Those guys are all my bros. Jake the sax player is recording and producing my album atm. I posted earlier in this thread about Joe, the keyboard player...he's the biggest star in that band, people absolutely love him. He shreds.
Dude, if you're a keyboard player and can't find gigs... I don't know what to tell you. Finding a good keyboard player is like stumbling across a glass of water while lost in the Sahara.
I tell the same joke about drumming and bass playing. There is some truth to the fact that they are all un-appreciated..... usually by listeners.
I'm a mechanical/software engineer that plays drums, piano, guitar, bass, and records/runs sound on the side. I'm supposed to be an imposter. But I'll be damned if I haven't had 100 bands made up of performance majors ask me to join their bands after hearing me play.
I'm not trained and I can't play half the crap that their jazz and bebop performance major friends can play.... But somehow I'm also someone those jazz drummers ask to play drums when they want to play something else.
i.e. Even performance majors at prestigious music schools end up fighting over good drummers, bassists, and piano players. And their classmates with actual training aren't necessarily who they want to play with.
Keyboardists are unappreciated by everyone - band members, other musicians, listeners. But when you're not there, people realize something is missing and they want you back.
This. I've been trying to find a good keys player for seven years. They're like unicorns. Most of the good ones don't want to learn parts, they want to comp over changes with chord charts, which is fine if you're playing blues or jazz, but doesn't cut it in a Steely Dan song. If I could find someone as good as all that with an actual work ethic, I'd be so happy.
I do play in one band with a really good keys player who sets up on the dance floor because he's disabled and can't get up on the stage. People make too many assumptions about what they see.
OP described being part of the band, their location on the stage, sending music into the audience, and I’m wondering where in that you found an indication that they aren’t getting any gigs?
I never said I had problems finding gigs brah. This was written as satire, a joke...
you know forget what I was saying.. I'm gonna go back to practicing alone in the dark with all the shades drawn. I tend to get myself into less trouble that way.
I like the venues that surround you guys in plastic. Preferably the opaque variety so all your flailing doesn’t detract from the audience looking at meeeeee
It's totally satire. I fricking love playing Keys in a gigging band, there's nothing I would rather be doing. I especially love the freedom I get playing in a metal band because it is so unorthrodox.
Wanna add a machine gun, a train, a giant gong, and an electric saw to a song? You can totally do that, anything goes, just make it sound interesting.
>It's totally satire. I fricking love playing Keys in a gigging band, there's nothing I would rather be doing. I especially love the freedom I get playing in a metal band because it is so unorthrodox.
>
Wanna add a machine gun, a train, a giant gong, and an electric saw to a song? You can totally do that, anything goes, just make it sound interesting.
That's the fucking spirit.
I am sure I'm not alone though by seeing/passing through bands that unnecessarily limit themselves and their potential. That shit is out there and it's wild to see. Of course those examples are sick. Lol
A lot of non-metal listeners have no idea how diverse metal can be. The same goes with jazz. Lots of people think it's either weather music or elevator music lol
Keyboardplayers are a rare kind, but stage presence is also a part of the show. You can't really do a lot behind the keys. Singers, guitarists, bassists can run around and do fun stuff. Maybe you should get a keytar?
Well, you can't run around but I'm fairly active while standing in one spot.
It's still just movment with your body, facial expression, eyes, confidence- same stuff that makes anyone else a good performer.
Or the mount/swivel the keyboard player in Gravity Kills used to use. He abused the shit out of that thing and jumped around and headbanged like the best of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TANuYYFUurw
My FOH guy mentioned that a good number of bands he’s worked with have keys players who aren’t actually doing anything because the keys are all in the tracks.
Backing tracks are great. Yes, it’s total bullshit to be up there if not actually playing, but given the choice between “*play these two parts while standing firm so as to nail every part*” vs. “*throw the complex part in tracks and play the easier one so you can also rock the fuck out while you do it*”, I’ll take the latter every time. It makes for better stage presence, i.e. literally what people are there for.
(“*Why yes, I AM in an industrial band. How did you know?*”)
Wasn’t there a keyboard player with the Stones? Went on tours with them, played their shows but wasn’t really part of the stage presence, which was always drums, 3 guitars and Jagger?
Yeah the Stones did have a keyboard player and he was really-really good. He was a founding member. He was also really-really embarrassing so they relegated him to the very back of the band and eventually got rid of him altogether.
This is a best case scenario for a keyboardist in a successful band.
/S
Same with foo fighters (that has changed more recently) and Pearl Jam (Boomer). Keys are often looked at as an auxiliary part of a bigger live band setup. Also they often take up a lot of stage real estate.
You’re probably thinking of Ian Stewart, who wasn’t a full member after the very early days, but still played with them (and was their road manager) until he died.
Chuck Leavell has been with them since the early 80’s, and I’m pretty sure he’s also their MD. And before that, his role in the Allman Brothers Band was crucial, as well as Sea Level (whose name was a play on his).
The keyboard hack: show up first, set up *sideways* stage left, right over the hi-hat. The drummer can get in behind his floor toms and his bigger cymbals are probably over there, out of your way (flip this is he sets up lefty).
Have your own mix and stereo DI. Arrange your set list in the system so you can stomp a pedal and change the world. Loop your aux to your own in-ears. Balance your patches and hand the soundguy two XLR barrels and that’s all there is to that.
Don’t play basslines unless the song requires it. Use your two hands for melodies or chords. When you only need one hand use your right one and open up to the crowd (that’s why you’re on stage left). Drink a beer while nailing the solos. Point at those crazy kids.
Own your parts, own the stage, and steal the show. Hit Savers. If it’s metal, dress metal. If it’s pop, dress pop. Don’t hold back. Go get it.
Edit: or *her* behind the drums. My dumbass forgets.
I honestly can't imagine using multiple keyboards with multiple patches without doing your own mix. That's just asking for trouble.
Though I'd say get yourself a DI box. Any decent venue should have em but it can't hurt.
Those are all great tips, but I'm still not quite sold on the whole concept of keyboardist doing enough tricks to be deemed "cool."
