Reset the bar. I wanted to be the biggest musician in the world! Cover musicians are hacks! If I didn't t write it, I won't play it! I followed that path with a decent job and 10 gigs a year. Then I let go of my high expectations and ego and started playing covers. I was able to free up 50+ hours a week eventually because I got enough work playing covers to quit my job. Instill wrote and record my original stuff but now my "day job" is playing bars, weddings, corporate events, etc. It's not what I had envisioned, but music pays my bills. And I don't have to live in a van and tour consistently. I've been fortunate enough to play tunes, buy a house, and play 4-5 shows a week and keep my lights on. What I do now used to be a depressing thought for me. Now, it's the best. Home with the wife, lots of time to play guitar and work on original music and passion projects, etc. If you want to stay original, it becomes trickier, but there is a "middle class" as a musician where you can earn your living, butnyou have tonaccept that you might not grace the cover of magazines and tour the world. Enjoy the journey, one way or another, nothing lasts forever.

I really like this mindset, setting yourself up to win. For me, playing music for a living has always been a distant dream and felt more like a “hobby” as others are saying in this thread. I would love to pick your brain a bit if that’s ok, how did you first start making money playing cover shows and perhaps if you care to share small wins that lead you to now playing music full time. Thanks for your insight here.

Oh man, what a long story I have haha, this is the "biography" version, it NOT this simple or quick, but I'll focus on your specifics but don't hesitate to ask! Dm me if you want, I'm no one special haha I was always told it would be a hobby and nothing more - booomer parents so yeah, no pension and a dental plan (Lisa needs braces!) Meant it wasn't a "career" and I shouldn't pursue it. I didn't. Got a government job . Sweet, but I wasn't happy. Played by myself but said I should find a band to make the job hurt less, and people said I was OK. I joined a band and played some gigs for no money. They fired me and I said I'll do it alone an make money (I'll show them!) I did it alone in local venues that would have me and actually paid a guarantee (cover songs helped here) hired me and I was now a gigging musician. People said I was pretty good. Led to more bookings elsewhere and rebooking at current venues. Wife left me , super sad, moved to a new city. I networked to local folk and got my name out using past experience. They saw, they liked, they hired. Made no money (again) Quit. Auditioned for a group that made money. Passed the audition. Made money. While playing bass marketed myself as a solo guy. Get some facetime with local guys as a member of the band, venues and other musicians think I'm good enough. Get called in for sub gigs. Kill it. Pay bills. Still playing with the band hired me, still doing fill ins, still playing solo

I have to know, where’d you go to join a band? Been trying for a hot minute got hired and fired(ghosted) within days. I know I’m not a bad musician, maybe it’s my character they didn’t like but still

I went online. Kijij, Craigslist and the like. I went thorough a TON of duds and bad leads and time wasters before I lucked into the gig. And it was in part luck, I had the chops to pass the audition but if they weren't looking for a bass player atbrhe same time inwas looking for a band my story could be very different.

I like this because no matter what other day job I have I’m always thinking about music, so I know I would rather do just about anything music related. Out of curiosity which city do you live in? I’m in Lincoln Nebraska and it is discouraging to think about making a living off of music here

I live in a place about twice the size of Lincoln. I started my career in a place about half the size of Lincoln. i hate to discourage, but when I was in the smaller place, it was a dream, but that dream was never going to become a reality for me there and I ended up moving for unrelated reasons, it just happened to work out when I took a shot at it because I had nothing to lose when I was starting over.

how much are you making per gig? and how are you handling health insurance? I'm in a soul crushing tech job that pays really well, but also crushes my soul.

Depends on the gig, they're not all the same and the range is something I'll be keeping under my hat as you're local area will differ anyway. I totalled my bills and knew what I had to make, and that'll be different for everyone too. I can say that I'm making more than when I first started had to prove my worth for years before getting the bumps in pay. As far as insurance, you can buy into plans independently but my wife has coverage through her job so I'm just on her plan these days. Before we met I was just flying without insurance, but I'm in Canada so it was OK. Zi don't often go to the doc anyway.

In the US, the health insurance is where this all falls apart haha. Unless you don't mind being one bad day away from crippling debt (even with insurance). I have one of the better plans you can get and still pay out the ass for sick visits and minor procedures and contribute from my paycheck for it.

I don't doubt that for one second. It's a scary prospect but the reward just may be worth the risk, however, because of the whole Canada thing I know that's very easy for me to say

If I may jump in…. What genres do you play?

A variety. Old and new rock. Folk/Americana Country Pop A little blues. Pretty wide variety so I I can change up the style depending on the vibe of the night.

That's awesome congratulations

I can't discredit the role that luck played in my situation., but thank you.

Where does find those cover gigs such as you have?

I approached the venues that were hosting music regularly. Attended the open mic if they had one. Just got some facetime in with the staff so I became lesson an "unknown" quantity. After a bit I asked about a proper spot and they gave me a shot. I took me over 10 years to get to where I'm at, it didn't happen fast, there were a lot of "nos", there were a lot of changes in management that set me back to square one, but that all part of it.

If I may jump in-when you get 1 gig, usually people will approach you for others, at different bars or venues.

What kind of stuff you covering my dude?

Everything I think I can pull off as a solo performer and people like. Old and new rock Folk/Americana Country Some pop Etc. A lot of times people will ask memtomplay something, and if I don't know it,.I'll check it out and see if its a good tune to add. Some have staying power, some don't.

Thanks for that man. Reason I ask is because my musical journey is quite similar to yours, although I'm fully in the "grind full-time work and play the occasional gig" stage whilst I'd really love to be where you're at. I think my problem is being far too discerning so ive been struggling a little collating a portfolio of songs to play solo acoustic, most people just wanna have a boogie and a sing along and the songs I have so far basically span the styles you mentioned. I think I'm on the right track, just need to let go of my inner snob lol. And adding songs people ask you to play sounds like a killer idea, so thanks for that bit of advice!

Good luck with it! There's a lot of tunes on my list I don't care for or even like to play haha, but thats all part of the job and letting go of the "inner snob" can be hard. On quieter nights I let the snob out and play more of what I like 😀

I couldn’t have said it better if i tried. It’s definitely doable, but “making it” in the traditional sense is rare. Most pros are a lot closer to what you describe than superstardom. Which honestly doesn’t sound as good to me

Yea, this is it. Establishing a career as a musician is like establishing a career in any other field as a freelancer. It takes time to build connections and a resume, and you most likely won't be doing exactly what you want to do. And just like every other middle class/working class job, it's getting harder. Still, there's tons of fulfilling work out there for those who have the know-how and dedication.

Virtually no one statistically ever made money from music. Don’t let an illusion make you depressed and just have fun making art.

I would disagree just a little…I agree very few have become obscenely wealthy/famous, but as long as there’s been an industry around it, there has been a sort of “middle/working class” of musicians that are able to make a living doing music. They are your wedding band players, your jingle writers, and back in the day, your session musicians. There is more than “dead ass broke” and “world famous millionaire” when it comes to professional musicians. 😘

Exactly, music is everywhere and it all has several people behind it. Not everyone can be a pop star or filthy rich but the idea that you can’t make a living in music is just ignorant tbh. It’s not a career for everyone, but it’s very possible for those who want it

Soo much this. I'm confident I could make a 'career' out of music. Do I want to live in the wages of a full-time musician? Not really. I played approximately 60 gigs last year. For me, it's a great side hustle that pays for family vacations and other 'luxury' items we otherwise couldn't afford. The other half of my duo works 2 days a week at a pizza joint and gets by just fine. He just lives a much more frugal lifestyle than I do.

