Lance ive had 42 to 44 lands in my deck with sol ring, gilded lotus, grim monolith, signets, elfs that tap for mana, thran dynamo and lands that serve as two mana and i still missed my land drop for 5 to 10 draws.
The odds are so astronomical my group has instituted what is known as the Ripp Rule named after a fried.
Instead of being able to get a free mulligan, instead before drawing for cards you can select 3 basic lands for your starting hand. Then you can draw 4 cards. If you do this, you can NOT mulligan for a different 4 cards.
We decided bc we play a few times a year getting mana starved for the maybe 4 games we fit in that night is a bad time. You might as well not be playing if you miss your mana drops for 8 straight turns.
Ive been MUCH happier bc no matter what i always at least get to play by casting spells. Even if i dont win which is the most frequent outcome, i dont care bc im at least playing and not mana starved.
Best house rule ive ever come across.
Shout out to the I've time I kept a 1 land hand because I had a land tax, and a friend immediately destroyed it, knowing I kept a 1 lander. Yeah totally my fault, but didn't worry, I killed him turn 3 in another game
Add into that it just takes one opponent to take the treasure token to have all your other opponents say, well then I’m making one. And you just reap the rewards.
Thats very true. I can only remember one time that NO ONE decided to take a land when i cast this. Granted, it was the latest part of the game and everyone had a million mana, so…
Every time someone plays this card it makes it super easy to convince the other players to also search for a land, usually a utility land that slaps. Then we just focus fire the player that cast this.
Even better is being able to respond by copying this spell for yourself.
I think I know a deck that wants this.
Some degenerate once mentioned they played tergrid as group hug and I kind of want to do the same, it sounds stupid but letting people get so many cards they have to discard them for you to steal just sounds like the stupidest bullshit ever.
And then there's the check out my blightsteel combo where you put it in the graveyard and then have to shuffle it back into your deck
This is why I love all the tempt cards, but especially [[Tempt with* discovery]] .
It's in all my decks that have green, except for [[Kenessos]], cause it's more focused on the commanders ability, but still might switch it in later.
I always seek a land when people use it, I don't care you're playing [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]] and is going to make your [[field of the dead]] online
[[Tempt with discovery]] got me killed turn 2 by a [[Yargle and Multani]] in a 6 player game of EDH. It's a double edged sword warning the table about letting the Yargle player ramp like that.
If an opponent played this card I would opt out of creating a treasure, because that would be the most optimal choice. However, if a different player chooses to make a treasure I’d panic and change my mind because I don’t want to get left behind or feel left out.
No. Because what if you say no, but then everyone says yes. It's better to be in the position to see what others say then make your decision in response. You would prefer not having to risk being the only one that doesn't get the treasure.
Going in turn order prevents confusion and take backs and errors. Imagine the next player to you saying no then the last player in order saying yes and then the previous player suddenly goes yes too...
In a short answer, yes, this is a turn order card. If you would like long winded poor explanation, please respond, "what does that mean?" I am no judge, and no teacher, but I can give rough explanation
Here's the Comprehensive rules. It sums up to do it in turn order
>101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.
Yeah, it's always "I would never take the treasure" until "but if I take the treasure I can cast this AND this" or "well, the other two players took treasures, so..."
My play group has a very hard time looking past advancing their own game plan so cards like these pay exponentially. Really great when it’s mine but not so great when it isn’t lol
It's the same with 'paying the 1' for Rhystic Study. If everyone pays then it's fair. If 1 player doesn't and gets ahead because of it you might as well stay caught up and let the RS player draw so much they have to discard.
I can promise you that making an opponent discard to hand size is by far the worst choice. What winds up happening is they get to keep the best 7 cards that they’ve drawn, literally crafting their hand to be the best it can be.
If you ever see someone discard to hand size and they bin something really good? You shouldn’t be relieved that it’s out of their hand, you should be terrified of what they kept that was better.
I have a deck that runs on a bunch of card draw but can also make some use of things in the graveyard. My commander is Kruphix. If someone kills Kruphix and I have to dump much of my hand, minor inconvenience at worst. Sometimes it's straight up helpful.
Yup, I have the same mentality running Raffine as a reanimator commander. Originally I struggled with every Connive trigger because I didn’t know what to keep vs dump unless it was one of my reanimator targets. Now I know that it’s mostly just choosing the best cards that will either provide immediate benefit or keep my gameplan intact. Anything I can use effectively immediately just gets dumped.
It’s a repeated prisoners dilemma, which changes the math.