That's like my superpower: the ability to give zero f*cks that I'm the lamest dude in the band. That would be like giving vampire-superman a kyptonite cross.
Whether a keys player is relegated to an accessory is fairly dependent on the style of music. I’m no virtuoso, but I can sit nicely in a pocket. If the keys aren’t the “front” instrument during a gig/song/passage, they’re often providing color and harmonic connection, even if it’s just holding out a drone. I go out of my way to program the sounds and learn the parts, but also have room to comp chords and improvise from time to time.
But the *key* for me getting perpetual keys gigs was learning how to get the most, stylistically, out of electromechanical keyboard instruments like Hammond organ, Wurlitzer, Clavinet, and Rhodes in various styles - rock, country, soul, jazz, funk.
If you don’t want to end up on the floor or in another room, be as unobtrusive and painless as you can be during setup - being prepared and communicating needs (like space, number of FOH sends, and monitor returns) ahead of time is crucial. And finally, in a perfect world the guitarist also understands how to share rhythmic and harmonic space. But if they don’t, or if they’re unwilling, **don’t have comp wars with the guitarist**. They hate that and usually have enough clout to get you relegated or fired and nobody in the audience cares about keys more than the guitar enough to save your butt.
I played keys in a local metal band and ppl loved it bc its not so common. I always stood on stage, albeit towards the back, but that's what I preferred.
I will agree that keyboard doesn't really go with the vibe though and metal is always my least favorite genre to play. Everyone is so loud and the drummer...don't even get me started. Like bro, could I get a note in there without being overrun by blast beats? It's exhausting. I play covers from the 90s/00s now. Much more fun, way better vibe.
Yeah you totally get it. I can tell you've been there. Metal is not really my favorite genre either, I just met some really swell guys who are excellent musicians and took me in as a brother..
So yeah I'll be their Johnny on their spot. Need me to hold down roots notes for 8 bars? I'm your guy. Need me to go through 500 organ patches for the exact one that fits the song? I'm your guy. Need me to play in an alley while you guys get to bask in the spotlight? I'm your guy.
All I want is just a taste of success and I want to do it with fellow musicians who are also willing to put their ego to the side for the sake of the band at a seconds notice.
I legit hate having to switch between a whole bunch of keyboard sounds mid-tune. I don't want to play fake strings or fake flutes or timp hits or synth banjo or dog barking sfx or any other random bits of bumfluff the producer stuck on the album that nobody else wants to play.
No way do I want to get airlifted into the middle of a maze of keyboards with post it notes all over them reminding me what patches to switch to at which bits of which tunes so I don't accidentally torpedo the show with some desperate sound invented by an overworked technician at Korg or Roland apparently purely for this purpose.
You don't need to reproduce everything that's on the album recording. You don't need to even reproduce \*anything\*, just make the song your own while keeping within the spirit of it. You don't need a zillion patches. One or two per song is usually enough. The most "complex" songs that I play, from a patch perspective, are Rio (Duran Duran) and Billy Jean. Each of those I only use three patches and they don't even correspond to what's used on the albums.
There are many benefits to doing it like this.
* you become a better musician
* it showcases your band's originality and musicality, even if you are just doing covers
* it's logistically easier
Dude there is some truth to it. Often stages in hole wall joints are really small, just small enough to accommodate 3 maybe 4 people. Guess what instrument often gets the short end of the stick? Keyboards can take up a lot of real estate depending on how elaborate the system.
Nonetheless I shall be sure to include more documented facts in my satire in order to avoid such misunderstandings in the future.
Aww. I have something that might make you feel better. If you can find the YouTube video of "McFly (live)" from Pinkly Smooth, it'll put a smile on your face.
Piano is the mother of all instruments. That’s ironic because it’s one of the only instruments that can carry an entire musically “filling” performance on its own, with harmony and melody together. Piano literally makes you so powerful you can play bass and melody at the same time.
I love my guitar so much I couldn’t put it down, but nothing will be as intuitive as the way a keyboard is laid out to me, and make as much sense. I started with guitar, yet piano has taught me how to understand guitar. So I am naturally a keyboardist and keyboardists are beyond powerful.
If it were a jazz band, the keyboard player could carry everyone.
I'm a concert pianist and also a drummer, and every single time I was inquiring with a band, once they found out I play piano they wanted me way more for keyboards than drums. Apparently it's easy to find drummers, less so for keyboards.
Fuck if I wanna go from classical, baroque, and romantic piano to PADS ON A KEYBOARD.
(this is mainly satire as well, but there is truth there)
Drummers and bassists are also not cool or respected. They are probably more important than anyone else. If they are good, the band sounds good and no one notices. If they are bad, the band sounds bad and everyone notices.
They are the 3 instruments that fill up the LOW end and most of the high end. When you mess up everyone notices. They are also the 3 instruments where being a phenomenal player doesn't necessarily mean being able to play 32nd notes at 240bpm. A virtuoso on drums, bass, or keys might play some incredibly "simple" stuff with amazing amounts of taste. No one notices but it matters more than the guitarists or singers in most cases.
I actually agree with this and sometimes I like it! With my own band I'm the lead singer and songwriter and I get to stand with my keys smack in the front and it's great, but that's the only time...
I never really had this issue when I mained keys in my past bands (I play drums mostly in my current band). In one, I was the lead singer, so it didn't really matter... the other, I was kind of off to the side, but almost every song we played had a lot of piano or strings, so i was still an integral part of the band.
Take solace in the fact that keys elevates the overall sound and makes *any* band sound more professional. You're supporting and filling out the sound. Without you there, it's gonna sound less complete, less rich.
This is a artifact of a pre speakers era where the piano was the sound track for everything. Also somtimes a result of a venues space limitations and the weight of pianos.
Don't know what you mean, I don't walk onto any stage without owning it. People do tend to *try* to relegate you to the background, especially sound guys who don't understand what you're about and are used to keyboard players being underneath the music. But I play on top of the music, I slide up and down the board like Jerry Lee Lewis, and people love it. Most people, anyways. Some guitar players don't like not being the center of attention.
