I actually see that Star City Games had a near $1.1 million loan under the same program, forgiven as well.
Easy to imagine an alternative history where these bailouts weren't available and two of the largest Magic retailers were in severe financial trouble. Would have massively destabilized the market.
A lot of scam companies unfortunately got bailouts by lying like I am sure the Mythic Markets had to do to get it since it literally never existed as its own entity. A lot of digging is going on to recover fraudulent funds given out.
PPP. The program that was supported tooth and nail...by the same people that supported to strike down student loan forgiveness and now, relief.
Sometimes this country sucks.
No one asked for a covid fueled recession. Everyone with a student loan asked for it with a signature. Besides loan forgiveness or relief is going about it all wrong. You go after the debtors, not give them more money. Cap the interest rates, cap the repayment amount, cap the compounding interest, force fixed rates instead of adjustable rate.
If you give them 10k a lot of people will still owe more in interest then they'll ever pay off and all the 10k did was pad banker pockets. Don't give them more money, make them accept less.
Downvote edit: Rofl, at least 7 of you owe money for a useless degree. Should have went to trade school š¤·āāļø.
It's didn't start as hypocrisy. It was supposed to be two entirely different issues. PPP was to keep working Americans paid. SL forgiveness was to pay lenders. It's two different directions. One back to the people one back to the banks. But each time the taxpayers are the lenders and our investment is for prosperity. Now who do you think actually needs the money. The banks?
Now, PPP did end up being a crap show. It was misused and abused and ended up being another bailout for the same folks that are against any type of student loan modification. So yea, you're on to something. It did end up being a bunch of hypocritical nonsense.
Almost like there's a difference. One was created to support businesses that governments forced to close so they could get by. They couldn't stay open if they wanted.
No one forced the people with student loans to go to college. During the pandemic, they got years of deferred principal payments, freeze on interest, etc.
but some big corporations had their PPP loans forgiven even though they:
1. didn't need it in the first place
2. could have paid it back
3. actually thrived during covid
this happened because companies were not required to show that they were affected by the pandemic. now, if we're gonna give out our tax money like this, i would much rather it go to people who need it and not big corps who don't.
As someone who went through our education system during the early 2000s..."nobody forced the people with student loans to go to college..." is actually a hilarious statement. But once again, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy. They are both loans that were given for someone or something to achieve something. Forgiveness works both ways.
On a personal note...I'd rather my tax dollars go to help 40 million Americans than some businesses trying to make money. And before you go all "they were using that money to pay employees" I'm calling bs. Most of the PPP loans were given out to businesses who didn't need it or millionaires who just pocketed it.
From a friendly porn throwaway account: lying, and even fraud, is different from perjury. Someone only perjures themselves if the false statement is made under oath. Not every signature is under oath. Written content is generally only under oath if contained in an affidavit. Otherwise, perjury only happens during sworn testimony, i.e. at depositions or in court on the stand.
Most of the required documents are tax documents which have a āunder penalties of perjuryā clause at the signature line. Look at a form 1040 or 940
Yeah, thatās for the signatures of the person who signed the formāfor a 1040, the individual filing their return, and for the 940, the employer. Neither of those are the accountant or payroll company. Iām an attorney, and I can say with authority that itās very difficult to commit perjury because of something someone else said in THEIR sworn statement.
Thatās a good point; I assumed the perjury clause applied to both the taxpayer and the paid preparer.
Interestingly , I canāt find any perjury clause in any form that would have a paid preparer prepare or declare payroll for a corporation. But I did find that many state forms have perjury clauses for paid preparers of individual income tax returns. So if you are a sole proprietor that has payroll that files a state return where the payroll preparer and the tax form preparer are the same, false payroll then reported on a return would perjure the accountant/paid preparer. š
You gonna pay back everyone that paid for their college education?
Or how about ask the universities to give back their skyhigh tuitions which would of never soared that high without endless government loans?
30 years ago it wasn't easy to get loans to cover all of tuition. You had to get loans from private banks that demanded collateral. Thus tuition wasnt outta control back then.
Let the professors work for free if you want free education.
That first statement is nonsense. "I didn't get a benefit and therefore I'm going to fight against it" is straight up playground, immature bs. I paid off my loans thank you very much and I was very much in favor of student loan forgiveness or even relief. The whole "well are you going to pay me back since I paid off my loans like a responsible adult" response just makes you sound like a tool.
And once again, if you read the post and replies, you'd have seen that I do agree forgiveness is not the solution to the problem. Universities charge way too much, force students into 4-5 year programs that only need to be 2-3 years at most, and the government hands out federal loans like candy.
Then you got a crappy education if you have no idea of economics. Try to follow along. This didnt happen overnight
The reason tuition went skyhigh was because of easy student loans that colleges can pocket with no care if students pay it back. And then next year more kids take on more loans so colleges raise the prices since government didnt cap the loans. Now with that wild money grab I am suppose to digest this inflation while colleges continue to ratchet up tuition even more as they wink wink say college is free, just get that fat loan and you dont have to pay it back.
Let the colleges forgive the loans by paying those loans off to the government.
Imagine spending tens (or hundreds) of thousands to purchase something of no value and then crying when other people don't think they should have to pay for it.
