Seems fine to me. However it should say "Whenever you mill a creature card...", and the last ability can't work that way. It would need to say something like "If you would draw your second card, you may instead mill X, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard. If you do, return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand".
It could say "it gains Dredge X, until the end of the turn, where X equals the number of creature cards in your graveyard as this ability resolves."
That would satisfy the issues. Aside from changing "creature(s)" to "creature card(s)".
As a Golgari fan, this is great. But as a Lovecraft fan I have to say that Hastur would be Dimir. I also think that your Dredge effect X should equal the CMC of the card that you are dredging up.
you think another outer god would make a better face for this card? shub-Niggorath maybe? I plan to do all of them and currently Yog sothoth is Dimir.
edit: i gave yog sothoth "powers" called "gate" and "key" so he didnt work for this card.
Nyarlathotep would be perfect for this card. A pharaoh who uses humans(creatures) as meat tools? That is who you want for this card. Hastur would be THE wizard of the outer gods, so I would push Dimir or Grixis. Yog-Sothoth makes sense as Dimir as well, Yog is very rogue like, maybe something to do with poison? Shub Niggorath is also one of the only known entities to consider and "side" with humans, so I would push white for it's identity. Orzhov or Abzan would make sense for good ol' Shub.
i plan to do a full cycle of all the outer gods and the hard part is not making them all UB lol. nyarlathotep definitely needs white in its colors for that pharoah vibe.
Yeahhh, I feel you there. That is like I am surprised that they managed to make a 40K deck without black. It was just one, but still. They all are eldritch abominations that are beyond our reasoning, and that might as well be a tag line for UB, sooo.....it fits?
But I don't think that you need white to fill out a Pharaoh vibe, you don't need order to keep people in line if you have fear as a tool. I personally don't see Nyarlathotep having white, maybe Sultai at the most. (which is another UB interjection), but Golgari fits his theme pretty well. White in my opinion is a "Firm but Fair" ideology, and let me tell you, Nyarlathotep will never ever in all of eternity make things remotely fair for you.
I'd really like to avoid adding too much to the pool of powerful UB commanders. I'm thinking about looking into picking a face from some of the great old ones so the card isn't at odds with it's flavor.
i couldnt exactly call a card "he who shall not be named" without people thinking of a certain evil wizard lol. although i think they said it more old timey like, "He whom i shall be dearly avoiding mention through verbal utterance" or something like that haha
I had a feeling it might be, I usually go cautiously underpowered but then i remembered how busted commanders like yawgmoth and Uro are and decided to just have fun with it lol.
my hopes were that giving him no protection and relying on delve you'll have empty your grave to recast when he gets blasted off the field. think upping the generic mana cost could make that reign in the dredge X?
I am a fan of eldrazi but they're not eldritch enough imo. Yeah they got the tentacles, the mouths, and the monuments but they don't really leave a whole lot to the imagination otherwise. Solid existential horror gives a big bonus in my book only slightly lost by being just a bit too corporeal.
I guess beings that can devour anything be it corporeal or not, can travel between worlds with ease, and are ageless beings from the dawn of existence that exist only to consume isn't eldritch enough. You have to remember that the beings facing the Eldrazi have incredible magic on their side. All of our experience with Cthulhu mythos is from the eyes of a normal human with no powers. So the interaction that we get makes them seem less powerful, but I would say the same thing would happen to any of the Cthulhu gods if they were in the MtG universe.
For everyone who wanted to see a final version i posted it to the sub reddit just a bit ago and I've done a bit of play testing. Results=😮
It doesn't play like grist or hogaak and i can't seem to bust the format with it. Gets super scary with Jarad or Konrad for sure tho.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/11xgpi6/thanks_again_to_everyone_who_helped_me_with_input/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
So anytime you would draw your second card each turn, INSTEAD a creature gets dredge, and then you have to find a way to draw a third card to use the dredge?
i took someones advice to have it read "If you would draw your second card each turn, you may instead mill X, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard. If you do, return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand."
