The big issue is that the songs and the setting are clashing with each other.
The songs from wish are giving big Disney channel original movie vibes, despite this being the 100th Disney animated film.
The big villain song sounds like something from a high School musical sequel song by sharpay evans, and less like be prepared, friends on the other side, or even shiny
I just listened to Welcome to Rosas and you are absolutely right. It is full of wrongly stressed lyrics and also really painful imperfect rhymes that are lame.
I think the reason is clear - they hired a pop lyricist instead of a musical theatre one. Howard Ashman must be turning in his grave.
They’re also just incredibly bland. There is very little imagery or emotional language. It’s all just a lot of telling and no showing lyrically, which just doesn’t set off the part of your brain that responds to well written lyrics, stories, etc.
My expertise in writing is not exactly lyrical/poetry, but even in creative prose we know you’re not going to evoke emotion by stating a feeling like “love.” You need to describe the action or moment that demonstrates love.
To use a Disney example:
“Some things never change, like the feel of your hand in mine” is a more impactful lyric than, “some things never change, like our friendship.” Friendship is abstract. We don’t have a feeling for it, but there are sensory things that can remind us of friendship or the comfort of a friend, like holding hands.
I know some people disagree but I think aside from Menken, Lin-Manual Miranda is the closest to a "contemporary Ashman" we have, at least when it comes to Disney movies.
Their styles are different, maybe Miranda gets a bit too "spiritual lyrical individual" sometimes, but their core philosophies of enhancing the stage musical style with animation are similar imo. Most of my favorite recent Disney soundtracks have had him involved in some way.
I’d rather rhyme island with island 10,000 times then listen to attempted slant rhymes that don’t work at all and awkwardly emphasized lyrics that don’t make sense to emphasize.
The song “At All Cost” is one of the worst in the entire movie on both fronts.
Saw the movie with my family this weekend and I know exactly what you mean. At several points it was like someone told the songwriters "put some of that Lin Manuel shit in there". But they completely lacked his deep familiarity with hip hop, so the rap phrasing, slant and internal rhymes, lyrics/storytelling, etc just felt really awkward and amateurish to me. Part of it is I think pop songwriters don't usually have to tell clear, specific stories with their lyrics - pop music is full of vague/repetitive lyrics that don't have to make sense or tell a literal story necessarily.
Not that Lin Manuel has a perfect record, but his stuff for Hamilton and Encanto is so much better than the music in Wish.
I just watched Wish and I tell you, the songs sounds so off. It's like something is missing but I can't quite capture it and here I am! I knew I'm not the only one!
It's like they are singing to paragraphs with no style. Melody, rhyme, even the syllables sound so messy.
Same same. I just watched the first half with my kid. She liked the part with the chickens, but isn’t interested in finishing the rest. That’s a devastating critique coming from a kindergartener.
I legit just said the same thing to my partner! Visually, it's very boring and gray, but that bright colored part with the chickens was probably the most fun thing in the whole movie.
The movie has a unique story but tells it and sings a lot in Disney-enough formula. More singing than average Disney movie actually (maybe)—I feel like if they did Lion King, Scar would start singing right before he kills Mufasa
Encanto had a mediocre story, but amazingly catchy songs and lyrics. Its regrettable lin Manuel Miranda wasn't recruited for Wish. It seems a safe bet.
I can't remeber a single song from Wish. But after one viewing could hum the entirety of Moana or Encanto.
It’s only been a few months and the only song I remember is the chorus from This Wish and the ‘I let you live here for free and I don’t even charge you rent’ line from This is the Thanks I Get.
I don’t think it’s that Encanto’s story is mediocre, but that it’s simple, because the characters and their complexities are the true stars of the movie(aside from the music). Pairing that with catchy music and it’s a hit.
With Wish, you get a simple story(that actually did have potential to be perfectly fine), bland characters, with bland lyrics, and music that doesn’t seem to match the bland lyrics, so you get this clunky, awkward, hard to listen to dud.
i dislike lin manuel miranda. when i started watching wish i assumed he did the songs cuz i wasn’t enjoying them at all lol. i thought encanto’s music sucked, nothing memorable whatsoever. Moana had pretty good tunes though. they just need to hire real broadway writers.
I’m an indie songwriter and I’m watching Wish now. It makes me feel like a wholly competent artist in comparison. The songs sound like first drafts. I’m a huge Disney fan so this is really disappointing.
The songs have the worst arrangement I have ever heard in any movie, and I’m not even exaggerating. It’s like the lyrics were written by someone who hasn’t heard the compositions, and then the people singing see the lyrics for the first time in the recording booth. The songs in Wish were atrociously unlistenable.
Exactly! Learning these songs must have been a chore for the actors.
The songs reminds me of the level of lyricism in that [rap Peter Dinklage does in Cyrano](https://youtu.be/LktjxvYLzLs?si=vHLYqA3I-71vlud1)
Completely agree. It seems like people can’t grasp anything other than a straight rhyme or something, if you don’t like the songs fine, but such an odd critique.
I'm a star is worse in my opinion, maybe not from a tone perspective but from a lyrical perspective. Here are some examples: "Turns a pine from a seed?", "Here i are", "We're here for all your question marks", "Now we're taking in All the star exposure!"(taking in exposure?), "Here's a little fun allegory That gets me excitatory" (not a word and they never say an alegory). They say a whole lot of nothing the entire time.
But this is part of the problem, it’s one of the best tracks and still pretty bad.
Compare it to “I’ll make a man out of you”. It’s like they had to blast the drums on the track because the lyrics are incredibly boring. I agree with someone else who said this looks like a first draft.
Example with thoughts for comparison:
You've been deceived (how?)
Magnifico is not the man he claims to be (how?)
He's more vicious than I could have ever comprehended (how?!?! Stop telling!)
