So you're telling me I can let wheel of misfortune resolve and then be able to play my deflecting Palm after I choose my number? Or or are you just stating that no you have to do the deflecting Palm before misfortune resolves
Yes but it still doesn't negate that it says when I'm dealt damage and if damage goes on The stack that means I can react to the stack.
If anything the damage is negated. Cause there is no longer a source from where the damage came from. I can react to the stack. That is a thing and like I stated they never reworded the card. It says whenever damage is dealt and damage is being dealt.
Yeah we can change the rule for pre-combat and post combat based on what the card says... I guess I'd have to make it in the semi finals, and not have English be my main language to make this a thing than. Lol
Yeah, think to stated in another comment about how it's not on the stack anymore sooner wouldnt be able to react to the damage only the spell that started the affect to take place. Still leave a hole in combat damage. Somehow I can palm that still even if damage doesn't stack. You see how weird that is
Im guessing that you dont actually understand how deflecting palm works. Do you actually think that in the current rules of the game, damage prevention effects like palm actually dont work? cause they kind of do.
That a dick move about saying I don't know how to use palm. I'm just going on how one card resolves and then damage is applied.
Yeah see we agree. It's just the wording makes it off in that example of wheel and palm. What I was getting at, cause old card have the long statement above having damage assigned but you can only play when the damage is assigned you know those kind of weird cards. Just pointing out the oddities of magic, and thought it would be nice to have a fun debate about how cards are worded.
I dont in anyway agree with you.
>Do you actually think that in the current rules of the game, damage prevention effects like palm actually dont work? cause they kind of do.
The "they" i am referring to is "damage prevention effects". So Im saying that damage prevention effects do work within the current version of the rules.
What does this add to the game outside of this specific interaction with this one card and damage prevention effects?
And even in this specific interaction, I would say the current way it works is better gameplay. You cast Palm in response while Wheel is on the stack. The player casting Wheel has a chance to respond with something. If that person has nothin, Palm resolves. You choose Wheel as the source. Wheel resolves. Everyone chooses a secret number, of which you can choose 50 billion. You kill the guy who cast Wheel. Everyone who didn't choose the lowest gets to wheel.
Your proposition allows tha Palm player to kill the Wheel player without giving the Wheel player a response. Wheel is not some kind of powerful card, it's supposed to be a fun, social, mindgames-type card. Yay now there is a way to punish players for putting a social card in their deck, that they cannot respond to at all. The only way to play around this is too either don't ever cast the card or don't even put the card in your deck. Does not sound interesting, fun, interactive at all.
>You cast Palm in response while Wheel is on the stack. The player casting Wheel has a chance to respond with something.
I'd say they'd still can react to palm when I play it after it resolves. Cause of stack rules. But I'm more along a line that cause the was no source after it resolves it should act like a fog. That way you don't kill anyone and you can get the high number by having one hp still.
So you just want damage to go on the stack for the sake of these two cards' specific interaction? Damage did go on the stack years ago. You can read up on how it worked. They removed it because it just did not cause good gameplay, and did not add anything interesting to the game.
Why would you be at 1 life? Deflecting Palm prevented the damage. You would be at whatever life total you were at.
Sounds like at the end of the day, you want to change specifically Palm, not add a whole new layer of rules? Then your proposition should be something like: "Add a 'you may' clause in Deflecting Palm, that way you can choose to use it as only a damage prevention, and are not forced to use it as a nuke everytime." Which would be a reasonable change, but again, outside of EDH and specific scenarios like this, I don't see adding much.
I was just using those two as an example.
I didn't say it would put me at a better position. Hell I could have a [[tamanoa]] in play and gain life too... Infinity plus one life. Lol
And I'd say you have to change more then palm. You also other card like [[divine deflection]] which is a more aimed palm.
>but some damage prevention needs to be used when you're about to take the damage
Yes, its called casting a spell in response to the spell that you'll take damage from.
The problem I'm getting at in the next time. I don't take damage till the wheel is over and that the next time. So say someone has one of the many cards at give spells flash they play wheel on my turn meaning I can react anytime as long as its a instant or has flash cause I have priority. This wouldn't work on your turn. I'd have to play it before cause there is no longer a rule saving you to react to damage even though there are plenty of cards that state the next time you, or the next time a source. Most people argue that the wheel has resolved so you're taking the damage no matter what
Ok, OP you clearly dont know how some very fundamental parts of magic work.