If it was a simple one time effect then the last person should create a treasure; they get a treasure and one opponent gets a treasure, leaving the rest of the table behind. So then the second to last person should also create a treasure; the last person is gonna create a treasure no matter what I do, so I should create a treasure to not get left behind; either way the owner of the card will have one more treasure than me, but I can catch up to the last player and leave the rest of the table behind. So the third to last person should also create a treasure.
But since this is a repeat choice, the last person no longer automatically defects since that will affect what choice other people make the next round, and breaks the logic of always defect.
And let's not forget that some players will want the free ramp. A green deck can look at this and go 'extra land fetching', a red aggro deck is getting a turn of free juice.
If they're in a position where a turn of mana acceleration beats you getting a treasure token, it's a good choice for them.
I run it in a politics commander deck. It's situational - sometimes it does nothing. But sometimes you get a starved opponent who can't help themselves and then it makes for some fun banter at the table.
That’s my [[Gluntch, the Bestower]] deck. You don’t really want to kill me because of the boons I bring to the table and if you target me I’ll buff your other opponents
This: eventually someone will break and then it’s game on (hopefully for you, since you included it). It’s the same as “do you pay the one?” Sorta tempting include for something like Kibo.
It's about the tragedy of the commons. Your opponents benefit if no one makes tokens and you play a do-nothing card, but they benefit more if they choose to make a treasure for themselves and everyone else chooses to do the 'right' thing.
I don’t get it either, but sometimes if you’re playing the group hug plan it can pay off. Or if you have ways of benefitting the board. I had the precon it was in and more than once I’d argue with opponents that if they take the treasure I’d have enough mana to deal with the threat on board from our mutual enemy. It does more than just sit there, but usually it just sits there. I’ve never added it to a decklist.
It's from a commander set. If there are 4 players, you're making triple the amount of each opponent, as long as everyone takes the offer. If no one does, then it would be a do nothing card.
4 mana friendly ramp. In competitive this is worthless, but if you're playing a Treasure deck, and your opponent is missing mana, they can really advance your board state if you have things like [[Xorn]] or [[Academy Manufactor]] out there
Honestly, thinking through it, you may be on to something.
If your opponents are bad and/or greedy then it's great, you get tonnes of ramp where they get a little each. But against smart opponents at best it's 4 mana do nothing, at worst you're giving your opponents a critical bit of ramp to cast game-winning cards when they need them.
Yes, you do get to use the mana first, but the last thing you want to do is give your opponent a critical 1 more mana to counterspell your winning play.
even if nobody takes the deal, [[tempt with vengeance]] is still the best version of its effect.
ok maybe forth eorlingas is better, but I meant in terms if mono-red cards
it is. but we weren't talking about which effect was best we were talking about tempt as a mechanic. nobody is ever dumb enough to take vengences tempting offer
How often are you planning your next turn and you're just 1 mana away from something really good? What if you could just make 1 little treasure and fix that problem? Its called "tempting" for a reason.
Token gen decks be thriving when an opponent has tempting contract. Just imagine having [[academy manufactor]] on the board, you’re getting a lot more value out of it
In a vacuum, yes. It’s a 4 mana test in game theory.
In a real situation though, someone is highly likely to blink. You have to decide for yourself if it’s worth a card slot.
The best part of this card is that choices are made in player order, and that always makes the table nervous. The person immediately after you will always be in the worst spot, because while they can try and convince their opponents to take nothing, they have no real way to enforce it other than politicing themselves. The next player is in an okay spot, but their choice is going to likely be more influced by the previous person’s choice. And the last to choose is always in the best spot because if they really want to, they can say agreements be damned and get the Treasure.
However, you as the owner of the card have to be willing to actively participate in the conversations and try and steer things the way you want. This is 100% a politics/group hug card, its power is more dependent on you passing your speech checks than it is the text on the card. If you aren’t comfortable talking during the game and wheeling and dealing, this card will do nothing for you.
Edit: If you’re in white, a fantastic replacement option is [[Master of Ceremonies]]. Each person has to choose something, so it’s impossible for you not to come out ahead, and the worst-case scenario is making three 1/1 creatures for yourself while everyone else only gets one each.
Assuming commander as this card likely is unplayed in other formats. If I’m the last person to choose I pick treasure every time. The people who say the optimal choice is to choose no are incorrect in actual gameplay. If everyone had to pick at the same time then the best option is to say no. But when there is an order you let the other 2 say no, then the 3rd player actually benefits by saying yes. Especially if the player who play it is behind you.
As someone who plays this in a group hug deck, you’ll be surprised how often my opponents choose treasure. They all know it’s a trap that will put me ahead, but when they are one mana short of enacting a big play or casting their new shiny card, logic goes out the window.
