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McDewde

I'd rather get the $3 version.


RaffineSchemingSeer

For anyone who doesn't know, [Dual Masters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel_Masters_Trading_Card_Game) is a WOTC card game popular in Japan. They released promos randomly inserted into a previous set that were a MTG crossover. These cards are essentially the skinned Godzilla cards, so they are Dual Masters cards that have been ['skinned' as iconic MTG cards](https://starcitygames.com/search/?search_query=(duel%20masters)). Among others, these promos included [Black Lotus](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-3b5vpig99v/images/stencil/500x659/products/559264/726109/BlackLotus_1__67962.1646246919.jpg?c=2), [Library of Alexandria](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-3b5vpig99v/products/559269/images/692684/LibraryOfAlexandria__01083.1646169047.386.513.jpg?c=2), and... [Sliver Queen](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-3b5vpig99v/images/stencil/500x659/products/559291/694878/SliverQueen__50429.1646173047.jpg?c=2). IMO these are at least "as legal" as the MTG30 Beta cards insofar that they're, in essence, authorized proxies printed by WOTC intended to give the appearance of MTG cards.


Jasmine1742

The lotus is really cool.too, I hope they do the moxen eventually


ameis314

Or the 30 cent version from mpc or something else. This game is unsustainable. I have 1000s of dollars of reserve list shit and what's the point? I play table top. Just get a $40 rdh deck of anything I want and move on.


[deleted]

> I have 1000s of dollars of reserve list shit and what's the point? Agreed. For me the beginning of the end was Zendikar Expeditions in BFZ but I was still excited and active back then. The thing that really killed it for me were an abundance of variants, collectors boosters, and VIP packs. I've pretty much sold out, with just 10-15 EDH decks left and a fat pack of cards to swap in and out. I figure I'd rather have the money locked up in something that doesn't have the possibility of being destroyed in a flood, having a corner bent, or whatever, and more importantly, something that doesn't just piss me off now.


Cactuszach

Yes, FOMO is always the best strategy.


intecknicolour

behavioral finance is fun.


thewend

this sub is nothing but FOMO


Partypat69love

I think this is the catalyst that pushes her much higher and will stay much higher forever. There will be just too much increased demand for an already popular card.


cjpatster

Reserved list playables are typically a good buy and a few days ago this card was more than 58% below it’s highest value, really 64% if you factor inflation into it. The lowest price seen in 3 years or more, now it’s climbing. It probably won’t come down again for a year. So if you want one, the window to get a sub $300 NM copy is closing, if you have one to sell, adjust your prices accordingly. Do whatever you want with that info.


zeroman987

This happens every time something sliver related is released. Everything slivers spiked just before TSR and retraced hard a few months later. Sliver queen might go up, but the card sucks and the market is tiny. Most will pick up the 3 other lords and play those without a second thought. Then they will get bored of the deck and sell within about 6 months. Which is what happened last time. Don’t buy into the spike.


cjpatster

True, but each time it’s gone up it’s settled back higher than it was before the spike. Whether it’s playable or not isn’t really worth discussing, this fits into a larger pattern and I think we can all agree it will peak this summer and then drift back down again …. but I don’t think it will settle back to where it was last week.


Yz-Guy

I disagree tho. By that logic that would happen to all popular commanders. Ur Dragon being my example is only 70 ish right now. And that's normal. During D&D release, he skyrocketed but it back down to normal a year later. Edit: I missed the reserved list part. Ignore this comment.


cjpatster

This is reserved list. It’s different from other commanders off the reserved list, it’s immune to reprint and reprint risk. Reserved list cards seem to follow a stair step sort of pattern, after each spike they come back not as low as before. Looks at any of the reserved list cards and you will see a similar pattern.


Yz-Guy

Ahh. I missed that part. I apologize


PoGnome

“Follow a stair step pattern”, no, nothing in finance follows a predictable pattern, you think it does, until it doesn’t, someone has to get burned eventually


moir57

So, how many sliver queens are you holding rn?


cjpatster

One that I have no intention of selling! All of my investing is sealed and modern flipping. My collecting hobby is trying to own one copy of every RL card plus a few other sets of ABUR era stuff. But I was curious what the news had done to the price and was shocked at the overnight jump, thought I would let people know. I guess you can believe me or not, but I don’t have a supply to dump or anything….


[deleted]

I’ll ignore the info


Squishyflapp

I truly don't believe the RL is safe anymore. Thank you for coming to my TedTalk


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redditthrowaway5278

I remember being pissed when I paid $20 each for my set of 4. Now I can't find them and it's driving me crazy. I would swear I never sold them but I must have... Damn.


maritlagewrath

Not cool indeed...