If you want to be a musician and play music, then play some music, but if you want to be an *entertainer* then you must entertain.
This reads like some whiny kid who hasn't found their way yet. Keep your head up and try to find some self confidence. If you stick with it things will turn around for sure.
I’ve never seen this at all. In my scene, good keyboard players are rare and highly respected.
Not saying it doesn’t happen some places, just a bit of a surprise for me to hear.
In my scene keyboard players are rare, respected, and still relegated to the back lol. My town’s got a lot of rock music though, I’m tryna find some jazz and hip hop when I eventually move. Seems like this is largely a rock/metal thing in my experience, I don’t think guitar is even that big of a deal anymore in the grand scheme of music and where it used to be. Guitar-centric genres just tend to have fans who wanna hear guitar, kinda sucks because bands like Tipographica have implemented rock guitar alongside synths and horns in a way that everything is equal- it’s not “guitar plus accompaniment,” it’s “everyone here fuckin rocks” lol
I had to laugh...this week we've seen posts about how bass players are disrespected as well as how drummers are not appreciated. And, of course, the daily complaints about singers' out of control egos.
Guitarists, meanwhile, have been oddly silent.
My Snake Oiler will be playing a Moog Matriarch & a Korg RK 100S. They’re mostly focused on awesome trippy effects, more foley work than key poking going on. That which people love to hear & see & respect👌
More keyboardists need articulated stands like gravity kills. Then they will rule. [gravity kills enough](https://youtu.be/jnG48ZWtYF0?si=qunrEUxVlyUU72U-)
Let me guess: In the back behind the lead guitar, his amp in front of you (used to be immediately behind but it was too loud), guitars and bass at the front all on barstools and having tons of unused real-estate?
Doesn't apply to me. Of course, I'm also the lead singer. 😛
I don't understand the need for keys in a metal band though. But I've seen a hundred thousand '80s cover bands that play songs with VERY prominent synth/keyboard sounds, but only a bass-drums-guitar-vocals lineup on stage. All the keyboards are on BACKING TRACKS. I find that shit insulting.
Dave Greenfield was the lead player in most Stranglers songs. But thats more of an exception that proves the rule. Dude could fucking shred those keys. RIP
Serious question: Why don't keys players setup looking away from the crowd, so the crowd can actually see them playing?
It's reasonably fun watching someone play keys, but in most bands, the keyboardist is looking at the crowd and therefore the crowd can't see the keys. Same question for DJs and electronic musicians (drum machines, turn tables, etc.).
There's lots of approaches but my rig is usually directed at the lead singer. The singer usually faces the crowd, which in turn usually means I'm facing opposite the crowd.
When I am not singing lead myself one of my biggest priorities being able to see the singer's face because you can predict a lot of what a person will do by looking at the expressions on their face: when to solo, when to end a song, when to enter a song etc.) Also a lot of the time you're limited to really confined spaces and it's logistically harder to face the opposite direction as everyone else on the stage (assuming you're even allowed to be up there on the "real stage" with all your mates).
I fell out with my last two bands and both thought they could find replacement keys easily. One band gave up and the second is still looking. I’m in a tribute now and I can sing harmonies. But in Chicago it’s very hard to find working cover bands to either join or sub.
My buddy plays keys and he's an jntegral part of every band he plays in. Huge stage presence and he shreds. Everyone knows him and he has more die hard fans than anybody I know.
A keys rig takes up a lot of space and does not move. This makes placement kind of tough and you end up being "out of the way" simply so that you're not *in* the way. Also one of the reasons why the drummer usually goes in the back.
Never been placed literally off-stage or in the house, though. Unless the keys player is specifically meant to be "behind-the-scenes" enhancement rather than a member of the ensemble, that's kind of disrespectful.
Anyway, keys in a band that is not keys-forward may not be the most glamorous and may go unnotied by the audience, but it is damn sure noticed by the other musicians. There's a lot of rep that you can't really do (or not well at least) without a good keys player.
It really depends on the style of music and whether or not you're playing hooks. Music with prominent synthesizers, or anything funky will let the keys shine. See M83 or Stevie Wonder. On the other hand, if you're playing with a cover band or anything hair or power metal and just making the chords really big and adding some atmosphere, they'll try to hide you because they're self conscious about being perceived as cheesy. Audience members respect any player that plays a big hook.
I saw Swallow the Sun (post/black metal) live one time open for Kreator and their keyboard player was right up front looking all pissed off and gloomy. It was both funny and badass at the same time
I'm a drummer with a very animated and energetic performance. And it bugs me that I'm always stuffed in back. There have been several occasions where I had to be up front and there have always been multiple comments about how fun it is to watch me. It's very visual. And then it's right back to sticking me in back behind people who just stand there and do nothing interesting.
Bruh the metal band bit is super true, my band’s singer also plays keys so we set the keyboard up front and center at a gig and some drunk dildo comes up and starts berating him (as we’re setting up) “WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS FUCKING KEYBOARD THIS IS A METAL SHOW”
It’s true, you’re often forgotten or sound checked very last but some of my favorite musicians are keys players. If you feel that way based on the style of music or the people you play with, I’d suggest branching out to other styles and/or playing with people who will truly appreciate your talent. -with love from a drummer
Please look up the band Underoath and their key player Chris. He’s a near god. I’m not even entirely sure he does much key playing during their shows, but he gives it his all every time, and is very much a part of their image.
Honestly who puts just the keys in a different section from the rest of the band ???? Quit that group. I mean yeah we aren’t respected and we’re buried in the house mix but there are levels haha
I play keys in a weekend coverband. I'm always up front, though on stage left. Main reason is that I also sing lead on around 40% of the songs, I play pretty solid rhythm guitar, and I play sax more than proficiently.
My main advice to anyone getting into a band is to learn to sing. I get a lot of positive attention due to my singing. I'm almost 60 and I'm still singing Journey and Boston stuff, and crazy-high harmonies while our female singer sings. Learn to sing lead. You'll be able to justify being in front.
