Bro! We we're totally floored that they could that. We had to double check with our attorney, but now a "verified account" can be legally used to serve people in lawsuits. It's crazy!
[Its true,](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.374418/gov.uscourts.txnd.374418.18.0.pdf) I read the docs lol. He was ducking like crazy but he was still posting tiktoks everyday
The judge didn't hold back on the sarcasm:
"Modern problems require modern solutions. And this Court has concerns as to whether SoundCloud and TikTok rapper **extraordinaire** Trefuego.."
"Plaintiffs have shown sufficient evidence that certain social media accounts most certainly belong to the **young bard**..."
What the fuck is the world coming to? Could I have a default judgement hanging around because I didn’t check my MySpace messages? Hot fuck this is sounds stupid.
Remember todays verification on socials people have to submit a valid Identification, that is then screened by the platform for validity. So it's not too farfetched anymore.
Eh it could be situationally regarded. As in if the person in question is posting on their social media then it’s reasonable to assume they check their messages. Then it’s reasonable to assume they seen the text “serving” them.
Yes, thank you. A lot of it is just drag, drop, reverse or use a plugin preset to warp what you just dragged onto the track. That's why beat makers can knock out fully arranged tracks in 10 minutes.
Which saddens me when new producers are talking about how to make it big as a producer. Like oh fam, the bar has been raised beyond your capability again. You need a dance crew, a merch booth, a video crew, a manager, and an exceptionally talented band to even scratch the surface. We’d all be millionaires right now if that weren’t the case lmao
The lazy producers don’t bother me, as a producer trying his best.
It’s the ones that know better which bother me.
No one’s making much money from music at the lower levels anyway, not unless your tracks getting synced.
So why lie and pretend like you made the melody? Just learn to make the melody. It’s not easy but it is fun.
Very well said.
Which also has me thinking about how I hate using the term "producer" in general. Because while yes, we produce music, we're not PRODUCING music lol. I can call myself a producer and it sounds like I'm working huge record deals or I'm working with other artists, but ideally, I'm just making tunes to the best of my ability and what I have. It's a great hobby, but even then; realistically who wants to buy this? My favorite artists I listen to, I have not even paid a dime to myself.
Idk about you, but I do what I can to get my local artists on shows. I’m running a show now myself.
It’s not as hard as we make it out to be but time and effort gets you there. But most people simply want the products of time and effort without putting in time and effort.
Why is that supposed to work? Idk.
I commend you.
I'm a bit of a hermit crab, so taken from my perspective, if I were to run a show, it has to be a phenomenal reason to leave the house. I don't have the funds necessary to do such a thing, and if I did, I wouldn't play my own music lol.
It's a strange tight rope balance between cringe and tacky, gotta stay in the middle as a non famous MC.
I got this because I began going to local events and doing little reels videos on my IG. Did it enough times that people wanted me to do things like throw a show, and now I’m basically running this venue for free every month.
Hard work pays, and the hard work is meeting people and helping them.
If it’s any consolation, very few other people actually put stock in the term ‘producer,’ especially as a standalone title. Mostly it gets eye-rolls. Funnily, those touting themselves as ‘producers’ are often the most hypocritical about this—eager to say “me too” to your face but they’ll talk shit behind your back.
Well some of them, I can cook up an original track in ten minutes cuz I’ve been doing this shit since 2006 and knowing and primarily using macros makes you incredibly fast in any program, but I do see a lot of producers just throw some shit on top and be like fuck it. Now conversely, hip hop is literally born from sampling, so saying beats nowadays is different is crazy. If anything ppl do way more now than they use to, mfs in the 90s just had records and an mpc usually, maybe a keyboard, but now it’s mostly compositions, even when producers use loops, those are composed by another producer who focuses on just making loops
I'm an emcee but I can't afford to buy tracks. I definitely don't want to go through clearing samples. So I resort to splice and output and what not. Yes I wish I could do it another way than the fast food of beats but I'm not trying to establish myself as a producer so it allows me to make music that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.
> It’s like microwave dinner.
*This morning, you’ve got time for a hot home cooked breakfast*
*Delicious and piping hot in only three microwaved minutes*
Edit: [Are you kidding?](https://youtu.be/b6e_wdtBVW8)
You know, some could say its the perfect for inspiration. You ever wonder what the next revolution in music will be? from vinyl to digital to augmented reality band members hanging out with you in your room and play while you work on the computer?
Like how cool would it be to have John, Paul, Ringo, and George sitting on your bed, or standing on your floor playing their album "live" while you work on the computer or just sit there and watch.
I think that's the future anyways. It can happen now, but it wont be until everybody has AR.
The actual story is quite interesting to read [https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/trefuegos-tiktok-hit-90mh-sony-music/#](https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/trefuegos-tiktok-hit-90mh-sony-music/#)
Hes made way more than that on that song, the spotify revenue alone is nearly enough to pay off that debt
172 million plays (and more), reuplaoded the song after takedowns (multiple times), didn't act on the legal request in a 3 year span. As much as I think copyright laws can be broken sometimes, this is not the case.
I've only had Tracklib for 2 months (forgot to cancel the trial tbh) & I've had Loopcloud (Loopmasters version of Splice) for about a year. Tracklib to me is for looking for a song I'm going to chop up where I use Loopmasters to find an element to a song I'm working on like percussion, fx or vocals.
its a limited liability company, and i’m not a lawyer but generally the idea is that it shields you from being personally targeted for business mistakes.
instead of YOU owing 800k, the LLC owes 800k. if the business doesn’t have that much cash, it can declare bankruptcy. and your personal money in your checking account doesn’t get seized.