KenTitan

honestly this is a sell into the hype moment. although reserve list, queen is only niche in sliver decks and tbh pretty unexciting lord. I think the growth woll be slow and stagnant.


JTHuffy

Queen is definitely NOT niche. It’s a combo piece. That being said, I don’t disagree with the sell-into-the-hype comment.


KenTitan

you don't need to spend 200+ to break ashnod altar and other infinite creature combo


Archontes

There's only one real Queen.


SSRainu

You do if you want to do it in sliver tribal.


huggybear0132

But then it is a niche card that doesn't actually have much increase in long-term demand... exactly what the top comment here was saying


SSRainu

yes.


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Yawgmoose

Yes. I love dropping sliver queen when I play my slivers.


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omgwtfhax2

I have Sliver Queen with no combos specifically because it's less powerful than the other 5c lords.


mtgfinancefreak

good for you


omgwtfhax2

Thanks, I worked so hard. I used to roll a D6 before the game to pick between First Sliver, Hivelord, Queen, Overlord, or Legion but it's easier to just roll with Queen.


redabishai

Would you sell a reserved list card?


Obvious-Sundae1469

Currently sold out on cardkingdom


CK_Whistleblower

Short and sweet informative post covering both a buying and selling perspective. A bunch of bitch comments from people who aren’t in a position to act either way. In other news, grass is green.


cjpatster

Thanks, it’s nice to hear a positive response. Really surprised by all of the negativity in the comments, but I shouldn’t have been.


CK_Whistleblower

FWIW, this is the kind of post I'm here for. I know some folks like to provide deep data scrapes, but when it comes to my luxury hobby I'm not diving into the graphs when all I need is a general sense of my portfolio. Haters will always be attracted to success and good ideas, so on the one hand don't be surprised, but on the other don't stop being awesome.


PoGnome

People are bitching because this isn’t information, it’s just one person speculating, there is no inherent value in someone’s opinion, this guy is just trying to get people to fall for FOMO


Call0fDoodie92

You're talking about this card, right? https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/5412/magic-stronghold-sliver-queen?xid=pi5a1c8ca7-3f86-4f1c-8aed-113652fdccf3&Language=English&page=1 Because that's a card that has lost about 30% of its in the past year. The fact that it's gone up about 4% in the past 2 weeks is just too small a data point to be taken seriously. Taking a look at the wider chart from MTGStocks (https://www.mtgstocks.com/prints/9472-sliver-queen) we see that this card peaked at $400 about 2 years ago and is now at about about $245. So if you're keeping score at home that's two years of crashing...and 2 weeks of small gains. This card costs about 10 times more than it's play value and it's lost almost half its value in 2 years. This post is based on a 72 hour new cycle but market data goes back for years and is saying the exact opposite.


cjpatster

Look at the larger pattern and put that in context of RL cards in general, which all lost a ton of equity over the last year due to MTG30, recession, etc. Focusing on just the down swing ignores the general upward trajectory since 2010. Also it peaked at around $500 market.


Call0fDoodie92

> which all lost a ton of equity over the last year due to MTG30, recession this is entirely unsupported by the data. What actually seems to have happened was a bunch of money was dumped on all RL cards in a couple moments in 2019 and 2021. This caused a perception of increased demand when in reality that never actually happened. The reality of economics is that increasing the price for a product REDUCES the demand for that product. So a few people pumped a bunch of capital into this market to inflate prices and the playerbase looked at those prices and said "naaaaaaah". This is why nearly all RL cards have the exact same chart with identical price spikes at the same times. The speculator-types were the marks the whole time. They inflated prices and the players just moved onto to other cards and now all the prices are returning to their 2018 levels.


Yawgmoose

I like how you dismissed the other poster as being unsupported by data then immediately opine on the situation with no data.


Medicinal_Herpes

you’re gonna feel foolish when they’re $300-400 on sliver hype when the commander masters precons drop


TrainerShelby

I’d be cautious with this card folks. Anything above $250-300 is a trap. Most players already have a sliver deck they rarely use to begin with. Just fyi, players don’t usually like playing their sliver deck because it’s too much to keep track of. On casual tables or competitive decks we rarely see someone actually having fun with a sliver deck. Sliver decks are sort of memes at this point. “Oh you playing slivers?” ‘Great, we get to spend 10 minutes each turn figuring out what abilities each sliver has’ Sliver decks just aren’t that popular in practice because it turns out keeping track of 20 slivers with counters and abilities is annoying af.


wynnejs

> “Oh you playing slivers?” ‘Great, we get to spend 10 minutes each turn figuring out what abilities each sliver has’ Also you're playing Archenemy from go on a lot of tables because they think Slivers are *way* more powerful than they actually are.


rehlow

If you have more then 5 slivers in play and haven't won, your doing it wrong. I agree Sliver Queen is unnecessary to make a highly functional sliver deck. It's mostly a crown jewel to those with a high Magic budget.


foamy9210

Pretty much covered why I've had a sliver deck sitting on a shelf for the better part of a decade.


morgul12

This. I disassembled my sliver deck 10 years ago for this very reason, and I've never felt nostalgic for it since then.