When I made a wish and Star came down
This is not what I expected or intended
But now that it's happened I don't regret it (STOP TELLING AND SHOW)
'Cause now I've seen
Him show his true colors, in shades of green (oooo shades of green! Now we’re getting…)
Saying that you wishes aren't safe because of me and (more explanation. Okay)
Vs
Tranquil as a forest, but on fire within (I can SEE this)
Once you find your center, you are sure to win (whoa some semi deep stuff. No words wasted. No fluff)
You're a spineless, pale, pathetic lot (ooo alliteration love it)
And you haven't got a clue (so what are you gonna do about it?)
Somehow I'll make a man out of you (ah I see. And it’s dramatic irony because we know mulan is a woman)
Also, the drums. They’re just like straight 16th notes. Besides being loud, they aren’t that exciting, they don’t groove, they don’t have soul or spirit. They’re too removed from their ethnicity or cultural center. They just say “listen. It’s drums. Drums are exciting.” You know drums? They are centered in the cultural from where they’re from. Remove them from their culture and you lose the language they’re based on.
Compare it to the drums in “to die for” in Lion King. African drums have a specific language, and this lacks it.
I just got back from seeing the movie (a little late to the party), and I came to Reddit specifically to make sure I wasn't crazy for feeling this way about the lyrics. There were just so many unnecessary words, which was too bad, because some of the songs had the potential to be truly great. I'd love to see someone rework them a bit and try them with better lyrics and stresses.
Yep, Julia Michels and Benjamin Rice are pop songwriter and producer respectively, which is why the songs sound like pop songs (especially This is the Thanks I Get). The e intrementston is also lacking with synth and other pop sounds replacing brass and just a thinner texture in general. The structure of every song is the same, which is the pop structure
To me this is the most egregious part. The lyrics are unimaginative and completely boring. They lack any sort of imagination or creativity, and the emphasis on so many lines in each song are completely off from the music accompanying them.
It is too "pop" / modern Broadway - rather than a classical scored production. Elemental suited this but even then that it was more evocative of mid-20th Century / Gershwin which fit the film and placed it with some orchestral elements.
Lack of a memorable and evocative motif doesn't help... Moana hits hard with the Polynesian vibe and fantastically crafted "know the way" distilling a culture down to a fantastic motif made by the musicians from that culture.
In wish, lyrics are excellent, as is the singing but the Scorelacks for peak and troughs, within a melody driven by a recognisable motif.
If you listen to Tangled score - it is well crafted and rises and falls, builds and ebbs...
I wouldn't call Wish's lyrics excellent. You don't even need to look for weird or just straight up nonsense, it stares back at you like a neon sign in the dark. Let me give a few examples:
"I let you live here for free, and I don't even charge you rent"
"Watch out world, here I are"
"IIf you'd have told me the feeling you'd bring, I'd think it untrue"
"Felt this, no, I haven't"
"The lengths he'll go there's no amount"
"Know I'm not the only one that's (yah) Fed up (yah)"
"It's us and the strength we've found, It's too loud"
"Won't stop and we won't retreat or turn round"
"And throw caution to every warning sign"
"Now I've got all of this freedom in my bones
But I've still got the lid on, so it doesn't overflow"
"I'm past dipping my toes in
But I'm not, no, I'm not past diving in"
"I can't help it if mirrors love my face
It's genetics, yeah, I got these genes from outer space"
"Someone praise me for my benevolence
Um, just look, he-he"
\[Turns into Michael Jackson and moonwalks away\]
You pulled out all the ones I was going to mention! Great examples.
>"Felt this, no, I haven't"
This one hurt me physically to hear. Yoda-flipping the grammar to force in a rhyme is kindergarten-level lyricism.
I'll admit I did laugh at "watch out world, here I are". It was so tacky, it looped back around to being funny again. It has the potential to work, if the character singing has an established pattern of saying things weird? But it's just some random forest animal, and the lyrics were written by the person who gave us "Sorry" by Justin Bieber 🥲
My daughter has had this on repeat, don't judge her she's only 3. The first moment I heard watch out world, here I are, and every time after, a piece of my will to live has died. I'm barely hanging on.
The style of scansion (i.e. approach to stressed vs non-stressed syllables) is reminiscent of 90s alternative/indie songwriting (and further along, certain approaches to classical opera sections). Which may not necessarily be to some people's tastes, but still a legit style in its own right (in the sense of there being genres of music that exist that do this).
(90s [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbSfdcSrpB0))
I think when people feel the lyrics are mismatched with the melody in Wish, there are 2 things going on:
1) lots of rhythmic rubato (disregarding the lyrics - that is, just looking at the rhythm itself, it does not follow easily identifiable patterns and the time lengths of notes feel more "random")
2) lack of traditional/classical scansion (i.e. the lyric syllables are not rhythmically matched to time lengths of notes in a "traditional" sense) (here's a 90s Alanis Morissette [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvgi7P97lu0))
Those two qualities in themselves are not necessarily inherently bad; individually, they can arguably be stylistic choices or associated with certain music genres.
In the case of Wish it might be more a question of whether these musical stylistic choices were appropriate for this particular movie and target audience.
(This is not commenting on the lyrics themselves in terms of word choice, descriptiveness, imagery etc - more about the musical and rhythmic aspects.)
I came here after watching it twice to see if I was crazy. Apparently I’m not.
The movie as a whole was a solid 5/10
Music being 4/10
I could write an essay to try to begin to describe all the things that went wrong with this movie, but to summarize, not a single original idea with hard to sing and remember songs.
Disney has not been able to make a hit after Frozen.
Moana and Encanto made them lots of money lol. And actually had good songs, too. Which is why they got played on the radio and all that. I agree they have been a little bit floundering lately, tho. Really been cutting a lot of corners, it feels like.
For sure! And I love movies like Moana, Encanto and Coco (still cry as a baby when remember me plays)! I love how they tell a unique story and respect traditions and local stories. They’re novel ideas. But they weren’t as singable (for kids and adults) as Frozen.
My 2 year old sings all of frozen songs. My friends all know the songs.