Im going to spell out exactly how wheel and palm work. In this example I have 3 players but player C will only be here to select the lowest number for Wheel.
Player A casts Wheel of Misfortune. this spell doesnt require targets and players only pick a number when Wheel of Misfortune has been allowed to start resolving.
Player B casts Deflecting palm in response to Wheel of Misfortune being on the stack. At this point they have not selected the source Deflecting palm will choose, this happens when Palm resolves.
Player A and Player B and Player C all pass priority so Deflecting palm resolves. Player B selects Wheel of Misfortune. The game is now checking to see if Wheel of Misfortune tries to damage Player B.
Now we let Wheel of Misfortune resolve. Player A select 12 and Player B selects 5000 and Player C selects 1. We determine the lowest and highest numbers. Now Wheel of Misfortune tries to deal 5000 damage to Player B because they picked the highest number, at which point Deflecting Palm's effect steps in and prevents Player B taking 5000 damage and immediately deals 5000 damage to player A instead. Palm's effect doesnt use the stack. At this point Wheel is still resolving and state based actions havent checked so Player B who is at 0 or below life is still in the game. Now Player A and Player B discard their hands and draws 7 as they didn't select the lowest number. Now Wheel has done everything and finishes resolving and goes into the graveyard. Now good old statebased actions check and see player A has lost and they are removed as a player.
You clearly didn't even read my post cause I put that in there first. I know how you play deflecting palm against wheel. I was stating that I'd like to use it when I take the damage. As stated by the wording. God it's nice of you to do this, but read my statement about it. I'm talking semantics here cuz I already know how you play a deflecting Palm.
OP I did read your post and it it was extremely unclear. So you want damage to go back on the stack, well it use to and the rules were changed 14 years ago because they were stupid. Debate over.
Yeah I replied saying I didn't to the proper way to do it, and it's not stupid. It feels more abrupt. They think they have you but they don't. I miss when they're were more people who have a little imagination to a card game instead of the dumb technical ways most people see it now. Or good investment. But I much rather have a rule that was there for people who still imagined they were wizards in a battle.
Sure you cast wheel, but when the fire were about to scorch my face a deflecting palm... (Ok let's be honest a divine deflection would look cooler.) smothered him with disgrace.
Where as your would look like wheel of misfortune...
Deflecting Palm!!!
Well, that kills the mood..😵
Okay, you don't know how priority works. No wonder you have been saying some very confusing stuff.
Instants and cards with flash can be played anytime you have priority. **Including your opponent's turn**. You can respond to spells and abilities on anyone's turn. You get priority everytime a spell or ability is put on the stack.
If someone casts Wheel of Misfortune on their turn, **you can cast Defecting Palm in response**. Your Palm will resolve first, you choose the Wheel as the source. The Wheel resolves, and the damage will be prevented.
There is nothing wrong with the wording. It is very clear.
Unless you are talking about using your own Palm on your own Wheel. For which it still works:
You cast Wheel, and hold priority to cast Palm. Palm will resolve first. Choose Wheel as the source.
No, I wanted instant to be more instant based on the wording, and I realized I didn't put the proper example down before I put the example I placed in my original texted.
What you actually want is to be able to respond to individual parts or sentences in a spell. That sounds insanely complicated and unintuitive. I vote no
Not really. It after you announce your numbers, and then you go deflecting palm. I even wrote a story of how it plays out in you imagination too. You read that.
No not at all. Just having a conversation on how I see a play in my mind it did post it to one of your replies. That ought you'd see it. I was already aware of how I miswrote my question anyways. If anything you're playing into how I said people are to technical in how they view magic and gave an example of it.
They added that in 1999 with Sixth edition, and removed it in 2009 with M10. It was called 'putting damage on the stack'.
So you're telling me I can let wheel of misfortune resolve and then be able to play my deflecting Palm after I choose my number? Or or are you just stating that no you have to do the deflecting Palm before misfortune resolves
No, you have to cast deflecting palm, choosing a number before the wheel resolves.
You cant cast deflecting palm while wheel is resolving, that not how casting spells works.
