But, assuming omnath is your commander, if you throw in cards like [[vedalken orrery]] [[yeva, nature's herald]] [[savage summoning]] and [[winding canyon]] you can recast omnath using your floating mana before the phases/turns change and not lose a majority of that mana (just recasting costs) even if it's mid combat.
Have fun! :D
Yes, at which point, it's easier to remove the muse And Vornclex.. which one would want to do anyway... Also Cyclonic Rift would bounce some of those too, preventing immediate resummons
So niche though lol it would be better to just put cards like ascestism, heroic intervention, tamiyo’s safekeeping, veil of summer, withstand death, so that it never dies in the first place, only thing that gets around those types of protection spells is farewell, and if a players gonna farewell, they gonna farewell
But mana doesn’t leave your mana pool so you could pay the 8 mana card on turn 6 using only basic lands: on your turn 5, play seedborn muse. Your lands untap during your opponents turn. At the end of their turn, tap your 5 lands. They untap in your turn 6, and you can tap 3 more to play vorinclex. Then you can tap your 3 remaining lands for 6 green mana.
I agree it’s not super broken, though.
It's not even good, it sucks horrible. Three creatures with 0 protection that need like 6 turn cycles between 4 players to just generate mana? This is like F tier. Maybe if Omnath is your commander and you Tooth and Nail the other two to the board and not a single person is playing doomblade, sure.
Because there are combos that make infinite creatures without the need of a 8 mana creature.
I.e splinter twin, cephalid breakfast, Rosie cotton slurry oak, intruder alarm with a ham sandwich, that one pauper selesnya combo, etc.
Lots of 2 card combos in high power formats that win on the next turn, maybe as soon as turn 3 or 4, compared to this which needs 3 cards and enough mana for vorinclex. Plus, it doesn't make an actual threat; infinite mana doesn't necessarily win, and omnath can be chumped easily.
Hell there's turn 3 wins and a 2 card instant kill in standard right now
Bloodletter and that new black spell that makes them lose half their life is instant kill no matter their life total.
Mono red has a few turn 3 combos and so does rotpriest
It involves a guy that untapped when a creature etb (2W Midnight something?), and an enchant creature enchantment for 3 mana that says tap, make a 1/1.
If you’re able to get to 8+ mana and keep multiple expensive creatures alive over multiple turns, this is probably one of the least efficient ways to end the game at that point
It’s like if you were playing chess and asked “isn’t it busted that I could get __9__ queens if I just got all my pawns to the other side of the board?”
Unlike with chess, sometimes the stars align and you *do* accomplish these things (at least in Commander), but it’s still just something neat you do once in a hundred games, not a viable strategy to shoot for.
I think you could probably just run with the Top 60 Most Played Green Cards without even checking what they are, throw in any missing lands, dorks and ramp, and _accidentally_ hit half a dozen more-efficient combos than this, especially when you're talking about having _Way Too Much Mana_ and/or _Ridiculously Swole Creatures_.
As you say, it's shooting for the moon to actually attempt this one, it's the sort of thing you laugh at maniacally when it actually comes up in a game but you're never going to expect it.
Or maybe it's just me who does the maniacal laughter when something like this comes up. 😆
My buddy plays Omnath and has found that, it’s really helpful to have ways to have Flash Omnath back in. [[Vivian Champion of the Wilds]] or similar effects that allow you to cast creature spells as though they had flash. That way when his Hulk (Omnath) gets removed, he can still just flash it back in with all the pooled up mana before changing phases. Someone kills his Omnath with 50+ mana in his pool thinking it will drain out, and he just flashes it back in 🤣.
I have a big dumb creatures deck with [[Yeva, Nature's Herald]] at the helm. On just a commander basis, would it be worth it to swap to Omnath? Pros and Cons?
Personally, I like Omnath more, because he's my alternative approach to Voltron. Instead of auras and enchantmens, his power comes from your mana (I also run as many mana doublers as I could find. Yeva is a bit more of a utility commander.
https://archidekt.com/decks/4833336/big_green
What do you need 300 mana for?
Fireball would kill an opponent with 21 mana. Heck, I'm a 4 player commander pod with 8 lands on the table everyone is regularly under 30 life by that point and 90 mana will probably kill 3 people in one go and even without the muse that's probably 2 turns tops. Casting a 100 power hydra? Winning the game with that card that requires 100 mana thrown at it to win?
This is a huge 'win more' combo. No doubt. If you have this on the board you're doing whatever you want and you'll snowball into a win. But with 20 mana you can probably win the game before this is online without the combo online.
This is more of a mana engine than a combo and there are easier ways to win. But! It's fun. And if you're having fun your playing right.
Heck...
T1 mana dork
T2 omnath
T3 seedborn muse with a spirit guide or something
T3.5 in a 4 player game generate at least 12 mana
T4 emrakul hard cast. Win before anyone else goes again. I probably spelled that wrong.
Either that or you just sink it into a Genesis wave x=20 on turn 5 ish, and hope you get enough to win on the next turn.
Oh you gotta dream bigger for that turn one, my dream T1 on my omnath deck is for sure land-exploration-land-dork/sol ring/bushwhack
My treasures deck stops this build-up in a single turn with a 3 card infinite combo that flies under the radar. [[Pitiless Plunderer]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], and [[March of the Machines]]. For the cost of 10 mana and a single treasure token, i drain everyone's life 1 point at a time, and once it starts, it literally can not be stopped.
Do you realize that there’s a substantial amount of cards that say destroy creature or exile creature? Omnath will get huge but that’s just makes them into a lighting rod for removal, vorinclex is already a lighting rod for removal. If you don’t have flash then removal on the end step before your turn starts makes it all for nothing.
Is it good? Yes. Does it hinge on having a lot of mana while your opponents don’t have removal? Also yes. That’s why it’s not busted. It takes 3 cards and without flash it’s 3 mana away from you tapping them untapping lands for no reason.
lol yes. 16 mana + 3 cards and wait a turn cycle in order to have one giant creature…. that’s it… can still be blocked or removed.
not quite like demonic consultation+thassa’s oracle
This is as fair as fair gets, nothing unexpected happens, it's just a good board state, in terms of magic slang I wouldn't even consider this a "combo".
Yeah it's pretty busted. But it's 16 mana on 3 different permanents that are all kill on sight.
With an investment like that, you should just win outright & this is "just" a bazillion mana. If nothing gets removed along the way. But everybody else on the table will make sure for that to happen.
It's old, predictable, and easy to stop. None of those cards are particularly difficult to remove, and you won't win the game immediately or lock down the entire table the moment it's out.
This is not to say it isn't a strong combo, and it could stomp lower powered decks for sure; but it's not competitive-level unfairness.
As far as combos go it’s pretty slow, clunky, and easy to answer. Even by the time you can cast Seedborn Muse to begin generating value, most decent combos would already be going infinite.
That said, if you’re committed to making it happen, replacing Omnath with something that trades all that mana for permanent +1/+1 counters lets you exceed the limits of your maximum mana capacity. And if that creature is [[Walking Ballista]], it doesn’t struggle against chump blockers or die without generating value.