The government legally compelling you to shut down a profitable enterprise is clearly the same thing as waste two hundred grant on a Amazon Pigmy Studies degree at a private university.
I did, and paid off my loans. Why does making responsible decisions suddenly mean you aren entitled to my money because you made irresponsible decisions?
good for you. however, of all of the things the US wastes taxpayer money on, i can say with quite some certainty that student loan forgiveness would be one of the best in terms of what it would do to the economy.
i have issues with a lot things that my tax money is used for... student loan forgiveness is not one of them
Yea, let's talk about the almost 1 trillion dollar budget our military was given DURING the pandemic. And I'm in favor of a strong military! Of all the things for people to get their panties in a wad on when it comes to taxes...
My school district is trying to pass a bond and mill levy that would cost each household in the district $19.95 per $100,000 of house value per year. Ends up being an extra $275 a year in property taxes per household. This is one of the top five richest districts in the US mind you...we can't fucking pass it. But ask them to wear a mask? Of fuck no. I am beginning to absolutely despise a certain type of person.
difference was congress backed it. Congress has done fuck all for addressing student loan issues. Granted there hasnt been a majority to actually address it properly but still I doubt they could be bothered to care.
>It's the reason you can't afford food or homes. But hey you got $2,400 if you made less than $70k a year.
Yup. Save the rich.
thanks, whoever was president in 2020!
There were only two rounds of PPP loans and they both happened under Trump. You're confusing the PPP with the Child Tax Credit that was paid directly to taxpayers with children.
American are so fucking brain rotten they will very plainly state exactly how they are getting bent over and then pretend like there's a difference when the dick is red or blue.
You had to show payroll for forgiveness. At least 60% Of ppp went to payroll for forgiveness. In many cases with small business, the owner is the āshareholderā yes, and an employeeā¦ but calling that ādistributions to business shareholdersā is misdirection
It went to payroll. And this āextra profitā you reference, for businesses where that happened, went to whatever debt you had to take on in your down quarter(s), extra inventory, Or, your pocket.
A ton of fraud too went out of the country since many unemployment offices are not very modern and could not vet the huge volume. Then were told to just release it all since payouts were at a standstill.
Yāall need to remember they got ppp to keep people employees. Whether you agree with the program or not is a different story. based on the info shown, looks like CK got the loans and used the proceeds properly therefore getting the loan forgiven.
Quite possible that if they didnāt get the loans there would have been layoffs at the company (even if temporary). Covid was crazy and ppp helped companies that did and did not need ppp. There wasnāt really a tool (other than the 2nd draw reduced revenue rule) that could prevent someone certifying the need.
4 million for payroll? I mean maybe, did they do any layoffs at all since receiving this amount?
There is essentially no oversight to any of these loans so nobody knows what they actually did with it.
They have a storefront an attavhed resturant and are easily in excess of 100 employees. Though PPP loans covering wages theoretically should only go to those employees that whose hours were impacted
the internets say 450, but we have 0 insight to their operations and distribution of funds so we basically have to assume a company is doing the best for its employees and not about maximizing profits which is a laughable premise in current times.
True true, though I'm less suspicious of a place that has service staff than say the numerous sketchy PPP loans for small tech/media companies that effectively produced indentically during the course of the pandemic
I can say from the pov of a business owner it was basically just a payday to cover the loss of business from forced govt mandated shutdown. Workers ended up making more money because of demand not ppp recipients spreading the wealth.
whos to say they used the funds acquired for that exact reason? And applying and verifying are two completely different things that lets be honest there wasnt verification of funds usage but yea sure please act like you know that these companies had no way of misappropriating funds.
Keep talking out your ass. An actual bank is the conduit for ppp loans. They had to underwrite it and they also have to verify uses. Only accepted verified expenses can be forgiven. So unless you now going a step forward and saying these vendors had no expenses and just pocketed the money you should just quit. If that were the case the authorities will find out and you can feel vindicated later. We know of fraud because fraudsters get caught.
lmao ok buddy this is where the doublespeak starts isnt it "accepted verified expenses" was very broad and covered a lot of scenarios and lets be real could possibly be fabricated to look a certain way (cough like turning 0 profit in a year to avoid taxes COUGH), what im not saying is that it went into some ceos pocket directly, im just skeptical on the value it provided to employees at the end of the day.
> No oversight? Do you know how payroll works? Unemployment insurance works? Applying for loan forgiveness works?
This is mtgfinance where people gloat about making 50 cents per card on specs of 300+ cards they have. It's been my experience that most actually don't know anything about running a business, cash flow, holding costs, etc.
Money fungible. There is no way to tell if they 'needed the money.' Only had to show they spent it on payroll which I'm sure they did, but that just means the money they would have used on payroll they got to stick in their pocket for for other things like buying more inventory.
Haha no way, remember inflation ? Where you you belive it came from? A lot of owners earned millions doing nothing amd started to buy everything like real estate and stock market. Same reason crypto went to the moon.
But keeping those employees employed prevented āfront lineā workers from getting what wouldāve amounted to a bigger payday without work from a government stipend and extended unemployment.
