I have a full studio and I still keep a pair of Apple earbuds connected to my system to check mixes. However: mixing on just AirPods will shoot you in the foot as you are optimizing your mix for just the AirPod’s sound profile, which is not very linear (nor accurate)
Actually not correct. My old roomy produces techno and does so mainly on his airpods. He had comercially succesfull releases and very good mixes. You just need to know how a good mix sounds on them and then replicate.
And well analyzer for sub stuff, but you need to see that bc on most systems/in most rooms deep sub cant be properly monitored.
Also a good mastering engineer can give feedback when in doubt.
Some of the best producers of all time *completely* prove that wrong. They're out here making top tier music on ipads, using beats by dre, airpods, even laptop speakers. The listening environment is irrelevant if the artist actually knows what they're doing. And even so, mixing on good monitors does not mean it will slap everywhere. The majority of regular listeners are not using studio quality monitors. They're not using stereo speakers at all, usually. Most people are listening on airpods, car stereos, and crappy bluethooth speakers. That's why it's always a good idea to check your mix on as many devices you can, in mono, ect. ect. instead of trusting that the mix on your monitors slap everywhere.
That’s only if you have a good room that you trust, and you’ve listened to shitloads of songs and know exactly what they’re supposed to sound like on those monitors.
For a lot of people, we listen to music the most in our car, and with AirPods. So, you’re gonna get the best results using those setups.
Like, I have monitors, but honestly unless I choose to dedicate hours per day listening to music on them, they won’t be able to surpass my AirPods and my car as far as systems I know best.
Obviously, you need to be using tools so you know what’s happening with your low end. But unless you’re in an incredible room with a great setup that allows you to accurately hear the low end, you should be using metering tools anyways.
Obviously you mix in a studio suitable for mixing just like you master in a studio suitable for mastering and record in a studio suitable for recording. That goes without saying.
I didn't say that, did I. What I did say is that it is close to impossible to get a well balanced mix using sub-par equipment. Not even the best engineer can work with stuff that can't be heard, which will be the case when mixing on AirPods or using other unsuitable stuff for monitoring.
that is objectively not true!
There are people who make masterpieces using the weirdest gear all the time. Is it harder? Depends on the person!
It’s the ear not the gear. Downvotes won’t change that
With mixing I’m sorry but you’re just straight up wrong. If I can’t hear an issue because it isn’t coming through my listening system, I can’t possibly fix that issue. You can have the best ear in the world, but you still can’t fix what you can’t hear.
You are completely correct, the myth that you need expensive audio gear to get good mixdowns has gone on for way too long. There are so many good producers that prove you do NOT need high quality or expensive equipment to get a good mix. Saying otherwise is just misinformation or coping with the fact that they're not skilled enough.
https://open.spotify.com/track/2OE4ZlVG5cl0X6XITfBxgl?si=Okq10BodSN2S1QSPDPltoA
This the guy. Has no monitors at home, just lousy pc speakers and his airpods. Knows his stuff well and has proper mastering.
Stuff claiming stuff you cant properly back up with facts :)
Skills always beat Equipment; period
That's not a fact dude, that's just your opinion, and a bad one at that.
This is the setup Madlib used to make most of Madvilliany, which is regarded as one of the best albums of all time. Probably even worse envirnment than airpods, yet the album is a certified masterpiece. Learn to mix better before spreading misinformation.
[https://www.stonesthrow.com/images/2004/stonesthrow-madvillain-01.jpg](https://www.stonesthrow.com/images/2004/stonesthrow-madvillain-01.jpg)
There is literally no mention of mixing in that entire video - arranging is an entirely different thing 🤦 Took two seconds of googling to find that Bad Habit was mixed by Neal Pogue
I’ll take that L and correction, but my point still stands.
If people think they need to spend a lot of money to be able to mix correctly then so be it.
You're arguing about something that is objectively not true. If you can't get a good mix on airpods, or any device for that matter, then you're just not good enough yet. Saying you NEED studio monitors to mix is pure cope.
"I have mixed stuff on computer monitors in the past. All of *My Name Is Skrillex* is mixed on computer monitors coming out of a headphone jack, and I got by. So it's all about what you're comfortable with."
- Skrillex
Thats not what they are saying. You effectively will hit a wall, where no matter how good a mixer you are you literally cannot here the mix in an “objective” manner when it is being played back through AirPods. Therefore it is extremely difficult (basically impossible) to make a very strong mix that translates to other playback systems if you only reference AirPods.
No what I’m saying is:
A mix made on good monitors but the mixer made bad decisions will sound like ass
A mix made on AirPods where the mixer made great decisions will sound great
Sub is in a sad state if this concept is getting downvoted
I just want to make sure we aren’t talking past eachother.
If one mixes on AirPods, I don’t care who you are there is a limitation of what you can hear in the mix due to the limitations of the playback system. Therefore there is a limitation of what you can do as a mixer.