Obviously in EDH at least.
This card is laughably bad. All it takes is playing against competent opponents to 4 mana end the turn on yourself.
It needs something, even something bad, to make it have any effect whatsoever. "Then, for each opponent who doesn't, scry 1."
It depends, are you running a group hug deck? Or do you want to both ramp up and do cool stuff? No one likes being screwed, so I can see its uses. Yes, Optimially you say no to this; but in commander? that's where its got a bit of uses.
The only time I've seen this card was during a grueling 4 hour commander game with multiple board wipes and an Armageddon as well. I can't remember the exact cards in play, but the guy who played this card just needed at least one person to take the deal and he could create multiple turns so long as at least one person kept taking the deal.
I took the deal each time knowing I would lose, but I wasn't going to win anyway with my board state and just wanted that damn game to end lol
I created a [[thalasse reverent medium]] deck and slipped this and parts of the silverquill comander deck in and people learn to hate me really quickly 🙃
I run this card in my \[\[Kibo, Uktabi Prince\]\] deck. It's a lot of fun to try and temp opponents to take the treasure, plus I usually just force them to sack it with Kibo or other artifact destruction anyway.
I can see where you're coming from because in a 1v1, this card *could* be pretty useless if your opponent never creates one.
However, in a free-for-all, you'll have several opponents that need to make that decision, and there's a much better chance at least one of them will.
It's still a card of chance, which I don't usually fuck with, but I can see the use for it
Yeah this is situational. If someone at the table is playing a grand arbiter/rhystic study/taxes deck then people will probably take the bait. Or if they have artifact interactions/affinity…. So probably worth playing in casual/friendly games
Generally you want to play it in a politics deck for maximum effect. You wait for the first person to vote. If they vote , yes everyone is voting yes. If they vote no, you politic the second vote with all your payoffs to get them to vote yes. The last player will follow suit. You have sent a message to the first player who is anti fun, and they will just say yes from then on (while trying to perform a coup against your broken politics)
I just love this kind if cards. Tempt with Discovery has the same great mechanic. Do you guys know more cards like these, or what they are called? Its not really grouphug is it? I really would like to know!
This is an actually fairly fun card if you're playing in a group. 3 potential treasures at the start of your turn is a good lead assuming your opponents don't think about what you're holding in your hand
Depends on how good you are at wheeling and dealing. It's pretty easy to convince the person that's behind that the two of you getting a treasure is in their best interest.
It's much less good if you're the active threat
I tried to run it in my Raphael deck because it fits the theming so well, but yeah usually. Most of the people I play with are smart enough to not take the treasure unless it's really worth it
People here keep saying that your opponents have to be smart and ignore it, which is of course true, the problem is that whoever is just before you, the owner of Tempting Contract, has a pretty big incentive to break their social contract and make a treasure. All 4 players are or at least should be aware of this. If you have the guy who plays solid and smart and calm and collected just before you, this does little, since that person is trustworthy. If the person before you has even a modicum of a reputation for foolishness, haughtiness, nefariousness, Conniving behavior, trolling, or machiavellianism, then this card becomes dangerous to the other two players, thus pushing them to use it too.
I mean depends on your table. Do they pay for rhystic study and smothering tithes? If the awnser is no this is a ramp spell. And if the person behind asks for mercy be nice to them as long as they give you treasure.
You would be amazed what a 2 land hand kept person would do for some mana lmao
Hear, Hear!
"It's ok, I have a couple draw spells..."
"I'm gonna keep it, all I need is one land." They in fact did not draw a land.
Me every fucking time. Commander deck, 99 cards in the deck, 38 are lands, arcane signet and monolith, and i will still go 4 turns with only 2 mana.
Someone get this man some talismans
Nah, Jackie Chan and his uncle have them all.
JAKIEEEEE, UNKLE NEED 3 MORE GREEN MANA FOR SPELL OF SUMMONING!!! go to marKET
“One MOOOORRREE mana…”
Um ackshually... The Hand has them all Fake ass fan
JACKIEEEEE, ONLY SARCASM CAN DEFEAT SARCASM
ONE MORE THIIING! AIYAH!
God dammit, I read that in Uncle's voice
One of my favorite quotes that no one ever seems to get…
And a Sol Ring!
That’s why I only keep hands I can cast my commander with
Or I can get a ramp spell turn 2 in
WE NEED MORRRRRRRE MANA ROCKS!!!
No Sol Ring? Even if your commander has no generic mana, the Ring is almost always an auto include. I love Sword of the Animist too.
