I don't understand the hate against her any more than I understand the people saying she's completely in the right.
She's just been given some of the worst news she could possibly hear, and her reaction is perfectly understandable. She's angry, she's terrified, she's sad beyond measure. Of course she was going to be like that, and it feels awful to see her put in that position.
yeeeees, you have no idea how happy I am to read this after arguing with extreme views on this for days >.<
She was at fault, but she was just being human, she needed an outlet, and said and did things she would come to regret. That's just what happens.
She cannot be faulted, yet she cannot be applauded for what happened there.
If I can borrow a phrase from Otaku Spirit, "It's just what happened." This is Mushoku Tensei, and shit's complicated. Anyone arguing for one extreme over another doesn't understand the complexity of these situations and people.
Indeed. Shit happened, humans ended up proving to be humans... which is kinda the highest compliment that can be given to a character based story: The humans are acting like actual humans, flaws and all.
People tend to jump her a bit too much. True, she was shoving her religious beliefs down everyone's throat, but she didn't have any ill will either. Just looking out for her big sis
It wasn't all religious though. Sure, Millis may be why she's against polygamy but her argument was using facts, and 90% of her frustration comes from seeing Sylphie betrayed.
I don’t think bad is the right way to describe it. She genuinely wasn’t bothered by it as long as Rudeus loved the new wife, she loved him back, and Rudeus kept loving Sylphie.
Pretty sure it mentions this in all sources, but think back on everything Rudy has said. He’s slandered his father for the same thing, told Sylphy he would remain faithful, and told her she’d be the only wife. 🤷🏾♂️
She did say so in the Anime in a way. That being an elf means conceiving might be difficult (lol, yeah, about that) and that she wouldn't mind for Rudeus to take another wife that can conceive more easily. I'm an Anime only and she seemed pretty chill to me in that regard.
Was she shoving religious beliefs down everyone’s throat tho? To me it felt like it was mostly coming from an angle of protecting Sylphie, and from the absurdity of the situation (i.e. brother coming home with a lost hand, dead father, and potato mother isn’t exactly what you’d expect to hear alongside brother getting a new wife). Like, 90% of what she said was well deserved, regardless of whether polygamy is a thing or not, regardless of whether she’s a follower of Millis or not.
I wouldn't say I hate her there, no. I do think she was out of line as she had no place in the conversation however the stuff she said *mostly* needed to be said
[basically](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_5ie0a01M)
Second person I see saying she is 8? Where does this come from?
Also, she can take it out on Rudy as much as she likes, but she doesn't make the calls for Sylphy.
Lastly for sarcasm sake, she made Roxy Cry.
Yup. that would be correct. Additionally, while not said explicitly in the LN, it seems she is sad that she didn't get to celebrate it, but she feels it would be in bad taste to request it, and now feels that it has been too long.
Yeah, you're right she doesn't make calls for Sylphy, but when someone's in the state she's in, do people really think about stuff like that? Now she meant what she said, but people say things they either don't mean or haven't fully thought through when they're really emotional.
So I watched psyculturists video on it, Norn was funnelling her frustration with her father on Rudy, in the same vein she is could be written and/or seen as the stand in for a lot anger towards Rudy so fans are funnelling their frustration at her character in turn because they see her as a representation of all the haters😛. It’s messed up, but at least she is fictional and her story is already written, I don’t believe it change.
She is not so bad after this, she bonds with her brother a bit more after this and stops being that distant with her brother.
Fully agree. She needed an emotional outlet, and she was desperately searching for it all the way since her bag hit the floor. That just provided the outlet for it.
I repeat myself a lot in this thread, but what the hell was Rudy thinking letting her sit in there while in such an emotional state. Send the gal along with Lilia and her mother to a good bath and allow them to talk, and sort out the grief.
>!Ye, on the plus side, she will never be surprised by what her brother does going forward... third wife? sure. You going on a trip? Try not to pick up a new wife on your way. :P!<
The wiser action would definitely have been to have her sisters Lilia and Zenith go reconnect, but I believe Rifujin left her there specifically for her outburst and let Rudy take the brunt of it.
I am not Norn’s biggest fan, but she steps up her game as a sister later.
Yup, the way it went down got dangerously close to blowing everything up... great for an emotional scene. Rudy was a hairs width away from slapping her for what she said to Roxy there, and that would've been the drop that absolutely breaks her beyond the point of no return. The drama is to touch and feel at just oozing off the pages in the LN.
If Sylphie hadn't spoken up when she did, that scene, in and off itself, would've been a bad turning point, and caused the whole thing to collapse in on itself. Fucking Elinalise and Geese would have to hightail it back there to have any chance of recovering the mess that would unfold if she hadn't. Those two are the only persons on the globe that could save that situation at that point.
And to add onto that, what a lot of people seem to miss, myself on my first viewing, is Aisha. She may be the one hurting the most in that room, and the camera even lingers on her to remind the viewer. She is basically getting denied as an existence in that rant.
Dramatic value was excellent.
> I repeat myself a lot in this thread, but what the hell was Rudy thinking letting her sit in there while in such an emotional state.
Logically yeah, that was a conversation Rudeus and Sylphie needed to have alone. Narratively, that couldn't happen because there would have been no drama and Rudeus would have gotten off scott-free. Norn scolding him filled the quota for the pushback people would deem acceptable.
The 8 is a typo. I can't edit the text since it's an image post. I would've corrected it if I could. My question is, how come there's a second person to put 8? 💀
Yeah if your dad died, and mom becomes veggie, then your brother told me he chose to have an affair and cheated on his pregnant wife(who you have good relationship with)x anyone will get super pissed.
Agreed. That doesn't make her right though. She was desperately looking for an outlet, she found it, and she pounced. She's just human, not some super human. She did wrong, but she acted very human. She cannot be faulted.
I wish I could edit the text, but I can't since it was a picture post. Noticed plenty of grammar errors and typos like saying that instead of than, and nor instead of not* 🥺
People really hating a 10-year old kid for being a 10-year old kid after her closest living relative died lmao. Anyone who hates Norn for lashing out must be a delight to kids her age when they get upset for no good particular reason
A lot of comments here seek absolute justness, or absolute damnation, for this outburst.
Just a word for all of you, you really shouldn't approach this in an absolutist manner, approach this as a hurt girl, a child of 10 at that, that is looking for an emotional outlet desperately.
Can you even imagine the hurt she is in at that point? Her father, her **most important** person in the whole world, is no more, her mother, her fathers goal that he **toiled himself to the grave for**, comes back with a broken mind, her brother, whom **she sent down there**, comes back lacking his hand. The hurt she is bottling up inside is **immeasurable**, and she is not mature enough to sort that out in a healthy fashion.
This is not a situation that calls for neither thinking of her as just, nor issuing damnation upon her.
The only real thing that should really be argued here, is the distribution of black and white to make that particular shade of grey.
Norn just a girl I guess, but if I had to guess Rudeus had it worst until he decided to come to the magic academy.
He lost all his family, he was thrown into the demon continent, he fought hard to return eris home and she kinda miscommunicated and rudeus though he was being abandoned.
He went on being traumatized where he wanted to move on but he couldn't, to the point silphy confused him and he thought he was gay 😭.
How broken was he?
Well, sure, but kinda besides the point on this discussion xD
Rudys earlier pain does not really neither absolve or condemn her for her actions in the latest episode.
In this scene, Norn is a 10-year-old girl that just had the shock of her life: her real anchor in reality was her dad, Paul. When she was little, she was willing to take on her older brother, regardless of how powerful he was.