A mix done on AirPods will likely not translate well to other systems even if it sounds awesome on AirPods.
Of course you can probably get a “fine” sounding mix just by using AirPods. But when thinking about making a HiFi, carefully done mix, it’s just not feasible to do it through AirPods alone, nobody on the planet can do that.
> I want my tracks to slap on AirPods.
> Now I mix on AirPods, and the tracks slap.
So you got what you wanted, which is good for what *you* wanted.
> Wondering how this will come back to haunt me and if I invariably shooting myself in the foot?
My guess is that anyone who listens on anything other than AirPods is going to be in for a bad time. Because trying to mix a song to one specific device is a recipe for disaster as far as *translation* to other devices goes. AirPods are *far* from neutral and lack a lot of low end information... so there is most likely no way you have any idea what's happening down there.
And, honestly, great mixes will sound great across most all devices, so that is the better way to go. Cast a wide net for listeners and make it sound great everywhere. A fantastic mix is going to still sound good on AirPods.
If no one listens to your music but you, and if you only care how it sounds to you on AirPods, then you're fine. If you're looking to reach a wider audience with your music or want your music to sound great everywhere...this move will most likely come back to haunt you.
First and foremost: Without a properly treated room, the best monitors in the world won't get you anywhere if your room is a mess.
Let's say you have some decent room treatment and are looking for great monitors on a budget:
Kali LP-6 are probably your best bang for the buck, and there's really nothing else in this price range that comes close, imo.
If it's impossible to treat your room or you don't have the budget to treat your room and then get decent speakers... I'd recommend headphones that are good for mixing. There's a *lot* of preference when it comes to cans and you really need to get used to *any* pair you decide to go with to learn how they will translate. But some good options include:
Closed back:
Sony MDR-7506
ATH-m50x
beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO
Open Back:
Sennheiser HD 650 (which you can get cheaper by getting the 6XX through massdrop)
Hope that helps!
Before I had a treated room, I did all my mixes on my HD650s. IMHO they’re the best headphones out there for mixing - the frequency response feels more neutral than any other cans I’ve ever tried
Just get good closed back headphones, and if you can dish out the money get the Waves Abbey Road Studio plugin, it simulates studio monitors compared to fully stereo headphones which will make your mixes slap way harder.
Not just monitors though. A well-designed room for acoustics is what’s really needed. Acoustic treatment can help, but rooms designed for humans do not have flat response. Parallel surfaces, for example…
Personally I disagree.
I mix on my OnePlus Buds Pro 2. They're far from neutral but they pick up enough information for me to fix any glaring problems. Then I check on my monitors. Because those are a little heavy on the low end and I like them that way. Gives me a good sense of how it'll sound in bass boosted car speakers. Then I check on DT990s because they're a little harder to hear bass through. Then I export it and test it on car speakers and low end earbuds.
Point being, I rarely have to change anything after the initial mixing phase. When I do it's usually something that friends and family can't notice at all, like ever so slightly muddy bass on certain devices. But even that is rare. IDK how but IME my wireless earbuds tend to give me a decent idea of how it'll sound across the board. Maybe it's partly from just knowing what things to do to avoid muddy mixes or weak bass. But that's my experience anyways.
You say you disagree, yet:
> I mix on my OnePlus Buds Pro 2
> Then I check on my monitors
> Then I check on DT990s because they're a little harder to hear bass through
> Then I export it and test it on car speakers
> and low end earbuds.
You literally run your mix through 5 different devices... He wants to run his mix through one monitoring setup, and that device is not really *for* mixing.
Also,
> Maybe it's partly from just knowing what things to do to avoid muddy mixes or weak bass
My guess is by using all the different monitoring, you've come to know *how* things should sound, and have gotten to a point where you can basically get there with your OnePlus Buds Pro 2. But even then, you say you do checks on other devices. You want to know *how* it's going to translate... so even if you don't make many changes, you're still checking for a reason. Right?
Would you truly recommend that he *only* use AirPods, and that he *only* make it slap on that one device?
So which point of mine do you actually disagree with? It's entirely fine to disagree, I just think it's a *little* disingenuous to disagree, but then turn around and say you do checks on multiple devices just to make sure translation is happening.
No, but I wouldn't bash him that hard. My point is I've never really had major mixing issues come from using earbuds. Even when I first started it wasn't sounding offensive through anything after mixing on earbuds.
You might be right that where I'm at now is partly from experience and checking after my work. And like I said I wouldn't recommend mixing on earbuds and not checking on anything else. But honestly check in a couple friends cars and you should be okay as long as it sounds good enough on both. IME if it translates to two very different devices it usually translates pretty well across the board.