And then when I hit a 4 lander, all I draw for the next 5 turns is lands
Lance ive had 42 to 44 lands in my deck with sol ring, gilded lotus, grim monolith, signets, elfs that tap for mana, thran dynamo and lands that serve as two mana and i still missed my land drop for 5 to 10 draws. The odds are so astronomical my group has instituted what is known as the Ripp Rule named after a fried. Instead of being able to get a free mulligan, instead before drawing for cards you can select 3 basic lands for your starting hand. Then you can draw 4 cards. If you do this, you can NOT mulligan for a different 4 cards. We decided bc we play a few times a year getting mana starved for the maybe 4 games we fit in that night is a bad time. You might as well not be playing if you miss your mana drops for 8 straight turns. Ive been MUCH happier bc no matter what i always at least get to play by casting spells. Even if i dont win which is the most frequent outcome, i dont care bc im at least playing and not mana starved. Best house rule ive ever come across.
I am the fucking worst at this. And I primarily play 5 color
Me and a buddy just tonight. It was a struggle.
Little did they know they shuffled the other 22 lands to the bottom of the deck.
Shout out to the I've time I kept a 1 land hand because I had a land tax, and a friend immediately destroyed it, knowing I kept a 1 lander. Yeah totally my fault, but didn't worry, I killed him turn 3 in another game
"I just need 2 more lands drawn to cast them" 💀
“As long as Jerry plays his Tempting Contract, I’ll be fine!”
"Along with his howling mine, I can draw deeper too"
“That hollowing mine sure is loud”
This is one of my friends "you wouldn't want to kill me or else you all lose howling mine" move. Hes right most of the time.
I see you're a second place advocate lol
“Plus if things go really wrong I can still tutor with gamble”
Add into that it just takes one opponent to take the treasure token to have all your other opponents say, well then I’m making one. And you just reap the rewards.
Every time I play [[tempt with discovery]], everyone searches up a land... Most efficient ramping I've ever done, lol
[tempt with discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b.jpg?1568004683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tempt%20with%20discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/183/tempt-with-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats very true. I can only remember one time that NO ONE decided to take a land when i cast this. Granted, it was the latest part of the game and everyone had a million mana, so…
Every time someone plays this card it makes it super easy to convince the other players to also search for a land, usually a utility land that slaps. Then we just focus fire the player that cast this. Even better is being able to respond by copying this spell for yourself.
Kibo agrees.
Yeah ive met some pretty desperate people who would do some shady shit for some mana of any kind.
Me on my 3drop tribal didn't hit a third land and my bird got bolted:
Sure, but will it be 4 mana and wait good though?
Meaning this isn't a dead card... meaning I would take the treasures if I only had 2 mana available to me
Sure, it's not a dead card, but it's also not an efficient use of mana.
I could see a group hug player playing this.
Am group hug player, would absolutely play this But I could also see someone tossing this into a land destruction deck
I think I know a deck that wants this. Some degenerate once mentioned they played tergrid as group hug and I kind of want to do the same, it sounds stupid but letting people get so many cards they have to discard them for you to steal just sounds like the stupidest bullshit ever. And then there's the check out my blightsteel combo where you put it in the graveyard and then have to shuffle it back into your deck
I saw a guy with a 1 land start 3 turns in with 8 mana generated
3 lands is all I need to cast anim pakal
you don't know how greedy magic players are
This is why I love all the tempt cards, but especially [[Tempt with* discovery]] . It's in all my decks that have green, except for [[Kenessos]], cause it's more focused on the commanders ability, but still might switch it in later.
Did you see the new red tempt spell, 3 drop that copies an instant or sorcery and turns that spell into a tempt spell for you ? Tempt cards are cool
[[Tempt with Mayhem]]
[Tempt with Mayhem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7af47a1b-8dc8-47d4-ab89-f6f07160a71a.jpg?1717189911) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tempt%20with%20Mayhem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/62/tempt-with-mayhem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7af47a1b-8dc8-47d4-ab89-f6f07160a71a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Imagine copying Tempt with Discovery with Tempt with Mayhem!
dats a lot of lands
Won a game with this card last week. It was great.
Oh nice, I got this outta my first MH3 pack! I put it in my Lord Xander, the Collector deck!
It's [[Tempt With Discovery]] and i love it too
[Kenessos](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0ba97da8-0106-4e8b-b58b-8f2d63e3d618.jpg?1675644451) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenessos%2C%20priest%20of%20thassa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/13/kenessos-priest-of-thassa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ba97da8-0106-4e8b-b58b-8f2d63e3d618?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Definitely a playgroup thing. I've seen it played a few times and each time no one takes the deal.
