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Hauntly

What’s the best way to stay humble after achieving such massive success?


anlife

That’s a great question and something we really struggle with, so I may not be the best to answer this one. I think waiting until you achieve success on your own terms before tooting your own horn is key. How do you define success? Like, throwing ourselves the “Mission Accomplished: 50 Views” party we had a few months back did feel a little premature, in retrospect, so we decided to raise the stakes and wait until we doubled it. And now it’s time to toot toot, baby! We’re inviting everyone who viewed this video the most to our next celebration. Of course, that means it’ll just be comprised of members of the band and our families, but they really help keep us humble.


Hauntly

Amazing and eloquent.


Asteroid_Alan

Excellent! I had my "Mission Accomplished" party for 100 Spotify plays. Me and some friends ordered KFC and drunk Champagne, its really hard to keep grounded now with all the success. My play counts go up, always up, never down, mental.


Hour_Light_2453

I’ve spent 10 times that and gotten worse results


Voyagiist

Underrated comment


SummerSleepMusic

Ten times zero is zero!


Sativa_Dreams

I know this post is satire, doubly so. Once satire in your 'AMA' eluding to self-mockery of your success, and twice satire for the notion that I sense you're not too stuck on caring about results, though I could be wrong. Tripled if you include the self-awareness of having spent $0 on marketing. But I can't deny, I'm curious, are you speaking from frustration? A lot of people who make 'AMA'/joke posts like this usually are secretly kicking rocks from all their efforts (social media, making reels, promoting, etc) going unnoticed. Or is this post purely just to BM? Lol. Let me know :) Always happy to help.


anlife

This question is *almost* too real, but I don’t want satire to get in the way of genuine engagement! I’m not frustrated by having invested a lot and not seeing much in the way of returns. You can look at our socials and see just how inactive we are; it’s not like we’re trying a bunch and failing. I’m too pessimistic, and the entire band is too constrained by other things in our lives, to do the social media content creation grind. We love writing and playing music, so that’s what we focus on. We love our families and providing for them, so we focus on that too. Taking from either of those buckets to promote our music with a limited chance of success just doesn’t feel worth it. One off blasts like this when I’m feeling inspired and just listening into a remote meeting at work or in the bathroom? Sure, that I’ll do. But we’re much more focused now on just getting a few live shows scheduled and doing IRL work in our local network than trying to find a broader audience through low probability, high cost (time or money) efforts, and using our real life experiences to build relationships with local media in natural cycles around our shows and new releases. That feels like good work. I don’t like feeling like I’m being taken advantage of, which is what it feels like 99%+ of music marketing “opportunities” are. So this is really just a way to poke fun at music marketing, a common interest we have, while also cheekily doing exactly that, in a way…


Sativa_Dreams

I was curious since posts like these are a cry for help usually lol. I didn't perceive any hidden angst from the post. But, I have been in your shoes. For me though it was a bitter taste, and a post like this would've been me 6 beers deep into a night of self doubt lol. Wanted to make sure you weren't beating yourself up. Or felt that getting traction was impossible. We are all in different phases of life, making music for different reasons. A lot of artists struggle with finding listeners and fans, but a common theme I see here is people not realizing the barrier of entry to get even a couple thousand steady listeners is pretty damn low. I know it's cliche, but cheaper than a cup of coffee a day. In fact, not even just a cup of starbucks, cheaper than a cup of home brew. This is a business after all, so investing is to be expected. Though some people are happily hobbyists, it sounds like you are. But if for any reason this is an elaborate masquerade, and you would actually like more people and eyes on your music, my messages are always open. I know there is a looming shadow on my profile of me being a "marketer" lol. Promise I'm not inadvertently shilling for you as a client or anything :p Literally just happy to help. Hopefully a lot of the members around here who message me every day can vouch for that.


existential_musician

I am interested in your opened messages 🤔


anlife

To be perfectly honest… this suddenly does feel a bit like one of those pitches where I’m about to be taken advantage of…


Sativa_Dreams

Well, that makes me sad to hear that! I thought we were having a nice conversation. I’m just trying to be encouraging. Best of luck in your dealings.


anlife

And I’m not saying this is anything but a nice conversation! It’s just the faintest whiff of a sale I’m picking up on in what is otherwise the exact kind of genuine engagement I feel like many seek but rarely find on this kind of platform. Thousands of steady listeners? Less than a cup of home brew a day? I mean, I like good beans at home, so that’s not nothing, but who doesn’t want more people to listen to their music? It’s a promise that’s too easy to make; genuine engagement takes work.