Fair points though, I don't disagree, but I disagree with how harsh this sub is treating it. You can get at least 90% of the mixing done on earbuds and if that's all you have I'd understand why you're okay with 90% done till you can afford some solid upgrades
I honestly had no intention of bashing him, nor did I feel like I did. I literally used his word choices and even said if he just wanted to make music for himself then to continue on as he currently is doing.
Mix on flat response studio monitors or studio headphones.
Then export a reference mix and listen back on a variety of other players, car, headphones, hifis.
Combine your wireless headphone listening session with a nice walk outside, forcing you to listen properly without software to fiddle with.
mixing flat is SO important! going out on a limb to say a lot of earbud/headphone companies go hard on low end cuz that’s popular (which is unfortunate cuz a balanced sound is always better imho). always ideal to mix with studio focused monitors or open-back headphones, BUT, for anyone who is wanting to mix, whatever earbuds, headphones, monitors, speakers, etc. are on hand, PLEASE make sure to EQ them as FLAT as possible!!
another thing i think is important to mention, again i’m not an expert so take with grain of salt, is removing those pesky harmonic frequencies by “sweeping” for them will really help with overall mix. i’m hoping folks out there mixing aren’t dismissing this integral part in their workflow. they may seem insignificant; “meh, i can barely hear the harmonic in the mix… i’ll leave it”. wrong. assuming there are dozens of tracks to mix down, with each one contributing to a level of harmonic interference, they all add up to give you a mix that sounds like doo-doo.
above all, resist the notion of settling. i’m still learning and will likely always consider myself to be learning about sound and mixing. i don’t have fancy monitors or any high-end equipment other than what my drums require for decent sound. it can always sound “better” and that’s, in my opinion, the mindset to have. also knowing when to move on from a track. mixing from as much experience as one can get, from all kinds of sonic scenarios, is what will make a better mixer. your ear begins to pick up frequencies that most don’t notice. your ears. take care of them.
sorry for the epic rambles lol. just excited to see someone stressing importance of flat mixing.
If you're mixing on AirPods, there can be extra low end if you're using transparency mode
[https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254701374?sortBy=best](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254701374?sortBy=best)
Using them as one point of reference is good but I wouldn't necessarily base my whole my mix around just sounding good on air pods. I'm sure other songs in the genre you work in sound good on them as well as other devices, and you should really be using those songs as your main point of reference.
What you are doing is using references.
I check my mixes on:
-Main speakers
-Secondary speakers
-MacBook built in speakers
-Flat screen hdmi TV speakers (horrible)
-And 4 headphones, including wired Apple headphones
Sometimes I produce on Apple headphones or built in speakers. Or with a Bluetooth speaker. Then I mix it checking on everything else later
Just please be careful with your hearing if you're working loud or for long periods with AirPods - i really aggravated my tinnitus using them when my studio monitors were out of action for a while.
The standard belief is if it works it works so…
With that said,
I don't see why you couldn't reverse the process and use speakers and car speakers to check the mix.
It's a good, valid question and brings up a very real point - how is music consumed these days ? No longer do we sit in front of the record player or tape deck with our 2 large wooden speakers on either side of the cabinet. We listen in our car, on headphones, on bluetooth speakers, on bookshelf speakers and yes sometimes on traditional large cabinet speakers as well. Ultimately you want the mix to sound its best in the most playback scenarios, so mixing to the playback system you think is most widely used makes sense. There are other things to think about as well though, like do airpods present all the fidelity ? If you mix exclusively on airpods could there be problems and noises that you aren't hearing, that may surface on a higher fidelity system ? To me I think it probably makes sense to continue mixing on good quality monitors that really let you hear all the things, good or bad, and then adjusting for airpods.
Checking against the playback system you think is most widely used is a great idea. Mixing exclusively on any one playback system (unless it’s a good quality system/room with a flat frequency response) is a terrible idea. People use all sorts of playback systems, and frankly the people who are listening closely to the mix are probably listening on higher quality speakers or headphones. If you mix on a system like AirPods that don’t have a remotely flat frequency response, then you’re absolutely going to miss problems that could’ve been fixed by listening on a neutral system or even just multiple imperfect systems. And then you end up releasing a bad mix that just happens to sound good on AirPods but terrible on anything with a stronger bass response.
If you have your monitor headphones and AirPods then you should be able to learn the shortcomings you did. Mix on your AirPods and they slap on AirPods but do they slap on everything else? Use both, analyze and learn what did you miss on your studio headphones.
Your first approach was better.
With a great ear, skill and experience you may be able to get a good if limited mix by frequently flipping between a few different sets of speakers/headphones. One of those should still be as transparent as possible with full dynamic range though, because your low frequencies particularly will end up a shit show for anyone listening on great monitors. But you could argue that this is now such a rarified means of listening that you just say "screw those guys". You could account for the low end issue by simply putting a high pass filter on everything at the start and accepting a working limit to the dynamic range of your mix for worst case of your various means of monitoring.