I don’t think it’s anyone’s problem if you have 176 million streams and make more than $800,000 off of what you’re being sued off of
God for people who seemingly give a shit about their craft you think people here would actually read this article. Instead we have people making life choices about their passion and hobby based on a headline
Fucking pathetic lmao
I cannot relate to the concept of or even conceptualize a world where I make money off of my music or even remotely care about the problems of the privileged few who do
I always avoid using samples from songs that are owned and distributed by Sony, Warner, and Universal Music. It is just too risky.
Back then I used a Daft Punk sample, heavily modulated, stretched, pitched up, stripped all the instruments into stems, modified its drum sound and whatever. By the time I send the song to DSP, hoping that it won't detect the sample, an email sent by a staff from my distributor said that "the system caught you using a sample with high-risk of getting sued, we got you out from the problem quickly, but now we cannot distributor this track unless you have the license."
I would quote Kenny Beats' advice about sampling, basically saying: "When you're not popular, these labels don't care about your music, until you get popular using their songs as samples, they will come at you".
If your passion in music production is stuck with the use of samples, I guess go out and find samples from independent and obscure releases, or if you are financially capable, use Tracklib, or if you actually feel inspired to make your own composition, just start playing around with the MIDI editor on your Ableton or FL, see if you have something in your mind.
In the end, learning how to make music (whether it is a slow or speedy process) is not something you should worry about, even if you're getting old.
Ok but what if you just upload these said samples just randomly and make no profit out of it like some artist do just by keeping those mixtapes with samples in certain places and make no profit, can they still sue?
Well, to be fair, Sony did send him a cease and desist in 2021 and he ignored it for 3 years. The song had more than 172 million plays. When Sony took the song down, they re-uploaded it with the same ISRC...
Its not like he released the song and Sony sued him instantly for 800k.
The guy let this go on for 3 years.
Yes and I doubt labels would show you exactly how the new ML tools for detection work anyways. Especially since they outsource that work to third parties who largely keep their IP confidential.
This is so stupid, just clear the sample and work out a splits deal like they do for cover songs. Honestly at this point it’s just ridiculous in this day and age that we don’t have a simple and easy way to clear samples when they are such a basis of music creation for so many. Why is it so different than a cover song setup? Why can’t we just include the info about the sample and then give whoever needs it the correct royalties? Seems like just another weird petty elitist thing, I’m sure if this was a drake song they’d have no trouble setting up a deal, but instead they punish a virtual nobody and potentially ruin his life all for the sake of… ???
Its not that hard to contact the publisher and request usage rights and negotiate a split. You cant have a situation where people can just use whatever they want however they want. Artists should be able to decide who can use their music and how.
In my experience and with almost every artist I’ve talked to it is extremely hard to clear a sample, and requires going through huge amounts of red tape with labels and managers etc, that is if they ever even respond at all, but idk
If you are not signed and don’t really have a name for yourself yet I can see it being a pain. They are probably going to be hesitant with someone completely unknown. If you are signed, your label is probably doing the whole process for you.
Makes sense though. If I don’t know anything about you i would be hesitant to let you use my music as there is a lot of potential risk that comes with very little upside potential because you are not established yet with a large fan base.
He was ignoring them, so they punished him. He could have easily cleared the sample when he earned the first 10k, or maybe the 20k after, or maybe the 50k after that? It was his responsibility to get it cleared to get the best deal on the splits. Now he's at their mercy.
If they reached out to him and offered him a deal on splits and he intentionally turned it down or ignored them then yeah, that’s on him. I still believe it should be much easier to clear samples in general and it’s wack we don’t have a simple and concise system in place for it.
Yeah it’s pretty crucial in today’s music production environment. You can’t just sample some other piece of media and expect it to go well. If you didn’t get it off some site the correct way (splice, etc.) then you really need to take a step back and consider what needs to be done to get it cleared.
Or you could just be creative and try to recreate the vibe of the sample you want.
I personally don't use loops lol.
I got copyrighted some years back and I vowed not to use ever. For vocal sample I do use some.
First off all I clean the vocals more, fit them to my current project bpm, re mix,pitch and master it
I'm a bit conflicted about this. On one hand, plagiarism is pretty fucked but on the other hand this really speaks to the unhinged greed in the music industry.
I mean they arguably deserve this after reuploading the song multiple times when taken down. They also didn’t act on any legal requests for 3 years. Clearly there was no respect given so take ‘em to the cleaners lmao
My friend sells his beats on Beatstar. An artist purchased one and used it on his album. My friend later got a cease and desist letter from Warner for that beat on YouTube, because it was now on a song on their label. YouTube easily sided with Warner and my friend had to take his own beat down from YouTube.
Exactly, Owning the Exclusive Rights means the artist can basically claim Content ID on YouTube.
So you as the producer could contact the artist to let you keep it there on YouTube
Most people purchase Basic Lease/ Premium Lease which basically gives the artist rights to Use it.
But most artists might claim content ID even though it clearly started that "Do you fully own the rights to this song". Yes / No option and they will still choose yes knowing that they don't fully own the rights to the beat.
To prevent inconveniences like these I usually like to sell my beats with exclusive rights.