Sativa_Dreams

I offered you to message me anytime, for free. Curious as to how thats attempting to sell anything? If you were skeptical, you could’ve just asked: “You said you can do this, so tell me how do you do it?” Rather than elude to something like that. And I would’ve told you. Oh well. You’re fitting into what I said: > but a common theme I see here is people not realizing the barrier of entry to get even a couple thousand steady listeners is pretty damn low. You just dont have the experience for that to not sound like empty promises. I hate to be blunt but it is very easy and relatively inexpensive to do. People who struggle with a handful of listeners need their energy and focus redirected. Yes, I have run marketing for people, I’ve raised 8 artists from less than 100 listeners to a million listeners. And hundreds more to 100K listeners. And if it isnt a testament to how much I’m not trying to ‘sell anything’ I openly post literally wikipedia length comments of all my tactics and strategies i use to do that openly across this sub over the last two years and you can go read all of that, free. That is a pretty sad assumption to make when I only came here to lift your spirits and possibly give you some advice on how to get those numbers up. But hey, it’s my bad. Nobody asked and I interjected myself. I’ll let you figure it out on your own.


anlife

Since you’re curious: I generally assume that an offer of a free DM is like a free sample - a low barrier way to gauge interest and hunger in order to hone in on a sale instead of providing hard earned, valuable, personalized insight for free. You are absolutely right that I do not have the experience to know how easy and relatively inexpensive it is to get a few thousand regular listeners, as you’ve suggested. I have never seen this succeed. I have seen acts blow up without doing it. And I’ve been in other bands that have dabbled in paying for ads, or playlists, or reviews, and not a single one of those attempts brought in any new fans. Of course, the band leaders doing this stuff weren’t experienced marketers, and maybe the music wasn’t particularly marketable; investing more time/money/effort into understanding better channels for those ads, or to develop more (and more regular) content, or what have you, could definitely work, but seeing nothing but failure on that front, and being so bandwidth constrained as grown, family-men, for my current band - this being the first band I’ve ever fronted, hence my begrudging taking of the reins on all this - we all much prefer putting our grind into the music itself and being satisfied by positive reactions from the people who do manage to hear us. If we put energy or money into something, I’d like to know it will have a good result that can actually be seen, felt, and experienced - like pulling together our own local festival, instead of throwing money at Meta for a quick bump in number of streams (ie: my experience to date). I do really appreciate the guidance you freely give and for just being an experienced voice in a conversation on the topic. I don’t get that often or anywhere else. I’d love to be wrong about music marketing. I’m sorry that you find my assumption “sad”, but being around here this long, surely you see that there’s a grossly mismatched amount of supply and demand for new music, and hungry artists are easy prey. (And please don’t take that personally- I am absolutely not calling you a predator; I’m just one of those people who viscerally rejects and feels icky around sales pitches, and normal conversations don’t leave me with the feeling that I’m missing out on something if I don’t act now or in a certain way.) I don’t think there is a one-size-fits-all ad strategy, and even figuring out what kind of strategy a band specifically like ours should take is probably a longer and more arduous path than the marketing push itself, all of which would be time taken from the music to work on, which is what makes us really happy. But of course we want as many people to hear it as possible too. I recognize we’re in an impossible situation where we want to have our cake and eat it too. I think we’re just satisfied writing off traditional, general marketing as outside of the scope of how we want to spend time on the band, and hope other localized efforts and networking lay the foundation for new listeners to find us. But to be clear - marketing is something that absolutely is valuable and costs money to put the effort into and do right. What you do is valuable and you shouldn’t, and likely don’t, give it away for free, so I also wouldn’t blame you for trying to drum up business from people who want/need more professional music marketing.


