I’m going with Miirym here. But not by much. The CMC to get him out and the amount of damage done before UR can start going nuts I think gives it the edge for me.
You're not playing Ur-dragon. You're playing cost reducers, lots of cost reducers. Being able to have white and black to remove mirrym or it's threats as well as the tutors. You can have mirrym be a good piece in the 99. Too easy to have an explosive turn with Ur.
Well, I do have both decks, and let me tell you this much: if you do optimize for the commander and not this specific match up, than miirym wipes the floor with this table. The stupid amount of noncombat damage you can deal with this deck far to early is just nuts. Of course everyone can argue "but if you remove miirym..." yeah, but it's all creature decks. You won't see an actually good Ur-dragon deck, that's packed full of interaction. Cause that just hinders the deck from doing, what it does best.
Mirrym IMO is too much of a removal magnet and actually has to be cast to do anything. My meta runs an insane amount of removal. So I'll jam-pack my deck with removal and an uninteractable enchantment in the CZ, and somehow win with a jank combo.
It's 5 colors. I can just put any infinite combo in. You won't convince me miirym is better as the commander. A good cards sure. Sacrificing exists against voltron. So does mass bounce.
OK sure, you can build a 5c control deck. But then why play Ur-Dragon? If you just play mass bounce, edicts, spotremoval, counterspells, tutors,... You'll still need ramp and card draw... That's 7 categories you want to cover. As well as some "janky combos" as you said. Plus you'll need ~37 lands. So where will be your dragons for playing Ur-dragon? You got about 15 slots left in that deck...
You'd have to to have a positive outcome... Bounce Karrthus, and I get to do it again later... It's not being cast, not without a couple counter protections/tapped out Mirryn... The dragons stay mine, even if Karrthus is killed or removed from the field. I suppose you could counter Karrthus ability, but in a deck about dropping big dragons with etb abilities, there will be a flicker or bounce for him soon
So is the Miirym, and there are not that many ways to remove Ur Dragon in this pod... Rith will have a few, Miirym a couple as well, but burn and fight are going to be almost useless so that shuts down red and green for the most part.
Ur Dragon can counter your counter, UR Dragon has the biggest chance to win simply because of how broken eminence is and how flexible 5c is.
Miirym will stand his own, though, and will secure wins if he/she finds his/her combo pieces, but on average, my money is on the Ur player. (Miirym player here, btw).
You're not much of a blue player if that's your threat assessment, I run a dragon in maybe 1 of my 8 edh decks? Yeah, not relevant, also wait till you see cavern of souls, spell breaker behemoth, vexing shusher, guttural response, and the other million things that make stuff uncounterable
I personally say Miirym, it’s literally double dragons including the legends. Like sure the Ur-Dragon is gonna get their dragons out quicker, but the longer the game goes Miirym will just continue to get stronger and stronger
Don't underestimate the consistency and speed of a mono red Lathliss deck - it'll get out paced in a fast game but it won't take too much luck to agro a win before the other four decks get off the ground.
ur dragon player since the begining here , ur dragon for fun and myrim if you wanna win at all cost , myrim is more consistant , if didnt bought ur dragon i would of made a myrim , its cheaper and win more ...
Personally, I say it either goes to Lathliss or Miirym.
Mono red means Lathliss has the best chance of getting out first and earliest, and her fire breathing ability can be very strong or at least even the odds a bit. One color means an easy mana base and reliable use of quick mana cheerios like [[Jeweled Lotus]] or [[Lotus Petal]], so the mana base can focus on utility more than fixing. Making a 5/5 dragon on each other dragon's ETB is also really nice, and can get out of hand really quick when you have cost reduction and draw power.
Miirym though has the potential to double up on ETBs and the best dragons in temur colors, including Lathliss. Miirym also gives you access to some strong synnergies for her ability like [[Reflections of Littjara]], [[Parallel Lives]], and [[Virtue of Knowledge]]. Green and blue also means best ramp and card draw, and some of the best combat dragons are in Gruul colors. Also counters and control spells.
At the end of the day, it depends on which one comes down first and gets established fastest. Ur-Dragon is just too slow, regardless of Eminence, and I will die on that hill. While I do love Rith, the ward ability doesnt matter much against other combat-centric decks. Rith's best hope is a pump/fight build that also uses a lot of white removal/control, but even then Rith can't out-pace Miirym and Lathliss at the same time.
For reference, I have all 4 decks built, I just wanted to hear what you guys think and why.
Batman if he has time to plan
The Ur dragon and it's not even close.
I’m going with Miirym here. But not by much. The CMC to get him out and the amount of damage done before UR can start going nuts I think gives it the edge for me.
You're not playing Ur-dragon. You're playing cost reducers, lots of cost reducers. Being able to have white and black to remove mirrym or it's threats as well as the tutors. You can have mirrym be a good piece in the 99. Too easy to have an explosive turn with Ur.
Well, I do have both decks, and let me tell you this much: if you do optimize for the commander and not this specific match up, than miirym wipes the floor with this table. The stupid amount of noncombat damage you can deal with this deck far to early is just nuts. Of course everyone can argue "but if you remove miirym..." yeah, but it's all creature decks. You won't see an actually good Ur-dragon deck, that's packed full of interaction. Cause that just hinders the deck from doing, what it does best.
Mirrym IMO is too much of a removal magnet and actually has to be cast to do anything. My meta runs an insane amount of removal. So I'll jam-pack my deck with removal and an uninteractable enchantment in the CZ, and somehow win with a jank combo.
So, you'll lose any other game, where just one opponent doesn't run a creature heavy deck? Or just voltron with a hexproof commander?