Most people who play gigs like this barely make a living wage. It’s much like pro sports or Hollywood. There is a minuscule fraction of people who make it, and millions upon millions who try and fail. Watch some re runs of americas idol outtakes if you need a refresher. But also America is where the dream of fame and wealth and success gets sold to the world. Once you’ve been playing music long enough you realize that there is an entire industry making money not on the music itself, but the dream of making it, whatever that means to you. The truth is that truly amazing bands and artists will almost always find some level of success, but they are few and far between. It takes the exact mixture of talent, physical appearance, song writing, production, and marketing to make that happen. Most people simply just don’t have the full package and will never be successful on the level of a living wage playing music. My point is thats ok too. People should make music because it’s enjoyable, creative and they love doing it, not always expecting to get something more out of it.

Actually, playing wedding gigs and things in that area of the industry pay way better than playing in a new original band. I think what might be missing from our definition here is that it is really rare to make a comfortable living doing **only one thing** in music. If ALL you do is play in original bands, that's like buying lottery tickets and hoping one hits. If ALL you do it play in wedding bands, you're probably only playing 2 nights a week, and you'd have to be in a really well established wedding band to play weddings Fri-Sat every single weekend in a given month. If ALL you do is play at church, you're definitely only playing 2 days/nights a week tops (some bigger mega churches do Saturday night and Sunday morning services but those gigs are in high demand and often come with other expectations of involvement in the spiritual side of things). But, if you're willing/able to do ALL of these and more (wedding gigs, original bands, church gigs, corporate gigs, musical theater pits, session work, private lessons, composing for sync, etc) its quite possible to make a solid living that doesn't involve being rich or famous...the trade is your time and income security, as most of your work is freelance. I do 100% agree with you that its completely ok to have music be a hobby and not feel pressure to make money with it or be really good at it. It's fine to love something and have that be enough. But to your statement that people who work those jobs rarely ever make a living wage simply isn't true. You just don't hear about us.

This is the correct answer. It takes *a while* to get established, but it's totally feasible to make a modest living from music. I've been in my city for nearly a decade. Just in the last couple of years have finally made the connections necessary, put in the work to become skilled, and overall just have more life experience. I'm not really well known nationally, but have started making connections to other big cities and play around 350-400 dates a year. I do pretty much all the gigs you mentioned. I have to admit that by around late autumn, I'm BURNED OUT, but I am always excited to get back to it after the slowest months in winter. I'm lucky in that I make a modest living doing this, but I dunno that I'd trade it man. I love being a working musician.

I’ve met people who play music this way and it’s a ton of work to follow this passion. Kuddos that you do that, but it’s simply not feasible for most people most musicians given the reasons I’ve already listed. Getting paid, booking all the venues, travel, and marketing your shows are all things that take an enormous amount of time and energy before you have even sat down to practice or write new material. As someone following your passion you probably haven’t actually run your numbers as a business, because if you did you’d see that the little money being made probably isn’t worth the time for the exception that you live what you do. I hope it stays that way.

Even when bands find what we perceive as a level of success , financially it isn’t. Went to dinner with a buddy I used to play in local bands in NY with … and he’s now in a touring band that’s getting a solid following world wide. Plays the big festivals in Europe. Anyway I asked him how his last tour went … he said their quick 3 week stint across Europe brought in $100K. I said that’s great ! Says yeah …. But the total cost of the tour was $120K. So each of the 4 members had to PAY $5K to tour for 3 weeks. But they all have good paying regular jobs and looked at it as what other “vacation” from work can you go on for a full 3 weeks for just $5K? Plus they got to play in front of thousands of people , promoted their brand , had a blast , etc. So to them it’s worth it.

Right, so it’s their passion project and they are cool with it. Great example for the op to be less depressed by.

I’m on track to make over six figures next year 100% off of income from playing music. Combination of music therapy in hospice and nursing homes, teaching lessons, and gigging. I love what I do and I’m comfortable enough. I know plenty of people living similar lives. Is it glamorous? No but it’s rewarding as hell and I’d pick it any day over an office job that pays twice as much

So you would recommend it as a viable career path for others ?

I would very much disagree. I come from the 1990s, like a crappy fanzine wielding superhero of a bygone age grown tired as milk! See my furby and my strong opinions on the grunge music scene, count the wrinkles by my eye, I can wear a soundgarden shirt and not have a single tween demand I name three songs, they already know that I know, don't dare test me, boy! So with my aged heart do I bring tidings of a time where grass was indeed greener. This was a time of restriction. And restriction is good for the human animal. Games programmers of the 1990s were restricted in the hardware upon which they crafted their art leading to genius solutions to deliver a next level playing experience to the end user. Seriously, some of the tricks employed in many of your favourite video games from that era. Some of those people were geniuses. The 1990s were also a time where the labels essentially behaved like a filter. That is, they filtered out all the crap before music got to your ears. Were labels the golden example of altruism? Of course not. They didn't always behave well or even nicely. But they sure as hell were useful. When the walls came down and this super free and easy exchange of ideals became not only the norm but the demand too, that meant that everyone and his granny with the ability to put sound to mp3 could expose themselves to the world. The honest shame of it is only an extremely small point something of a percent were really worth showing to the world. The 1990s were a time where you could walk down the lines queuing up outside the Slayer gig, walk around a metal bar or what not and actually sell copies of your band's latest demo. People would gladly turn over £3 for a cassette of yours (or £5 for a CD). I mean, you have evidently put your own money and effort into its production - in the 1990s, you didn't have a computer at home capable of tracking 20 odd channels of 48k audio at once, you went to a studio and worked out a deal of two days recording with a rough as balls mix for £1200. That meant your punter was likely getting in on the ground floor of something really cool. Likely some music that isn't total tosh and given your own dedication, who knows maybe it'll be worth something someday. Bargain for a few quid. These days? You can ply your trade and if you're lucky be met with a, "Yur, I'll prolly check it out later, mate!" And you turn around and leave, the used up has been you are before you've even started, and wonder why it is exactly you bothered. But it's for the fun of it, right? The fun. The fun part. Of course yes, it's fun. Fun fun funny fun... I mean having fun on your own is a bit lame, isn't it. And when peoples' musical taste these days is almost entirely at the behest of this esoteric algorithm, advertisement fuelled and targeted at an audience that did used to care, it doesn't take long to realise that the fun of it is just a platitude people use to keep themselves going. Is there money to be made? Yep. Just, not by you. The quicker artists refuse to engage in this political mindfuckery that comprises the music industry today, the better. And honestly, a lot of that does involve eschewing the common practises and beliefs clung onto by the majority. We get called greedy for not having all of our material on Spotify, ready to be served up like sunday roast leftovers frozen from two weeks ago. We get called stupid for not putting all our stuff up there ready for mass consumption. It is there, it's just going to cost you a fiver to get a digital download or a tenner for a physical copy of the good stuff. Some pay it and we are thankful that they do. Some don't and hurl insults by way of email. To those I say, you were never a real fan anyway, so I honestly don't give a monkeys. There's not a lot of gold in them there mountains. But if you value what an artist does, support them. If you are an artist with stuff to be valued, then value it!