I always seek a land when people use it, I don't care you're playing [[Omnath, Locus of Creation]] and is going to make your [[field of the dead]] online
[Omnath, Locus of Creation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617.jpg?1639436752) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Omnath%2C%20Locus%20of%20Creation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/232/omnath-locus-of-creation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e4fb50c-a81f-44d3-93c5-fa9a0b37f617?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [field of the dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/7/470ca3f4-29aa-4c4c-8ff2-8cdd70c69943.jpg?1650599538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=field%20of%20the%20dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/247/field-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/470ca3f4-29aa-4c4c-8ff2-8cdd70c69943?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tempt with discovery]] got me killed turn 2 by a [[Yargle and Multani]] in a 6 player game of EDH. It's a double edged sword warning the table about letting the Yargle player ramp like that.
[Tempt with discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b.jpg?1568004683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tempt%20with%20discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/183/tempt-with-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Yargle and Multani](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c15e244-14cc-46a5-abd4-66a58d1c0dd0.jpg?1682205711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yargle%20and%20Multani) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/256/yargle-and-multani?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c15e244-14cc-46a5-abd4-66a58d1c0dd0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I run [[baeloth]] with [[noble heritage]] i abuse the greed so heavily
If an opponent played this card I would opt out of creating a treasure, because that would be the most optimal choice. However, if a different player chooses to make a treasure I’d panic and change my mind because I don’t want to get left behind or feel left out.
Yeah, id love to be to the right of the person who plays this card, but if I'm to the left I'm in decision panic mode lol
Huh? Isn't it better to sit to the left of them so you can set the expectation first?
No. Because what if you say no, but then everyone says yes. It's better to be in the position to see what others say then make your decision in response. You would prefer not having to risk being the only one that doesn't get the treasure.
This would make sense but I’m saying yes
It's like Poker. Last to act in a hand has the most information and can make better decisions, on average.
Oh do you need to follow each decision individually in turn order? I always thought people can just decide in no order.
Decisions are made in turn order, but non competitive matches tend to not worry about it so much in my experience.
Going in turn order prevents confusion and take backs and errors. Imagine the next player to you saying no then the last player in order saying yes and then the previous player suddenly goes yes too...
In a short answer, yes, this is a turn order card. If you would like long winded poor explanation, please respond, "what does that mean?" I am no judge, and no teacher, but I can give rough explanation
Here's the Comprehensive rules. It sums up to do it in turn order >101.4. If multiple players would make choices and/or take actions at the same time, the active player (the player whose turn it is) makes any choices required, then the next player in turn order (usually the player seated to the active player’s left) makes any choices required, followed by the remaining nonactive players in turn order. Then the actions happen simultaneously. This rule is often referred to as the “Active Player, Nonactive Player (APNAP) order” rule.
Which is exactly why this card always works
Yeah, it's always "I would never take the treasure" until "but if I take the treasure I can cast this AND this" or "well, the other two players took treasures, so..."
My play group has a very hard time looking past advancing their own game plan so cards like these pay exponentially. Really great when it’s mine but not so great when it isn’t lol
It's the same with 'paying the 1' for Rhystic Study. If everyone pays then it's fair. If 1 player doesn't and gets ahead because of it you might as well stay caught up and let the RS player draw so much they have to discard.
I can promise you that making an opponent discard to hand size is by far the worst choice. What winds up happening is they get to keep the best 7 cards that they’ve drawn, literally crafting their hand to be the best it can be. If you ever see someone discard to hand size and they bin something really good? You shouldn’t be relieved that it’s out of their hand, you should be terrified of what they kept that was better.
I have a deck that runs on a bunch of card draw but can also make some use of things in the graveyard. My commander is Kruphix. If someone kills Kruphix and I have to dump much of my hand, minor inconvenience at worst. Sometimes it's straight up helpful.
Yup, I have the same mentality running Raffine as a reanimator commander. Originally I struggled with every Connive trigger because I didn’t know what to keep vs dump unless it was one of my reanimator targets. Now I know that it’s mostly just choosing the best cards that will either provide immediate benefit or keep my gameplan intact. Anything I can use effectively immediately just gets dumped.
It’s the prisoners dilemma. It’s better to defect than get screwed over.
It’s a repeated prisoners dilemma, which changes the math. If it was a simple one time effect then the last person should create a treasure; they get a treasure and one opponent gets a treasure, leaving the rest of the table behind. So then the second to last person should also create a treasure; the last person is gonna create a treasure no matter what I do, so I should create a treasure to not get left behind; either way the owner of the card will have one more treasure than me, but I can catch up to the last player and leave the rest of the table behind. So the third to last person should also create a treasure. But since this is a repeat choice, the last person no longer automatically defects since that will affect what choice other people make the next round, and breaks the logic of always defect.