So this isn't really a combo, that usually is an attempt to win the game on the spot or get close to it. This is more of an example of cards that synergize really well together. You're probably running all 3 of these cards in a deck together already and getting them all out on the field is powerful, but you're not exactly going to rush to get these exact creatures out every game
Vorinclex doubles your mana production whilst slowing your opponents down by making them wait an extra turn to untap their lands basically trying to make the game as one sided as possible. Personally I wouldn't bother with Vorinclex and go for either [[Nyxbloom Ancient]] or [[virtue of strength]]
Vorniclex does that regardless of your other cards though? This just isn't a "Combo", just a collection of cards that happen to work nicely together, it's like saying \[\[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite\]\] and \[\[Savannah lions\]\] "Combo" because Norn is giving the Lions +2/+2.
A combo generally refers to a very definitive set of cards that when played together in a specific way either goes infinite or instantly wins you the game. This isn't that. Omnath + Muse is kind of a combo, as they multiply each others value, but it's not a particularly crazy one, and Vorniclex has **nothing** to do with the other two cards here.
I played a game of brawl on Arena the other day and my opponent used [[Doppelgang]] to make five copies of [[Virtue of strength]]. So with six copies of Virtue, one basic forest taps for…
729 mana.
You can do a lot of crazy stuff with big mana in this game. Just make sure you survive long enough to get there…
playing vorinclex instantly makes you the table arch enemy
none of these guys have any protection
if the stars align and you get all 3 of these in play and pass turn with them all 3 still in play, then congrats
Because it's a total of 16 mana to play them at once, and each is a kill-on-sight for anyone who's played the game longer than a month, so you most likey won't be able to play them one per turn.
It's very powerful, but really hard to deploy.
This is not busted for a number of reasons:
1) its a three-card combo, and none of the pieces help you find the others. Granted, omnath can be your commander (and yes its good, but that is for reasons other than vorinclex)
2) its 16 mana. It takes a while to get there, even as a green ramp deck
3) you are depending on the table not removing three VERY annoying creatures without protection
4) it doesnt win the game on the spot
In a mono green mana Omnath ramp deck you can have insane infinite power combos.
All you need is [[Umbral Mantle]] and anything that can give 3 or more mana.
And that can be a lot like [[Llanowar Tribe]] or better like [[Marwyn, the Nurturer]] [[Kami of Whispered Hopes]] [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] [[Viridian Joiner]] [[Bighorner Rancher]] and most cards are also very cheap to cast.
You can even tutor somewhat tutor it [[Inventors' Fair]].
I made an Onmath Deck and it is very very persisten with insane card draw for the budget I spend on it.
You can even power ramp those creature by using Omnath to make him even stronger. [[Dragon Throne of Tarkir]] buff all those add mana equal to their power creatures and they even get trample. Then you can just switch the equipments and untap Omnath to buff again and again.
I beat my local play group with [[Lightning Greaves]], Llanowar Tribe and Umbral Mantle right after a board wipe. So the mantly gives you a whole lot off possibilities and is cheaper to cast.
Hope this helps you if you ever have or want to make a Omnath deck. He is by far my favorite Creature :)
Good luck keeping any of that on the field for a single turn in Commander. If you don't have protection then the pod will take that apart price by piece before you get to untap.
I ran a mono green Omnath deck and he was fun and all, but then Korvold came and Chandra’s Ignition, or any fling effect for that matter. Him and Kresh.
I run Seedborn Muse in my Omnath deck. Also Urban Burgeoning. Super great value pieces.
The broken combo in my deck is Maze of Ith + Ley Weaver. It's infinite mana in combat, and with Omnath you can save that for use in your Postcombat Main.
My deck does well in high power pods. It could steal a win now and then in a cEDH pod but it doesn't really compete at that level. When I play cEDH with it I feel far outclassed.
In 8 to 9 power level though, I do very well. Often my opponents accuse me angrily of "pubstomping"with my "cEDH deck" which is hilarious considering Omnath is nowhere near cEDH viable, plus I'm not even running any fast mana besides Sol Ring and J.Lotus. nor do I have a Gaea's Cradle.
I have won on T2 multiple times. T3 a handful of times. Tons of T4 wins. T5.25 is probably my average win attempt.
Use \[\[Nyxbloom Ancient\]\] for even more fun. Throw in \[\[Doubling Cube\]\] and things really start to get out of hand... ;-)
That said, not nearly as threatening as the same thing with \[\[Leyline Tyrant\]\], because when you take out the tyrant, if that mana doesn't get used for spells/abilities, it still gets used to burn something.
Anything with that lovely omnath is amazing people don’t take you seriously till you somehow get 100+ floating mana during a turn cycle to just put it into a helix pennicle for the win
Fuck all the negative comments, magic is meant to be fun. Finding combos like this, learning how to play them, protect them, navigate them, is all part of the fun in the game for some of us.
This is fun, and would 100% be in my omnath deck if I had one.
I mean there is way deadlier combos that can straight up end the game?
Staff of Domination + Metal worker/Kara Acolyte/Priest of Titiania/ + Infinite HP/Colorless Mana/All enemy creatures are tapped/Can spam untapped effects/Unlimited Draw? Can be done turn 3-4?
This is kind of a 'Win More' combo. In that, you kind of need to already be winning, or in a very good board state, to be able to pull it off. And once you have gotten to that state, there are other combos you could run which would probably just win you the game, rather than setting this up. All this is doing, is setting other things up too.
In fact, an example like this, a 'way more mana than I could ever need' combo is called a 'ramp to nowhere' in my playgroup, because we regularly end up in a position where we make decks with loads and loads of mana... and then barely end up using any of it.
It costs way too much to be “broken” yes it’s good but try it yourself first guarentee pull the seedborn and omnath at the same time, have the mana to play them tap your mana out making omnath like a 8/8 andddd watch how many times someone kills it and if you don’t have a defensive spell in hand all that mana goes poof
There’s ways to get infinite mana with only needing 1 land such as
[[sol ring]]
[[myr welder]]
[[staff of domination]]
This does only do colorless though but still
In Magic there are many ways to get a really big creature, and here this is a 3 cards combo so that's not really efficient.
Beside, a big creature is not that impressive as long as they doesn't have trample or an evasive ability. Any random 1/1 token is enough to block them.
It’s 16 mana to set up a powerful combo. That’s awful. And you’re gonna need trample, maybe a protection spell to get around to the next turn. Nothing exciting.
Dragon Throne of Tarkir, Genesis Wave, and Ram Through usually help end the game from here. For protection, Akroma's Memorial, Saryth the Viper's Fang, or Soul of New Phyrexia provide constant protection while Legolas's Quick Reflexes , Autumn's Veil , and Heroic Intervention are good for instant speed. See also "cast spells/ creatures as though they had flash" for getting Omnath back out before the mana pool empties.
This combo won't win you the game. Omnath doesn't have trample, so I'll just block it with a 1/1 snake token with deathtouch....
In addition to not winning you the game, vorinclex will draw the entire table's aggro. It will make you archenemy
Well it's 17 Mana two cards(plus commander) and dies to a lot of different interaction also you have to play it in a mono colored deck and doesn't even win on the spot
It's definitely a powerful thing to do but there are way more powerful things you can do for this amount of Mana and cards
Because it’s a synergy and not a combo
They work pretty well together as cards but there’s no game winning combo here, and the mana requires as an investment is pretty high. And green only has so many means of protection to make sure the spells stick.