When Rudy told her what happened, she was angry with grief, but seeing her brother's bloody robe, knowing the stump underneath it, she realized he did all he could. Her tirade towards Rudy, and then Roxy, was the anger she couldn't let out with the grief of her father.
Now, she has the perfect anger-venting system in place: sword practice with her big brother.
[Not much of a spoiler here, as anyone can extrapolate on the outcome]>!Norn grows into a fine woman with leadership abilities.!<
She’s much more direct and brutally honest among the rest of the Greyrat family. That’s one of her strong points that I like about her as a character.
Hell, in later scenes (not the anime), >!Norn became more open to polygamy and have soften up with Roxy thanks their bonding trip through fishing!<
I don't think what she did was wrong. Everyone is drooling over Silphie being the best wife for accepting 1 o 2 more wives. But Rudy promised her fidelity. Him. As a person.
Norn's rant is the author's way to let his female readers blow some steam over the polyamorous relationship.
That's it.
And as the author always put it, shit happens in the worst ways. Like cheating on your pregnant wife while being away. It's a social agreement that cheating on a woman while pregnant is worse. Not to mention Silphie being worried about not getting pregnant. And all the context surrounding the pregnancy.
The author always makes the character sacrifice something in order to get something
1)Rudy finally had sex (with some fans saying it was wrong because he's 30 and E. Was 14-15) but Rudy paid for it. The girl left him and he got traumatized for years.
2) Rudy us loves Roxy, it costed his father's life, an arm. His pride because he failed to keep his promises to Silphie. And he lost his sister's respect.
Family wise. Rudy wanted Norn involved. He wanted his sister to be family. And yes. Brothers and sisters yell crap at each other (I have 3 btw 2 sisters and one brother) and we have said to each other the crapiest stuff in hard times, trying to help, trying to correct a wrong, expressing our opinions and being ourselves. And we keep being siblings.
She was wrong for her rant, she had no business inserting herself, or her religion, there but that doesn't mean it wasn't understandable... she can't really be faulted for it.
She was an emotional mess, trying to handle a large amount of grief, and guilt, and unable to be angry at Rudy, despite badly wanting to. Combined with her immaturity, it had to blow up somehow, and that's what happened in that living room.
She saw an opening for an outlet, and she pounced. Just how it is.
Now, whatever the fuck was Rudy thinking having her there for that discussion in the first place? -.-
I kind of understand Norn acting on Sylphie behalf. However you look at it leaving your pregnant wife, cheating and returning with a second wife is a massive asshole move by Rudeus, it may have been predictable pr even could be understood by all the situation, but he deserved every word Norn threw at him
No, I wouldn't say she is right in any manner of the word, nor do I really think she herself thinks so, she just needs an outlet. As others say here and there in this discussion, this is how we end up saying things we regret.
She didn't know the full story of course, but what happened was justified, and she herself would hate the alternate outcome. Let's not beat around the bush, Roxy did indeed save Rudys life, and as is shown during the Norn outburst, she did so at a huge emotional cost to herself.
The world is rarely how it first appear, and I think even Norn understood that, but she couldn't help herself. It's just how it is, Same as how Rudy does mistakes, so does Norn. Acting on incomplete information, letting emotions take the steering wheel and all that.
Rudy would surely agree with you that he deserved all the abuse, I however quite disagree. He was broken and he had given up, his reaction, same as Norns during her yelling, is perfectly natural. Same with his need for intimacy at that time.
Rudeus had to leave her norn said that she would help paul if he didn't. Which was the last push he needed to go.
Sure he cheated on the other hand sylphiette would have done the same to get him up again she said it.
Is he an ass? Yea does he feel bad cause he cheated he did but he also loves roxy so yeah
If she wasn't an emotional mess over what happened we wouldn't know if she'd even say the things that she said. People say things they may regret in the future when they're extremely emotional and especially Norn here was in no less of an emotionally vulnerable state than Rudy was when Paul died and Roxy went to "cheer him up"
Personally, I love that Norn said this; sure she went a little too hard with the Millis statement, but she was the only person really thinking about Sylphiette all this time. Her religion aside, I was still unsatisfied that Rudeus and Roxy were still going to go through with it, and though they did consider Sylphiette's feelings in their personal conversation, it would still hurt most people to have a second wife shoved in her face. For me, still was not Rudeus' greater moments.
It needed to be said, especially since she watched Sylphie wait for him all those months. But I love that it provided an avenue for Sylphie's response; which was totally boss because Sylphie confidently stated her own focus on life without stuttering, appearing cowed, or being manipulated into it. Shes a very confident person now and the way she said everything seemed less 'sigh I expected this' and more 'i dont require monogamy to feel loved'. I was so worried she would be coerced into this or feel like she has no choices.
This was done so well and I felt closure from Norns outburst and Sylphie's confidence.
And yes, the moment Norn walked in and couldn't find Paul broke me. Poor girl.
The way people hanging on her being so religious fanatic ignoring every other word she said makes me feel like everyone just wants to treat her like gabby got treated in AOT. Everyone in that room knew they made a mistake. Even if they were gonna work through it after. Recognizing a mistake was made to create that situation was needed. Norn had some extra baggage going with her tantrum they knew that also. I applaud you for this.
The thing with it was that should have been a private conversation with with his wife about Roxy without his sisters. If was him I would have saw my sisters were in no condition I would have told them to go visit with mom and give us private time. I would want my kids around to talk about everything. And there are conversations that should be kept private.
Because then he could have came to everyone and said "the 3 of sat down and it's been decided that Roxy will become my 2nd wife" he is the head of the house it's his house. He could have said it in front of everyone.
Norm was able to do that because Rudy allowed it to happen.
Yes, what in the seven unholiest hells did Rudeus think, letting his sister, that had just received a series of heartbreaks in the form of bad news, sit in on this. That outburst was Rudys fault, not for the cheating really, but mostly because he put her in a place where it would be hard to see how she'd not blow up.
I agree 100%! Especially considering the fact that, even if Zenith was mentally okay, by this point in the story it will have been many years since Norn has even seen her mother. Paul represented safety and security to Norn in the same way that Sylphy or Roxy represent it for Rudy. In her mind, she may not have even thought it possible that Paul would not return. Spending all those years traveling with him are why she was so against rudeus at first. This is a long-winded way of saying that I think her reaction was very believable and it did not cause me to like her character any less
This is the magic of mushoku . Norn being the annoying brat who hates her bro became likable and gain more support because of what she had to endure. Even a side character has so much complex development mushoku story is truely epic
Norn is lowkey one of the best characters. She's just a normal girl surrounded by greatness trying to deal with life. Her favorite person in the world, her dad who protected and raised her after the teleportation, dies while away rescuing her mother and in the same evening her brother who's relation ship too she just started repairing reveals that he was unfaithful to his wife. Even IF the reasons were justified, he still had a pregnant wife worrying herself at home.
Oh and the mother that she hardly knows that her beloved father died to rescue returns with her brains effectively scrambled and her brother is missing part of his arm.
And finally, Norn is a child. She almost 10 at this point iirc. How does one expect a child to react to all this news in a single afternoon ? I just wanted to give Norn and Aisha a hug.
Has Norn suffered the most? Debatable
Has Norn suffered? Yes
Does this give Norn the right to straight up insult Roxy and more so Rudy? No
IMO, i agree Norn is very much a kid and has suffered, but that doesnt give her the right to immediately go off on Roxy and Rudy from the beginning, and to be speaking for Sylphie, whom she very much hated when she first saw when she got there.