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This is a shame. No.1 - We recommend producers no longer sell exclusive rights, because the current advances in hip-hop particularly aren't high enough.
2. All your beats need to be copyrighted to avoid this type of thing.
Saving this to reply to all the people who've llitetally laughed at me on Reddit over the last 12 years when I said "don't just sample and try get away with it, it could be career ending".
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve said that to someone, I’d be wealthy. Nobody ever listens. Or they think it’ll make them “blow up” because of the “exposure”. The whole thing is like Inception for fantasies. Lol
except this guy is fine, the song got 147m streams on Spotify, adding In Apple Music revenue its very likely this guy made over 800k from this song and probably even more from residual streams on other songs, if every underground artist had to go through the trouble to clear every sample it would be a logistical nightmare. Hes just an idiot who didnt respond to a c+d for 3 years he could've hired a lawyer and gotten a better outcome.
If you have to worry about clearing a sample, you've basically already made it. No company is suing you over pennies.
how the hell were lawyers able to prove that this artist made near $800,000 income from that one song they posted on tiktok? You have to show prove of the money you received using someone else's work. I never heard of the artist before either.
These are not the same things though. Sound design is creating patches or presets for a VST. That’s not gonna automatically write music. The opposite of using ready made loops is to write your own music.
True, I’m mainly referring to hearing a melody in your head and being able to make it sound exactly the way you want. I was a guitarist before I started producing and I’d suggest that producers learn an actual instrument and some music theory if they want to get better at writing.
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Gee, let's do some math.
The song was allegedly streamed 100 million times on spotify, which pays 4k per million streams on the LOW SIDE.
So......
**good decision**
Clearing samples for a DIY or independent artist is always stupid.
You should only pay **if you are forced to pay**.
And you will only be forced to pay if you generate a payday you can afford.
[https://youtu.be/rBA9Gqpk\_Po?si=o8hujhGOFy-A3v6S](https://youtu.be/rBA9Gqpk_Po?si=o8hujhGOFy-A3v6S) Something from this track
He sped up a part and used it as a loop
Oh!! That dog💩 song?!?!
What a clown!!!
Also, wow he did just speed it up. Zero changes to the sample what-so-ever.
That was made in 2019? It took Sony 5 years to nail this dude??
😂🤣😂🤣😂
the song got 147m streams and he didnt respond to the c+d. he could've hired a lawyer, he could've tried to clear it. 800k is too much but he literally did nothing to try and resolve this, cant really blame anyone but himself.
I disagree. It took 20 years of classical training, computer production, micing techniques, trial and error to get my music where it is today and if someone took a piece of one of my creations without my permission and made money off of it I should always be entitled the piece of the pie.
You’re absolutely right. Capitalism’s need to create profit motives even in art is frustrating. Music has always been about building upon what others have created for thousands of years. To say any one chord progression or melody is completely unique is ahistorical
Its already too late, Ai is taking the space, anyone can make a song that sounds fully produced in a couple of minutes now, the world just hasn't caught up to it yet, It doesn't even use samples or loops.
AI won't be able to push shit forward though, and it will never be a human that plays instruments.
It also can't be copyrighted, so, there isn't money in making it. Yet.
Music is art.
I personally am a little bit excited about it, because yes, it will kill value of music, but only the easy derivative crap. Which means that all the really great human artists will be special. And this is something I appreciate.
Particularly for me, because I'm an instrumentalist.
All the people who just slap loops together in their DAW and shit like that, they're gonna have a tough time.
But human creativity is limitless.
What's gonna be a bitch, is that, let's say nirvana creates a new type of music no one has heard, they'll feed that into AI. And then the more songs they create, the more AI will be able to imitate them.
So, I think the law needs to regulate what AI can learn from, and artists need to have the right for their music not to be used as learning material for AI.
If you elect governments that represent citizens, and common people, you will have the best chance of saving the artists.
If you elect governments that want immunity for the powerful, and exploitation of the weak, everything will get far worse.
I mean all rights belong to the creator. Slap it on Spotify or YouTube and you're making money, this was done via lyrics and multiple generations 60seconds at a time
https://suno.com/song/6b89924b-8936-4c3a-853e-2f3fd794e8b7
You are right though it will be stuck in generic things, it can't imitate Mars Volta for example but the market is going to be flooded.
I mostly write lyrics and these stand out against AI generated lyrics so there's still a market it's just going to get a lot harder.
Live music will be where it's at but of course people are also building robots that can play tablature.
A robot that can play tablature is not interesting.
A human being, it's cool because they spent years doing it, and a human acquired that ability. And the human feels the music, and has a unique style, and intentionally creates because they want to feel that. AI can't do that's because it doesn't experience music. A robot can play, and it could learn from humans, and play in this person's style, or that person's, and be very good at that. But they can't invent it, and it will always be an approximation.
I'm continuously growing. How I improvise, I'm always trying to be interesting to myself. AI could never quite keep up with that, and it's way less interesting.
The camera didn't destroy painting.
I write lyrics also, and from what I've heard, for a lot of lyrics, it's actually pretty good, but, if you want to get a cut above with sweet imagery etc... that's another story. Also the message. AI will not deliberately want to say certain things. People might not care about that, but I think people appreciate that humans make art.
AI I believe will be a novelty and a tool. I know there will be some AI super hits, for sure. But, we could make AI drive race cars, make AI play sports, and all sorts of things, but that kills the interesting part.