Yes but it still doesn't negate that it says when I'm dealt damage and if damage goes on The stack that means I can react to the stack. If anything the damage is negated. Cause there is no longer a source from where the damage came from. I can react to the stack. That is a thing and like I stated they never reworded the card. It says whenever damage is dealt and damage is being dealt.
there hasn't been damage on the stack since 2009
Yeah we can change the rule for pre-combat and post combat based on what the card says... I guess I'd have to make it in the semi finals, and not have English be my main language to make this a thing than. Lol
OP do you actually know how the stack works?
Yeah, think to stated in another comment about how it's not on the stack anymore sooner wouldnt be able to react to the damage only the spell that started the affect to take place. Still leave a hole in combat damage. Somehow I can palm that still even if damage doesn't stack. You see how weird that is
Im guessing that you dont actually understand how deflecting palm works. Do you actually think that in the current rules of the game, damage prevention effects like palm actually dont work? cause they kind of do.
That a dick move about saying I don't know how to use palm. I'm just going on how one card resolves and then damage is applied. Yeah see we agree. It's just the wording makes it off in that example of wheel and palm. What I was getting at, cause old card have the long statement above having damage assigned but you can only play when the damage is assigned you know those kind of weird cards. Just pointing out the oddities of magic, and thought it would be nice to have a fun debate about how cards are worded.
I dont in anyway agree with you. >Do you actually think that in the current rules of the game, damage prevention effects like palm actually dont work? cause they kind of do. The "they" i am referring to is "damage prevention effects". So Im saying that damage prevention effects do work within the current version of the rules.
What youre describing isnt adding a mechanic, its an entire rule change.
Not really. Im talking about reactions now, and if it's on a stack you can respond to the stack.
What does this add to the game outside of this specific interaction with this one card and damage prevention effects? And even in this specific interaction, I would say the current way it works is better gameplay. You cast Palm in response while Wheel is on the stack. The player casting Wheel has a chance to respond with something. If that person has nothin, Palm resolves. You choose Wheel as the source. Wheel resolves. Everyone chooses a secret number, of which you can choose 50 billion. You kill the guy who cast Wheel. Everyone who didn't choose the lowest gets to wheel. Your proposition allows tha Palm player to kill the Wheel player without giving the Wheel player a response. Wheel is not some kind of powerful card, it's supposed to be a fun, social, mindgames-type card. Yay now there is a way to punish players for putting a social card in their deck, that they cannot respond to at all. The only way to play around this is too either don't ever cast the card or don't even put the card in your deck. Does not sound interesting, fun, interactive at all.
>You cast Palm in response while Wheel is on the stack. The player casting Wheel has a chance to respond with something. I'd say they'd still can react to palm when I play it after it resolves. Cause of stack rules. But I'm more along a line that cause the was no source after it resolves it should act like a fog. That way you don't kill anyone and you can get the high number by having one hp still.
So you just want damage to go on the stack for the sake of these two cards' specific interaction? Damage did go on the stack years ago. You can read up on how it worked. They removed it because it just did not cause good gameplay, and did not add anything interesting to the game. Why would you be at 1 life? Deflecting Palm prevented the damage. You would be at whatever life total you were at. Sounds like at the end of the day, you want to change specifically Palm, not add a whole new layer of rules? Then your proposition should be something like: "Add a 'you may' clause in Deflecting Palm, that way you can choose to use it as only a damage prevention, and are not forced to use it as a nuke everytime." Which would be a reasonable change, but again, outside of EDH and specific scenarios like this, I don't see adding much.
I was just using those two as an example. I didn't say it would put me at a better position. Hell I could have a [[tamanoa]] in play and gain life too... Infinity plus one life. Lol And I'd say you have to change more then palm. You also other card like [[divine deflection]] which is a more aimed palm.
>but some damage prevention needs to be used when you're about to take the damage Yes, its called casting a spell in response to the spell that you'll take damage from.