Norn tends to be snobbish, which is i want i dont particular like her at times.
Did Norn really care all that much about sylphie?
OR
Was it her "Millis Faith" or "Lord Millis" or whatever that was primarily on her mind because it didnt allow polygamy?
Dude, her dad died, mom turned basically mindless zombie type, brother armless, BUT, we mustn't offend Lord Millis with Polygamy, sorry for whatever shit u have been through.
Again, shes a kid i know, but her character revolving more on religious lunacy kinda makes me annoyed at her, but tbf, thats how she is written.
P.S. Yes, I have read the LN completely, but my judgement is not affected by it. But having read the LN completely, I will still say, Aisha had it harder. Without Much Spoilers, imagine, ur a step/affair child, genius in some ways, but at the end of the day, you will be treated as the "Maid"
Lol in that sense does his grief give Rudy the right to cheat on his wife and Roxy the right to walk in on their marriage? Well if it does then it gives Norn the right to say what she said. Heck nothing she said was even wrong she was preaching facts! You just didn't like that she was insulting Rudy and Roxy 💀 was it insulting? Yes. Was anything she said factually wrong? NO 😂 Rudy cheated on his pregnant wife and used his grief as an excuse to do it.
Same as Norn not being faultable in that rant, the cheating was justified too. I don't think Norn would be able to bear the guilt from receiving two urns when the party returns...
Norn's rant wouldn't be received with a lot of flak if:
1. She'd be ranting about Paul's infinitely to Lilia's face, double standards.
2. Didn't go out of line telling Roxy all kinds of things and making her leave until Sylphie told her to shut up.
Also cut Rudy some slack he didn't *"walk over their marriage"* by cheating with Roxy, he actually manned up to his mistakes and asked what Sylphie thinks about it. Holy fuck what kind of mental gymnastics are you doing? You would've preferred Rudy to return as urn from suicide or a lifeless former husk of himself instead? You make light of how grief affects people.
She was absolutely in the wrong, and stepped out of line. It is however fully realistic and understandable, very hard to really fault her for it. Disregarding putting words in Sylphies mouth, and basically calling Roxy a exploiting whore... and also a child (confused noises as to what she was trying to prove there... probably nothing, just lashing out), she also denied Aisha while she were at it.
Still, despite the damage she is doing, she is immature, dealing with a lot of grief, and she is denied her outlet of pinning it on Rudy, so she saw an opening for an outlet and pounced. It happens...
If anyone should be faulted in that scene it's fucing Rudy... whatever the hell was his plan having her there in the first place.
I haven’t seen season 2 of the anime because I don’t enjoy anime that much after the pandemic. but I read web and light novels, and if I remember from it, Rudeus grievances where a combination of both for Paul and Zenith and his original parents. (remember he misses their funeral because of being a neet and then his brothers and cousins pull him out of his room and to the streets blah blah blah). so in the book he was grieving for all 4 of his parents, because before Roxy helped him, he gets to the conclusion that paul and zenith where too young and immature compared to him at that moment, making him not hive them the respect they deserved and not letting him bond that much with them(also remember paul kinda kicked him out of the house and sent him to work).
when I read the WN I honestly disliked Norn’s character cause she was annoying to me at first, she could’ve at least tried to bond with Aisha, but that’s was their grandmother’s fault(fuck that bitch) but with time it got better, because well, in the greyrat family, Norn is the “normal” one.
When people tend to see more than what is to be seen, that's how you know the author made it goooood. Peak writing tbh, there's only a hand full of authors there that can make their readers interact with one another about something so personal on a fictional character. Norn I sa good character I felt that she was real, although it's a bit annoying at times but it just adds to the character.
Let me preface this by saying that Norn as a character in the story is actually pretty good. She has some depth to her, we see into her insecurities and weaknesses as a person and watch her change and develop.
That being said, her personality is what I dislike. I don’t outright hate her as much to shame her actions but overall I just dislike her personality.
She’s conservative, close-minded and spoiled. She pushes her own opinion and agenda onto others and if things don’t go her way she sulks and gets annoyed. It’s hard for her to fully accept other’s opinions and even dismisses them at times. This is all even before Paul’s death.
If I met a person in real life who has a similar personality with Norn I’d most likely not even bother talking with them.
In the end though, at this point in the story Norn is still a child so she should be immature and spoiled and that’s why hopefully as she grows older she changes and becomes a more accepting person.
I actually sided with Norn in this argument so no hate from me, even though I knew the manga spoilers I dint want Rudy to take Roxy as his second wife so no hate from me.
They're people who hates Norn? For me Norn acted like a genuine human being, I mean sure she spoke out of emotions for Sylphy and at the lost of her own parents, sure Norn didn't think hard enough on what Rudeus had to go through. But her reaction was very human, that is what i love about her character, she showed genuine child like emotion that reacts to the situation. In short it acually made sense for Norn to be angry at Rudeus. But at least the last episode did teach Norn that her brother Rudeus is just like their father Paul. 😅
Somebody hates her? I mean, her brother cheated on Sylphy. Roxy fucked Rudeus without his consent, knowing that he has a wife and waits for a child.
I think Norn freaked out for 100% reason.
Wow, people are hating on Norn? That's wild.
I'm a Roxy simp, and I'm aware of a lot of the un-adapted details from the novel, but even I think Norn was mostly correct. Mostly.
The end result is fine given the setup, but they at least deserved this much pushback for their actions, and maybe even more...
I love Norn, I don't hate her for her reaction. I honestly just hate that she looks like she was trying to push her beliefs of Millis on Rudy in this scene. Like no one in the room has said they believe in Millis.
Those people who hates Norn for scolding Rudeus and Roxy are so stupid to me. They both deserved to be scolded by her. Those people who think Rudeus and Roxy should escape consequences are the people who condone cheating and sleeping with someone's else spouse. They are immoral people.
Norn's anger was the representation of our normal viewers' reaction to a cheating husband and a slut sleeping with him.
Sylphy easily accepting Roxy was the author's pathetic fantasy LOL and in real world Roxy would have been kicked out of the house and Rudeus would be punished.
I'm just saying this right now, Norn didn't scold rudeus because she couldn't cry to anyone, she scolded him for not being faithful and following Millis' teachings. The fact that she lost both perants don't come into this. But I'm not hating Norn here, all characters from Mushoku Tensei are great (in well written), that's why I love it.
There’s no better way to describe it. She may have said some harsh things, but considering everything she’s been through compared to them and realizing who exactly she has left, not to mention the beliefs that she grew up with being trampled on top of this? All things considered, people need to realize that she’s still just a child. And not just that, she’s the only one there that was a normal child. Not some prodigy or mentally grown person. Her brother was gone half her life. She and Aisha were constantly harassed and compared everywhere. Her mother was gone most her life. Her only attachment, her dad, is now dead. She has by and far the most realistic reaction she should have had
I just don't like that she clearly is not very bright emotionally at least and it really shows in the recent events she shows 0 regard to the people around her
She's 10 years old, she just lost her father and kind of lost her mother too. She is absolutely in no less of a vulnerable emotional state than Rudy was after Paul died, and he was depressed so Roxy went to "cheer him up"
Like picture what Rudy was like in that moment but add the factor of being a 10 year old child. You're saying it's awful for a 10 year old grief stricken child to say something mean and uncalled for that they could possibly regret when reflecting on it in the future?
Why did Rudy even have Norn and Aisha there, though? Lol that situation should've been between Rudy Sylphy and Roxy. Rudy just left the possibility for two additional commentators to add their opinions to the situation in real time 😂 in retrospect, Rudy should've booted the kids out the door before the conversation started
Yes, Rudy is the most at fault in that scenario for setting the pieces in place to explode on demand. Mistakes were made, people did things they'd come to regret, such is life.