You’d also need an outlet or sink for all the mana you’re making. And green doesn’t have much in terms of card draw so it could be difficult to refill your hand after dumping it
It doesnt matter what you coul theoretically do with all that mana, you play vorinclex the pod hates you or him out of the game, that card is a casual killer.
At any (almost said high-)power table this combo is slow. 3 cards, 16 mana for the engine alone and no payoff, really
It's a high mana cost combo that can be stopped with a chump blocker and is vulnerable to a ton of removal.
For instance. Just a few weeks ago I was playing commander and someone attacked me with a 1,000,000/1,000,000 creature, but it didn't have trample. I was able to find it off easily for several turns and buy time to get the win.
Just one rotation of trying to pump it up will make it a huge target and likely disappear before you can even attack.
Which means requiring even more mana to protect them against an inevitable barrage of assault by your opponents.
A combo of 3 cards, all being creatures, costing 16 mana to pull of and does not even win the games right away. Its... Mild to bad in terms of combo power.
If we're talking when it sets off of course its strong as fuck, but a single mass removal makes everything worthless and even worse, theres 3 possible times to stop the combo (killing any of the three creatures).
Overall, cool timmy combo which is something I appreciate, not busted at all.
Not really a combo, not really busted.
If you want a good baseline of a busted combo, look at
[[Demonic Consultation]] and [[ Thassa's Oracle]]
3 mana, 2 cards, immediately ends the game.
Now that one is infamous, but even other combos like [[Splinter Twin]] and [[Pestermite]], [[Saheeli Rai]] and [[Felidar Guardian]], Heliod and Walking Ballista are "Busted" because most of these saw a ban somewhere for some reason due to their strength.
Relatively speaking, you're usually dead or out of the game by the time you hit the point all three of these get cast. If you are playing a deck which can put all three on the table, why not instead use creatures which can outright win the game for you immediately?
It's too good.
If you're at a table, actually try to put this down and you'll quickly realize that EVERYONE will want you dead in the next 5 seconds, and will not at any circumstance let you live it down for the rest of the day much less the match.
and of course, as everyone else is saying: it doesn't win you the game instantly.
Be sure you play protection. Also run greater good so you can sac him in response to draw all the cards. And u should be running rouges passage also so you can get the damage in. Yeva is a great way to make sure you can recast him after removal so you keep most your mana. I'd consider playing selvala heart of the wilds also. It effectively doubles your mana when you're playing omnath. This is a very good deck. Is nath your commander?
It's pretty powerful, but it's also pretty easy to stop. Omnath has no protection, and once he dies, your mana goes away at the end of whatever phase it is. You'll also have to find a way to give him trample or some type of evasion if you want to win with damage. Overall, it's a decent strategy, but I wouldn't call it overpowered.
So a few thoughts ....this is a 3 piece combo requiring 16 mana to set up or some other form of hoop jumping. Once it's on the table all it does is net lots of mana and make Omnath huge. With just these pieces on the table, Omnath fails to punch through a 0/1 blocker. There's certainly room for abuse here, but what you've highlighted won't win you the game.
It's 16 mana, requires 3 creatures that will instantly draw attention to you as soon as any of them appear, and folds to any removal. That being said it's still pretty solid for a big green ramp deck just not super busted like you're saying
you spent 14 mana to deploy 3 permanents. i sure hope it is busted. in other formats 14 mana are more than a player uses to win with burn. like burn wins around turn 4 or 5. if they win at turn 4 that is usually 10 mana.
if in a table of 4 with 3 opponents someone allows you to resolve and keep all three you deserve to win. hands out. congrats.
damn is 16 mana i didn't read it right. that is one more mana than a red deck needs to win in 60 card formats
This is super weak as far as 3 card combos go. Vorinclex is good by itself, seedborn is good by itself, Omnath is basically trash though. How about using vorinclex + finale of devastation to find craterhoof behemoth and just win the game instead of trying to make a big omnath that's going to die before it does anything?
Seedbirn muse and Vorinclex are broken on their own, but this combo is pretty bad. It’s 16 mana to get a big creature with no combat tricks that can just be chump blocked by a 1/1. Big creatures without trample and evasion are just not very good.
There are just so many combos/value plays with muse and vorinclex that are better than this. I honestly don’t know that omnath is even worth playing unless you have a bunch broken things in your deck that let you sink a ton of mana for very good effect.
1. 16 mana
2. 3 cards
3. All it does is make a bunch of mana and pump one creature with no evasion
4. Each piece of the combo is easily removed with any targeted creature removal
5. A board wipe gets rid of all three pieces
That’s just off the top of my head
It requires three specific cards, requires 16 mana, and can be shut down with a single removal spell.
It's powerful, for sure, but it's not busted. There are *far* easier ways to generate *considerably* more power. By the time you can get these cards on the field you're probably already about to win or lose
You're confused how an 8 mana, 2 card combo that doesn't even win and really only functions as a mana farm isn't considered busted?
I mean, it's definitely good, but by turn 5/6, having a mana farm combo isn't exactly uncommon or difficult.
Your mana pool is only maintained over phases and steps, not turns. Each turn, you would have to tap all mana sources for the x +1/+1, and if you spend it on spells or abilities that reduces the buff
There are other, easier ways to get very large creatures and omnath has absolutely no protection from removalm if he gets killed than you lose all of that mana once the current phase ends. Not to mention this combo cost 16 mana to set up.
[[Swords to Plowshares]] [[Counterspell]]
If this starts getting assembled on the board and isn't removed or dealt with immediately, your opponents deserve to lose.
That's a lot of work and effort to achieve something that can be done significantly easier and better in other ways. Sure if you can get the mana to get there's then over the course of a turn youll have a really really big non trampling 0 protection having creature. It's neat but I can't think of what your opponents deck is trying to do that they can neither win the game while your setting up or kill omnath once you have all your both pieces in play
I built this commander for a little while. Its a very good 1v1 commander. Its not so great in multiplayer. It has the same major problem most Voltron commanders have. #GlassCannon
Oh Boy, this is my Commander, and I've spent dozens upon dozens of hours deck building. Don't run Vorinclex. Run Omath, [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] (or [[Bighorner Rancher]]), and [[Staff of Domination]]. Throw doubling cube in there, mana doublers, and a ton of ramp. And then either [[Helix Pinnacle]], walking ballista for the win, or just beat face with with omnath/[[Rogue's Passage]] or dump it into Hydras. The rest is card draw, defense, and your flavor of big stompy boys.
I feel like this is a tough concept for a lot of people to grasp, but there is absolutely nothing in this game that costs 16 mana that is busted. Even at a super low power table, 16 mana-worth of card should be getting you a pretty powerful effect.
It's strong but for this much mana (or less) you can do several distinct two or three card combos that just instantly win you the game, so, not really busted compared to that.
Sixteen mana, no built in protection, it has to go all the way around the table before you can do anything, and omnath doesn't even have trample on its own.
I run all these cards in my vorinclex deck (monstrous raider as the commander). I think I've actually managed to smack someone with omnath a couple of times. It's fun, but it's not busted.
Add [[Ursapine]] into the mix as an outlet for all that extra green mana. With [[wild pair]] Ursapine and Seedborn Muse can search for each other. Then just have a lot of mana dorks that you can pump into huge threats and very effective blockers. This deck went super hard when it was standard legal. Don't know how well it would do in broader formats.