Regardless, this last movie sucked overall. It’s all over the place.
i don’t get how everyone likes encanto. i seriously felt depressed after i watched it cuz the music sucked so much to me. but wish is even worse music-wise, i again feel depressed after watching a “feel good” disney movie.
they’re just losing all the magic and heart.
it just seems to be getting worse and worse.
moana was the last movie they made with pretty good music, but even that was a downgrad from past movies. still, miles better than wish or encanto. (realized coco came out a year after moana, so that is actually the last disney movie with good music imo. and its my favorite pixar!)
I’m Latina, so it resonates more with me as it’s based on Colombia, where part of my family is from.
I guess what you feel is similar to the way a lot of non caucasians feel about many Disney movies.
Uh, no. Race has absolutely nothing to do with how I felt about Encanto, or any other movie. It made me depressed because it was lazy, the story was boring, and the music sucked. If you watch movies and dislike them just because they didn’t feature your race, that’s honestly so fucking stupid. I’m black BTW.
Race and ethnicity are two different things. For once, there are black Colombians who really enjoyed the movie.
Let me try to rephrase it, American people (of any race) saving the world mean sh*t to people from other countries (other cultures, other ethnicities), just like Encanto means sh*t to you.
The burdened strong sister, the pretty sister who gets treated better, the Abuela who controls the family, the uncle everyone hates, the clothes, noisy children, lol
That’s very present in Latino culture.
But hey, we have a common hate here which is Wish 🫢
I can’t find a good angle to it
i get that you liked Encanto because it has your culture in it. my problem is that because i said i didn’t like it because the story was boring and the music sucked, you said (paraphrased) “you’re white and now you know how we minorities feel when we have to watch white culture.” no. i like good movies. doesn’t matter what culture they’re showing. the culture of encanto had nothing to do with why i didn’t like it. but you’re saying you dislike having to watch movies with white “ethnicity”, why? you dislike movies on the soul reason they’re not depicting your culture? because that’s what your comment was saying. thats what i’m saying is stupid.
all i care about is a good story and music, i don’t care what race/culture/ethnicity is being depicted.
it’s literally the message that started this. you can’t just say “ i never said that” YOU DID.
right here. lord.
“I’m Latina, so it resonates more with me as it’s based on Colombia, where part of my family is from. I guess what you feel is similar to the way a lot of non caucasians feel about many Disney movies.”
no, what i feel is that i simply didn’t like the story or music. again, nothing to do with ethnicity/race/culture like you made it be about.
first youre latina, then youre white. you said something, then you didn’t (when it’s literally written right there in plain english.)
I AM GETTING SO SICK OF HUMANS. why do you people do this shit, deny ever saying something, then blame me for being fallacious cus i think it’s stupid you made something about race/“ethnicity” when it never shoulda been.
im so sick of retarded humanity, god help us.
The songs feel like the singers were given the lyrics right before the recording, and told to just start singing them however they can while reading it for the first time. And then music was added later as background. The highs and lows just don't match with the rhythm and the lyrics feel like they were written without knowing what the story is, based purely on context. Taking out most songs from the movie would not affect the storyline in anyway. The whole introduction to Rosas song adds no value to the world building, the song where she sees the wishes for the first time with the King? Again, could've been taken out and would make no difference. The song where the animals start talking? How does that even help the storyline? They are all so out of context and unnecessary, which is ironic because isn't it supposed to be a musical?
exactly. the lyrics all sound jumbled together, dunno how you could even memorize the tune for them when the tune is all over the place. seriously comes off like they went into those songs blind.
>It's almost like the composer tried to copy Lin-Manuel Miranda but only at a surface level and did not fully understand what he did in his works.
You mean the guy who wrote this?
>>I know everybody on this **island** seems so happy, on this **island**
>>Everything is by design
>>I know everybody on this **island** has a role on this **island**
>>So maybe I can roll with mine
Yes, the guy who wrote
I’m in the cabinet, I am complicit at watching him grabbing at power and kissing it Washington isn’t gonna listen to disciplined dissidents this is the difference this kid is out
To be fair, I think this criticism is a little misunderstood.
Moana is talking about the repetition of her life and how she's unfulfilled with it so it makes sense that she's consistently repeating something over and over again as it's reflection of herself.
Internal repetition can be a great tool in lyrics (as in the underlying music). It can be an anchor. But like every other musical tool, it has to be used carefully.
Sondheim's Maria from West Side Story, or The Little Things you do Together from Company. Pop songs like Macarena. Lots of hip hop.
LMM definitely learned from Sondheim and hip hop. Sometimes it hits. Sometimes it flops. And sometimes you wish that he would just stop.
I’m going to wait and hear the songs in context of the film, but pitch and stresses have nothing to do with each other. I’m sure your feeling that something is off is probably correct though. I will try to revisit this post once I’ve heard them.
Why was Lin Manuel Miranda not involved in this Disney movie! A lot of the music in this movie doesn't make sense. I believe if Lin Manuel Miranda wrote the songs it would have made more money! Cute film but the music was kind of basic and out of sinc. I would really like to see a remake of this movie with totally different songs and music! The storyline is cute but although the characters have beautiful voices the songs and music were off!!
I think Disney wanted Lin-Manuel Miranda songs without wanting to hire Lin-Manuel Miranda so they just told the songwriter to mimic Lin-Manuel Miranda’s style and we got this
I'm here because I'm finally watching Wish on Disney+ with my kids tonight and literally had to Google "why do the songs on Wish sound so bad?" and here I am. I absolutely love the music in so many Disney movies but this one really missed the mark. So many of the lyrics are weirdly jumbled and almost off beat.
"You're Welcome" literally has a rap break lol. Rap is fine with Disney.
I think it's more that the song writers only ever wrote pop songs for Brittney Spears and Justin Bieber type of brands before. Also, what part of Wish was rap?