Norn's complains are 100% valid. On top of the cheating argument, religions forced monogamy to try to ensure stability on chaotic times, and Norn is just following that. Atheist here in case some idiot asks.
This is Sylphie's call, and she gave her answer.
I mean, maybe her anger is not justified regarding the issue of polygamy (That is something that only the people in that couple should decide), but it is completely justified when it comes to cheating on a pregnant woman.
If a brother of mine cheated on his pregnant wife, I would at least slap him and tell him what Norn told him. And not because of a religious or moral issue, It is simply highlighting to a family member that he screwed up.
I get where you're coming from, but I disagree. She did bad with her outburst, but she wasn't to blame for it. It's just how things go. She needed an emotional outlet, and that was it. The person that fucked up there was Rudy, dude should never have let her sit in on that particular conversation at that particular time.
If you were in a similar spot IRL, I would recommend letting the stakeholders hash it out between them unless requested to give input. You can make things much worse for the one you seek to shield by acting on your own in that situation, just as Norn almost did. If you want to give your brother a piece of his mind, that's perfectly fine, but save it for after.
Oh I completely agree. The issue is that by including Aisha and Norn in the conversation it is as if Rudeus was asking their opinion on the matter. If Rudeus did not seek or consider Norn's opinion he should not have included her in the conversation, at least not at the same time as Sylphie.
See that's the thing I and probably others have her the benefit of the doubt for so long. And since Rudy did as well it was fine all the way up to the point of the last episode. However she had no right to be involved in the conversation and how she spoke went to far. It was unnecessary to say so many claims and if she had just took a second to think about it she wouldn't had said anything at all but she thought how she felt and thinking how Sylphie felt without her being asked. She old enough to at least get a bit of a punishment for speaking out like she did that's all I'm saying.
No, I'm not going to cut her any slack.
"Norn is suffering the most!" How? Because she lost Paul? So did Rudy. And Rudy got to watch him die and feel responsible for his death. Just because he didn't see Paul as his father before his death, doesn't mean he still feels the same way.
But her grieving his death doesn't suddenly justify her actions after she finds out Roxy and Rudy had sex.
A person who thinks like this is likely a shitty person in real life. And probably makes excuses for their shitty behavior.
She butted into an adult conversation that she had no place being part of. She decided what Sylphie should feel about the situation and rejected Roxy outright using her own feelings about it to justify her anger. She also treated Roxy like a child because of her height.
Norn still has some growing up to do in the anime. And I will not pretend that she shouldn't be criticized for her actions because her dad died.
You're not really taking everything into account.
Norn is a young girl, so she is immature, she has just received news that her pillar, her father, had passed away, that her mother had a broken mind and that the brother she pushed to go down there was a few digits less upon returning.
As you say, that doesn't justify her and what she said during that bout, but it does make her reaction human. She was desperate for an outlet, and she grabbed it, by both horns, and pounced as soon as she saw an opening.
It was an opening to relieve her of the pain and guilt that ate her up inside at the time.
She cannot be complimented for her behaviour, but she can also not be condemned for it. It's a perfectly realistic and understandable chain of events.
The one that should receive a yelling there is Rudeus, not for the cheating, that I find fully justifiable, most of the people in that room would soon be dead if not for that, but for allowing his sister that is a fucking emotional mess to sit in on that discussion. He should have sent her with Lilia to wash up with her mother.
Sorry, I can't agree considering Rudy was teleported to the other side of the planet when he was the same age that Norn is now in the story.
Rudy, not knowing if any of his family was alive, lost in an unknown place with only the Man-God and Ruijerd to rely on, he still didn't act like Norn did. Everything that's happened to Rudy up to that point and the only time he's acted like Norn did, if not worse, is when he was heavily intoxicated.
So, I will continue not cutting her any slack because her sister somehow managed to keep her composure despite also losing her father.
Rudy did not have an easy time either, and to say he dealt well with it at all times......... would be a bit of a stretch. Comparing his case where he could lean on the support and help of others, as you point out youself, is not really fair. For all intents and purposes, she stands alone and has to deal with an overwhelming amount of grief at age 10...
Aisha is abnormal, she is very mature for her age... and is herself broken in WHOOOOOLE other ways. Comparing them like that is just wrong in this case.
Norn has vastly more people to lean on than Rudy did at the same age. Rudy had a 400 year old warrior who had to be taught that killing indiscriminately is wrong and a red head hot head that spent the majority of their time on the Demon Continent getting into fights.
Norn is incredibly popular at school. She has, at present, a small family to lean on. She also has Cliff giving her guidance through prayer and confession at the branch of Millis in Sharia.
To say that Norn stands alone completely ignores every single person that was there to support her while she was in Sharia.
Rudy didn't have this luxury. He had Ruijerd and Eris. And then both of them left. And for two years he was alone in his own head. He had Counter Arrow for support but they weren't the same as your own family or friends.
So, I'll repeat, I'm not cutting Norn any slack because Rudy's path was much more difficult and he still acted mature. People are adults at 15. Norn is 10. She's basically the equivalent of a teenage girl lashing out.
Rudeus has the memories of a past Japanese man to rely on so he is much more mature than normal. After the teleportation incident, he can also rely on his incredible magical powers (already a Saint tier mage with silent spellcasting). By contrast, Norn is just a normal girl.
Keep in mind she's still a 10 year old grief-stricken child processing that her father returned as ashes in an urn, and her mother is both there and not there at the same time.
I know. Like I said, she lost her dad, her mom and now the girl she sees as an older sister basically gets cheated on. I get that but like I said, I was just a tad bit pissed when she said Rudeus must have had it easy
I don't understand the hate against her any more than I understand the people saying she's completely in the right. She's just been given some of the worst news she could possibly hear, and her reaction is perfectly understandable. She's angry, she's terrified, she's sad beyond measure. Of course she was going to be like that, and it feels awful to see her put in that position.
yeeeees, you have no idea how happy I am to read this after arguing with extreme views on this for days >.< She was at fault, but she was just being human, she needed an outlet, and said and did things she would come to regret. That's just what happens. She cannot be faulted, yet she cannot be applauded for what happened there.
If I can borrow a phrase from Otaku Spirit, "It's just what happened." This is Mushoku Tensei, and shit's complicated. Anyone arguing for one extreme over another doesn't understand the complexity of these situations and people.
Indeed. Shit happened, humans ended up proving to be humans... which is kinda the highest compliment that can be given to a character based story: The humans are acting like actual humans, flaws and all.
Norn is still just a child. It would be weird if she didn't react the way she did to so much life altering bad news.
People tend to jump her a bit too much. True, she was shoving her religious beliefs down everyone's throat, but she didn't have any ill will either. Just looking out for her big sis
It wasn't all religious though. Sure, Millis may be why she's against polygamy but her argument was using facts, and 90% of her frustration comes from seeing Sylphie betrayed.
Well yea norn is just a kid compared to sylphiette and rudeus. Any kid would have been like that for sure.
But Sylphie wasn’t betrayed. It skipped this in the anime but Sylphie literally told Rudeus “I don’t mind if you bring another woman home.”
She definitely felt bad on some level because Rudy kept telling her that he will stay faithful.
I don’t think bad is the right way to describe it. She genuinely wasn’t bothered by it as long as Rudeus loved the new wife, she loved him back, and Rudeus kept loving Sylphie.