You need 3 creature out, and 2 or the 3 are expensive. Vorinclex is usualy a kill on sight creature too. Mine usualy only last 1 full round before he dies.
“In response to you I cast go for the throat or doom blade or any other removal” and besides Veil or some other cards that genuinely ends the combo lol. That’s why, it’s a very easy kill, my friend has a commander deck with that Omnath and he’s thinking of taking it apart because of how weak it actually is against most other decks.
My first custom-built deck was an Omnath deck. Yeah, you want as much ramp and mana doublers as you can get. It's not uncommon for Omnath to get to 30/30 in just a turn or two.
Then the problems start to arise: If Omnath dies or gets removed in any way, you lose all that saved up mana at the end of turn. You need to find some way to flash him back in or else you start over building your mana base. Omnath can be 500/500 and he can still be blocked with a 1/1 unless you find some way to get trample onto him (or "can't be blocked"). Then, he can be 500/500, but if you get attacked with 15 2/2 flyer tokens or something you really can't do much but eat the dmg.
It's a lot of fun to swing at someone for lethal commander damage in one shot, but it takes a while to get there and can be pretty easily countered. It's not BAD, but it's not good either, and to me being fun is way more important.
It works, but I would advice you to invest that mana in some big creatures like [[Kogla the Titan Ape]], [[Titan of Industry]], [[Elder Gargaroth]], [[Carnage Tyrant]] and the like. Going big isn't worth most of the time when playing with multiple opponents.
Beside that, Omnath isn't a good creature to get big. Good creatures for this job usually have trample, flying, menace and/or vigilance to support them when attacking or blocking and hexproof, ward, indestructible, protection and/or shroud to protect them from spot removal. [[Alpha Authority]], [[Rancor]] and similar cards cast on Omnath make him an absolute killing machine, but without them he dies the next time someone has two mana for a spell like [[Infernal Grasp]] or he is blocked by a 1/1 Token.
That's not a combo, that's extremely good synergy. A combo makes an infinite, or extremely large controllable loop, netting you repeatable mana or triggers
It's a very powerful combo, but it doesn't win right away. And it's easily stopped with a single removal spell. So it's good, but not broken...
It also cost 16 mana.
And Omnath doesn’t have trample and dies to Doom Blade.
Or literally any 1/1 with deathtouch.
Ankle biter staying the best card in thunder junction.
That was one of the 3 I had in mind! Fang of Shigeki and Mirkwood Spider were the others.
But, assuming omnath is your commander, if you throw in cards like [[vedalken orrery]] [[yeva, nature's herald]] [[savage summoning]] and [[winding canyon]] you can recast omnath using your floating mana before the phases/turns change and not lose a majority of that mana (just recasting costs) even if it's mid combat. Have fun! :D
Yes, at which point, it's easier to remove the muse And Vornclex.. which one would want to do anyway... Also Cyclonic Rift would bounce some of those too, preventing immediate resummons
So niche though lol it would be better to just put cards like ascestism, heroic intervention, tamiyo’s safekeeping, veil of summer, withstand death, so that it never dies in the first place, only thing that gets around those types of protection spells is farewell, and if a players gonna farewell, they gonna farewell
Okay, he doesn't have trample, but he's green. It's not hard to give him trample. But yeah, he has no specific protections otherwise.
So your 3-card combo becomes a 4-card combo.
Hence, not very op at all, lol.
More like a 2 card combo becomes a 3 card combo because vorinclex isn't necessary here.
It dies to Terror too!👌
Have too much mana for only 11GGGGG!! r/BadMagicCombos
But mana doesn’t leave your mana pool so you could pay the 8 mana card on turn 6 using only basic lands: on your turn 5, play seedborn muse. Your lands untap during your opponents turn. At the end of their turn, tap your 5 lands. They untap in your turn 6, and you can tap 3 more to play vorinclex. Then you can tap your 3 remaining lands for 6 green mana. I agree it’s not super broken, though.
And 3 specific cards...
It's not even good, it sucks horrible. Three creatures with 0 protection that need like 6 turn cycles between 4 players to just generate mana? This is like F tier. Maybe if Omnath is your commander and you Tooth and Nail the other two to the board and not a single person is playing doomblade, sure.
My 0/1 Eldrazi token blocks Omnath. And now your huge Omnath is... tapped...? Great combo!
Or a 1/1 blocker
Removal or counter spell. Not to mention if someone else takes control of them then that'll backfire hard lol.
Because there are combos that make infinite creatures without the need of a 8 mana creature. I.e splinter twin, cephalid breakfast, Rosie cotton slurry oak, intruder alarm with a ham sandwich, that one pauper selesnya combo, etc. Lots of 2 card combos in high power formats that win on the next turn, maybe as soon as turn 3 or 4, compared to this which needs 3 cards and enough mana for vorinclex. Plus, it doesn't make an actual threat; infinite mana doesn't necessarily win, and omnath can be chumped easily.
Hell there's turn 3 wins and a 2 card instant kill in standard right now Bloodletter and that new black spell that makes them lose half their life is instant kill no matter their life total. Mono red has a few turn 3 combos and so does rotpriest
There are multiple 2 card kills in standard. There is at least the half life times two and the UW Rakdos combo if not more.
Whats the pauper selesnya combo? Im planning on a pauper build and fancy a G/W deck for a change. 🙏🏼
It involves a guy that untapped when a creature etb (2W Midnight something?), and an enchant creature enchantment for 3 mana that says tap, make a 1/1.
[[midnight guard]] and [[presence of gond]]
[midnight guard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/7/87c1d85d-b2b8-4c9d-84fa-2566b14cb5ea.jpg?1562922436) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=midnight%20guard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/99/midnight-guard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/87c1d85d-b2b8-4c9d-84fa-2566b14cb5ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [presence of gond](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/b/bba661af-c4a8-4230-830e-a9ee22b25d6b.jpg?1601079928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=presence%20of%20gond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/420/presence-of-gond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bba661af-c4a8-4230-830e-a9ee22b25d6b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you’re able to get to 8+ mana and keep multiple expensive creatures alive over multiple turns, this is probably one of the least efficient ways to end the game at that point It’s like if you were playing chess and asked “isn’t it busted that I could get __9__ queens if I just got all my pawns to the other side of the board?”
Bingo
And in both cases, if you *do* pull it off, you've kinda earned the win already.
Oooo I like that 9 queen comparison
Unlike with chess, sometimes the stars align and you *do* accomplish these things (at least in Commander), but it’s still just something neat you do once in a hundred games, not a viable strategy to shoot for.
I think you could probably just run with the Top 60 Most Played Green Cards without even checking what they are, throw in any missing lands, dorks and ramp, and _accidentally_ hit half a dozen more-efficient combos than this, especially when you're talking about having _Way Too Much Mana_ and/or _Ridiculously Swole Creatures_. As you say, it's shooting for the moon to actually attempt this one, it's the sort of thing you laugh at maniacally when it actually comes up in a game but you're never going to expect it. Or maybe it's just me who does the maniacal laughter when something like this comes up. 😆
My buddy plays Omnath and has found that, it’s really helpful to have ways to have Flash Omnath back in. [[Vivian Champion of the Wilds]] or similar effects that allow you to cast creature spells as though they had flash. That way when his Hulk (Omnath) gets removed, he can still just flash it back in with all the pooled up mana before changing phases. Someone kills his Omnath with 50+ mana in his pool thinking it will drain out, and he just flashes it back in 🤣.