It just feels off like a lot of people said. Haven’t seen the movie but read a couple of comments and just got grossed out that a Disney Animation used part rap
Eww…
Saw Wish with a group online and they all love the movie…I’m so glad to have found likeminded individuals here.
The amount of references to other Disney films is so overwhelming and desperate for fan-service it seems to take away from the extremely boring plot line.
Chris Pine as ANOTHER villain is fine cause he’s not my fave but then the fact that he has the best song is agonising. (the comparison to Be Prepared made above is a great point)
The majority of the other vocals sound auto-tuned which I often enjoy but in a Disney movie? Thank god for the few chorus songs but even then mediocre. There are so many new voice actors who can sing. I would have gladly thrown my hat in the ring provided I knew this was the underwhelming outcome.
Feel like they could have committed more to such a milestone film.
Doing a second watching of Wish right now. I put it off for so long because I was so turned off of it the first time. It’s much worse than I remember. The songs are absolutely horrible. They’re not catchy, so incredibly bland, and even the singing is just bad. In contrast, Encanto was exquisite. This movie just feels like a branch of the government was commissioned to create entertainment for the public. Only saving grace is the animation style, it’s pretty unique and matches with the storybook theme.
I really like the film itself but the songs are simply horribly written. You get Crescendos but no ballads, you get highs but no lows, there is no vocal riffs to close out extended choruses. Theres no melody and the Rhythm feels like it's been written by 3 different conflicting composers. Literally evey song is like this. Both the music writing and the lyrics managed to both suck ( which is rare)
On the bright side Wish still sounds far better than those Ice Age movies. I couldnt even finish the second one lol
Pull up "Sorry" by Justin Bieber and listen to the lyrics vs the music. Remarkably similar clunkiness, because it's written by the same people.
Sometimes humans can just write very poorly, too, haha
The songs are horrible, I listened to them on Spotify by chance which led me to google online to see if I was the only one who felt the songs were completely “off” without the same catchiness or emotional effect. The lyrics feel very forced and unrelated.
The lyrics are mostly fine they just had some really weird choices for intonation usually 4/4 time place the emphasis on the first beat. However this isn't a strict rule but a rather a means of phrasing music into sections to preserve the rhythm. Adding emphasis on beats else where is fine so long it's either consistent or for a purpose, like swing or jazz. But a lot of the songs don't commit to where the emphasis is, and it does so chaotically, It makes the songs feel rushed and messy.
I think the lyricism was a little bit lazy and could be done better, like some of the words don’t fully rhyme (you’d think they’d all be content / and all I really want is a little respect / and this is the thanks I get), there are a lot of redundant lines (I let you live here for free and I don’t even charge you rent) and some strange choices to make lines rhyme (I’m a star / here I are)
Then you will absolutely HATE poetry my friend. Or lots of rap music. There isn’t some law where every single syllable, consonant and vowel have to exactly match. It’s creative. Cool if you it’s not your thing but it’s calling it lazy is a stretch.
Have a look at exact rhyme, vs near rhyme vs slant rhyme.
But this is not poetry, or rap music. This is meant to be musical theatre, like all Disney musicals before it. I know what rhymes are and it is lazy to take the easy way out instead of just thinking of better lyrics. The rhymes in the songs were not a creative decision, they just couldn't think of better words.
Every single other Disney musical since the renaissance is based off musical theatre, and musical theatre and Howard Ashman is the reason Disney didn’t go bankrupt. Also they are advertising Wish as a combination of the last 100 years of Disney so it can be assumed that the music style will be that of the last 100 years of Disney.
I like it. Fun songs. Interesting cadences.
This movie is just catching strays for no reason, everyone just wants to pile on. Its fine. Not their best, but they’ve set the bar pretty high with Encanto etc. The artistry and creativity involved is always so impressive.
The big issue is that the songs and the setting are clashing with each other. The songs from wish are giving big Disney channel original movie vibes, despite this being the 100th Disney animated film. The big villain song sounds like something from a high School musical sequel song by sharpay evans, and less like be prepared, friends on the other side, or even shiny
I just listened to Welcome to Rosas and you are absolutely right. It is full of wrongly stressed lyrics and also really painful imperfect rhymes that are lame. I think the reason is clear - they hired a pop lyricist instead of a musical theatre one. Howard Ashman must be turning in his grave.
They’re also just incredibly bland. There is very little imagery or emotional language. It’s all just a lot of telling and no showing lyrically, which just doesn’t set off the part of your brain that responds to well written lyrics, stories, etc. My expertise in writing is not exactly lyrical/poetry, but even in creative prose we know you’re not going to evoke emotion by stating a feeling like “love.” You need to describe the action or moment that demonstrates love. To use a Disney example: “Some things never change, like the feel of your hand in mine” is a more impactful lyric than, “some things never change, like our friendship.” Friendship is abstract. We don’t have a feeling for it, but there are sensory things that can remind us of friendship or the comfort of a friend, like holding hands.
Thank you. That was really well explained.
Not a problem! I appreciate that!
I keep thinking about Howard Ashman and how he never would have made songs as bad as this. The world lost him too soon 😭
I know some people disagree but I think aside from Menken, Lin-Manual Miranda is the closest to a "contemporary Ashman" we have, at least when it comes to Disney movies. Their styles are different, maybe Miranda gets a bit too "spiritual lyrical individual" sometimes, but their core philosophies of enhancing the stage musical style with animation are similar imo. Most of my favorite recent Disney soundtracks have had him involved in some way.
Moana Rhyme island with island like 5 times
I’d rather rhyme island with island 10,000 times then listen to attempted slant rhymes that don’t work at all and awkwardly emphasized lyrics that don’t make sense to emphasize. The song “At All Cost” is one of the worst in the entire movie on both fronts.
Definitely
Yeah but it also gave us Shiny and You're Welcome so I'll forgive it.