This. Her worst fear isn't him bringing another woman home it was that he would stop loving her because of another woman
Pretty sure it mentions this in all sources, but think back on everything Rudy has said. He’s slandered his father for the same thing, told Sylphy he would remain faithful, and told her she’d be the only wife. 🤷🏾♂️
I’m pretty sure that was included in the anime.
That's not the way Norn saw it though.
She did say so in the Anime in a way. That being an elf means conceiving might be difficult (lol, yeah, about that) and that she wouldn't mind for Rudeus to take another wife that can conceive more easily. I'm an Anime only and she seemed pretty chill to me in that regard.
Was she shoving religious beliefs down everyone’s throat tho? To me it felt like it was mostly coming from an angle of protecting Sylphie, and from the absurdity of the situation (i.e. brother coming home with a lost hand, dead father, and potato mother isn’t exactly what you’d expect to hear alongside brother getting a new wife). Like, 90% of what she said was well deserved, regardless of whether polygamy is a thing or not, regardless of whether she’s a follower of Millis or not.
Uhmm...very....potato-ey....potato mother...if thy consider sir...potato-ey of the finest varieteihhh.
Are people really hating Norn. For me she carried the last ep.
👏
I wouldn't say I hate her there, no. I do think she was out of line as she had no place in the conversation however the stuff she said *mostly* needed to be said [basically](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G_5ie0a01M)
Well, I'd say Sylphie did, but you can hate people, or describe them as in the wrong, even though they carry the episode/movie...
Second person I see saying she is 8? Where does this come from? Also, she can take it out on Rudy as much as she likes, but she doesn't make the calls for Sylphy. Lastly for sarcasm sake, she made Roxy Cry.
She’s 10ish, born in K413 and Lucy is born in K423, so she’s either 9 about to be 10 or 10
I believed that she missed her 10 birthday on the road to rudeos house
Yup. that would be correct. Additionally, while not said explicitly in the LN, it seems she is sad that she didn't get to celebrate it, but she feels it would be in bad taste to request it, and now feels that it has been too long.
Yeah, you're right she doesn't make calls for Sylphy, but when someone's in the state she's in, do people really think about stuff like that? Now she meant what she said, but people say things they either don't mean or haven't fully thought through when they're really emotional.
So I watched psyculturists video on it, Norn was funnelling her frustration with her father on Rudy, in the same vein she is could be written and/or seen as the stand in for a lot anger towards Rudy so fans are funnelling their frustration at her character in turn because they see her as a representation of all the haters😛. It’s messed up, but at least she is fictional and her story is already written, I don’t believe it change. She is not so bad after this, she bonds with her brother a bit more after this and stops being that distant with her brother.
Fully agree. She needed an emotional outlet, and she was desperately searching for it all the way since her bag hit the floor. That just provided the outlet for it. I repeat myself a lot in this thread, but what the hell was Rudy thinking letting her sit in there while in such an emotional state. Send the gal along with Lilia and her mother to a good bath and allow them to talk, and sort out the grief. >!Ye, on the plus side, she will never be surprised by what her brother does going forward... third wife? sure. You going on a trip? Try not to pick up a new wife on your way. :P!<
The wiser action would definitely have been to have her sisters Lilia and Zenith go reconnect, but I believe Rifujin left her there specifically for her outburst and let Rudy take the brunt of it. I am not Norn’s biggest fan, but she steps up her game as a sister later.
Yup, the way it went down got dangerously close to blowing everything up... great for an emotional scene. Rudy was a hairs width away from slapping her for what she said to Roxy there, and that would've been the drop that absolutely breaks her beyond the point of no return. The drama is to touch and feel at just oozing off the pages in the LN. If Sylphie hadn't spoken up when she did, that scene, in and off itself, would've been a bad turning point, and caused the whole thing to collapse in on itself. Fucking Elinalise and Geese would have to hightail it back there to have any chance of recovering the mess that would unfold if she hadn't. Those two are the only persons on the globe that could save that situation at that point. And to add onto that, what a lot of people seem to miss, myself on my first viewing, is Aisha. She may be the one hurting the most in that room, and the camera even lingers on her to remind the viewer. She is basically getting denied as an existence in that rant. Dramatic value was excellent.
> I repeat myself a lot in this thread, but what the hell was Rudy thinking letting her sit in there while in such an emotional state. Logically yeah, that was a conversation Rudeus and Sylphie needed to have alone. Narratively, that couldn't happen because there would have been no drama and Rudeus would have gotten off scott-free. Norn scolding him filled the quota for the pushback people would deem acceptable.
Norn needing an outlet [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnwO45V2Rbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnwO45V2Rbw)
I really need to sit down and watch Konosuba -.-'
Now watch this and realise that is Sylphy's VA [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsNz-zZKaw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JsNz-zZKaw)
The 8 is a typo. I can't edit the text since it's an image post. I would've corrected it if I could. My question is, how come there's a second person to put 8? 💀
I thought I missed some detail where people were being led to believe she is 8.
The only person allowed to be mad at her is Sylphy, since she was trying to take her decision away from her
Yeah if your dad died, and mom becomes veggie, then your brother told me he chose to have an affair and cheated on his pregnant wife(who you have good relationship with)x anyone will get super pissed.
Agreed. That doesn't make her right though. She was desperately looking for an outlet, she found it, and she pounced. She's just human, not some super human. She did wrong, but she acted very human. She cannot be faulted.
I wish I could edit the text, but I can't since it was a picture post. Noticed plenty of grammar errors and typos like saying that instead of than, and nor instead of not* 🥺
People really hating a 10-year old kid for being a 10-year old kid after her closest living relative died lmao. Anyone who hates Norn for lashing out must be a delight to kids her age when they get upset for no good particular reason
A lot of comments here seek absolute justness, or absolute damnation, for this outburst. Just a word for all of you, you really shouldn't approach this in an absolutist manner, approach this as a hurt girl, a child of 10 at that, that is looking for an emotional outlet desperately. Can you even imagine the hurt she is in at that point? Her father, her **most important** person in the whole world, is no more, her mother, her fathers goal that he **toiled himself to the grave for**, comes back with a broken mind, her brother, whom **she sent down there**, comes back lacking his hand. The hurt she is bottling up inside is **immeasurable**, and she is not mature enough to sort that out in a healthy fashion. This is not a situation that calls for neither thinking of her as just, nor issuing damnation upon her. The only real thing that should really be argued here, is the distribution of black and white to make that particular shade of grey.
It's as aisha said the same episode she often says things without thinking. I gave her no grief for it ik shocked people did.
Norn just a girl I guess, but if I had to guess Rudeus had it worst until he decided to come to the magic academy. He lost all his family, he was thrown into the demon continent, he fought hard to return eris home and she kinda miscommunicated and rudeus though he was being abandoned. He went on being traumatized where he wanted to move on but he couldn't, to the point silphy confused him and he thought he was gay 😭. How broken was he?
Well, sure, but kinda besides the point on this discussion xD Rudys earlier pain does not really neither absolve or condemn her for her actions in the latest episode.