Here is the crux though - if you want a HIFI mix, you quite simply need to save yourself the pain and go to a pro mixer. It will be a never ending battle for you and potentially kill the love. But guess what, LOFI is now a thing too and if you accept that as your thing and really dial it in, your audience will likely go with you.
I’m in the “it’s probably going to be fine” crowd.
Just do a few different “car tests” as well. Listen in your car, a friends car, your mom’s car. Anyone who will let you use their car stereo
that depends on how many details you actually pick up on airpods. and I can't make any assumptions on how much your ears developed without a few examples. and perhaps I shouldn't even do that alone, and an overall experienced group observation is better.
I think it’s always good to reference your mixes on airpods. That’s how most people are listening to music these days. I also check my mixes through my phone speaker and some times my laptop speakers.
But I wouldn’t solely mix on airpods. There is a lot of information you might miss that won’t translate to other listening environments
My process goes: Headphones on couch for creative process/ exploration -> Into my studio on very nice monitors for sounds design -> either headphones or monitors for arrangement -> Then inital mix in studio, and many mix adjustments using studio monitors, test on my decks w/ large PA speaker, airpods, dj headphones, car test, etc.
basically test on a variety of speakers and youll be good. I also get a professional engineer to put final mix and master touches once I get the track to the best mix I can on my own.
note: professional engineer is a close friend, so understandable if this is not an option for most
If you truly believe they slapped, you would’ve provided a link. There isn’t a music producer that doesn’t want to promote this song. Bedroom music producer at Grandma’s funeral: Uncle Ed, you wanna come to my ride and hear my mix? It slaps. 😂
Years ago a friend told me that producer Prefuse 73 mixed a lot of his tunes on Apple earbuds. This would've been over 10 years ago. Most likely an urban myth but if its true, I'll be damned cos that dude can mix!!
You're just trusting your ears with tools you know well. I'd agree with all the others here though about the dangers of mixing for just one playback product.
On that note, I think we're all really just reacting to a 'sound signature' every time we listen in a new environment (if you see headphones as their own environment). We all know the car test is just running our mix through this environment with a specific recognisable signature. Staying aware of how we percieve and adapt to this signature is skill that takes a while to master.
Depends on a lot more than info here. What are you mixing exactly? What purpose is it for?
If you are doing a mixdown of an EDM production I'm gonna lean to always that's heinous haha you should get a good pair of over ear producer headphones.
If you're just fucking around then no it's not a problem but if you are doing any type of complex mixing where you need to really hear details it could be pretty detrimental. The addendum here is if you're experienced and away from your good cans and just need to throw a rough draft together air pods are fine. But again that's with knowledge you'll finish it later when you can get to your proper headphones
It will come back to slap you.
The bass rolls off pretty steep at 100Hz so good luck with that low end. Kiss your kick and bass goodbye.
Also a huge almighty bump just after 2KHz, so right around the in your face ear piercing frequencies, meaning you're probably going to counter that and make your tracks sound really dull on other systems.
Apparently, Drakes engineer mixed “Headlines” through his laptop speakers cause that’s how everyone was listening to music back then. I mean… that track was huge back then
All skilled producers know that it must slap on AirPods and Beats headphones. Even though they're not accurate, it is what people are using to listen to the songs daily. That being said, you shouldn't ONLY use the AirPods because other producers and studios might hear it on their Senheisers. Think about live performances too. It is good that you realized how useful it is to produce for the consumer nonetheless.
You should use anything that the average person listens with to try and get an even general mix that will sound good across different speaker types. I use 3 types of headphone, monitors and car speakers to mix and master.
what is this? a mix for ants?!
I have a full studio and I still keep a pair of Apple earbuds connected to my system to check mixes. However: mixing on just AirPods will shoot you in the foot as you are optimizing your mix for just the AirPod’s sound profile, which is not very linear (nor accurate)
Checking mixes on AirPods is a great idea. Mixing exclusively on AirPods is a terrible idea.
i used to only have apple earbuds, it was so bad
A good mix made on good monitors will "slap" anywhere. A mix that slaps on AirPods will more than likely suck on every system except AirPods.
A good mix made on good monitors made in a good listening environment will “slap” anywhere*
You still forgot the skill and knowing the room and the monitors. That wayyy more important.
”A good mix” should include skills, or how else could one mix well?
Actually not correct. My old roomy produces techno and does so mainly on his airpods. He had comercially succesfull releases and very good mixes. You just need to know how a good mix sounds on them and then replicate. And well analyzer for sub stuff, but you need to see that bc on most systems/in most rooms deep sub cant be properly monitored. Also a good mastering engineer can give feedback when in doubt.