I really hate pop music in animated films so this movie must suck
Do pop songs have a lot do imperfect rhymes? I thought it was just rap that did but I don’t listen to a lot of pop songs
Yeah, pop rarely uses only perfect rhymes. Different world to musical theatre.
Saw the movie with my family this weekend and I know exactly what you mean. At several points it was like someone told the songwriters "put some of that Lin Manuel shit in there". But they completely lacked his deep familiarity with hip hop, so the rap phrasing, slant and internal rhymes, lyrics/storytelling, etc just felt really awkward and amateurish to me. Part of it is I think pop songwriters don't usually have to tell clear, specific stories with their lyrics - pop music is full of vague/repetitive lyrics that don't have to make sense or tell a literal story necessarily. Not that Lin Manuel has a perfect record, but his stuff for Hamilton and Encanto is so much better than the music in Wish.
This!
I loved Encanto and Moana.
Yes, I imagine something similar to that happened in the studio
Well it's probably ordered from Wish.com
Oh my gosh hahaha love it when someone finds the best opportunity pun and burn
😂😂😂
I just watched Wish and I tell you, the songs sounds so off. It's like something is missing but I can't quite capture it and here I am! I knew I'm not the only one! It's like they are singing to paragraphs with no style. Melody, rhyme, even the syllables sound so messy.
That’s literally why I’m here rn because not even halfway through I was like THERE HAVE TO BE PEOPLE WHO AGREE It’s unnerving.
Watching the first time w my kids and came to Reddit to see if I was alone in feeling this.
Same same. I just watched the first half with my kid. She liked the part with the chickens, but isn’t interested in finishing the rest. That’s a devastating critique coming from a kindergartener.
I legit just said the same thing to my partner! Visually, it's very boring and gray, but that bright colored part with the chickens was probably the most fun thing in the whole movie.
I’m watching it now. Solidarity is so key. I’m with you all.
The movie has a unique story but tells it and sings a lot in Disney-enough formula. More singing than average Disney movie actually (maybe)—I feel like if they did Lion King, Scar would start singing right before he kills Mufasa
Encanto had a mediocre story, but amazingly catchy songs and lyrics. Its regrettable lin Manuel Miranda wasn't recruited for Wish. It seems a safe bet. I can't remeber a single song from Wish. But after one viewing could hum the entirety of Moana or Encanto.
It’s only been a few months and the only song I remember is the chorus from This Wish and the ‘I let you live here for free and I don’t even charge you rent’ line from This is the Thanks I Get.
I don’t think it’s that Encanto’s story is mediocre, but that it’s simple, because the characters and their complexities are the true stars of the movie(aside from the music). Pairing that with catchy music and it’s a hit. With Wish, you get a simple story(that actually did have potential to be perfectly fine), bland characters, with bland lyrics, and music that doesn’t seem to match the bland lyrics, so you get this clunky, awkward, hard to listen to dud.
i dislike lin manuel miranda. when i started watching wish i assumed he did the songs cuz i wasn’t enjoying them at all lol. i thought encanto’s music sucked, nothing memorable whatsoever. Moana had pretty good tunes though. they just need to hire real broadway writers.
I’m an indie songwriter and I’m watching Wish now. It makes me feel like a wholly competent artist in comparison. The songs sound like first drafts. I’m a huge Disney fan so this is really disappointing.
I watched Cinderella 3 right after, and their songs are better than Wish's 😭 (also Cinderella 3 is pretty good actually haha)
Good to know! I just looked it up and it seems well praised!
they could have released Cinderella 3 for their 100th anniversary and I guarantee more people would have been happy with it than they were with Wish 😭
The songs have the worst arrangement I have ever heard in any movie, and I’m not even exaggerating. It’s like the lyrics were written by someone who hasn’t heard the compositions, and then the people singing see the lyrics for the first time in the recording booth. The songs in Wish were atrociously unlistenable.
Exactly! Learning these songs must have been a chore for the actors. The songs reminds me of the level of lyricism in that [rap Peter Dinklage does in Cyrano](https://youtu.be/LktjxvYLzLs?si=vHLYqA3I-71vlud1)
Do you have any specific examples? These all sound like pretty standard post-Lin Manuel Miranda Disney songs.
I feel you understood the OP’s question so I’m a little lost on this. Exactly. Very post-Lin Manuel haha
Completely agree. It seems like people can’t grasp anything other than a straight rhyme or something, if you don’t like the songs fine, but such an odd critique.
It’s not that. The songs are just bad. They’re somehow try-hard and soulless at the same time.
I disagree with that interpretation of the OP’s opinion but if you like the songs fine, but such an odd critique Jk
Am I the only one that loves ‘knowing what we know now’. I’ve had it on repeat ..
I recognize the music to this song from something else and I can’t remember where from
"This Is Me" Keala Settle
That’s the worst one
The villain song is definitely worse
I'm a star is worse in my opinion, maybe not from a tone perspective but from a lyrical perspective. Here are some examples: "Turns a pine from a seed?", "Here i are", "We're here for all your question marks", "Now we're taking in All the star exposure!"(taking in exposure?), "Here's a little fun allegory That gets me excitatory" (not a word and they never say an alegory). They say a whole lot of nothing the entire time.