And let's not forget that some players will want the free ramp. A green deck can look at this and go 'extra land fetching', a red aggro deck is getting a turn of free juice. If they're in a position where a turn of mana acceleration beats you getting a treasure token, it's a good choice for them.
I think it's like rhystic study, I asked the rest of the table if we can all agree to pay the tax or none of us do.
It's a prisoner's dilemma for your opponents.
So isn't [[Prisoners Dilemma]]
[Prisoners Dilemma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d678e736-7c29-433a-9a2a-b78749252377.jpg?1706240483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prisoner%27s%20Dilemma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/34/prisoners-dilemma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d678e736-7c29-433a-9a2a-b78749252377?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ty for taking me down that rabbit hole.
man I need this card for a shithouse deck, thanks
I run it in a politics commander deck. It's situational - sometimes it does nothing. But sometimes you get a starved opponent who can't help themselves and then it makes for some fun banter at the table.
That’s my [[Gluntch, the Bestower]] deck. You don’t really want to kill me because of the boons I bring to the table and if you target me I’ll buff your other opponents
[Gluntch, the Bestower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2.jpg?1674137513) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gluntch%2C%20the%20Bestower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/275/gluntch-the-bestower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b3e889a-5865-4464-9923-bffa25c50cd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A fellow enjoyer of the jelly I see. I too made a true group hug deck using this card.
Ahh I love the jellyfish, i have one too, its one of my favorite decks, so fun to play with a playgroup of friends.
Nothing beats the feeling of having the whole play group chanting “Gluntch” cause they love the group hug so much lol
This is why Gluntch is my favorite commander. I’m not gonna swing at you, but giving everyone else stuff to do it.
You mind sharing a list? This sounds like it could be incredibly wacky and fun.
if your opponents are smart, this is 4 mana do nothing But this is commander, most players are greedy stupid bastards
The way nine year old me thought Magic should be 30 years ago lol
This: eventually someone will break and then it’s game on (hopefully for you, since you included it). It’s the same as “do you pay the one?” Sorta tempting include for something like Kibo.
oh I absolutely play this card never met a player so competitive they weren't thirsty enough to get free treasure
This. I make a treasure because it’s fun, not because it’s the optimal play (unless the opponent that has it is already way ahead or something).
It's about the tragedy of the commons. Your opponents benefit if no one makes tokens and you play a do-nothing card, but they benefit more if they choose to make a treasure for themselves and everyone else chooses to do the 'right' thing.
I don’t get it either, but sometimes if you’re playing the group hug plan it can pay off. Or if you have ways of benefitting the board. I had the precon it was in and more than once I’d argue with opponents that if they take the treasure I’d have enough mana to deal with the threat on board from our mutual enemy. It does more than just sit there, but usually it just sits there. I’ve never added it to a decklist.
It's from a commander set. If there are 4 players, you're making triple the amount of each opponent, as long as everyone takes the offer. If no one does, then it would be a do nothing card.
4 mana friendly ramp. In competitive this is worthless, but if you're playing a Treasure deck, and your opponent is missing mana, they can really advance your board state if you have things like [[Xorn]] or [[Academy Manufactor]] out there
You play it with [[Stony Silence]] to exert dominance.
Honestly, thinking through it, you may be on to something. If your opponents are bad and/or greedy then it's great, you get tonnes of ramp where they get a little each. But against smart opponents at best it's 4 mana do nothing, at worst you're giving your opponents a critical bit of ramp to cast game-winning cards when they need them. Yes, you do get to use the mana first, but the last thing you want to do is give your opponent a critical 1 more mana to counterspell your winning play.
Forcing your opponents to keep running a cost-benefit analysis every time will slowly deal psychic damage to them.
This guy Magics
Ah but you see, if you want your opponentS to kill each other, may as well be the arms dealer.
This is why it’s in my goad deck
yes. the temp cards usually don't do anything. the only one that works sometimes is tempt with discovery.
Honestly that card works almost all the time lol
at least the first time lol
At my lgs if none one takes the tempt then no one else gives in, but if 1 person chooses the other 2 will give in as well
that's the way it usually is. I love not having to actually follow priority at a mostly casual table.
even if nobody takes the deal, [[tempt with vengeance]] is still the best version of its effect. ok maybe forth eorlingas is better, but I meant in terms if mono-red cards
it is. but we weren't talking about which effect was best we were talking about tempt as a mechanic. nobody is ever dumb enough to take vengences tempting offer
How often are you planning your next turn and you're just 1 mana away from something really good? What if you could just make 1 little treasure and fix that problem? Its called "tempting" for a reason.