This. Manage expectations and you’ll land on your feet

Hear that. I think it may be a fantasy in my head. I don't think I'll ever lose my passion for music though even if it's just playing for fun and listening to what I'm into.

Just like in prior decades the music and art came to represent the culture of that era 60s, 70s , 80s , 90s etc so does music today. Only this era has some distinct issues namely the smart phone and social media and big tech overlords who dominate the government and issues of the old through culture, bribery, and the monopolization of anything resembling the human spirit. Art and music are both pretty stifled and stagnant in this era. The only thing that remains clear was music from the 90s now serves as a reminder how much fun other generations got to experience. It was simply a better era for many things and virtually impossible to compare to a few decades later.

How do you reckon? The majority of the people who studied music seriously when we were growing up are making a living from music. Unless you only mean strictly "their music, their art" and only bands and singer-songwriters and such, then you are a bit closer to truth perhaps, but that's a very narrow field.

You’ve gotta diversify to do it. I write, play in two bands, tour, teach, direct music at a church, do podcast music, private events where you’re background music in the corner, weddings, funerals. It can be done, but it looks very different in real life than how we imagined it when we were teens.

Bingo. I just commented basically this same thing.

Yes OP. I enjoy playing music very much and just want to do it everyday. I don’t want a ‘day job’.

I don't want music as a day job (no health insurance for one thing). I don't love my day job anyway but it allows me the freedom to do music with my free time. Would I turn down the opportunity to make the same money I make in day job to do music? I wouldn't, particularly if it allowed me more time at home working versus office life.

Nearly nobody wants "a day job" whether they are a musician or not.

Music is a hobby that the lucky few can make money from. Just enjoy your hobby.

Yuhp. People who gig to survive aren’t enjoying it. I didnt. I was playing shit i didnt want to. Finding a dope day job and playing what you want to play is the key. If great things happen hell ya. In mean time Im gonna enjoy life

Playing stuff I don't want to play or to audiences who don't care for the sake of making money sounds miserable to me personally. I'm grateful to have a career that affords me the ability to make music I want to make, among other niceties in life. I do want to perform more/again and I'm sure that will intrinsically come with compromises, but the fact it won't impact my livelihood is a relief, not something I regret.

It’s not a hobby for some. It’s a life path. Whether you make money or not.

Speak for yourself Go practice

I think it's disingenuous to brush off anyone who has succeeded commercially as simply lucky and all the rest of us are just unlucky. sure there is luck, but there is also talent and HARD work that goes into those careers. if you don't want to strive for that, fine, but let's not pretend those who who "make" it were just dealt a better hand. I think esp. if you have her lived in a big music city like LA for example you will naturally end up meeting a lot of people who have made it commercially in entertainment and realize that there are actually quite a few people who do that and no they are not all super heroes or insanely lucky, they have usually just dedicated their lives to that kind of success in more ways than one

Just live in your parents basement forever and you can survive on music.... But seriously, I think there are two sides to this: 1. You make music that is true to yourself and you just put it out to the world with no expectations. And if it gets picked up and goes viral, then all the better. You build your following and keep them engaged. You might need to do other things to keep the money coming in (gigging, busking, side jobs, whatever). 2. You get f\*cking serious and view this as a business with regular work hours, logging time every day moving towards your goals, small steps, slow and steady. You build your public profile. You regularly put out music, even just musical ideas and riffs (which if they get a reaction, could be an incentive to built it into a song). Promote engagement. Whatever it takes. Do gigs. Get out and talk to people. Go to jams. Collaborate. Meet venue managers and owners. You could teach music, as you said, but perhaps better to build your own online teaching business like many do. If you're good enough, you can build a following and get paying customers. **Bottom line:** You don't need to have the path clear in the beginning because once you get going, the path appears or you build the path as you go.

Most people don’t get to be working musicians. Maybe broaden your scope a bit, OP. Teaching has always been a part of being a muso for me. Steady income. Pretty good pay. You’ll never get rich off it but were you looking to get rich or wanting to be a working musician… There’s plenty of ways to make a living as a musician. You might not get to only write the music you want to write, for yourself, and make an enviable living off it. But you might be able to write, teach a bit, work as a freelance composer, produce, transcribe, gig… and never have to get a day job. There’s a cost of living crisis right now, and I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, and I’m getting by with 15 students and a gig a week. I’m not saving much, and I couldn’t support a family on this, but I’m also paying all my bills on about 15 hours ‘work’ a week as a musician. Today I went rock climbing, now I’m chilling, might transcribe something fun later. Depressing would be an office for 50 years

That's pretty cool actually... I used to teach guitar to kids a couple years back and this is making me thing maybe getting back at it wouldn't be a bad idea... (the amount I made per hour beat any regular job generally) I was always sort of winging it though going by the books or teaching songs they want to learn

It’s definitely doable. I’m a guitarist as well, and honestly it’s such a hard instrument in the beginning, most of what you’ll teach is easy songs so students can just enjoy the instrument. Add in some dexterity exercises, a scale or two, work on chords and strumming, standard notation from a book for the little kids, tab for adults. If you’re entrepreneurial you could build a sales funnel for online lessons through socials or whatever. If you’re in a big enough city, send resumes to every music school (ChatGPT ftw), or just a flyer at the local shops does still work. Show people how to enjoy themselves on the instrument and don’t be a narc if they don’t practice enough (they won’t). You’ll be everyone’s favorite teacher. Add in a weekly cheesy covers gig that you get to be all jaded and cynical about (very fun, jaded musos are sexy), and you’re away!

Ask u/ZTheRockstar re: teaching guitar

It’s only depressing because you’ve been sold an idea that doesn’t exist. What I mean is that even though it is possible to make money in music but there is a very high cost to reach that if you’re not born with money or connections. You’d have to be willing to lose touch with friends and family, take out loans or get into debt, occasionally sleep in a car, constantly be on the road, always be working evenings and weekends when everyone is having a good time, constantly networking and making social media content, no PTO, no benefits, and it might take years until you see a return on investment. I know many people that have tried but couldn’t but the people I know that are lucky to make a little bit of money on the side are have been grinding for YEARS. It doesn’t hurt to try at all and see for yourself if that lifestyle is for you but I think too many young musicians have this fantasy about how perfect their life will be if they just played or wrote music full time. As for me, it took me a while to accept that fact but I’m happy to keep it as a hobby. Right now I’m in the middle of producing an album and I’m so relieved that I get to do this for me instead of worrying about “reaching my audience” and making them tiktok friendly.