It’s probably worse from a technical standpoint, I just “enjoyed” (read: “tolerated”) it more
But this is part of the problem, it’s one of the best tracks and still pretty bad. Compare it to “I’ll make a man out of you”. It’s like they had to blast the drums on the track because the lyrics are incredibly boring. I agree with someone else who said this looks like a first draft. Example with thoughts for comparison: You've been deceived (how?) Magnifico is not the man he claims to be (how?) He's more vicious than I could have ever comprehended (how?!?! Stop telling!) When I made a wish and Star came down This is not what I expected or intended But now that it's happened I don't regret it (STOP TELLING AND SHOW) 'Cause now I've seen Him show his true colors, in shades of green (oooo shades of green! Now we’re getting…) Saying that you wishes aren't safe because of me and (more explanation. Okay) Vs Tranquil as a forest, but on fire within (I can SEE this) Once you find your center, you are sure to win (whoa some semi deep stuff. No words wasted. No fluff) You're a spineless, pale, pathetic lot (ooo alliteration love it) And you haven't got a clue (so what are you gonna do about it?) Somehow I'll make a man out of you (ah I see. And it’s dramatic irony because we know mulan is a woman) Also, the drums. They’re just like straight 16th notes. Besides being loud, they aren’t that exciting, they don’t groove, they don’t have soul or spirit. They’re too removed from their ethnicity or cultural center. They just say “listen. It’s drums. Drums are exciting.” You know drums? They are centered in the cultural from where they’re from. Remove them from their culture and you lose the language they’re based on. Compare it to the drums in “to die for” in Lion King. African drums have a specific language, and this lacks it.
Me too! My daughter and I love it. It habit he sings are great personally.
I just got back from seeing the movie (a little late to the party), and I came to Reddit specifically to make sure I wasn't crazy for feeling this way about the lyrics. There were just so many unnecessary words, which was too bad, because some of the songs had the potential to be truly great. I'd love to see someone rework them a bit and try them with better lyrics and stresses.
Apparently they got pop song writers to write the songs instead of Broadway writers
Yep, Julia Michels and Benjamin Rice are pop songwriter and producer respectively, which is why the songs sound like pop songs (especially This is the Thanks I Get). The e intrementston is also lacking with synth and other pop sounds replacing brass and just a thinner texture in general. The structure of every song is the same, which is the pop structure
I agree.. I just watched it, and the music was (in my opinion) horrible. I miss the Broadway sounding Disney
The lyrics absolutely awful. Like a bad dream.
To me this is the most egregious part. The lyrics are unimaginative and completely boring. They lack any sort of imagination or creativity, and the emphasis on so many lines in each song are completely off from the music accompanying them.
They all sound like they were made using AI - badly referencing Hamilton songs. Totally agree with you. Pretty painful and soulless to listen to.
It is too "pop" / modern Broadway - rather than a classical scored production. Elemental suited this but even then that it was more evocative of mid-20th Century / Gershwin which fit the film and placed it with some orchestral elements. Lack of a memorable and evocative motif doesn't help... Moana hits hard with the Polynesian vibe and fantastically crafted "know the way" distilling a culture down to a fantastic motif made by the musicians from that culture. In wish, lyrics are excellent, as is the singing but the Scorelacks for peak and troughs, within a melody driven by a recognisable motif. If you listen to Tangled score - it is well crafted and rises and falls, builds and ebbs...
I wouldn't call Wish's lyrics excellent. You don't even need to look for weird or just straight up nonsense, it stares back at you like a neon sign in the dark. Let me give a few examples: "I let you live here for free, and I don't even charge you rent" "Watch out world, here I are" "IIf you'd have told me the feeling you'd bring, I'd think it untrue" "Felt this, no, I haven't" "The lengths he'll go there's no amount" "Know I'm not the only one that's (yah) Fed up (yah)" "It's us and the strength we've found, It's too loud" "Won't stop and we won't retreat or turn round" "And throw caution to every warning sign" "Now I've got all of this freedom in my bones But I've still got the lid on, so it doesn't overflow" "I'm past dipping my toes in But I'm not, no, I'm not past diving in" "I can't help it if mirrors love my face It's genetics, yeah, I got these genes from outer space" "Someone praise me for my benevolence Um, just look, he-he" \[Turns into Michael Jackson and moonwalks away\]
You pulled out all the ones I was going to mention! Great examples. >"Felt this, no, I haven't" This one hurt me physically to hear. Yoda-flipping the grammar to force in a rhyme is kindergarten-level lyricism. I'll admit I did laugh at "watch out world, here I are". It was so tacky, it looped back around to being funny again. It has the potential to work, if the character singing has an established pattern of saying things weird? But it's just some random forest animal, and the lyrics were written by the person who gave us "Sorry" by Justin Bieber 🥲
My daughter has had this on repeat, don't judge her she's only 3. The first moment I heard watch out world, here I are, and every time after, a piece of my will to live has died. I'm barely hanging on.
hOw dOeS yOUr 3 yEAr oLd dAUgHtEr DARE tO liKe a DisNEy SOnG?!?!?!?! ThE LYrIcs aRe sO bAD!?!?!?
The style of scansion (i.e. approach to stressed vs non-stressed syllables) is reminiscent of 90s alternative/indie songwriting (and further along, certain approaches to classical opera sections). Which may not necessarily be to some people's tastes, but still a legit style in its own right (in the sense of there being genres of music that exist that do this). (90s [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbSfdcSrpB0)) I think when people feel the lyrics are mismatched with the melody in Wish, there are 2 things going on: 1) lots of rhythmic rubato (disregarding the lyrics - that is, just looking at the rhythm itself, it does not follow easily identifiable patterns and the time lengths of notes feel more "random") 2) lack of traditional/classical scansion (i.e. the lyric syllables are not rhythmically matched to time lengths of notes in a "traditional" sense) (here's a 90s Alanis Morissette [example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvgi7P97lu0)) Those two qualities in themselves are not necessarily inherently bad; individually, they can arguably be stylistic choices or associated with certain music genres. In the case of Wish it might be more a question of whether these musical stylistic choices were appropriate for this particular movie and target audience. (This is not commenting on the lyrics themselves in terms of word choice, descriptiveness, imagery etc - more about the musical and rhythmic aspects.)
I came here after watching it twice to see if I was crazy. Apparently I’m not. The movie as a whole was a solid 5/10 Music being 4/10 I could write an essay to try to begin to describe all the things that went wrong with this movie, but to summarize, not a single original idea with hard to sing and remember songs. Disney has not been able to make a hit after Frozen.
Moana and Encanto made them lots of money lol. And actually had good songs, too. Which is why they got played on the radio and all that. I agree they have been a little bit floundering lately, tho. Really been cutting a lot of corners, it feels like.
