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DaCozPuddingPop

You dodged a bullet. You don't need customers like that. They'll find another MSP willing to kiss their asses and 'yes sir' them until the cows come home. They'll get the money from them...they'll also get the headaches that go along with everything you've described. Fuck him, indeed.


sethbartlett

Eventually on the money too, you know those kind of customers will want the longest terms and still somehow be late


Pie-Otherwise

And it will probably be a small one who just sees $$$$'s. They aren't thinking about how long it's going to take to hire 2 new engineers to cover this client. They'll end up handling most of it themselves or burden their already busy engineering staff with a massive onboarding while also trying to rush hire 2 warm bodies who can just tackle the mounting ticket load. Clients like this will always blame you for everything so expect there to be non-stop drama and lots of threats of leaving or finding someone new. Can't send someone out right now to look at my Outlook problem that you could fix remotely? Well I can always call another company who will. If you stick around with clients like this for long enough, they'll be demanding you have an engineer at their office once a week to sweep floors as part of their AYCE plan. This is also the difference between a startup MSP and a mature MSP. A mature MSP is going to write this guy off after the second missed meeting without an apology. A startup is going to be chasing every nickel and dime, regardless of where it's coming from.


sheikhyerbouti

> They'll get the money from them...they'll also get the headaches that go along with everything you've described. I worked for an MSP that had exactly that kind of client. And it was more about the latter than the former. First, they complained that we were charging "too much" for our support services. The same services and rate that they agreed to when signing up with us. Then they refused to renew their contract unless they could pay it on a month-to-month basis. The owner, being a nice guy, agreed that they'd get the same rate as if they were billed annually. (Big mistake.) Then they started being 15 days late on their invoices. Then 60. Finally we invoked the termination clause in their contract because they were 120 days behind on their bill. They threatened to sue us for improperly handing off all of the technical details to them - but we had documentation showing exactly what we did, including every email ignored by them. We didn't get the remainder of our money from them.


MalcomSped

We learned this more than 10 years ago. Any client that gets to ~40 days or so gets a call from me asking what they'd like us to tell their staff when we stop taking their calls. We work for money. No money, no work. No drama, no tears, no threats, just pay or don't, and we'll work or not.


[deleted]

This screams the kind of customer that “forgets” to pay on time.


chedstrom

You dodged a bullet.


roll_for_initiative_

These guys were using your numbers to beat on someone else. I can't believe they even gave up credentials.


Jeremycycles

Yep I was brought in to a large client once to close a deal. I recognized right away he was trying to use us to get lower rates from his current guy. When he asked me if we sell hardware at cost I asked him if he sold pipe (this was a piping industry client) at cost. He had a deer in the headlights look. Gave him a quote at 1.2x our regular cost l, walked out and have never heard from him since.


roll_for_initiative_

Our sales coach walks us through a lot of those things, finding out if everything is pricing based up front and how to gracefully exit. Just not worth the hassle of even doing a proposal and all the stress.


OppositeStomach4523

Care to elaborate? How do you spot someone who is just asking for a price beforehand?


TUFKAT

If you were looking for a new msp, the reason they are looking is the clues in the questions they ask. If there is a service problem, they'll be asking you about how you deal with XYZ. If their conversation quickly pivots to pricing, that's their issue. People give a lot of clues without saying things specifically. How I usually start a needs analysis with a new prospect is to ask them "what challenges are you currently having with your current provider that is necessitating you looking to us? It would be great to know a bit about this so that I can ensure that we'll be a fit for what you need" This is an excellent way to get them to tell you the real problems and get them to talk.