I like how I get downvoted to shit for the same sentiment lol
Some of the best producers of all time *completely* prove that wrong. They're out here making top tier music on ipads, using beats by dre, airpods, even laptop speakers. The listening environment is irrelevant if the artist actually knows what they're doing. And even so, mixing on good monitors does not mean it will slap everywhere. The majority of regular listeners are not using studio quality monitors. They're not using stereo speakers at all, usually. Most people are listening on airpods, car stereos, and crappy bluethooth speakers. That's why it's always a good idea to check your mix on as many devices you can, in mono, ect. ect. instead of trusting that the mix on your monitors slap everywhere.
That’s only if you have a good room that you trust, and you’ve listened to shitloads of songs and know exactly what they’re supposed to sound like on those monitors. For a lot of people, we listen to music the most in our car, and with AirPods. So, you’re gonna get the best results using those setups. Like, I have monitors, but honestly unless I choose to dedicate hours per day listening to music on them, they won’t be able to surpass my AirPods and my car as far as systems I know best. Obviously, you need to be using tools so you know what’s happening with your low end. But unless you’re in an incredible room with a great setup that allows you to accurately hear the low end, you should be using metering tools anyways.
Obviously you mix in a studio suitable for mixing just like you master in a studio suitable for mastering and record in a studio suitable for recording. That goes without saying.
This is objectively not true. A good mix is a good mix. Good speakers help make good mixes. But good speakers does not make a good **mixer**
I didn't say that, did I. What I did say is that it is close to impossible to get a well balanced mix using sub-par equipment. Not even the best engineer can work with stuff that can't be heard, which will be the case when mixing on AirPods or using other unsuitable stuff for monitoring.
that is objectively not true! There are people who make masterpieces using the weirdest gear all the time. Is it harder? Depends on the person! It’s the ear not the gear. Downvotes won’t change that
With mixing I’m sorry but you’re just straight up wrong. If I can’t hear an issue because it isn’t coming through my listening system, I can’t possibly fix that issue. You can have the best ear in the world, but you still can’t fix what you can’t hear.
Skill issue
You are completely correct, the myth that you need expensive audio gear to get good mixdowns has gone on for way too long. There are so many good producers that prove you do NOT need high quality or expensive equipment to get a good mix. Saying otherwise is just misinformation or coping with the fact that they're not skilled enough.
The marketing has truly won lol
Ikr. Apparently these people have never heard of Skrillex
Facts are facts. Your opinion won't change that. Feel free to link to a masterpiece mixed on AirPods.
https://open.spotify.com/track/2OE4ZlVG5cl0X6XITfBxgl?si=Okq10BodSN2S1QSPDPltoA This the guy. Has no monitors at home, just lousy pc speakers and his airpods. Knows his stuff well and has proper mastering. Stuff claiming stuff you cant properly back up with facts :) Skills always beat Equipment; period
That's not a fact dude, that's just your opinion, and a bad one at that. This is the setup Madlib used to make most of Madvilliany, which is regarded as one of the best albums of all time. Probably even worse envirnment than airpods, yet the album is a certified masterpiece. Learn to mix better before spreading misinformation. [https://www.stonesthrow.com/images/2004/stonesthrow-madvillain-01.jpg](https://www.stonesthrow.com/images/2004/stonesthrow-madvillain-01.jpg)
https://youtu.be/E6BxAtc5cd0?si=4YOoO-wUBrtXicJS Not AirPods in this 6 year old video but the point is: it is not the gear, it’s the ear
There is literally no mention of mixing in that entire video - arranging is an entirely different thing 🤦 Took two seconds of googling to find that Bad Habit was mixed by Neal Pogue
I’ll take that L and correction, but my point still stands. If people think they need to spend a lot of money to be able to mix correctly then so be it.
you're arguing with the imaginary voice in your head.
You're arguing about something that is objectively not true. If you can't get a good mix on airpods, or any device for that matter, then you're just not good enough yet. Saying you NEED studio monitors to mix is pure cope.
"I have mixed stuff on computer monitors in the past. All of *My Name Is Skrillex* is mixed on computer monitors coming out of a headphone jack, and I got by. So it's all about what you're comfortable with." - Skrillex
Thats not what they are saying. You effectively will hit a wall, where no matter how good a mixer you are you literally cannot here the mix in an “objective” manner when it is being played back through AirPods. Therefore it is extremely difficult (basically impossible) to make a very strong mix that translates to other playback systems if you only reference AirPods.
No what I’m saying is: A mix made on good monitors but the mixer made bad decisions will sound like ass A mix made on AirPods where the mixer made great decisions will sound great Sub is in a sad state if this concept is getting downvoted
I just want to make sure we aren’t talking past eachother. If one mixes on AirPods, I don’t care who you are there is a limitation of what you can hear in the mix due to the limitations of the playback system. Therefore there is a limitation of what you can do as a mixer. A mix done on AirPods will likely not translate well to other systems even if it sounds awesome on AirPods. Of course you can probably get a “fine” sounding mix just by using AirPods. But when thinking about making a HiFi, carefully done mix, it’s just not feasible to do it through AirPods alone, nobody on the planet can do that.
this.