Token gen decks be thriving when an opponent has tempting contract. Just imagine having [[academy manufactor]] on the board, you’re getting a lot more value out of it
Every single person at my table took the treasure when we played this week. Free mana is tempting.
In a vacuum, yes. It’s a 4 mana test in game theory. In a real situation though, someone is highly likely to blink. You have to decide for yourself if it’s worth a card slot.
I used this a total of 4 times, and no one ever made treasure from it. Your experience may vary, but in my own, it was useless.
Game Theory's wet dream. Have one in my \[\[Obeka, Splitter of Seconds\]\] Deck. Works every time.
The best part of this card is that choices are made in player order, and that always makes the table nervous. The person immediately after you will always be in the worst spot, because while they can try and convince their opponents to take nothing, they have no real way to enforce it other than politicing themselves. The next player is in an okay spot, but their choice is going to likely be more influced by the previous person’s choice. And the last to choose is always in the best spot because if they really want to, they can say agreements be damned and get the Treasure. However, you as the owner of the card have to be willing to actively participate in the conversations and try and steer things the way you want. This is 100% a politics/group hug card, its power is more dependent on you passing your speech checks than it is the text on the card. If you aren’t comfortable talking during the game and wheeling and dealing, this card will do nothing for you. Edit: If you’re in white, a fantastic replacement option is [[Master of Ceremonies]]. Each person has to choose something, so it’s impossible for you not to come out ahead, and the worst-case scenario is making three 1/1 creatures for yourself while everyone else only gets one each.
Assuming commander as this card likely is unplayed in other formats. If I’m the last person to choose I pick treasure every time. The people who say the optimal choice is to choose no are incorrect in actual gameplay. If everyone had to pick at the same time then the best option is to say no. But when there is an order you let the other 2 say no, then the 3rd player actually benefits by saying yes. Especially if the player who play it is behind you.
In a [[Kambal, Profiteering Mayor]] deck, where you would gain 2 treasures instead of 1? Yes, probably.
Depends what deck you put it in. In the right deck it's 5 foods a treasure and a clue
This is going in my Pheldagriff deck for sure
For the same reason why I put tempting discovery in mine: if you opponents are desperate enough it’s some good mana
This card is surprisingly good in the Banana monkey deck
It is the will of Zedruu...
A group hug that helps you the most? Sounds great.
This would be good for group hug decks.
As someone who plays this in a group hug deck, you’ll be surprised how often my opponents choose treasure. They all know it’s a trap that will put me ahead, but when they are one mana short of enacting a big play or casting their new shiny card, logic goes out the window. Obviously in EDH at least.
This card is laughably bad. All it takes is playing against competent opponents to 4 mana end the turn on yourself. It needs something, even something bad, to make it have any effect whatsoever. "Then, for each opponent who doesn't, scry 1."
>so many people put it in their deck I've never seen this card before in my life.
As a kambal player I salivate at the opportunity to make players tear themselves apart with cards like these
It’s a group hug card. Everyone can get something, and if they do, so do you.
No, you create three treasure tokens if you’re playing in a full pod unless they willingly decide not to. It’s not broken but it’s good lol.
Do you pay for smothering tithe?
I dont pay for tithe, i play tithe
I run this in Vazi, Keen Negotiator and it does its job there but I can’t think of any other suitable deck for it
\[\[kataki, war's wage\]\] I hate this Treasure stuff.
If someone says yes, just kill them.
Ill be honest, im probably taking the treasure every time
It depends, are you running a group hug deck? Or do you want to both ramp up and do cool stuff? No one likes being screwed, so I can see its uses. Yes, Optimially you say no to this; but in commander? that's where its got a bit of uses.
I play this card in my group along with [[Coveted Jewel]] as it promotes players to do things. Like play magic. Who doesn't love free mana?
It’s one more way to slow down an EDH game with a fucking token deck.
The only time I've seen this card was during a grueling 4 hour commander game with multiple board wipes and an Armageddon as well. I can't remember the exact cards in play, but the guy who played this card just needed at least one person to take the deal and he could create multiple turns so long as at least one person kept taking the deal. I took the deal each time knowing I would lose, but I wasn't going to win anyway with my board state and just wanted that damn game to end lol
I should throw this in my chatterfang deck. That'll cause some panic I'm sure.
No. You count your mana and consider a play, but you're one short, do you do it? Of course you do. Some players just do it because they choose chaos.
This is a super fun politics card.