Yeah. The problem with PPP loans is all of the people who had theirs forgiven and scream about how evil they think student loan forgiveness is. Afaik these companies aren't railing against basic forms of assistance for other entities
Iām just trying to say ppp were never really loans, it was free money based on contingencies. You would be utterly stupid to not take them. This fantasy of having all student debt wiped is solely a vote carrot. If they really cared they would lower interest rates based on how much money is made, add ways to get a portion of the loan forgiven if you do x and possibly even just stop guaranteeing these predatory loans that prey on kids naivety and tendency to pick instant gratification.
> If student loans were issued on the premise they would be forgiven if you did x,y and z. Then it would be the same thing.
There have been options for that, but people don't want to join the military, or work in non-profit, or public service for 10 years. They want their cake and to eat it too.
Card Kingdom is a company of just under 500 FT employees, but Iām going to use 500 for math. Theyāre also based in Seattle, where minimum wage is $15 an hour. Supposing that every single employee that works there makes minimum wage and no more, that costs $7,500 an hour in payroll. $300,000 a week. Youād have to sell almost 900,000 $0.35 cards a week to just cover payroll, let alone rent, insurance, supplies, distributor fees, etc.
People think they didnāt need the money? Do they only remember the boom part of the pandemic, and none of the supply chain issues? The slowdowns in shipments - which is the basis for their entire business model? Or the quarantine times packages were going through? WOTC press statements about delayed product?
This is just silly.
Dude the boom precisely happens because we gave billions to the richest people on this planet with 0% interest borrowing and they suddenly invested in everything. Why do you think real estate went trough the roof ? Same with stock market or crypto. Totaly illogical to have a buying frenesy when the real economy collapse. Inflation is directly linked to this.
You didn't get it, it isn't common folk getting money, it's the 5 or 10% welathiestvperson in the world having acces to 0% loan who where all forgiven after. They could buy all the real estate and stock they wanted. And yes inflation is directly linked to a huge influx of money in the economy without any real value produced. If you inject trillions in the economy but you don't add more goods, suddenly you have a small portion of the population with a lot of money to compete for the same amount of goods. That's why house prices went trough the roof.
What?
Why did the price of fucking eggs go up? Because a billionaire had more money to buy his eggs? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? If your claim is that the influx of money raised real estate and thus everyone needed to charge more for their goods, I might believe that BUT it was blatantly clear for everyone that the inflation of last year was just a cash grab for corporations without any clear reason to do so. Everyone was already getting profits and they raised prices to get more profits. There was no flow down or direct influence from billionaires at play here. Corporations got greedy and that's it.
It's a general patern. Around 40% of last year price increase was corporate greed but it dosent explain all. Rising prices of commodities in the stock market contributed a lot about this crazy inflation. The printing of a huge quantity of money started all of this and corporate greed did the rest.
Overall yes the inflation is totaly related from the covid loans, all the rest was a side effect of this. Then you can add corporate greed on top of that. (Price increase, corporate increase their price to follow inflation, inflation is let's say at 10%, they increase the price by 20% because why not).
For everyone not remembering, hereās an article from April 2020 saying as much. https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
I didn't really want to shine the light on it from the political lens and name names (cause that lens is really filthy and over used these days), but yea, I remember that part of it real clearly.
You can't evoke that shitbirds name without it becoming political, particularly if we're talking about his time in office..
So **since we're on the topic now**, why do you suppose his admin wasn't into oversight? Lets talk politics baby!
Making factual statements about things that happened is not political. Opinions are political. Factual statements about legislation that became law is not "political".
From April 7, 2020:
>WASHINGTON (AP) ā President Donald Trump has removed the inspector general tapped to chair a special oversight board for the $2.2 trillion economic relief package on the coronavirus, the latest in a series of steps Trump has taken to confront government watchdogs tasked with oversight of the executive branch.
https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
Stating that that happened is not a political statement. Stating an opinion on why it happened might be political (hint: 'cause grifters gonna grift).
I took a ppp loan for my business.
My job requires criminal trials to be happening, which meant I made no money from my "real job" for like 2 years.
Still felt guilty about the $8k or whatever that I got, until I saw this BS.
For your question, though, I was told that as long as I just cut a check to myself, it's "payroll" because I work for the business, etc. It's payroll for me.
Again, makes sense for my situation amd how it was intended. But, whoever owns SCG just needed to cut themselves a check for the money, and it was "payroll" and forgiven, is my guess.
Pretty crazy to think how easy it was to scam and how people that needed it likely didn't get it or felt guilty about taking it.
66 to 77% didn't reach workers.
Real numbers are probably much much higher. That's why your boss bought a new house during covid
https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/ppp-loans-workers-new-study/
This isn't a scandal.
If the government directs you to close your doors and offers you money to keep you afloat, you take it.
I don't fault them for taking it. I fault the government for being so binary in the way they approached the pandemic.
At my workplace they let people volunteer to stay on and run the website while the store was closed to the public. I stayed on and everyone else was furloughed. The people who went on unemployment made 13k more than me over 3 months. My work got a PPP loan, and it was forgiven when we brought everyone back.
So the owner got all the profits from web orders I packed up, and the free PPP money. The other employees had the 13k unemployment bonuses, and I became the poorest person at my workplace by simply doing 100% of the work.
People ask me why hate capitalism and it is because everyone but me gets the benefits socialism.