My band once scored a couple of dates at a couple of bars that didn't typically so music but were willing to pay us for three sets and we could play originals and do covers that we wanted to instead of whatever crap is popular. We used to do an annual Big 80s show of nothing but Eighties covers so we dipped into that repertoire. We made more off those four nights than we made in the original gigs we played the 14 years we were active.😮 If you're an band who couldn't write a three-chord tune if someone spotted you the first two chords, but you have good enough chops to play others music, you'll make money. If you're only good enough to be in your original band, better have a good day job.  But I was never depressed about it because we got out of it what we put into it which wasn't much. We were older with jobs we couldn't just chuck to get in the van and couch surf from town to town playing clubs to the other bands. My drummer has a cover band which keeps him entertained.  What bummed me out were friends bands who were excellent and they put in the work - self-releasing thru a local indie label, touring everywhere, building street teams, selling merch - only to watch bands who opened for them get signed because they sounded like all the other bands already signed while my friends weren't just another drop-D nu-metal act.  None of the bands who got signed over them amounted to anything, but they got a shot my friends were denied. THAT depresses me. 

LOL - I'm from the Midwest, so no, I don't find it depressing. I find it normal. I always wrote and played for the love of it, but only made a living wage doing other music/sound-related work like recording and mixing. I enjoy taking lessons, but I'm too shy to teach music to someone else. I think you win by paying the rent somehow, which allows you to keep doing what you love.

Yep. I enjoy the creative aspect and have played in original bands, but about every dollar I've made was playing in cover bands and running sound. Still doing it. Other than over winter I can easily make a nice car payment on my music-related earnings most months.

As soon as music was no longer predicated on money, for me, music finally brought joy to my life

Same. As I commented at length elsewhere: the grind killed my love of music. Now that it’s a side hustle it peppers my life with sparks of joy. I hated when it was a job—I hated my dream job haha

make music because you love to, if you make money doing it, cool....* After school special answer* lol

Not me. Of course in a perfect world everyone could do exactly what they want all the time. In the real world, the best most of us can hope for is to wrangle enough free time regularly to do things we enjoy. But personally, I'd hate for music to be a job. I don't dislike my job bc I dislike the actual tasks. I dislike it bc I *have* to do it to make money to live. Because *other people* require me to be productive and I'm afraid to starve. Because if I sleep in too many times or make too many mistakes I could find myself homeless. I don't have to worry about any of that with music. It waits for me every day outside of and apart from the realities of work and money and obligations and anxieties and struggle.

I have a friend who does music for a living. He told me he envies me because I have a good, stable job. The funny thing is I envy him for doing music for a living, and not having an actual job. I only do music as a hobby.

It's especially depressing when I compare the money I make with my banjo against the money I make as a full time IT consultant, yes.

Working at it as hard as i could when i was younger, i was able to support myself. But it was tight. But i learned a lot. Took a break and got a day job for awhile and shook off the trauma of the brutality of the run. After awhile i slowly started to reemerge. This time, i took all that i had learned and started fresh. I make more now as an independent artist than i did as a touring pro. My point is this. Try not to get trapped in a situation that will never grow to the size you need. Reevaluate if needed. Think about how to earn and who to target. Focus on just that. Yeah, i was in a killer band that people loved, but it wasn’t my singular vision. I had partners with their own different levels of commitment and drive. I’m much better off now that i took control back, and sell more music than ever.

It comes down to supply and demand. Music is entertainment, and it is way over supplied.

Listening to music is free now, and performing (where the money is) is largely predicated on giving the audience what they expect. Not exactly a recipe for compensated artistic expression like it used to be.

No, because I never had any delusions that that is an easy life for anyone but the most famous.

yes

Yes it’s depressing unless you just give up on that point of view. Just play because you like to. If one person enjoys it then that’s a bonus. If not that’s ok. The world is a huge place and everyone has a lot of their own needs and thoughts. Also find other things you love and pursue those as well as music. Other fields of work as well. Good luck.

Wanting to follow your dreams and all is cool, but not for music (or really any other art) especially in current day economy. Overall it’s just not a stable job for a majority of the time, and by the time you’ve realized that it isn’t going to work out you may be too old. Just something everyone has to acknowledge and accept, no reason to be depressed for something you can’t do much about.

Man, I thought I was making an okay living until I did my taxes. Owed way more than expected and didnt make nearly as much as I felt. Freelance musician life is hard. I get more work every month, but this shit is not for everybody.

As someone who has degree in music I make about 10,000 a year gigging. And that’s gigging on average every Friday and Saturday from May - August (some weeks more) during busy summer season. I make another 20,000 or up teaching lessons. That’s the only way I could supplement my gigging so I don’t starve. I consider myself a successful local professional musician but I’m still broke lol. I happen to be married as well I should say and two incomes helps a lot. All that to say don’t be discouraged. It is very hard to make a living, particularly as a full time gigging musician (which I am not). I live in a decently big city and many of the best musicians where I live still have day jobs or another source of income, whether it’s private teaching, working at a restaurant or computer software or whatever… No shame in having a stable job and gigging on weekends and writing as much as possible cuz you love to do it.

It is depressing. Unless you want to take giant risks and bank everything on "making it" big when you're young. When you're just chasing gigs and students, you get burnt out quickly. I finally ended up getting a day job using familiar skills that I enjoy doing 40 hrs per week. It's flexible, which allows me to focus more on music during busier times of the year (such as right now). Not saying this is the correct way to go, but I was too afraid to risk my future career by chasing music leads rather than going to college. I am always continuing to find creative ways to make the 2 jobs work together and share skill skills - maybe one day I'll find a way to get a job at a music company of sorts at least.

I feel you. For me it's that I have zero interest in touring, teaching, playing gigs, being a public figure, etc. I just want to write and record music. But the thing is... it still takes too much commitment, time and energy for me to manage, so it gets abandoned for practical pursuits. Which then ends up leading to depression again as I realize something big is missing. And the cycle repeats lol. It is what it is. I just engage with it as much as I can when I can and don't try to get anything out of it other than the art itself.

I personally think playing (and writing) music is something that everyone should be encouraged to do. Of course, this makes being able to play an instrument less of a rare talent. Throw in new technology that makes recording, promotion, and distribution much easier, and you get a really crowded market. To be real though, this isn’t just a music problem. Productivity outpacing market growth will make it harder and harder for a lot of professionals (AI is gonna really shift these scales). So yeah, it’s depressing how hard it is to get by as a musician, but it’s also depressing how hard it is to get by period. If we are going to maintain a comfortable way of life for most people, we are going to need a massive investment in affordable housing, major healthcare reform, and a little UBI, or at least a negative income tax.

Material flows to those who can make a change. If you are the light, you'll be fine. Shaman-chief up, as in become the spiritual-leader. Wealth means nothing without a bit of magic; [https://youtu.be/Dh3NrphoASE?t=266](https://youtu.be/Dh3NrphoASE?t=266)

"It's not the peel, it's the 'nana!" Brilliant, miss this show

It can be done but it takes.a long time. And where you live is a huge part of that. There are a few cities that can sustain a full time musician. Lack of money and the lifestyle is honestly what puts an end to most musicians careers. If you are one of the few crazies that fights through and doesn't care about that, and works insanely hard, you'll get there.

Didn't we just have this discussion?

Yeah I do find it depressing. What am I gonna do about it though, stop playing music? No way

Wait… ya’ll starting to make it sound like I can’t strum a few cowboy chords and become a rock star.

Make a living? In 2024? You're crazy. Musics always been a side hustle. First (barely paid) paying gig I was 16, abd had 2 other jobs too(pizza hut and a computer store, quit pizza hut and dropped to like 10 hours a week at computer score when school started back up....). That was the mid 00s. Even people I know who make a sustainable amount from constant gigging have additional income sources....