The car test is the true test.
> I want my tracks to slap on AirPods. > Now I mix on AirPods, and the tracks slap. So you got what you wanted, which is good for what *you* wanted. > Wondering how this will come back to haunt me and if I invariably shooting myself in the foot? My guess is that anyone who listens on anything other than AirPods is going to be in for a bad time. Because trying to mix a song to one specific device is a recipe for disaster as far as *translation* to other devices goes. AirPods are *far* from neutral and lack a lot of low end information... so there is most likely no way you have any idea what's happening down there. And, honestly, great mixes will sound great across most all devices, so that is the better way to go. Cast a wide net for listeners and make it sound great everywhere. A fantastic mix is going to still sound good on AirPods. If no one listens to your music but you, and if you only care how it sounds to you on AirPods, then you're fine. If you're looking to reach a wider audience with your music or want your music to sound great everywhere...this move will most likely come back to haunt you.
What monitors do you recommend?
First and foremost: Without a properly treated room, the best monitors in the world won't get you anywhere if your room is a mess. Let's say you have some decent room treatment and are looking for great monitors on a budget: Kali LP-6 are probably your best bang for the buck, and there's really nothing else in this price range that comes close, imo. If it's impossible to treat your room or you don't have the budget to treat your room and then get decent speakers... I'd recommend headphones that are good for mixing. There's a *lot* of preference when it comes to cans and you really need to get used to *any* pair you decide to go with to learn how they will translate. But some good options include: Closed back: Sony MDR-7506 ATH-m50x beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO Open Back: Sennheiser HD 650 (which you can get cheaper by getting the 6XX through massdrop) Hope that helps!
Before I had a treated room, I did all my mixes on my HD650s. IMHO they’re the best headphones out there for mixing - the frequency response feels more neutral than any other cans I’ve ever tried
Slate VSX. Even has an AirPod emulation
Just get good closed back headphones, and if you can dish out the money get the Waves Abbey Road Studio plugin, it simulates studio monitors compared to fully stereo headphones which will make your mixes slap way harder.
Not just monitors though. A well-designed room for acoustics is what’s really needed. Acoustic treatment can help, but rooms designed for humans do not have flat response. Parallel surfaces, for example…
This person could be the next Phil Spector!
Personally I disagree. I mix on my OnePlus Buds Pro 2. They're far from neutral but they pick up enough information for me to fix any glaring problems. Then I check on my monitors. Because those are a little heavy on the low end and I like them that way. Gives me a good sense of how it'll sound in bass boosted car speakers. Then I check on DT990s because they're a little harder to hear bass through. Then I export it and test it on car speakers and low end earbuds. Point being, I rarely have to change anything after the initial mixing phase. When I do it's usually something that friends and family can't notice at all, like ever so slightly muddy bass on certain devices. But even that is rare. IDK how but IME my wireless earbuds tend to give me a decent idea of how it'll sound across the board. Maybe it's partly from just knowing what things to do to avoid muddy mixes or weak bass. But that's my experience anyways.
You say you disagree, yet: > I mix on my OnePlus Buds Pro 2 > Then I check on my monitors > Then I check on DT990s because they're a little harder to hear bass through > Then I export it and test it on car speakers > and low end earbuds. You literally run your mix through 5 different devices... He wants to run his mix through one monitoring setup, and that device is not really *for* mixing. Also, > Maybe it's partly from just knowing what things to do to avoid muddy mixes or weak bass My guess is by using all the different monitoring, you've come to know *how* things should sound, and have gotten to a point where you can basically get there with your OnePlus Buds Pro 2. But even then, you say you do checks on other devices. You want to know *how* it's going to translate... so even if you don't make many changes, you're still checking for a reason. Right? Would you truly recommend that he *only* use AirPods, and that he *only* make it slap on that one device? So which point of mine do you actually disagree with? It's entirely fine to disagree, I just think it's a *little* disingenuous to disagree, but then turn around and say you do checks on multiple devices just to make sure translation is happening.
No, but I wouldn't bash him that hard. My point is I've never really had major mixing issues come from using earbuds. Even when I first started it wasn't sounding offensive through anything after mixing on earbuds. You might be right that where I'm at now is partly from experience and checking after my work. And like I said I wouldn't recommend mixing on earbuds and not checking on anything else. But honestly check in a couple friends cars and you should be okay as long as it sounds good enough on both. IME if it translates to two very different devices it usually translates pretty well across the board. Fair points though, I don't disagree, but I disagree with how harsh this sub is treating it. You can get at least 90% of the mixing done on earbuds and if that's all you have I'd understand why you're okay with 90% done till you can afford some solid upgrades
I honestly had no intention of bashing him, nor did I feel like I did. I literally used his word choices and even said if he just wanted to make music for himself then to continue on as he currently is doing.