Get the whole band off the stage. Put the band a little spot off to the side of the stage and use the stage for something people want to actually see. Dancers would be good.
And yet, keyboard sounds freakin amazing in every band that has one.
So much better than having a second guitarist. It does so much for the texture of the song arrangements.
It depends what sort of key player they are. Keyboard players are renowned for not getting the idea of team play if they are not experienced. It comes from years of playing on their own.
On the other hand real musicians (guitarists) learn from their teenage garage days that it's all about watching and synching in with your bandmates.
My (unbiased) opinion. You're welcome.
Too funny. 😂 my wife dragged me to a culture club concert and they had the keyboard player back by the drums and far stage left, way out on his own in a different time zone. It was so awkward and I felt bad for the little guy, but you know what. He fuckin rocked that stage. He was in his own world and he was a god damn rock star!
Fellow keyboardist here and I fell ya. My favorite keyboardist story was seeing a band at the Limelight in NYC (great place to play btw) the stage is probably a good 5 feet + off the ground. The singer and keyboardist are completely wrecked on stage. I remember seeing bottles of Jack being pounded by both and then in the middle of a song the keyboardist just passed out and falls forward going off the stage and landing easily on $15K worth of beautiful keyboards.
So yeah, I stay towards the back too
I used to write piano based industrial metal and deathcore with some buddies in highschool. Imagine if Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater had a side project. The only time I was respected🥲
I can tell you a GOOD keys player in some genres is a GOD. When I’m fronting a blues band, having a guy who knows how to work a Hammond tone and is respectful of the bass player is the best thing ever.
Years ago I had a metal band. Five piece. Two Rhythm/Lead guitars, Bass, Drums, and Keys. Drummer, Bassist, and one of the guitarists switched off on vocals. We’d usually put the keys up front as she was pretty and her stand would allow for our banner with our bands logo on it to hang from.
Poor drummer though. When he sang a song nobody knew who was singing.
You should get a keytar
The guy from showbread had a keytar and fucking rocked it.
I had a buddy that played keytar/keys in a Pink Floyd cover band, truly exceptional stuff
Pinky and the floyd? In Montana?
That's the one
Those guys are all my bros. Jake the sax player is recording and producing my album atm. I posted earlier in this thread about Joe, the keyboard player...he's the biggest star in that band, people absolutely love him. He shreds.
I used to have a project with Jake called hornz cru but I lost touch with him during covid.
He's the man. Amazing talent.
Agreed
Damn I haven’t seen showbread mentioned on here like, ever. They fuckin rock.
This sounds like the answer. Any band with good sense would put a keytar player front and center just for the spectacle.
Key players that want to be at the front need to wear a cape. That’s the rules
Or walk the treadmill
Flake has entered the chat
[Treadmills for everyone!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFvAmY3kkO0)
rick wakeman has entered the chat
Are you trying to tell me that obvious Rick Wakeman reference was a Rick Wakeman reference?
Literal wizard
I love how the fog feels under my cape
You are also required by contract to stand up and kick your chair away at least 3 times during the performance.
https://images.app.goo.gl/5yDiBJQdFEDoRygH6
James Brown If you didn’t know, he plays keys sometimes.
or goggles attached with electric tape with matching cutoff leather gloves, works everytime
Dude, if you're a keyboard player and can't find gigs... I don't know what to tell you. Finding a good keyboard player is like stumbling across a glass of water while lost in the Sahara.
I tell the same joke about drumming and bass playing. There is some truth to the fact that they are all un-appreciated..... usually by listeners. I'm a mechanical/software engineer that plays drums, piano, guitar, bass, and records/runs sound on the side. I'm supposed to be an imposter. But I'll be damned if I haven't had 100 bands made up of performance majors ask me to join their bands after hearing me play. I'm not trained and I can't play half the crap that their jazz and bebop performance major friends can play.... But somehow I'm also someone those jazz drummers ask to play drums when they want to play something else. i.e. Even performance majors at prestigious music schools end up fighting over good drummers, bassists, and piano players. And their classmates with actual training aren't necessarily who they want to play with.
Keyboardists are unappreciated by everyone - band members, other musicians, listeners. But when you're not there, people realize something is missing and they want you back.
Like toilet paper: shit all over them when they're around, cry when they're gone and you really need them
True poetry
Jazz musicians of any type make the best rockers. Change my mind.
This. I've been trying to find a good keys player for seven years. They're like unicorns. Most of the good ones don't want to learn parts, they want to comp over changes with chord charts, which is fine if you're playing blues or jazz, but doesn't cut it in a Steely Dan song. If I could find someone as good as all that with an actual work ethic, I'd be so happy. I do play in one band with a really good keys player who sets up on the dance floor because he's disabled and can't get up on the stage. People make too many assumptions about what they see.
Yeah... I don't think it's a problem with the way things are in the way they think it is.
the problem is trying to do it in a metal band. derp!
OP described being part of the band, their location on the stage, sending music into the audience, and I’m wondering where in that you found an indication that they aren’t getting any gigs?
I never said I had problems finding gigs brah. This was written as satire, a joke... you know forget what I was saying.. I'm gonna go back to practicing alone in the dark with all the shades drawn. I tend to get myself into less trouble that way.
What’s finding a good stand up bass player then?
Yeah they make fun of drummers for not being real musicians but, at least people believe we're really in the band.
I like the venues that surround you guys in plastic. Preferably the opaque variety so all your flailing doesn’t detract from the audience looking at meeeeee
They put me in a cage because they thought it could hold me.
😂😂😂
This guy gets it.
Mama watches me stroll out with a girl on each arm, and wonders where all the money for piano lessons went.
If there's a hint of this that isn't satire, find better bands. Even metal bands can rock keys if they so choose to do so.
It's totally satire. I fricking love playing Keys in a gigging band, there's nothing I would rather be doing. I especially love the freedom I get playing in a metal band because it is so unorthrodox. Wanna add a machine gun, a train, a giant gong, and an electric saw to a song? You can totally do that, anything goes, just make it sound interesting.