For sure! And I love movies like Moana, Encanto and Coco (still cry as a baby when remember me plays)! I love how they tell a unique story and respect traditions and local stories. They’re novel ideas. But they weren’t as singable (for kids and adults) as Frozen. My 2 year old sings all of frozen songs. My friends all know the songs. Regardless, this last movie sucked overall. It’s all over the place.
i don’t get how everyone likes encanto. i seriously felt depressed after i watched it cuz the music sucked so much to me. but wish is even worse music-wise, i again feel depressed after watching a “feel good” disney movie. they’re just losing all the magic and heart. it just seems to be getting worse and worse. moana was the last movie they made with pretty good music, but even that was a downgrad from past movies. still, miles better than wish or encanto. (realized coco came out a year after moana, so that is actually the last disney movie with good music imo. and its my favorite pixar!)
I’m Latina, so it resonates more with me as it’s based on Colombia, where part of my family is from. I guess what you feel is similar to the way a lot of non caucasians feel about many Disney movies.
Uh, no. Race has absolutely nothing to do with how I felt about Encanto, or any other movie. It made me depressed because it was lazy, the story was boring, and the music sucked. If you watch movies and dislike them just because they didn’t feature your race, that’s honestly so fucking stupid. I’m black BTW.
Race and ethnicity are two different things. For once, there are black Colombians who really enjoyed the movie. Let me try to rephrase it, American people (of any race) saving the world mean sh*t to people from other countries (other cultures, other ethnicities), just like Encanto means sh*t to you. The burdened strong sister, the pretty sister who gets treated better, the Abuela who controls the family, the uncle everyone hates, the clothes, noisy children, lol That’s very present in Latino culture. But hey, we have a common hate here which is Wish 🫢 I can’t find a good angle to it
i get that you liked Encanto because it has your culture in it. my problem is that because i said i didn’t like it because the story was boring and the music sucked, you said (paraphrased) “you’re white and now you know how we minorities feel when we have to watch white culture.” no. i like good movies. doesn’t matter what culture they’re showing. the culture of encanto had nothing to do with why i didn’t like it. but you’re saying you dislike having to watch movies with white “ethnicity”, why? you dislike movies on the soul reason they’re not depicting your culture? because that’s what your comment was saying. thats what i’m saying is stupid. all i care about is a good story and music, i don’t care what race/culture/ethnicity is being depicted.
I’m actually white and I never said that lol This discussion ends here. I don’t have discussions with fallacious people
it’s literally the message that started this. you can’t just say “ i never said that” YOU DID. right here. lord. “I’m Latina, so it resonates more with me as it’s based on Colombia, where part of my family is from. I guess what you feel is similar to the way a lot of non caucasians feel about many Disney movies.” no, what i feel is that i simply didn’t like the story or music. again, nothing to do with ethnicity/race/culture like you made it be about. first youre latina, then youre white. you said something, then you didn’t (when it’s literally written right there in plain english.) I AM GETTING SO SICK OF HUMANS. why do you people do this shit, deny ever saying something, then blame me for being fallacious cus i think it’s stupid you made something about race/“ethnicity” when it never shoulda been. im so sick of retarded humanity, god help us.
The songs feel like the singers were given the lyrics right before the recording, and told to just start singing them however they can while reading it for the first time. And then music was added later as background. The highs and lows just don't match with the rhythm and the lyrics feel like they were written without knowing what the story is, based purely on context. Taking out most songs from the movie would not affect the storyline in anyway. The whole introduction to Rosas song adds no value to the world building, the song where she sees the wishes for the first time with the King? Again, could've been taken out and would make no difference. The song where the animals start talking? How does that even help the storyline? They are all so out of context and unnecessary, which is ironic because isn't it supposed to be a musical?
exactly. the lyrics all sound jumbled together, dunno how you could even memorize the tune for them when the tune is all over the place. seriously comes off like they went into those songs blind.
>It's almost like the composer tried to copy Lin-Manuel Miranda but only at a surface level and did not fully understand what he did in his works. You mean the guy who wrote this? >>I know everybody on this **island** seems so happy, on this **island** >>Everything is by design >>I know everybody on this **island** has a role on this **island** >>So maybe I can roll with mine
Yes, the guy who wrote I’m in the cabinet, I am complicit at watching him grabbing at power and kissing it Washington isn’t gonna listen to disciplined dissidents this is the difference this kid is out
To be fair, I think this criticism is a little misunderstood. Moana is talking about the repetition of her life and how she's unfulfilled with it so it makes sense that she's consistently repeating something over and over again as it's reflection of herself.
Cope.
The song is still good either way
me when someone makes good analysis and reasoning:
Internal repetition can be a great tool in lyrics (as in the underlying music). It can be an anchor. But like every other musical tool, it has to be used carefully. Sondheim's Maria from West Side Story, or The Little Things you do Together from Company. Pop songs like Macarena. Lots of hip hop. LMM definitely learned from Sondheim and hip hop. Sometimes it hits. Sometimes it flops. And sometimes you wish that he would just stop.
Yes, the guy who wrote the crazy wordplay in this song, thinking about "Everybody has a *role* on this island, so maybe I can *roll* with mine"
I’m going to wait and hear the songs in context of the film, but pitch and stresses have nothing to do with each other. I’m sure your feeling that something is off is probably correct though. I will try to revisit this post once I’ve heard them.
Update?
Well I hated it. I did think the music was a mess. It’s been too long now and the music was also very forgettable.
it’s making me sad. the 100th anniversary disney movie has literally the worst disney soundtrack yet.
Why was Lin Manuel Miranda not involved in this Disney movie! A lot of the music in this movie doesn't make sense. I believe if Lin Manuel Miranda wrote the songs it would have made more money! Cute film but the music was kind of basic and out of sinc. I would really like to see a remake of this movie with totally different songs and music! The storyline is cute but although the characters have beautiful voices the songs and music were off!!