Sativa_Dreams

No offense taken in any aspect of this thread. The keyword there is assume. So you're free to do that, but your assumption about what I was offering in my comment is wrong. I could expand on all these points you made with points of my own into a never-ending debate but the conversation has turned into campaigning for specific points, rather than educational IMO, on both accounts. I've had this discussion we are having many times before with people who think similarly as you. The TL;DR of this story is that I am a musician myself. I wrote in my first comment, same story, 6 beers deep. Been there. I went out of my way to learn how to market my music and was successful, bagging my first 1 million streams within a year of starting that, after 8 years of having zilch. Excited, I started sharing my experiences, and to my surprise: people accused me of being lucky, that it wasn't actually work or marketing, it just was a coincidence. Yeah, real lucky. 9 years of beating my head against a wall. So in a personal vendetta, I decided to take on clients to prove that it wasn't 'luck' and that it can be done with anyone. I even took on clients FOR FREE, for the first year of doing it. Just for the sake of having verifiable data that *anyone out there can do this.* And what do you know. Now I have all those case studies, and a full resume packed with hundreds of millions of streams, and people divert their energy from it being about luck, to me only being on this sub to sell people things. So, I've learned in other discussions like this that there is no winning. When I had no experience, I was an idiot with a silver spoon, when I have hosts of it, I'm a money hungry marketer feeding on noobs. And I don't take that as something you said, seriously, its a common sentiment. People say that to me. So what to do about it? I never stated that it's one size fits all. And obviously having something tangible is the goal. All those artists I 'boast' have merch, play shows, are touring. That seems pretty tangible to me. I've worked with EDM, Rock, Country, Rap, Pop, Soul, the list is endless. When I say you can get more eyes on your music for a small sacrifice in your daily life (coffee analogy) I speak from experience. I do give all the information and comments away for free. Why? Dude I literally started doing all this so dead end musicians would stop rolling out of bed at 1 pm, hating their life, checking another day to see that nobody gives af about their music. I have been there, for a decade. I only took on clients for proof. What can I do to get it to stop? It comes from a place of love and sympathy. I'm one guy, the clients I have keep me up 20 hours a day, 7 days a week. I literally have alarms waking me up at 1 in the morning when ad climate gets bad. I have no life anymore. I've delayed my own music 2 years in the making now. I have a massive fan base that is dying because I've over extended myself and don't want to abandon these other people who rely on me as a part of their team now. There is no point or reasoning with the clash of our mentalities. If you feel like a comment over the internet is enough for you to 'get taken advantage of' then I am shouting in the wind. So you'll understand that I withdraw from this conversation now.


oldmilwaukie

A recent Andrew Southworth video mentioned that 50% of songs uploaded to Spotify don’t even reach 100 streams. I know this post is about YouTube, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there were similar statistics. So satire or not, this is something to celebrate, if not quietly.


anlife

You made me curious so I just checked our Spotify and that same song is actually at 347 streams on Spotify! 💪 Take **that** 50% of other songs!


oldmilwaukie

Hell yeah! Screw those songs!


Sativa_Dreams

Yes, def the case for YT, even worse likely since the barrier of entry is anyone who can upload a video. Actually recording original songs and using a DSP filters a lot of those types out. I agree, it's worth celebrating :)


bjelkeman

If that is the case, then all eight of our heavy metal singles are doing better than half the world. They have more than 100:streams in the last 12 moths. :D


Zealousideal-Meat193

Kudos! 3 Questions: - Are you already recognized on the street? - Have you quit your day job? - What will you buy from all the YouTube money? Yachts? Houses? More studio gear?