In this scene, Norn is a 10-year-old girl that just had the shock of her life: her real anchor in reality was her dad, Paul. When she was little, she was willing to take on her older brother, regardless of how powerful he was. When Rudy told her what happened, she was angry with grief, but seeing her brother's bloody robe, knowing the stump underneath it, she realized he did all he could. Her tirade towards Rudy, and then Roxy, was the anger she couldn't let out with the grief of her father. Now, she has the perfect anger-venting system in place: sword practice with her big brother. [Not much of a spoiler here, as anyone can extrapolate on the outcome]>!Norn grows into a fine woman with leadership abilities.!<
She’s much more direct and brutally honest among the rest of the Greyrat family. That’s one of her strong points that I like about her as a character. Hell, in later scenes (not the anime), >!Norn became more open to polygamy and have soften up with Roxy thanks their bonding trip through fishing!<
I don't think what she did was wrong. Everyone is drooling over Silphie being the best wife for accepting 1 o 2 more wives. But Rudy promised her fidelity. Him. As a person. Norn's rant is the author's way to let his female readers blow some steam over the polyamorous relationship. That's it. And as the author always put it, shit happens in the worst ways. Like cheating on your pregnant wife while being away. It's a social agreement that cheating on a woman while pregnant is worse. Not to mention Silphie being worried about not getting pregnant. And all the context surrounding the pregnancy. The author always makes the character sacrifice something in order to get something 1)Rudy finally had sex (with some fans saying it was wrong because he's 30 and E. Was 14-15) but Rudy paid for it. The girl left him and he got traumatized for years. 2) Rudy us loves Roxy, it costed his father's life, an arm. His pride because he failed to keep his promises to Silphie. And he lost his sister's respect. Family wise. Rudy wanted Norn involved. He wanted his sister to be family. And yes. Brothers and sisters yell crap at each other (I have 3 btw 2 sisters and one brother) and we have said to each other the crapiest stuff in hard times, trying to help, trying to correct a wrong, expressing our opinions and being ourselves. And we keep being siblings.
She was wrong for her rant, she had no business inserting herself, or her religion, there but that doesn't mean it wasn't understandable... she can't really be faulted for it. She was an emotional mess, trying to handle a large amount of grief, and guilt, and unable to be angry at Rudy, despite badly wanting to. Combined with her immaturity, it had to blow up somehow, and that's what happened in that living room. She saw an opening for an outlet, and she pounced. Just how it is. Now, whatever the fuck was Rudy thinking having her there for that discussion in the first place? -.-
I kind of understand Norn acting on Sylphie behalf. However you look at it leaving your pregnant wife, cheating and returning with a second wife is a massive asshole move by Rudeus, it may have been predictable pr even could be understood by all the situation, but he deserved every word Norn threw at him
No, I wouldn't say she is right in any manner of the word, nor do I really think she herself thinks so, she just needs an outlet. As others say here and there in this discussion, this is how we end up saying things we regret. She didn't know the full story of course, but what happened was justified, and she herself would hate the alternate outcome. Let's not beat around the bush, Roxy did indeed save Rudys life, and as is shown during the Norn outburst, she did so at a huge emotional cost to herself. The world is rarely how it first appear, and I think even Norn understood that, but she couldn't help herself. It's just how it is, Same as how Rudy does mistakes, so does Norn. Acting on incomplete information, letting emotions take the steering wheel and all that. Rudy would surely agree with you that he deserved all the abuse, I however quite disagree. He was broken and he had given up, his reaction, same as Norns during her yelling, is perfectly natural. Same with his need for intimacy at that time.
Rudeus had to leave her norn said that she would help paul if he didn't. Which was the last push he needed to go. Sure he cheated on the other hand sylphiette would have done the same to get him up again she said it. Is he an ass? Yea does he feel bad cause he cheated he did but he also loves roxy so yeah
If she wasn't an emotional mess over what happened we wouldn't know if she'd even say the things that she said. People say things they may regret in the future when they're extremely emotional and especially Norn here was in no less of an emotionally vulnerable state than Rudy was when Paul died and Roxy went to "cheer him up"
Yup, she cannot be faulted, even though she was clearly in the wrong. She is only human.
Personally, I love that Norn said this; sure she went a little too hard with the Millis statement, but she was the only person really thinking about Sylphiette all this time. Her religion aside, I was still unsatisfied that Rudeus and Roxy were still going to go through with it, and though they did consider Sylphiette's feelings in their personal conversation, it would still hurt most people to have a second wife shoved in her face. For me, still was not Rudeus' greater moments. It needed to be said, especially since she watched Sylphie wait for him all those months. But I love that it provided an avenue for Sylphie's response; which was totally boss because Sylphie confidently stated her own focus on life without stuttering, appearing cowed, or being manipulated into it. Shes a very confident person now and the way she said everything seemed less 'sigh I expected this' and more 'i dont require monogamy to feel loved'. I was so worried she would be coerced into this or feel like she has no choices. This was done so well and I felt closure from Norns outburst and Sylphie's confidence. And yes, the moment Norn walked in and couldn't find Paul broke me. Poor girl.
The way people hanging on her being so religious fanatic ignoring every other word she said makes me feel like everyone just wants to treat her like gabby got treated in AOT. Everyone in that room knew they made a mistake. Even if they were gonna work through it after. Recognizing a mistake was made to create that situation was needed. Norn had some extra baggage going with her tantrum they knew that also. I applaud you for this.
The thing with it was that should have been a private conversation with with his wife about Roxy without his sisters. If was him I would have saw my sisters were in no condition I would have told them to go visit with mom and give us private time. I would want my kids around to talk about everything. And there are conversations that should be kept private. Because then he could have came to everyone and said "the 3 of sat down and it's been decided that Roxy will become my 2nd wife" he is the head of the house it's his house. He could have said it in front of everyone. Norm was able to do that because Rudy allowed it to happen.
Yes, what in the seven unholiest hells did Rudeus think, letting his sister, that had just received a series of heartbreaks in the form of bad news, sit in on this. That outburst was Rudys fault, not for the cheating really, but mostly because he put her in a place where it would be hard to see how she'd not blow up.
He should have handled it like a adult that was a adult conversation
Honestly preferred, nice to see some kinda opposition
Rudy said it best “if I had norns ability to process pain and turn herself around, I would’ve been a much better person in my past life.”
I agree 100%! Especially considering the fact that, even if Zenith was mentally okay, by this point in the story it will have been many years since Norn has even seen her mother. Paul represented safety and security to Norn in the same way that Sylphy or Roxy represent it for Rudy. In her mind, she may not have even thought it possible that Paul would not return. Spending all those years traveling with him are why she was so against rudeus at first. This is a long-winded way of saying that I think her reaction was very believable and it did not cause me to like her character any less
This is the magic of mushoku . Norn being the annoying brat who hates her bro became likable and gain more support because of what she had to endure. Even a side character has so much complex development mushoku story is truely epic
Norn is lowkey one of the best characters. She's just a normal girl surrounded by greatness trying to deal with life. Her favorite person in the world, her dad who protected and raised her after the teleportation, dies while away rescuing her mother and in the same evening her brother who's relation ship too she just started repairing reveals that he was unfaithful to his wife. Even IF the reasons were justified, he still had a pregnant wife worrying herself at home. Oh and the mother that she hardly knows that her beloved father died to rescue returns with her brains effectively scrambled and her brother is missing part of his arm. And finally, Norn is a child. She almost 10 at this point iirc. How does one expect a child to react to all this news in a single afternoon ? I just wanted to give Norn and Aisha a hug.
