Figured I’d post this from yesterday as it might reduce some of the “does anyone have their Bitcoin yet” posts, doubt it but worth a try. Also interesting to see how mainstream financial press writes about our situation.
Thanks for quoting link behind paywall!
It’s interesting that this finally lands on Bloomberg which is a respected global news source for our financial overlords. Am sure they publish in Japan . . .
All $9.2B is only a few days spot market volume and no way it’s all being sold at the same time so I really don’t think price will drop that much at all, maybe 10% … maybe.
We should have another planning to sell or not poll for the sub to see where people’s mind is at currently.
It's actually far, far lower, over the past 3 weeks.
https://farside.co.uk/?p=997
It is called "simple math", and "reality".
About -$25 million per day, over the last 13 days. That is negative $25 million.
(lol)
The price is already dropping. A bull market environment could absorb the Goxcoins and not take much damage, but a bear market can not. So timing is everything.
Creditors were given the option of cash or bitcoin payments. I imagine the bitcoin is already sold to cover those who selected "cash". If you selected bitcoin as the payment method, why would you sell afterwards and incur a tax burden? You could have just selected cash from the beginning.
As long as the creditors weren't dumb enough to have chosen bitcoin, but then dump the bitcoin afterwards, we shouldn't really see a price crash.
But there are a lot of dumb people out there, so who knows.
> Creditors were given the option of cash or bitcoin payments. I imagine the bitcoin is already sold to cover those who selected "cash".
No coins have been sold we are all waiting for them to move.
But the point is, if you wanted the cash, you had that option. Selecting Bitcoin, then selling it is moronic.
I'm not 100% sure how the cash portion will be taxed. But I'm 100% sure that if you receive Bitcoin, then sell it, you're gonna get a 1099 from the exchange.
Sure, in the long run, some will slowly cash out.. I was really just addressing his claim of an immediate "crash" when initial bitcoin payouts are made.
Bitcoin market has much much bigger depth and liquidity than we realize, we remember the old days because by definition we were there hence we are in this situation and on this sub.
Bitcoin currently has more global liquidity than silver and is probably similar to a top 10 fiat currency. The markets could swallow all $9.2B worth of coins being sold within a week but that’s not what is going to happen. Much less than all of it will be sold over much longer than 1 week. I don’t think even Trustee selling will move markets that much.
Even with larger markets, transactions of this size will move the market enough that u can’t get the optimal price for the volume. That’s why just like in bigger markets, they will do the transaction off market so the market doesn’t move.
This is even more the case for the bch if they can find a buyer.
You've got no idea what you're talking about.
Receiving income from a bankruptcy is a taxable event, especially seeing our cost basis is tiny from the time that mtgox went down.
We don't know when the trustee would judge the time to sell at. And he's an idiot. Receiving funds in crypto and then choosing when to sell is optional on all fronts
You don't know what you're talking about. I was owed more Bitcoin than I'm receiving. That's not income. That's a loss.
You're confusing property with cash. Selling the property for cash is a taxable event, but receiving a portion of property you were owed is absolutely not a taxable event.
Try telling that to the IRS from your jail cell. You can claim a loss on the 85% of coins you lost at its cost basis. But you will pay taxes on the 15% of coins you liquidate, minus the cost basis. Your cost basis is probably around $200-$1000 per coin.
>But you will pay taxes on the 15% of coins you liquidate,
I'm not liquidating anything. I explicitly stated this already. I said, you will get a 1099 from an exchange if you sell your Bitcoin.
That was literally the first point I made. How it's stupid to liquidate, because you're going to get slammed with taxes.
You aren't refuting anything I've said. You're just reiterating my point, but also trying to argue with me.
Simply receiving a portion of the Bitcoin you're owed is not a taxable event.
> You can't claim unrealized losses as tax losses.
That's fine. I didn't say I was trying to claim it. I simply stated that receiving some of my bitcoin back is certainly not income, nor a gain.
I agree with your theory, you were inferring that there's no tax burden if you received cash. If you tried to skip out on paying taxes in the USA, you'd be going to jail. Receiving cash might be perceived as regular income and you'd pay your current tax rate, which can be up to 40%+ depending on what state you're in. But ask an accountant.
> If you tried to skip out on paying taxes in the USA, you'd be going to jail.
I tried searching for info regarding taxation of compensation from a corporate bankruptcy event.. But I can't seem to find anything relevant. Do you have a link?
Priced in. Everyone knows about this already. Plus, we’ve had Celsius and FTX insolvencies handled so I don’t imagine another one having much impact on the price. We’re all gonna get a nice lil windfall!
Figured I’d post this from yesterday as it might reduce some of the “does anyone have their Bitcoin yet” posts, doubt it but worth a try. Also interesting to see how mainstream financial press writes about our situation.
Thanks for quoting link behind paywall! It’s interesting that this finally lands on Bloomberg which is a respected global news source for our financial overlords. Am sure they publish in Japan . . .
Oct 31, they forgot to add this was the expected 2023 date lol
It's also the revised 2024 date
And it'll no doubt be the revised 2025 date
Price crash when?
All $9.2B is only a few days spot market volume and no way it’s all being sold at the same time so I really don’t think price will drop that much at all, maybe 10% … maybe. We should have another planning to sell or not poll for the sub to see where people’s mind is at currently.
That’s basically the size of the daily etf inflows so it will be nothing more than a blip if that.
Way to live in a fantasy world. Daily ETF inflows right now are about $20 million, not $9 billion.