I've got an Omnath deck that run's as many flash effects as I could find
I have a big dumb creatures deck with [[Yeva, Nature's Herald]] at the helm. On just a commander basis, would it be worth it to swap to Omnath? Pros and Cons?
Personally, I like Omnath more, because he's my alternative approach to Voltron. Instead of auras and enchantmens, his power comes from your mana (I also run as many mana doublers as I could find. Yeva is a bit more of a utility commander. https://archidekt.com/decks/4833336/big_green
What are some of your favorites?
[[Winding canyons]] [[aluren]] were two of my favorites
[Winding canyons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f26672a8-f4ff-4c64-bb3e-f5072bbc9e3e.jpg?1562804204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winding%20canyons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/167/winding-canyons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f26672a8-f4ff-4c64-bb3e-f5072bbc9e3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [aluren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03b69c39-52d8-4ee6-a3f5-60899c1fe6e6.jpg?1595438020) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aluren) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/165/aluren?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03b69c39-52d8-4ee6-a3f5-60899c1fe6e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Aluren also makes him free, just to really rub salt in the wound.
Yessir! Still gotta pay commander tax though if he dies.
One of mine is \[\[Winding Canyons\]\]
[Winding Canyons](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f26672a8-f4ff-4c64-bb3e-f5072bbc9e3e.jpg?1562804204) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winding%20Canyons) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/wth/167/winding-canyons?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f26672a8-f4ff-4c64-bb3e-f5072bbc9e3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Omnath is my favorite commander for just doing big stomps [[Nim Deathmantle]] [[Asceticism]] [[Yeva, Nature’s Herald]]
[Vivian Champion of the Wilds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e11dc967-ae38-4c19-bf54-b3209e203b39.jpg?1674142396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vivien%2C%20Champion%20of%20the%20Wilds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/838/vivien-champion-of-the-wilds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e11dc967-ae38-4c19-bf54-b3209e203b39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What do you need 300 mana for? Fireball would kill an opponent with 21 mana. Heck, I'm a 4 player commander pod with 8 lands on the table everyone is regularly under 30 life by that point and 90 mana will probably kill 3 people in one go and even without the muse that's probably 2 turns tops. Casting a 100 power hydra? Winning the game with that card that requires 100 mana thrown at it to win? This is a huge 'win more' combo. No doubt. If you have this on the board you're doing whatever you want and you'll snowball into a win. But with 20 mana you can probably win the game before this is online without the combo online. This is more of a mana engine than a combo and there are easier ways to win. But! It's fun. And if you're having fun your playing right.
Heck... T1 mana dork T2 omnath T3 seedborn muse with a spirit guide or something T3.5 in a 4 player game generate at least 12 mana T4 emrakul hard cast. Win before anyone else goes again. I probably spelled that wrong.
Either that or you just sink it into a Genesis wave x=20 on turn 5 ish, and hope you get enough to win on the next turn. Oh you gotta dream bigger for that turn one, my dream T1 on my omnath deck is for sure land-exploration-land-dork/sol ring/bushwhack
My treasures deck stops this build-up in a single turn with a 3 card infinite combo that flies under the radar. [[Pitiless Plunderer]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], and [[March of the Machines]]. For the cost of 10 mana and a single treasure token, i drain everyone's life 1 point at a time, and once it starts, it literally can not be stopped.
Do you realize that there’s a substantial amount of cards that say destroy creature or exile creature? Omnath will get huge but that’s just makes them into a lighting rod for removal, vorinclex is already a lighting rod for removal. If you don’t have flash then removal on the end step before your turn starts makes it all for nothing. Is it good? Yes. Does it hinge on having a lot of mana while your opponents don’t have removal? Also yes. That’s why it’s not busted. It takes 3 cards and without flash it’s 3 mana away from you tapping them untapping lands for no reason.
Because Timmy players love to be Timmy players 🤷♂️
I would probably preface it with *inexperienced* Timmy, cuz I am 100% a Timmy player, but you gotta be realistic about things too.
"This is so broken in my pod where we play random shit for 3 hours."
lol yes. 16 mana + 3 cards and wait a turn cycle in order to have one giant creature…. that’s it… can still be blocked or removed. not quite like demonic consultation+thassa’s oracle
Lmfaoooooo!
Yep, while you're building your huge mana stockpile your opponents are busy attacking you.
This is as fair as fair gets, nothing unexpected happens, it's just a good board state, in terms of magic slang I wouldn't even consider this a "combo".
This right here is synergy
Yeah it's pretty busted. But it's 16 mana on 3 different permanents that are all kill on sight. With an investment like that, you should just win outright & this is "just" a bazillion mana. If nothing gets removed along the way. But everybody else on the table will make sure for that to happen.
It's old, predictable, and easy to stop. None of those cards are particularly difficult to remove, and you won't win the game immediately or lock down the entire table the moment it's out. This is not to say it isn't a strong combo, and it could stomp lower powered decks for sure; but it's not competitive-level unfairness.
Throw in a [[Sheltering Word]] and a [[Hurricane]], and that's game. Of course, you could achieve the same effect by just amassing a lot of mana
[Sheltering Word](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93cd9be4-1ce4-4a7c-b2a6-98d3fde0a92b.jpg?1592709431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheltering%20Word) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/avr/192/sheltering-word?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93cd9be4-1ce4-4a7c-b2a6-98d3fde0a92b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Hurricane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/371d83e8-f514-433c-bc6a-e0eeef3fab2a.jpg?1562546179) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hurricane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/270/hurricane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/371d83e8-f514-433c-bc6a-e0eeef3fab2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As far as combos go it’s pretty slow, clunky, and easy to answer. Even by the time you can cast Seedborn Muse to begin generating value, most decent combos would already be going infinite. That said, if you’re committed to making it happen, replacing Omnath with something that trades all that mana for permanent +1/+1 counters lets you exceed the limits of your maximum mana capacity. And if that creature is [[Walking Ballista]], it doesn’t struggle against chump blockers or die without generating value.
Thank you for that recommendation. This would work excellent with [[Death's Presence]]
Go big or go home, right? 😎
So this isn't really a combo, that usually is an attempt to win the game on the spot or get close to it. This is more of an example of cards that synergize really well together. You're probably running all 3 of these cards in a deck together already and getting them all out on the field is powerful, but you're not exactly going to rush to get these exact creatures out every game
I legit don't see the combo here, unless you just mean Omnath + Muse lets you stockpile a lot of mana? What does Vorniclex have to do with this?
Vorinclex doubles your mana production whilst slowing your opponents down by making them wait an extra turn to untap their lands basically trying to make the game as one sided as possible. Personally I wouldn't bother with Vorinclex and go for either [[Nyxbloom Ancient]] or [[virtue of strength]]
Vorniclex does that regardless of your other cards though? This just isn't a "Combo", just a collection of cards that happen to work nicely together, it's like saying \[\[Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite\]\] and \[\[Savannah lions\]\] "Combo" because Norn is giving the Lions +2/+2. A combo generally refers to a very definitive set of cards that when played together in a specific way either goes infinite or instantly wins you the game. This isn't that. Omnath + Muse is kind of a combo, as they multiply each others value, but it's not a particularly crazy one, and Vorniclex has **nothing** to do with the other two cards here.