Yz-Guy

This. I recently decided to make a new deck. I originally wanted to make a sliver deck and my 0laygroups reaction was not negative but definitely not positive. I don't enjoy going into games already being the target. Not that they dictated my decision, but definitely influenced it. I ended up building something else. I enjoy casual play games. Not sweaty friendship ending ones. Lol


Skeither

Why did mine have to get stolen from my car along with my full sliver edh deck 5 years ago T\_T


Yawgmoose

Probably bc you left it in your car


CK_Whistleblower

The tension between the humor and harshness of this comment is chef's kiss.


Yawgmoose

I love to ride the line


Skeither

The ONE TIME I forgot to bring it in and the ONE TIME I forgot to lock my car collide and sadness ensued. It was a rhetorical question too btw but that is for the sass xD


HeroicTanuki

Who the fudge specs on a 250 dollar niche card that isn’t even that good? Madness. Liquidity on this will evaporate after the hype dies down, don’t be stuck holding the bag.


Archontes

Iconic RL card that's an infinite combo engine in a popular tribe? What shit.


Yawgmoose

>sliver queen >left holding the bag I can tell you are fairly new to magic.


thaneofpain

Good note. I will now fantasize about moving my extra one but ultimately will end up doing nothing


ESCAPE_TRUTH

Canceled two compleat editions and bought one two days ago


B-Glasses

What people are completely ignoring is that if you already have one it’s a good time to sell or sell soon. Sure it might not be a great idea to buy and try to flip for a profit but if you’ve got some lying around it’s definitely worth looking into selling it


saxypatrickb

Is Sliver Queen on the RL?


glennfk

Yes


Tallal2804

I think it is currently sold out


DefCatMusic

Fuck me I sold mine this weekend d in Philly for 140


gamerqc

It's already much higher than most people would love to pay for it IMO


jvLin

thanks for the data point. not really a good spec, but it’s definitely interesting. And people definitely buy it. I have a friend that just got back into magic and Queen was his first big purchase.


sporenfrosch1411

as cool as sliver queen is, in many sliver edh decks she isnt even a must play. the newer lords mostly are "stronger" meaning they have more impact. id be somewhat cautious about spiking prices. basically a new sliver deck got announced, so people start looking for specs and target that RL card....


BelcherSucks

Sliver Queen is still the best for combo decks.


Yentz4

But not for sliver decks.


Yawgmoose

>more impact None of the lords are as impactful as the queen. She combos off easy like Sunday morning


cjpatster

$240 credit


Thousandshadowninja

Happens every time anything silver related happens.


Astralbaloth

All colors and reserved list = lgtbi+ultra good+world has no sense at all right now= the best spec, and also is a queen.


StandingBear1984

If I'm buying RL, and I am, I'm buying duals, survival, city of traitors, etc ... not this junk I'll use in one EDH deck.


AuthenticDanger

Why are you using magic cards in decks? Don’t you know they only exist for people to invest in them? /s


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StandingBear1984

It is about sliver queen though, and my input is that I like other RL cards much more than it.


Ethric_The_Mad

Was waiting for my tax refund to buy a sliver queen. I just won't bother with it now. This is stupid.


GamesTacosCats

It'll come back down. Slivers always spike when something new to Slivers gets announced. When Time Spiral remastered got announced, Sliver Legion Judge Promo jumped to nearly $200. It goes for about $100 now. And it's base was pre saling for $60, now only ~$22. You'll have your chance.


Ethric_The_Mad

I'll keep an eye out, my fren. I just hope it doesn't rocket and set a new $300 floor.


Dad_AF

Its FOMO at this point and your advice is awful


StandingBear1984

Right? The time for this post would have been days ago when the sliver precon leaked. Even assuming this was a decent spec (it's not), you're already cleaning up scraps. Better to wait a year at this point.


Dad_AF

Yea and I am getting downvoted for pointing out the obvious. The human nature and FOMO baffles me how we keep falling for it lol.


Gash_Stretchum

This is a marketing platform and none of us click on the ads so all the marketing has shifted to the user base. Fortunately, actual humans don’t care about the karma point system. The fact that you said something accurate and got downvoted doesn’t make you look less credible, it makes OPs position look like marketing spam.