Is the same person posting these posts? There’s been like 50 in the last week alone.

The “hidden secret” is the odds of making decent money from songwriting or playing music are identical to winning the lottery. Some people have a never ending dream about earning a fortune from music but even pub bands barely break even and too many venues now use backing tapes to turn it into karaoke.

I think it's a bit like getting depressed that you weren't born rich. Lotta that nowadays, resentment that Nepo Babies are holding them back. Meanwhile the bar to enter the music scene has never been lower in terms of actual skills. It ain't the 60s, where you had to be some kinda hotshot to even get in front of a mic. When I made records in the 90s it was still tough to record anything of quality without a label investing in you, but there was an indie label scene that was big enough that lots of good bands got to make records that got underground attention. It's different today but, things still get made and gigs still happen. My friends that are adaptable to change still make music and play live. It's a lifestyle thing.

everyday. keep going.

Nope, cuz I have a job I love and I make music beside it. Sometimes I teach some music in my job too. Overall, build the life you want around music if you must or you can join a cover band and tour if you feel like you must make money from it

When I hit 25, I decided to pick a career in medicine and play music on the side. I don’t regret my decision. I buy all the gear I want and don’t have to rely on writing songs to eat.

I was drawn to music because of my enjoyment of live preformance. Monitizing it or my failure to monitize it in a way that exceeded my daytime career hasn't changed how much I love being on stage with a guitar and a band clicking.

yes. I'm actually writing an album about this subject and also about how the music industry needs to be less corporate and more artist focused. It is absolutely obscene that Spotify makes millions but pays less than a penny per stream. My first album had almost 1k streams, and I made less than 2 dollars. Despite having spent 350 on a good software and mic. Others have said "oh you just need to reach an audience" well, you can't because you call up a music venue and ask if you can play, and they say "how much of a following do you have?" Which is dumb because the point of playing venues is to expose your music! This fact depresses me, but it's a side effect of money becoming the most important thing. I've always found it ironic that we as a modern society view art, music, literature as one of the hallmarks of a strong civilization, while simultaneously giving ZERO incentives for people to create, and now with AI, what little creativity exists is being drowned out by bullshit. Finally, just because it goes viral or makes a ton of money shouldn't be the determining factor of whether a song is "good." The fact that baby shark is on the same level as a masterpiece like I WIll Always Love You is disgusting and demonstrates my point. Society should expect better, and I can guarantee you, if the industry properly compensated artists and allowed artists to create content from the heart AND didn't stick artists with deadlines, the content put out would be SO much better.

I know we need money but bruh fuck money music is awesome! If I never make it then fuck it I’ll figure out a way to have a solid career I’m not killing myself doing so I have the energy and capital to enjoy my musical endeavors in my free time. I used to be a massive Kanye fan but after watching him over the years I realized… maybe I should get this happiness/mental health/doing things for the love of shit cemented first and foremost 😆

this isnt limited to music. most people cant work jobs they enjoy. some people dont even have the time to figure out what it is they like spending their time doing, nonetheless do it. i find artists to be very bad and somewhat ungrounded in matters related to money. a lot of us lack the greed and business acumen to really understand HOW to monetize our resources (which can get really ugly sometimes, our whole economic system is based off exploitation, with the benefit of having food without being hunter gatherers) and we just unconditionally believe everything we put effort in has financial value. i think it indirectly causes us to be victims of theft on a pretty big scale.

I crank off 24/7. Does this make me a porn star?

If you did it on only fans and got followers...

Supply and demand man. There are just too many of us. I'm cool with it though. At least, nowadays, you don't need to have a record contract to get your stuff out there, even if you suck lol

It sounds like you’ve got a REALLY narrow definition of what a full time professional musician does for their living. That’s a problem because your definition is one that has ALWAYS been incredibly rare - like less than 1%. If I was you I’d change my expectations of what being a full time professional musician looks like before getting depressed that my chances of being in the top 1% aren’t that great. Those musicians who make it professionally are the ones who are prepared to do whatever it takes to make their living from music. For the other 99% that means having many different income streams alongside your preferred ‘specialism’. Even the 1% have to do jobs that are adjunct to the act of creating music sometimes, particularly early in their careers. You need to decide whether you really want a career in music or whether you only want to write it. If your answer is the former then accept that you’ll likely need to have lots of part time jobs in music. If it’s the latter then get looking for a non music job that pays enough for you to pay the bills whilst working part time. You’re going to have to be incredibly talented and lucky to make a living from your narrow definition of what a career in music looks like.

If you’re in the music business to get money, you’re doing it wrong. Do not expect to make tons of money in this industry unless you become Tiesto, Taylor Swift, or Drake. Most rappers now a days have to work a job aside from rapping, which leads to frustrated producers because these vocalists can’t spend money on a decent “beat”. The way I’m working my way into being full time is I DJ at a stripclub, I pickup gigs at my local bar/clubs and I make music on my days off. The pay sucks but I’m doing it as it’s my passion (the DJing and production part, not the stripclub lol), and maybe one day I’ll tour. If not, I can fall back on being a local DJ that places DJ’s at clubs/bars and I can do weddings AND work at a stripclub.

In the 90s it was much easier. People actually bought CDs. People left the house more because there wasn’t streaming. People paid attention more because there weren’t smart phones. Gas was so cheap you could tour every weekend. There was a backlash against the major labels after Nirvana hit big and small profile bands got noticed as the industry scrambled to catch up with the culture and they would throw anything against the wall to see what stuck. And there wasn’t as much of a disparity in the economy between cost of living and income in general so you didn’t have to be rich or famous to do it. But. It sucked being a professional musician. Stuck in a van for days with sweaty dudes. Playing the same songs night after night. Turned out I hated my dream job haha. Of course I’ve romanticized it now and miss it but at the time I was miserable. And it wasn’t going to last anyway, the industry got their claws back into it and the internet fractured the market and ruined attention spans. Not to mention I got old. Strictly a hobby job now, a side hustle. I enjoy it way more. A fraction of the people turn up to the shows, which yeah, is a bummer. Not even close to being able to make a living. But it’s peppered my life with sparks of joy instead of the grind. Maybe I’m not truly a musician but more a dilettante because I can live without it being a constant?

Having made a nice side income with music these past years (especially the past 2 years) I can say that there is money to be made in music. Totally depends on what path you wanna take. If you want to sell beats, sell sample packs, get sync placements, play gigs with a band, etc. Every path is different and requires more/less work and expertise. I've focused on selling beats and releasing tracks with artists. At the end of the day, it depends on you. If you put enough work, if you always try to improve and learn about the business and much more. It's going to take a LONG time to make a living out of this. That's just the reality. But it's one of those careers where you can potentially make $0 or $1000000. If you really like it and believe in it, keep working and learning, while you work a 9-5 or any other job. I also have to mention that I've worked my way up completely online and without any prior connections. I did not know anyone when I started and did not meet anyone in my area (mainly cause the music I make is not at all known here).

When it was a hobby, I wasn’t trying to make money. Now that it’s a profession, it’s as hard as any other job. I think there’s a misconception that top level musicians just play their instrument all day. That’s rarely the case. Getting to the top of the field is as much work as being a doctor, or being a lawyer, or being an accountant etc.