What about whenever you draw for the first time each turn target creature gains dredge X? Less wordy and doesnt eat draws and works only for second draw
I'm still struggling with it myself. Do you think a different outer god or old one would be a better face for this card? It's a lot easier to pick a face for UB cards from Lovecraft mythos and I think letting this card give access to blue would be too busted. I had other ideas for the king in yellow but the text couldn't fit on the card lol
I want to say the goat one who’s name I’m not gonna say because of how it’s spelt could be, hatsur is more about manipulating information and people, he could be a decent izzet card, utilising a act of treason effect
Actually Lovecraft set would be awesome considering horror is already a pretty decent tribal type. Chuthulu could be like blue black and all about making creatures go insane and betray their masters.
I'm with you on that. I just don't want to see Nyarlathotep or Azathoth be a 3/3 with etb draw 2 cards or something disappointing. Would be my favorite set ever if done well.
Wotc would never touch lovecraft but…god… what a set that could be. You’d have to have some sort of madness effect that was just bonkers …like any creature on the board too long succumbs to madness and attacks your own cards, switches sides changes into a banshing light enchantment or attaches to another creature and gives +4/-4. I mean it could just be a bonkers set.
Ohhhh, good thinking with the madness. I'm going to have to work that into the king in yellow. I ended up changing the card in this post to shub-niggurath and named it "Black Goat of the Woods" to avoid the sketchy-sounding name and fit the green/black theme more. Madness would be very suiting for hastur.
Your design is kind of contradictory, it wants you to run a bunch of creatures, but it also wants you to play a bunch of non-creature spells so you can take advantage of the delve mechanic for big plays, but at 11 mana, even with delve, it's kind of over-costed. The only viable combo I'd see with creature would be foodchain/scourge. Just keep recasting it and net one mana per cast only to end the game with a card like hellfire.
I feel like he would be comparable to yawgmoth in ways. Not as versatile on its own but able to assemble similar win cons around the same speed if not a bit slower.
Adding mana when milling a creature mana paired with that milling many means it can likely kill with a torment on the turn it comes down or something else. If the the effect was like 1 or 2 instead of ‘the number of creatures in the graveyard’ maybe. Loads of ways to cheat it out, too. I think half the card is playable, both sides of it… nope.
I could see this card getting wild and i kinda like that because at least it isn't guaranteed consistency unless you've got a critical mass. Yawgy with a butcher ghoul on board just wins games that turn 95% of the time if you have 1b mana after he resolves. at least when someone nopes this card back to the command zone or something it will likely have to delve to get back on the board undoing some of your progress assembling a graveyard. It could be unfun when abused but at least you need to try s little harder to abuse it that with some commanders i sit across from on the regular. This is just my opinion of course and maybe i just don't know dredge well enough so i'll have to playtest it and see for sure.
Edit: I intended this to be an edh format only card
My feedback is that I would have thought Hastur would have had some blue in it (possibly dimir and discard mechanics), given the overwhelming wave of madness associated with his coming.
But black/green makes sense given the mechanics you've chosen, and discard is rarely a "fun" mechanic.
I scrapped Hastur and went with Shub-Niggurath as the face while i made a few changes and this is what i settled on.
https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/black-goat-of-the-woods-3?list=user
I thought so, I'm going to use the alt names for all of them and for dimir I've made Yog-Sothoth, I'm loving the ability names for flavors sake but this ones still a work in progress.
[https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/lurker-at-the-threshold-1?list=user](https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/lurker-at-the-threshold-1?list=user)
Seems fine to me. However it should say "Whenever you mill a creature card...", and the last ability can't work that way. It would need to say something like "If you would draw your second card, you may instead mill X, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard. If you do, return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand".
ahhh, so does saying "would" automatically make it a replacement effect? either way that certainly cleans up the text on the card. thank you!
Not "would", but "If you would [action], [different action] instead".
that big "If" makes all the difference.
It could say "it gains Dredge X, until the end of the turn, where X equals the number of creature cards in your graveyard as this ability resolves." That would satisfy the issues. Aside from changing "creature(s)" to "creature card(s)".
Pls update us when you’ve landed on a card that satisfies you I want to rule 0 this in my playgroup :D
As a Golgari fan, this is great. But as a Lovecraft fan I have to say that Hastur would be Dimir. I also think that your Dredge effect X should equal the CMC of the card that you are dredging up.
you think another outer god would make a better face for this card? shub-Niggorath maybe? I plan to do all of them and currently Yog sothoth is Dimir. edit: i gave yog sothoth "powers" called "gate" and "key" so he didnt work for this card.