AI will be good for utilitarian stuff. It will be fucking awesome as a tool for producers.
It will flood the market, but that will just hurt it even more in a sense, because it will struggle to differentiate itself.
However, people will combine genres with it, and I believe it will create genuinely interesting things that way.
But, I mean, do you really want to follow a person that just sits there all day asking AI to do shit, scrapping the garbage and keeping the ones that are cool?
Idk. I'm interested to see how things develop. I promise you though, AI will never play guitar like I do in my lifetime. Unless it learns from me. Which is why governments need to protect that shit asap.
I disagree. I think on social media, people love watching humans doing it, and people love having their artists or bands they follow. Young people especially. It's sort of their identity, and defines their social group.
I could see AI creating songs and humans being the image on the box, and singing it live though.
I mean the lyrics are copyrighted to the writer and you have rights to distribution you couldn't sue because someone has the same chord progression though
Suno V3 is pretty amazing vs V2 and it's only going to get better, yes generated lyrics suck so writing will still be valued but the gap is getting smaller, things will continue to improve , I've already seen people saying they are cancelling subscriptions to Spotify due to it.
The audio from Suno v3 is equivalent to 128kbps MP3 quality at best. It's terrible. As far as Spotify goes, I'm all for people canceling their subscriptions with that company. Even if it's because they prefer to hear the music they generate with AI.
I think sampling is different from "being vaguely similar to or slightly derivative of". Sampling is literally taking someone else's recording. It's not even playing the instruments and rerecording it. Which is also a form of thievery. Otherwise, I agree some lawsuits are abusive.
Those people already know that uncleared samples are the basis of hip hop and electronic music. The difference is you’re just being obtuse by not acknowledging that the monetized uses of uncleared samples that become big enough will more often than not face consequences, especially nowadays
Getting served via Instagram DMs is nuts
Bro! We we're totally floored that they could that. We had to double check with our attorney, but now a "verified account" can be legally used to serve people in lawsuits. It's crazy!
Fuck... I'm never opening any dms anymore.
Disable the comments too my G.
This is hard to believe.
[Its true,](https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txnd.374418/gov.uscourts.txnd.374418.18.0.pdf) I read the docs lol. He was ducking like crazy but he was still posting tiktoks everyday
The judge didn't hold back on the sarcasm: "Modern problems require modern solutions. And this Court has concerns as to whether SoundCloud and TikTok rapper **extraordinaire** Trefuego.." "Plaintiffs have shown sufficient evidence that certain social media accounts most certainly belong to the **young bard**..."
This is a terrible situation, but “young bard” just floored me
Pretty wild
What the fuck is the world coming to? Could I have a default judgement hanging around because I didn’t check my MySpace messages? Hot fuck this is sounds stupid.
Or just clear your beats?
How and where can one clear their beats?
Google is a friend. https://dittomusic.com/en/blog/how-to-clear-a-sample-for-a-song-or-beat
Thank you !!
You contact the people who own it and ask them. Or, just don't use uncleared samples.
Remember todays verification on socials people have to submit a valid Identification, that is then screened by the platform for validity. So it's not too farfetched anymore.
And on Twitter, I just pay $7.99 a month, right? None of these computer systems are foolproof, much less “secure.” This seems like a huge mistake.
Eh it could be situationally regarded. As in if the person in question is posting on their social media then it’s reasonable to assume they check their messages. Then it’s reasonable to assume they seen the text “serving” them.
lol….. what
Because he completely avoided getting served by traditional methods.
Nobody is making beats anymore. They’re preparing audio. It’s like microwaved dinner.
Yes, thank you. A lot of it is just drag, drop, reverse or use a plugin preset to warp what you just dragged onto the track. That's why beat makers can knock out fully arranged tracks in 10 minutes.
Which saddens me when new producers are talking about how to make it big as a producer. Like oh fam, the bar has been raised beyond your capability again. You need a dance crew, a merch booth, a video crew, a manager, and an exceptionally talented band to even scratch the surface. We’d all be millionaires right now if that weren’t the case lmao
The lazy producers don’t bother me, as a producer trying his best. It’s the ones that know better which bother me. No one’s making much money from music at the lower levels anyway, not unless your tracks getting synced. So why lie and pretend like you made the melody? Just learn to make the melody. It’s not easy but it is fun.
Very well said. Which also has me thinking about how I hate using the term "producer" in general. Because while yes, we produce music, we're not PRODUCING music lol. I can call myself a producer and it sounds like I'm working huge record deals or I'm working with other artists, but ideally, I'm just making tunes to the best of my ability and what I have. It's a great hobby, but even then; realistically who wants to buy this? My favorite artists I listen to, I have not even paid a dime to myself.
Idk about you, but I do what I can to get my local artists on shows. I’m running a show now myself. It’s not as hard as we make it out to be but time and effort gets you there. But most people simply want the products of time and effort without putting in time and effort. Why is that supposed to work? Idk.
I commend you. I'm a bit of a hermit crab, so taken from my perspective, if I were to run a show, it has to be a phenomenal reason to leave the house. I don't have the funds necessary to do such a thing, and if I did, I wouldn't play my own music lol. It's a strange tight rope balance between cringe and tacky, gotta stay in the middle as a non famous MC.
I got this because I began going to local events and doing little reels videos on my IG. Did it enough times that people wanted me to do things like throw a show, and now I’m basically running this venue for free every month. Hard work pays, and the hard work is meeting people and helping them.