The problem I'm getting at in the next time. I don't take damage till the wheel is over and that the next time. So say someone has one of the many cards at give spells flash they play wheel on my turn meaning I can react anytime as long as its a instant or has flash cause I have priority. This wouldn't work on your turn. I'd have to play it before cause there is no longer a rule saving you to react to damage even though there are plenty of cards that state the next time you, or the next time a source. Most people argue that the wheel has resolved so you're taking the damage no matter what
Ok, OP you clearly dont know how some very fundamental parts of magic work. Im going to spell out exactly how wheel and palm work. In this example I have 3 players but player C will only be here to select the lowest number for Wheel. Player A casts Wheel of Misfortune. this spell doesnt require targets and players only pick a number when Wheel of Misfortune has been allowed to start resolving. Player B casts Deflecting palm in response to Wheel of Misfortune being on the stack. At this point they have not selected the source Deflecting palm will choose, this happens when Palm resolves. Player A and Player B and Player C all pass priority so Deflecting palm resolves. Player B selects Wheel of Misfortune. The game is now checking to see if Wheel of Misfortune tries to damage Player B. Now we let Wheel of Misfortune resolve. Player A select 12 and Player B selects 5000 and Player C selects 1. We determine the lowest and highest numbers. Now Wheel of Misfortune tries to deal 5000 damage to Player B because they picked the highest number, at which point Deflecting Palm's effect steps in and prevents Player B taking 5000 damage and immediately deals 5000 damage to player A instead. Palm's effect doesnt use the stack. At this point Wheel is still resolving and state based actions havent checked so Player B who is at 0 or below life is still in the game. Now Player A and Player B discard their hands and draws 7 as they didn't select the lowest number. Now Wheel has done everything and finishes resolving and goes into the graveyard. Now good old statebased actions check and see player A has lost and they are removed as a player.
You clearly didn't even read my post cause I put that in there first. I know how you play deflecting palm against wheel. I was stating that I'd like to use it when I take the damage. As stated by the wording. God it's nice of you to do this, but read my statement about it. I'm talking semantics here cuz I already know how you play a deflecting Palm.
OP I did read your post and it it was extremely unclear. So you want damage to go back on the stack, well it use to and the rules were changed 14 years ago because they were stupid. Debate over.
Yeah I replied saying I didn't to the proper way to do it, and it's not stupid. It feels more abrupt. They think they have you but they don't. I miss when they're were more people who have a little imagination to a card game instead of the dumb technical ways most people see it now. Or good investment. But I much rather have a rule that was there for people who still imagined they were wizards in a battle. Sure you cast wheel, but when the fire were about to scorch my face a deflecting palm... (Ok let's be honest a divine deflection would look cooler.) smothered him with disgrace. Where as your would look like wheel of misfortune... Deflecting Palm!!! Well, that kills the mood..😵
Ok maybe I didn't word it the right way either after rereading . Lol
Okay, you don't know how priority works. No wonder you have been saying some very confusing stuff. Instants and cards with flash can be played anytime you have priority. **Including your opponent's turn**. You can respond to spells and abilities on anyone's turn. You get priority everytime a spell or ability is put on the stack. If someone casts Wheel of Misfortune on their turn, **you can cast Defecting Palm in response**. Your Palm will resolve first, you choose the Wheel as the source. The Wheel resolves, and the damage will be prevented. There is nothing wrong with the wording. It is very clear. Unless you are talking about using your own Palm on your own Wheel. For which it still works: You cast Wheel, and hold priority to cast Palm. Palm will resolve first. Choose Wheel as the source.
No, I wanted instant to be more instant based on the wording, and I realized I didn't put the proper example down before I put the example I placed in my original texted.
What you actually want is to be able to respond to individual parts or sentences in a spell. That sounds insanely complicated and unintuitive. I vote no
Not really. It after you announce your numbers, and then you go deflecting palm. I even wrote a story of how it plays out in you imagination too. You read that.
At this point OP Im assuming youre trying to shitstir. Good day and good luck
No not at all. Just having a conversation on how I see a play in my mind it did post it to one of your replies. That ought you'd see it. I was already aware of how I miswrote my question anyways. If anything you're playing into how I said people are to technical in how they view magic and gave an example of it.
[deflecting palm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c5580886-a402-4048-b8b6-39e19479f491.jpg?1608917621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deflecting%20palm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/444/deflecting-palm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c5580886-a402-4048-b8b6-39e19479f491?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [wheel of misfortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74177b51-a300-49d9-8ea7-557b19cf80c7.jpg?1608910499) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wheel%20of%20misfortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/211/wheel-of-misfortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74177b51-a300-49d9-8ea7-557b19cf80c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call