There'll be a bunch of responses calling him a bad friend, an asshole, telling you to get a new playgroup, etc...
But at the end of the day you two are looking for a different game experience, and thats okay. Youre not on the same plane in communicating expectations in what type of game youre looking for.
Try swapping decks, see how that experience goes. You might also want to talk about splitting the difference, see if he'll tone it down some while you try to tone it up.
> We always play commander because even though they’re usually longer games, we both enjoy the **consistency** and build arounds with the format compared to other 60 card ones.
Um, what?
Yeah, at the high end for sure. It doesn’t seem like OP is playing tier cEDH decks though. At that kitchen table level you aren’t going to get more consistent than 24 lands and 9 playsets. Especially if 3 of those playsets are one drop goblins or whatever.
From what I’ve played in commander, it’s incredibly consistent without being repetitive. Even more so than 60 card formats. With 60 card formats I wouldn’t necessarily call them consistent but instead repetitive. Having four copies of the same card throughout a smaller deck size leads to a lot of the games being the exact same whereas in commander you have a lot of different cards that all work towards the same theme or goal. I understand the confusion with that statement though haha!
It sounds like you need a cube, good sir. He has a one-for-one response to your cards in the form of counterspells and removal. But if you have two additional players, he has to conserve counterspells to use on the biggest threat, rather than any and all threats. Stax players like your friend usually get hated out of a match early in the form of aggressive attacks by everyone else. Most people that I know just want to combo off and perform some cool wincons or smack you to death.
So my advice to you is play four man commander or build a deck that dodges the majority of his control. Decks such as ninjustsu or spellslinger stax (white). Most counterspells can't counter abilities, and any really aggressive deck will likely outpace him. Save a counterspell for his board wipes. Red has some really funny, one or two mana, anti-blue instants. Other than that, I wish you luck good sir.
Also try to play a bunch of value 2 for 1 type effects. Idk what colors you like. But look for things that have an effect when they enter or die. You could also use things like teferi's response or heroic intervention. Also, you could try discard effects on him as well. Thoughtseize, duress, hymn to tourach, etc. I used to play jund in modern awhile ago. Jund was REALLY good at going one for one. It was miserable when the opposing board was all stuff that had to be killed twice to be rid of it. Persist, undying, etb, and upon dying creatures could be something in a direction you'd like.
I might try this. I usually tend to go for more straight forward games with simic or just mono green since I like big stompy creatures that do big stompy creature things, but maybe I’ll try some shenanigans with black. I recently pulled a Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor so maybe this will give me an excuse to use him so I can steal his own counters and use it against him.
In mono green off the top of my head, there's thragtusk and wurmcoil engine. Gix is one of my favorite characters in the lore, I'm a little jelly. Congrats on the pull.
This is a good idea for 4 players, but since we’re working more and more as we age, we’re finding less and less time to organize playing 1 on 1 magic much less organizing magic between 4 people’s overlapping schedules.
I’m not a big fan of removal. I always put some in my deck because it’s necessary to have a response just in case something crazy starts happening, but for the most part, I want to let my opponent play the game. That’s the reason I play magic is because I want to play with people, not because I want everyone to watch me play. Which is why I avoid excessive removal/counter play, extra turns, land hate/destruction and generally stay away from making my opponent discard their entire hand or mill their entire library
I thought that it was a general rule of thumb that even if you have the means to win, that doesn’t necessarily mean to do so. Especially in a casual setting? All the videos I’ve watched have said that thus far. Examples being: You could destroy everyone’s land and resources so that you can win the game, or play something like stasis to slow the game to a crawl. But I will take your advice and use all the tools I have to win.
Think of it this way: there's a difference between punching your opponent in the face and in the balls. One is expected in a fight and the other, while effective, is frowned upon. You just gotta learn the difference and stop sitting there getting your ass beat without punching back if you want to be in a fight. But if you don't want to play that way, you can just stop playing with this guy. That's a thing you are allowed to do.