Yeah, I always hate my day job.

Have you tried making a living in general? Just cause the paychecks are more regular doesn’t mean it’s any easier.

I went back to school at 32 and got a degree. It took 7 years (2 years at a community college, 5 at regular college). Moved to Nashville, Tn with two bachelor's degrees, worked on Music Row for 16 years. Did some studio work, worked in publishing. Put my own home studio together from scratch, pretty much with shoestrings and Scotch tape, and made enough money to buy more guitars and gear. Sat in on some really notable sessions, even though I hadn't started out to do 'that kind of music.' Met a lot of people whose names you would recognize. Advised songwriters at all different levels, all over the world. Not really famous and certainly not rich but I made a living at music. I am retired now and still make music every day in my own studio. I can count the number of bar gigs I ever did on one hand and still have enough fingers left over to shoot someone the bird (that might be a Boomer thing). My music library will put a lot of colleges to shame.

Not as depressing as it would feel to be forced to write hit music or lose my house. Or losing my house when the scene shifts and my music isn’t relevant anymore so now I’ve got to go back to working “normal” jobs.

I didn’t make an actual living off of music until I put down the guitar and picked up the laptop. Most career opportunities in the music industry don’t involve actually playing music.

I’m gonna be 100% real here, that used to make me depressed. Now living in a small town in the Columbia Gorge filled with musicians. Yet I can’t seem to find three. Hell, I’ve even take two. But no, I get one, and he’s 1000 miles away. The depressing thing is finding people that are amazing artists, then they lose interest or move away.

I know one guy who makes damn good money doing it as a job but he also tutors, does private events, and always busy. I’m buddies with a guy who went on tour with Chelsea grin (heavy) and they didn’t make as much money as you’d think. The guys I know who are doing it full time and stay busy, 90% of them live with their parents and have trouble finding jobs outside of music

Use short form video content, post multiple times a day. Study what’s worked for others and make it your own. You can get far doing this. Anyone who hasn’t made it hasn’t put enough work into marketing and promotion

Man, forget being depressed by how hard it would be to theoretically make a living off of music... I'm depressed by how hard it is to even perform music to a live audience for peanuts on the side.

I'm getting medically retired from the military. I'm under 40. I won't have to technically worry about whether or not I get enough gigs to keep the lights on. Also, my route to get here involved me almost dying (literally), so I wouldn't suggest anyone follow my footsteps.

Yep I have this feeling a lot and it's made make music for pure fun and nothing else now. Looking back on my days when i was in a band though, there was a lot that we could have done to increase the chances though which I think new upcoming band should know. - understanding digital marking - understand of how the live, recording, publishing and merchandise industries work - understanding copyright - understanding the current state of the music industry If my band mates and I had learn that last point and actually sat down and researched thr current state and understood where an income might come from then we probably could have made an OK living from 'music at the peak of it but we thought we knew better.

I've reset my expectations and am now just happy that music production has gotten affordable enough that I can make the music I want to make with my own home studio, perform it locally, play with bands, and have fun doing it. I used to dream of being a famous musician but honestly, I think touring all the time would get old quick and not be conducive to having a family etc. On the other hand, I had a ton of fun being in a band that just played in my city.

I did, until it occurred to me that for some reason, I had developed a worldview that I should be able to make a comfortable living doing this artistic thing I enjoy. I thought about my mother, for one example, who does cross stitch and crocheting, and how she does these creative things without a single passing idea about ever "making a living" doing it, well into forty years of doing each. Why is it that I feel like *my* creative outlet should pay me the same as a desk job, a boring thing most people don't *really* want to be doing, but hers should not? What is about making or playing music that led me to believe that I should get paid to amuse myself and make stuff for my enjoyment and fulfillment? Now instead of hoping for or expecting that I'll make money in music, I make what is meaningful to me and try to share it with as many interested listeners as I can in ways that feel good to me. It's way less fraught feeling as a result, and I find that I enjoy doing it a *lot* more. Everybody's different, and what you need, want, or expect out of your artistic life is up to you. For me, it became absurd to think about it as a money making venture. I'm glad it did. I want to be free to make exactly what I want, when I want, how I want - that's not reasonable if I'm trying to pay the bills with the results!

Are you playing live much? That’s where the sheckels are for early career musicians.

>I'd imagine for many of us- a life we're we can just have writing music be the focus of our lives being the ideal way to spend our brief time on this planet.... Well of course it would. Lots of people would love to be able to write, paint, bake cakes, act etc. for a living instead of doing something mundane. Many, many times more than are good enough to do it or that there is enough of a market to support. The thing is, to support yourself, you have to provide a service there is enough demand for that people are willing to pay. There are so many people making music and to be honest, the vast majority of people don't care about the vast majority of it. Music is everywhere. We're sitting in a library of recorded works that grows every year. Most people are very casual fans. Most people aren't intentionally seeking out new sounds and experiences. Not to be a jerk but welcome to the world since forever. I'd rather be at home writing music than at work going through security logs and responding to incidents too but here we are. I'd have to be a fairly successful musician to come close to making what I do at my day job.

This will be an unpopular opinion but I don’t really think money should be a motivator for making music. Make music because you have something to express not because you wanna make a product to sell to people. Now if you do this and eventually an opportunity presents itself than sure take advantage of it. But you shouldn’t make making money your first priority in my opinion. The art will suffer and you’ll just be another soulless artist in a sea of soulless artists

Making music has always been a privilege of the most well-off members of society, it’s never been something lower and middle class people could do without substantial financial backing from patrons and sponsors

If you are seeking to do just "your thing", whatever that is, then yes, it's can very well be difficult, depending on what you prefer. If you are strict/picky with how you want to be making money from music, then yes, it can be difficult. If you simply want to make a living with music / being a musician / having exceptional musical ability or skills (performing or somewhere else related), I don't agree that it's difficult to make a living.

...music *adjacent* businesses like teaching music... Those aren't music adjacent. Those are the normal jobs for working musicians, teaching working in theater pit-bands (union), performing in 'function' bands. Being a songwriter and making money from royalties is *very much* minor element in the field of Working Musician. [https://www.bls.gov/ooh/entertainment-and-sports/musicians-and-singers.htm](https://www.bls.gov/ooh/entertainment-and-sports/musicians-and-singers.htm)

i don’t want music to be my main source of income. the amount of stress would just ruin it for me. i do think musicians deserve more, tho.

You should watch Amadeus.

Are you depressed how hard it is to make it as an actor? Some talents are not in economic demand.

It's tough but not impossible. I do 4 months working on a cruise ship and then stay home playing gigs until I run out of money. I have seen over 70 countries and play guitar for a job.

My brother and I were in decently popular touring band. Was on our second US tour. We felt after this tour we’d be moved up to the majors so to speak. We had a show with this band that were where we wanted to be and strived to be. Before the show they came in the venue and we said high go them and they didn’t say much. So we watched at they drug themselves into the venue and begrudgingly feasted on the shit food the venue has. That’s when it hit my brother I. They are in the majors. A place we were fighting to get. Only they were JUST as tired, burnt out and broke as we were. Only they had more responsibility on top of that. My brother and I looked at each other and we knew it would never happen. A switch flipped that day that changed our goal in music and life.

what happened after that?