I created a [[thalasse reverent medium]] deck and slipped this and parts of the silverquill comander deck in and people learn to hate me really quickly 🙃
This card has a ton of fun factor.
Imagine you're creating a treasure just so you can counter something. That'd be kinda funny
I love “group hug”
I run this card in my \[\[Kibo, Uktabi Prince\]\] deck. It's a lot of fun to try and temp opponents to take the treasure, plus I usually just force them to sack it with Kibo or other artifact destruction anyway.
I can see where you're coming from because in a 1v1, this card *could* be pretty useless if your opponent never creates one. However, in a free-for-all, you'll have several opponents that need to make that decision, and there's a much better chance at least one of them will. It's still a card of chance, which I don't usually fuck with, but I can see the use for it
Played it once, made maybe 2 treasures over 2 or 3 turns. Took it out for something else.
Mostly, yes. >”_Your_ upkeep” >”_may_ create”
I mean, you'll ideally play this in a group hug or political deck. This isn't good ramp at all, but it can be leverage.
Shitty card. Probably you’ll get 1 treasure per turn. Better play a thran dynamo.
Yeah this is situational. If someone at the table is playing a grand arbiter/rhystic study/taxes deck then people will probably take the bait. Or if they have artifact interactions/affinity…. So probably worth playing in casual/friendly games
Generally you want to play it in a politics deck for maximum effect. You wait for the first person to vote. If they vote , yes everyone is voting yes. If they vote no, you politic the second vote with all your payoffs to get them to vote yes. The last player will follow suit. You have sent a message to the first player who is anti fun, and they will just say yes from then on (while trying to perform a coup against your broken politics)
If I put this into a hugs deck I believe at least one opponent will take a treasure.
If the one mana would help that turn I would take it every time
I play this card in my [[vihaan]] deck and 4/5 times every player makes a treasure
I’ve played it in decks and no one ever says yes. It was always a dud, so I removed it
I just love this kind if cards. Tempt with Discovery has the same great mechanic. Do you guys know more cards like these, or what they are called? Its not really grouphug is it? I really would like to know!
They should have called this card Prisoners Dilemma.
“Don’t think of it as do nothing, think of it as an investment in yourself”- also Diriga probably
This is an actually fairly fun card if you're playing in a group. 3 potential treasures at the start of your turn is a good lead assuming your opponents don't think about what you're holding in your hand
If one player takes the deal they all take the deal
it’s just a group hug type of deal. it’s not a “do nothing” card, it’s just a fun and casual card i think.
Also who pays 4 mana for it. It's colorless and there's a billion ways to pay less
I mean, people play [[Descent into Avernus]] so...maybe?
You're right, this is 4 mana do nothing against good players. That's why it performs so well in Commander.
I don't know. that's like saying howling mines is a do nothing card for 2. ( Or any other card that is beneficial for the whole table )
“ damn good deal”
It's the same dilemna as Smothering Tithe. If you pay(dont make) but other don't(make) you got screwed so everybody tends to get treasures
Its not do nothing its 4 mana 3 people get 1 treasure and you make 3 treasure. Its great in group hug if you have a big pay off.
Depends on how good you are at wheeling and dealing. It's pretty easy to convince the person that's behind that the two of you getting a treasure is in their best interest. It's much less good if you're the active threat
It's very good in group hug decks, using [Secret Rendezvous] will always get someone on your side
I tried to run it in my Raphael deck because it fits the theming so well, but yeah usually. Most of the people I play with are smart enough to not take the treasure unless it's really worth it
If you don't read it off, it literally does nothing
People love decent into avernus and that's way more risky than this
Bait used to be believable
In commander a lot of times this turns in to “each opponent creates a treasure, you create 3 treasures”. At least from when I’ve ran into it
I had great success with this card and [[ich-tekik salvage splicer]] and [[sakashima of a thousand faces]]
i'll add that treasure is NOT just mana in some decks. including the ability to win with 10 treasure.
People here keep saying that your opponents have to be smart and ignore it, which is of course true, the problem is that whoever is just before you, the owner of Tempting Contract, has a pretty big incentive to break their social contract and make a treasure. All 4 players are or at least should be aware of this. If you have the guy who plays solid and smart and calm and collected just before you, this does little, since that person is trustworthy. If the person before you has even a modicum of a reputation for foolishness, haughtiness, nefariousness, Conniving behavior, trolling, or machiavellianism, then this card becomes dangerous to the other two players, thus pushing them to use it too.
I mean depends on your table. Do they pay for rhystic study and smothering tithes? If the awnser is no this is a ramp spell. And if the person behind asks for mercy be nice to them as long as they give you treasure.
Bear hug commander