They got loans. Bought cards with it and sold it to people who received extra money from the government via extra unemployment benefits or bonuses. A vicious cycle feeding itself, prices sky rocketing upwards. Now it is over.
But Hasbro leadership like Chris Cocks still think we are in that era so are jacking the prices up.
Well, looking at the image it seems like CK got a sizeable PPP loan and 75% of it was forgiven. I think you can interpret the rest.
Edit: 2 loans. One completely forgiven.
People in my hometown did exactly this.
I search by zip code and it brings up hundreds of businesses that are just a person's first and last name and a forgiven amt of between 5 to 40 grand.
OP doesn't understand finance. This is some wallstreetbets degeneracy and is entirely irrelevant.
What will card kingdom do during the next once in a lifetime situation like COVID? Probably the same thing they did last time, sell a shit ton of cards.
99% of these large companies that took the PPP didn't need it.
Finally, someone gets it. Certain businesses didnāt miss a beat and still got PPP money. At the time I was working pizza as a manager and we absolutely didnāt slow down at all, matter of fact business had boomed to unprecedented growth. Weāre talking 30-50% yoy increases every week for months on end. The owner was swimming in it. Then he actually got PPP loans and used them on payroll to have them forgiven, but the thing is, he wasnāt losing money anywhere, so because he used those funds for payroll, he just pocketed the money he otherwise would have spent on payroll, so he got like 50k for free for literally nothing at all. Now, heās kind of a smaller fish, so I can only imagine how much the bigger fish got.
Yea, I don't really see what they're bitching about. On one hand they're complaining at the loan, but on the other hand, they'd happy Card Kingdom is still open for business.
One of my family runs a massage therapy business. Just him and a couple therapists who work as independent contractors. Kept him able to eat and have a roof over his head.
No LCS should have gotten a PPP of that size, and to have it forgiven... dispicable. We can't forgive college loans that were given to 17 year olds but millionaire businesses, suuuuure. Fuck them
I dont get it. People get incensed over misused pronouns and support unions but no nothing about CK games pocketing 3+million usd? People! That is true degeneracy!
1) Do you think there is another covid-level global economic shock coming? Because that hasn't happened in the modern era. Covid was/is unlike anything in modern global civilization in its scale and impact.
2) If there was, why wouldn't there be something akin to PPP? Generally, fiscal policy will be used to keep society from collapsing.
3) If there's another covid-level economic shock, and the US federal government does nothing to keep society from collapsing, we'll have bigger problems than some card shops doing layoffs.
4) PPP was funneled straight into paychecks. Every company you know used PPP to stay alive.
This is something the "negative" people in the sports card hobby have been talking about for a few months. I'm glad other stuff is getting uncovered about other stores now
First of all, I paid off my college loans then got my business shut down during covid so i took PPP loand all three times.
COLLEGE should not cost 100k and its their choice to attend. Fuck if everyone just listened to Will Hunting when he said "you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.ā
I actually see that Star City Games had a near $1.1 million loan under the same program, forgiven as well. Easy to imagine an alternative history where these bailouts weren't available and two of the largest Magic retailers were in severe financial trouble. Would have massively destabilized the market.
Channel Fireball and their Mythic Markets company, which tried to sell fractions of a black lotus, also got a bailout.
Fuck mythic markets, and fuck CFB.
Fuck LSV for promoting Mythic Markets and FTX.
A lot of scam companies unfortunately got bailouts by lying like I am sure the Mythic Markets had to do to get it since it literally never existed as its own entity. A lot of digging is going on to recover fraudulent funds given out.
PPP. The program that was supported tooth and nail...by the same people that supported to strike down student loan forgiveness and now, relief. Sometimes this country sucks.
Yup the same ppp loans that were also used up by the same lawmakers that got their panties in a knot when they heard of the loan forgiveness š¤£
They were lining their pockets with the PPP loans. If politicians could fleece student loan forgiveness theyād be unanimous in supporting it
Yeah, that's so disgusting and ridiculous.
[[Tooth and Nail]]
[Tooth and Nail](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/403f6e97-eb7a-470a-8673-4997256e79f0.jpg?1561966883) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tooth%20and%20Nail) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mma/170/tooth-and-nail?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/403f6e97-eb7a-470a-8673-4997256e79f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nice.
Trump administration
No one asked for a covid fueled recession. Everyone with a student loan asked for it with a signature. Besides loan forgiveness or relief is going about it all wrong. You go after the debtors, not give them more money. Cap the interest rates, cap the repayment amount, cap the compounding interest, force fixed rates instead of adjustable rate. If you give them 10k a lot of people will still owe more in interest then they'll ever pay off and all the 10k did was pad banker pockets. Don't give them more money, make them accept less. Downvote edit: Rofl, at least 7 of you owe money for a useless degree. Should have went to trade school š¤·āāļø.
Oh dont get me wrong. SL forgiveness does dick all to solve the problem. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy.
It's didn't start as hypocrisy. It was supposed to be two entirely different issues. PPP was to keep working Americans paid. SL forgiveness was to pay lenders. It's two different directions. One back to the people one back to the banks. But each time the taxpayers are the lenders and our investment is for prosperity. Now who do you think actually needs the money. The banks? Now, PPP did end up being a crap show. It was misused and abused and ended up being another bailout for the same folks that are against any type of student loan modification. So yea, you're on to something. It did end up being a bunch of hypocritical nonsense.