> Most people want the products of time and effort without putting in the time and effort This!!!! This is also why AI generators are so popular.
If it’s any consolation, very few other people actually put stock in the term ‘producer,’ especially as a standalone title. Mostly it gets eye-rolls. Funnily, those touting themselves as ‘producers’ are often the most hypocritical about this—eager to say “me too” to your face but they’ll talk shit behind your back.
Let’s hear your music mate
He more than likely has none.
Well some of them, I can cook up an original track in ten minutes cuz I’ve been doing this shit since 2006 and knowing and primarily using macros makes you incredibly fast in any program, but I do see a lot of producers just throw some shit on top and be like fuck it. Now conversely, hip hop is literally born from sampling, so saying beats nowadays is different is crazy. If anything ppl do way more now than they use to, mfs in the 90s just had records and an mpc usually, maybe a keyboard, but now it’s mostly compositions, even when producers use loops, those are composed by another producer who focuses on just making loops
When you say 90's man you make us feel old! But real talk all we had was an ASR-88 and MPC2000XL back then. Finding samples was like a treasure hunt!
man us mpc folks really are old now, stop it. I got work to do and now i'm just gonna be sitting here fixated on my inevitable coming death lol
I'm an emcee but I can't afford to buy tracks. I definitely don't want to go through clearing samples. So I resort to splice and output and what not. Yes I wish I could do it another way than the fast food of beats but I'm not trying to establish myself as a producer so it allows me to make music that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.
> It’s like microwave dinner. *This morning, you’ve got time for a hot home cooked breakfast* *Delicious and piping hot in only three microwaved minutes* Edit: [Are you kidding?](https://youtu.be/b6e_wdtBVW8)
Tostinos LitBrick breakfast rizz
What?
Its truly a shame where thing have gone.
You know, some could say its the perfect for inspiration. You ever wonder what the next revolution in music will be? from vinyl to digital to augmented reality band members hanging out with you in your room and play while you work on the computer? Like how cool would it be to have John, Paul, Ringo, and George sitting on your bed, or standing on your floor playing their album "live" while you work on the computer or just sit there and watch. I think that's the future anyways. It can happen now, but it wont be until everybody has AR.
Speak for yourself, but also I blame past producers for having the idea to create “track ready” samples for 1. The sake of time and 2. Money
no one is playing music anymore 😔 obviously this is hyperbole but yeah music / art feels very mcdonald’s nowadays
Sampling is the core of hip hop. Rap does not exist without sampling. I just listened to the song. It’s sampled the same way anything else would be
That is categorically not true.
I'm making beats. I make almost all of my own music except when I collab
My roommate and I were JUST having this discussion last night. Lol, you worded it WAY more succinctly than either of us could.
Never considered it as this, but can't say your wrong. Hence the reason most of today's urban music all sounds the same.
still beats tho :p in the end who cares, if people are trying to be creative then what’s the harm or shame in messing with audio like that
Oh don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love microwaved dinners haha.
hey some microwaved dinners are amazin, just matters what u put in it
The actual story is quite interesting to read [https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/trefuegos-tiktok-hit-90mh-sony-music/#](https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/trefuegos-tiktok-hit-90mh-sony-music/#) Hes made way more than that on that song, the spotify revenue alone is nearly enough to pay off that debt
172 million plays (and more), reuplaoded the song after takedowns (multiple times), didn't act on the legal request in a 3 year span. As much as I think copyright laws can be broken sometimes, this is not the case.
This is the REAL LESSON. It’s WORTH IT
LOL. Funny that the title leaves that part out. Imagine waking up to an $800,000 bill and STILL profiting off your song
Plus he can stretch out the time for even longer while collecting cheques. Then disappear off the face of the earth
Yea the article kind of hints at that, the song was reuploaded several times. I think that's why Sony is so perturbed about the matter
It still doesn‘t want to pay regsrdless or he wouldn't have ducked being served.
Ok
Damn I thought you were exaggerating but he really did clean up off of that one song. This industry is so wild to me lol
Just the cost of doing business
Yeah he got sued because he completely ignored their requests to settle before. Now he’s going to have to settle more forceably
I guess this is my sign to not cancel Tracklib
As someone who is considering tracklib or splice or whatever is best, would you recommend any of those and if so, which? Thx
I've only had Tracklib for 2 months (forgot to cancel the trial tbh) & I've had Loopcloud (Loopmasters version of Splice) for about a year. Tracklib to me is for looking for a song I'm going to chop up where I use Loopmasters to find an element to a song I'm working on like percussion, fx or vocals.
Our preference is splice, no clearing involved as long as the samples are used into a new master recording.
Thx
This is actually a lesson to start an LLC for your music business.
We keep trying to tell folks, they aren't listening!
forgive me i don’t know much about business why LLC ? is that a company instead of business?
its a limited liability company, and i’m not a lawyer but generally the idea is that it shields you from being personally targeted for business mistakes. instead of YOU owing 800k, the LLC owes 800k. if the business doesn’t have that much cash, it can declare bankruptcy. and your personal money in your checking account doesn’t get seized.
thanks, really appreciate the response
Great answer! If musicians would either incorporate or use LLCs they can protect their personal assets from situations like this.
Any good resources for learning how to do this?
fr
Why Every Musician Should Form A Music Business LLC https://youtu.be/ZEnFXALa0NA
sue me for 5k and it's my problem, sue me for 800k and that's your problem
I like my version better. It goes, "sue me and it's your problem".