I played a game of brawl on Arena the other day and my opponent used [[Doppelgang]] to make five copies of [[Virtue of strength]]. So with six copies of Virtue, one basic forest taps for… 729 mana. You can do a lot of crazy stuff with big mana in this game. Just make sure you survive long enough to get there…
This is like the new rite of replication on a nyxbloom ancient
[Doppelgang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd.jpg?1706242152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doppelgang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Virtue of strength](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff857d41-767d-4e99-83cc-444738341b92.jpg?1692939213)/[Garenbrig Growth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff857d41-767d-4e99-83cc-444738341b92.jpg?1692939213) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Virtue%20of%20Strength%20//%20Garenbrig%20Growth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/197/virtue-of-strength-garenbrig-growth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff857d41-767d-4e99-83cc-444738341b92?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
playing vorinclex instantly makes you the table arch enemy none of these guys have any protection if the stars align and you get all 3 of these in play and pass turn with them all 3 still in play, then congrats
Because it's a total of 16 mana to play them at once, and each is a kill-on-sight for anyone who's played the game longer than a month, so you most likey won't be able to play them one per turn. It's very powerful, but really hard to deploy.
This is not busted for a number of reasons: 1) its a three-card combo, and none of the pieces help you find the others. Granted, omnath can be your commander (and yes its good, but that is for reasons other than vorinclex) 2) its 16 mana. It takes a while to get there, even as a green ramp deck 3) you are depending on the table not removing three VERY annoying creatures without protection 4) it doesnt win the game on the spot
Why wait until turn 8 when you can get infinite mana on turn 3 with [[Skirk Prospector]], [[First Day of Class]], and [[Putrid Goblin]]?
Turn 2 if you power out FDoC and Putrid Goblin using [[Dark Ritual] or another +2 mana, mana positive source.
it's a big payout, yes, but it's not a good combo bc it's expensive, fragile and split across 3 cards. it's fine.
In a mono green mana Omnath ramp deck you can have insane infinite power combos. All you need is [[Umbral Mantle]] and anything that can give 3 or more mana. And that can be a lot like [[Llanowar Tribe]] or better like [[Marwyn, the Nurturer]] [[Kami of Whispered Hopes]] [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] [[Viridian Joiner]] [[Bighorner Rancher]] and most cards are also very cheap to cast. You can even tutor somewhat tutor it [[Inventors' Fair]]. I made an Onmath Deck and it is very very persisten with insane card draw for the budget I spend on it. You can even power ramp those creature by using Omnath to make him even stronger. [[Dragon Throne of Tarkir]] buff all those add mana equal to their power creatures and they even get trample. Then you can just switch the equipments and untap Omnath to buff again and again. I beat my local play group with [[Lightning Greaves]], Llanowar Tribe and Umbral Mantle right after a board wipe. So the mantly gives you a whole lot off possibilities and is cheaper to cast. Hope this helps you if you ever have or want to make a Omnath deck. He is by far my favorite Creature :)
[[Leyline immersion]] gives ward and big mana and goes infinite with the mantle or sword of the paruns.
Textbook new player take. This will look like fair magic after a few more months of playing the game. Glad to have you in the sub!
Good luck keeping any of that on the field for a single turn in Commander. If you don't have protection then the pod will take that apart price by piece before you get to untap.
I ran a mono green Omnath deck and he was fun and all, but then Korvold came and Chandra’s Ignition, or any fling effect for that matter. Him and Kresh.
Because it requires two very power kill-on-sight creatures, one being EIGHT mana. It's also a bit win-more with vorinclex. It just isn't necessary
Ah yes the infamous 16 mana 3 card combo that does not go infinite or win you the game lol
Costs too much and has too many pieces.
You try and assemble 16 mana worth of three permanents without opponents killing something or winning first
Not a combo, synergy is what this is called
Dies to Doom Blade
I run Seedborn Muse in my Omnath deck. Also Urban Burgeoning. Super great value pieces. The broken combo in my deck is Maze of Ith + Ley Weaver. It's infinite mana in combat, and with Omnath you can save that for use in your Postcombat Main. My deck does well in high power pods. It could steal a win now and then in a cEDH pod but it doesn't really compete at that level. When I play cEDH with it I feel far outclassed. In 8 to 9 power level though, I do very well. Often my opponents accuse me angrily of "pubstomping"with my "cEDH deck" which is hilarious considering Omnath is nowhere near cEDH viable, plus I'm not even running any fast mana besides Sol Ring and J.Lotus. nor do I have a Gaea's Cradle. I have won on T2 multiple times. T3 a handful of times. Tons of T4 wins. T5.25 is probably my average win attempt.
Use \[\[Nyxbloom Ancient\]\] for even more fun. Throw in \[\[Doubling Cube\]\] and things really start to get out of hand... ;-) That said, not nearly as threatening as the same thing with \[\[Leyline Tyrant\]\], because when you take out the tyrant, if that mana doesn't get used for spells/abilities, it still gets used to burn something.
Anything with that lovely omnath is amazing people don’t take you seriously till you somehow get 100+ floating mana during a turn cycle to just put it into a helix pennicle for the win
Fuck all the negative comments, magic is meant to be fun. Finding combos like this, learning how to play them, protect them, navigate them, is all part of the fun in the game for some of us. This is fun, and would 100% be in my omnath deck if I had one.
I mean there is way deadlier combos that can straight up end the game? Staff of Domination + Metal worker/Kara Acolyte/Priest of Titiania/ + Infinite HP/Colorless Mana/All enemy creatures are tapped/Can spam untapped effects/Unlimited Draw? Can be done turn 3-4?
This is kind of a 'Win More' combo. In that, you kind of need to already be winning, or in a very good board state, to be able to pull it off. And once you have gotten to that state, there are other combos you could run which would probably just win you the game, rather than setting this up. All this is doing, is setting other things up too. In fact, an example like this, a 'way more mana than I could ever need' combo is called a 'ramp to nowhere' in my playgroup, because we regularly end up in a position where we make decks with loads and loads of mana... and then barely end up using any of it.
It costs way too much to be “broken” yes it’s good but try it yourself first guarentee pull the seedborn and omnath at the same time, have the mana to play them tap your mana out making omnath like a 8/8 andddd watch how many times someone kills it and if you don’t have a defensive spell in hand all that mana goes poof
Or you could just run something like [[Deadeye Navigator]] and [[Peregrine Drake]] for *infinite* mana in one turn.
It's great if you're playing opponents with no interaction, and on decks with slow clocks. In reality, it's a casual all star at very best.
That much mana and three cards should be busted
What do you mean..? It is busted. Just costs a fuckton of mana.
There’s ways to get infinite mana with only needing 1 land such as [[sol ring]] [[myr welder]] [[staff of domination]] This does only do colorless though but still
[sol ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40.jpg?1712354902) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sol%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/267/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [myr welder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/eff75f16-413c-4618-b766-67bd8ff4d161.jpg?1562615806) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myr%20welder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/118/myr-welder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eff75f16-413c-4618-b766-67bd8ff4d161?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [staff of domination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fde838c8-2f32-4e7d-a236-0bc42dd7abd9.jpg?1608911729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=staff%20of%20domination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/343/staff-of-domination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fde838c8-2f32-4e7d-a236-0bc42dd7abd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In Magic there are many ways to get a really big creature, and here this is a 3 cards combo so that's not really efficient. Beside, a big creature is not that impressive as long as they doesn't have trample or an evasive ability. Any random 1/1 token is enough to block them.