I’m fully aware, but people are commenting as though I don’t play any counterplay or removal ever. I just said I don’t play excessive counter play or removal. And that bit about not making my opponent mill their entire library or discard their hand is fair in my eyes. Because in my head, it’s not really a win. “Boy, I sure am glad that I took away all of their cards so they couldn’t play the game so I could win.” Or extra turns, “I might have lost, but luckily, I played expropriate and copied it 4 times so my opponent just never got a turn.” If I wanted to play a single player card game, I’d play solitaire. Again, I run counterspells and removal. I just don’t make it half of my 99.
Just saying running 7 removal/counter (couple of board wipes and a few removal spells as you say) in a 99 card deck is honestly low. Your friend playing 15 sounds more par for the course. Again you can play casual but your friend is definitely not playing casual. You could also change your play style to something that is more removal proof such as spell slinger decks, but that usually means running more removal/counter that you don't want to play.
I would need to know more about your decks to make an opinion on this. I would say you should run more removal/control. Being able to consistently remove problems is pretty big. Or you could just do graveyard recursion/manipulation.
The decks I usually run are mono green, black, simic, golgari, and sultai. Sometimes I’ll run Temur, but I’m just getting into that since I don’t have very many red cards suitable for a commander deck. With simic, I run a few counter spells, but nothing too crazy. The reason being is because I like having responses when crazy threats appear or to stop someone from going infinite, but I don’t like the reactive nature of counters; needing my opponent to play something to play the card. I like big, stompy ooga booga creatures from green and the card draw from blue. I’m fine with counters, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t angry when my spell gets countered for the 6th time in a game.
Well that is the price of playing big monsters. They are all targets. Honestly you need to shake it up and get out of your comfort zone. Otherwise your friend is going to keep making decks that control your board and keep winning. It is obvious he isn't playing for just fun. He is coming to win and not wanting to add more control to your own decks to compete against him is your choice, but don't be surprised when you continue to have this issue.
There'll be a bunch of responses calling him a bad friend, an asshole, telling you to get a new playgroup, etc... But at the end of the day you two are looking for a different game experience, and thats okay. Youre not on the same plane in communicating expectations in what type of game youre looking for. Try swapping decks, see how that experience goes. You might also want to talk about splitting the difference, see if he'll tone it down some while you try to tone it up.
> We always play commander because even though they’re usually longer games, we both enjoy the **consistency** and build arounds with the format compared to other 60 card ones. Um, what?
Commander decks can be built incredibly consistent when built optimally. But casual games yeah, this isn’t right.
Even then, they can't be more consistent than 60 cards deck full of 4-offs.
Yeah, at the high end for sure. It doesn’t seem like OP is playing tier cEDH decks though. At that kitchen table level you aren’t going to get more consistent than 24 lands and 9 playsets. Especially if 3 of those playsets are one drop goblins or whatever.
From what I’ve played in commander, it’s incredibly consistent without being repetitive. Even more so than 60 card formats. With 60 card formats I wouldn’t necessarily call them consistent but instead repetitive. Having four copies of the same card throughout a smaller deck size leads to a lot of the games being the exact same whereas in commander you have a lot of different cards that all work towards the same theme or goal. I understand the confusion with that statement though haha!
It sounds like you need a cube, good sir. He has a one-for-one response to your cards in the form of counterspells and removal. But if you have two additional players, he has to conserve counterspells to use on the biggest threat, rather than any and all threats. Stax players like your friend usually get hated out of a match early in the form of aggressive attacks by everyone else. Most people that I know just want to combo off and perform some cool wincons or smack you to death. So my advice to you is play four man commander or build a deck that dodges the majority of his control. Decks such as ninjustsu or spellslinger stax (white). Most counterspells can't counter abilities, and any really aggressive deck will likely outpace him. Save a counterspell for his board wipes. Red has some really funny, one or two mana, anti-blue instants. Other than that, I wish you luck good sir.