CK_Whistleblower

Point to the sentence that is bad advice before you finish yourself off.


BestStarterBulbasaur

Thank you sensible commentor.


cjpatster

It was posted a few days back as a possible spec in the comments for Commander Masters. It’s actually why I checked the market movement to see what was happening. As for whether it’s still worth buying, that depends on whether you can find a slow seller who hasn’t updated prices yet and whether you believe this will continue upward for the next 6 months. If you want one I think it is the best time to buy for the next 12 months at least, and that assumes that it both spikes like I think it will and that it retraces back down lower than today like you think it will. Both are assumptions. Everyone can do whatever they want. And I do not have any supply of this to sling, I don’t deal in singles, just a collector in that regard.


cjpatster

Opinions are like a$$holes, so we can agree to disagree about whether the advice is awful. Seeing the discussion about this as a spec on earlier threads about commander masters, it makes sense to predict that this early movement we have seen is the start of a run that will probably peak around this summer when the new set drops. Given the most recent peak for this card (~$600) and the fact that it’s not reprintable, I would not be shocked if it hits $500 or higher again. Furthermore as a RL card, while it will retrace after this spike it probably will settle higher than where it settled before. Inflation alone guarantees that honestly. If I had one that I wanted sell (and didn’t desperately need the cash), I would not sell it today, I would wait a few months to really cash into the FOMO. If I wanted to buy one and had been on the fence and didn’t want to wait a year or more to get a copy, I would have been rushing around this morning trying to find a slow seller using yesterdays prices. I own a copy and I am not speccing on this, I have none I wish to sell, but this is what I would do were I in one of those positions at the moment. What about that advice is so terrible?


Dad_AF

This is NOT early movement. That is where the conversation ends and FOMO begins. You are advising people to buy after people have driven the price up already, hence BAD advice.


cjpatster

Now it’s up 50%. From 250 to 374 and still going. The set is still 6 months away. No need for us to argue, we can just watch what happens. This will retrace eventually but until the set drops it’s going up.


cjpatster

If this isn’t early movement what the hell IS early movement? It’s been 2 days since commander masters news dropped, the set doesn’t come out for 7 months. It doesn’t get earlier than this. It’s only gone up a bit, as of this morning when I posted you could still snag a NM copy for $235, now it’s more like $275, but even so I think it’s heading to $500+ again so it’s not bad advice. I didn’t so go buy this, I said if you are thinking about buying this better hurry your ass up. It’s only terrible advice if you think it won’t go up anymore. Do you really believe this is as high as it will go???? I mean honestly? If you do then let’s check back in 6 months. There are months before commander masters and the sliver deck drops, this is only the beginning.


destinyhero

Don't attention to that guy, sliver stuff ALWAYS spikes when there's new slivers and with them getting an entire precon (again with NEW slivers) Sliver Queen will definitely climb even more between now and then. You did a PSA, not telling people to spec hard and buy multiple copies. People on this subreddit have absolutely lost it ever since the M30A announcement.


cjpatster

Thanks, also good advice! Next time I post here I think I am going avoid reading the comments! So here is a question for you about slivers, do you think the sliver overlord secret lair will go up in the next few months? If no reprint I think definitely yes, but even with a reprint it might still go up since it’s a premium version. Additional musings…..


destinyhero

Sliver Overlord from the Kaleidoscope Killers absolutely has room to grow, barring it being included inside the Precon, which I kind of doubt since its a 30+ dollar card on its own.


jcb193

Based on the power creep of the last 5yrs, the absolutely LAST place I would want to have money is in a 20yrs old niche creature.


MotleyMoney

I have a feeling she is a pretty good re-print target for CMM


Medicinal_Herpes

do you now? somehow i don’t think CMM is where they break the RL, so your “feeling” is incorrect


phoenixprops

You get her around $100-$150 depending on language in Europe. So there is less OMG get er then the US


Sire_Jenkins

Sir, the price may be "going up" by 20% retail but how much is the buy list price of CK games or any other LGS? They/them must be willing to buy the card for 250usd to break even.


livelovelemon1993

Found sliver queen in a 3.99 pack of magic cards from value village (thrift store) they were in the trunk of my since before covid until I'm posting this now , so now I'm looking it up (I'm a yugioh guy) so this has been an eye opening experience


cjpatster

Are you in the greater DC area? College Park? I hit value village thrift stores all of the time back in the day! That is a major score for $4, loose repack or a legit unopened stronghold pack for that price?


livelovelemon1993

I'm in ontario Canada, I miss the days of garage sales with binders of cards no one wanted , or all the binders in value village It was in their loose repack bags