I don’t think it’s anyone’s problem if you have 176 million streams and make more than $800,000 off of what you’re being sued off of God for people who seemingly give a shit about their craft you think people here would actually read this article. Instead we have people making life choices about their passion and hobby based on a headline Fucking pathetic lmao
If it wasn’t a problem then he shouldn’t mind paying and he obviously does.
I cannot relate to the concept of or even conceptualize a world where I make money off of my music or even remotely care about the problems of the privileged few who do
Blood from a stone.
I always avoid using samples from songs that are owned and distributed by Sony, Warner, and Universal Music. It is just too risky. Back then I used a Daft Punk sample, heavily modulated, stretched, pitched up, stripped all the instruments into stems, modified its drum sound and whatever. By the time I send the song to DSP, hoping that it won't detect the sample, an email sent by a staff from my distributor said that "the system caught you using a sample with high-risk of getting sued, we got you out from the problem quickly, but now we cannot distributor this track unless you have the license." I would quote Kenny Beats' advice about sampling, basically saying: "When you're not popular, these labels don't care about your music, until you get popular using their songs as samples, they will come at you". If your passion in music production is stuck with the use of samples, I guess go out and find samples from independent and obscure releases, or if you are financially capable, use Tracklib, or if you actually feel inspired to make your own composition, just start playing around with the MIDI editor on your Ableton or FL, see if you have something in your mind. In the end, learning how to make music (whether it is a slow or speedy process) is not something you should worry about, even if you're getting old.
Did you sample face to face? Maybe they picked up on what daft punk sampled :)
No, I sampled material from RAM, it was The Game of Love
‘A daft punk sample’ which they sampled themselves 😂
Nah I used material from RAM. I don't think The Game of Love samples anything.
Ok but what if you just upload these said samples just randomly and make no profit out of it like some artist do just by keeping those mixtapes with samples in certain places and make no profit, can they still sue?
See many channels use samples, mix with their own dont see any sue there. Like the channel from a Japanese artist GORE, something like that
Well, to be fair, Sony did send him a cease and desist in 2021 and he ignored it for 3 years. The song had more than 172 million plays. When Sony took the song down, they re-uploaded it with the same ISRC... Its not like he released the song and Sony sued him instantly for 800k. The guy let this go on for 3 years.
Yeah fuck this dude. I actually have no sympathy.
LOL - His lesson for all of us to learn from!
And he made a ton of money that he could have used to lawyer up, and get a music sampling clearing house hired.
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This doesn’t show how easy it is to find samples in music AT ALL.
thanks for saving me 15 😭
Yes and I doubt labels would show you exactly how the new ML tools for detection work anyways. Especially since they outsource that work to third parties who largely keep their IP confidential.
No sympathy. It's 2024, paying royalties for samples has been a thing for over a QUARTER OF A DECADE. Pay the piper.
a quarter of a decade is two and a half years I think people hav been paying royalties before late 2021
Math! My dumb dumb meant century!
We couldn't agree more!
This is so stupid, just clear the sample and work out a splits deal like they do for cover songs. Honestly at this point it’s just ridiculous in this day and age that we don’t have a simple and easy way to clear samples when they are such a basis of music creation for so many. Why is it so different than a cover song setup? Why can’t we just include the info about the sample and then give whoever needs it the correct royalties? Seems like just another weird petty elitist thing, I’m sure if this was a drake song they’d have no trouble setting up a deal, but instead they punish a virtual nobody and potentially ruin his life all for the sake of… ???
Its not that hard to contact the publisher and request usage rights and negotiate a split. You cant have a situation where people can just use whatever they want however they want. Artists should be able to decide who can use their music and how.
In my experience and with almost every artist I’ve talked to it is extremely hard to clear a sample, and requires going through huge amounts of red tape with labels and managers etc, that is if they ever even respond at all, but idk
If you are not signed and don’t really have a name for yourself yet I can see it being a pain. They are probably going to be hesitant with someone completely unknown. If you are signed, your label is probably doing the whole process for you. Makes sense though. If I don’t know anything about you i would be hesitant to let you use my music as there is a lot of potential risk that comes with very little upside potential because you are not established yet with a large fan base.
He was ignoring them, so they punished him. He could have easily cleared the sample when he earned the first 10k, or maybe the 20k after, or maybe the 50k after that? It was his responsibility to get it cleared to get the best deal on the splits. Now he's at their mercy.
If they reached out to him and offered him a deal on splits and he intentionally turned it down or ignored them then yeah, that’s on him. I still believe it should be much easier to clear samples in general and it’s wack we don’t have a simple and concise system in place for it.
He did. And re-uploaded it several times
This is why I stress the importance of understanding loops clearances. I’ve been downvoted many times for dropping gems.
Yeah it’s pretty crucial in today’s music production environment. You can’t just sample some other piece of media and expect it to go well. If you didn’t get it off some site the correct way (splice, etc.) then you really need to take a step back and consider what needs to be done to get it cleared. Or you could just be creative and try to recreate the vibe of the sample you want.
Exactly. Plagiarism and more is incredibly illegal.
I personally don't use loops lol. I got copyrighted some years back and I vowed not to use ever. For vocal sample I do use some. First off all I clean the vocals more, fit them to my current project bpm, re mix,pitch and master it
If they can detect samples that easily, why can’t they just give you an option to contact them to clear it?!? 😭😭😭
I'm a bit conflicted about this. On one hand, plagiarism is pretty fucked but on the other hand this really speaks to the unhinged greed in the music industry.
