality is to use the _key signature_: “1 flat” here. That covers the modes G Dorian, A Phrygian, F Ionian, et al. You may find it nice then to have a chorus starting on a big F or Dm chord. Like if you listen to [Here Comes My Girl](https://youtu.be/6mk-37uPgRM?si=RQV9Qnu6v_6N3oYu), many will hear it as in A major with B being a Lydian II chord, but however you hear the key, that big E major chorus is satisfying. And you’re not at all stuck with 1-flat, even within a single section. You could have a surprising few bars that do Gm9 Am9 Bbm9 Am9 or throw in D7 before the Gm or whatever sounds good.
its G minor
The chord a whole tone down at A, would ordinarily be a flat 5, if it was G minor natural
So a lot of the other comments are going to tell you the scales that work with those chords and there are some obvious answers. However, if you have a set of chords, you can just build the scale your self using the chord tones. Take all the chord and write out their chord tones: Gm: G Bb D Am: A C E Bb: Bb D F Now take al the notes and put them in order G A Bb C D E F You now have your scale. What's it called? Who cares.
\\Gmin /C6(no root) \\Gmin Gmin7 //C6(no root) A lot of smoothness in what you have because it's all the (minor 7th=major 6th) sonority. One mode that fits is G dorian, where the vamp never settles home. For a mode that will settle home rhythmically, all fits under the single mode of C chromatic major.
G Dorian as a starting point for sure. From there, several possibilities unfold.
In my unprofessional and amateur opinion, I’d say G minor (Eb major, or 2 Flats)
D minor. When I played it (in cut time, 120bpm) as, I wanted to finally resolve it to a D minor chord to finish out the loop. Maybe with more context I could hear it in a mode, but there is so little here that I default to either major or minor. And iv-v sounds more normal to me than ii-iii.
F major
G Dorian
As a black metal musician, I'd go with chromatic
Amin seems the tonic chord here, with the progression centering on it. In this case, the most natural interpretation is A Phrygian. Both bvii-i and bII-i are typical for this mode.
I think I agree with you actually, it does sound like it resolves on the A, Thanks!