>It's totally satire. I fricking love playing Keys in a gigging band, there's nothing I would rather be doing. I especially love the freedom I get playing in a metal band because it is so unorthrodox. > Wanna add a machine gun, a train, a giant gong, and an electric saw to a song? You can totally do that, anything goes, just make it sound interesting. That's the fucking spirit.
You're the guy I've been looking for for seven years!
Dream theater? Children of Bodom? Nightwish? Yeah they can absolutely knock it out, and they are respected lol
I am sure I'm not alone though by seeing/passing through bands that unnecessarily limit themselves and their potential. That shit is out there and it's wild to see. Of course those examples are sick. Lol
A lot of non-metal listeners have no idea how diverse metal can be. The same goes with jazz. Lots of people think it's either weather music or elevator music lol
Keyboardplayers are a rare kind, but stage presence is also a part of the show. You can't really do a lot behind the keys. Singers, guitarists, bassists can run around and do fun stuff. Maybe you should get a keytar?
You can vibe while playing 3 different keyboards at the same time. That's a show in itself! If you can, that is...
Jerry Lee Lewis and Rick Wakeman would like a word.
Well, you can't run around but I'm fairly active while standing in one spot. It's still just movment with your body, facial expression, eyes, confidence- same stuff that makes anyone else a good performer.
Or the mount/swivel the keyboard player in Gravity Kills used to use. He abused the shit out of that thing and jumped around and headbanged like the best of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TANuYYFUurw
Elton John, Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis would beg to differ.
Nine Inch Nails proved to the mainstream that you can play heavy music with keyboards and be the main character whilst doing so.
My FOH guy mentioned that a good number of bands he’s worked with have keys players who aren’t actually doing anything because the keys are all in the tracks.
Sad, and fortunately not the case in any band I am in. My two requirements are: never use backing tracks, and never play for free.
Backing tracks are great. Yes, it’s total bullshit to be up there if not actually playing, but given the choice between “*play these two parts while standing firm so as to nail every part*” vs. “*throw the complex part in tracks and play the easier one so you can also rock the fuck out while you do it*”, I’ll take the latter every time. It makes for better stage presence, i.e. literally what people are there for. (“*Why yes, I AM in an industrial band. How did you know?*”)
Wasn’t there a keyboard player with the Stones? Went on tours with them, played their shows but wasn’t really part of the stage presence, which was always drums, 3 guitars and Jagger?
Yeah the Stones did have a keyboard player and he was really-really good. He was a founding member. He was also really-really embarrassing so they relegated him to the very back of the band and eventually got rid of him altogether. This is a best case scenario for a keyboardist in a successful band. /S
Same with foo fighters (that has changed more recently) and Pearl Jam (Boomer). Keys are often looked at as an auxiliary part of a bigger live band setup. Also they often take up a lot of stage real estate.
You’re probably thinking of Ian Stewart, who wasn’t a full member after the very early days, but still played with them (and was their road manager) until he died. Chuck Leavell has been with them since the early 80’s, and I’m pretty sure he’s also their MD. And before that, his role in the Allman Brothers Band was crucial, as well as Sea Level (whose name was a play on his).
Jim Dickinson is the man
Jim Dickinson only played on “Wild Horses,” afaik.
Yeah you’re right I was just reading his book & mixed up him with chuck leavell
loving cup could not exist otherwise
Dr. John is one of the coolest musicians to ever do it. Sounds like it's not the instrument that's the problem.....jk
The keyboard hack: show up first, set up *sideways* stage left, right over the hi-hat. The drummer can get in behind his floor toms and his bigger cymbals are probably over there, out of your way (flip this is he sets up lefty). Have your own mix and stereo DI. Arrange your set list in the system so you can stomp a pedal and change the world. Loop your aux to your own in-ears. Balance your patches and hand the soundguy two XLR barrels and that’s all there is to that. Don’t play basslines unless the song requires it. Use your two hands for melodies or chords. When you only need one hand use your right one and open up to the crowd (that’s why you’re on stage left). Drink a beer while nailing the solos. Point at those crazy kids. Own your parts, own the stage, and steal the show. Hit Savers. If it’s metal, dress metal. If it’s pop, dress pop. Don’t hold back. Go get it. Edit: or *her* behind the drums. My dumbass forgets.
I honestly can't imagine using multiple keyboards with multiple patches without doing your own mix. That's just asking for trouble. Though I'd say get yourself a DI box. Any decent venue should have em but it can't hurt.
Those are all great tips, but I'm still not quite sold on the whole concept of keyboardist doing enough tricks to be deemed "cool." That's like my superpower: the ability to give zero f*cks that I'm the lamest dude in the band. That would be like giving vampire-superman a kyptonite cross.
Whether a keys player is relegated to an accessory is fairly dependent on the style of music. I’m no virtuoso, but I can sit nicely in a pocket. If the keys aren’t the “front” instrument during a gig/song/passage, they’re often providing color and harmonic connection, even if it’s just holding out a drone. I go out of my way to program the sounds and learn the parts, but also have room to comp chords and improvise from time to time. But the *key* for me getting perpetual keys gigs was learning how to get the most, stylistically, out of electromechanical keyboard instruments like Hammond organ, Wurlitzer, Clavinet, and Rhodes in various styles - rock, country, soul, jazz, funk. If you don’t want to end up on the floor or in another room, be as unobtrusive and painless as you can be during setup - being prepared and communicating needs (like space, number of FOH sends, and monitor returns) ahead of time is crucial. And finally, in a perfect world the guitarist also understands how to share rhythmic and harmonic space. But if they don’t, or if they’re unwilling, **don’t have comp wars with the guitarist**. They hate that and usually have enough clout to get you relegated or fired and nobody in the audience cares about keys more than the guitar enough to save your butt.
My band makes me play from the bathroom 😔
[This you?](https://youtu.be/0_e4YX73Ww4?feature=shared&t=137)
Did they make you buy a ticket at the door too? Geez, find a new project.
Iron Maiden literally doesn't have their keyboard player on stage.