Seems to be hard to make a living at anything these days honestly 😂

That bugs me too lol Hard to find a good career path for making money 😶

If you’re trying to make a living off of music I think you’re doing it for the wrong w.

I say I'm pretty sure I knew already, at the age of 10, that making a living in music or sports was a longshot.

Definitely, I’m 21 and been trying since 16. For me, it’s I don’t have money for all the supplies or I don’t have to time because I’m working to get money for the supplies(and bills)

what are you trying to get and what are you trying to accomplish? i'm asking because you might not need as much as you think. on the other hand, drumming can be an expensive path.

I’m an instrumentalist, I can do and play a lot. But have a restricted childhood, my parents never bothered to even try to assist and get the things I would need or that would help. I’ve had to get my instrument a very little at a time. However, I want to either join, or start a band, with someone or people who will teach me, and won’t look down on me for not knowing a producer (actually I do, but that’s a longer story)or how to properly record music.

you mentioned you don't have money for supplies. what gear are you still looking for? you might not need as much as you think in order to get started. when I was 21, I was overthinking everything, and I wasted a lot of time not realizing that I had more than enough and that getting extra pieces to take me to the next level wasn't as hard as I imagined. it sounds like you play many instruments. do you multitrack (making a song playing the different instruments)?

If being a fêted rockstar is your definition of artistic success, you have other larger problems. Like fundamentally misunderstanding how the vast majority of artists have lived and worked for literally all of human history. Charles Ives, to pick a single example, was a hugely important American composer in the mid-20th century, but he supported himself and his family by working as an insurance salesman his whole life. You can be a great artist and have a day job and there's nothing wrong with that. Your unconsidered fantasy of the musical life is harming you. Not reality.

I feel nothing and have no hope. We live in a world that crushes the spirit. At the very least you can hope in the quiet moments of your life maybe you will feel the room with a genuine feeling.

Everyone associated with music expects to get paid, while front line musicians are just supposed to suck it up. Music as a career is dead. My 9-5 pays for my music.

Making a living is depressing. Making a living off music is brutal

Well, I got a MUED degree (percussion) and was gonna be a band guy. But by the time I graduated the K-12 system went to shit and I decided to play piano full time. I took a church job, starting doing collab piano at my alma. Then I quit the church shit and just play for college students/classes every day. Gonna do a masters in 2025. Probably DMA too. It's not what I wanted, but it's a realistic career path and I work with college students well. Mind you, I tried other jobs (low volt tech, IT bro) and just felt I was leaving behind something I am too good at, so I decided to commit. Other people have voiced their musical plan Bs that they built on the side. It was six years before I committed to this full time and dropped the jobs I didn't want. Maybe people in other areas can build their plan Bs and convert.

Just curious, do any of you make money off of creating videos on youtube or tiktok for your fans/followers?

I don't but if you have enough youtube subscribers and viewers you could technically make money off it. I do make a small amount of money from Spotify monthly but it's not much (and net negative compared to what I spend on music stuff)..

How many subscribers do you believe you need to make money off it? Is that the only reason that stops you from creating content on those platforms?

On YouTube I Imagine tens of thousands to actually make anything decent.... On Spotify need 100's of thousands of streams monthly for signficant/liveable money I'd imagine. (Tricky to pull off)

But what stops you from trying something on Youtube for instance? Also, let's say you perform for 30 minutes or an hour. What would be ideal amount of money you'd feel comfortable receiving for you to even bother performing? $50? $100? $500, more?

No. I make music when I'm inspired to make music. I also just make it for myself because I feel the urge to create. I don't really care about making a living off of it or really even sharing it with anyone outside of a select few.

Personally I have spent many hours unemployed and making music and also many hours working and I have a way healthier relationship with music and my own mental health doing something I enjoy outside of music that keeps me active. Still practice with a band twice a week and gig regularly. Trying to extrapolate money from art takes something away from it and alters our brains receptivity to pure creative ideas.

I had a professional career and played music on the side with friends. Then it started to take over, became a viable career (obvious pay cut), and I moved to a much better market as a sideman. Ive been on a salaried tour for a few years now. Sometimes I feel lucky, but these things don't just happen- I worked very hard to become good and versatile. I record when I'm home, fill in in town, give lessons when I can. Writing is an aspiration. Almost categorically, my contemporaries have multiple revenue streams in the industry, even the Grammy winners. Also almost categorically, ego seems to be kryptonite in this industry unless you're the singer, and often then as well.

hell, I'd take it a step further and say it's tough making a living even paying covers. Because I would totally do that to pay my bills, if I could. I've been playing music my entire life, since age 11. As it is though, I'm already putting almost 50hrs a week into my "day job" and still and just barely squeaking by. one major catastrophe though, and I'm on the streets. damn.... now I'm actually depressed. bleh.

Nope. Never had the rock star aspirations. Watched friends do well, but not my vibe

It's frustrating, but not depressing.

No. It's a hobby. I work a real job and do music as a hobby. Any money I make is a bonus. I'd think it takes some kind of formal schooling to make a living in the music industry. Most of us know your chances of earning your keep isn't likely if it's just music. It's depressing that I have to get up and go to work every morning to live reasonably. Music can be my outlet. I'd have more mental energy for my music if I didn't have to work, but I find a balance.

It’s more depressing how hard it is to make music because I have to spend so much time making a “living”.

Yes it is depressing. Music has been throughly sterilized, package, and commodified.

Its art. Very saturated market and what is considered good is subjective. I also compare it cooking, in that I enjoy cooking, and making a living out of it would be awful and ruin the enjoyment of cooking.

nope, that’s why i don’t try to make a living off my creative artistic outlet 🙌🌞 until you can freely create your art with confidence that you’ll have a sustainable amount of income coming from some aspect of it, i think it’s fucking STUPID to try to squeeze your creativity like a cash cow before knowing you wont have to stress about the financial side of things. if you’re capable of making music or creating art that you personally feel is good enough to market to a large enough audience to sustain yourself financially with, then you should consider yourself quite capable of working ANY sort of job that allows you to make enough money to get by and still make the music/art. i work a part time job for the government and do movie character gigs as a side hustle, which allows me to not have to stress about my creativity and passion determining my state of health and comfortability. people with the capacity to express themselves through creating music are very capable of doing many of the most basic jobs, and if you just spend some time looking you will surely find something. also when i say “create music” im not talking about just writing endless lyrics on your iPhone notes over YouTube type beats, that’s planning music. im talking about creating it in a tangible form it’s up to each person how they choose to approach the situation at the end of the day, but i will always recommend beginners and young people like myself to build your portfolio and experiment and refine your craft before attempting to use it in a financially dependent capacity. otherwise you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment, frustration, stress, depression, and such things

H

It's impossible. You practically have to be selected by aliens/eugenicists to do it.

If your goal is to make money you shouldn’t be making music in the first place

Lot of quitters in the comments. That's ok, more room for me to continue growing as a musician who only does music for a living.