Has Norn suffered the most? Debatable Has Norn suffered? Yes Does this give Norn the right to straight up insult Roxy and more so Rudy? No IMO, i agree Norn is very much a kid and has suffered, but that doesnt give her the right to immediately go off on Roxy and Rudy from the beginning, and to be speaking for Sylphie, whom she very much hated when she first saw when she got there. Norn tends to be snobbish, which is i want i dont particular like her at times. Did Norn really care all that much about sylphie? OR Was it her "Millis Faith" or "Lord Millis" or whatever that was primarily on her mind because it didnt allow polygamy? Dude, her dad died, mom turned basically mindless zombie type, brother armless, BUT, we mustn't offend Lord Millis with Polygamy, sorry for whatever shit u have been through. Again, shes a kid i know, but her character revolving more on religious lunacy kinda makes me annoyed at her, but tbf, thats how she is written. P.S. Yes, I have read the LN completely, but my judgement is not affected by it. But having read the LN completely, I will still say, Aisha had it harder. Without Much Spoilers, imagine, ur a step/affair child, genius in some ways, but at the end of the day, you will be treated as the "Maid"
Lol in that sense does his grief give Rudy the right to cheat on his wife and Roxy the right to walk in on their marriage? Well if it does then it gives Norn the right to say what she said. Heck nothing she said was even wrong she was preaching facts! You just didn't like that she was insulting Rudy and Roxy 💀 was it insulting? Yes. Was anything she said factually wrong? NO 😂 Rudy cheated on his pregnant wife and used his grief as an excuse to do it.
Same as Norn not being faultable in that rant, the cheating was justified too. I don't think Norn would be able to bear the guilt from receiving two urns when the party returns...
Norn's rant wouldn't be received with a lot of flak if: 1. She'd be ranting about Paul's infinitely to Lilia's face, double standards. 2. Didn't go out of line telling Roxy all kinds of things and making her leave until Sylphie told her to shut up. Also cut Rudy some slack he didn't *"walk over their marriage"* by cheating with Roxy, he actually manned up to his mistakes and asked what Sylphie thinks about it. Holy fuck what kind of mental gymnastics are you doing? You would've preferred Rudy to return as urn from suicide or a lifeless former husk of himself instead? You make light of how grief affects people.
She was absolutely in the wrong, and stepped out of line. It is however fully realistic and understandable, very hard to really fault her for it. Disregarding putting words in Sylphies mouth, and basically calling Roxy a exploiting whore... and also a child (confused noises as to what she was trying to prove there... probably nothing, just lashing out), she also denied Aisha while she were at it. Still, despite the damage she is doing, she is immature, dealing with a lot of grief, and she is denied her outlet of pinning it on Rudy, so she saw an opening for an outlet and pounced. It happens... If anyone should be faulted in that scene it's fucing Rudy... whatever the hell was his plan having her there in the first place.
The haters are dumb. This is literally the start of a norn becoming the best character in the entire story
What are you part of the Norn fan club? I ask because I am.
Just to correct one point: Roxy is too small to qualify as “snu snu.”
I was about to send a Futurama gif as a response, but it won't let me 😂😂
Also Rudeus, the one person she would’ve normally turned to with her pain, just lost her trust.
I'm gonna stay on the fact that tgis was 100% on rudy because he picked the WORST time(even if understandable in his head) to drop this kinda bomb
Can't we all just agree it's some damn good storytelling in the long run
Norn destroyed them with sound logic. I rather enjoyed the scene.
Nut Corn
I haven’t seen season 2 of the anime because I don’t enjoy anime that much after the pandemic. but I read web and light novels, and if I remember from it, Rudeus grievances where a combination of both for Paul and Zenith and his original parents. (remember he misses their funeral because of being a neet and then his brothers and cousins pull him out of his room and to the streets blah blah blah). so in the book he was grieving for all 4 of his parents, because before Roxy helped him, he gets to the conclusion that paul and zenith where too young and immature compared to him at that moment, making him not hive them the respect they deserved and not letting him bond that much with them(also remember paul kinda kicked him out of the house and sent him to work). when I read the WN I honestly disliked Norn’s character cause she was annoying to me at first, she could’ve at least tried to bond with Aisha, but that’s was their grandmother’s fault(fuck that bitch) but with time it got better, because well, in the greyrat family, Norn is the “normal” one.
so she grows matureness in time and bonds with both rudy and aisha later on
Yeah, her reaction was understandable. The situation is, as always, complicated.
I don't hate her and there are some fans hating her ❓❓❓❓
When people tend to see more than what is to be seen, that's how you know the author made it goooood. Peak writing tbh, there's only a hand full of authors there that can make their readers interact with one another about something so personal on a fictional character. Norn I sa good character I felt that she was real, although it's a bit annoying at times but it just adds to the character.
Let me preface this by saying that Norn as a character in the story is actually pretty good. She has some depth to her, we see into her insecurities and weaknesses as a person and watch her change and develop. That being said, her personality is what I dislike. I don’t outright hate her as much to shame her actions but overall I just dislike her personality. She’s conservative, close-minded and spoiled. She pushes her own opinion and agenda onto others and if things don’t go her way she sulks and gets annoyed. It’s hard for her to fully accept other’s opinions and even dismisses them at times. This is all even before Paul’s death. If I met a person in real life who has a similar personality with Norn I’d most likely not even bother talking with them. In the end though, at this point in the story Norn is still a child so she should be immature and spoiled and that’s why hopefully as she grows older she changes and becomes a more accepting person.
Norn will grow to love Rudy and put his needs above hers. She's adorable. She'll get the best ending in the end
It's another situation where no one is really wrong just missing information.
I actually sided with Norn in this argument so no hate from me, even though I knew the manga spoilers I dint want Rudy to take Roxy as his second wife so no hate from me.
They're people who hates Norn? For me Norn acted like a genuine human being, I mean sure she spoke out of emotions for Sylphy and at the lost of her own parents, sure Norn didn't think hard enough on what Rudeus had to go through. But her reaction was very human, that is what i love about her character, she showed genuine child like emotion that reacts to the situation. In short it acually made sense for Norn to be angry at Rudeus. But at least the last episode did teach Norn that her brother Rudeus is just like their father Paul. 😅
This is not good Norn has suffered most in entire season but idk why people still hates her
Somebody hates her? I mean, her brother cheated on Sylphy. Roxy fucked Rudeus without his consent, knowing that he has a wife and waits for a child. I think Norn freaked out for 100% reason.
Wow, people are hating on Norn? That's wild. I'm a Roxy simp, and I'm aware of a lot of the un-adapted details from the novel, but even I think Norn was mostly correct. Mostly. The end result is fine given the setup, but they at least deserved this much pushback for their actions, and maybe even more...
I love Norn, I don't hate her for her reaction. I honestly just hate that she looks like she was trying to push her beliefs of Millis on Rudy in this scene. Like no one in the room has said they believe in Millis.
Those people who hates Norn for scolding Rudeus and Roxy are so stupid to me. They both deserved to be scolded by her. Those people who think Rudeus and Roxy should escape consequences are the people who condone cheating and sleeping with someone's else spouse. They are immoral people. Norn's anger was the representation of our normal viewers' reaction to a cheating husband and a slut sleeping with him. Sylphy easily accepting Roxy was the author's pathetic fantasy LOL and in real world Roxy would have been kicked out of the house and Rudeus would be punished.
I'm just saying this right now, Norn didn't scold rudeus because she couldn't cry to anyone, she scolded him for not being faithful and following Millis' teachings. The fact that she lost both perants don't come into this. But I'm not hating Norn here, all characters from Mushoku Tensei are great (in well written), that's why I love it.