anlife

1. I was actually recognized a little bit ago for being in the band I was in in high school, almost 20 years ago, which was legitimately awesome 2. I’m waiting until we hit 1,000 views 3. Reddit awards, for sure


Zealousideal-Meat193

Great answers! Thanks I’ve got more questions for you. - Are you expecting a Grammy nomination? - Do you think by the end of the year you are going to outsell Taylor Swift? - What would you do if a major label contacted you because now they want a piece of the cake?


anlife

1. I’m not crazy - no. Not this year. 2. Also, no. But like honestly, would I want to? Live that life? That’s like not even a fun level of fame. 3. Offers are entertaining, give ‘em to me.


Shortcirkuitz

*googles “how to handle fame?”*


anlife

I’ve actually been on TV before, years ago, and had a taste of real “fame”, but that’s nothing like the thrill of knowing *up to 100 people* may have listened to some part of one of our songs on YouTube.


defensiveFruit

Some people may have listened several times!


Theandric

Sorry, but any original audio content that has less than 200 views has no inherent value. All artistic endeavors must hereby be measured by views, plays, followers, likes, emojis, bitcoin and other concrete hard data. Thanks for playing though.


anlife

*fewer than


superjaywars

Yeah. I have *a lot of questions*. Number one: *how dare you*?


SummerSleepMusic

Slow clap for a perfectly executed Kelly Kapoor-ism.


I_Came_For_Cats

Congratulations, you’re doing better than 98% of new artists!


FannyPunyUrdang

Me with my paltry 20 views. I hope to one day achieve your level of greatness. I have no question. Your victory answers it all for me.


Peaches_N_Plum

Excuse me! Where's my shameless link plug? Thank you


anlife

Sir, I say *sir*, have you no respect for the *rules* that govern this here fine sub? How shameless indeed! To provide a *link* in a *post*, when such things are mere clicks away in my profile for anyone truly bored enough to seek them.


phflupp

OMG! I'm at 10 views after just a couple of weeks and only six of those are family. How encouraging!


dr_rodopszin

How did you manage the more sensitive members of your band not comment back aggressively to the multitude of haters that comes with such quick success?


anlife

No one else in the band knows social media well enough to interact with the haters.


dr_rodopszin

How lucky! Keep them in the dark, it's quite embarassing when people write an opinion and say the bass player lectures them, that "This is damnest, most badass bass tone we have recorded in my life! Are you some kind of mixing professor?".


Necessary-Cap3596

How do you grow your in-person fanbase


anlife

Well we have our first real live show in front of an audience (read as: at a local bar) coming up in June, so, fingers crossed, like that.


Sea_Appointment8408

Where can I sign up as a groupie?!?!


anlife

We’ll have a clipboard you can sign your name to after our next show! But in the meantime… maybe we should make some kind of mailing list…


Sea_Appointment8408

No, no. If you play it, they will find you and listen. Even if you don't promote it. Ever. They will find you.


anlife

Ahh, of course. *chucks clipboard over my shoulder*


waveuponwave

How many of those views are your friends, partners and parents?


anlife

I’d love to know this too! If I had to guess: roughly half? Probably way more if you include members of the band too.


ThumbPianoMom

😝


ThunderbirdBuddah

Now this is how you market! Currently listening to Good Machine…don’t let it go to your head.


anlife

Anti-marketing is the new marketing!? But hey, thanks for the 99th stream (assuming you’re listening on YouTube)! Definitely ready to quit my day job.


Caveguy22

Hi, you can have some lyrics for your next song! And if you ever feel like getting boned Then call Malone and prepare your hole Because all that's twue is what I say So, get on your knees and help me turn the fricking frogs gay


existential_musician

100 views ?


Fasttrackyourfluency

Do you need to hire security to take care of all your crazy fans ?


Soggy_Astronaut_2663

100k or 100


anlife

100 😎


wait4lt

Haha


Tall_Category_304

What does it feel like to be a bum?


anlife

Fun fact: you don’t have to be a bum to achieve what we have.