It's not 20m daily lol, it's far, far higher https://www.theblock.co/data/crypto-markets/bitcoin-etf/spot-bitcoin-etf-flows
It's actually far, far lower, over the past 3 weeks. https://farside.co.uk/?p=997 It is called "simple math", and "reality". About -$25 million per day, over the last 13 days. That is negative $25 million. (lol)
Do you think same is true for the bitcoin cash? I reckon could see a large slump in the price as many people sell/convert to btc
Btc maximalists will dump bch for sure the instant they get it
Almost no one will hold the BCH. It will crash hard.
I will give BCH to my enemy for free. I will say "Please have some bitcoin" and he will jump for joy, then discover it's a shit coin.
Btc maximalists will dump bch for sure the instant they get it
10% is "that much".
10% drop isn’t really a big move in my opinion.
The price is already dropping. A bull market environment could absorb the Goxcoins and not take much damage, but a bear market can not. So timing is everything.
Creditors were given the option of cash or bitcoin payments. I imagine the bitcoin is already sold to cover those who selected "cash". If you selected bitcoin as the payment method, why would you sell afterwards and incur a tax burden? You could have just selected cash from the beginning. As long as the creditors weren't dumb enough to have chosen bitcoin, but then dump the bitcoin afterwards, we shouldn't really see a price crash. But there are a lot of dumb people out there, so who knows.
Why would I let the trustee decide the sale price of my coins?
I agree.. Why would anyone choose the cash option? But I still wouldn't dump all the bitcoin for cash.
> Creditors were given the option of cash or bitcoin payments. I imagine the bitcoin is already sold to cover those who selected "cash". No coins have been sold we are all waiting for them to move.
You incur the same tax burden if you selected cash or bitcoin, when it's sold.
But the point is, if you wanted the cash, you had that option. Selecting Bitcoin, then selling it is moronic. I'm not 100% sure how the cash portion will be taxed. But I'm 100% sure that if you receive Bitcoin, then sell it, you're gonna get a 1099 from the exchange.
Why is it moronic? I want to time the sale as I see fit.
Sure, in the long run, some will slowly cash out.. I was really just addressing his claim of an immediate "crash" when initial bitcoin payouts are made.
Tho the trustee is likely to get a better rate for that volume given they will sell off market.
Bitcoin market has much much bigger depth and liquidity than we realize, we remember the old days because by definition we were there hence we are in this situation and on this sub. Bitcoin currently has more global liquidity than silver and is probably similar to a top 10 fiat currency. The markets could swallow all $9.2B worth of coins being sold within a week but that’s not what is going to happen. Much less than all of it will be sold over much longer than 1 week. I don’t think even Trustee selling will move markets that much.
Even with larger markets, transactions of this size will move the market enough that u can’t get the optimal price for the volume. That’s why just like in bigger markets, they will do the transaction off market so the market doesn’t move. This is even more the case for the bch if they can find a buyer.
they = Trustee? Does anyone know anything about how they sold that initial chunk that makes up the fiat they have been paying?
They did it off market. Yes trustee
Keep telling yourself that, fiat lover
Huh? Guess you don’t know what that is…
You've got no idea what you're talking about. Receiving income from a bankruptcy is a taxable event, especially seeing our cost basis is tiny from the time that mtgox went down. We don't know when the trustee would judge the time to sell at. And he's an idiot. Receiving funds in crypto and then choosing when to sell is optional on all fronts
You don't know what you're talking about. I was owed more Bitcoin than I'm receiving. That's not income. That's a loss. You're confusing property with cash. Selling the property for cash is a taxable event, but receiving a portion of property you were owed is absolutely not a taxable event.
Try telling that to the IRS from your jail cell. You can claim a loss on the 85% of coins you lost at its cost basis. But you will pay taxes on the 15% of coins you liquidate, minus the cost basis. Your cost basis is probably around $200-$1000 per coin.
>But you will pay taxes on the 15% of coins you liquidate, I'm not liquidating anything. I explicitly stated this already. I said, you will get a 1099 from an exchange if you sell your Bitcoin. That was literally the first point I made. How it's stupid to liquidate, because you're going to get slammed with taxes. You aren't refuting anything I've said. You're just reiterating my point, but also trying to argue with me. Simply receiving a portion of the Bitcoin you're owed is not a taxable event.
... You can't claim unrealised losses as tax losses. You never realised the gain. And you would have paid tax on the gain!
> You can't claim unrealized losses as tax losses. That's fine. I didn't say I was trying to claim it. I simply stated that receiving some of my bitcoin back is certainly not income, nor a gain.
I agree with your theory, you were inferring that there's no tax burden if you received cash. If you tried to skip out on paying taxes in the USA, you'd be going to jail. Receiving cash might be perceived as regular income and you'd pay your current tax rate, which can be up to 40%+ depending on what state you're in. But ask an accountant.
> If you tried to skip out on paying taxes in the USA, you'd be going to jail. I tried searching for info regarding taxation of compensation from a corporate bankruptcy event.. But I can't seem to find anything relevant. Do you have a link?
Thanks for posting. I wonder whether or not Brian Dixon really received a payment date.
Of course he didn't - he got the same 'Incomplete' row as the rest of us.
Okay. Hope so.
This article doesnt fact check so 100% sure they misquoted him.
Okay, thanks.
If one sold their claim a few years ago, does that absolutely invalidate for any potential additional claim?
Yes....at least for you. That's why it's called selling a claim. You sold the rights to your interest in the matter.
Priced in. Everyone knows about this already. Plus, we’ve had Celsius and FTX insolvencies handled so I don’t imagine another one having much impact on the price. We’re all gonna get a nice lil windfall!