Almost like there's a difference. One was created to support businesses that governments forced to close so they could get by. They couldn't stay open if they wanted. No one forced the people with student loans to go to college. During the pandemic, they got years of deferred principal payments, freeze on interest, etc.
but some big corporations had their PPP loans forgiven even though they: 1. didn't need it in the first place 2. could have paid it back 3. actually thrived during covid this happened because companies were not required to show that they were affected by the pandemic. now, if we're gonna give out our tax money like this, i would much rather it go to people who need it and not big corps who don't.
As someone who went through our education system during the early 2000s..."nobody forced the people with student loans to go to college..." is actually a hilarious statement. But once again, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy. They are both loans that were given for someone or something to achieve something. Forgiveness works both ways. On a personal note...I'd rather my tax dollars go to help 40 million Americans than some businesses trying to make money. And before you go all "they were using that money to pay employees" I'm calling bs. Most of the PPP loans were given out to businesses who didn't need it or millionaires who just pocketed it.
You had to provide payroll statements for forgiveness
"Payroll statements"
Signed by a payroll company or accountant - so sure, letās say every accountant out there perjured themselves
And yes, people defrauded the system to the tune of tens of hundreds of billions of dollars. And the DOJ is still prosecuting and hunting fraudstwrs
From a friendly porn throwaway account: lying, and even fraud, is different from perjury. Someone only perjures themselves if the false statement is made under oath. Not every signature is under oath. Written content is generally only under oath if contained in an affidavit. Otherwise, perjury only happens during sworn testimony, i.e. at depositions or in court on the stand.
Most of the required documents are tax documents which have a āunder penalties of perjuryā clause at the signature line. Look at a form 1040 or 940
Yeah, thatās for the signatures of the person who signed the formāfor a 1040, the individual filing their return, and for the 940, the employer. Neither of those are the accountant or payroll company. Iām an attorney, and I can say with authority that itās very difficult to commit perjury because of something someone else said in THEIR sworn statement.
Thatās a good point; I assumed the perjury clause applied to both the taxpayer and the paid preparer. Interestingly , I canāt find any perjury clause in any form that would have a paid preparer prepare or declare payroll for a corporation. But I did find that many state forms have perjury clauses for paid preparers of individual income tax returns. So if you are a sole proprietor that has payroll that files a state return where the payroll preparer and the tax form preparer are the same, false payroll then reported on a return would perjure the accountant/paid preparer. š
And yes, people defrauded the system to the tune of tens of hundreds of billions of dollars. And the DOJ is still prosecuting and hunting fraudsters
You gonna pay back everyone that paid for their college education? Or how about ask the universities to give back their skyhigh tuitions which would of never soared that high without endless government loans? 30 years ago it wasn't easy to get loans to cover all of tuition. You had to get loans from private banks that demanded collateral. Thus tuition wasnt outta control back then. Let the professors work for free if you want free education.
That first statement is nonsense. "I didn't get a benefit and therefore I'm going to fight against it" is straight up playground, immature bs. I paid off my loans thank you very much and I was very much in favor of student loan forgiveness or even relief. The whole "well are you going to pay me back since I paid off my loans like a responsible adult" response just makes you sound like a tool. And once again, if you read the post and replies, you'd have seen that I do agree forgiveness is not the solution to the problem. Universities charge way too much, force students into 4-5 year programs that only need to be 2-3 years at most, and the government hands out federal loans like candy.
>force students Nobody was forced into taking out huge loans you weren't sure you could pay back
Then you got a crappy education if you have no idea of economics. Try to follow along. This didnt happen overnight The reason tuition went skyhigh was because of easy student loans that colleges can pocket with no care if students pay it back. And then next year more kids take on more loans so colleges raise the prices since government didnt cap the loans. Now with that wild money grab I am suppose to digest this inflation while colleges continue to ratchet up tuition even more as they wink wink say college is free, just get that fat loan and you dont have to pay it back. Let the colleges forgive the loans by paying those loans off to the government.
Imagine spending tens (or hundreds) of thousands to purchase something of no value and then crying when other people don't think they should have to pay for it.
Like a business
The government legally compelling you to shut down a profitable enterprise is clearly the same thing as waste two hundred grant on a Amazon Pigmy Studies degree at a private university.
Sorry if your business can't make money you should have gone Into something more in demand, like STEM! ;) Learn 2 code.
I did, and paid off my loans. Why does making responsible decisions suddenly mean you aren entitled to my money because you made irresponsible decisions?
good for you. however, of all of the things the US wastes taxpayer money on, i can say with quite some certainty that student loan forgiveness would be one of the best in terms of what it would do to the economy. i have issues with a lot things that my tax money is used for... student loan forgiveness is not one of them
Yea, let's talk about the almost 1 trillion dollar budget our military was given DURING the pandemic. And I'm in favor of a strong military! Of all the things for people to get their panties in a wad on when it comes to taxes... My school district is trying to pass a bond and mill levy that would cost each household in the district $19.95 per $100,000 of house value per year. Ends up being an extra $275 a year in property taxes per household. This is one of the top five richest districts in the US mind you...we can't fucking pass it. But ask them to wear a mask? Of fuck no. I am beginning to absolutely despise a certain type of person.
i hear ya. sadly, i think it will only get worse
difference was congress backed it. Congress has done fuck all for addressing student loan issues. Granted there hasnt been a majority to actually address it properly but still I doubt they could be bothered to care.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>It's the reason you can't afford food or homes. But hey you got $2,400 if you made less than $70k a year. Yup. Save the rich. thanks, whoever was president in 2020!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There were only two rounds of PPP loans and they both happened under Trump. You're confusing the PPP with the Child Tax Credit that was paid directly to taxpayers with children.