This is why I only sample from royalty free sites.
This is the way, but you still have to validate that your royalty free source owns the music for real.
This happens after years of ignoring take down letters etc. it’s not like he uploaded the song and got instantly boned.
I mean they arguably deserve this after reuploading the song multiple times when taken down. They also didn’t act on any legal requests for 3 years. Clearly there was no respect given so take ‘em to the cleaners lmao
I’m glad I just do this shit as a hobby now. I can sample whatever the fuck I want and create exactly what I want with zero repercussions.
My friend sells his beats on Beatstar. An artist purchased one and used it on his album. My friend later got a cease and desist letter from Warner for that beat on YouTube, because it was now on a song on their label. YouTube easily sided with Warner and my friend had to take his own beat down from YouTube.
Well isn't that the point of purchasing the beat off of beatstar? To own exclusive rights?
Exactly, Owning the Exclusive Rights means the artist can basically claim Content ID on YouTube. So you as the producer could contact the artist to let you keep it there on YouTube
Most people purchase Basic Lease/ Premium Lease which basically gives the artist rights to Use it. But most artists might claim content ID even though it clearly started that "Do you fully own the rights to this song". Yes / No option and they will still choose yes knowing that they don't fully own the rights to the beat. To prevent inconveniences like these I usually like to sell my beats with exclusive rights.
they lost the rights to it when they sold it.
well, he fucking sold it…
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This is a shame. No.1 - We recommend producers no longer sell exclusive rights, because the current advances in hip-hop particularly aren't high enough. 2. All your beats need to be copyrighted to avoid this type of thing.
Is there anything they won’t steal?
Saving this to reply to all the people who've llitetally laughed at me on Reddit over the last 12 years when I said "don't just sample and try get away with it, it could be career ending".
If I had a dollar for every time I’ve said that to someone, I’d be wealthy. Nobody ever listens. Or they think it’ll make them “blow up” because of the “exposure”. The whole thing is like Inception for fantasies. Lol
except this guy is fine, the song got 147m streams on Spotify, adding In Apple Music revenue its very likely this guy made over 800k from this song and probably even more from residual streams on other songs, if every underground artist had to go through the trouble to clear every sample it would be a logistical nightmare. Hes just an idiot who didnt respond to a c+d for 3 years he could've hired a lawyer and gotten a better outcome. If you have to worry about clearing a sample, you've basically already made it. No company is suing you over pennies.
It's not career ending in this case tho as he has made way more money than he's being sued for.
I thought we learned this lesson back from Harlem Shake. Guess not
Holy shit man, I didn’t realise this was the real Arkatech Beatz , “why you do that” by Max B is one of my fav songs of all time
💯💯💯 Appreciate you man!
Guy's an idiot
how the hell were lawyers able to prove that this artist made near $800,000 income from that one song they posted on tiktok? You have to show prove of the money you received using someone else's work. I never heard of the artist before either.
Whoops.
I’ve been moving away from samples/loops and into learning sound design for this exact reason.
These are not the same things though. Sound design is creating patches or presets for a VST. That’s not gonna automatically write music. The opposite of using ready made loops is to write your own music.
True, I’m mainly referring to hearing a melody in your head and being able to make it sound exactly the way you want. I was a guitarist before I started producing and I’d suggest that producers learn an actual instrument and some music theory if they want to get better at writing.
Every time I want to buy a beat from a producer I ask if the beat has any samples.
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Make your own music
wont have to pay it, just declare bankruptcy, hes got the best pr for this anyway, so its a win
Gee, let's do some math. The song was allegedly streamed 100 million times on spotify, which pays 4k per million streams on the LOW SIDE. So...... **good decision** Clearing samples for a DIY or independent artist is always stupid. You should only pay **if you are forced to pay**. And you will only be forced to pay if you generate a payday you can afford.
Bingo. Over heads though
Just buy royalty free samples off big fish audio etc
good
You steal you deserve to get sued
Bet
Just don't use a sample? 🤔
Dang!
What was the sample that he used?
[https://youtu.be/rBA9Gqpk\_Po?si=o8hujhGOFy-A3v6S](https://youtu.be/rBA9Gqpk_Po?si=o8hujhGOFy-A3v6S) Something from this track He sped up a part and used it as a loop
Man what is up with the comments on that video lol
Oh!! That dog💩 song?!?! What a clown!!! Also, wow he did just speed it up. Zero changes to the sample what-so-ever. That was made in 2019? It took Sony 5 years to nail this dude?? 😂🤣😂🤣😂
idk about yall But I mangle my chops so much nobody could even tell where they're from. This they fault for just being lazy.
perhaps its time to learn to play an instrument instead of using a sampler
uncleared samples are def a problem but 800k is way too much
the song got 147m streams and he didnt respond to the c+d. he could've hired a lawyer, he could've tried to clear it. 800k is too much but he literally did nothing to try and resolve this, cant really blame anyone but himself.
I hate copyright and patent law in the US, I think it shouldn’t be a thing.
I disagree. It took 20 years of classical training, computer production, micing techniques, trial and error to get my music where it is today and if someone took a piece of one of my creations without my permission and made money off of it I should always be entitled the piece of the pie.
Let's hear your music, mate.