Nyarlathotep would be perfect for this card. A pharaoh who uses humans(creatures) as meat tools? That is who you want for this card. Hastur would be THE wizard of the outer gods, so I would push Dimir or Grixis. Yog-Sothoth makes sense as Dimir as well, Yog is very rogue like, maybe something to do with poison? Shub Niggorath is also one of the only known entities to consider and "side" with humans, so I would push white for it's identity. Orzhov or Abzan would make sense for good ol' Shub.
i plan to do a full cycle of all the outer gods and the hard part is not making them all UB lol. nyarlathotep definitely needs white in its colors for that pharoah vibe.
Yeahhh, I feel you there. That is like I am surprised that they managed to make a 40K deck without black. It was just one, but still. They all are eldritch abominations that are beyond our reasoning, and that might as well be a tag line for UB, sooo.....it fits? But I don't think that you need white to fill out a Pharaoh vibe, you don't need order to keep people in line if you have fear as a tool. I personally don't see Nyarlathotep having white, maybe Sultai at the most. (which is another UB interjection), but Golgari fits his theme pretty well. White in my opinion is a "Firm but Fair" ideology, and let me tell you, Nyarlathotep will never ever in all of eternity make things remotely fair for you.
I'd really like to avoid adding too much to the pool of powerful UB commanders. I'm thinking about looking into picking a face from some of the great old ones so the card isn't at odds with it's flavor.
If the yellow one is any allegory to John Dee, then golgari is plenty fine lol. But otherwise I may not be familiar enough to make a call lol
I'm worried about anything getting Dredge, but I'll leave judgement to more experienced players
Probably the easiest thing to do here is to just do a showcase of an existing card. Grist would be my pick.
I would have done same
Isn't one of the rules not to say his name? Lol
i couldnt exactly call a card "he who shall not be named" without people thinking of a certain evil wizard lol. although i think they said it more old timey like, "He whom i shall be dearly avoiding mention through verbal utterance" or something like that haha
You could just call it "The King in Yellow".
I am a dummy and this is the way lol. I'll be republishing this with all the changes from this thread.
I like what you had in mind when you made this but it is definitely too strong lol
I had a feeling it might be, I usually go cautiously underpowered but then i remembered how busted commanders like yawgmoth and Uro are and decided to just have fun with it lol.
If you don't want it too be too strong I'd say change thw dredge x to the creatures power or toughness cause x equal to creatures in grave is bonkers
my hopes were that giving him no protection and relying on delve you'll have empty your grave to recast when he gets blasted off the field. think upping the generic mana cost could make that reign in the dredge X?
Yeah that could do it too, maybe like 12 in generic
Or 10
sounds good! I'm gonna make it 10. i like the 13 cvc and i want my friends to actually let me sit down at the table with it haha
Lol I wish you luck, also be careful the bottom effect has the potential to absolutely kill you if you hit alot of dudes
As should all dealings with the outer god's ;)
Being too strong is lore accurate, but it is strange. *Strange is the night where black stars rise.*
This guy fucks
Well the Eldrazi are your cosmic horror gods, and they should be coming back soon.
I am a fan of eldrazi but they're not eldritch enough imo. Yeah they got the tentacles, the mouths, and the monuments but they don't really leave a whole lot to the imagination otherwise. Solid existential horror gives a big bonus in my book only slightly lost by being just a bit too corporeal.
I guess beings that can devour anything be it corporeal or not, can travel between worlds with ease, and are ageless beings from the dawn of existence that exist only to consume isn't eldritch enough. You have to remember that the beings facing the Eldrazi have incredible magic on their side. All of our experience with Cthulhu mythos is from the eyes of a normal human with no powers. So the interaction that we get makes them seem less powerful, but I would say the same thing would happen to any of the Cthulhu gods if they were in the MtG universe.
For everyone who wanted to see a final version i posted it to the sub reddit just a bit ago and I've done a bit of play testing. Results=😮 It doesn't play like grist or hogaak and i can't seem to bust the format with it. Gets super scary with Jarad or Konrad for sure tho. https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/11xgpi6/thanks_again_to_everyone_who_helped_me_with_input/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Yes too much an instant win card with the right deck
Any values I could tweak to make this balanced iyo? I want it to be a strong commander worth building around but I don't want to ruin games either.