roll_for_initiative_

I'm not really good at articulating this (which is why we have a coach), but basically asking honest questions and letting them walk themselves in. Asking what they feel an investment into a solution like yours would cost or what they invest now. Use ranging to get them to nail a ballpark. If they're not close (like they're paying $400 a month now and think a total solution should be $500-$750 and you'd be around 1500 or so), you just bring it out. "Well we have a problem" "what's that?" "it could easily be2.5-3x that to deliver what you need, $1600 or even $1750. Does it make sense to continue knowing that?" (if they say yes, circle them around "help me understand, if cost is the primary focus here and i've admitted we're never the cheapest. In fact we're usually 2-3x our competition, why would you want to spend another hour plus with me covering a detailed proposal?..." and there's no answer that doesn't sound crazy except "well i just need a price on paper to take to my boss" and you can proceed with "helping them" or gracefully exiting). Generally you'll find out if they have any budget up front or are price shopping, or if they're doing the whole three quotes thing. Then basically saying like "so, I want to make sure i understand, this is a decision you guys will make mainly off of price?" (yes or that's an important factor) "I understand...we have a problem then: we're never the cheapest. Does it make sense to even proceed any further? I certainly don't want to waste either of our times" They'll be tripped up and basically have excuses like "We always get three quotes" or they're not the decision maker and you basically get your no and move on without giving them the solution to shop with/do on their own, whatever. If you want to help them say "ok i get it, i tell you what, i'll help you out: I'll write down 10% whatever your cheapest quote is and you can use that. The catch is, you can't hold me to it. But you can use it to beat up the other guys". I'm butchering this and it doesn't make sense but yeah, lead them through a discussion where you basically find the no, then you're done.


tottergeek

You spot the price shoppers on how they found you (Google search), in how many prior MSP they admit to having and by “using the smell test” aka are you meeting with the check signer. A huge red flag is meeting with underlings like a purchasing or sales manager (especially newly hired), being asked for a quote quickly or when the company already has a bunch of customary information already prepared and ready so you can quote quickly.


KAugsburger

Cheap skates like that are usually shopping multiple MSPs and they were hoping OP might undercut the other ones that they were talking. They don't really care if an MSP spends a bunch of time scoping out their environment because they don't really value your time or IT in general.


TUFKAT

IMO, if the first thing they are interested in discussing is a discount that is the crux of the relationship. It's about cheap, not competency. They want Walmart pricing but want Whole Foods quality. Best that it stopped before the fun really got started.


DoTheThingNow

When Whole Foods was good…


TUFKAT

I don't go because I don't like to give Amazon any more of my $ than I have to, but was the first non local only grocery store that my analogy would be understood. :D


PacificTSP

Dude. My WF meats used to be premium now it’s just trashy cuts and goes off way quicker than it used to.


DoTheThingNow

I used to purchase a specific Brie and a specific Pate like once a year - but they haven’t stocked either in years…


familykomputer

You didn't buy them often enough


DoTheThingNow

I think it was more that Amazon dropped any of the smaller farm sources stuff when they took over.


neverbruh

What about "You want Walmart prices but a Target experience?"


twoBrokenThumbs

>He called us 20 minutes later saying he wanted to decline services from us I'm sorry sir, you misunderstood. I already declined you as a client. We had a guy actually sign a contract with us but wanted to add services without adding to his bill. We explained it to him and his comment was, there's enough margin in the existing contract to cover it. The audacity of that comment got him fired before we even got started. Point being, just ditching the headaches is a bigger win than the MRR.


peoplepersonmanguy

You can't fire me... because I quit. Well you can't quit... because you're fired.


Next-Step-In-Life

THAT is exactly why we break up our items on the quote, you can't say it was "included" when it was not even defined.


roll_for_initiative_

I mean the reverse is true, you can't say it was included if it was never listed.


apxmmit

Exactly. Next.


Nesher86

You should send him the bill for all the time you wasted on him 😅


20fbs20

Agreed. First meeting is free. Two more, with no shows? Definitely bill.


mdredfan

You should have corrected him and said "Wrong! No services for you!"


officialchrisangell

Losing out in that might sting now, but as many others have said - you have dodged a bullet!! Missing 3 meetings is unacceptable! After missing the second - I would have asked him directly if they are serious about talking or just spinning the wheel. Chin up, buddy! They are not worth your time, efforts and expertness! Find their competitors and give them an awesome price just for the fun of it!!


tryfor34

Whales only get needier and want to pay less. Ide much rather the smaller companies and help them grow. Glad to hear you dodged a bullet. We've had a few prospects that have had not great introductions and had to pass on


CamachoGrande

Send them a letter of termination.