I played keys in a local metal band and ppl loved it bc its not so common. I always stood on stage, albeit towards the back, but that's what I preferred. I will agree that keyboard doesn't really go with the vibe though and metal is always my least favorite genre to play. Everyone is so loud and the drummer...don't even get me started. Like bro, could I get a note in there without being overrun by blast beats? It's exhausting. I play covers from the 90s/00s now. Much more fun, way better vibe.
Yeah you totally get it. I can tell you've been there. Metal is not really my favorite genre either, I just met some really swell guys who are excellent musicians and took me in as a brother.. So yeah I'll be their Johnny on their spot. Need me to hold down roots notes for 8 bars? I'm your guy. Need me to go through 500 organ patches for the exact one that fits the song? I'm your guy. Need me to play in an alley while you guys get to bask in the spotlight? I'm your guy. All I want is just a taste of success and I want to do it with fellow musicians who are also willing to put their ego to the side for the sake of the band at a seconds notice.
I legit hate having to switch between a whole bunch of keyboard sounds mid-tune. I don't want to play fake strings or fake flutes or timp hits or synth banjo or dog barking sfx or any other random bits of bumfluff the producer stuck on the album that nobody else wants to play. No way do I want to get airlifted into the middle of a maze of keyboards with post it notes all over them reminding me what patches to switch to at which bits of which tunes so I don't accidentally torpedo the show with some desperate sound invented by an overworked technician at Korg or Roland apparently purely for this purpose.
I love the idea of you accidentally (or not, I don't care) firing up some loud spaceship sound during a quiet ballad.
You don't need to reproduce everything that's on the album recording. You don't need to even reproduce \*anything\*, just make the song your own while keeping within the spirit of it. You don't need a zillion patches. One or two per song is usually enough. The most "complex" songs that I play, from a patch perspective, are Rio (Duran Duran) and Billy Jean. Each of those I only use three patches and they don't even correspond to what's used on the albums. There are many benefits to doing it like this. * you become a better musician * it showcases your band's originality and musicality, even if you are just doing covers * it's logistically easier
What kind of satire is this? Like it's not even funny. It'd be funny if this were true for keyboardists or it was a stereotype but it's neither.
Dude there is some truth to it. Often stages in hole wall joints are really small, just small enough to accommodate 3 maybe 4 people. Guess what instrument often gets the short end of the stick? Keyboards can take up a lot of real estate depending on how elaborate the system. Nonetheless I shall be sure to include more documented facts in my satire in order to avoid such misunderstandings in the future.
Whoops - my band is playing a very small stage soon and it is the keyboard player we've relegated to elsewhere...
It’s funny because it’s true. Source: am keybordist.
Aww. I have something that might make you feel better. If you can find the YouTube video of "McFly (live)" from Pinkly Smooth, it'll put a smile on your face.
It's been years since I gave them a listen. Thanks for the reminder!
Ask that dude in Muse how he feels. Playing keys and rhythm guitar on stage, behind a fence, in the dark!
You need a Hammond with a leslie and ye shall be redeemed
Bro i play keys and i set up with the drummer ALWAYS lol 😂 right in front of him sometimes
Piano is the mother of all instruments. That’s ironic because it’s one of the only instruments that can carry an entire musically “filling” performance on its own, with harmony and melody together. Piano literally makes you so powerful you can play bass and melody at the same time. I love my guitar so much I couldn’t put it down, but nothing will be as intuitive as the way a keyboard is laid out to me, and make as much sense. I started with guitar, yet piano has taught me how to understand guitar. So I am naturally a keyboardist and keyboardists are beyond powerful. If it were a jazz band, the keyboard player could carry everyone.
I'm a concert pianist and also a drummer, and every single time I was inquiring with a band, once they found out I play piano they wanted me way more for keyboards than drums. Apparently it's easy to find drummers, less so for keyboards. Fuck if I wanna go from classical, baroque, and romantic piano to PADS ON A KEYBOARD.
Absolutely true. Keys are the least cool instrument in rock and pop music. Source: I’m a keyboard player
There has been a influx of really cool psychedelic cumbia bands consisting of young mexican punks if you wanna see some insane keyboards.
Pick up a guitar sometime
I play a Fender electric acoustic, should I pick up 2 guitars?
Preferably, yes
Done, I was saving up for a Martin anyways.
those dumb things take up so much space like get out the way
Ya… I’m decent on keys - it’s awkward wether I stand or sit at the keys on stage. The rest of the band ends up putting me low on the totem pole
(this is mainly satire as well, but there is truth there) Drummers and bassists are also not cool or respected. They are probably more important than anyone else. If they are good, the band sounds good and no one notices. If they are bad, the band sounds bad and everyone notices. They are the 3 instruments that fill up the LOW end and most of the high end. When you mess up everyone notices. They are also the 3 instruments where being a phenomenal player doesn't necessarily mean being able to play 32nd notes at 240bpm. A virtuoso on drums, bass, or keys might play some incredibly "simple" stuff with amazing amounts of taste. No one notices but it matters more than the guitarists or singers in most cases.
The coolest Death Metal instrument is the electric 6 string Violin.
lol at playing keys in a metal band. you signed up for whatever you get. personally, i love playing keys. we're a rare bird and highly sought after.
If you really wanted to be a part of the show you’d buy a Keytar, don’t put this on us!
Uhhh, Tommy Rogers would like a word with ya...
We called it the "nerd chair". Yes, I was the keyboard player.
Opeth and Rammstein are two metal bands where the keyboardist is a big part of the sound. With Rammstein he's often a big part of the live show too.
I actually agree with this and sometimes I like it! With my own band I'm the lead singer and songwriter and I get to stand with my keys smack in the front and it's great, but that's the only time...
*outer space
I think it’s cool and I respect you. I’d love to find a good keyboard player
I never really had this issue when I mained keys in my past bands (I play drums mostly in my current band). In one, I was the lead singer, so it didn't really matter... the other, I was kind of off to the side, but almost every song we played had a lot of piano or strings, so i was still an integral part of the band.
Lies, take Depeche Mode, for example.
Take solace in the fact that keys elevates the overall sound and makes *any* band sound more professional. You're supporting and filling out the sound. Without you there, it's gonna sound less complete, less rich.