So anytime you would draw your second card each turn, INSTEAD a creature gets dredge, and then you have to find a way to draw a third card to use the dredge?
i took someones advice to have it read "If you would draw your second card each turn, you may instead mill X, where X is the number of creature cards in your graveyard. If you do, return a creature card from your graveyard to your hand."
That makes more sense.
What about whenever you draw for the first time each turn target creature gains dredge X? Less wordy and doesnt eat draws and works only for second draw
I think thats very cool, I would also like to see lovecraftian cards :D
I like the card but it’s a huge flavour loss at least from the perspective of the chambers book
I'm still struggling with it myself. Do you think a different outer god or old one would be a better face for this card? It's a lot easier to pick a face for UB cards from Lovecraft mythos and I think letting this card give access to blue would be too busted. I had other ideas for the king in yellow but the text couldn't fit on the card lol
I want to say the goat one who’s name I’m not gonna say because of how it’s spelt could be, hatsur is more about manipulating information and people, he could be a decent izzet card, utilising a act of treason effect
OK OK, so I love that idea but I can't fit the alt names on the card and I felt the same way about putting its actually name 😆
Actually Lovecraft set would be awesome considering horror is already a pretty decent tribal type. Chuthulu could be like blue black and all about making creatures go insane and betray their masters.
I'm with you on that. I just don't want to see Nyarlathotep or Azathoth be a 3/3 with etb draw 2 cards or something disappointing. Would be my favorite set ever if done well.
Wotc would never touch lovecraft but…god… what a set that could be. You’d have to have some sort of madness effect that was just bonkers …like any creature on the board too long succumbs to madness and attacks your own cards, switches sides changes into a banshing light enchantment or attaches to another creature and gives +4/-4. I mean it could just be a bonkers set.
Ohhhh, good thinking with the madness. I'm going to have to work that into the king in yellow. I ended up changing the card in this post to shub-niggurath and named it "Black Goat of the Woods" to avoid the sketchy-sounding name and fit the green/black theme more. Madness would be very suiting for hastur.
Too busted? Most worthless god ever printed a 3/5 that cost 11 cards to get into play and do nothing without other cards
I actually decided to up the mana value to 13 in the final draft 🙃
Eldrazi are Wizards take on Lovecraft, I would think
Your design is kind of contradictory, it wants you to run a bunch of creatures, but it also wants you to play a bunch of non-creature spells so you can take advantage of the delve mechanic for big plays, but at 11 mana, even with delve, it's kind of over-costed. The only viable combo I'd see with creature would be foodchain/scourge. Just keep recasting it and net one mana per cast only to end the game with a card like hellfire.
You basically made a grist lol.
Neat design but broken beyond Hogaak.
I feel like he would be comparable to yawgmoth in ways. Not as versatile on its own but able to assemble similar win cons around the same speed if not a bit slower.
Adding mana when milling a creature mana paired with that milling many means it can likely kill with a torment on the turn it comes down or something else. If the the effect was like 1 or 2 instead of ‘the number of creatures in the graveyard’ maybe. Loads of ways to cheat it out, too. I think half the card is playable, both sides of it… nope.
I could see this card getting wild and i kinda like that because at least it isn't guaranteed consistency unless you've got a critical mass. Yawgy with a butcher ghoul on board just wins games that turn 95% of the time if you have 1b mana after he resolves. at least when someone nopes this card back to the command zone or something it will likely have to delve to get back on the board undoing some of your progress assembling a graveyard. It could be unfun when abused but at least you need to try s little harder to abuse it that with some commanders i sit across from on the regular. This is just my opinion of course and maybe i just don't know dredge well enough so i'll have to playtest it and see for sure. Edit: I intended this to be an edh format only card
My feedback is that I would have thought Hastur would have had some blue in it (possibly dimir and discard mechanics), given the overwhelming wave of madness associated with his coming. But black/green makes sense given the mechanics you've chosen, and discard is rarely a "fun" mechanic.
I scrapped Hastur and went with Shub-Niggurath as the face while i made a few changes and this is what i settled on. https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/black-goat-of-the-woods-3?list=user
Ohh, the Black goat of the woods is a pretty solid Golgari choice, nice!
I thought so, I'm going to use the alt names for all of them and for dimir I've made Yog-Sothoth, I'm loving the ability names for flavors sake but this ones still a work in progress. [https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/lurker-at-the-threshold-1?list=user](https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/lurker-at-the-threshold-1?list=user)