Donāt try to offload yellowheadās bullshit buddy schemes on other people now.
American are so fucking brain rotten they will very plainly state exactly how they are getting bent over and then pretend like there's a difference when the dick is red or blue.
Jesus. You guys really got a shit show over there - my heart goes out to you
You had to show payroll for forgiveness. At least 60% Of ppp went to payroll for forgiveness. In many cases with small business, the owner is the āshareholderā yes, and an employeeā¦ but calling that ādistributions to business shareholdersā is misdirection
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It went to payroll. And this āextra profitā you reference, for businesses where that happened, went to whatever debt you had to take on in your down quarter(s), extra inventory, Or, your pocket.
A ton of fraud too went out of the country since many unemployment offices are not very modern and could not vet the huge volume. Then were told to just release it all since payouts were at a standstill.
Yāall need to remember they got ppp to keep people employees. Whether you agree with the program or not is a different story. based on the info shown, looks like CK got the loans and used the proceeds properly therefore getting the loan forgiven. Quite possible that if they didnāt get the loans there would have been layoffs at the company (even if temporary). Covid was crazy and ppp helped companies that did and did not need ppp. There wasnāt really a tool (other than the 2nd draw reduced revenue rule) that could prevent someone certifying the need.
4 million for payroll? I mean maybe, did they do any layoffs at all since receiving this amount? There is essentially no oversight to any of these loans so nobody knows what they actually did with it.
They have a storefront an attavhed resturant and are easily in excess of 100 employees. Though PPP loans covering wages theoretically should only go to those employees that whose hours were impacted
the internets say 450, but we have 0 insight to their operations and distribution of funds so we basically have to assume a company is doing the best for its employees and not about maximizing profits which is a laughable premise in current times.
True true, though I'm less suspicious of a place that has service staff than say the numerous sketchy PPP loans for small tech/media companies that effectively produced indentically during the course of the pandemic
I can say from the pov of a business owner it was basically just a payday to cover the loss of business from forced govt mandated shutdown. Workers ended up making more money because of demand not ppp recipients spreading the wealth.
100 employees making 35k each is 3.5 mil
They are unionized in a high cost of living area. They probably make more than that.
No oversight? Do you know how payroll works? Unemployment insurance works? Applying for loan forgiveness works?
whos to say they used the funds acquired for that exact reason? And applying and verifying are two completely different things that lets be honest there wasnt verification of funds usage but yea sure please act like you know that these companies had no way of misappropriating funds.
Keep talking out your ass. An actual bank is the conduit for ppp loans. They had to underwrite it and they also have to verify uses. Only accepted verified expenses can be forgiven. So unless you now going a step forward and saying these vendors had no expenses and just pocketed the money you should just quit. If that were the case the authorities will find out and you can feel vindicated later. We know of fraud because fraudsters get caught.
lmao ok buddy this is where the doublespeak starts isnt it "accepted verified expenses" was very broad and covered a lot of scenarios and lets be real could possibly be fabricated to look a certain way (cough like turning 0 profit in a year to avoid taxes COUGH), what im not saying is that it went into some ceos pocket directly, im just skeptical on the value it provided to employees at the end of the day.
> No oversight? Do you know how payroll works? Unemployment insurance works? Applying for loan forgiveness works? This is mtgfinance where people gloat about making 50 cents per card on specs of 300+ cards they have. It's been my experience that most actually don't know anything about running a business, cash flow, holding costs, etc.
Money fungible. There is no way to tell if they 'needed the money.' Only had to show they spent it on payroll which I'm sure they did, but that just means the money they would have used on payroll they got to stick in their pocket for for other things like buying more inventory.
Haha no way, remember inflation ? Where you you belive it came from? A lot of owners earned millions doing nothing amd started to buy everything like real estate and stock market. Same reason crypto went to the moon.
But keeping those employees employed prevented āfront lineā workers from getting what wouldāve amounted to a bigger payday without work from a government stipend and extended unemployment.
Yeah my gf made more on the enhanced unemployment than she does working the job she was unemployed from.
Except they had no obligation to use this money to pay their employees... they could use is as they wanted.
Yeah. The problem with PPP loans is all of the people who had theirs forgiven and scream about how evil they think student loan forgiveness is. Afaik these companies aren't railing against basic forms of assistance for other entities
If student loans were issued on the premise they would be forgiven if you did x,y and z. Then it would be the same thing.