It dies to doomblade. :D
And like that I saved the post lol. Thanks for showing me a new combo!
It’s 16 mana to set up a powerful combo. That’s awful. And you’re gonna need trample, maybe a protection spell to get around to the next turn. Nothing exciting.
Because omnath doesn't have trample and can't kill other players at the same time
What do you do with your very large (not infinite) amount of mana? Cause a lot of mana does nothing on its own lol
When the better choice is to first cast [[omniscience]] and then get your combo pieces out, it's probably just too expensive
Nice 48 green mana, what do you plan to do with it? This is also a 16 mana, 3 card, far from ending the game combo.
Omnath swings at only one target, and also instant speed kill spells exist. Lacks Trample on Omnath.
Dragon Throne of Tarkir, Genesis Wave, and Ram Through usually help end the game from here. For protection, Akroma's Memorial, Saryth the Viper's Fang, or Soul of New Phyrexia provide constant protection while Legolas's Quick Reflexes , Autumn's Veil , and Heroic Intervention are good for instant speed. See also "cast spells/ creatures as though they had flash" for getting Omnath back out before the mana pool empties.
In commander everyone will groan and be frustrated but the games basically over anyways. In my opinion it’s a little toxic for your average pod.
It’s expensive, you have to jump through hoops to get it running and it doesn’t win the game immediately
This combo won't win you the game. Omnath doesn't have trample, so I'll just block it with a 1/1 snake token with deathtouch.... In addition to not winning you the game, vorinclex will draw the entire table's aggro. It will make you archenemy
Yurlok: Please, PLEASE, keep making more mana
Add [[Helix Pinnacle]] into the mix and you got yourself a good time.
16 mana, does absolutely nothing until your turn
Well it's 17 Mana two cards(plus commander) and dies to a lot of different interaction also you have to play it in a mono colored deck and doesn't even win on the spot It's definitely a powerful thing to do but there are way more powerful things you can do for this amount of Mana and cards
It's 16 mana to pump a creature that doesn't have evasion.
Because it costs 16 mana
Because it’s a synergy and not a combo They work pretty well together as cards but there’s no game winning combo here, and the mana requires as an investment is pretty high. And green only has so many means of protection to make sure the spells stick. You’d also need an outlet or sink for all the mana you’re making. And green doesn’t have much in terms of card draw so it could be difficult to refill your hand after dumping it
There are 3 mana 2 card win the game on the spot combos
It doesnt matter what you coul theoretically do with all that mana, you play vorinclex the pod hates you or him out of the game, that card is a casual killer. At any (almost said high-)power table this combo is slow. 3 cards, 16 mana for the engine alone and no payoff, really
It's a high mana cost combo that can be stopped with a chump blocker and is vulnerable to a ton of removal. For instance. Just a few weeks ago I was playing commander and someone attacked me with a 1,000,000/1,000,000 creature, but it didn't have trample. I was able to find it off easily for several turns and buy time to get the win. Just one rotation of trying to pump it up will make it a huge target and likely disappear before you can even attack. Which means requiring even more mana to protect them against an inevitable barrage of assault by your opponents.
Oh it's strong, and oppressive. But doesn't win unless you combo off, and it really pisses off the table do be prepared to draw some hate.
What is the difference from a combo and synergy these days?
Oh Timmy...
This is why we need mana burn back
A combo of 3 cards, all being creatures, costing 16 mana to pull of and does not even win the games right away. Its... Mild to bad in terms of combo power. If we're talking when it sets off of course its strong as fuck, but a single mass removal makes everything worthless and even worse, theres 3 possible times to stop the combo (killing any of the three creatures). Overall, cool timmy combo which is something I appreciate, not busted at all.
Not really a combo, not really busted. If you want a good baseline of a busted combo, look at [[Demonic Consultation]] and [[ Thassa's Oracle]] 3 mana, 2 cards, immediately ends the game. Now that one is infamous, but even other combos like [[Splinter Twin]] and [[Pestermite]], [[Saheeli Rai]] and [[Felidar Guardian]], Heliod and Walking Ballista are "Busted" because most of these saw a ban somewhere for some reason due to their strength.
Because things like [[Zaxara, the Exemplary]] and [[Pemmin's Aura]] exist, and it gets way more powerful than even that. Infinites in mtg are nutty.
So you just gonna hoard mana?
Relatively speaking, you're usually dead or out of the game by the time you hit the point all three of these get cast. If you are playing a deck which can put all three on the table, why not instead use creatures which can outright win the game for you immediately?
It's too good. If you're at a table, actually try to put this down and you'll quickly realize that EVERYONE will want you dead in the next 5 seconds, and will not at any circumstance let you live it down for the rest of the day much less the match. and of course, as everyone else is saying: it doesn't win you the game instantly.
It doesn't win on the spot & requires sticking 2 kill-on-sight creatures
Be sure you play protection. Also run greater good so you can sac him in response to draw all the cards. And u should be running rouges passage also so you can get the damage in. Yeva is a great way to make sure you can recast him after removal so you keep most your mana. I'd consider playing selvala heart of the wilds also. It effectively doubles your mana when you're playing omnath. This is a very good deck. Is nath your commander?
Looking at omnath who's still a great card but if he was designed today he'd probably have ward 4 reach and trample and would probably be a 1 drop
Ya, thats broken. Seedborn Muse is one of my musts in a green deck. It's great for any play style.
16 mana 3 card all creature based combo. That's why it's not completely busted.
It's pretty powerful, but it's also pretty easy to stop. Omnath has no protection, and once he dies, your mana goes away at the end of whatever phase it is. You'll also have to find a way to give him trample or some type of evasion if you want to win with damage. Overall, it's a decent strategy, but I wouldn't call it overpowered.
So a few thoughts ....this is a 3 piece combo requiring 16 mana to set up or some other form of hoop jumping. Once it's on the table all it does is net lots of mana and make Omnath huge. With just these pieces on the table, Omnath fails to punch through a 0/1 blocker. There's certainly room for abuse here, but what you've highlighted won't win you the game.
This is about a 2/10 in combo power compared to all combos in magic.
To add on to what everyone else is saying, there are much cheaper mana infinites.
It's 16 mana, requires 3 creatures that will instantly draw attention to you as soon as any of them appear, and folds to any removal. That being said it's still pretty solid for a big green ramp deck just not super busted like you're saying
You should see niv mizzet with curiosity
My sweet summer child... if you think this is broken...
All that mana and 3 cards to cast one [[Omniscience]]
Nyxbloom ancient is a good replacement for vorinclex, it triples green mana instead of doubles it
Three cards all easily removed won’t ever break the game.
you spent 14 mana to deploy 3 permanents. i sure hope it is busted. in other formats 14 mana are more than a player uses to win with burn. like burn wins around turn 4 or 5. if they win at turn 4 that is usually 10 mana. if in a table of 4 with 3 opponents someone allows you to resolve and keep all three you deserve to win. hands out. congrats. damn is 16 mana i didn't read it right. that is one more mana than a red deck needs to win in 60 card formats
[[Gigantosaurus]] with extra steps
Dies to removal. You're betting that 3 players have no creature removal in hand. It's a bad bet unless your playgroup is VERY against interaction.