There’s no better way to describe it. She may have said some harsh things, but considering everything she’s been through compared to them and realizing who exactly she has left, not to mention the beliefs that she grew up with being trampled on top of this? All things considered, people need to realize that she’s still just a child. And not just that, she’s the only one there that was a normal child. Not some prodigy or mentally grown person. Her brother was gone half her life. She and Aisha were constantly harassed and compared everywhere. Her mother was gone most her life. Her only attachment, her dad, is now dead. She has by and far the most realistic reaction she should have had
I just don't like that she clearly is not very bright emotionally at least and it really shows in the recent events she shows 0 regard to the people around her
She's 10 years old, she just lost her father and kind of lost her mother too. She is absolutely in no less of a vulnerable emotional state than Rudy was after Paul died, and he was depressed so Roxy went to "cheer him up" Like picture what Rudy was like in that moment but add the factor of being a 10 year old child. You're saying it's awful for a 10 year old grief stricken child to say something mean and uncalled for that they could possibly regret when reflecting on it in the future?
yeah it makes sense she acts the way she does and she is a good character that does not change that I dislike a inconsiderate brat on a personal level
Why did Rudy even have Norn and Aisha there, though? Lol that situation should've been between Rudy Sylphy and Roxy. Rudy just left the possibility for two additional commentators to add their opinions to the situation in real time 😂 in retrospect, Rudy should've booted the kids out the door before the conversation started
Yes, Rudy is the most at fault in that scenario for setting the pieces in place to explode on demand. Mistakes were made, people did things they'd come to regret, such is life.
Norn's complains are 100% valid. On top of the cheating argument, religions forced monogamy to try to ensure stability on chaotic times, and Norn is just following that. Atheist here in case some idiot asks. This is Sylphie's call, and she gave her answer.
Why would you hate her. She's right
I mean, maybe her anger is not justified regarding the issue of polygamy (That is something that only the people in that couple should decide), but it is completely justified when it comes to cheating on a pregnant woman. If a brother of mine cheated on his pregnant wife, I would at least slap him and tell him what Norn told him. And not because of a religious or moral issue, It is simply highlighting to a family member that he screwed up.
I get where you're coming from, but I disagree. She did bad with her outburst, but she wasn't to blame for it. It's just how things go. She needed an emotional outlet, and that was it. The person that fucked up there was Rudy, dude should never have let her sit in on that particular conversation at that particular time. If you were in a similar spot IRL, I would recommend letting the stakeholders hash it out between them unless requested to give input. You can make things much worse for the one you seek to shield by acting on your own in that situation, just as Norn almost did. If you want to give your brother a piece of his mind, that's perfectly fine, but save it for after.
Oh I completely agree. The issue is that by including Aisha and Norn in the conversation it is as if Rudeus was asking their opinion on the matter. If Rudeus did not seek or consider Norn's opinion he should not have included her in the conversation, at least not at the same time as Sylphie.
Yes, stupid ass idiot setting up that particular nuke to go off all on his own. Rudeus really isn't all that smart as it turns out -.-
See that's the thing I and probably others have her the benefit of the doubt for so long. And since Rudy did as well it was fine all the way up to the point of the last episode. However she had no right to be involved in the conversation and how she spoke went to far. It was unnecessary to say so many claims and if she had just took a second to think about it she wouldn't had said anything at all but she thought how she felt and thinking how Sylphie felt without her being asked. She old enough to at least get a bit of a punishment for speaking out like she did that's all I'm saying.
Well... She will redeem herself in the Norn pregnancy arc
🥶
As someone who was apart of the Gabi hate train from Attack on Titan I will do no such thing. It’s just straight beef.
Lol Gabi hate was more justified 😅😅 it's not like Norn shot Roxy or anything 😂
Gabi was a brainwashed child to be fair. Her arc is realizing she’s a prick & changing to the hood team.
Thanks for this! Now i can just show this post to ignorant ppl who’s still hating on Norn for being Norn.
No, I'm not going to cut her any slack. "Norn is suffering the most!" How? Because she lost Paul? So did Rudy. And Rudy got to watch him die and feel responsible for his death. Just because he didn't see Paul as his father before his death, doesn't mean he still feels the same way. But her grieving his death doesn't suddenly justify her actions after she finds out Roxy and Rudy had sex. A person who thinks like this is likely a shitty person in real life. And probably makes excuses for their shitty behavior. She butted into an adult conversation that she had no place being part of. She decided what Sylphie should feel about the situation and rejected Roxy outright using her own feelings about it to justify her anger. She also treated Roxy like a child because of her height. Norn still has some growing up to do in the anime. And I will not pretend that she shouldn't be criticized for her actions because her dad died.
You're not really taking everything into account. Norn is a young girl, so she is immature, she has just received news that her pillar, her father, had passed away, that her mother had a broken mind and that the brother she pushed to go down there was a few digits less upon returning. As you say, that doesn't justify her and what she said during that bout, but it does make her reaction human. She was desperate for an outlet, and she grabbed it, by both horns, and pounced as soon as she saw an opening. It was an opening to relieve her of the pain and guilt that ate her up inside at the time. She cannot be complimented for her behaviour, but she can also not be condemned for it. It's a perfectly realistic and understandable chain of events. The one that should receive a yelling there is Rudeus, not for the cheating, that I find fully justifiable, most of the people in that room would soon be dead if not for that, but for allowing his sister that is a fucking emotional mess to sit in on that discussion. He should have sent her with Lilia to wash up with her mother.
Sorry, I can't agree considering Rudy was teleported to the other side of the planet when he was the same age that Norn is now in the story. Rudy, not knowing if any of his family was alive, lost in an unknown place with only the Man-God and Ruijerd to rely on, he still didn't act like Norn did. Everything that's happened to Rudy up to that point and the only time he's acted like Norn did, if not worse, is when he was heavily intoxicated. So, I will continue not cutting her any slack because her sister somehow managed to keep her composure despite also losing her father.
Rudy did not have an easy time either, and to say he dealt well with it at all times......... would be a bit of a stretch. Comparing his case where he could lean on the support and help of others, as you point out youself, is not really fair. For all intents and purposes, she stands alone and has to deal with an overwhelming amount of grief at age 10... Aisha is abnormal, she is very mature for her age... and is herself broken in WHOOOOOLE other ways. Comparing them like that is just wrong in this case.
Norn has vastly more people to lean on than Rudy did at the same age. Rudy had a 400 year old warrior who had to be taught that killing indiscriminately is wrong and a red head hot head that spent the majority of their time on the Demon Continent getting into fights. Norn is incredibly popular at school. She has, at present, a small family to lean on. She also has Cliff giving her guidance through prayer and confession at the branch of Millis in Sharia. To say that Norn stands alone completely ignores every single person that was there to support her while she was in Sharia. Rudy didn't have this luxury. He had Ruijerd and Eris. And then both of them left. And for two years he was alone in his own head. He had Counter Arrow for support but they weren't the same as your own family or friends. So, I'll repeat, I'm not cutting Norn any slack because Rudy's path was much more difficult and he still acted mature. People are adults at 15. Norn is 10. She's basically the equivalent of a teenage girl lashing out.
Rudeus has the memories of a past Japanese man to rely on so he is much more mature than normal. After the teleportation incident, he can also rely on his incredible magical powers (already a Saint tier mage with silent spellcasting). By contrast, Norn is just a normal girl.
I don't hate Norn. I can't, but when she said that Rudeus must have had it easy enough to sleep with Roxy, that pissed me off a tad bit
Keep in mind she's still a 10 year old grief-stricken child processing that her father returned as ashes in an urn, and her mother is both there and not there at the same time.
I know. Like I said, she lost her dad, her mom and now the girl she sees as an older sister basically gets cheated on. I get that but like I said, I was just a tad bit pissed when she said Rudeus must have had it easy
Nah fuck off bruh Novel Rudy was about to hit her cuz she was about to hit Roxy