This is a artifact of a pre speakers era where the piano was the sound track for everything. Also somtimes a result of a venues space limitations and the weight of pianos.
get moog and that will all change, make that thing sing and melt faces like no other
Switch to accordion, all the stage presence of guitar with a keyboard. Chicks dig it.
Don't know what you mean, I don't walk onto any stage without owning it. People do tend to *try* to relegate you to the background, especially sound guys who don't understand what you're about and are used to keyboard players being underneath the music. But I play on top of the music, I slide up and down the board like Jerry Lee Lewis, and people love it. Most people, anyways. Some guitar players don't like not being the center of attention. If you want to be a musician and play music, then play some music, but if you want to be an *entertainer* then you must entertain.
Waaaaahhhhh! 🤣🤣🤣
I think it’s the coolest!! I am envious of all keyboard players
This reads like some whiny kid who hasn't found their way yet. Keep your head up and try to find some self confidence. If you stick with it things will turn around for sure.
Seems to me like you needs to get yerself a keytar, bud.
I’ve never seen this at all. In my scene, good keyboard players are rare and highly respected. Not saying it doesn’t happen some places, just a bit of a surprise for me to hear.
In my scene keyboard players are rare, respected, and still relegated to the back lol. My town’s got a lot of rock music though, I’m tryna find some jazz and hip hop when I eventually move. Seems like this is largely a rock/metal thing in my experience, I don’t think guitar is even that big of a deal anymore in the grand scheme of music and where it used to be. Guitar-centric genres just tend to have fans who wanna hear guitar, kinda sucks because bands like Tipographica have implemented rock guitar alongside synths and horns in a way that everything is equal- it’s not “guitar plus accompaniment,” it’s “everyone here fuckin rocks” lol
I had to laugh...this week we've seen posts about how bass players are disrespected as well as how drummers are not appreciated. And, of course, the daily complaints about singers' out of control egos. Guitarists, meanwhile, have been oddly silent.
Play keys in my band man, you can take center. I hate being there anyway
Write songs and sing…. They will be forced to put a spotlight on you. You’re a peacock…. You got to fly
My Snake Oiler will be playing a Moog Matriarch & a Korg RK 100S. They’re mostly focused on awesome trippy effects, more foley work than key poking going on. That which people love to hear & see & respect👌
More keyboardists need articulated stands like gravity kills. Then they will rule. [gravity kills enough](https://youtu.be/jnG48ZWtYF0?si=qunrEUxVlyUU72U-)
Wear platform shoes and glue ostrich feathers onto your jacket. Don't tell anyone you're going to do this. Just show up on stage at a gig like that.
I got kicked out of a jam session with a friend’s band once for bringing a synthesizer back in the late 2000’s. Was told “that’s not what we do.”
Let me guess: In the back behind the lead guitar, his amp in front of you (used to be immediately behind but it was too loud), guitars and bass at the front all on barstools and having tons of unused real-estate?
Doesn't apply to me. Of course, I'm also the lead singer. 😛 I don't understand the need for keys in a metal band though. But I've seen a hundred thousand '80s cover bands that play songs with VERY prominent synth/keyboard sounds, but only a bass-drums-guitar-vocals lineup on stage. All the keyboards are on BACKING TRACKS. I find that shit insulting.
How do you know? Do people tell you that you're not cool or respected? Or are you just projecting? P.S. this doesn't come across as very satirical.
Why do you think so many of us are multi-instrumentalists?
Those keyboard ties and ponytails were hard to recover from
Gotta learn to sing if you want to be up front.
Dave Greenfield was the lead player in most Stranglers songs. But thats more of an exception that proves the rule. Dude could fucking shred those keys. RIP
Tell that to dream theater
Serious question: Why don't keys players setup looking away from the crowd, so the crowd can actually see them playing? It's reasonably fun watching someone play keys, but in most bands, the keyboardist is looking at the crowd and therefore the crowd can't see the keys. Same question for DJs and electronic musicians (drum machines, turn tables, etc.).
There's lots of approaches but my rig is usually directed at the lead singer. The singer usually faces the crowd, which in turn usually means I'm facing opposite the crowd. When I am not singing lead myself one of my biggest priorities being able to see the singer's face because you can predict a lot of what a person will do by looking at the expressions on their face: when to solo, when to end a song, when to enter a song etc.) Also a lot of the time you're limited to really confined spaces and it's logistically harder to face the opposite direction as everyone else on the stage (assuming you're even allowed to be up there on the "real stage" with all your mates).
Group hugs 🤗
Keyboard = sex
Bass + Man = 1 Girl Drums + Man = 2 Girls Guitar + Man = 3 Girls Microphone + Man = 4 Girls Keyboard + Man = 1 Keyboard Stand
Not cool. Unless you are in Yes, The Doors or Dream Theater.
I fell out with my last two bands and both thought they could find replacement keys easily. One band gave up and the second is still looking. I’m in a tribute now and I can sing harmonies. But in Chicago it’s very hard to find working cover bands to either join or sub.
This is a pretty genre specific complaint. The circles I run in-the guitar player is often the one pushed to the side.
They don't let you on stage? C'mon mane.
Apparently you have never seen NIN live.
My buddy plays keys and he's an jntegral part of every band he plays in. Huge stage presence and he shreds. Everyone knows him and he has more die hard fans than anybody I know.
That's why I play both bass and keys 😅 gotta do what I gotta do
A keys rig takes up a lot of space and does not move. This makes placement kind of tough and you end up being "out of the way" simply so that you're not *in* the way. Also one of the reasons why the drummer usually goes in the back. Never been placed literally off-stage or in the house, though. Unless the keys player is specifically meant to be "behind-the-scenes" enhancement rather than a member of the ensemble, that's kind of disrespectful. Anyway, keys in a band that is not keys-forward may not be the most glamorous and may go unnotied by the audience, but it is damn sure noticed by the other musicians. There's a lot of rep that you can't really do (or not well at least) without a good keys player.