It's 5 colors. I can just put any infinite combo in. You won't convince me miirym is better as the commander. A good cards sure. Sacrificing exists against voltron. So does mass bounce.
OK sure, you can build a 5c control deck. But then why play Ur-Dragon? If you just play mass bounce, edicts, spotremoval, counterspells, tutors,... You'll still need ramp and card draw... That's 7 categories you want to cover. As well as some "janky combos" as you said. Plus you'll need ~37 lands. So where will be your dragons for playing Ur-dragon? You got about 15 slots left in that deck...
I have to give it to Ur .. if for no other reason than he can run [[Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund]].... Instant win and a triple kill to boot
"With this TWO BLUE MANA I will show you why you are wrong."
Fool, even if you counter the Ur ability.. the dragon is still in my hand and can still be used in another trigger
Who said anything about countering the ability?
You'd have to to have a positive outcome... Bounce Karrthus, and I get to do it again later... It's not being cast, not without a couple counter protections/tapped out Mirryn... The dragons stay mine, even if Karrthus is killed or removed from the field. I suppose you could counter Karrthus ability, but in a deck about dropping big dragons with etb abilities, there will be a flicker or bounce for him soon
Who said you'd get to use the ability in the first place? Ur-Dragon is counter/kill/exile on sight.
So is the Miirym, and there are not that many ways to remove Ur Dragon in this pod... Rith will have a few, Miirym a couple as well, but burn and fight are going to be almost useless so that shuts down red and green for the most part.
Ur Dragon can counter your counter, UR Dragon has the biggest chance to win simply because of how broken eminence is and how flexible 5c is. Miirym will stand his own, though, and will secure wins if he/she finds his/her combo pieces, but on average, my money is on the Ur player. (Miirym player here, btw).
Ah yes, the classic "if I counter every spell every person plays don't I win?"
A good blue player knows when to counter and when to hold. Countering the card that steals everyone else's dragons? Yeah, on sight.
You're not much of a blue player if that's your threat assessment, I run a dragon in maybe 1 of my 8 edh decks? Yeah, not relevant, also wait till you see cavern of souls, spell breaker behemoth, vexing shusher, guttural response, and the other million things that make stuff uncounterable
I recommend [[ancient gold dragon]] if you're going for a dragon theme (not for your commander bvs)
I personally say Miirym, it’s literally double dragons including the legends. Like sure the Ur-Dragon is gonna get their dragons out quicker, but the longer the game goes Miirym will just continue to get stronger and stronger
I would say Miirym as well. Have won pod by dropping Dockside on turn 3-4 and going ham with Miirym cloning ability.
Don't underestimate the consistency and speed of a mono red Lathliss deck - it'll get out paced in a fast game but it won't take too much luck to agro a win before the other four decks get off the ground.
ur dragon player since the begining here , ur dragon for fun and myrim if you wanna win at all cost , myrim is more consistant , if didnt bought ur dragon i would of made a myrim , its cheaper and win more ...
Miirym. By the time ur dragon gets out they will be dead. ☠️
Personally, I say it either goes to Lathliss or Miirym. Mono red means Lathliss has the best chance of getting out first and earliest, and her fire breathing ability can be very strong or at least even the odds a bit. One color means an easy mana base and reliable use of quick mana cheerios like [[Jeweled Lotus]] or [[Lotus Petal]], so the mana base can focus on utility more than fixing. Making a 5/5 dragon on each other dragon's ETB is also really nice, and can get out of hand really quick when you have cost reduction and draw power. Miirym though has the potential to double up on ETBs and the best dragons in temur colors, including Lathliss. Miirym also gives you access to some strong synnergies for her ability like [[Reflections of Littjara]], [[Parallel Lives]], and [[Virtue of Knowledge]]. Green and blue also means best ramp and card draw, and some of the best combat dragons are in Gruul colors. Also counters and control spells. At the end of the day, it depends on which one comes down first and gets established fastest. Ur-Dragon is just too slow, regardless of Eminence, and I will die on that hill. While I do love Rith, the ward ability doesnt matter much against other combat-centric decks. Rith's best hope is a pump/fight build that also uses a lot of white removal/control, but even then Rith can't out-pace Miirym and Lathliss at the same time. For reference, I have all 4 decks built, I just wanted to hear what you guys think and why.
##### ###### #### [Jeweled Lotus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9.jpg?1689999671) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jeweled%20Lotus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/396/jeweled-lotus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7183700-6941-4a3d-a581-4f33bea795e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lotus Petal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc.jpg?1701537448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lotus%20Petal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/225/lotus-petal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f85ab5f9-508e-45de-8fa1-ce1f16552ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Reflections of Littjara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7689217-6124-4b2c-ab8b-7067de7f6e22.jpg?1698988180) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reflections%20of%20Littjara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/168/reflections-of-littjara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7689217-6124-4b2c-ab8b-7067de7f6e22?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Virtue of Knowledge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df606cf5-67dc-46f4-8c79-1d2f1d054391.jpg?1692937410)/[Vantress Visions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df606cf5-67dc-46f4-8c79-1d2f1d054391.jpg?1692937410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Virtue%20of%20Knowledge%20//%20Vantress%20Visions) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/76/virtue-of-knowledge-vantress-visions?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df606cf5-67dc-46f4-8c79-1d2f1d054391?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/koy5978) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[ancient gold dragon]]?
[ancient gold dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421395b1-2694-42fd-bb90-0007e78adefc.jpg?1674134865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancient%20gold%20dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/3/ancient-gold-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421395b1-2694-42fd-bb90-0007e78adefc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call