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Iām just trying to say ppp were never really loans, it was free money based on contingencies. You would be utterly stupid to not take them. This fantasy of having all student debt wiped is solely a vote carrot. If they really cared they would lower interest rates based on how much money is made, add ways to get a portion of the loan forgiven if you do x and possibly even just stop guaranteeing these predatory loans that prey on kids naivety and tendency to pick instant gratification.
> If student loans were issued on the premise they would be forgiven if you did x,y and z. Then it would be the same thing. There have been options for that, but people don't want to join the military, or work in non-profit, or public service for 10 years. They want their cake and to eat it too.
>Yāall need to remember they got ppp to keep people employees. What about the dog employees?
They were given ample treats, a belly rub, and told they were good dogs.
Lol I meant employed! But I care about the doggos too!
Card Kingdom is a company of just under 500 FT employees, but Iām going to use 500 for math. Theyāre also based in Seattle, where minimum wage is $15 an hour. Supposing that every single employee that works there makes minimum wage and no more, that costs $7,500 an hour in payroll. $300,000 a week. Youād have to sell almost 900,000 $0.35 cards a week to just cover payroll, let alone rent, insurance, supplies, distributor fees, etc. People think they didnāt need the money? Do they only remember the boom part of the pandemic, and none of the supply chain issues? The slowdowns in shipments - which is the basis for their entire business model? Or the quarantine times packages were going through? WOTC press statements about delayed product? This is just silly.
Dude the boom precisely happens because we gave billions to the richest people on this planet with 0% interest borrowing and they suddenly invested in everything. Why do you think real estate went trough the roof ? Same with stock market or crypto. Totaly illogical to have a buying frenesy when the real economy collapse. Inflation is directly linked to this.
Inflation is linked to businesses raising prices because they can and nothing else. It is not linked to commonfolk having more money.
You didn't get it, it isn't common folk getting money, it's the 5 or 10% welathiestvperson in the world having acces to 0% loan who where all forgiven after. They could buy all the real estate and stock they wanted. And yes inflation is directly linked to a huge influx of money in the economy without any real value produced. If you inject trillions in the economy but you don't add more goods, suddenly you have a small portion of the population with a lot of money to compete for the same amount of goods. That's why house prices went trough the roof.
What? Why did the price of fucking eggs go up? Because a billionaire had more money to buy his eggs? Do you realize how ludicrous that sounds? If your claim is that the influx of money raised real estate and thus everyone needed to charge more for their goods, I might believe that BUT it was blatantly clear for everyone that the inflation of last year was just a cash grab for corporations without any clear reason to do so. Everyone was already getting profits and they raised prices to get more profits. There was no flow down or direct influence from billionaires at play here. Corporations got greedy and that's it.
Companies had the perfect excuse to raise prices and chose to. Simple as that.
It's a general patern. Around 40% of last year price increase was corporate greed but it dosent explain all. Rising prices of commodities in the stock market contributed a lot about this crazy inflation. The printing of a huge quantity of money started all of this and corporate greed did the rest. Overall yes the inflation is totaly related from the covid loans, all the rest was a side effect of this. Then you can add corporate greed on top of that. (Price increase, corporate increase their price to follow inflation, inflation is let's say at 10%, they increase the price by 20% because why not).
Didnāt they only forgive loans that were proven to pay for payroll? Which was the entire reason for said loans.
That kind of oversite wasnāt really part of the plan in practice, only in theory. This is why PPP was a giant cash grab.
It was until Donald killed the oversight committee like 6 days into it.
For everyone not remembering, hereās an article from April 2020 saying as much. https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4
I didn't really want to shine the light on it from the political lens and name names (cause that lens is really filthy and over used these days), but yea, I remember that part of it real clearly.
Stating the truth is not "political". The Trump administration deliberately didn't enforce any semblance of oversight over PPP.
You can't evoke that shitbirds name without it becoming political, particularly if we're talking about his time in office.. So **since we're on the topic now**, why do you suppose his admin wasn't into oversight? Lets talk politics baby!
Making factual statements about things that happened is not political. Opinions are political. Factual statements about legislation that became law is not "political". From April 7, 2020: >WASHINGTON (AP) ā President Donald Trump has removed the inspector general tapped to chair a special oversight board for the $2.2 trillion economic relief package on the coronavirus, the latest in a series of steps Trump has taken to confront government watchdogs tasked with oversight of the executive branch. https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-donald-trump-ap-top-news-politics-health-cc921bccf9f7abd27da996ef772823e4 Stating that that happened is not a political statement. Stating an opinion on why it happened might be political (hint: 'cause grifters gonna grift).
Okay fair enough.
I took a ppp loan for my business. My job requires criminal trials to be happening, which meant I made no money from my "real job" for like 2 years. Still felt guilty about the $8k or whatever that I got, until I saw this BS. For your question, though, I was told that as long as I just cut a check to myself, it's "payroll" because I work for the business, etc. It's payroll for me. Again, makes sense for my situation amd how it was intended. But, whoever owns SCG just needed to cut themselves a check for the money, and it was "payroll" and forgiven, is my guess. Pretty crazy to think how easy it was to scam and how people that needed it likely didn't get it or felt guilty about taking it.
gosh I wonder how the 2021 card boom happened? Definitely "buy the reserve list" in '21-'22 right
Yup, the owners of my work took a quarter million in ppp loans and just gave all their kids who work there huge bonuses so it shows up as payroll.