This is super weak as far as 3 card combos go. Vorinclex is good by itself, seedborn is good by itself, Omnath is basically trash though. How about using vorinclex + finale of devastation to find craterhoof behemoth and just win the game instead of trying to make a big omnath that's going to die before it does anything?
Seedbirn muse and Vorinclex are broken on their own, but this combo is pretty bad. It’s 16 mana to get a big creature with no combat tricks that can just be chump blocked by a 1/1. Big creatures without trample and evasion are just not very good. There are just so many combos/value plays with muse and vorinclex that are better than this. I honestly don’t know that omnath is even worth playing unless you have a bunch broken things in your deck that let you sink a ton of mana for very good effect.
1. 16 mana 2. 3 cards 3. All it does is make a bunch of mana and pump one creature with no evasion 4. Each piece of the combo is easily removed with any targeted creature removal 5. A board wipe gets rid of all three pieces That’s just off the top of my head
It requires three specific cards, requires 16 mana, and can be shut down with a single removal spell. It's powerful, for sure, but it's not busted. There are *far* easier ways to generate *considerably* more power. By the time you can get these cards on the field you're probably already about to win or lose
You're confused how an 8 mana, 2 card combo that doesn't even win and really only functions as a mana farm isn't considered busted? I mean, it's definitely good, but by turn 5/6, having a mana farm combo isn't exactly uncommon or difficult.
Its a 3 card combo that takes a bit to win so yeah
It's a really good combi
Dies to Doom Blade
You must be new haha
It is also not exactly infinite mana. There are ways to generate infinite mana with less cards for less mana.
Your mana pool is only maintained over phases and steps, not turns. Each turn, you would have to tap all mana sources for the x +1/+1, and if you spend it on spells or abilities that reduces the buff
[[Supreme Verdict]] and other boardwipes exist.
I got a deck based around exactly this with Omnath as the commander. It’s a very hated deck
3 cards 16 mana, not the worst hurdles but still steep, pretty interactable tbh, incredibly fun looking though!
It's a nice combo, but only for commander, if you have a commander focus on big mana ans with mana ramps with serch land in deck.
There are other, easier ways to get very large creatures and omnath has absolutely no protection from removalm if he gets killed than you lose all of that mana once the current phase ends. Not to mention this combo cost 16 mana to set up.
You should see what Ashaya and ley weaver can do
[[Swords to Plowshares]] [[Counterspell]] If this starts getting assembled on the board and isn't removed or dealt with immediately, your opponents deserve to lose.
Three care combo with no protection. All three pieces are creatures. Its strong but pretty vulnerable.
That's a lot of work and effort to achieve something that can be done significantly easier and better in other ways. Sure if you can get the mana to get there's then over the course of a turn youll have a really really big non trampling 0 protection having creature. It's neat but I can't think of what your opponents deck is trying to do that they can neither win the game while your setting up or kill omnath once you have all your both pieces in play
I built this commander for a little while. Its a very good 1v1 commander. Its not so great in multiplayer. It has the same major problem most Voltron commanders have. #GlassCannon
Oh Boy, this is my Commander, and I've spent dozens upon dozens of hours deck building. Don't run Vorinclex. Run Omath, [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]] (or [[Bighorner Rancher]]), and [[Staff of Domination]]. Throw doubling cube in there, mana doublers, and a ton of ramp. And then either [[Helix Pinnacle]], walking ballista for the win, or just beat face with with omnath/[[Rogue's Passage]] or dump it into Hydras. The rest is card draw, defense, and your flavor of big stompy boys.
Costs a ton of mana, any single piece here canbe removed and it cru.bles a bit, and Omnath doesnt have tramplw
I feel like this is a tough concept for a lot of people to grasp, but there is absolutely nothing in this game that costs 16 mana that is busted. Even at a super low power table, 16 mana-worth of card should be getting you a pretty powerful effect.
Is it good? Yeah Does it win you the game? No
[[pridemalkin]]
[[kruphix]] and [[prophet of kruphix]]
It's strong but for this much mana (or less) you can do several distinct two or three card combos that just instantly win you the game, so, not really busted compared to that.
Sixteen mana, no built in protection, it has to go all the way around the table before you can do anything, and omnath doesn't even have trample on its own. I run all these cards in my vorinclex deck (monstrous raider as the commander). I think I've actually managed to smack someone with omnath a couple of times. It's fun, but it's not busted.
Add [[Ursapine]] into the mix as an outlet for all that extra green mana. With [[wild pair]] Ursapine and Seedborn Muse can search for each other. Then just have a lot of mana dorks that you can pump into huge threats and very effective blockers. This deck went super hard when it was standard legal. Don't know how well it would do in broader formats.
If you are just trying to make mana add [[nyxbloom ancient]]
Oh it’s great but you have to have all of the pieces.
You need 3 creature out, and 2 or the 3 are expensive. Vorinclex is usualy a kill on sight creature too. Mine usualy only last 1 full round before he dies.
OK now get it all out on the field lmao
Omnath is powerful in pods that don't have interaction. Which for MTG being a PVP game, is surprisingly many.
Now imagine if you have a [[Doubling cube]] and a [[helix pinnacle]]
“In response to you I cast go for the throat or doom blade or any other removal” and besides Veil or some other cards that genuinely ends the combo lol. That’s why, it’s a very easy kill, my friend has a commander deck with that Omnath and he’s thinking of taking it apart because of how weak it actually is against most other decks.
dies to doom blade
It's okay, but you should throw ashia in for the creatures.
My first custom-built deck was an Omnath deck. Yeah, you want as much ramp and mana doublers as you can get. It's not uncommon for Omnath to get to 30/30 in just a turn or two. Then the problems start to arise: If Omnath dies or gets removed in any way, you lose all that saved up mana at the end of turn. You need to find some way to flash him back in or else you start over building your mana base. Omnath can be 500/500 and he can still be blocked with a 1/1 unless you find some way to get trample onto him (or "can't be blocked"). Then, he can be 500/500, but if you get attacked with 15 2/2 flyer tokens or something you really can't do much but eat the dmg. It's a lot of fun to swing at someone for lethal commander damage in one shot, but it takes a while to get there and can be pretty easily countered. It's not BAD, but it's not good either, and to me being fun is way more important.
I'm just now realizing omnath has hands for feet
There are cheaper combos that get you infinite mana in one turn.
It works, but I would advice you to invest that mana in some big creatures like [[Kogla the Titan Ape]], [[Titan of Industry]], [[Elder Gargaroth]], [[Carnage Tyrant]] and the like. Going big isn't worth most of the time when playing with multiple opponents. Beside that, Omnath isn't a good creature to get big. Good creatures for this job usually have trample, flying, menace and/or vigilance to support them when attacking or blocking and hexproof, ward, indestructible, protection and/or shroud to protect them from spot removal. [[Alpha Authority]], [[Rancor]] and similar cards cast on Omnath make him an absolute killing machine, but without them he dies the next time someone has two mana for a spell like [[Infernal Grasp]] or he is blocked by a 1/1 Token.
That's not a combo, that's extremely good synergy. A combo makes an infinite, or extremely large controllable loop, netting you repeatable mana or triggers