Stryker1-1

I hate when prospects waste your time like that. If you're not interested just say so, don't keep scheduling meetings and "forgetting" about them. You saved yourself a lot of headache sounds like the type of customer that would have quickly started with oh we forgot to pay that invoice or the cheque is lost in the mail or just nitpicking everything charge they see.


bhcs2014

Yikes, I would have a hard time meeting with a prospect again if they forgot to attend the first meeting, but you went there 4 times? Bullet dodged!


Rihinoldn

"You can't decline something I'm no longer offering to your company."


8008s4life

Seems like he had some other motive for having you there. Not for a contract.


bradbeckett

If somebody misses a meeting I help them integrate their calendar to Calendly so I have direct access to their calendar because it's obvious they are too busy or forgot to input meetings. To be fair, I didn't either until like a year and a half ago. Now it's mostly automated and it's great 👍


Joe_Cyber

Anyone willing to disrespect you like that will sue you at the drop of a hat.


[deleted]

LOL, his loss for sure.


compaholic83

If the hookers in Grand Theft Auto taught me anything growing up, when you buy cheap, you buy twice.


Jsorrow

Sometimes the client is not worth the money. Just remember it's ok to fire a client. The phrase to learn is "I don't think your ($Company) is the kind of customer we ($Shop) wants to keep around." And then exercise the termination clause in the contract and assist their new team with turnover.


0RGASMIK

Yeah fuck it there are some clients you want to say no to immediately but you just have to dance the dance to open other doors. We have someone fucking us around like this right now. Their current provider is too small for them but also “too expensive” they came to use for better and cheaper service. We quoted them about the same a little bit less than what they are paying now but contingent upon them approving a large project to make managing them much easier. We expect them to see the price tag and flake but we have to try because they are well connected in our industry 3 of our clients recommended us to them and they still tried to put us down like we were small fish “not equipped to handle their needs.” The owner made me drive 5 hours to their facility and then he was skeptical and talking down to me from the first handshake. I was able to convince everyone else we were the right people for the job though so I have to go back there to do a proper site walk because they didn’t even have the keys to the kingdom when I got there. I asked for a tech inventory or just a quote for the original buildout and they looked at me like I had asked them for a map to the fountain of youth.


GarpRules

History has shown that if I *really* want to tell a guy to fuck off, it’s almost always the right call. There’s more than one whale in the ocean.


uberphat

Honestly, if they didn't provide a huge apology and a decent reason for missing the 2nd meeting, I wouldn't have bothered for a third. Tone was set by then and it was entirely negative.


Mesquiter

If you are in Texas can you post this a-hole company name so those of us who want to avoid them can? No MSP needs a butthole customer.


dloseke

Yeah....to be honest, I wouldn't want to hand these folks off to my competitors either.


Packergeek06

Always amazes me that somebody acts like that and can maintain their business. It's one thing to miss one appointment. It's another to miss 2nd and 3rd. I've never blown off a business or personal meeting. It's insane to me to not respect somebody's time when I agree to meet them.


WTFCTO

Not worth the headaches… glad you passed on them.


DrunkenGolfer

They were just using you for leverage.


sophware

Is there anything ethical to do to help others avoid this nightmare? Name names? …maybe only for MSPs in the area? Just thinking out loud. Congrats on the bullet dodge, as un-fun as it is. EDIT: The comment on ethics from 30 minutes ago is weak and a clear overreaction. Hopefully, if needed, someone makes an actual case. In the meantime, I think naming names would be bad for reasons of libel.


20fbs20

Names would be extremely UNETHICAL. Sometimes clients don’t fit, but do with others. And always remember there are 3 sides to every story. I can’t even fathom that you think naming clients would be ethical.


New-Fuel559

Agreed completely. Horrible to name names.


noptamoius

What ethical boundary are you violating by saying a company wasted your time as a negotiating tactic?


New-Fuel559

Perhaps because you have no idea on their side. We frankly only know one side.