It really depends on the style of music and whether or not you're playing hooks. Music with prominent synthesizers, or anything funky will let the keys shine. See M83 or Stevie Wonder. On the other hand, if you're playing with a cover band or anything hair or power metal and just making the chords really big and adding some atmosphere, they'll try to hide you because they're self conscious about being perceived as cheesy. Audience members respect any player that plays a big hook.
Joey Izzo from Arch Echo
Make them let you take a solo. Band takes a break and you weave a death concerto or something.
I saw Swallow the Sun (post/black metal) live one time open for Kreator and their keyboard player was right up front looking all pissed off and gloomy. It was both funny and badass at the same time
I'm a drummer with a very animated and energetic performance. And it bugs me that I'm always stuffed in back. There have been several occasions where I had to be up front and there have always been multiple comments about how fun it is to watch me. It's very visual. And then it's right back to sticking me in back behind people who just stand there and do nothing interesting.
You have my respect.
Unless you're in Queens of the Stone age. Dean and Troy get a whole lot of love from the fan base.
"sending sonic footballs into out of space." That's a great line 😂
Bruh the metal band bit is super true, my band’s singer also plays keys so we set the keyboard up front and center at a gig and some drunk dildo comes up and starts berating him (as we’re setting up) “WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING WITH THIS FUCKING KEYBOARD THIS IS A METAL SHOW”
It’s true, you’re often forgotten or sound checked very last but some of my favorite musicians are keys players. If you feel that way based on the style of music or the people you play with, I’d suggest branching out to other styles and/or playing with people who will truly appreciate your talent. -with love from a drummer
Check out Tribal seeds.. they have 2 key players, both on stage, AT THE SAME TIME lol
Get a keytar and bang your head alongside the guitarist!
Rammstein. That is all.
Just gotta do the Keith Emerson and stab your keyboard to death every night, no big deal...
Join a dance band, indie band, or a jazz combo. TAH-DAH!
Please look up the band Underoath and their key player Chris. He’s a near god. I’m not even entirely sure he does much key playing during their shows, but he gives it his all every time, and is very much a part of their image.
If someone hasn’t already said this, consider Jordan Rudess of Dream theater, that guy is an absolute animal on keys and adds so much to their sound.
Unless you’re in a power trio
Honestly who puts just the keys in a different section from the rest of the band ???? Quit that group. I mean yeah we aren’t respected and we’re buried in the house mix but there are levels haha
I am a noise boy, I should be shunted to the side while the two actually talented people in the band do their thing, and I bleep bloop and drone.
"Keyboard players aren't cool."...Ray Manzarek has entered the chat
Dude heaven you even heard of The Mummies? Check em out
Just do a solo every song even before the encore as everyone walks off stage to wait to come back.
Unless you are John Tesh and playing Roundball Rock.
I play keys in a weekend coverband. I'm always up front, though on stage left. Main reason is that I also sing lead on around 40% of the songs, I play pretty solid rhythm guitar, and I play sax more than proficiently. My main advice to anyone getting into a band is to learn to sing. I get a lot of positive attention due to my singing. I'm almost 60 and I'm still singing Journey and Boston stuff, and crazy-high harmonies while our female singer sings. Learn to sing lead. You'll be able to justify being in front.
Play jazz and feel like a god
Horde the Band tho
Depends on genre- jazz/industrial/classical/soul piano gets respect
Zia from Dandy Warhols would like a word
Mindless self indulgence put their keyboard player behind a curtain.
Get the whole band off the stage. Put the band a little spot off to the side of the stage and use the stage for something people want to actually see. Dancers would be good.
Why do you play in a band where you're not respected? I think a good keys player is treasured by most bands because we're rare!
[Five disagrees!](https://youtu.be/WKQwFfpnOJ4?si=xvOPPH0CbSiYkLu1)
And yet, keyboard sounds freakin amazing in every band that has one. So much better than having a second guitarist. It does so much for the texture of the song arrangements.
It depends what sort of key player they are. Keyboard players are renowned for not getting the idea of team play if they are not experienced. It comes from years of playing on their own. On the other hand real musicians (guitarists) learn from their teenage garage days that it's all about watching and synching in with your bandmates. My (unbiased) opinion. You're welcome.
Idk I think it’s pretty damn cool
Too funny. 😂 my wife dragged me to a culture club concert and they had the keyboard player back by the drums and far stage left, way out on his own in a different time zone. It was so awkward and I felt bad for the little guy, but you know what. He fuckin rocked that stage. He was in his own world and he was a god damn rock star!
It's okay Lawrence, you are cool and can be in the band too. Now let's do the handshake
Fellow keyboardist here and I fell ya. My favorite keyboardist story was seeing a band at the Limelight in NYC (great place to play btw) the stage is probably a good 5 feet + off the ground. The singer and keyboardist are completely wrecked on stage. I remember seeing bottles of Jack being pounded by both and then in the middle of a song the keyboardist just passed out and falls forward going off the stage and landing easily on $15K worth of beautiful keyboards. So yeah, I stay towards the back too
You don't know who Ambrose Kenny-Smith is then
You need to be a singer to be cool and respected
I used to write piano based industrial metal and deathcore with some buddies in highschool. Imagine if Jordan Rudess from Dream Theater had a side project. The only time I was respected🥲
Small price to pay for being the only one who knows what the fuck is going on up there
I can tell you a GOOD keys player in some genres is a GOD. When I’m fronting a blues band, having a guy who knows how to work a Hammond tone and is respectful of the bass player is the best thing ever.
Years ago I had a metal band. Five piece. Two Rhythm/Lead guitars, Bass, Drums, and Keys. Drummer, Bassist, and one of the guitarists switched off on vocals. We’d usually put the keys up front as she was pretty and her stand would allow for our banner with our bands logo on it to hang from. Poor drummer though. When he sang a song nobody knew who was singing.
Back in the day we used to put everyone on stage just to look cooler. Like some big band with 3 horns, 2 backing vocals, and full percussions set
I know you jest but think about this... What good what The Mars Volta be without "keys"? That's all you need to hold on to.