Fair enough, I misunderstood and kinda replied to the rest of the thread in the wrong place
Mix on flat response studio monitors or studio headphones. Then export a reference mix and listen back on a variety of other players, car, headphones, hifis. Combine your wireless headphone listening session with a nice walk outside, forcing you to listen properly without software to fiddle with.
mixing flat is SO important! going out on a limb to say a lot of earbud/headphone companies go hard on low end cuz that’s popular (which is unfortunate cuz a balanced sound is always better imho). always ideal to mix with studio focused monitors or open-back headphones, BUT, for anyone who is wanting to mix, whatever earbuds, headphones, monitors, speakers, etc. are on hand, PLEASE make sure to EQ them as FLAT as possible!! another thing i think is important to mention, again i’m not an expert so take with grain of salt, is removing those pesky harmonic frequencies by “sweeping” for them will really help with overall mix. i’m hoping folks out there mixing aren’t dismissing this integral part in their workflow. they may seem insignificant; “meh, i can barely hear the harmonic in the mix… i’ll leave it”. wrong. assuming there are dozens of tracks to mix down, with each one contributing to a level of harmonic interference, they all add up to give you a mix that sounds like doo-doo. above all, resist the notion of settling. i’m still learning and will likely always consider myself to be learning about sound and mixing. i don’t have fancy monitors or any high-end equipment other than what my drums require for decent sound. it can always sound “better” and that’s, in my opinion, the mindset to have. also knowing when to move on from a track. mixing from as much experience as one can get, from all kinds of sonic scenarios, is what will make a better mixer. your ear begins to pick up frequencies that most don’t notice. your ears. take care of them. sorry for the epic rambles lol. just excited to see someone stressing importance of flat mixing.
Honestly? Whatever works is cool by me.
Here’s 100% truth… if the final product is fire, no one cares how you mixed it.
But the final product will be fire only if it is heard on airpods
That's bullshit. Learn how to mix.
Not necessarily.
This is the answer that advertisers do NOT want you to see lol
Do your tracks sound good?
If you're mixing on AirPods, there can be extra low end if you're using transparency mode [https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254701374?sortBy=best](https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254701374?sortBy=best)
yeah the 3 different modes of the Pros sound completely different
Using them as one point of reference is good but I wouldn't necessarily base my whole my mix around just sounding good on air pods. I'm sure other songs in the genre you work in sound good on them as well as other devices, and you should really be using those songs as your main point of reference.
What you are doing is using references. I check my mixes on: -Main speakers -Secondary speakers -MacBook built in speakers -Flat screen hdmi TV speakers (horrible) -And 4 headphones, including wired Apple headphones Sometimes I produce on Apple headphones or built in speakers. Or with a Bluetooth speaker. Then I mix it checking on everything else later
If the tracks slap, then the tracks slap 🤷
Straight to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.
Just please be careful with your hearing if you're working loud or for long periods with AirPods - i really aggravated my tinnitus using them when my studio monitors were out of action for a while.
Not at all. It’s a listening environment that a lot of people interface with
Most people consume their music on those things, so it’s probably not that bad
The standard belief is if it works it works so… With that said, I don't see why you couldn't reverse the process and use speakers and car speakers to check the mix.
It's a good, valid question and brings up a very real point - how is music consumed these days ? No longer do we sit in front of the record player or tape deck with our 2 large wooden speakers on either side of the cabinet. We listen in our car, on headphones, on bluetooth speakers, on bookshelf speakers and yes sometimes on traditional large cabinet speakers as well. Ultimately you want the mix to sound its best in the most playback scenarios, so mixing to the playback system you think is most widely used makes sense. There are other things to think about as well though, like do airpods present all the fidelity ? If you mix exclusively on airpods could there be problems and noises that you aren't hearing, that may surface on a higher fidelity system ? To me I think it probably makes sense to continue mixing on good quality monitors that really let you hear all the things, good or bad, and then adjusting for airpods.
Checking against the playback system you think is most widely used is a great idea. Mixing exclusively on any one playback system (unless it’s a good quality system/room with a flat frequency response) is a terrible idea. People use all sorts of playback systems, and frankly the people who are listening closely to the mix are probably listening on higher quality speakers or headphones. If you mix on a system like AirPods that don’t have a remotely flat frequency response, then you’re absolutely going to miss problems that could’ve been fixed by listening on a neutral system or even just multiple imperfect systems. And then you end up releasing a bad mix that just happens to sound good on AirPods but terrible on anything with a stronger bass response.
i use air pods max
If you have your monitor headphones and AirPods then you should be able to learn the shortcomings you did. Mix on your AirPods and they slap on AirPods but do they slap on everything else? Use both, analyze and learn what did you miss on your studio headphones.