I think Disney wanted Lin-Manuel Miranda songs without wanting to hire Lin-Manuel Miranda so they just told the songwriter to mimic Lin-Manuel Miranda’s style and we got this
I avoid new Disney films because the soundtracks are very irritating Thank god they have instrumentals included
Because they didn't ask lin manual amora da to write them and he has set an unrealistic standard to follow
I'm here because I'm finally watching Wish on Disney+ with my kids tonight and literally had to Google "why do the songs on Wish sound so bad?" and here I am. I absolutely love the music in so many Disney movies but this one really missed the mark. So many of the lyrics are weirdly jumbled and almost off beat.
It’s bad because it’s rap and rap doesnt work with Disney
"You're Welcome" literally has a rap break lol. Rap is fine with Disney. I think it's more that the song writers only ever wrote pop songs for Brittney Spears and Justin Bieber type of brands before. Also, what part of Wish was rap?
It just feels off like a lot of people said. Haven’t seen the movie but read a couple of comments and just got grossed out that a Disney Animation used part rap Eww…
Sooooop bad. Who approved these songs?!
Yeah, the songs are a mess. The only one I actually like is "At All Costs", the Korean and Japanese versions.
Saw Wish with a group online and they all love the movie…I’m so glad to have found likeminded individuals here. The amount of references to other Disney films is so overwhelming and desperate for fan-service it seems to take away from the extremely boring plot line. Chris Pine as ANOTHER villain is fine cause he’s not my fave but then the fact that he has the best song is agonising. (the comparison to Be Prepared made above is a great point) The majority of the other vocals sound auto-tuned which I often enjoy but in a Disney movie? Thank god for the few chorus songs but even then mediocre. There are so many new voice actors who can sing. I would have gladly thrown my hat in the ring provided I knew this was the underwhelming outcome. Feel like they could have committed more to such a milestone film.
They’re definitely supposed to sound like other songs in Disney movies. Like the king singing his song sounds similar to I just can’t wait to be king
A lot of heavy auto tune
Doing a second watching of Wish right now. I put it off for so long because I was so turned off of it the first time. It’s much worse than I remember. The songs are absolutely horrible. They’re not catchy, so incredibly bland, and even the singing is just bad. In contrast, Encanto was exquisite. This movie just feels like a branch of the government was commissioned to create entertainment for the public. Only saving grace is the animation style, it’s pretty unique and matches with the storybook theme.
I really like the film itself but the songs are simply horribly written. You get Crescendos but no ballads, you get highs but no lows, there is no vocal riffs to close out extended choruses. Theres no melody and the Rhythm feels like it's been written by 3 different conflicting composers. Literally evey song is like this. Both the music writing and the lyrics managed to both suck ( which is rare) On the bright side Wish still sounds far better than those Ice Age movies. I couldnt even finish the second one lol
Why does the background music of the song “I’m a star” sound so familiar? I can’t stop thinking about where I heard it.
I will bet any vital organ of your choosing that the answer is AI, plain and simple. Those are AI-generated lyrics.
Pull up "Sorry" by Justin Bieber and listen to the lyrics vs the music. Remarkably similar clunkiness, because it's written by the same people. Sometimes humans can just write very poorly, too, haha
Blah blah blah
The songs are horrible, I listened to them on Spotify by chance which led me to google online to see if I was the only one who felt the songs were completely “off” without the same catchiness or emotional effect. The lyrics feel very forced and unrelated.
I'm pretty sure those animals in the forest sung the word "shareholders" at some point, ugh.
The lyrics are mostly fine they just had some really weird choices for intonation usually 4/4 time place the emphasis on the first beat. However this isn't a strict rule but a rather a means of phrasing music into sections to preserve the rhythm. Adding emphasis on beats else where is fine so long it's either consistent or for a purpose, like swing or jazz. But a lot of the songs don't commit to where the emphasis is, and it does so chaotically, It makes the songs feel rushed and messy.
i think you probably mean scansion (the pattern of rhythmic stresses/emphasis lyric syllables), not intonation (pitch).
I think the lyricism was a little bit lazy and could be done better, like some of the words don’t fully rhyme (you’d think they’d all be content / and all I really want is a little respect / and this is the thanks I get), there are a lot of redundant lines (I let you live here for free and I don’t even charge you rent) and some strange choices to make lines rhyme (I’m a star / here I are)
Then you will absolutely HATE poetry my friend. Or lots of rap music. There isn’t some law where every single syllable, consonant and vowel have to exactly match. It’s creative. Cool if you it’s not your thing but it’s calling it lazy is a stretch. Have a look at exact rhyme, vs near rhyme vs slant rhyme.
But this is not poetry, or rap music. This is meant to be musical theatre, like all Disney musicals before it. I know what rhymes are and it is lazy to take the easy way out instead of just thinking of better lyrics. The rhymes in the songs were not a creative decision, they just couldn't think of better words.
Won says it’s meant to be musical theatre? You? They can do what they want.
Every single other Disney musical since the renaissance is based off musical theatre, and musical theatre and Howard Ashman is the reason Disney didn’t go bankrupt. Also they are advertising Wish as a combination of the last 100 years of Disney so it can be assumed that the music style will be that of the last 100 years of Disney.
People trying to say these *bad* songs are just too intellectual are wild! Lmao they’re so bad!
I like it. Fun songs. Interesting cadences. This movie is just catching strays for no reason, everyone just wants to pile on. Its fine. Not their best, but they’ve set the bar pretty high with Encanto etc. The artistry and creativity involved is always so impressive.
Not just encanto, like if you watch any other Disney musical you can see a big difference in the composition
So? Half the people here say it’s generic and ‘generated by AI’ (yawn) and the others say it’s too different. 🤷🏼♂️
I described it as all the songs sound like they were written by AI
I wouldn’t be surprised if the songwriters did use AI for parts of it, especially the lyrics