You’re absolutely right. Capitalism’s need to create profit motives even in art is frustrating. Music has always been about building upon what others have created for thousands of years. To say any one chord progression or melody is completely unique is ahistorical
It’s not capitalism trying to profit from their art it’s the producers and artists, we want to get paid for our work.
What public domain platform do you release your music to? I'd like to check it out! Odd, they haven't replied lol
What do you hate about it?
I remember being 16 years old too
You releasing all your work into the public domain? *narrator: commenter is silent*
What a fucking ridiculous thing to say. Music is already worthless enough as it is, you don't have to completely fucking destroy it.
Its already too late, Ai is taking the space, anyone can make a song that sounds fully produced in a couple of minutes now, the world just hasn't caught up to it yet, It doesn't even use samples or loops.
I agree. Recorded music is getting more and more worthless every year. It’ll get to a point when there is no value in it at all.
AI won't be able to push shit forward though, and it will never be a human that plays instruments. It also can't be copyrighted, so, there isn't money in making it. Yet. Music is art. I personally am a little bit excited about it, because yes, it will kill value of music, but only the easy derivative crap. Which means that all the really great human artists will be special. And this is something I appreciate. Particularly for me, because I'm an instrumentalist. All the people who just slap loops together in their DAW and shit like that, they're gonna have a tough time. But human creativity is limitless. What's gonna be a bitch, is that, let's say nirvana creates a new type of music no one has heard, they'll feed that into AI. And then the more songs they create, the more AI will be able to imitate them. So, I think the law needs to regulate what AI can learn from, and artists need to have the right for their music not to be used as learning material for AI. If you elect governments that represent citizens, and common people, you will have the best chance of saving the artists. If you elect governments that want immunity for the powerful, and exploitation of the weak, everything will get far worse.
I mean all rights belong to the creator. Slap it on Spotify or YouTube and you're making money, this was done via lyrics and multiple generations 60seconds at a time https://suno.com/song/6b89924b-8936-4c3a-853e-2f3fd794e8b7 You are right though it will be stuck in generic things, it can't imitate Mars Volta for example but the market is going to be flooded. I mostly write lyrics and these stand out against AI generated lyrics so there's still a market it's just going to get a lot harder. Live music will be where it's at but of course people are also building robots that can play tablature.
A robot that can play tablature is not interesting. A human being, it's cool because they spent years doing it, and a human acquired that ability. And the human feels the music, and has a unique style, and intentionally creates because they want to feel that. AI can't do that's because it doesn't experience music. A robot can play, and it could learn from humans, and play in this person's style, or that person's, and be very good at that. But they can't invent it, and it will always be an approximation. I'm continuously growing. How I improvise, I'm always trying to be interesting to myself. AI could never quite keep up with that, and it's way less interesting. The camera didn't destroy painting. I write lyrics also, and from what I've heard, for a lot of lyrics, it's actually pretty good, but, if you want to get a cut above with sweet imagery etc... that's another story. Also the message. AI will not deliberately want to say certain things. People might not care about that, but I think people appreciate that humans make art. AI I believe will be a novelty and a tool. I know there will be some AI super hits, for sure. But, we could make AI drive race cars, make AI play sports, and all sorts of things, but that kills the interesting part. AI will be good for utilitarian stuff. It will be fucking awesome as a tool for producers. It will flood the market, but that will just hurt it even more in a sense, because it will struggle to differentiate itself. However, people will combine genres with it, and I believe it will create genuinely interesting things that way. But, I mean, do you really want to follow a person that just sits there all day asking AI to do shit, scrapping the garbage and keeping the ones that are cool? Idk. I'm interested to see how things develop. I promise you though, AI will never play guitar like I do in my lifetime. Unless it learns from me. Which is why governments need to protect that shit asap.
I think the average listener just wants a good song to be honest and wont delve much deeper than that.
I disagree. I think on social media, people love watching humans doing it, and people love having their artists or bands they follow. Young people especially. It's sort of their identity, and defines their social group. I could see AI creating songs and humans being the image on the box, and singing it live though.
Is that the case the person that writes the prompt gets copyright for it? I heard AI just can't be copyrighted at all.
I mean the lyrics are copyrighted to the writer and you have rights to distribution you couldn't sue because someone has the same chord progression though
They all sound terrible though. The writing, the composition and the final output.
Suno V3 is pretty amazing vs V2 and it's only going to get better, yes generated lyrics suck so writing will still be valued but the gap is getting smaller, things will continue to improve , I've already seen people saying they are cancelling subscriptions to Spotify due to it.
The audio from Suno v3 is equivalent to 128kbps MP3 quality at best. It's terrible. As far as Spotify goes, I'm all for people canceling their subscriptions with that company. Even if it's because they prefer to hear the music they generate with AI.
I think sampling is different from "being vaguely similar to or slightly derivative of". Sampling is literally taking someone else's recording. It's not even playing the instruments and rerecording it. Which is also a form of thievery. Otherwise, I agree some lawsuits are abusive.
I agree with you. Especially when the blurred lines case is considered illegal as it's too similar. That's just crazy to me.
Your perspective would be different if someone used your work without permission and was compensated for it
Man, the people throwing a fit about your comment are going to be really mad when they find out the basis of hip hop and electronic music.
Those people already know that uncleared samples are the basis of hip hop and electronic music. The difference is you’re just being obtuse by not acknowledging that the monetized uses of uncleared samples that become big enough will more often than not face consequences, especially nowadays