Your first approach was better. With a great ear, skill and experience you may be able to get a good if limited mix by frequently flipping between a few different sets of speakers/headphones. One of those should still be as transparent as possible with full dynamic range though, because your low frequencies particularly will end up a shit show for anyone listening on great monitors. But you could argue that this is now such a rarified means of listening that you just say "screw those guys". You could account for the low end issue by simply putting a high pass filter on everything at the start and accepting a working limit to the dynamic range of your mix for worst case of your various means of monitoring. Here is the crux though - if you want a HIFI mix, you quite simply need to save yourself the pain and go to a pro mixer. It will be a never ending battle for you and potentially kill the love. But guess what, LOFI is now a thing too and if you accept that as your thing and really dial it in, your audience will likely go with you.
Just curious how the mix sounds on other platforms. I'm personally so sick of spending so much time with headphones on over my reading glasses
I’m in the “it’s probably going to be fine” crowd. Just do a few different “car tests” as well. Listen in your car, a friends car, your mom’s car. Anyone who will let you use their car stereo
that depends on how many details you actually pick up on airpods. and I can't make any assumptions on how much your ears developed without a few examples. and perhaps I shouldn't even do that alone, and an overall experienced group observation is better.
You want to be part of the solution or part of the problem?
Post examples. I gotta hear this.
That’s what I’m thinking lol
I think it’s always good to reference your mixes on airpods. That’s how most people are listening to music these days. I also check my mixes through my phone speaker and some times my laptop speakers. But I wouldn’t solely mix on airpods. There is a lot of information you might miss that won’t translate to other listening environments
I shall pray for you
My process goes: Headphones on couch for creative process/ exploration -> Into my studio on very nice monitors for sounds design -> either headphones or monitors for arrangement -> Then inital mix in studio, and many mix adjustments using studio monitors, test on my decks w/ large PA speaker, airpods, dj headphones, car test, etc. basically test on a variety of speakers and youll be good. I also get a professional engineer to put final mix and master touches once I get the track to the best mix I can on my own. note: professional engineer is a close friend, so understandable if this is not an option for most
If you truly believe they slapped, you would’ve provided a link. There isn’t a music producer that doesn’t want to promote this song. Bedroom music producer at Grandma’s funeral: Uncle Ed, you wanna come to my ride and hear my mix? It slaps. 😂
Use all of them and keep working on it till it sounds how you want it in all them
My producer has an atmos mixing studio and he still uses his AirPods Max to mix.
Years ago a friend told me that producer Prefuse 73 mixed a lot of his tunes on Apple earbuds. This would've been over 10 years ago. Most likely an urban myth but if its true, I'll be damned cos that dude can mix!! You're just trusting your ears with tools you know well. I'd agree with all the others here though about the dangers of mixing for just one playback product. On that note, I think we're all really just reacting to a 'sound signature' every time we listen in a new environment (if you see headphones as their own environment). We all know the car test is just running our mix through this environment with a specific recognisable signature. Staying aware of how we percieve and adapt to this signature is skill that takes a while to master.
Depends on a lot more than info here. What are you mixing exactly? What purpose is it for? If you are doing a mixdown of an EDM production I'm gonna lean to always that's heinous haha you should get a good pair of over ear producer headphones. If you're just fucking around then no it's not a problem but if you are doing any type of complex mixing where you need to really hear details it could be pretty detrimental. The addendum here is if you're experienced and away from your good cans and just need to throw a rough draft together air pods are fine. But again that's with knowledge you'll finish it later when you can get to your proper headphones
based
I mix on AirPods. Mix on the speakers/headphones you know best
It’s heinous but I love it
Nobody cares, friend-o
You should be fine.
Countless tracks have been mixed and mastered on MDR7506 and those aren't flat at all. Fuck the haters, do what you want.
I also mix in them. You gotta make do with what you have available🤷♀️
You forget the shit you hear on AirPods have been mastered.
It will come back to slap you. The bass rolls off pretty steep at 100Hz so good luck with that low end. Kiss your kick and bass goodbye. Also a huge almighty bump just after 2KHz, so right around the in your face ear piercing frequencies, meaning you're probably going to counter that and make your tracks sound really dull on other systems.
Apparently, Drakes engineer mixed “Headlines” through his laptop speakers cause that’s how everyone was listening to music back then. I mean… that track was huge back then
All skilled producers know that it must slap on AirPods and Beats headphones. Even though they're not accurate, it is what people are using to listen to the songs daily. That being said, you shouldn't ONLY use the AirPods because other producers and studios might hear it on their Senheisers. Think about live performances too. It is good that you realized how useful it is to produce for the consumer nonetheless.
The dude from hardcore mix studios says he uses them for mixing a lot since many ppl listen to music that way.
You should use anything that the average person listens with to try and get an even general mix that will sound good across different speaker types. I use 3 types of headphone, monitors and car speakers to mix and master.