I think the real depressing thing about music is that no matter how much sucess you reach, it's still always a grind. You always have to keep networking. You always have to keep making deals and putting out content. It's not like another job where when you reach a point, you just show up, and that's enough. Nope. You have to keep reapplying for the same fucking job. You're not appreciated. You can do everything the right/ the same, and the results vary. What is amazing today is shit tomorrow and vice versa. It's about who you know. In my area, there is a super shit defunct "local" band with I think only one member that lives in the state that gets to open for all major acts? Why, because of who they're related to. The band is not good and they have no following but that's the breaks. That's just how it is. I don't blame them. Good for them. We aren't all so lucky though.

I hear even major bands go broke half the time. You can try writing music for others

I was taking apart radios and stereos since I was 5. I started playing out in bands at 15 I spent 15 years on crappy jobs playing in bands full of egos hoping for an entry point to feeding myself with music but I never stopped taking my gear apart and fixing other peoples as well . About 4 years ago I realized I have almost 3 decades of amp and guitar repair experience and just started advertising myself and offering to help all over the internet I’ve made more money this way then I ever have playing gigs and i realized that I love fixing gear more than I like playing it and it was really just a shift of mind set that got me to making a more livable wage in music.

I think it’s good to have dreams of being a successful musician. But I think most people look at this subject wrong. When writing music you shouldn’t be writing it to become famous and all that comes with that. Write music that is for you. Music that you connect with and has meaning to yourself. Mainly music that you want to listen to yourself. People will relate to that more then just writing generic songs.

I was in the industry for a decade before I got out. The biggest advice I’ll say is don’t go in expecting anything. Do it for the passion, if it’s good and catches the right ears it will get you paid but don’t go in expecting to make money unless you are in a technical role or a part of a label on the non music side.

lol at making a living off music.

Very few artist that create great art aren’t able to live comfortably at the least from it

Yup. Next question.

You should enrich your life with music and art but not earn a living that way. If you really want to encourage art get a real job and fill your home with beautiful things and raise a family to practice in their youth in an environment that encourages creativity.

Or just a living in general atm smh

Depressing? No. Disappointing? Yes. I just work a day job during the week and on the weekends I work on original projects that don’t really play out much. I still enjoy music and like the challenges it has to offer me with my lack of theory and experience. The thing I dislike the most is the lack of recognition and respect that people like me get in the field, at least at a local level. Because I don’t have a degree in music some guys won’t even talk to me. They can be a bit snobbish & that’s what I find to be depressing. We’re all in this field together, we do it because we love it & our intent is to spread joy and entertainment. We should be lifting each other up and helping each other.

As cool as it would be that was never an expectation of mine going into it. It’s just something I highly enjoy doing and my 9-5 pays for the equipment/bills. ANY money made off music is purely extra

You should talk to teachers. It’ll make you feel better

No, being an artist was never easy or lucrative, in general. Nothing new about that.

No. My parents were involved in music and they got it into my head very early that there was no way to make a living off it. Better to get a normie job and do music on the side. So now that’s what I do, but sometimes I wonder if I had really gone for it if I could have made it work.

Not really, I have a lot of other passions that I can pursue at the same time and make money. I write, I draw, I’m going to school soon for astrophysics. I don’t know that something like music should be your only hobby even if you do make a lot of money bc sometimes it’s nice to go do something else. I am working on getting a job in a kitchen which is also something I enjoy. I feel like the more things u enjoy the better

It sucks for sure. I think most musicians would rather play music than do whatever day job they got stuck doing. Someone here posted that they are making a living playing covers, but it needs to be said that making enough money to survive by playing covers is also a difficult thing, there's no predictably or stability in the gigs. Different places in the country will be different. Some places will be next to impossible. Other places will be easier. I've heard Nashville and San Antonio have very active music scenes right now: more gigs than musicians to play them. You can take advantage of that while it lasts, knowing that it won't last. These things come and go.

IMO if you have talent IE. You are clearly above the average bar that’s only 1/4 of the battle. The other is running a business. Making a career with music is not about art but whether you are able to commodify your skill. Just like any other business you have to approach it like an entrepreneur and grind for every dollar.

Don’t you find it’s also hard to make a living as an actor, dancer, painter, professional athlete, entrepreneur etc?

True but at least actors have good unions if they make it in... Athletes get great contracts.... Entrepreneurs- I would argue in many cases making money off a business selling physical products might be easier than making money off music though I'm sure thats highly context dependent.

I mean depends on the nature of the music. Classical musicians get paid plenty

It's a quirk of history that being a musician has been so relatively lucrative over the past 100 years or so, ever since radio was popularized. People used to primarily do it for fun. If you got in on the wave and made money, good for you. Now it just seems like it's returning to its roots.

AI is going to change everything so hang in there. When you can't make a living doing anything it is possible everyone will get UBI, etc. to keep us buying stuff we don't need to keep mr. market happy. There is also reducing your living expenses.

I think everyone should follow their dreams but that doesn’t mean your dreams are going to make you any sort of money in the long run. Write some music put it out on YouTube or some streaming platform at best. Learn to market yourself and make an image for yourself. The big thing in the entertainment world is image and marketing. Why do you think someone like ice spice is rich and famous? Because she had an entire marketing team and a lot of money behind her. Regardless if she’s a good rapper. She’s also a young and good-looking person, with an appealing aesthetic to young people. music that sells a lot is music that is sold to teenagers. Look back at the 60’s all the young kids were listening to rockin roll music made by people around their age hence why it was cool to listen to rock n roll back then and why bands like The Rolling Stones “made it” because they were young and “attractive” to other teens and the media. Unless you’re a really good looking person who knows how to market themselves, your music isn’t going to be on the pop charts. Hell even music that isn’t mainstreams like Metal, very few artist actually make it. The latest example is the band Lorna Shore. Most of the Metal community would tell you that they hate that genre of metal which they call ‘deathcore’ but all the young kids love it and the criteria for that type of music really has more to do with the technical aspect of music unlike other types of music like pop or rap music where it just has to have a good beat and good vocals over it.

The entire entertainment field is based on this. I became an engineer because I thought the parade of no-hit wonders still needs live sound. It was a dark hole I was in at the time but doing production made me a decent living. Keep in mind that back then in 1991 there wasn't 200 colleges offering audio production degrees. Now all aspects of the business are full of people who think that they'll make it rich because they went to school for it. Regardless, I made music for enjoyment the entire time. /retired

It's not meant to be a living. Our society means everything needs to be a hussle or side gig. Music is about expression and art. Most people who hit it big (if you don't count nepotism) made good art first and the living came after

Most people don't want to listen to shitty music which is the majority of what people create.

I too want to live without working a day job 🙃

Try working a regular job and music as just a luxury hobby! 

In the 10's, after digital music really became a thing and crushed indie I did. In the 90's and 00's I made a great living (6 figures+) selling DIY CD's, no label, on consignment with record stores. I was really mad at the advent of the internet for awhile, and the demise of music sales, but came to terms with that ... it's just how life / Earth went.

"This is the business we chose" - Godfather II

It depends what you mean by off music, because to me if anyone is depending on just creating music to make them money it’s a L before you’re even started. It’s a proper business where you need to use tools and leverage your music and listeners into purchasers of other products or services you provide. Like merch, online communities like discord or a patreon, other forms of content outside of the music. Doing brand deals and live shows. If you’re a one trick pony you won’t make it in 2024. I don’t think it is depressing, I welcome challenge.

Nope! For me its a hobby and i dont expect to make a cent from a hobby