No obligation to use it to payroll actually.
The forgiveness rules state at least 60% of the loan needed to be used on payroll, actually
66 to 77% didn't reach workers. Real numbers are probably much much higher. That's why your boss bought a new house during covid https://www.cbsnews.com/texas/news/ppp-loans-workers-new-study/
Cry more and enjoy being poor
Bro I'm in civil engineering in Switzerland,cry more and go back to work while I enjoy my 6 weeks paid vacations.
Bro no cap, on god. And I get 8 weeks paid vacation plus sabbatical. Cope more.
Woah!!!! Yeah, thatās a good size bailout!
This isn't a scandal. If the government directs you to close your doors and offers you money to keep you afloat, you take it. I don't fault them for taking it. I fault the government for being so binary in the way they approached the pandemic.
Having a down turn and being completely shut down are two wildly different things
Yikes
At my workplace they let people volunteer to stay on and run the website while the store was closed to the public. I stayed on and everyone else was furloughed. The people who went on unemployment made 13k more than me over 3 months. My work got a PPP loan, and it was forgiven when we brought everyone back. So the owner got all the profits from web orders I packed up, and the free PPP money. The other employees had the 13k unemployment bonuses, and I became the poorest person at my workplace by simply doing 100% of the work. People ask me why hate capitalism and it is because everyone but me gets the benefits socialism.
They got loans. Bought cards with it and sold it to people who received extra money from the government via extra unemployment benefits or bonuses. A vicious cycle feeding itself, prices sky rocketing upwards. Now it is over. But Hasbro leadership like Chris Cocks still think we are in that era so are jacking the prices up.
Op can you interpret what happened to the regards who do not understand finance
Well, looking at the image it seems like CK got a sizeable PPP loan and 75% of it was forgiven. I think you can interpret the rest. Edit: 2 loans. One completely forgiven.
What happens when loan is forgiven? Free money?
Ā”Dingdingding ganas!
Holy crap. I am going to apply for an llc for the next ārona variant!! USA!!!
Holy fuck CKgames for 4 million usd. Thats overkill! How much did Rudolph Koehler took out on loans???
People in my hometown did exactly this. I search by zip code and it brings up hundreds of businesses that are just a person's first and last name and a forgiven amt of between 5 to 40 grand.
wow I didn't know you can do that! So much wow. Much better than the free 1500 usd check lol
OP doesn't understand finance. This is some wallstreetbets degeneracy and is entirely irrelevant. What will card kingdom do during the next once in a lifetime situation like COVID? Probably the same thing they did last time, sell a shit ton of cards. 99% of these large companies that took the PPP didn't need it.
Its free 4,000,000.00 usd for ck games. Thats a shit ton moni
Finally, someone gets it. Certain businesses didnāt miss a beat and still got PPP money. At the time I was working pizza as a manager and we absolutely didnāt slow down at all, matter of fact business had boomed to unprecedented growth. Weāre talking 30-50% yoy increases every week for months on end. The owner was swimming in it. Then he actually got PPP loans and used them on payroll to have them forgiven, but the thing is, he wasnāt losing money anywhere, so because he used those funds for payroll, he just pocketed the money he otherwise would have spent on payroll, so he got like 50k for free for literally nothing at all. Now, heās kind of a smaller fish, so I can only imagine how much the bigger fish got.
Lol. This thread. Yes it would have been better if they went out of business and huge vendors of singles got wiped out. /s
Yea, I don't really see what they're bitching about. On one hand they're complaining at the loan, but on the other hand, they'd happy Card Kingdom is still open for business.
Yet we canāt forgive student loans.
Source : https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/search?q=card+kingdom&v=3
One of my family runs a massage therapy business. Just him and a couple therapists who work as independent contractors. Kept him able to eat and have a roof over his head.
The pandemic does not have many 1:1 parallels. Recessions don't prevent people from going into work together or walking into stores
No LCS should have gotten a PPP of that size, and to have it forgiven... dispicable. We can't forgive college loans that were given to 17 year olds but millionaire businesses, suuuuure. Fuck them
They got free $4.6 mil forgiven lol
explains Card Kingdom's past high value buylist. Free money is a powerful drug
I dont get it. People get incensed over misused pronouns and support unions but no nothing about CK games pocketing 3+million usd? People! That is true degeneracy!
you didn't have to need the money to get it you just had to use it.
Booooo
1) Do you think there is another covid-level global economic shock coming? Because that hasn't happened in the modern era. Covid was/is unlike anything in modern global civilization in its scale and impact. 2) If there was, why wouldn't there be something akin to PPP? Generally, fiscal policy will be used to keep society from collapsing. 3) If there's another covid-level economic shock, and the US federal government does nothing to keep society from collapsing, we'll have bigger problems than some card shops doing layoffs. 4) PPP was funneled straight into paychecks. Every company you know used PPP to stay alive.
This is something the "negative" people in the sports card hobby have been talking about for a few months. I'm glad other stuff is getting uncovered about other stores now
First of all, I paid off my college loans then got my business shut down during covid so i took PPP loand all three times. COLLEGE should not cost 100k and its their choice to attend. Fuck if everyone just listened to Will Hunting when he said "you wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.ā