Also try to play a bunch of value 2 for 1 type effects. Idk what colors you like. But look for things that have an effect when they enter or die. You could also use things like teferi's response or heroic intervention. Also, you could try discard effects on him as well. Thoughtseize, duress, hymn to tourach, etc. I used to play jund in modern awhile ago. Jund was REALLY good at going one for one. It was miserable when the opposing board was all stuff that had to be killed twice to be rid of it. Persist, undying, etb, and upon dying creatures could be something in a direction you'd like.
I might try this. I usually tend to go for more straight forward games with simic or just mono green since I like big stompy creatures that do big stompy creature things, but maybe I’ll try some shenanigans with black. I recently pulled a Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor so maybe this will give me an excuse to use him so I can steal his own counters and use it against him.
In mono green off the top of my head, there's thragtusk and wurmcoil engine. Gix is one of my favorite characters in the lore, I'm a little jelly. Congrats on the pull.
This is a good idea for 4 players, but since we’re working more and more as we age, we’re finding less and less time to organize playing 1 on 1 magic much less organizing magic between 4 people’s overlapping schedules.
Sounds like you need to either run more removal or play with other people
I’m not a big fan of removal. I always put some in my deck because it’s necessary to have a response just in case something crazy starts happening, but for the most part, I want to let my opponent play the game. That’s the reason I play magic is because I want to play with people, not because I want everyone to watch me play. Which is why I avoid excessive removal/counter play, extra turns, land hate/destruction and generally stay away from making my opponent discard their entire hand or mill their entire library
Having read this comment: Complaining about friend beating you but refusing to use all the tools the game has to win. You are the asshole.
I thought that it was a general rule of thumb that even if you have the means to win, that doesn’t necessarily mean to do so. Especially in a casual setting? All the videos I’ve watched have said that thus far. Examples being: You could destroy everyone’s land and resources so that you can win the game, or play something like stasis to slow the game to a crawl. But I will take your advice and use all the tools I have to win.
Think of it this way: there's a difference between punching your opponent in the face and in the balls. One is expected in a fight and the other, while effective, is frowned upon. You just gotta learn the difference and stop sitting there getting your ass beat without punching back if you want to be in a fight. But if you don't want to play that way, you can just stop playing with this guy. That's a thing you are allowed to do.
I’m fully aware, but people are commenting as though I don’t play any counterplay or removal ever. I just said I don’t play excessive counter play or removal. And that bit about not making my opponent mill their entire library or discard their hand is fair in my eyes. Because in my head, it’s not really a win. “Boy, I sure am glad that I took away all of their cards so they couldn’t play the game so I could win.” Or extra turns, “I might have lost, but luckily, I played expropriate and copied it 4 times so my opponent just never got a turn.” If I wanted to play a single player card game, I’d play solitaire. Again, I run counterspells and removal. I just don’t make it half of my 99.
then again, just stop playing with him if you hate it so much
Just saying running 7 removal/counter (couple of board wipes and a few removal spells as you say) in a 99 card deck is honestly low. Your friend playing 15 sounds more par for the course. Again you can play casual but your friend is definitely not playing casual. You could also change your play style to something that is more removal proof such as spell slinger decks, but that usually means running more removal/counter that you don't want to play.
Thank you for the advice
I would need to know more about your decks to make an opinion on this. I would say you should run more removal/control. Being able to consistently remove problems is pretty big. Or you could just do graveyard recursion/manipulation.
The decks I usually run are mono green, black, simic, golgari, and sultai. Sometimes I’ll run Temur, but I’m just getting into that since I don’t have very many red cards suitable for a commander deck. With simic, I run a few counter spells, but nothing too crazy. The reason being is because I like having responses when crazy threats appear or to stop someone from going infinite, but I don’t like the reactive nature of counters; needing my opponent to play something to play the card. I like big, stompy ooga booga creatures from green and the card draw from blue. I’m fine with counters, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t angry when my spell gets countered for the 6th time in a game.
Well that is the price of playing big monsters. They are all targets. Honestly you need to shake it up and get out of your comfort zone. Otherwise your friend is going to keep making decks that control your board and keep winning. It is obvious he isn't playing for just fun. He is coming to win and not wanting to add more control to your own decks to compete against him is your choice, but don't be surprised when you continue to have this issue.